Wow. First thanks for showing how to get power to other sides of layout. Second, those are some powerful looking bad boys - particularly the Southern Pacific !!
Very interesting. I did my track in the Bus approach with suitcase connectors. I find I still have dead zones. all my wires were soldered to FT. IT's not bad per say. More just annoying. You have an amazing layout!!!! your children are very fortunate.
I am working on my first room size O gauge layout and your track powering guide is awesome. I have chosen to use WAGO clips instead of terminals for both common ground wiring for track power as well as a separate under the table common ground wiring for accessories. I am looking for the correct fastener to secure my Fastrack on 2 inch extruded foam and half inch plywood. Do you have any recommendations? Thank you.
Very cool video! I thought about fast track for my layout, but unfortunately I think my Pre-war stuff would jump the switches due to wheel flange height. All my stuff is the old-school high rail (ballasted). Hope all is well.
Excuse me but, may I point out that the Fastrack already has tabs for spade lugs, the small width type, and even a wiring chase built into the underside of the roadbase. It seems to me that you can run your heavier gauge wire right under the track and can simply tap-splice the feeder wires for each section with prefabbed jumpers (unless you really enjoy soldering).
@@CDLionelTrains I only point it out as I.) I am considering the best possible method of wiring my track. 2.) I have never seen such excellent control and response with these trains as I did in your video. 3.) I have broken the center rail pins that help join the sections electrically and I am sure the others can break as well. 4.) While I have always known others to solder every joint on two rail layouts, it's not something I want to do using Fastrack 5.) Each track section, no matter the length, has the tabs for attaching wire and as such, each track section, turnout, or otherwise can essentially be wired with a drop from the main bus line. With the proper gauge stranded wire, if the track were stretched out in a single line starting from the power source, there would be a very little actual drop in voltage due to the benefits associated with the transmission of AC current over long distances (an issue with DC. Hence, the Nicola Tesla/Thomas Edison debate so long ago. They both were right and basically it is a hybrid system today.) Lastly, I am starting with DCC++EX for both my O gauge and G gauge and I don't want any limitations in the future especially when manufacturers are developing such high quality and relatively low-cost Locomotives and equipment. I shouldn't have to pay as much to operate the trains as it did to collect them. A fact that Marklin needs to understand, lol! (Yes, there's more to that story but I will leave it here.) Happy Railroading, ~Mary P.S. - Most of my experience, since I was 4 years old, has been in Live Steam, 1.5" and 2.5" scale, 7.5" gauge track. So a bit of a learning curve for me, nonetheless.
One thing you need to understand with o Guage is the way the track moves when the trains run over it. This creates an ever changing connection between the tracks and the electrical connections. This is where we get into trouble both with the legacy signal and the electrical circuit. So making connections as redundant and secure as possible gives you the best shot of flawless performance.
I bought 4 terminal tracks before I figured out that there are mini spade terminals under the track. lmao. As a rule of thumb I ALWAY coat my spade connecters with dielectric compound before I make the connection, and I put a light coat of NO-OX-ID on top of the track. Makes a world of difference in conductivity.
Dear Mr im2yys4u81, Have you done any videos that might talk about this issue using these products you mentioned to Mr CDLionelTrains? I've never heard of these items can I find them at Home Depot or Lowe's? Thank you for your time Sincerely Allan P.S. I've been giving my phone number out because it's easier for me to explain my situation. I will understand if nobody can help me by phone I just explain it better.
@@CDLionelTrains thanks for your feedback. one santa fe lion western telegraph engine and tender, maybe one or two other powered cars. Total cars maybe 3 to 6 or so. Just a simple set around the ceiling really..
I assume the command system you are using is Lionel Legacy. Running the common (U) black wire under your track will have no positive impact on your Legacy signal. The Legacy signal uses a combination of the outside rail contact through the wheels of your locomotive, and your house ground wiring, which is where the antenna in the engine gets the other half of the signal from. If you are having issues wih the Legacy signal in spots, you would be better off running a ground wire from a house outlet under or above the track to improve the strength.
I\'m not sure but ,if anyone else wants to discover how to build a model railroad layout try Megarno Railroad Membership Magician (should be on google have a look ) ? Ive heard some interesting things about it and my friend got amazing results with it.
If there is not enough voltage on the track can it damage a Lionel legacy engine? I have fast track and I don’t have it wired. When the train gets to the furthest part of the layout it slows down.
You can't damage the engine with low voltage. It just won't run. There is loss of power atthr fat ends of the track due to resistance and inefficient transfer of electricity. This is normal. To overcome this,you need to run power to the other side of the track. Using a bus line,like described in this video, is a way to run power and keep the legacy signal running close to the engine at all times.
Would signal drop off explain a dip in speed? I have a small around the tree layout where all engines experience a gain/loss in speed depending if they are close or far from the terminal track.
Yes, you could see this effect maximized if you run allow speeds. The train will just stop. When you are running at higher speeds, the momentum will take the train past the dead spot.
Your issue is not the signal, its the method in which you are laying the track. The weight of the trains is fatiguing the connection because it has no support. You need to be able to secure the track to a foundation and the foam is not a good idea (for O scale). Each time you go into the fast track to fix one section the connections get weaker in the other section. The problems seems to come from no where after you fix a section. You will have a never ending battle. Fast track is convenient but it gives birth to a lot of gremlins if you don't lay it right. You can get away with using foam on N and HO but O and above it gets dicey. Those weird sorts could be from the phase of your power supplies (if you have more than 1).
Interesting idea. I have considered this issue and have secured the foam to the underlying wood. Also, there are long sections where the track is secured directly to the wood without any foam. Loss of signal had been persistent in all such settings. I agree that fatigue of the joints and connectors is possible, but the foam does have a high stiffness, especially when secured.
Look at the pin on the fast track and you will see it has both vertical and lateral play. This is the root cause. Most Fast track is good for three connecting cycles after that the pins are pretty much done. The foam seems stiff but in all actuality its not. There is a lot of movement in the foam as well as the expansion in the wood. This is creating issues. Humidity will cause the wood to expand causing seasonal problems. You really don't need the 12 awg wire. 18 is fine as long as your track is laid right. If the geometry is right the power requirements will be minimal. I built a layout for a guy that was 165' with 13 switches and it ran with 1 feeder. That's how i test my layouts. Afterwards I will add feeders in the low spots and its done. Using TMCC Lock on is the key as it will help you to manage the power allocation. Most of the time the problem will be in the track. Next time the engine stops, leave it there and take a screw driver and loosen or tighten the nearest screw in the track and watch what happens.
I have Atlas Section O-Scale and underneath this I use the Woodland scenics black foam ballast then I secure it all down on 3/4 painted plywood. Not hard;y any give. I tried foam in the past but I was just happy with it.
Nice video. If I may, try not to slam the solder tip into the cleaning station. The tip can break very easy. Also for better results try not to use the needle nose pliers, they act as a giant heat sink. Otherwise, really informative video.
First, you have to buy all those connectors, so there is a cost factor, especially with hundreds of connections. 2nd, it actually becomes easier to solder the more you do it. And third, the connections with solder are just better. Less chance of a failure of them falling off, and better conductivity overall, especially over longer distances.
@@CDLionelTrains The connectors are 5 bucks a hundred. I saw Lionel does this also. But how to you do a layout like yours with 100% soldered connections? A small section you can solder then flip over. I run a 17x11 around the room and at this point it has no bus wires, no feeders, no connector wires, and I have nearly no problems. I plan on running a bus and feeders later today.
@@j.johnson7962 Its great if you can get it to work. The issues I have seen are with voltage loss and signal loss, especially with multiple levels on top of each other.
@@CDLionelTrains I got my sidings done and made 2 isolated sections in my mainline today. Wired them with crimp connectors and plugging them to the track. Wasn't bad. My problem was I had to notch every ridge in the track to run wires. Some of the track I have was pre notched .. most of it was not. After seeing you and Lionel doing the soldering thing, I figured it wasn't too much work to do these sections that way. Thanks for the information and the great video! I take it you have your layout broken up into blocks with feeders going to sections of soldered track.
My volume is on full blast and you might evise this with a closer microphone or speak up. Either ay I would like to hear it without the frustration of straining to hear it so until then I'm out of here and no thumbs up or down.
Needs to be soldered or else years of frustration. Good point on the other track systems. Gargraves may be the best way to go, but each track has its issues.
Looks like i will hire an electrician. Thanks for the video post.
Wow. First thanks for showing how to get power to other sides of layout. Second, those are some powerful looking bad boys - particularly the Southern Pacific !!
IT'S GREAT!! CONGRATULATIONS FROM MONTEVIDEO URUGUAY, SOUTH AMÉRICA!!
Good call on increasing the guage wire size, making it bigger, that makes a difference in low voltage applications.
Very interesting. I did my track in the Bus approach with suitcase connectors. I find I still have dead zones. all my wires were soldered to FT. IT's not bad per say. More just annoying. You have an amazing layout!!!! your children are very fortunate.
Why couldn't you use fast track terminal track with the wall plug in and space them out the same way?
Great video, very helpful! But for future ones please use a tripod!. I was getting seasick with all the camera shaking!
Sorry about that
Extremely informative video, appreciate the time and effort to help others.
Glad it was helpful!
An alternative way of running the wire under the layout is to buy a bag of 3M cable tie mounts.
I am working on my first room size O gauge layout and your track powering guide is awesome. I have chosen to use WAGO clips instead of terminals for both common ground wiring for track power as well as a separate under the table common ground wiring for accessories. I am looking for the correct fastener to secure my Fastrack on 2 inch extruded foam and half inch plywood. Do you have any recommendations? Thank you.
I actually use 2 inch screws and washes to screw down the edges of the FastTrack into the foam. Then cover with scenery.
@@CDLionelTrains Thanks
WAGOs are the bomb. I use them on pretty much anything electrical.
Very cool video! I thought about fast track for my layout, but unfortunately I think my Pre-war stuff would jump the switches due to wheel flange height. All my stuff is the old-school high rail (ballasted). Hope all is well.
What height level is your layout, and what is the distance between levels? What is the layout size?
Excuse me but, may I point out that the Fastrack already has tabs for spade lugs, the small width type, and even a wiring chase built into the underside of the roadbase. It seems to me that you can run your heavier gauge wire right under the track and can simply tap-splice the feeder wires for each section with prefabbed jumpers (unless you really enjoy soldering).
You are correct.
@@CDLionelTrains I only point it out as I.) I am considering the best possible method of wiring my track. 2.) I have never seen such excellent control and response with these trains as I did in your video. 3.) I have broken the center rail pins that help join the sections electrically and I am sure the others can break as well. 4.) While I have always known others to solder every joint on two rail layouts, it's not something I want to do using Fastrack 5.) Each track section, no matter the length, has the tabs for attaching wire and as such, each track section, turnout, or otherwise can essentially be wired with a drop from the main bus line. With the proper gauge stranded wire, if the track were stretched out in a single line starting from the power source, there would be a very little actual drop in voltage due to the benefits associated with the transmission of AC current over long distances (an issue with DC. Hence, the Nicola Tesla/Thomas Edison debate so long ago. They both were right and basically it is a hybrid system today.) Lastly, I am starting with DCC++EX for both my O gauge and G gauge and I don't want any limitations in the future especially when manufacturers are developing such high quality and relatively low-cost Locomotives and equipment. I shouldn't have to pay as much to operate the trains as it did to collect them. A fact that Marklin needs to understand, lol! (Yes, there's more to that story but I will leave it here.)
Happy Railroading,
~Mary
P.S. - Most of my experience, since I was 4 years old, has been in Live Steam, 1.5" and 2.5" scale, 7.5" gauge track. So a bit of a learning curve for me, nonetheless.
One thing you need to understand with o Guage is the way the track moves when the trains run over it. This creates an ever changing connection between the tracks and the electrical connections. This is where we get into trouble both with the legacy signal and the electrical circuit. So making connections as redundant and secure as possible gives you the best shot of flawless performance.
I bought 4 terminal tracks before I figured out that there are mini spade terminals under the track. lmao. As a rule of thumb I ALWAY coat my spade connecters with dielectric compound before I make the connection, and I put a light coat of NO-OX-ID on top of the track. Makes a world of difference in conductivity.
Dear Mr im2yys4u81,
Have you done any videos that might talk about this issue using these products you mentioned to Mr CDLionelTrains? I've never heard of these items can I find them at Home Depot or Lowe's?
Thank you for your time Sincerely Allan
P.S. I've been giving my phone number out because it's easier for me to explain my situation. I will understand if nobody can help me by phone I just explain it better.
This was pretty helpful but I'm confused on a few areas. What about the actual power supply? Do you have several separate or one big one?
Have a ZW transformer and a 180w brick.
@@CDLionelTrains if I'm doing a basic layout hanging a train around home pub ceiling about 14 x 16 would I need those?
Probably just a 180w brick.
You could try an 80w transformer but would depend on the number of trains and powered cars you run.
@@CDLionelTrains thanks for your feedback. one santa fe lion western telegraph engine and tender, maybe one or two other powered cars. Total cars maybe 3 to 6 or so. Just a simple set around the ceiling really..
I like your mountain backdrop
It is amazing. They are not Cheap!!
I assume the command system you are using is Lionel Legacy. Running the common (U) black wire under your track will have no positive impact on your Legacy signal. The Legacy signal uses a combination of the outside rail contact through the wheels of your locomotive, and your house ground wiring, which is where the antenna in the engine gets the other half of the signal from. If you are having issues wih the Legacy signal in spots, you would be better off running a ground wire from a house outlet under or above the track to improve the strength.
I\'m not sure but ,if anyone else wants to discover how to build a model railroad layout try Megarno Railroad Membership Magician (should be on google have a look ) ? Ive heard some interesting things about it and my friend got amazing results with it.
What it looks like to me is that we are using the wrong track and find something that is much better track
It looks like a thicker gauge busline does the trick!
If there is not enough voltage on the track can it damage a Lionel legacy engine? I have fast track and I don’t have it wired. When the train gets to the furthest part of the layout it slows down.
You can't damage the engine with low voltage. It just won't run.
There is loss of power atthr fat ends of the track due to resistance and inefficient transfer of electricity. This is normal. To overcome this,you need to run power to the other side of the track. Using a bus line,like described in this video, is a way to run power and keep the legacy signal running close to the engine at all times.
@@CDLionelTrains thank you.
Very cool!
Would signal drop off explain a dip in speed? I have a small around the tree layout where all engines experience a gain/loss in speed depending if they are close or far from the terminal track.
Yes, you could see this effect maximized if you run allow speeds. The train will just stop. When you are running at higher speeds, the momentum will take the train past the dead spot.
@@CDLionelTrains thank you!
Your issue is not the signal, its the method in which you are laying the track. The weight of the trains is fatiguing the connection because it has no support. You need to be able to secure the track to a foundation and the foam is not a good idea (for O scale). Each time you go into the fast track to fix one section the connections get weaker in the other section. The problems seems to come from no where after you fix a section. You will have a never ending battle. Fast track is convenient but it gives birth to a lot of gremlins if you don't lay it right. You can get away with using foam on N and HO but O and above it gets dicey.
Those weird sorts could be from the phase of your power supplies (if you have more than 1).
Interesting idea. I have considered this issue and have secured the foam to the underlying wood. Also, there are long sections where the track is secured directly to the wood without any foam. Loss of signal had been persistent in all such settings. I agree that fatigue of the joints and connectors is possible, but the foam does have a high stiffness, especially when secured.
Look at the pin on the fast track and you will see it has both vertical and lateral play. This is the root cause. Most Fast track is good for three connecting cycles after that the pins are pretty much done.
The foam seems stiff but in all actuality its not. There is a lot of movement in the foam as well as the expansion in the wood. This is creating issues. Humidity will cause the
wood to expand causing seasonal problems.
You really don't need the 12 awg wire. 18 is fine as long as your track is laid right. If the geometry is right the power requirements will be minimal.
I built a layout for a guy that was 165' with 13 switches and it ran with 1 feeder. That's how i test my layouts. Afterwards I will add feeders in the low spots and its done.
Using TMCC Lock on is the key as it will help you to manage the power allocation.
Most of the time the problem will be in the track. Next time the engine stops, leave it there and take a screw driver and loosen or tighten the nearest screw in the track and watch what happens.
I have Atlas Section O-Scale and underneath this I use the Woodland scenics black foam ballast then I secure it all down on 3/4 painted plywood. Not hard;y any give. I tried foam in the past but I was just happy with it.
At 15:00 how are you making that bend in that track this is the set of track I used to have
Nice video. If I may, try not to slam the solder tip into the cleaning station. The tip can break very easy. Also for better results try not to use the needle nose pliers, they act as a giant heat sink. Otherwise, really informative video.
Do you use O60 for your 21” passenger car.
Yes
@@CDLionelTrains Can you run Williams #20432 NS Heritage Series GE Dash 9 Scale Diesel w/Sound - Lehigh Valley #8104
this on Lionel fast track
Great video
What I do is I got 2 Lionel models trains set that separates they have there own controls there own switchs I do not have any problems
Why would you solder wires to the track when you could have just used crimp adn then slip on connectors to the spades on the bottom of the track?
First, you have to buy all those connectors, so there is a cost factor, especially with hundreds of connections.
2nd, it actually becomes easier to solder the more you do it.
And third, the connections with solder are just better. Less chance of a failure of them falling off, and better conductivity overall, especially over longer distances.
@@CDLionelTrains The connectors are 5 bucks a hundred. I saw Lionel does this also. But how to you do a layout like yours with 100% soldered connections? A small section you can solder then flip over. I run a 17x11 around the room and at this point it has no bus wires, no feeders, no connector wires, and I have nearly no problems. I plan on running a bus and feeders later today.
@@j.johnson7962
Its great if you can get it to work. The issues I have seen are with voltage loss and signal loss, especially with multiple levels on top of each other.
@@CDLionelTrains I got my sidings done and made 2 isolated sections in my mainline today. Wired them with crimp connectors and plugging them to the track. Wasn't bad. My problem was I had to notch every ridge in the track to run wires. Some of the track I have was pre notched .. most of it was not. After seeing you and Lionel doing the soldering thing, I figured it wasn't too much work to do these sections that way. Thanks for the information and the great video! I take it you have your layout broken up into blocks with feeders going to sections of soldered track.
I plugged all the tracks together doing the same as you did by soldering. I think either way is good! May try some soldering on other sections.
Good video
Nice engine
My volume is on full blast and you might evise this with a closer microphone or speak up. Either ay I would like to hear it without the frustration of straining to hear it so until then I'm out of here and no thumbs up or down.
It look like u cut the train off your seft
After paying a lot of $$$ for Fast Track who would want to solder it? Just buy MTH or Atlas track which are much more reliable!
Needs to be soldered or else years of frustration.
Good point on the other track systems. Gargraves may be the best way to go, but each track has its issues.
What a royal pain in the butt. You have to solder every connection? I don’t know about this.
AUDIO IS TOO LOW
Can’t see what your doing dude.
Auido is not good
Agreed
Just watched your video. awesome I’m new to all this. Is there anyway you can contact me so I can talk to you about a few things thanks, JB.
nees a trypod