Faulty Foundation of Augustinian Calvinism Part 1
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 พ.ย. 2024
- This historical study is the first in a series that takes us back to Augustine and explains his pagan background, his conversion, and his theological shift back to some of the philosophies he re-embraced and forced on the Scriptures that now provide the foundation for Reformed Theology.
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25:00 I don't think your Pelagius summary is correct. You are quoting what Augustine accused Pelagius of teaching, when it is contained in none of his writings. Pelagius was acquitted twice. Pelagius believed that babies didn't need to be baptised because they hadn't sinned yet. Augustine believed unbaptized babies were going to hell becausenof Adam's guilt.
Wrong. Pelagius upheld infant baptism for regeneration but not for forgiveness of sins since he affirmed infants weren’t sinful.
I don't think your agustinian maniquian heresy holds any good for the church
@@denmart9842 and Pelagius said to deny infant baptism for regeneration and makes one worse than a heretic in his letter to Pope Innocent.
Sorry, Pelagius himself you guys are heretics.
He was aquitted 4 times.
@@denmart9842 made up accusations. Funny how Provs project.
There is no tension between sovereignty and free will if people would stop defining sovereignty as determinism. Sovereignty simply means authority, the right to rule as one sees fit. Sovereignty is not the opposite of free will is, determinism is. God is no less sovereign whether we have libertarian free will or if our every thought, word, and deed are determined. Free will and determinism are differing expressions as to how God might exercise His sovereignty.
@darrennelson5855 determinism isn't the opposite of free will, unless you define free will as the opposite of determinism 😅
Fallacy
Properly defined and understood, there is NO 'tension' between God's 'sovereignty' and man's free will. It is true that God is sovereign. I.e., he is free to do as he pleases. But God is under no obligation to control anything simply because he could if he wanted. God must keep his promises and he cannot lie. He has limited himself in the earth realm and the affairs of men. Example; God cannot destroy the world again with water.. but not for the lack of water. He will accomplish whatever 'thing' he decides and can use man's willful rebellion to do it if necessary. It isn't that man can thwart God's ultimate choice it's that Calvinism presumes to know what that choice is. It is a logical fallacy to say because God decrees "A" thing... that God decrees "All" things.
Calvinism assumes God uses his power, perhaps, as if they might if they had it. They have an unnatural affinity for worshiping God's power at the expense of acknowledging his motivation. Which is Love. And Love is the noun describing 'who' and 'what' God actually is. Affording man the ability to make truly free moral choices is no threat to God's sovereignty. Holding man accountable for that over which he has no control is immoral, by God's own standards. And God does cannot do that.
Specifically regarding salvation, God's decree is active and expressed, even if you wanted to pretend that God isn't sovereignly bringing all things to pass.
Salvation is of His will to whom He pleases, not of our will or by our choice.
@christopherjames1160 those are just your retarded Calvinist thoughts. It does not say that in the Bible.
@@christopherjames1160 not our choice? then why does God literally say CHOOSE this day whom you will serve? Or tell us to set our treasures in heaven INSTEAD of on earth and encourage us that where your treasure is your heart will follow? Or invite people to Himself?? Have you read the bible?
“Ho! Everyone who thirsts,
Come to the waters;
And you who have no money,
Come, buy and eat.
Yes, come, buy wine and milk
Without money and without price.
2
Why do you spend money for what is not bread,
And your wages for what does not satisfy?
Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good,
And let your soul delight itself in abundance.
3
Incline your ear, and come to Me.
Hear, and your soul shall live;
And I will make an everlasting covenant with you-
The sure mercies of David.
what do you think that is a sucker punch?
@inTruthbyGrace are you assuming that God telling people to choose means they did?
Your point would only stand if scripture tells us anywhere that a rebel freely chose God without his prior intervention. Such a thing has never happened.
As such, there is no conflict between God's sovereignty and man's will.
The only choice in life that matters, no one makes - but for an act of God in the act of regeneration. Which is God's choice, not yours.
@@christopherjames1160 Your premise is rooted in the Augustinian false claim that all men are "born" in rebellion and Totally unable to respond positively to God ..( by his own decree), Unfortunately, this is in spite of the fact there is not a single verse or passage in all of scripture which ever establishes that to the the inherent condition of any man. We find that without the "T"... there is no need for "ULIP" and Calvinism literally dissolves into the mist from which it evolved.
God promises to save whosoever will believe, and he can be trusted to honor his word.
Some men will believe. Some will not. But, anyone can. And that is why the Gospel is "Good News" for every man.
To correct an error-Johyn Smith did not start any Baptist Churches. He was an Anglican and then left and got baptised by Ana Baptists. This took place in Holland and later wrote to Mennonites to seek to join their church. For this reason, Thomas Helwys excommunicated Smyth. Helwys went back to England and started the first Baptist Church...known as General Baptists and repudiated Limited Atonement.
I have a question for anyone who wants to answer: Did Judas have the free will choice to choose not to betray Jesus? I'm curious about this issue because the OT tells us that for 30 pieces of silver He (Jesus) was betrayed.
Judas was not uniquely born cursed with Adam's "sin nature" inherited by birth and therefore not free to choose to not sin or not to betray Jesus... Judas executed the role of the son of perdition... but there were plenty of folks around Jesus who did not believe who were obviously willing to see Him executed.. the fact that God knew it was going to 30 pieces of silver does not mean Judas did not have freewill to follow and believe in Jesus.
@@inTruthbyGrace Do you believe that the fall of mankind had no effect on human nature?
3:48 - 3:55 Mis-quoted Acts 13:48 “...and when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.“
🙏🏻🙏🏻🏆🏆
My old SBC church hired a Calvanist last year. My family and I are in the process of leaving. It's been very sad and difficult for our family.
Sadly, this is happening to a lot of SBC churches. I recommend TH-cam channel Beyond the Fundamentals. He has several recent situations and 2 lovely women who walk through their experiences with the same. You may find it encouraging and enlightening. God Bless You!
@@kbuchanan2026 It happened to my best friend of 50yr's home church a couple years ago. His son came home from college a "10" point Calvinist after pumping Pipers podcast in his head 24/7 along with his roommate and their new youth pastor while away at school.
After he came home it was instrumental in bringing that youth pastor to be their new lead pastor in his home town... 100% stealth. He finally left after 4yrs to take another position but he seldom gave a straight answer about what he was doing... and they lost about 1/3 of the congregation who understood what was happening. They're trying to recover now with a new pastor, but it's slow going after the 'seeds' of TULIP have been planted.
How can someone get a copy of these slides or this material???
31:23 traditional view of salvation summarised
Augustine was a type A personality. He was driven to be on top just like a wall street mogul. Anyone who got in his was the object of his wrath. Poor Pelagius got in his way and dared to criticize Augustine’s actions and teachings. Augustine’s Manichaean beliefs never left him. He interjected them into Christianity just like mixing sewage and lemonade. The result was the murderous Catholic Church and the murderous reformers.
That’s accurate
Agreed
What on earth are you talking about? What do you know about St Augustine's personality? Or what is manichean in his doctrine??
Delete this lying post.
@@the4gospelscommentarycalm down pumpkin 😂😂🤡
2:48-2:56 “Man if there was ever a philosophical system that Augustinian Calvinism is it”
Already poisoning the well.
Obviously Gods sovereignity
Conflicts with man's freewill
As man wants to be the author
Of everything trying to rob
God of his glory
Evangelists will offer salvation to people saying all you need to do is this and that and accept Jesus into your hearts
Hoping he will change you
Maybe in theory but not in practice and many false conversions appear
Looks good for the evangelist
People going forward as he
Thinks his preaching is giving
Instant conversions much like instant coffee very american
Evangelism is big business in the usa!
Anglo lost in Calvinisms definition application of sovereignty!
Sola de do better, much better!
Will and choice are two different things. Your will is your nature which is fallen in Adam. You make free choices of all kinds. But even those choices are heavily determined by environmental influences. Scripture consistently says God is sovereign and without Him no man would turn to God and concurrently with that truth men are responsible for their actions. No man ats contrary to his nature. That is his choices are in line with that. Instead of accusing calvinists of traditions perhaps it would be beneficial to review ones own traditions in the light of Scripture. The battle is not over the fallibility of men like Augustine, it's over what does Scripture say.
no no no... Acts 13:48 the ones doing the "appointing" are the gentiles NOT God.. it is a 3rd person plural verb and it is NOT a passive/ subjunctive verb, it is a pluperfect periphrastic... contextually it is inextricably linked to verse 46 where the Jews were judging themselves unworthy.
4 issues of caution to consider when translating this verse that is clearly tied to verse 46 in literary contrast to the Jews who are "judging themselves unworthy of eternal life"
1) Paul knows how to use the words προτεταγμενοι AND προοπισμενοι so if he meant preordination he could have used those verbs.
2) we have 2 examples of how the Holy Spirit inspired the use of this word to see men being ordained/appointed in the past in Matt 28:16 & Luke 7:8, AND the Holy Spirit used the same "periphrastic" construct with eimi and the perf mp particple with the Centurion in Luke 7:8
3) comparing the other "periphrastic" construct of ειμι τασσομενος in Luke 7:8 (translated I am appointed/ ordained), here in verse 48, there is a very specific 3rd person plural (they) imperfect/ ongoing ACTION in ησαν , it CAN NOT be translated as a completed action but an ONGOING in that past moment so no matter what, you have GOT to reflect the 3rd person plural and their ongoing action in that moment in the past!
4) God is NOT mentioned nor named in this verse as doing this appointing or it would have been a third person singlular as when Jesus appointed the men in Matt 28:16 direct literal: they believed as many as they were being appointed to eternal life
@inTruthbyGrace it's literally a passive participle.
It means the people appointed, received the appointing - they did not commit the action of the appointing. It is not a mindset.
But it is paraphrastic,and that solidifies the meaning as appointed, not merely a disposition.
Glad we're on the same page now 👍
.
Ps & our Lord said to those the unsaved …. YOU…WILL… NOT… so how can ya…” WILL NOT… if ya have … NO… WILL… to… WILL… NOT…With❤
Debate James White !
LOL, he's not on that level. :P
That's not what Pelagius said, thats what Augustine said he taught. Pelagius proves otherwise and was considered orthodox at every council he was allowed to defend himself at.
What’s so amazing & stupid @ the same time…& so contrary to Gods word … is their bs of admitting we have…” free will..” but w/ this …” free will..” WE… CAN… ONLY… CHOOSE… TO…DO….EVIL… Can’t choose Christ… but can choose to do… evil…yet Jos. 24:15 refutes this slanderous attack against Gods word… as does Jer. 29:13 & Isa. 1:10-20 oh & Isa.55:7,8 what did our Lord say to those stiff necked… UNSAVED & UNREGENERATED… Judaizers…??? ❤
Dr Ken Wilson has severely debunked Calvinism
Ken wilson dissertation would make a great case study in how NOT to do scholarship 😅
If Augustine was so wrong and that can be proven, no one would have to to resort to the abysmal tactics mr.wilson likes to pretend counts as academic.
@christopherjames1160 Can we say the same thing about Calvinism's Giants of the Faith, and Calvinism's popular cult of personality false teachers of today? Sproul, McArthur, piper. Those are just a bunch of deceptive clowns that Calvinists worship and whose words are considered authoritative, yet they deny Scriptural authority at every turn because Scriptures do not support Calvinism.
@@christopherjames1160 that. He is a wicked man.