It was specifically in the context of not wanting X-Wing to be a tower defence game, in reference to the large ship self-bumping fortresses that used to be possible under the old bumping rules. A lot of what they were trying to correct were rules they saw as incentivising behaviour they didn't think was in the spirit of the game. YMMV on exactly how well or otherwise that worked, but I definitely think they had plans for X-Wing in a way they didn't for Armada.
It was probably better AMG sunset Armada in its existing form. They have a completely different mindset that doesn't work for a starship combat game. However this doesn't clear AMG of poorly handling the game systems they were given. X-Wing given the AMG treatment killed it kong before the official announcement.
Same thing we've all been thinking for a while now. It's not a hot take, it's reality. AMG didn't drop the ball, they boxed it up, shipped it to Nambia, it was returned, they left it in the garage and then one day opened it only to find it wasn't even the original ball they sent out. In short; They never cared, we already knew they'd kill the game.
Ahhh... its truly the modern world to say "thank you for not destroying my favorite thing by ignoring it." I feel like that is a somewhat common refrain these days.
I got my Star Trek into the Unknown. Played it with my father yesterday. It is rules heavy, but we are committed to this game! It is SO THEMATIC! It felt like we were having our own story unfolding.
Never thought of it as “them dropping it means they can’t efff it up.” Huh. Still not enough for me to forgive the lack of reprints and outright lies about it but still….interesting thought
100% agree with your take. A lot of other games even get ruined from one edition to the next, let alone a switch of companies. It certainly could have been worse!
Into the Unknown really does lay bare the fallacy of 'increasing costs' as an excuse. I'm actually shocked how much you get from Unknown comparatively to Armada. And that core set also included printed acrylic tools right? That's actually a TON of value for a bargain price. I might actually pick it up, though the demo at last adepticon didn't really impress. I gotta agree they really did the best thing by not trying. The one time they jumped in and tried that busted Anakin was quite the indicator of the quality we could have expected.
Only reason I convienced myself to get into another miniature hobby game - IT WAS PUT TOGETHER and WAS PRE-PAINTED. Who has time to spend hours upon hours to assemble and paint etc.. when I want to play.
Amen! Real life sucks and always gets in the way. When i get free time, i just want to hang with friends and play the game. I don't want to paint alone. I don't want to bring a painting studio to the FLGS.
Ideal for non modelling wargamers that want their pieces asap on the table and u do actually pay premium for it. I'm modeller first and love building and painting but that is a personal choice.
AMG have an entirely different style of game in mind. Even the changes they have made to Legion are questionable to me, I really hate the gimicky stuff they have been adding like the Marksman cards that deal unblockable damage or how they compeltely changed how things like transport, grenades and so one work.
I agree! I’ve played legion since 2019 and the game has progressively gotten worse after the fired Luke Eddy. I’m done giving AMG money. I’ll still play legion sometimes. I’m just not buying anything new.
Armada only dies if we let it. There is already a pretty large selection of fan made ships out there to keep the fans happy. I own a few myself and they look great mixed in with my fleets. One thing that I wished was done was official bases for Imperial versions of the Nebulon B and CR Corvettes, as well as any other ship used by both sides.
I agree with you. Given their business mentality, they luckily did minimal damage to our game. And by our game, I mean it was never their game in the first place because they never cared for it. So in a weird way, we got lucky 😅
I agree. Better to have an unbroken armada than watch AMG break and ruin another game. Everytime I hear ol Will running his mouth, I am reminded what a subpar company AMG is
Given the design principles in MCP and Shatterpoint (and now Legion) that emphasizes area control, I wonder if they (correctly) realized that Armada wasn't going to be able to be successfully changed/broken to accommodate that kind of objective play and thus left it on the back-burner. By the end of 2020, it was clear that they didn't really have any good ideas, especially after the reaction to their tinkering with X-Wing, and so they moved to shutter production. RR1 and 2 could just be the minimal effort they were contractually obligated to release to keep the SW license. But, to your main point: the Star Trek Into the Unknown ships are rather inconvenient counter-evidence to AMG's claims that pre-painted ships are too expensive these days.
Could we get a video on how to Continue playing X-Wing, outside of tournaments? If I wanted to just play some games with friends, whats the best way to go about it?
I suppose it's possible that the Star Wars licence for Armada was 5x the cost of the Star Trek licence, but I'm not convinced. Unfortunately, the way it has gone down with Armada, X-Wing and Legion has put me off miniature games almost completely - it's back to board games I think.
The general summary of this video sounds like AMG is bad at being a wargaming tabletop company and deliberately chose to neglect wargaming property which they requested to own in the first place. I'm really not sure how anyone should or can feel sorry for AMG.
Somewhere there's an AMG exec scribbling down all your "well, they could have made Armada even worse by doing..." and cackling with grinchy glee that there's still time to get that in the 'October' update.
I stopped supporting AMG games a while ago. I moved onto Star Trek Alliance and Star Trek Into the Unknown. When I do play Legion or X-wing I like to play with older rules at the kitchen table and don't participate in any official event.
Asmodee being allowed to violate anti-trust/monopoly/market influence laws and regulations has been terrible for the hobby. They've driven up prices and provided worse games at the same time.
It was apparent from the very start they had no interest in the gameplay we all enjoyed and loved. Makes me sad as I still love Armada and play it with my family!
What i hate most about amg era of star wars games is that they feel more catered to the competitive scene. Like in legion 2.0 you score objectives per turn, your objectives and deployments are together now, and they even have a system where you can max score and the game is over, which to me is asking for people to completely tailor lists to win that way. 1.0 legions system had you usually score at the very end so you had to fight out the entire game to see who wins at the end. And they had the added bonus of different deployments, objectives and conditions. Before the rules were made for playing a game, now they’re made for trying to win a game
Both games had such potential but just were not supported enough which put off a lot of players as stock levels were always so poor it was a massive missed potential by them as who does not want Star Wars space battles! They just did not understand what fans wanted
Star Trek always seemed to be a less expensive franchise than Star Wars, even more so since Disney purchased Lucas Arts. I’m just personally not a fan of AMG’s take on Legion, and very much don’t like their price increases. My collection is frozen as is and I’ll continue playing with my friends under the FFG rules. The fact that I can pick up Into the Unknown and play a ready to play game out of the box for less than the cost of one sides’ army in Legion (that would still need assembly and painting) is crazy! I’ve switched over to Flames of War for my hobby building now. It’s not cheap but it’s not as expensive as Legion!
My only issue with Star Trek into unknown is that its Star Trek / yeah watched movie and some of series stuff . But Star Wars would be my love. Why I shifted to legion and SWU. I hope Armada gets picked up and comes back . I prefer the format as with legion I find myself caught between playing and painting so want to play my unpainted stuff as I want it too look good. This is just my personnel preference . Why armada worked for me. Buy the ships and you play.
Honestly, I think they should have moved Armada to being a system, rather than a Star Wars game. Years and years ago I made mock ups for what a Star Trek and Halo expansion. Star Trek would have fewer Hull Zones but higher shields, and Halo would have no shields but twice the Hull (or more) of their Star Wars equivalents. It likely would have been a licensing nightmare, but if Attack-Tiks could do it in 2005 why couldn't AMG do it in 2024? It would easily have doubled the profits of the game; a friend of mine wasn't interested in the Star Wars ships, but would have bought every single Enterprise, I own every Imperial Ship but I'd have bought 10 Halo ships without hesitation, ect ect
Loved this game. I wish they would finish the Clone Wars stuff, even though I never bought any of it, as I stopped playing when I got heavily into Legion and moved to town with new players
As a long time X wing player (started early 1.0) I honestly liked the addition of the Objectives into the game, specifically the 2nd iteration. I didnt like the points change though and would rather they figured a way to adapt ship costs into VP and keep the 200 point squadron build.
Well, Crabbok has gone insane. Armada and X-wing were completely ruined by AMG and stock of either has been impossible to get since before they announced it was forever dead. Nothing about it was good and just killing them off instead of handing them off again is the absolute worst decision ever. Zero care. All of the games they make are utterly awful, Shatterpoint was immensely disappointing. I think Legions end is also neigh.
Having watched a few videos on the mechanic. The game play actually looks very straightforward but presented in a very convoluted way. I will happily try it out.
Looking at how "well" AMG treated X-wing it's probably best they had any actual progress with Armada. Heck were STILL waiting on that final points / rules update that was supposed to come out end of Fall.
I have to politely disagree. Armada and X-Wing still were very popular (X-Wing especially). And all we got for Armada was a couple of reprints. Ships like the Venator and Hammerheads were almost always out of stock and thanks to that are ludicrously priced on the after market. They clearly never cared about the game and I think it shows.
@@Crabbok That you said AMG treated Armada very well lol. I just think that the past 4 years of zero new products and only two, online only Rapid Reinforcement cards speak for themselves. The failure to keep up with reprint I will also not forgive, it's because of their failure that I'll never be able to afford an official Venator or Hammerhead expansion, and then there are those less fortunate than me who will never get an Arquitens, Quasar or Gladiator. Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer Armada go out before a massive rules overhaul that could split the fan base like X-Wing had. But the failure with reprints, radio silence and AMG employees shutting down numerous fans during interviews about updates for Armada just left a bad taste in everybody's mouth. But as much as I dislike AMG for Armada/X-Wing, Asmodee are the true villains here for culling FFG and throwing these games at AMG when they never wanted them to begin with. All to account for their debt with that Embracer Group merger (I'm not super familiar with the details but that's what I understood happened, plus COVID killing supply chains. Thanks for responding to my comment!
Ok the reprints portion I can certainly understand. But yeah if they had done more, my fear is that it would have resulted in a rules overhaul that would have been far worse. More reprints though would have been excellent.
Interesting take and your argument makes sense. We can blame AMG for abandonment of successful games but Asmodee needs to take some blame too - to give a new start-up established games without the resources and people needed to continue developing and supporting them was a mistake. Ultimately Lucasfilm and Disney signed off on this use/misuse of their IP which may show how gamers are just another revenue stream for them
I do still like armada buy I think your right that they did right by not redesigning the game. I wish they did add the donut for cis even if it was smaller.
Because the Republic/Separatists came out right before shutdown, I would think that FFG had a roadmap for future releases. How difficult would it have been for AMG to just follow that and declare the game done at a certain point?
Good take, Xwing 1.0 was killed by sloppy non vetted ships to always chasing a new overpowered meta (punisher 1.0). I always appreciated the slower release schedule of Armada and less errors.
I appreciate the video, as the rest of your videos. Over the last two years, I have acquired a couple reb/imp core sets plus a handful of reb and imp expansions. Gonna play it with a buddy this week for the first time. Super excited! I've been using Ryan King's fleet Builder to help in setting fleets for the both us. This video was basically academic for me, but I do appreciate the take from a veteran player. And agree, though I can only discuss this game academically at this point, that game titled Star wars Armada should at least be primarily about fleet combat. Some of the best moments in the Star wars saga are the amazing space battles with all those memorable characters. The company apparently did not give a womprats rear end about that.
I don't disagree, leaving the 'official' game intact is the best case scenario for Armada. I've only played Armada a handful of times, I am not sure if the game suffered from the same issues X-Wing did (fortressing (in a corner), points fortressing, massive bids...etc...). There is no denying that X-Wing's player base suffered with the changes they made, but many were needed. I don't doubt that there were more reasons that were never openly discussed as to why ship production for X-Wing\Armada was never even attempted under AMG. I really like you bringing in Wiz Kid's new game in the mix showcasing that it is possible still in a post COVID world to have fully assembled and painted models sold for reasonable prices. I am sure it is a bit more complex than what it seems, but it does show that their main reason of production costs vs reasonable msrp was partially untrue. Merry X-Mas and have a safe Holiday period!
Hard disagree on AMG not wanting units to be killed. Legion 2.6 is the most killy version of the game. MCP is notorious for characters getting eliminated after activating once or less. If anything about AMG killed Armada, it was the mindset that TT games need to include models to build and paint, and Asmodee being unwilling to fund dedicated staff to manage what were essentially different product lines in X-Wing and Armada. If you want to direct any hatred at these games ending, all the blame goes to Asmodee and corporate greed
Asmodee certainly has it's share, but let me ask you - have you ever stopped to wonder why Asmodee decided to take 3 of the most popular games in the world and relocate them under a studio that had only 1 game? Instead of doing it the other way around?
Most likely consolidation. Fantasy flight games does board games and atomic mass games does hobby games Armada may have started as a board game meets war game type of product but when you look at the way it became popular it became more akin to a typical war game which is also a hobby game. It's not out of the realm of possibility that Asmodee wanted it to become as popular as some of the other games on the market and so they wanted to shift it to a team that they felt would better shepherd it. I think that AMG wanted to keep the products going but you have to take into account the amount of debt that was put on them and the fact that it seems they weren't allowed to get the teams to further develop these games. And as for the developers that were let go from fantasy flight when all of this was shifted to AMG that was most likely a decision on Asmodee's part because instead of having the team spread out across the country they most likely wanted it in house in office.@@Crabbok
I believe some months back, the Armada Podcast had an episode on how AMG leadership petitioned Asmodee to transfer the Star Wars miniature license to them, claiming to be the miniature company, so they could develop and produce a MCP-like Star Wars game (ShatterPoint). If i remember the episode correctly, the managers at amg lied to Asmodee when they stated that they could support ffg's games since they had no intention of actually continuing development of Armada and X-Wing at the very least.
@@matthewmayton1845all conjecture. More likely it was bad management and consolidation by Asmodee. AMG was a dedicated miniature studio, FFG made a little of everything. FFG became the board and card game studio, AMG got the minis games. Nevermind that they were fundamentally different game models. The idea that AMG poached the lines to produce Shatterpoint is sour grapes conspiracy theory. Also, once Amsodee acquired FFG, they didn’t need to house all the Star Wars games with a single studio. Asmodee was the license owner, they could have authorized Shatterpoint without moving any of the FFG games.
@@kingbobb007 You say "all conjecture' in one breath, and then go on to push your own all conjecture with a "More likely it was...". But of course your conjecture must be right eh, because i'm sure you know best and you're always right. AMG was a dedicated miniatures studio, with 1 game? You're insane. All you do is twist and turn everything to suit your own bias, it's pathetic.
Funny thing, I remember when wizkids had star trek attack wing. They killed that off then started this new game. I won't lie, I would probably buy that enterprise, and the alternative universe version with the 3 nacelles.
Star trek attack wing is still alive, and recently had new faction packs come out, the new game isn't a replacement as its a completely different type of game.
I kind of agree with you in a way but tbh i do kind of think they maybe shouldn't have bothered taking it over in the first place if they honestly had no real intention of putting stuff into them. Maybe they could have done a redesigned game and make an armada like game with smaller scale ships and tokens for fighters but like you said it doesn't feel like they really have any interest in space ship games . The price of legion stuff is getting really steep like when your models cost more then gw models even with the licence you should be asking yourself questions haha.
Out of the many actual things they can be faulted for, not being able to say no when corporate says "So we're concentrating products lines, you get the Star Wars miniature ones because we're going to be sold to another vulture fund" is not one of them, tho.
So what do we know about upcoming expansions at this point? You mentioned we're gonna get a standalone Defiant which is news: do you also know more about the supposed Klingon expansion?
I always liked the X-Wing and Armada ships but never really got into it purely do to the price. Would love a similar type game thats a bit more budget friendly. It seems that Wizkids might be on the right track, unfortunately i'm just not that into Star Trek. Would be kinda cool if they got the licensing for Star Wars, StarGate, Gundam, and any other SCi-Fi type IP and make a cohesive game like HeroClix!
Today I learned there is Star Trek game to fill the void X Wing left. I hope we get a legacy/time displaced NX set in a few years. After all the named Dominion war era ships.
I just play at home, I dont give a hoot about how the game is played "professionally " all I wanted was more clone wars ships, i got some 3d printed and have to make my own cards since I'll never get a lucrehulk or a fleet of frigates available for sale as seperate expansions
I'm mad they stopped support for years then killed it out the blue. It needed a final print run of the ships. Alot of money left on the table, and alot of fans without the means to get ships they needed.
I can't blame AMG for closing out games in favor of others that are more profitable. In my gaming community, Legion has a strong presence that keeps growing. Shatterpoint has a modest following. No one plays X-wing or Armada. My central problem with AMG is a matter of organization and efficiency, parsing out rule changes and information in a trickle and forcing players to adjust every few months. They could take notes from D&D who have routinely changed rules and mechanics over the years but did so in a consistent and open manner. As popular as Legion is in my city, there are already factions of players discussing abandoning the official rules in favor of game mechanics that can be trusted to remain in place long enough not to confuse new and existing players. It just feels like all this, along with the quiet murder of two other games, indicates AMG might not be run in the most effective way.
I suspect AMG are pretty chronically understaffed, given the financial state of Asmodee and the fact that the FFG miniatures games were absolutely moved over to them as a cost saving/corporate streamlining measure. I think if Asmodee had moved some of the FFG designers over to AMG rather than making them redundant, they'd be in better shape.
It’s not controversial to point out that AMG had no business running any of these games. Their 2 cofounders were ex-developers for war machine and only wanted to design one kind of game. Even now, they are ruining Legion with half-assed updates and homogenized gameplay. These dudes never understood why people liked different game systems and never bothered to learn. Not only that, they are incredibly lazy at doing even normal game maintenance like points updates which literally takes 10 minutes. They are terrible designers and business people.
I agree there was no attempt for them to continue armada. AMG has a nasty habit of AMGing all there acquired products. If they bought settlers of Catan they would change the game. That's why I don't use there rule changes on any starwars game. I'll buy the mininies, but I will not use there rules. At least with armada we can develop our own ships from legends. I would love to fight the katan fleet with all of its slaved dreadnoughts.
Just as I had a not so hot take the other day , this feels like a pretty based in reality take. I think we all see they let the games die at best or straight up killed them by bungling the development at worst.
Hearing all of this just makes me even more upset with them. What a worthless way to design tabletop games. Why the hell is anyone still buying product from this company?
AMG, always indefensible, from minute 1 to start. People in the Armada community tried, and ok, if no real change for the worse is the objective, they can feel justified. But real change for the worse (but not game killing ones) happened, after all, and thats on playtesters (if there were any) and AMG, ultimately. Its the best game, great players everywhere, dont want to miss it. And now, finally, off to Romulus as well.
Lots of assumptions here. I feel like if AMG thought changing the game would make them more money they would have done it. I think they saw Armada as not needing any help
I think the biggest issues that both Armada and X-Wing had was a combination of no "hobby" (building and painting) element to help sustain them over COVID lockdowns, and the fact that Asmodee have been under intense financial scrutiny from Embracer for a while. I think it's hard for pre-painted products to look competitive when they're sat next to grey plastic on sprue products with much better profit margins on the company's catalogue of products.
When AMG said X-wing was a tower defence game, I knew they had no idea what X-wing was lol
AMG 100% wanted to kill Xwing and Armada
They said WHAT
It was specifically in the context of not wanting X-Wing to be a tower defence game, in reference to the large ship self-bumping fortresses that used to be possible under the old bumping rules.
A lot of what they were trying to correct were rules they saw as incentivising behaviour they didn't think was in the spirit of the game. YMMV on exactly how well or otherwise that worked, but I definitely think they had plans for X-Wing in a way they didn't for Armada.
It was probably better AMG sunset Armada in its existing form. They have a completely different mindset that doesn't work for a starship combat game.
However this doesn't clear AMG of poorly handling the game systems they were given.
X-Wing given the AMG treatment killed it kong before the official announcement.
I'll never forgive them for ruining the game before we got an official Lucrehulk. God I wanted that!
I wanted the lancer so we could get some anti-squadron ships.
Real
Same thing we've all been thinking for a while now. It's not a hot take, it's reality. AMG didn't drop the ball, they boxed it up, shipped it to Nambia, it was returned, they left it in the garage and then one day opened it only to find it wasn't even the original ball they sent out.
In short; They never cared, we already knew they'd kill the game.
Ahhh... its truly the modern world to say "thank you for not destroying my favorite thing by ignoring it." I feel like that is a somewhat common refrain these days.
Thanks for saying what most of us are thinking and feeling. AMG has no idea what they are doing. They are hurting our beloved games.
I got my Star Trek into the Unknown. Played it with my father yesterday. It is rules heavy, but we are committed to this game! It is SO THEMATIC! It felt like we were having our own story unfolding.
It's really VERY cool
Love this game! Can't wait for the future expansions.
The best thing that AMG could have done is open their mind and listen to their customers.
Never thought of it as “them dropping it means they can’t efff it up.” Huh.
Still not enough for me to forgive the lack of reprints and outright lies about it but still….interesting thought
We just wanted the freggin reprints.
@ same.
After one of the X wing announcements, I remember seeing someone comment on the post "Dear AMG. Please continue to ignore Armada! Thank you!"
100% agree with your take. A lot of other games even get ruined from one edition to the next, let alone a switch of companies. It certainly could have been worse!
AMG really feels like a really good display model company that has a mediocre game attached.
AMG not 2.5ing it by simply doing absolutely nothing with it was indeed their best move.
Into the Unknown really does lay bare the fallacy of 'increasing costs' as an excuse. I'm actually shocked how much you get from Unknown comparatively to Armada. And that core set also included printed acrylic tools right? That's actually a TON of value for a bargain price. I might actually pick it up, though the demo at last adepticon didn't really impress.
I gotta agree they really did the best thing by not trying. The one time they jumped in and tried that busted Anakin was quite the indicator of the quality we could have expected.
Only reason I convienced myself to get into another miniature hobby game - IT WAS PUT TOGETHER and WAS PRE-PAINTED. Who has time to spend hours upon hours to assemble and paint etc.. when I want to play.
Amen! Real life sucks and always gets in the way. When i get free time, i just want to hang with friends and play the game. I don't want to paint alone. I don't want to bring a painting studio to the FLGS.
Ideal for non modelling wargamers that want their pieces asap on the table and u do actually pay premium for it.
I'm modeller first and love building and painting but that is a personal choice.
AMG have an entirely different style of game in mind. Even the changes they have made to Legion are questionable to me, I really hate the gimicky stuff they have been adding like the Marksman cards that deal unblockable damage or how they compeltely changed how things like transport, grenades and so one work.
Agreed, I still play the old rules for both Armada and Legion.
I agree! I’ve played legion since 2019 and the game has progressively gotten worse after the fired Luke Eddy.
I’m done giving AMG money. I’ll still play legion sometimes. I’m just not buying anything new.
I think we have to be happy they didn't X-Wing the franchise, meaning controversial rule changes then abandoning the game.
Armada only dies if we let it. There is already a pretty large selection of fan made ships out there to keep the fans happy. I own a few myself and they look great mixed in with my fleets. One thing that I wished was done was official bases for Imperial versions of the Nebulon B and CR Corvettes, as well as any other ship used by both sides.
I'm sure someone out there has 3D print models of the EC Henry versions of those ships.
I agree with you. Given their business mentality, they luckily did minimal damage to our game. And by our game, I mean it was never their game in the first place because they never cared for it.
So in a weird way, we got lucky 😅
The Star Trek cost shows that Armada could've continued if they wanted it to, end of discussion.
I agree. Better to have an unbroken armada than watch AMG break and ruin another game. Everytime I hear ol Will running his mouth, I am reminded what a subpar company AMG is
I have to agree. Fans can continue to play Armada with a solid rule set and not worry about the rules changing or units being nerfed every six months.
Given the design principles in MCP and Shatterpoint (and now Legion) that emphasizes area control, I wonder if they (correctly) realized that Armada wasn't going to be able to be successfully changed/broken to accommodate that kind of objective play and thus left it on the back-burner. By the end of 2020, it was clear that they didn't really have any good ideas, especially after the reaction to their tinkering with X-Wing, and so they moved to shutter production. RR1 and 2 could just be the minimal effort they were contractually obligated to release to keep the SW license.
But, to your main point: the Star Trek Into the Unknown ships are rather inconvenient counter-evidence to AMG's claims that pre-painted ships are too expensive these days.
well being ignored is not as bad as messing it up by 2.0 and 2.5 and even more alienating players, so i agree, amg did do a favor to armada
Could we get a video on how to Continue playing X-Wing, outside of tournaments? If I wanted to just play some games with friends, whats the best way to go about it?
Forgot XWing Alliance (XWA) for itnis all AMG 2.5. Check out XWing Legacy -- orginal 2.0 with new content brought into 2.0. Good luck!
I suppose it's possible that the Star Wars licence for Armada was 5x the cost of the Star Trek licence, but I'm not convinced. Unfortunately, the way it has gone down with Armada, X-Wing and Legion has put me off miniature games almost completely - it's back to board games I think.
If Jaswares can sell huge pre painted ships for half the price, I don’t see why AMG couldn’t get it done.
The general summary of this video sounds like AMG is bad at being a wargaming tabletop company and deliberately chose to neglect wargaming property which they requested to own in the first place. I'm really not sure how anyone should or can feel sorry for AMG.
I cannot support XWA because they support and maintain 2.5 rules. Why support what AMG gave?
Somewhere there's an AMG exec scribbling down all your "well, they could have made Armada even worse by doing..." and cackling with grinchy glee that there's still time to get that in the 'October' update.
I stopped supporting AMG games a while ago. I moved onto Star Trek Alliance and Star Trek Into the Unknown. When I do play Legion or X-wing I like to play with older rules at the kitchen table and don't participate in any official event.
Asmodee being allowed to violate anti-trust/monopoly/market influence laws and regulations has been terrible for the hobby. They've driven up prices and provided worse games at the same time.
It was apparent from the very start they had no interest in the gameplay we all enjoyed and loved. Makes me sad as I still love Armada and play it with my family!
I hope they don’t ‘update’ Armada before dropping it. At this point I trust the community for all three SW games way more.
I really wish we still had reprints
Just blows my mind how fast restocks would sell out. At least online.
Might not be the case here but seems a common practice with some companies with their popular sets: artificial low stocks.
I don't play Armada, but I agree when comparing to X-Wing, leaving it alone was probably for the best.
I'd argue that is still them screwing it up. But I agree, I'd rather ignored than destroyed.
What i hate most about amg era of star wars games is that they feel more catered to the competitive scene. Like in legion 2.0 you score objectives per turn, your objectives and deployments are together now, and they even have a system where you can max score and the game is over, which to me is asking for people to completely tailor lists to win that way. 1.0 legions system had you usually score at the very end so you had to fight out the entire game to see who wins at the end. And they had the added bonus of different deployments, objectives and conditions. Before the rules were made for playing a game, now they’re made for trying to win a game
Both games had such potential but just were not supported enough which put off a lot of players as stock levels were always so poor it was a massive missed potential by them as who does not want Star Wars space battles! They just did not understand what fans wanted
Thanks for the perspective, I guess things could’ve been a lot worse
Star Trek always seemed to be a less expensive franchise than Star Wars, even more so since Disney purchased Lucas Arts.
I’m just personally not a fan of AMG’s take on Legion, and very much don’t like their price increases. My collection is frozen as is and I’ll continue playing with my friends under the FFG rules. The fact that I can pick up Into the Unknown and play a ready to play game out of the box for less than the cost of one sides’ army in Legion (that would still need assembly and painting) is crazy! I’ve switched over to Flames of War for my hobby building now. It’s not cheap but it’s not as expensive as Legion!
My only issue with Star Trek into unknown is that its Star Trek / yeah watched movie and some of series stuff . But Star Wars would be my love. Why I shifted to legion and SWU. I hope Armada gets picked up and comes back . I prefer the format as with legion I find myself caught between playing and painting so want to play my unpainted stuff as I want it too look good. This is just my personnel preference . Why armada worked for me. Buy the ships and you play.
Honestly, I think they should have moved Armada to being a system, rather than a Star Wars game. Years and years ago I made mock ups for what a Star Trek and Halo expansion. Star Trek would have fewer Hull Zones but higher shields, and Halo would have no shields but twice the Hull (or more) of their Star Wars equivalents.
It likely would have been a licensing nightmare, but if Attack-Tiks could do it in 2005 why couldn't AMG do it in 2024? It would easily have doubled the profits of the game; a friend of mine wasn't interested in the Star Wars ships, but would have bought every single Enterprise, I own every Imperial Ship but I'd have bought 10 Halo ships without hesitation, ect ect
When AMG said that putting in objective play was “brining X-Wing back to its roots” I knew the game as all but dead. They had no idea what X-Wing was
Loved this game. I wish they would finish the Clone Wars stuff, even though I never bought any of it, as I stopped playing when I got heavily into Legion and moved to town with new players
I love the sass Mr Crab - and agree.
As a long time X wing player (started early 1.0) I honestly liked the addition of the Objectives into the game, specifically the 2nd iteration. I didnt like the points change though and would rather they figured a way to adapt ship costs into VP and keep the 200 point squadron build.
Well, Crabbok has gone insane. Armada and X-wing were completely ruined by AMG and stock of either has been impossible to get since before they announced it was forever dead. Nothing about it was good and just killing them off instead of handing them off again is the absolute worst decision ever. Zero care. All of the games they make are utterly awful, Shatterpoint was immensely disappointing. I think Legions end is also neigh.
Having watched a few videos on the mechanic. The game play actually looks very straightforward but presented in a very convoluted way.
I will happily try it out.
Better than they’ve done with X-Wing… I still expect them to let Armada die out more than it has.
Looking at how "well" AMG treated X-wing it's probably best they had any actual progress with Armada.
Heck were STILL waiting on that final points / rules update that was supposed to come out end of Fall.
I think I have to agree.
i ordered one of these to go along with my EAGLEMOSS collection. They NEVER did a saucer-separation Enterprise D. Why? Who knows...
The one thing I will say in their defence is that, in light of the Errata, the game is actually in BETTER shape than it was when it left FFG control.
I’ve just realized the Star Destroyer pit is actually the vending machine area for the off-duty canteen.
I have to politely disagree. Armada and X-Wing still were very popular (X-Wing especially). And all we got for Armada was a couple of reprints. Ships like the Venator and Hammerheads were almost always out of stock and thanks to that are ludicrously priced on the after market. They clearly never cared about the game and I think it shows.
What point are you disagreeing with?
@@Crabbok That you said AMG treated Armada very well lol. I just think that the past 4 years of zero new products and only two, online only Rapid Reinforcement cards speak for themselves. The failure to keep up with reprint I will also not forgive, it's because of their failure that I'll never be able to afford an official Venator or Hammerhead expansion, and then there are those less fortunate than me who will never get an Arquitens, Quasar or Gladiator. Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer Armada go out before a massive rules overhaul that could split the fan base like X-Wing had. But the failure with reprints, radio silence and AMG employees shutting down numerous fans during interviews about updates for Armada just left a bad taste in everybody's mouth.
But as much as I dislike AMG for Armada/X-Wing, Asmodee are the true villains here for culling FFG and throwing these games at AMG when they never wanted them to begin with. All to account for their debt with that Embracer Group merger (I'm not super familiar with the details but that's what I understood happened, plus COVID killing supply chains.
Thanks for responding to my comment!
Ok the reprints portion I can certainly understand. But yeah if they had done more, my fear is that it would have resulted in a rules overhaul that would have been far worse. More reprints though would have been excellent.
Interesting take and your argument makes sense. We can blame AMG for abandonment of successful games but Asmodee needs to take some blame too - to give a new start-up established games without the resources and people needed to continue developing and supporting them was a mistake. Ultimately Lucasfilm and Disney signed off on this use/misuse of their IP which may show how gamers are just another revenue stream for them
I do still like armada buy I think your right that they did right by not redesigning the game. I wish they did add the donut for cis even if it was smaller.
Lack of support after the clone wars is what killed the game for me. I stopped caring after they did frankly
Because the Republic/Separatists came out right before shutdown, I would think that FFG had a roadmap for future releases. How difficult would it have been for AMG to just follow that and declare the game done at a certain point?
Good take, Xwing 1.0 was killed by sloppy non vetted ships to always chasing a new overpowered meta (punisher 1.0). I always appreciated the slower release schedule of Armada and less errors.
I appreciate the video, as the rest of your videos. Over the last two years, I have acquired a couple reb/imp core sets plus a handful of reb and imp expansions. Gonna play it with a buddy this week for the first time. Super excited! I've been using Ryan King's fleet Builder to help in setting fleets for the both us.
This video was basically academic for me, but I do appreciate the take from a veteran player. And agree, though I can only discuss this game academically at this point, that game titled Star wars Armada should at least be primarily about fleet combat. Some of the best moments in the Star wars saga are the amazing space battles with all those memorable characters.
The company apparently did not give a womprats rear end about that.
So, still no “October Announcement” 🙄
I don't disagree, leaving the 'official' game intact is the best case scenario for Armada. I've only played Armada a handful of times, I am not sure if the game suffered from the same issues X-Wing did (fortressing (in a corner), points fortressing, massive bids...etc...). There is no denying that X-Wing's player base suffered with the changes they made, but many were needed.
I don't doubt that there were more reasons that were never openly discussed as to why ship production for X-Wing\Armada was never even attempted under AMG. I really like you bringing in Wiz Kid's new game in the mix showcasing that it is possible still in a post COVID world to have fully assembled and painted models sold for reasonable prices. I am sure it is a bit more complex than what it seems, but it does show that their main reason of production costs vs reasonable msrp was partially untrue.
Merry X-Mas and have a safe Holiday period!
I am betting that shatterpoint will sunset in the next year or two, unless AMG gets off their butts and changes the game.
Hard disagree on AMG not wanting units to be killed. Legion 2.6 is the most killy version of the game. MCP is notorious for characters getting eliminated after activating once or less. If anything about AMG killed Armada, it was the mindset that TT games need to include models to build and paint, and Asmodee being unwilling to fund dedicated staff to manage what were essentially different product lines in X-Wing and Armada. If you want to direct any hatred at these games ending, all the blame goes to Asmodee and corporate greed
Asmodee certainly has it's share, but let me ask you - have you ever stopped to wonder why Asmodee decided to take 3 of the most popular games in the world and relocate them under a studio that had only 1 game? Instead of doing it the other way around?
Most likely consolidation. Fantasy flight games does board games and atomic mass games does hobby games Armada may have started as a board game meets war game type of product but when you look at the way it became popular it became more akin to a typical war game which is also a hobby game. It's not out of the realm of possibility that Asmodee wanted it to become as popular as some of the other games on the market and so they wanted to shift it to a team that they felt would better shepherd it. I think that AMG wanted to keep the products going but you have to take into account the amount of debt that was put on them and the fact that it seems they weren't allowed to get the teams to further develop these games. And as for the developers that were let go from fantasy flight when all of this was shifted to AMG that was most likely a decision on Asmodee's part because instead of having the team spread out across the country they most likely wanted it in house in office.@@Crabbok
I believe some months back, the Armada Podcast had an episode on how AMG leadership petitioned Asmodee to transfer the Star Wars miniature license to them, claiming to be the miniature company, so they could develop and produce a MCP-like Star Wars game (ShatterPoint). If i remember the episode correctly, the managers at amg lied to Asmodee when they stated that they could support ffg's games since they had no intention of actually continuing development of Armada and X-Wing at the very least.
@@matthewmayton1845all conjecture. More likely it was bad management and consolidation by Asmodee. AMG was a dedicated miniature studio, FFG made a little of everything. FFG became the board and card game studio, AMG got the minis games. Nevermind that they were fundamentally different game models. The idea that AMG poached the lines to produce Shatterpoint is sour grapes conspiracy theory. Also, once Amsodee acquired FFG, they didn’t need to house all the Star Wars games with a single studio. Asmodee was the license owner, they could have authorized Shatterpoint without moving any of the FFG games.
@@kingbobb007 You say "all conjecture' in one breath, and then go on to push your own all conjecture with a "More likely it was...". But of course your conjecture must be right eh, because i'm sure you know best and you're always right. AMG was a dedicated miniatures studio, with 1 game? You're insane. All you do is twist and turn everything to suit your own bias, it's pathetic.
Funny thing, I remember when wizkids had star trek attack wing. They killed that off then started this new game. I won't lie, I would probably buy that enterprise, and the alternative universe version with the 3 nacelles.
Star trek attack wing is still alive, and recently had new faction packs come out, the new game isn't a replacement as its a completely different type of game.
@iandavies821 i haven't seen new Staw in years, i can't remember what the last faction pack came out that I bought.
I'm always hopeful that Armada will be refreshed and brought back but let's be honest we all know it's dead
I suggest people listen to the Armada Podcast episode from earlier this year when they talk about why ffg games were transferred to amg.
I kind of agree with you in a way but tbh i do kind of think they maybe shouldn't have bothered taking it over in the first place if they honestly had no real intention of putting stuff into them. Maybe they could have done a redesigned game and make an armada like game with smaller scale ships and tokens for fighters but like you said it doesn't feel like they really have any interest in space ship games . The price of legion stuff is getting really steep like when your models cost more then gw models even with the licence you should be asking yourself questions haha.
Out of the many actual things they can be faulted for, not being able to say no when corporate says "So we're concentrating products lines, you get the Star Wars miniature ones because we're going to be sold to another vulture fund" is not one of them, tho.
So what do we know about upcoming expansions at this point?
You mentioned we're gonna get a standalone Defiant which is news: do you also know more about the supposed Klingon expansion?
I always liked the X-Wing and Armada ships but never really got into it purely do to the price. Would love a similar type game thats a bit more budget friendly. It seems that Wizkids might be on the right track, unfortunately i'm just not that into Star Trek. Would be kinda cool if they got the licensing for Star Wars, StarGate, Gundam, and any other SCi-Fi type IP and make a cohesive game like HeroClix!
Today I learned there is Star Trek game to fill the void X Wing left.
I hope we get a legacy/time displaced NX set in a few years. After all the named Dominion war era ships.
Controversially correct!
I just play at home, I dont give a hoot about how the game is played "professionally " all I wanted was more clone wars ships, i got some 3d printed and have to make my own cards since I'll never get a lucrehulk or a fleet of frigates available for sale as seperate expansions
I'm mad they stopped support for years then killed it out the blue. It needed a final print run of the ships. Alot of money left on the table, and alot of fans without the means to get ships they needed.
I miss Armada 😢
You can always just continue to play Legion etc. with the FFG rule set. I know that can make things not gel as much with new releases perhaps though.
I can't blame AMG for closing out games in favor of others that are more profitable. In my gaming community, Legion has a strong presence that keeps growing. Shatterpoint has a modest following. No one plays X-wing or Armada. My central problem with AMG is a matter of organization and efficiency, parsing out rule changes and information in a trickle and forcing players to adjust every few months. They could take notes from D&D who have routinely changed rules and mechanics over the years but did so in a consistent and open manner. As popular as Legion is in my city, there are already factions of players discussing abandoning the official rules in favor of game mechanics that can be trusted to remain in place long enough not to confuse new and existing players. It just feels like all this, along with the quiet murder of two other games, indicates AMG might not be run in the most effective way.
I suspect AMG are pretty chronically understaffed, given the financial state of Asmodee and the fact that the FFG miniatures games were absolutely moved over to them as a cost saving/corporate streamlining measure. I think if Asmodee had moved some of the FFG designers over to AMG rather than making them redundant, they'd be in better shape.
It’s not controversial to point out that AMG had no business running any of these games. Their 2 cofounders were ex-developers for war machine and only wanted to design one kind of game.
Even now, they are ruining Legion with half-assed updates and homogenized gameplay.
These dudes never understood why people liked different game systems and never bothered to learn. Not only that, they are incredibly lazy at doing even normal game maintenance like points updates which literally takes 10 minutes.
They are terrible designers and business people.
I agree there was no attempt for them to continue armada. AMG has a nasty habit of AMGing all there acquired products. If they bought settlers of Catan they would change the game. That's why I don't use there rule changes on any starwars game. I'll buy the mininies, but I will not use there rules. At least with armada we can develop our own ships from legends. I would love to fight the katan fleet with all of its slaved dreadnoughts.
I actually agree with you.
AMG screwed the pooch on all of the FFG games. They just wanted to make Star Wars MCP
Quick builds would be interesting. 4:56
So is it still fun?? Plus I need me some gifts 😁
Wiz kids, please buy X-Wing and Armada from AMG!
Just as I had a not so hot take the other day , this feels like a pretty based in reality take. I think we all see they let the games die at best or straight up killed them by bungling the development at worst.
Cant hear anything because i'm grinding my knee-high work socks on a washboard.
so true the comment on the way treat the game and how the don't like you to have your own thought strategy and the luck factor would ruin armada
Hearing all of this just makes me even more upset with them. What a worthless way to design tabletop games. Why the hell is anyone still buying product from this company?
I WANT ARMADA!
I disagree.
AMG is useless. Embracer can go to heck. I hope they all become insolvent soon.
So if I get a core set for legion, will it be the "good" old version of legion?
No intention playing at a store, just playing with family.
they broke my heart man I love armada and xwing they are my preferred tabletop games and they ruined it!
Why does Star Wars ALWAYS fall into the hands of the most hardcore cheapskates...
Well this is a take alright.
Damn this is like the most conmented video in a while.
AMG should take notice...
AMG, always indefensible, from minute 1 to start. People in the Armada community tried, and ok, if no real change for the worse is the objective, they can feel justified. But real change for the worse (but not game killing ones) happened, after all, and thats on playtesters (if there were any) and AMG, ultimately.
Its the best game, great players everywhere, dont want to miss it. And now, finally, off to Romulus as well.
from min 1 to now, oc
Lots of assumptions here. I feel like if AMG thought changing the game would make them more money they would have done it. I think they saw Armada as not needing any help
I think the biggest issues that both Armada and X-Wing had was a combination of no "hobby" (building and painting) element to help sustain them over COVID lockdowns, and the fact that Asmodee have been under intense financial scrutiny from Embracer for a while. I think it's hard for pre-painted products to look competitive when they're sat next to grey plastic on sprue products with much better profit margins on the company's catalogue of products.
🐐🐐🐐