I’m passionate about helping the 4wd community and I'm developing an online course so i can help as many people as I can to get out there and wheel well on their 4wd adventures. To register your interest and for free and exclusive training videos visit madmatt4wd.com.au/register
@@MadMatt4WD do you still have your 105? If you do can you find a 100 with independent front suspension and than do the video again because the vehicles will be more even
i dont mean to be so off topic but does anyone know of a way to get back into an Instagram account? I somehow forgot the account password. I would appreciate any help you can offer me.
@Emmanuel Grey I really appreciate your reply. I got to the site through google and im trying it out now. I see it takes quite some time so I will reply here later with my results.
Great idea to create such a channel. Many talk only about rigging it up, and 4wd are becoming more and more popular, but actually not many do grow a genuine knowledge along. This channel really adds to the 4wd community.
I run independent front suspension and solid rear diff in my 4wd and I love it. I don’t do stupid tracks. I hit ruts and sand but lots of gravel, I tow my camper trailer a lot and other trailers. My car handles it fine. I’ve got no need for a solid front diff.
MadMatt 4WD I’ve looked at live axle vehicles in the past and I’ve driven them but I’ve always owned ifs 4wd’s. I’ve done stupid hard tracks and full on winch fest tracks in my cars and handled it fine. I’ve got a pajero now that’s ifs and it goes everywhere and does what I want to do. It’s my family car, play car, Towing vehicle and my touring, camper towing rig. I love my 4wd. Ifs setup has never failed me. I’ve broken cvs and shafts etc and have it fixed in a day. I’ll regretfully if no other choice buy a live axle rig but for me it’s IFS all the way.
MadMatt 4WD please keep the videos going and I actually enjoy when I get the notifications from your page. Love your work mate and your honest straight up to the point work. Good luck and keep these videos coming. Love to see your opinion on the old NL Pajero if you ever do a video on that. Not many people actually like the pajeros but I love mine. If your ever in wa I’ll have to get you on a run with my crew. Would be an honour
MadMatt 4WD is there a way of us supporting your channel so you can keep these videos going. Be it sending funds or buying products that you get something for also. I’m happy to support the channel
Solid axle everyday of the week. My Suzuki Sierra is 25 years old and has been off road all around Australia with not one axle issue. Great topic Matt 👍
That is the best break down I’ve ever seen. You make valid points. I’ve been a veteran for many years and can honestly say your knowledge and explanation is amazing. Well done sir.
Got a Swb mk2 pajero and have had zero problems with suspension. Granted,,it’s all been unrated with Old man emu and Arb front and rear diff locks,,but still,,,before all this,,it was fantastic off road! I do love this channel and all the advice and trucks on here. Great little community of like minded people,,in it for the love of it!!!👍👍👍
Thanks for the video, Matt! Great explanation! I have a Jeep XJ with solid axles front and rear and I love how it works both on and off road. Yes, it's a bit "trucky" driving it on smoothly paved roads, but it's really nice off the roads because of that constant ground clearance. It's pretty much impossible for me to hit the bottom of the vehicle on the ground if the axle doesn't hit it first (barring some weird breakover situation). Also, the Dana 30 and 44 front axle in the Jeeps does not have CV joints at the ends (in the XJ and the Wranglers - not so with the Grand Cherokees). They have standard U-joints at the steering ends of the axles. This does require some additional lube and care, but generally, they are stronger than CV joints of similar size. I love watching your channel and was thrilled to see you work with Matt's Offroad Recovery earlier this year! Stay safe! Keep the shiny side up! Cheers!
Great explanation, i was scratching my head as to why the ineos Grenadier had chosen solid beam suspension. Now i understand more about the two systems
My prefence is solid front axle and my daily is an LN106 HiLux, so leaf springs and solid axles all around. However, I have driven a few other LN series IFS Hilux variants both on and off road and have noted the following differences: Having the diff tucked up out of the way and a bashplate under it on the IFS means the front end is more likely to slide across the ground rather than plow into it like a solid axle's pumpin does when you bottom out The solid axle version stays more level when crossing ruts at an angle as the extra travel and effect on the opposite wheel means one side doesn't drop in as much as an IFS one would Ride and handling isn't great on either variant, though the IFS versions do corner better as they an anti rollbar in addition to any benefits the IFS gives Wheel alignment is more easily adjusted on the IFS versions, so tends to be easier to knock out of whack, where it is more set and forget on a solid axle... Overall capability is determined more by other factors such as tyres and lockers in many situations... On a general note, I've also noticed that solid axles have a certain amount of passive steering inherent to the design, as the movement of the shackles on a leaf spring system, or the radius arms or equivalent on a coil system, pull the wheel back or forward depending on what point they are at in their range of travel....on IFS this variance is in camber, which in general seems to be more manageable in terms of handling....
"The solid axle version stays more level when crossing ruts at an angle as the extra travel and effect on the opposite wheel means one side doesn't drop in as much as an IFS one would." This is a very important comment. I can take my SFA vehicle over an off-camber spot on a hill with little drama, but when I take my IFS vehicle over the same spot when one front wheel drops into the off-camber portion, the vehicle can come close to rolling. The most common solution to this in an IFS is to substantially stiffen the front springs so that the suspension acts more like an SFA--of course, the ride and highway handling are considerably less pleasant.
"So let's sit in the middle of a creek with a $5000 laptop, shall we?" Almost blew my mouthful of beer all over the keyboard with that one! As an IT asset manager, I was clenched the entire video! Nicely done, lots of very good information - thank you!
Live axle is better for low speed off road. IFS is better for high speed off road. Obviously upgrades can be made for both, but that’s pretty much the basic rule.
Glad to help. Defiantly horses for courses. I’d love to take one of my 4wds for a run in Johnson valley. I’ve been there a bunch as well as sand hollow. But not in my vehicles.
Great video! Only thing I think that wasn't mentioned but is more for the serious off roader is that the solid axle in the front greatly benefits from a locker since it's far easier for a wheel to come off the ground vs an ifs where as the ifs doesn't benefit much from it and it'd only add more stress on the cv joints
I don’t actually agree with that though. Both benefit from a locker and an ifs can handle a locker just fine so long as the driver understands how to use it correctly.
@@MadMatt4WD agree 100%. Also would say that a front locker in ifs is more important as they tend to do pretty impressive wheel lifts constantly and that shock load of a spinning tyre hitting the ground to a stop is what's going to break that cv joint pretty quickly. I've done 2 cv joints before like that and put a locker in and haven't broken a cv since.. could also be down to more careful driving as you get older too 😅👌
I own two 4WDs, an 80 series Landcruiser and an IFS Hilux, both have mild suspension upgrades, and I can say without a doubt that the live axle Landcruiser is a far more capable vehicle on bad gravel roads and going slow through difficult obstacles. The IFS is a compromise, there is no compromise with coil sprung live axle vehicles. The Hilux is still a great vehicle, I just cant expect it to keep up with the Landcruiser.
Excellent explanation Matt!! Thank you for sharing! BTW - Found your channel after viewing your partner video with Matt's Off-Road Recovery! Keep up the great work!
I wheel a long travel Xterra (think of it as a cheaper cousin to the Patrol in the US and it has IFS/Solid rear) and it's been fine for me but now I'm moving on to an 80series LC and I agree with your points. The IFS handles better on road and has more comfort but I've broken multiple IFS pieces offroad. Reliability is important to me and that generally is where a solid axle shines.
Matt... A very fair assessment of a solid axle and an IFS. I agree totally with your pros/cons points made. Well done! My PowerWagon, with its proprietary "Articulink" solid front and rear axles, breaks the basic concept that this type of suspension system is less comfortable on and off-road. The PowerWagon completely rides like a Lexus on the highway and is very smooth when riding at faster speeds on corrugations off-road. My Jeep JK and TJ coil sprung solid axle vehicles are more representative of a rougher ride on the highway than an IFS vehicle.
Really good explanation. I had most of that in my head previously. But it’s helpful to have it confirmed by an expert 👍. Our MU-X is ute based, IFS front, solid rear. Not perfect, but it came out on top for our requirements. One of these was we could buy it via lease. Right now there are very limited options for solid front from new (or near new). Our plan right now is the minimum to go 95% of places. Quality off-road AT tyres, snorkel, bash plates, recovery points and gear, hand winch, roof rack and recovery boards. We are also considering a $600 front auto-locker. We’ve actually done quite a bit of off-roading with a stock setup. So long as the tracks are dry and the tyres low it’s been awesome 😀 With careful driving and track selection, we feel we can avoid the following, at least initially: Bull bar, rock sliders, electric winch, suspension lift, engine mods. Interested to hear experienced thoughts.
Congratulations! For almost the first time in any off-road articles or videos that I've seen, you accurately described the ground clearance issues with an IFS. I own 4WDs with IFS and SFA suspensions. For hard off-road use, I greatly prefer an SFA front suspension. Sadly, here in states, the only new vehicles available with SFA are heavy duty pickups and the Jeep Wrangler/Gladiator. Sadly, the Jeeps have some pretty serious reliability issues aside from the SFA.
I bought my 93 Yota pickup 14 years ago. I needed a pickup for work and I knew Toyota had a good reputation. The IFS is very nice for all the freeway driving I've done over the years. However, anytime I have to cross a ditch or wash diagonally, the IFS flexes out and I'm left teetering with no drive. I cured this by installing a rear air locker, but I've watched stock Jeep Cherokees drive through the same obstacles with no issue. So, like you said, solid axles are the way to go if you're doing anything more than a dirt mountain road.
@Artemio Medina not all ditches and drainages cross the road perpendicularly, so you have to cross at an angle. If you have open front and rear diffs when you teeter, the 2 wheels that are dangling in the air will spin and no drive will be applied to the 2 wheels left on the ground. At that point you're stuck unless you can lock one or both differentials to apply power to the ground.
@Artemio Medina the center lock forces power to front and rear yes, without lockers in the differential, power goes to the tire with least resistance, ie the one in the air
For hard core off-roading solid axle is always the way to go for strength and reliability. For high speed bumps and stuff, prerunner style independent takes the bumps better.
I switched from a solid axle to IFS. While I don't regret it for other reasons, I'd prefer to have the solid axle back disregarding all else. I switched from a Jeep XJ to a Toyota Tacoma. The only things I really miss from the driving experience are the solid axle and a real shifter for the transfer case. I have always been envious of the Toyota selection (or 4WD selection in general even) the rest of the world outside of North America gets.
Awesome content as always Matt! My 2c from IFS experience. In terms of KUN Hilux and PX Ranger vehicles the genuine CV’s are stronger and more reliable then their aftermarket counterparts. I use genuine 2nd hand CV’s from all four x 4. Many people have had a hard time with aftermarket CV’s. A good quality diff drop will help with re-aligning geometry and de-stressing CV’s with a lift. But let’s be honest solid axle is king anything else is a compromise 😉
Interesting Thomas. I’ve only had one ifs 4wd and it was rubbish in every way. It broke everything. I’ve always gone to the terrain tamer cvs and had a good run with them. As in never blown one without it being well worn.
Well I can’t say I’ve ever tried TT but GSP, Repco etc 🤢 don’t last more than a few months. Genuine last years. Then the inferior aftermarket go and make longer cv’s for lifted vehicles which just bind up and pop. Poor unsuspecting people think they’re doing the right thing.
I own a 105, owned a troopy, spent a lot of time in other live axle 4wd's, on a recent trip i jumped into a D40 navara and was shocked at how much more comfortable it was at speed over the rough stuff.
Great Video MadMatt!! I daily drive my 1985 Toyota 4runner Sr5 5 speed on 35's with 5:29 gearing front and rear, rear brakes converted from drum to discs. and have been using ethanol free gasoline and it 'gets 23mpg. unbelievable to why ethanol is even being used!!
Canadian here, any of you Aussies run long travel kits on your ifs trucks? Lots of fun at high speeds but you can keep 4x4 by getting extended cv axles, and control arms which improves your angles.
I think you've nailed it for the most part. My Chev Silverado 3500 has IFS in the front and I have a 4.5" lift. However, the CVs still sit perfectly level/flat at rest due to the BDS kit incorporating a full diff drop of 4.5" too. Same thing with my previous vehicle; a 2006 100 Series 1HD-FTE, in which I had a 3" lift with diff drop to keep the geometry just right. My days of hard wheelin' are behind me and at 65 I'm looking for more comfort and power than offroad capability. Like you said....horses for courses.
Had an interesting experience with a 200 series owner towing a 2.5 ton caravan. He said that his previous 3 Pajeros towed better than the 200, obviously ignoring the power/torque difference. He added that the Pajero rig was much more stable under normal driving conditions and was not referring to off road conditions.
I own a 2002 Gen 3 NM Pajero, this is the first of the IFS/IRS range with the Gen 1 & 2 being Solid rear with IFS and the Gen 3 & 4 being Independent all around. Personally I love the Pajero for its ride and handling both on and off road. I dont do large ruts and hill climbs but am not afraid to put a wheel in the air. Also I dont drive flat out at harder obstacles although there have been times Ive hit a wash out across a road a bit too hard. So far all Ive had to do suspension wise is replace the shocks and springs because they were old and worn, it is an 18 year old 4x4 after all. Ive had no issues with CV joints or any other part of my suspension/axel set up. I do have repairs to do on my power steering and have had to replace hubs but again it is an 18 year old 4x4 and it has been used as a 4x4 through mud, sand, dirt etc.
Fantastic video! Really filled in a lot of gaps for me. Most of my off road is hunting here in Wyoming in my 1500 Silverado 4x4, which has independent front suspension.
Love the segment mate no matter how many times something like this is explained it's still good knowledge to know even with the new cars and all the technology that comes with it nothing wrong with a refresha
Dealing with this now. IFS on my truck, which I thought was plenty strong enough for my relatively light use, but now I've got a bent control arm and damned if I know how or when it happened.
I also can’t visit the dealership because i bought it from a car importer here in the Philippines and they just won’t service cars bought from overseas. Thanks Matt! 🙏🏼
The only way to truly test the comfort comparison would be a 100 series verses the 105 with the same suspension as far as possible. Interesting to see the new kid on the block, the Grenadier has gone for two solid axles, the right decision in my opinion.
Nick, there is a lot said about reliability of the Disco 3 - what's your experience? (I really like these cars and love the air suspension. For me, its a toss up between the D3 and the Touareg 4XMotion also with air suspension)
Benny the air suspension I run is airbag man coil bags. Easy install into the coil springs if you don’t run coil over shockies. Since putting the airbags in my Pajero the car is so much better with the weight I carry in my rig. I’m fully setup for touring with the draws, fridge, tools etc I’ll never look back from the helper air bags. One of the best investments I’ve ever made.
Nice video. Just to add, the IFS vehicles have a lower center of gravity because the engine can be positioned lower than in the front solid axle vehicle, which needs the engine in upper position to allow the movement of the axle. The IFS are generally better copying the terrain at “high speed” than the solid axle vehicles, this is because the less unsprung masses, the independent movement of each wheel and because the wheels move up down without changing the caster which allows better grip and handling, and because the lower COG. That’s why the rally raid cars are at least IFS if not full independent suspension. But for passing obstacles the solid axles are better because of the much bigger wheel travel (which lets more tire contact and so more traction), but the solid axles transmits more movement to the car body, which added to the other differences makes the solid axle vehicles less suited for high speed off-road. Each solution has its strong points. Honestly I think the vehicles with IFS and rear solid axle has the best compromise between both designs, that’s good enough for obstacles as the rear solid axles flex a lot to provide traction, and good enough to off roading “fast” thanks to the benefits of the IFS design. Of course this design is not the best for fast off-road and it’s neither the best for big obstacles, but good enough for both scenarios
Not necessarily true about center of gravity. The design of the vehicle has a lot to do with center of gravity. My XJ Cherokee (SFA) with a 3" lift has a way lower center of gravity than my Jeep KJ (Liberty) with IFS that also has a 3" lift (and almost 2" less ground clearance). Also, as my example illustrates, and IFS vehicle may require a "taller" lift to achieve the same ground clearance as an SFA vehicle, destroying the IFS center-of-gravity advantage of the IFS vehicle.
But I think the problem is IFS vehicles are way tippier than solid axle vehicles on trails. Much easier to flip an IFS rig on a trail that requires suspension travel
@@rockymountainjazzfan1822 of course that it depends on the vehicle design. But the case of your cars doesn’t make it true for all the cars. Without think on lifts, the independent suspensions allows designs with lower CG. But it doesn’t mean that all the IFS cars has lower CG. Regarding the ground clearance, usually independent suspension provides higher one, however it’s variable with the movement of the wheels as the lowest point is on the frame of the car. In the other hand the SA usually has lower clearance but it’s constant as the lower point of the axles moves up with the wheels, as the lower point is on the axle. Always talking about keeping same wheel size.
I’ve been to TJ’s a couple of times now, my 80 series loves it. When going off road, your not looking for comfort, your looking for the ability. I’d like to see comparison in the 100 series with live and independent suspension on the tracks but having same springs and shocks.
I wish I was aware of IFS and solid axel 4wd before purchasing my 1st 4wd. I ended up getting a NP Pajero which is IFS front and rear. I now relizes for the type of 4wd I like a solid axel 4wd would be ideal. My Pajero now has a 2 inch lift 33s and an Xrox bar. Am keen to do more testing on some tough tracks to see how it goes but thinking of selling to purchase a solid axel. Seems they will be a thing of the past..
I’m a bronco guy so I’m ifs, but what I’m hoping is that enough manufacturers competing will bring about innovation. IFS with better articulation or solid axle with better road manners.
Hi Matt,. I will start off by saying I'm a solid axle guy. I have owned vehicles with both systems, so I have experience with lifting both and pros and cons. Btw our US solid axles have U joints up front vs CVs. In my opinion it boils down that the solid axle is stronger and easier to lift but is a little wallowy on road, whereas the IFS is smoother on road but weaker and harder/ more expensive to properly lift. In particular the steering tie rods and CVs the weak points. The knuckle side ball joints take a severe beating as well, especially on lifted vehicles with large tires. I have 2 other pros to the solid axle that are oft over looked. 1) when the left wheel goes up over a boulder for instance, the right wheel side of the axle gets pushed down into the rut due the leverage/fulcrum physics improving traction through both wheels, whereas an IFS tends to lift the opposite wheel.2) a solid axle vehicle can actually improve clearance by taking a wheel directly over an obstacle raising the axle further vs avoiding the obstacle with the wheel...this comes in handy sometimes so long as you are properly aired down and have tough tires to take on the obstacle. A wise man once told me there is no more better clearance than under you tire....think about that a bit😀. That said I've witnessed a Toyota Tundra with a greatly upgraded suspension and swaybar removed was very impressive on the trail.
@@MadMatt4WD one other thing Matt, some guys in the western US guage a 4WD that can bash thought open desert areas at high speed...most likely with a Raptor with IFS. Take a look at some videos of Thuren tuned Ram 2500s with solid axles running across the sand whoops. Proof that if you tune the shocks right you can make a solid axle truck float over the dunes as well.
MadMatt 4WD I saw a video of a person crossing a river once, and he filmed the different way IFS and live axles handled the different levels. The camera was focused on the ifs looking towards the centre of the car. Interesting. He was saying the you have more possibilities to get hung-up in a river with ifs than live and after seeing his video I believe it, and that’s one place I don’t want to get stuck.
If you want a Wrangler with independent suspension, get the Cherokee Trailhawk. There aren't that many fully independent suspension vehicles with a locker. I can barely think of any that aren't range Rover.
I have a Tacoma Off Road in the US. Would be cool if we had the option to select a solid front axle. Guess it would just cost too much to manufacture two different lines of vehicles.
Great video as always Matt I must say I currently have a 2013 dmax with all the usual fruit and it's on 33s and it's my daily. It's also my first 4wd I've evey owned and after 6 years of going off road and finding what I do and don't like. I've decided to come over to a 105 series landcruiser so I can do more of that slow flexie 4wding witch I really like and the simplicity of the soild axle is very intuitive too me I'll keep the dmax for on road and family camping and the 105 series landcruiser will be the weekend weapon I'm actually picking it up on Wednesday next week
@@MadMatt4WD yea plan on running some maxxis razor M/T 33s on a 2inch lift start there anyway and go from there I live in lithgow so awesome tracks to test on
@@MadMatt4WD ya true, how could I forget the Bundy. The further apart the wheels the smother the ride, but then smaller the ramp over angle. Just most systems in a vehicle, there's more to it than a few parts.
@@Matthew_Australia my comments on wheel base was based on MadMatt's comment about the 105 being smother than the Hilux. If you want all things to equal as best as possible you should compare a 100 and a 105. Same vehicle just IFS or Solid front. Was just adding to the conversation yes another factor, but a factor that changes the ride quality more than suspension system.
You didn't mention the advantage of traction on the ISS. Ag tractors have been calling attention to that for some time. The tires are always flat on the surface.
Yes but in an offroad situation I don't think that will have a big bearing due to the surface always changing shape. For tractors for sure it would be a factor. Also airing down allows the tyre to form to the surface.
@@MadMatt4WD I got my mom doing foot exercises to heal a bone spur on the top of her foot! I explain by using a rolling spike thing - it stretches the bottom arch to reverse the compression on the top of her foot. I tell her that is the root cause of the bone spur. It is working. haha.
Thoughts on TTB? Thats what I decided on for my build. I might be biased but seems to me it has most of the advantages of both IFS and solid axle ;) . And if you endup with dana 50 ttb out of a 3/4 ton truck, but on coils....
I've owned a couple of TTB vehicles. Depending on how you look at it, TTB is either combination of the best features of SFA and IFS, or a combination of the worst features of both. TTB is more rugged than IFS, but has more unsprung weight than an IFS. TTB handles better on the highway than an SFA, but worse than an IFS. TTB is easier to lift than an IFS, but more difficult to lift than an SFA. TTBs can be difficult to keep aligned properly, compared to either an IFS or SFA (my TTB vehicles always wore the front tires excessively, even when properly aligned--a very common complaint about TTB suspensions). TTB can suffer like an IFS with decreased center ground clearance when the suspension goes into compression. About the only solution (as it is with an IFS) is to stiffen the springs sufficiently to decrease the deflection, but that also hurts ride quality (just as it does in an IFS when the springs are stiffened).
@@rockymountainjazzfan1822 Wow I posted this 4 weeks ago and I'm STILL working on this front end haha. Almost got it done, I'll let you know how a dana 50 on coils rides eventually haha.
At my 66 years old I had both and by far I will prefer IFS. If one axle break IFS easy to fix, don’t have deal with oil leaks as the solid axle, smooth freeway suspension, easy maintenance than solid axle I had rebuilt a couple solid axle and have way many parts than IFS now if you gonna do rock crawling yes solid axle it’s the way to go but most of the peoples do more overlanding than rock crawling. My opinion thanks
Thanks Matt, another good vid. To be fair I've never heard of anyone hitting the bash plate while travelling at speed in an IFS vehicle. Rock climbing maybe, but while driving? Never heard of it happening. I think the consumer needs to weigh up a more comfort ride verses less likely to break something while doing tough tracks. That should come down to how often you wheel
Thanks mate. Defiantly a case of making sure a person buys the right vehicle for the way they use it. The most common place to see the bash plate getting hit is in a deep rutted track where the suspension is cycling due to bumps, or on sand at the base of a dune as they start to climb. You can see the evidence of it happening when you follow a IFS vehicle and you'll see a flat scrape mark between the wheels.
Hi Matt I found your video very helpful. Would you think itt would be possible to swap the front IFS axle on a 10O series land cruiser to a solid axle?
The most obvious direct comparison would be between a standard 100 series vs a standard 105 series.....the thing I love about the 105 is it's essentially a continuation of the awesome 80 series.....yeah I'm biased because I have an 80 😊
Beam suspension isn't a solid axle...have to look at a vehicle like an early 90's American Ford Ranger...that is a beam suspension. Kinda odd, but has advantages. Tougher than IFS, at any rate. And better articulation, though not as good as a solid axle. Also? Live axle means there's no disconnect. In my 2003 American Ranger, there is no disconnect from the hub. The axle shafts and differential both spin even without power to the front end (as long as the vehicle is moving...obviously). Thus "Live". Great video! I do like my IFS for Overlanding...she sees a LOT of highway/Interstate miles, but can still do off road without too much fuss. It's all trade-offs, as you pointed out.
I think theres some international terminology differences Re: beam axle. When I was at collage in Australia that's what we were taught to call them. I disagree with your point 2 though. Have a look at this from a quick google search. BUT at the end of the day we all know what I'm trying to convey so I'm certainly not trying to prove anything here. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beam_axle Thanks for the encouragement. I'm stuck with live vehicles, Every time I drive IFS i'm personally underwhelmed.
I have own a Hilux too, it's year 2001 truck. It's feel more comfortable when I went to off-road. But, the cost to buy the spare parts were more expensive than live axle because my hilux has upper and lover arm ball joints, lower arm bushes. so, that was the cons
I’m passionate about helping the 4wd community and I'm developing an online course so i can help as many people as I can to get out there and wheel well on their 4wd adventures. To register your interest and for free and exclusive training videos visit madmatt4wd.com.au/register
Can you take the front sway bar out of the hilux and do the video again
No i can't this was filmed some time back. @@runman74
@@MadMatt4WD do you still have your 105? If you do can you find a 100 with independent front suspension and than do the video again because the vehicles will be more even
This video has to be the best suspension comparison video I have seen. I loved and learned so much thanks. 👍👍
Glad to help
Both my 1993 FZJ80 and I agree with this information. Thanks for sharing Matt.
i dont mean to be so off topic but does anyone know of a way to get back into an Instagram account?
I somehow forgot the account password. I would appreciate any help you can offer me.
@Chris Travis instablaster ;)
@Emmanuel Grey I really appreciate your reply. I got to the site through google and im trying it out now.
I see it takes quite some time so I will reply here later with my results.
If I were an offroader, I would likely prefer a solid axle for its added strength and reliability. Great channel. Subbed.
Cheers
Great idea to create such a channel. Many talk only about rigging it up, and 4wd are becoming more and more popular, but actually not many do grow a genuine knowledge along. This channel really adds to the 4wd community.
Thanks. That’s what we’re aiming for.
The second I seen this man barefoot in the woods making his TH-cam video i just want to listen to what he has to say lol
Unless you're rock crawling why would you need a solid front axle
Barefoot men turn you on😅
I run independent front suspension and solid rear diff in my 4wd and I love it. I don’t do stupid tracks. I hit ruts and sand but lots of gravel, I tow my camper trailer a lot and other trailers. My car handles it fine. I’ve got no need for a solid front diff.
And that’s the important thing. We all have different needs
MadMatt 4WD I’ve looked at live axle vehicles in the past and I’ve driven them but I’ve always owned ifs 4wd’s. I’ve done stupid hard tracks and full on winch fest tracks in my cars and handled it fine. I’ve got a pajero now that’s ifs and it goes everywhere and does what I want to do. It’s my family car, play car, Towing vehicle and my touring, camper towing rig. I love my 4wd. Ifs setup has never failed me. I’ve broken cvs and shafts etc and have it fixed in a day. I’ll regretfully if no other choice buy a live axle rig but for me it’s IFS all the way.
MadMatt 4WD please keep the videos going and I actually enjoy when I get the notifications from your page. Love your work mate and your honest straight up to the point work. Good luck and keep these videos coming. Love to see your opinion on the old NL Pajero if you ever do a video on that. Not many people actually like the pajeros but I love mine. If your ever in wa I’ll have to get you on a run with my crew. Would be an honour
Thanks mate. I can’t say I’m a fan of the paj but that really doesn’t matter. What matters is it’s good for you.
MadMatt 4WD is there a way of us supporting your channel so you can keep these videos going. Be it sending funds or buying products that you get something for also. I’m happy to support the channel
Solid axle everyday of the week. My Suzuki Sierra is 25 years old and has been off road all around Australia with not one axle issue. Great topic Matt 👍
I love the zooks
That is the best break down I’ve ever seen. You make valid points. I’ve been a veteran for many years and can honestly say your knowledge and explanation is amazing. Well done sir.
Thanks
Got a Swb mk2 pajero and have had zero problems with suspension.
Granted,,it’s all been unrated with Old man emu and Arb front and rear diff locks,,but still,,,before all this,,it was fantastic off road!
I do love this channel and all the advice and trucks on here.
Great little community of like minded people,,in it for the love of it!!!👍👍👍
Nothing wrong with the Paj.
This seriously was an absolutely great video. On so many levels.
Thanks for the video, Matt! Great explanation! I have a Jeep XJ with solid axles front and rear and I love how it works both on and off road. Yes, it's a bit "trucky" driving it on smoothly paved roads, but it's really nice off the roads because of that constant ground clearance. It's pretty much impossible for me to hit the bottom of the vehicle on the ground if the axle doesn't hit it first (barring some weird breakover situation). Also, the Dana 30 and 44 front axle in the Jeeps does not have CV joints at the ends (in the XJ and the Wranglers - not so with the Grand Cherokees). They have standard U-joints at the steering ends of the axles. This does require some additional lube and care, but generally, they are stronger than CV joints of similar size. I love watching your channel and was thrilled to see you work with Matt's Offroad Recovery earlier this year! Stay safe! Keep the shiny side up! Cheers!
Thanks Jason.
Such a good point about when you hit a bump how the solid axle keeps the same clearance
Yes not many understand that
Great explanation, i was scratching my head as to why the ineos Grenadier had chosen solid beam suspension. Now i understand more about the two systems
I’m glad I helped
My prefence is solid front axle and my daily is an LN106 HiLux, so leaf springs and solid axles all around.
However, I have driven a few other LN series IFS Hilux variants both on and off road and have noted the following differences:
Having the diff tucked up out of the way and a bashplate under it on the IFS means the front end is more likely to slide across the ground rather than plow into it like a solid axle's pumpin does when you bottom out
The solid axle version stays more level when crossing ruts at an angle as the extra travel and effect on the opposite wheel means one side doesn't drop in as much as an IFS one would
Ride and handling isn't great on either variant, though the IFS versions do corner better as they an anti rollbar in addition to any benefits the IFS gives
Wheel alignment is more easily adjusted on the IFS versions, so tends to be easier to knock out of whack, where it is more set and forget on a solid axle...
Overall capability is determined more by other factors such as tyres and lockers in many situations...
On a general note, I've also noticed that solid axles have a certain amount of passive steering inherent to the design, as the movement of the shackles on a leaf spring system, or the radius arms or equivalent on a coil system, pull the wheel back or forward depending on what point they are at in their range of travel....on IFS this variance is in camber, which in general seems to be more manageable in terms of handling....
Great comment
"The solid axle version stays more level when crossing ruts at an angle as the extra travel and effect on the opposite wheel means one side doesn't drop in as much as an IFS one would." This is a very important comment. I can take my SFA vehicle over an off-camber spot on a hill with little drama, but when I take my IFS vehicle over the same spot when one front wheel drops into the off-camber portion, the vehicle can come close to rolling. The most common solution to this in an IFS is to substantially stiffen the front springs so that the suspension acts more like an SFA--of course, the ride and highway handling are considerably less pleasant.
"So let's sit in the middle of a creek with a $5000 laptop, shall we?" Almost blew my mouthful of beer all over the keyboard with that one!
As an IT asset manager, I was clenched the entire video!
Nicely done, lots of very good information - thank you!
Ha ha ha. Yeah we had another plan without the laptop but it didn’t work.
Live axle is better for low speed off road.
IFS is better for high speed off road.
Obviously upgrades can be made for both, but that’s pretty much the basic rule.
I agree
Love how you explain it rather than going the long way round like most mad matt is on point right from the start you make learning a breeze
Why thank you for the kind words.
@@MadMatt4WD all good mate
My 1988 Hilux is independent, it works fine out in the California Desert, I don't do extreme rock crawling.... Excellent video, thank you
Glad to help. Defiantly horses for courses. I’d love to take one of my 4wds for a run in Johnson valley. I’ve been there a bunch as well as sand hollow. But not in my vehicles.
I love doing technical wheeling, rock crawls and the like, definitely solid axles the best way to go. Awesome video. Very well stated.
Thanks very much
I like how you don't talk too much. Someone should tell youtubers that the more they speak the harder they are to understand. Well done si
Thanks
Spot on. Ifs is popular because of ease of entry. But a solid-axle is far superior and stronger.
Yes I agree.
Great video! Only thing I think that wasn't mentioned but is more for the serious off roader is that the solid axle in the front greatly benefits from a locker since it's far easier for a wheel to come off the ground vs an ifs where as the ifs doesn't benefit much from it and it'd only add more stress on the cv joints
I don’t actually agree with that though. Both benefit from a locker and an ifs can handle a locker just fine so long as the driver understands how to use it correctly.
@@MadMatt4WD agree 100%. Also would say that a front locker in ifs is more important as they tend to do pretty impressive wheel lifts constantly and that shock load of a spinning tyre hitting the ground to a stop is what's going to break that cv joint pretty quickly. I've done 2 cv joints before like that and put a locker in and haven't broken a cv since.. could also be down to more careful driving as you get older too 😅👌
BRILLIANT, just BRILLIANT.
Thank You.
I learnt a LOT.
Glad to help.
Really a comprehensive analysis!
A traction comparison on crawling may be interesting too !
Good thought. Thanks
I own two 4WDs, an 80 series Landcruiser and an IFS Hilux, both have mild suspension upgrades, and I can say without a doubt that the live axle Landcruiser is a far more capable vehicle on bad gravel roads and going slow through difficult obstacles. The IFS is a compromise, there is no compromise with coil sprung live axle vehicles. The Hilux is still a great vehicle, I just cant expect it to keep up with the Landcruiser.
I’d agree with that
I just found your channel today, and I love the way you position the vehicles between action shots! Great information too!
Welcome aboard!
Excellent explanation Matt!! Thank you for sharing!
BTW - Found your channel after viewing your partner video with Matt's Off-Road Recovery! Keep up the great work!
Thanks Dave. Enjoy your stay
Hey, me too!!
@@Rusted_Link Yes you can enjoy your stay too. :) LOL
Same here
Live axle = live action
Great video! I think if you are 70% city and 30% offroad go IFS. If the opposite go solid axles.
I wheel a long travel Xterra (think of it as a cheaper cousin to the Patrol in the US and it has IFS/Solid rear) and it's been fine for me but now I'm moving on to an 80series LC and I agree with your points. The IFS handles better on road and has more comfort but I've broken multiple IFS pieces offroad. Reliability is important to me and that generally is where a solid axle shines.
Cool
Matt... A very fair assessment of a solid axle and an IFS. I agree totally with your pros/cons points made. Well done! My PowerWagon, with its proprietary "Articulink" solid front and rear axles, breaks the basic concept that this type of suspension system is less comfortable on and off-road. The PowerWagon completely rides like a Lexus on the highway and is very smooth when riding at faster speeds on corrugations off-road. My Jeep JK and TJ coil sprung solid axle vehicles are more representative of a rougher ride on the highway than an IFS vehicle.
Thanks Robert. It means a lot coming from you. I think the key is for people to use this information to buy the vehicle that best suits them.
Watched this AGAIN. LOVED LOVED LOVED it.
WELL done Matt.
10+/10 !!!
Thanks mate appreciate the support.
That B roll in the video is really great and proves the points you made!
Thanks.
Really good explanation. I had most of that in my head previously. But it’s helpful to have it confirmed by an expert 👍. Our MU-X is ute based, IFS front, solid rear. Not perfect, but it came out on top for our requirements. One of these was we could buy it via lease. Right now there are very limited options for solid front from new (or near new).
Our plan right now is the minimum to go 95% of places. Quality off-road AT tyres, snorkel, bash plates, recovery points and gear, hand winch, roof rack and recovery boards. We are also considering a $600 front auto-locker. We’ve actually done quite a bit of off-roading with a stock setup. So long as the tracks are dry and the tyres low it’s been awesome 😀
With careful driving and track selection, we feel we can avoid the following, at least initially: Bull bar, rock sliders, electric winch, suspension lift, engine mods.
Interested to hear experienced thoughts.
Mate I think you have a good understanding of your needs and are doing a good job of meeting them. Well done.
This seemed like a very unbiased comparison Thank you!
I do try
Congratulations! For almost the first time in any off-road articles or videos that I've seen, you accurately described the ground clearance issues with an IFS. I own 4WDs with IFS and SFA suspensions. For hard off-road use, I greatly prefer an SFA front suspension. Sadly, here in states, the only new vehicles available with SFA are heavy duty pickups and the Jeep Wrangler/Gladiator. Sadly, the Jeeps have some pretty serious reliability issues aside from the SFA.
Thanks
Thanks
Doesnt sound like you know what you’re talking about. Jeeps are pretty reliable, it’s just an outdated stereotype
I bought my 93 Yota pickup 14 years ago. I needed a pickup for work and I knew Toyota had a good reputation. The IFS is very nice for all the freeway driving I've done over the years. However, anytime I have to cross a ditch or wash diagonally, the IFS flexes out and I'm left teetering with no drive. I cured this by installing a rear air locker, but I've watched stock Jeep Cherokees drive through the same obstacles with no issue.
So, like you said, solid axles are the way to go if you're doing anything more than a dirt mountain road.
Yes.
@Artemio Medina not all ditches and drainages cross the road perpendicularly, so you have to cross at an angle. If you have open front and rear diffs when you teeter, the 2 wheels that are dangling in the air will spin and no drive will be applied to the 2 wheels left on the ground. At that point you're stuck unless you can lock one or both differentials to apply power to the ground.
@Artemio Medina There's always constant drive to the rear whether in 4WD or 2WD.
@Artemio Medina the center lock forces power to front and rear yes, without lockers in the differential, power goes to the tire with least resistance, ie the one in the air
For hard core off-roading solid axle is always the way to go for strength and reliability.
For high speed bumps and stuff, prerunner style independent takes the bumps better.
Yep
Great support in the background from the kookaburras...
Yeah aren't they great
Love seeing the air intake placed high enough to ensure that the driver drowns before the vehicle.
At the end of the day, it's the vehicle that matters. 😀
You get it. :)
Update:. Excellent comparison 👍👍
I switched from a solid axle to IFS. While I don't regret it for other reasons, I'd prefer to have the solid axle back disregarding all else.
I switched from a Jeep XJ to a Toyota Tacoma. The only things I really miss from the driving experience are the solid axle and a real shifter for the transfer case. I have always been envious of the Toyota selection (or 4WD selection in general even) the rest of the world outside of North America gets.
Solid axle any day of the week, cv's are too delicate for where I go. Been there and won't go back.
cool
you do realise the front axle on your 4wd has a cv regardless of being solid or ifs?
Wish they made more these days.... Only the stiff as a board 70 series...
@@MrParker300 yes but no exposed cv boot to puncture and I don't need to worry about loading them in extended positions
@@MrParker300 Point is they're not as susceptible to damage
i love the way you explained the whole comparison. simply......NICE. 👌👌
Glad it was helpful!
Sweet spot. Will have too visit
Thanks for giving us the ups and downs of the IFS. Glad you didn’t drop your laptop
Keep up the good work Matt.
Thanks mate
Awesome content as always Matt!
My 2c from IFS experience.
In terms of KUN Hilux and PX Ranger vehicles the genuine CV’s are stronger and more reliable then their aftermarket counterparts. I use genuine 2nd hand CV’s from all four x 4. Many people have had a hard time with aftermarket CV’s. A good quality diff drop will help with re-aligning geometry and de-stressing CV’s with a lift.
But let’s be honest solid axle is king anything else is a compromise 😉
Interesting Thomas. I’ve only had one ifs 4wd and it was rubbish in every way. It broke everything. I’ve always gone to the terrain tamer cvs and had a good run with them. As in never blown one without it being well worn.
Well I can’t say I’ve ever tried TT but GSP, Repco etc 🤢 don’t last more than a few months. Genuine last years. Then the inferior aftermarket go and make longer cv’s for lifted vehicles which just bind up and pop. Poor unsuspecting people think they’re doing the right thing.
Repco and the like do not make a good cv.
I own a 105, owned a troopy, spent a lot of time in other live axle 4wd's, on a recent trip i jumped into a D40 navara and was shocked at how much more comfortable it was at speed over the rough stuff.
Interesting the difference a good suspension makes. My 105 was way better than the hilux in this video.
@@MadMatt4WD we were doing the Baxter Cliffs in WA, lots of limestone, very rough in the troopy, we couldn't keep up with the Navs.
Looking forward to this! My'18 RAM 1500 is ifs.
Never had issues, just pick better lines 👍👍
Lake Havasu-
Absolutely.
Great Video MadMatt!! I daily drive my 1985 Toyota 4runner Sr5 5 speed on 35's with 5:29 gearing front and rear, rear brakes converted from drum to discs. and have been using ethanol free gasoline and it 'gets 23mpg. unbelievable to why ethanol is even being used!!
Nice one. I love the low ratio.
Canadian here, any of you Aussies run long travel kits on your ifs trucks? Lots of fun at high speeds but you can keep 4x4 by getting extended cv axles, and control arms which improves your angles.
Yes we do but only on trailer pigs
@@MadMatt4WD Not road legal?
yeah our laws are very restrictive.
👍👍 you are absolutely correct. time to change for a solid. thanks for the info ,mate
I’m glad I could help
I think you've nailed it for the most part. My Chev Silverado 3500 has IFS in the front and I have a 4.5" lift. However, the CVs still sit perfectly level/flat at rest due to the BDS kit incorporating a full diff drop of 4.5" too.
Same thing with my previous vehicle; a 2006 100 Series 1HD-FTE, in which I had a 3" lift with diff drop to keep the geometry just right.
My days of hard wheelin' are behind me and at 65 I'm looking for more comfort and power than offroad capability.
Like you said....horses for courses.
Fantastic. My hard wheeling days are in front of me at 50. Never to old to be young I say.
Thank you so much! have been looking everywhere for the answer to the question posed at start of video
Had an interesting experience with a 200 series owner towing a 2.5 ton caravan. He said that his previous 3 Pajeros towed better than the 200, obviously ignoring the power/torque difference. He added that the Pajero rig was much more stable under normal driving conditions and was not referring to off road conditions.
That’s interesting.
I own a 2002 Gen 3 NM Pajero, this is the first of the IFS/IRS range with the Gen 1 & 2 being Solid rear with IFS and the Gen 3 & 4 being Independent all around. Personally I love the Pajero for its ride and handling both on and off road. I dont do large ruts and hill climbs but am not afraid to put a wheel in the air. Also I dont drive flat out at harder obstacles although there have been times Ive hit a wash out across a road a bit too hard. So far all Ive had to do suspension wise is replace the shocks and springs because they were old and worn, it is an 18 year old 4x4 after all. Ive had no issues with CV joints or any other part of my suspension/axel set up. I do have repairs to do on my power steering and have had to replace hubs but again it is an 18 year old 4x4 and it has been used as a 4x4 through mud, sand, dirt etc.
Nice one.
Fantastic video! Really filled in a lot of gaps for me. Most of my off road is hunting here in Wyoming in my 1500 Silverado 4x4, which has independent front suspension.
Glad to help
Absolutely fantastic but realistic explanation.
Thanks
Love the segment mate no matter how many times something like this is explained it's still good knowledge to know even with the new cars and all the technology that comes with it nothing wrong with a refresha
Cheers
@@MadMatt4WD 👍
Dealing with this now. IFS on my truck, which I thought was plenty strong enough for my relatively light use, but now I've got a bent control arm and damned if I know how or when it happened.
Look into a long travel kit!
bro get a Durango they dont brake th-cam.com/video/eYzKFf_ZqrE/w-d-xo.html
I also can’t visit the dealership because i bought it from a car importer here in the Philippines and they just won’t service cars bought from overseas. Thanks Matt! 🙏🏼
🤟
The only way to truly test the comfort comparison would be a 100 series verses the 105 with the same suspension as far as possible.
Interesting to see the new kid on the block, the Grenadier has gone for two solid axles, the right decision in my opinion.
Yes I think that would be the best way to do it but both vehicles need to be very similar in weight and setup.
Look up: Dana 44 TTB IFS LSD front axle drives through all terrains with 33" tires.
Yep, totally on board with that Matt. I run the LR Discovery 3 which runs on Air. Woooosh, 👍😀🇦🇺
Nice
Nick, there is a lot said about reliability of the Disco 3 - what's your experience? (I really like these cars and love the air suspension. For me, its a toss up between the D3 and the Touareg 4XMotion also with air suspension)
Benny the air suspension I run is airbag man coil bags. Easy install into the coil springs if you don’t run coil over shockies. Since putting the airbags in my Pajero the car is so much better with the weight I carry in my rig. I’m fully setup for touring with the draws, fridge, tools etc I’ll never look back from the helper air bags. One of the best investments I’ve ever made.
Excellent video Matt. I totally agree with your comparison and your opinion.
Thanks Jeff. This is youtube you shouldn’t agree with me. You should assassinate my whole being. 😂😂😂
Nice video. Just to add, the IFS vehicles have a lower center of gravity because the engine can be positioned lower than in the front solid axle vehicle, which needs the engine in upper position to allow the movement of the axle.
The IFS are generally better copying the terrain at “high speed” than the solid axle vehicles, this is because the less unsprung masses, the independent movement of each wheel and because the wheels move up down without changing the caster which allows better grip and handling, and because the lower COG. That’s why the rally raid cars are at least IFS if not full independent suspension.
But for passing obstacles the solid axles are better because of the much bigger wheel travel (which lets more tire contact and so more traction), but the solid axles transmits more movement to the car body, which added to the other differences makes the solid axle vehicles less suited for high speed off-road.
Each solution has its strong points.
Honestly I think the vehicles with IFS and rear solid axle has the best compromise between both designs, that’s good enough for obstacles as the rear solid axles flex a lot to provide traction, and good enough to off roading “fast” thanks to the benefits of the IFS design. Of course this design is not the best for fast off-road and it’s neither the best for big obstacles, but good enough for both scenarios
Love the comment about the engine. I hadn’t considered that till now. Thanks
Not necessarily true about center of gravity. The design of the vehicle has a lot to do with center of gravity. My XJ Cherokee (SFA) with a 3" lift has a way lower center of gravity than my Jeep KJ (Liberty) with IFS that also has a 3" lift (and almost 2" less ground clearance). Also, as my example illustrates, and IFS vehicle may require a "taller" lift to achieve the same ground clearance as an SFA vehicle, destroying the IFS center-of-gravity advantage of the IFS vehicle.
But I think the problem is IFS vehicles are way tippier than solid axle vehicles on trails. Much easier to flip an IFS rig on a trail that requires suspension travel
@@rockymountainjazzfan1822 of course that it depends on the vehicle design. But the case of your cars doesn’t make it true for all the cars. Without think on lifts, the independent suspensions allows designs with lower CG. But it doesn’t mean that all the IFS cars has lower CG.
Regarding the ground clearance, usually independent suspension provides higher one, however it’s variable with the movement of the wheels as the lowest point is on the frame of the car. In the other hand the SA usually has lower clearance but it’s constant as the lower point of the axles moves up with the wheels, as the lower point is on the axle. Always talking about keeping same wheel size.
Excellent explanations sir, this video answered all of my questions. Thanks 👍
You are welcome
I’ve been to TJ’s a couple of times now, my 80 series loves it. When going off road, your not looking for comfort, your looking for the ability. I’d like to see comparison in the 100 series with live and independent suspension on the tracks but having same springs and shocks.
Why didn’t you compare 105 to and 100 series? Be more of a comparison??
Yes that would be a good comparison. Would need to very near identical modified vehicles though. I’m sure it could be done.
MadMatt 4WD I’m sure you could find a suspension business that would help out fitting the same type of spring rate and shocks to do a comparison.
I wish I was aware of IFS and solid axel 4wd before purchasing my 1st 4wd. I ended up getting a NP Pajero which is IFS front and rear. I now relizes for the type of 4wd I like a solid axel 4wd would be ideal. My Pajero now has a 2 inch lift 33s and an Xrox bar. Am keen to do more testing on some tough tracks to see how it goes but thinking of selling to purchase a solid axel. Seems they will be a thing of the past..
Although the Paj is a capable vehicle you will love the Live axle for harder offroad use.
Great video Matt. Really explains it well.
Pleasure.
thank you for detail video
Isuzu truck nps75 have all sold axe with leaf suspension front and rear 4x4 crew cab
Pleasure. I had the Mitsubishi Canter some years ago.
I’m a bronco guy so I’m ifs, but what I’m hoping is that enough manufacturers competing will bring about innovation. IFS with better articulation or solid axle with better road manners.
That would be good but I doubt it. Modern cars are horrendously boring.
Hi Matt,. I will start off by saying I'm a solid axle guy. I have owned vehicles with both systems, so I have experience with lifting both and pros and cons. Btw our US solid axles have U joints up front vs CVs. In my opinion it boils down that the solid axle is stronger and easier to lift but is a little wallowy on road, whereas the IFS is smoother on road but weaker and harder/ more expensive to properly lift. In particular the steering tie rods and CVs the weak points. The knuckle side ball joints take a severe beating as well, especially on lifted vehicles with large tires. I have 2 other pros to the solid axle that are oft over looked. 1) when the left wheel goes up over a boulder for instance, the right wheel side of the axle gets pushed down into the rut due the leverage/fulcrum physics improving traction through both wheels, whereas an IFS tends to lift the opposite wheel.2) a solid axle vehicle can actually improve clearance by taking a wheel directly over an obstacle raising the axle further vs avoiding the obstacle with the wheel...this comes in handy sometimes so long as you are properly aired down and have tough tires to take on the obstacle. A wise man once told me there is no more better clearance than under you tire....think about that a bit😀. That said I've witnessed a Toyota Tundra with a greatly upgraded suspension and swaybar removed was very impressive on the trail.
You make some great points. Thanks.
@@MadMatt4WD one other thing Matt, some guys in the western US guage a 4WD that can bash thought open desert areas at high speed...most likely with a Raptor with IFS. Take a look at some videos of Thuren tuned Ram 2500s with solid axles running across the sand whoops. Proof that if you tune the shocks right you can make a solid axle truck float over the dunes as well.
I’ve been to king of the hammers the last two years and see the different u4 vehicles. Both systems can go well.
Congratulations Matt. Another well explained video. Well done.
Thanks Peter. It’s such a big subject to try and cover in the time we have. I felt there was more needed to be said
MadMatt 4WD
I saw a video of a person crossing a river once, and he filmed the different way IFS and live axles handled the different levels. The camera was focused on the ifs looking towards the centre of the car. Interesting. He was saying the you have more possibilities to get hung-up in a river with ifs than live and after seeing his video I believe it, and that’s one place I don’t want to get stuck.
Interesting
Good comparo, that background noise was entertaining though! Aus is wild!
The Australian wildlife is interesting.
If you want a Wrangler with independent suspension, get the Cherokee Trailhawk.
There aren't that many fully independent suspension vehicles with a locker. I can barely think of any that aren't range Rover.
Which type of suspension is more comfortable on corrugated outback roads, like Tassie’s west coast?
Coil springs are the most comfortable
I have a Tacoma Off Road in the US. Would be cool if we had the option to select a solid front axle. Guess it would just cost too much to manufacture two different lines of vehicles.
Yeah some of our preferences don’t get met
Great video as always Matt I must say I currently have a 2013 dmax with all the usual fruit and it's on 33s and it's my daily. It's also my first 4wd I've evey owned and after 6 years of going off road and finding what I do and don't like.
I've decided to come over to a 105 series landcruiser so I can do more of that slow flexie 4wding witch I really like and the simplicity of the soild axle is very intuitive too me I'll keep the dmax for on road and family camping and the 105 series landcruiser will be the weekend weapon I'm actually picking it up on Wednesday next week
Well done. I love the 105
@@MadMatt4WD yea plan on running some maxxis razor M/T 33s on a 2inch lift start there anyway and go from there I live in lithgow so awesome tracks to test on
Sir tell me about opportunity after B.tech as a mechanical engineer
Great coverage of the topic Matt. Lets us make an informed decision to match our requirements - as you point out. Thanks.
Thanks
Comfort also comes back to wheel base.
What rides better? Your 105 Landcruiser or Suzuki Jimny ? Both live axle
Well that's one factor. In my case, we should use the 105 or the Bundera :)
@@MadMatt4WD ya true, how could I forget the Bundy.
The further apart the wheels the smother the ride, but then smaller the ramp over angle.
Just most systems in a vehicle, there's more to it than a few parts.
@@Matthew_Australia my comments on wheel base was based on MadMatt's comment about the 105 being smother than the Hilux.
If you want all things to equal as best as possible you should compare a 100 and a 105. Same vehicle just IFS or Solid front.
Was just adding to the conversation yes another factor, but a factor that changes the ride quality more than suspension system.
I believe I alluded to them at in the video.
What about IFS, IMS and IRS suspension of Pinzgauer. Has no inner CV joint. And IFS CV joints only pivot while steering.
Ifs cvs work work with suspension and steering.
You didn't mention the advantage of traction on the ISS. Ag tractors have been calling attention to that for some time. The tires are always flat on the surface.
Yes but in an offroad situation I don't think that will have a big bearing due to the surface always changing shape. For tractors for sure it would be a factor. Also airing down allows the tyre to form to the surface.
@@MadMatt4WD You are correct on that point. Keep the information coming.
Always wondered about this so thanks for this simple explanation,
🤟
Wild to think that the center of the vehicle compresses due to the independent suspension.
Yes. Watch for it when you see one Offroad.
@@MadMatt4WD I got my mom doing foot exercises to heal a bone spur on the top of her foot! I explain by using a rolling spike thing - it stretches the bottom arch to reverse the compression on the top of her foot. I tell her that is the root cause of the bone spur. It is working. haha.
Thoughts on TTB? Thats what I decided on for my build. I might be biased but seems to me it has most of the advantages of both IFS and solid axle ;) .
And if you endup with dana 50 ttb out of a 3/4 ton truck, but on coils....
I've owned a couple of TTB vehicles. Depending on how you look at it, TTB is either combination of the best features of SFA and IFS, or a combination of the worst features of both. TTB is more rugged than IFS, but has more unsprung weight than an IFS. TTB handles better on the highway than an SFA, but worse than an IFS. TTB is easier to lift than an IFS, but more difficult to lift than an SFA. TTBs can be difficult to keep aligned properly, compared to either an IFS or SFA (my TTB vehicles always wore the front tires excessively, even when properly aligned--a very common complaint about TTB suspensions). TTB can suffer like an IFS with decreased center ground clearance when the suspension goes into compression. About the only solution (as it is with an IFS) is to stiffen the springs sufficiently to decrease the deflection, but that also hurts ride quality (just as it does in an IFS when the springs are stiffened).
@@rockymountainjazzfan1822 Wow I posted this 4 weeks ago and I'm STILL working on this front end haha. Almost got it done, I'll let you know how a dana 50 on coils rides eventually haha.
At my 66 years old I had both and by far I will prefer IFS. If one axle break IFS easy to fix, don’t have deal with oil leaks as the solid axle, smooth freeway suspension, easy maintenance than solid axle I had rebuilt a couple solid axle and have way many parts than IFS now if you gonna do rock crawling yes solid axle it’s the way to go but most of the peoples do more overlanding than rock crawling. My opinion thanks
I think your correct for your application.
thank you this is very valuable advice
Glad to help
Thanks Matt, another good vid.
To be fair I've never heard of anyone hitting the bash plate while travelling at speed in an IFS vehicle. Rock climbing maybe, but while driving? Never heard of it happening.
I think the consumer needs to weigh up a more comfort ride verses less likely to break something while doing tough tracks. That should come down to how often you wheel
Thanks mate. Defiantly a case of making sure a person buys the right vehicle for the way they use it. The most common place to see the bash plate getting hit is in a deep rutted track where the suspension is cycling due to bumps, or on sand at the base of a dune as they start to climb. You can see the evidence of it happening when you follow a IFS vehicle and you'll see a flat scrape mark between the wheels.
This is about off-roading performance, the video makes it very clear.
Hi Matt I found your video very helpful. Would you think itt would be possible to swap the front IFS axle on a 10O series land cruiser to a solid axle?
Not without significant work.
The most obvious direct comparison would be between a standard 100 series vs a standard 105 series.....the thing I love about the 105 is it's essentially a continuation of the awesome 80 series.....yeah I'm biased because I have an 80 😊
Yeah I hear ya
It also depends on your budget and how much you intend using it for everyday driving.
Absolutely.
Some crazy sounding animals there
Ha ha
Beam suspension isn't a solid axle...have to look at a vehicle like an early 90's American Ford Ranger...that is a beam suspension. Kinda odd, but has advantages. Tougher than IFS, at any rate. And better articulation, though not as good as a solid axle.
Also? Live axle means there's no disconnect. In my 2003 American Ranger, there is no disconnect from the hub. The axle shafts and differential both spin even without power to the front end (as long as the vehicle is moving...obviously). Thus "Live".
Great video! I do like my IFS for Overlanding...she sees a LOT of highway/Interstate miles, but can still do off road without too much fuss. It's all trade-offs, as you pointed out.
I think theres some international terminology differences Re: beam axle. When I was at collage in Australia that's what we were taught to call them.
I disagree with your point 2 though. Have a look at this from a quick google search. BUT at the end of the day we all know what I'm trying to convey so I'm certainly not trying to prove anything here. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beam_axle
Thanks for the encouragement. I'm stuck with live vehicles, Every time I drive IFS i'm personally underwhelmed.
I have own a Hilux too, it's year 2001 truck. It's feel more comfortable when I went to off-road. But, the cost to buy the spare parts were more expensive than live axle because my hilux has upper and lover arm ball joints, lower arm bushes. so, that was the cons
Great points.
Nice video, a real school for all.
Regards and best wishes from Copiapó, Chile.
thanks I was wondering the difference.
Glad I could help!
Another excellent video. Keep up this level of content and it will continue to be addictive and make me down tools whenever a new one comes up haha.
Gee thanks for the encouragement.
Did you have the Ford twin I Beam/traction beams in Australia? Best of both worlds.
There are a few around but not common.
That was a great explanation!
Thanks
How about a ifs system on a stock heavy duty truck? Vrs solid?
The principles are still the same.