Worth mentioning: you showed one page from "Brought to Light," the graphic novel that had one 32-page story by Moore and Sienkiewicz that they did manage to complete. And it is indeed a masterpiece: it's a blistering political satire that tells the story of the CIA's involvement in Central America during the Cold War. Moore uses devastating black comedy to make the story terrifying, and he is matched by Sienkiewicz' artwork that makes the entire story a surreal nightmare. This may be why the story begins and ends with "This is not a dream."
I once had the brief opportunity to ask Moore about this, but he wasn't interested in talking about it, just saying that he harbored no ill will for anyone involved.
@@Aaron-zt5ee I also should have clarified those weren't his own choice of words, just my clumsy attempt to paraphrase a brief, hazily remembered conversation from the early '90s.
i really wanted Ashley Wood to take over the series. His style is similar to Sienkiewicz and proved he could hit a deadline too. oh what could have been.
Such a shame that this potential masterpiece never got completed. There's a lot to love in those first two issues. Just like you said, it could have been a revolutionary work of art. 😢
Ultimately, Tundra turned into a money pit. Which is still something that baffles me to this day. Possibly, the $9,200 they gave him was a small amount to Eastman? Maybe they took that loss as a learning lesson? I don't know.
Would be very interesting to see Big Numbers completed in the modern day seeing as we're now 30+ years out from the economic and cultural time period that it's story is critiquing and is built around.
I genuinely wish that they finished this. This could have been a nail in the coffin for ideas on comics not being old enough. A grounded, novel esque tale of chaos and order through the lens of ordinary people.
An excellent overview of a never-completed classic. I remember getting these off the stands, then waiting, waiting…. Well Gaiman and Bucky’s MIRACLEMAN finally came back, so who knows? ⚪️🖖♾
I bought the two Mad Love issues in real time. It was such a disappointment to have it evaporate.Thanks for sharing this story of two of my favorite creators. Sienkiewicz is the nicest guy in comics.
I like the premise and wish they had finished. I remember reading a novel that took place in Virginia and it centered around a Civil War cemitary and a man trying to buy it to build a mall and housing developments on it
I spoke to a friend who was a student/disciple of Sienkiewicz, and who has been a comics artist with a similar style. I knew my friend had some connection to the project. Sienkiewicz approached my friend about possibly stepping in for future issues, and showed him Moore's scripts. Apparently the script for a 40 page comic was 400 pages long! My friend felt he couldn't work under those constraints, and didn't have the skill needed to do the job required. My guess is that coming off Watchmen, Moore was used to generating these monster scripts. (Entirely a supposition on my part.) I've gotten the impression that he now works with the artists more to not be so overriding. But again, I'm an outsider hearing rumors on Moore's process.
I agree! On a bad day, Moore and Sienkiewicz would still be an amazing thing to read. Don't be too in awe of my knowledge. It's backed up with a fair amount of research. :)
I had issue one back in the day. Now and then I try to search up a transcript of the poem by the lead character ("Find me a dead cloud and a sharp piece of science..."); no luck. If I ever buy another copy it'll be for that. Thank you!
I've been waiting for this one! Great work sir! I have always been disappointed that this series was never completed. I always assumed that, after reading many of Moore's ultra detailed scripts that Sienkiewicz, who has always been more abstract, couldn't work in such a rigid manner once the shine of working on a "Alan Moore project" wore off.
I would totally buy a finished book of this story. I feel like it leaving money on the table. If Gainman can finish Miracleman, then nothing is impossible.
I found about Mandelbrot sets from a google search, it is simple enough to explain. In short, equation used to explain fractals (infinitely repeating patterns). The equation used is f(x)= x^2 + c. With x being any variable and c being a constant number.
I now wonder if you'll do a video analyzing 1963's plot. I know you mentioned the behind the scenes cobflict with that miniseries, what I'm suggesting is an analysis of the story
It's pretty interesting to hear the phrase "...enthusiasm and raw talent is in the distant past." That's almost horrifying -- to become crystallized, codified. If Moore and Columbia had worked out some agreement in which he could ape Sienkievich in the first half of Issue 4 and gradually explore into his own style as that issue finished, then on into the rest of the series... Well. Anyway.
Its because he is a 100% idealistic hippie at heart. He believes in sharing things evenly and trusting his fellow man. Unfortunately, the world and humanity in general more often than not rewards such openness with negative results
I do agree. I believe he was trusting in his business dealings and believed that everyone was as transparent as himself. And their intentions leaned towards fairness. Unfortunately, that's why there are contracts...to ensure there's at least some level of fairness. Even then, it's no guarantee. Which is what Moore learned over and over again.
I know that Benoît Mandelbrot is a very important and remarkable scientist, but if THAT was the actual response to Moore putting his name for the title of the series... if I was Alan Moore, I wouldn't have changed the title. It may seem that I might be elevating the comic book medium too much, but the man (at least in the Eddie Campbell book) seemed to have a prejudice against it that is not founded in any way.
honestly, given the time period, it's hard to not wonder if maybe the two of them were taking each other for granted I mean, this was both of them at the high of their popularity -they both had every reason to assume they'd get to work together again --perhaps even in or at the face of the mainstream. That they didn't "get to" finish this project is really only that they chose not to --both of them were at the top their game here, neither of them had anything to lose by finishing this. if eitheir of them actually cared about this more than a paycheck, this wouldn't even be an issue. point is, this wasn't a piece of art for either of them --as much as they both smack around at being artists, if this project had meant anything to them, it would have been finished decades back
Shout-out to Benoit Mandelbrot for getting skeezed out by Alan Moore way ahead of the population at large. Also, I'm mildly amused how Moore failed to understand that the numbers in the Mandelbrot set are not big at all, since every one of them has an absolute value of less than 2.
@Thenameless1 oh. I see. 👍 According to Neil Gaiman the writing has been completed but the issues are coming out very slowly. Miracleman the Silver Age #6 will be out in August.
It wasn't. I'm not a big fan, but if you go to his Wikipedia page, he's gotten a lot of praise for his (somewhat sporadic) work since then. The limitations on his career seem to stem from his own personal interest in or ability to produce rather than any sort of stigma as a result of this incident.
Personally, this video is the first I've even heard of him, and I've been into comics (esp Moore) for 30+ years, so I'd reckon he's been suitably comeuppanced.
I'll give you five big letters that should prove to Moore or anyone else that there's always gonna be somebody out there cable of completing any project: *SDOAR!*
for the record is you want to know how the story would have played out Moore has multiple time published a complete draft from start to finish of big numbers
I never liked this one. Neither the writing nor art stood out as anything great and there is no forward momentum despite 1/4 of the story being finished so no loss here.
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>Comic named big numbers
>Only released 2 issues
Joke writes itself
Ha ha ha! Indeed, it does.
Worth mentioning: you showed one page from "Brought to Light," the graphic novel that had one 32-page story by Moore and Sienkiewicz that they did manage to complete. And it is indeed a masterpiece: it's a blistering political satire that tells the story of the CIA's involvement in Central America during the Cold War. Moore uses devastating black comedy to make the story terrifying, and he is matched by Sienkiewicz' artwork that makes the entire story a surreal nightmare. This may be why the story begins and ends with "This is not a dream."
I agree. It's a piece of work I've been meaning to cover for the Obscure Moore section. It's frightening and very well done.
I once had the brief opportunity to ask Moore about this, but he wasn't interested in talking about it, just saying that he harbored no ill will for anyone involved.
Considering how much Moore holds a grudge, I suppose wishing no ill will is the best that can be done.
@@Aaron-zt5ee I also should have clarified those weren't his own choice of words, just my clumsy attempt to paraphrase a brief, hazily remembered conversation from the early '90s.
@@noneofyourbusiness4616 It's cool. I was more commenting on Alan Moore's usual grumpiness.
These two masters would have been insanely amazing
My thoughts exactly.
i really wanted Ashley Wood to take over the series. His style is similar to Sienkiewicz and proved he could hit a deadline too. oh what could have been.
Wood would’ve been fantastic!
Such a shame that this potential masterpiece never got completed.
There's a lot to love in those first two issues. Just like you said, it could have been a revolutionary work of art. 😢
The fact Tundra didn’t take Al Columbia to court after his stunt is honestly kinda baffling to me.
Ultimately, Tundra turned into a money pit. Which is still something that baffles me to this day. Possibly, the $9,200 they gave him was a small amount to Eastman? Maybe they took that loss as a learning lesson? I don't know.
@@StrangeBrainParts they over paid people and undersold book so it blue up in there face,
Would be very interesting to see Big Numbers completed in the modern day seeing as we're now 30+ years out from the economic and cultural time period that it's story is critiquing and is built around.
I bought each of those issues off the shelf and just waited forever and ever.
You and everyone else. :)
I mean, there are generations of readers since who never got it off the shelf.
I genuinely wish that they finished this. This could have been a nail in the coffin for ideas on comics not being old enough. A grounded, novel esque tale of chaos and order through the lens of ordinary people.
Historically, it could have added to the prestige of the medium, in my opinion.
An excellent overview of a never-completed classic. I remember getting these off the stands, then waiting, waiting….
Well Gaiman and Bucky’s MIRACLEMAN finally came back, so who knows? ⚪️🖖♾
0:40 I might need to check that theme later
1:34 Another video to check later: The watchmen video
3:18 Another video to check later
I did embed those in the video when I uploaded it. Going to have to check to make sure they show up. Thanks for the reminder!
Ah, comic's great "What If...?"
Sad story, so unfortunate how many interesting projects, in comics and other mediums, due to the basically logistics, great video as always
For some reason this hits me a bit harder than 1963…
I bought the two Mad Love issues in real time. It was such a disappointment to have it evaporate.Thanks for sharing this story of two of my favorite creators. Sienkiewicz is the nicest guy in comics.
Now I wanna find interviews with Mandlebrot talking about this book
I like the premise and wish they had finished. I remember reading a novel that took place in Virginia and it centered around a Civil War cemitary and a man trying to buy it to build a mall and housing developments on it
Moore could turn the project into a prose book. It would be interesting to see the story in this format.
I doubt it, this project was started with the idea to see what they could do with the comics medium
You find the best stories to talk about!
I spoke to a friend who was a student/disciple of Sienkiewicz, and who has been a comics artist with a similar style. I knew my friend had some connection to the project. Sienkiewicz approached my friend about possibly stepping in for future issues, and showed him Moore's scripts. Apparently the script for a 40 page comic was 400 pages long! My friend felt he couldn't work under those constraints, and didn't have the skill needed to do the job required. My guess is that coming off Watchmen, Moore was used to generating these monster scripts. (Entirely a supposition on my part.) I've gotten the impression that he now works with the artists more to not be so overriding. But again, I'm an outsider hearing rumors on Moore's process.
Love this series! Great job on the video, I appreciate your work
Hey Food! Neat!
Thank you very much!
Never heard of this project thanks for bringing it to light for me!
I know its unrelated to the vid but Rest in Peace, John Romita Sr
Oh no...I've been so busy putting this together I wasn't aware he had passed. Aw, man. Rest In Peace, sir.
Damn, he was 93!
Sienkiewicz has said he would like to finish it but that's probably never going to happen...hes been working on a comic for the last 10 yrs..
I never knew that Moore and Sienkiewics had worked together. Another entertaining and informative video.
They worked together twice! Big Numbers and Shadow Play. And both are pretty awesome.
@@StrangeBrainParts with that talent pool, you'd think it couldn't be anything less than brilliant. Again, I'm in awe of your encyclopedic knowledge.
I agree! On a bad day, Moore and Sienkiewicz would still be an amazing thing to read.
Don't be too in awe of my knowledge. It's backed up with a fair amount of research. :)
That is an absolutely wonderful video, very in-depth. I cannot wait for more. Be safe and have a wonderful day.
Thank you. You too!
I had no idea this even existed. I love how much I learn from this channel.
I have the Mandelbrot Set tattooed on my left elbow cause I’m freaky like that.
I had issue one back in the day. Now and then I try to search up a transcript of the poem by the lead character ("Find me a dead cloud and a sharp piece of science..."); no luck. If I ever buy another copy it'll be for that. Thank you!
Nice poetic ending
Thank you!
Thanks for doing a video on this !
I've been waiting for this one! Great work sir! I have always been disappointed that this series was never completed. I always assumed that, after reading many of Moore's ultra detailed scripts that Sienkiewicz, who has always been more abstract, couldn't work in such a rigid manner once the shine of working on a "Alan Moore project" wore off.
Good stuff
I seem to remember Ted McKeever was rumoured to be taking up the art duties on Big Numbers.
I would totally buy a finished book of this story. I feel like it leaving money on the table. If Gainman can finish Miracleman, then nothing is impossible.
Great overview!
Great video!
Thank you!
I found about Mandelbrot sets from a google search, it is simple enough to explain. In short, equation used to explain fractals (infinitely repeating patterns). The equation used is f(x)= x^2 + c. With x being any variable and c being a constant number.
I now wonder if you'll do a video analyzing 1963's plot. I know you mentioned the behind the scenes cobflict with that miniseries, what I'm suggesting is an analysis of the story
Hm. That never occurred to me. Mainly because it's incomplete, so I could only guess at where it was eventually going to land.
@@StrangeBrainParts perhaps to go over the plot of the 6 issues we have and then spectulate of the annual
Huh this is one of Moore's work i haven't read yet. I'll probably check it out.
Be aware...it's all beginning with no ending.
@@StrangeBrainParts You ever see the Big Numbers chart? It’s insane!
I tried to find it to include it in this video, but I couldn't locate it! It appeared in one book, but I don't have that in my collection.
the editor of big numbers Paul Jinkens went on to write Hellblazer and Spiderman.
It's pretty interesting to hear the phrase "...enthusiasm and raw talent is in the distant past." That's almost horrifying -- to become crystallized, codified.
If Moore and Columbia had worked out some agreement in which he could ape Sienkievich in the first half of Issue 4 and gradually explore into his own style as that issue finished, then on into the rest of the series... Well. Anyway.
To this day I hate Sienkiewicz's interior art, but I love his covers.
Alan moore is the most screwed over creator. It amazing that power bombing dc executives has not added to his writting
Its because he is a 100% idealistic hippie at heart. He believes in sharing things evenly and trusting his fellow man. Unfortunately, the world and humanity in general more often than not rewards such openness with negative results
I do agree. I believe he was trusting in his business dealings and believed that everyone was as transparent as himself. And their intentions leaned towards fairness. Unfortunately, that's why there are contracts...to ensure there's at least some level of fairness. Even then, it's no guarantee. Which is what Moore learned over and over again.
I would put Bill Finger or Jack Kirby on top of that list.
This was so interesting. Amazing video
I have issue 1. I’ll track down 2 some day
I know that Benoît Mandelbrot is a very important and remarkable scientist, but if THAT was the actual response to Moore putting his name for the title of the series... if I was Alan Moore, I wouldn't have changed the title.
It may seem that I might be elevating the comic book medium too much, but the man (at least in the Eddie Campbell book) seemed to have a prejudice against it that is not founded in any way.
Have both issues 😛
honestly, given the time period, it's hard to not wonder if maybe the two of them were taking each other for granted
I mean, this was both of them at the high of their popularity -they both had every reason to assume they'd get to work together again --perhaps even in or at the face of the mainstream.
That they didn't "get to" finish this project is really only that they chose not to
--both of them were at the top their game here, neither of them had anything to lose by finishing this.
if eitheir of them actually cared about this more than a paycheck, this wouldn't even be an issue.
point is, this wasn't a piece of art for either of them --as much as they both smack around at being artists, if this project had meant anything to them, it would have been finished decades back
Al Columbia is a name from a terrible 80's action movie
Until next time...
I still have my faded, somewhat crusty single issues that I bought off the rack. I saved nearly nothing else.
If Al Columbia wasn’t such a mercurial individual and produced more comics he easily could have been one of the greatest cartoonists of all time.
But who would work with him after this stunt?
" Sin' ka' weh' vitch' ". Got it.
Now onto Fabian N.
“Knee-Cheesy...” 😉
@@paulnash9851 thank you!
Did Al Columbia even exist?
He’s still working on comics and commercial art to this day.
Yes, he is a real person that works to this day.
Wake up babe new stranger brain video
Shout-out to Benoit Mandelbrot for getting skeezed out by Alan Moore way ahead of the population at large.
Also, I'm mildly amused how Moore failed to understand that the numbers in the Mandelbrot set are not big at all, since every one of them has an absolute value of less than 2.
If Miracleman can be completed, this can be too. I can hope and dream.
Is it not currently in the progress of being completed?
@@Thenameless1 I don't think so. Alan Moore is a novelist now. I think he wants to put comic books behind him.
@@afroscifizianzcomix7836 I meant the Neil Gaiman saga of it, I thought Alan Moore said his run on it was complete.
@Thenameless1 oh. I see. 👍 According to Neil Gaiman the writing has been completed but the issues are coming out very slowly. Miracleman the Silver Age #6 will be out in August.
I dunno man, I got into early high school, they started adding letters and greek into the math and I stopped paying attention...
I sincerely hope that Columbia's career was utterly canned after his stunt.
An excellent artist who never fulfilled his talent.
It wasn't. I'm not a big fan, but if you go to his Wikipedia page, he's gotten a lot of praise for his (somewhat sporadic) work since then. The limitations on his career seem to stem from his own personal interest in or ability to produce rather than any sort of stigma as a result of this incident.
Personally, this video is the first I've even heard of him, and I've been into comics (esp Moore) for 30+ years, so I'd reckon he's been suitably comeuppanced.
To the best of my knowledge, his comic work has been sporadic. But I do believe he mainly does fine illustration.
Alan Moore is a Neal Adams clone. Well, yes. Neal Adams and Dennis O' Neil influenced Frank Miller, Alan Moore, and Neil Gaiman.
"it's too difficult for any artist" - just because Bill S had to back out and his replacement was a scam artist?
I'll give you five big letters that should prove to Moore or anyone else that there's
always gonna be somebody out there cable of completing any project: *SDOAR!*
for the record is you want to know how the story would have played out Moore has multiple time published a complete draft from start to finish of big numbers
I never liked this one. Neither the writing nor art stood out as anything great and there is no forward momentum despite 1/4 of the story being finished so no loss here.
Um. Muth rhymes with Truth.
I did not know that. Thank you for the information. :)