German Constitution, Article 1: "Human dignity shall be inviolable. To respect and protect it shall be the duty of all state authority." I do not deny that sometimes, state authority violates this basic law, but all in all, the system works. Still, how ever nice they may make a prison, it's still a prison, and I wouldn't want to be there.
Something fun for the Americans who might not know but this article is a result of the Holocaust and is protected by the constitutions "eternity clause" (Article 79 Number 3 GG) which states that Article 1 (human dignity) and Article 20: (1) The Federal Republic of Germany is a democratic and social federal state. (2) All state authority is derived from the people. It shall be exercised by the people through elections and other votes and through specific legislative, executive and judicial bodies. (3) The legislature shall be bound by the constitutional order, the executive and the judiciary by law and justice. (4) All Germans shall have the right to resist any person seeking to abolish this constitutional order if no other remedy is available. cannot be changed (Amendments to this Basic Law affecting the division of the Federation into Länder, their participation in principle in the legislative process, or the principles laid down in Articles 1 and 20 shall be inadmissible.). This is understood to also apply to any constitution that might succeed the Basic Law (for example by Article 146) If you are interested in the Basic Law (the German Constitution) here is the official English translation: www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_gg/englisch_gg.html
@@aw3s0me12 Actually - they do. Many inmates in prisons have children of their own and don't like the thought of them being abused one bit. Child abusers usually don't exactly face happy times in prisons.
@@S.T.A.L.K.E.R.-Strelok If you say so Mylord. I did not criticize Mr. Dostojewski. I did not write that he is responsible for the russian mess. I wrote about the inhumane conditions in russian prisons! I pointed out that he had a clear view on the misery! You are shooting the messenger. Have a nice day. Slava Ukraine!
I grew up thinking prisoners having „Freigang“ is a normal thing everywhere. In Germany, if you have been doing well in prison or are incarcerated for something minor, you are allowed to leave the prisons for the day (to visit family or get a job) and only have to return for the night and the weekends. There are different regulations, but essentially you get to slowly return to society although you are technically still serving a sentence. It makes so much sense to me and it was shocking to realize this is not normal everywhere.
America used to have something similar to „Freigang“ but it was discontinued after the infamous Willie Horton case. In 1987 a murder named Willie Horton was given a pass to leave the prison and visit his family outside of prison on the condition he would return to prison in a few days. Horton was in the middle of a sentence he was serving out for a murder in 1974. However on his leave from prison he committed 2 more murders. The prison system's reaction to the Willie Horton murders was to permanently end the prison leave system. Criminals who abuse the system is the reason we can't have nice things in America.
Treat them like people and when they re-enter society, they won't be psycologially messed up by the prison experience. American's often say "wow, this looks great" but would you really trade your freedom? Years from your life? If the answer is still yes. I'd be really concerned about what regular life in your country is like. The problem then isn't the prisons being too nice - its regular life out in society needs improvement.
yep. I like to see it this way: the prisoners will be released eventually. They'll be someone's neighbour eventually. And I'd rather have a ex-prisoner who's mentally stable than one who's traumatized and will be more likely to return to crime
I was thinking that, if this looks good by American living standards, then what does that suggest about how Americans are living? I highly doubt many Europeans would want to be locked up in prison, even with them being much nicer places to live than American prisons. Maybe the quality of living in European countries is so much better than what Americans are accustomed too, that they see these prisons as actually quite good and something like a normal life that in some cases, is better than what the American poor get, even with being free. It's a crazy situation, but it tells you a lot about the society of a country and it's people in how they see things and clearly, Europe, especially EU countries are doing something right when it comes to quality of living, rights and putting people first.
@@paul1979uk2000 well, German prisons are so good, that some homeless people actually commit petty crimes to be caught and sent to prison at times. But „real prisoners“ tend to say things like „being away from your family and friends is the punishment, not the prison itself“. And just thinking about it, I have to agree with that.
@@dannyf1168 someone else described this very well in another comment. Sometimes people are not ready to take on life outside of prison (then they can actually ask for a room in a prison until they feel fit for it) or they need stability (or just a safe place for some weeks or months) so they try to achieve it this way. When they really need mental health care that goes beyond „how to live a normal life“, they should be able to get that care outside of the prison system, because it’s covered by the statutory health insurance (and private insurance in Germany is required to cover at least the same). I know psychologists and psychiatrist are rare, but they and their care (as well as in and out patient institutions) are covered by the insurance.
Our whole legal system is VERY different. We do not have jurys. We do not have jails. We do not have bail. We do not have bounty (hunters). We do not have executions. We do not have unpaid, forced prison labour (slavery). The idea that human dignity is inviolable works, not perfect and not always... BUT it is a cornerstone of our understanding of civiliasitaion. The american system is "barbaric" in my opinion.
I'm German too, and is it normal that I count the US as a second world country when I feel generous, and as a third world country normally? Because that's my actual damn thought.
The American way is in fact barbaric. America is a failed society in my opinion. I like the culture, but i hate the way they work their country as a hole.
In German courts, they take the "in dubio pro reo" (doubt must benefit the accused) very seriously. If they can't prove 100% that somebody is guilty, they have to let them go. They also can't keep somebody in custody for years without a trial. Also, very few people stay in prison their entire life; those sentenced to "life in prison" (lebenslänglich) usually get paroled after 15 years (unless they are a danger to society, like, say, serial killers, in which case they get something called "Sicherheitsverwahrung", meaning that, once they have done their sentence, they have to stay in prison and ask for parole every year or so). Also, they can't give you more time for escaping or trying to escape, the desire to be free is not punishable. If they catch you, you go back to prison and you only get internal punishment (inside the prison) like having to stay inside your cell for 2 weeks or a month without contact to other inmates (solitary confinement longer than a month is not allowed). The first article of the German constitution says that human dignity is inviolable.
On paper they take it seriously, yeah .. But in reality, innocent people are put in jail all over the world by prosecutors who want to portray well by "solved" cases, corrupt judges, prejudices, whatever.... Spiegel reported such a case in Germany just yesterday. And in Germany, a lot of fare dodgers are in jail because they are too poor to pay the 60 euro fine. There are also many political prisoners in Germany, e.g. in Bavaria, who are imprisoned without any charges. It's called "Polizeiaufgabengesetz" and is absolutely dystopian.
They can’t give you more time for (trying to) escape, just for every crime you commit during your escape (destruction of property, stealing anything or - in bad cases - taking hostages, to name a few).
"In German courts" are judges very different between each other, especially what "100% prove" means in reality. As well sometimes the scientists examining footage overestimate their ability to derive what has happened. Many prisons in Germany have been built in the 19th century and are still dark places due to their architecture. Cells are too small and some sort of classrooms are not sufficient. And it is not guaranteed that an inmate will serve his sentence nearby his family. If a sentence to be in prison "for the rest of life" is given and the guilt is considered as very deep and heavy, a parole after 15 years is nearly impossible. Those inmates stay in prison for 22 years in avarage. But there are cases who do not want to leave after 30 or more years in prison, they fear freedom in a world they do not know or understand anymore. I think the video you reacted to is a bit bright about prisons in Germany. At least youth criminals are separated from the adults and most youth prisons are more modern.
@@LarsPW you forgot one important thing that was not mentioned in the video (as far as I remember): in Germany prisoners usually get to leave their cells for more than an hour or two per day (which is the norm in most US prisons as far as I know).
I think you should watch how prisons in Finland and Norway are. One of the most stupid things to me is that in the USA you lose the ability to vote, you should be able to influence the things that drove you to crime in the first place imo.
Well, in Germany incarceration is seen as punishment enough for the prisoners, since it strips them from one of the (if not THE), most important aspects of life: Freedom.
Viel zu lasch. Die Menschen, die z.B. morden, Kinder missbrauchen also schlimme Straftaten begehen, sollten härter bestraft werden und nicht so einen komfortablen Aufenthalt im Gefängnis haben.
People are also not thrown out of a prison after serving their sentence without social services a) preparing them and b) leaving them stranded at the prison gate with no money and nowhere to go. Usually if you have a short prison sentence of a few months you don't even lose the apartment and the social services pay the rent.
@@JaniceHope as a german hope you dont end up inocnent in prsion the german justice system dosn like to admit wrongs even tries to block exonerations and in prison all the nice hings like therapy, jobs early relasse ec you only get if you admit your wrong wich you cant if you are inocent and the compensation you get if wrongfull convcited is a joke if you can even get it prisons in germany have their own flaws and failures but still at last we try too fix offenders not with 23 hours 7 days a week solitary confinment for years and being surprised the mentaly broken offender cant cope in freedom and is back next week after murder or assault of a felow citizen
you have to consider: some people make once a mistake in their life. The deserve a chance and should be treaten like humans. Some will be better persons after the prison. In the States the rate of prisoners who will get again into prision is MUCH higher!
especially because the goal should be, at least for the 95% who are not complete psychopaths, to rehabilitate and reintegrate them into society. It's even more important in the most cases than the actual punishment itself. otherwise they are way more likely to commit any crime again, as you mentioned.
E.g. breaking a window ... Steal clothing ... (What if German prisons would have uniforms for insiders scenario: If you leave the prison area while u wear their given clothing. you have already stolen clothing's of the prison ) Simple thought even for USCs (US Citizens, I personally deny to use the term American for any country bc america are 2 continents with 10+ countries like Bolivia or Peru. The US can give themselves an actual name or use the US and mentioned USCs for them.)
German Prisons are not build to punish people, like US Prisons. They are primarily build to rehabilitate people and prepare them for a normal life in our society. And I personally think this is a great way of dealing with criminals. No one commits a crime because they want to. Normally they do, because they feel they have to for some reason.
Especialyl as we also want them to have a place afterwards. Fortunately, we no longer have to deal with people that got sent to jail in the GDR, but even so - if you went to jail in 2010 or so, good luck surviving in the modern world without preparation.
That's not entirely true. Punishment and protection of society from dangerous individuals are still just as important reasons. But other than in other countries in Germany rehabilitation is not thrown out the window or made much less likely. Of course incarceration is meant as a punishment. But not being able to move freely, being confined to a small room, no luxuries, is already punishment. No need to further humiliate or further brutality inmates. Think if parents punishing their children for wrong doings or overstepping. Yes, they get a punishment, but at the same time the parents don't want to destroy them or permanently damage them.
The worst sentence you can get in Germany is Sicherheitsverwahrung. That means you stay in prison after you served your sentence. You have more freedoms than regular prisoners, since you're not a prisoner. But you will never leave the prison because it's almost guaranteed that you'll repeat the crime that brought you there. Now, you won't get that for shoplifting or drug taking or selling. Not even if that's the first thing you do everytime you get out. Your stint in prison might get longer the more often you appear in front of the judge, but that's about it. Sentencing you to spend your life imprisoned even after you served the maximum penalty for the crime you committed is basically going against the first article of the constitution. It violates your dignity. Yet for the sake of society (everyone else's dignity, if you will) you can't be let out again. I'm glad we don't kill people. The state shouldn't have the power to decide that. They're only humans, too. They make mistakes. You can get out of prison, you can't come out of a grave.
The target of prisons in Scandinavia and Germany is to develop the inmate in the direction of a reliable member of society. Therefore the staff represent role modells and they are partners to achieve this goal. Of course this will not work with every single criminal but you have to try at least. In the end the rate of persons being released from prison and caught again with new acts of violence or crime is significant lower than in the States.
One big difference: Our judges, police officers and prosecutors are not elected, but appointed. Judges are selected by a committee of judges and then stay judges for life (except for those at the constitutioal court, who stay for 12 years) and police officers and prosecutors are civil servants. They do not have to appear to be "hard on crime" to get reelected. Prosecutors have by law to also consider evidence which points towards a suspect's innocence and have to close investigations if there is not sufficient evidence to point towards guilt.
While prison time is something you spend because of a crime you committed, in Germany we concentrate on re-socialization and not so much on punishment, while the US prisons seem only concentrating on the latter, but never forget that even in Germany your freedom is taken away for the time you spend in prison, but the intention is not to break you, but to build you up again.
Oh dear, Joel, things must be going through a rough patch if a comfy prison begins to look attractive! The UK prison system is not great but it is surely a matter of trying to apply intelligence. The purpose of prisons is to punish, to protect the general population and finally to rehabilitate. The German and Scandinavians do this much more successfully than the UK or US. There is no death penalty throughout Europe
The situation of not being free is the punishment in Germany. Once I met a former prisoner and he said it was painful not being free and the feeling of being locked.......no matter what you can do inside the prison
There's a TedX talk about German prisons. It's about 23 minutes long and is called "Germany: Low Crime, Clean Prisons, Lessons for America | Jeff Rosen | TEDxMountainViewHighSchool". The video is 6 years old, so some of the data might be dated, but I found it pretty good.
Glad you reacted to the prison system. :) I recommend a TedTalk from Jeff Rosen about German prisons. This talk might be a bit longer than a typical reaction video but I guess many viewers would be happy if you give it a shot. And there are other great videos of scandinavien prisons too. :)
Prison in Germany is not mainly about punishment, it’s to teach them to be better persons. This works only with relationships and social workers and psychologists. I worked with prisoners in a psychiatric hospital.
There is no death penalty in Germany, nor in the European Union (the German government even refuses to send the drugs that were used for lethal injections in executions to the USA; the USA now use a different drug, since Germany is the only producer of that particular drug). Here is a good documentary about the maximum security prison in Aachen: th-cam.com/video/UFlousfjsA4/w-d-xo.html
You're right, it's not only about prisons but many, many more differences affecting the society as a whole. US Americans are being raised with this "The USA is the greatest country in the world and we know best!" idea -- but in order to improve you need to take a step back, reflect and look at things from another perspective. Always looking away and ignoring your own imperfections won't improve anything, you need to be willing to learn from others.
@@seventone4039 everyone has to learn, but I think the emphasis in the comment was more on the unwillingness of the „America is the greatest country on earth“ majority to look at other countries and maybe learn from them. For many of these people it unpatriotic to even think that other countries might be on to something better. While the majority of Germans (and others) I have met tend to love to criticize their own country while hoping to find ways to improve their country.
6:58 "There is emphasis on human dignity when it comes to legislation in Germany" - It is our Prime Directive, the Article 1 of Germany's Constitution.
I was in prison in the Netherlands for a short time. It´s much the same as this looks. The point is you loose your freedom. But on the other hand you will come back in society one day. So it´s important to make that gap as small as possible. At least for the small offenders.
The first sentence of our constitution reds: "The dignity of man is untouchable. To respect and protect it is the obligation of all state power." With prisons run by commercial, private businesses, the system has a keen interest in keeping people incarcerated. Art. 102 of our constitution explicitely forbids the death penalty.
1. We don't have a death penalty in Germany (generally forbidden in the EU) 2. It doesn't mean that rehabilitation always works but it's always worth a try. I would be much more scared living next door to an ex-con knowing they had a terrible time in prison without any counseling.
in the US justice system, its way easier to get someone innocent convicted, i think. Why? cause guilty or not guilty is ruled over by average people, your "peers" that have no idea about the law, about human pychology, manipulation or anything to do with how to judge a person. On top they wanna go home and are incentivised to reach a conclusion, not the right or fair one but just the one they can agree on the quickest. In germany, guilty or not guilty is decided by actual proffessionals - 3 judges. THEY know the law, they know how to judge a person, they arent manipulated by speeches from lawyers or emotional stories. They care for the facts and nothing else making it, in my oppinion, way more reliable and fair. is it perfect? nah but i think its the better option
Well, not exactly. It depends on the crime and the court you are dealing with, but usually you have in case of minor offenses just a single (professional) judge and in cases with cimes, that can be punished harder, there will be two "Schöffen" (two civilians without any law-background, a little like jury-men) next to one (Amtsgericht: Schöffengericht; Landgericht: Kleine Strafkammer), two (Landgericht: Große Strafkammer) or three (Landgericht: Schwurgericht) professional judges (to have some "common sense" among the judging persons, not just ones who live in an "ivory tower").
@@ReisskIaue well that is true, i was in my mind looking at felony charges that can end up with life in prison. minor offenses usuallly arent brought to court at all and a judge rules in your absence - which you then can challenge and demand an actual process but that doesnt happen that often
It happens quite often that homeless, hopeless and helpless people "go back" into the prison, because their life there is sometimes "better" than outside. You have a room, get something to eat and psychological support. It is also possible in Germany to go to prison voluntarily - if there is room. Reason for this: If you feel yourself outside in danger (to not be ready and risk getting in trouble again), you can go back to protect yourself from getting reoffended. And - it's free.
Thank you for explaining this so well, I didn’t remember all of it! To me this feels like an unlikely but very well developed additional safety net in our society.
Well it's not so much focused on "punishment" but more on "rehabilitation". What good does punishing someone do if they just commit the next crime afterwards? ;)
Don't let this fool you. I have worked in two German prisons, and one Forensic Psychiatry Clinic they were old gruesome places. The prisoners/patients are well treated , but the buildings were depressing.
In Germany it's not about locking someone away until they come out vertically. But to give him time to think about his actions, to rehabilitate him and to reintegrate him into society. Whereby that also his probation officer is provided to the side.
btw if you think that is crazy, have your mind blown by norway. they dont even lock up prisoners but let them live in their own villages with houses and aparments
Not really, only some prisoners get those conditions. If they have not committed serious crimes, and if they have behaved well they can access those so called open prisons for the last bit of the sentence. I have worked a few months in one of the high security Norwegian prisons 23 years ago. It was no kindergarten I can tell you that much. Well over half the the inmates were foreigners from east Europe, Africa and Asia. A lot of depression among the prisoners, one had aids and was in an isolation ward, probably died soon after I left. It was a depressing place to be, even the guards was depressed. But the general attitude was to help the prisoners to prepare for a life after they were released. So prisoners could choose to work in three different jobs, carpentry, metal works or fabrics. Or they could choose to get educated, a school system was implemented there.
Death penalty doesn't exist in the EU, membership is prohibited if a country doesn't respect human rights. Most countries even abolished death penalty during war and for war crimes.
A really good topic for further exploration Joel. Its theme could be Kathi Misandrie's quote of Fjodor Michailowitsch Dostojewski (1821 - 1881) "A society's level of civilization can be gauged by the condition of its prisoners.“ John in Canada
Our legal systems are based on different principles. In America, someone is guilty until proven innocent. In Germany, someone is innocent until proven guilty. And our prisons are designed for rehabilitation, not punishment. Doesn't always work, but in many cases better education and training prevents people from recidivism. It may be that in Germany the system was changed because in the Hitler era anyone could be imprisoned or worse for far-fetched reasons. Through false accusations of the alleged victims, and false testimony, it can still happen, but people rarely go to jail here today who are not guilty. This is partly because witnesses are looked at more closely after a number of cases have come to light in recent decades where false testimony led to convictions, and partly because investigative methods have improved. It is precisely through DNA evidence that many a person is subsequently exonerated.
Fun fact: it actually isn't illegal to escape from prison in Germany as long as you don't break other laws - because freedom is considered a basic human instinct. So you won't get an extra punishment for that if you are getting caught. That being said, you most likely need to do some illegal things to get out in the first place (blackmailing, destroying things, taking someone hostage, using a weapon, etc.) and for that you get charges of course. But I think it's fascinating and shows the respect Germany shows prisoners by viewing them as human beings with basic needs and insticts and rights of course (which as others have already pointed out is manifested in Article 1 of the German Constitution).
None of these (very few) 'inside prison images' that are in this video represent the average german prison! But yes, the prison-system in Europe is quite different than in the US. Prisons are never ever in no way run by private companies and there is no need to make money out of that 'business'
Definitely no Death penalty in Germany! In 2016, the United States had the highest prison and jail population (2,121,600 in adult facilities in 2016), and the highest incarceration rate in the world 655 per 100,000 people in 2016 incarceration rate of Canada is 104 per 100,000 (as of 2018), England and Wales is 130 per 100,000 (as of 2021), [and Australia is 160 per 100,000 (as of 2020). Comparing other developed countries, the rate of Spain is 122 per 100,000 (as of 2020), France is 90 per 100,000 (as of 2020), Germany is 69 per 100,000 (as of 2020), Norway is 49 per 100,000 (as of 2020), Netherlands is 63 per 100,000 (as of 2018), and Japan is 38 per 100,000 (as of 2019). (Source Wikipedia)
I am unsure how this is in Germany, but in The Netherlands, a judge can also sentence a defendant to be forcefully put into a mental facility. We call it "Terbeschikkingstelling", or "TBS". It basically means a judge deems you mentally unfit to participate in society, and you need forced mental health care. Technically, the maximum prison sentence is 20 years in our country, but this TBS can be extended indefinitely based on psychiatric evaluations, and is sometimes a harsher sentence than going to prison. And these mental facilities sometimes have worse living conditions than the prisons too, so you are usually worse off if you get this sentence. Usually, for harsher crimes, a judge will deal out a mixed sentence btw. So you would get for example 4 years in prison and 2 years of TBS as a sentence if you murder someone. But effectively that could mean 5 years in prison and a life-long TBS sentence. Everything is focused on re-integration into society, but if you are deemed unfit to re-integrate, you WILL remain locked up for life...
We had this topic a lot. The goal of German prison - rehabilitation and reintegration into society. The goal of the US prisons is punishment. If the German prisons amaze you already have a look a prisons in Finland.😅 The whole dignity part. After the horrific actions of Germany during WW2 when the federal republic of Germany was founded in 1949 it was important to not let something like this happen again. So the first article of our constitution reads: Human dignity shall be inviolable. To respect and protect it shall be the duty of all state authority.
The freedom in Germany is also different. In the US, freedom of speech is giving politicians money to sway opinion. In Germany, that's bribery. In the US it is freedom of speech to insult others. In Germany, insulting others is not covered by personal freedom because it violates dignity. Therefore, Holocaust denial is also a criminal offense and not freedom of speech. In Germany, human dignity is higher than personal freedom! That's what the first sentence of our constitution says: "Human dignity is inviolable." Sentence 2 says that everyone has the right to develop freely as long as they do not restrict others or violate the state. Sentence 3 says that all people are equal and that men and women should be treated equally.
Someone once said it very well: In the USA I have freedom to do things (say whatever I want, run around with a firearm in public,…)and in Germany I have freedom from (fear of healthcare debt, hate speech, people going into public buildings to shoot others,…). It my be my upbringing, but I prefer the freedom from that I get in Germany
Human Dignity is in the first paragraph of the first article of the German constitution. All the court rulings regardingthe prison system are referencing that. I guess it’s hard to just transplant that to the US.
Grundgesetz (German Constituion) Article 1: "Human dignity is inviolable. It is the duty of all state power to respect and protect it." This is taken very seriously in Germany. At 06:46, Joel says exactly the right thing. Yes, the victims of the Nazis have a right to have their life stories recognized and the crimes not to be denied. That too is a form of human dignity. There is no death penalty (Article 102 german Constitution). Children (under the age of 14) will not be brought to justice if they commit crimes. Juveniles (usually under the age of 18) are not punished like adults, regardless of the crime committed. The essence of imprisonment is the protection of society and the rehabilitation of the criminal so that he is no longer a danger and can live a life free of crime. Everyone has the right to live in freedom, if it is possible (There is no penalty for prison break). Probation is possible with any sentence. Nobody should die in prison, very old prisoners are supposed to go to Retirement homes so that they can live out their last years in freedom. Old sick people are usually no longer a danger. It's not about revenge. The system is not perfect, but there are many fewer people who become criminals again than in the USA, for example. Norway has an even more humane penal system. I think it's very good that Joel addresses such a serious and important topic. I wish to be able to welcome him to Germany. Joel, you are a great person
A few facts about the USA prison system: 1) 1/4 of all people incarcerated worldwide are incarcerated in the USA. 2) The USA (336 million people) have locked up 4 times as many people as the autoritarian country of China with a population of 1.4 billion. So much for the "land of the free". 3) The privatization of prisons has led to a system where the prisons want to lock up as many people for as long as possible to squeeze more profit out of them. 4) The mistreatment and lack of support for prisoners has turned the US prisons into violent, dangerous places - which is intentional btw. 5) The removal of civil rights and the lack of job opportunities for ex-prisoners combined with the horrible extortion and abuse many ex-prisoners suffer at the hands of their communities and especially their bosses at work even if they manage to find a job forces many right back into criminal activity just to survive. In short - the whole "justice" system in the USA is designed to produce as many hardened criminals as quickly as possible so that the corporations, their CEOs and shareholders running the prisons can rake in as much profit as possible. PS: According to some statistics about 22 % of the inmates in US prisons are acutally innocent.
but it is the right approach! I've seen a doc about the "prison" for young people situated on an island. The interviews were really great, by prisoners and their guards!
@@Stami604 jaja, so hatte ich es auch verstanden. Aber das ist ja auch so eine Masche von ihm in all seinen Videos, der deutsche Markt ist enorm und falls er das als "Beruf" macht umsomehr. Er liest auch nur sporadisch unsere Kommentare hab ich festgestellt. Naja, er ist jung und es sei ihm gegönnt.
Spent some (thankfully short) time in a Dutch prison a couple years ago, while not quite on par with Germany either it was still surprisingly nice, honestly better then some hotels i've been too... Was on a 2 person shared cell and we had: - our own bathroom with shower included in our cell - proper beds with nice mattress and pillows - 2 flat screen tv's (one for each of us lmao) - a fridge, microwave, toaster, water cooker & phone (that could call to anywhere, we got some cards to use them for x amount of time a week) - proper cutlery etc too (which honestly surprised me, steak knives and all..?!) - laundry service 3x a week And then there was also a "common room" in each cell block with full blown kitchen with gas burners and oven and fryer etc & also a big ass tv with several game consoles, plus a computer with internet we could request access too, so really it was better then some hotels, you just weren't allowed outside lol. 2ce a week we would get 'standard groceries' which would be coffee, tea, sugar, milk, bread, cheese meat and sweet stuff for on bread, smokes (if a smoker) and 4-5 (high quality) microwave meals, and then you could also buy additional groceries if you wanted something specific, if you needed money for that (which you could just get sent to you by somebody outside prison) they had several jobs that paid decently considering we didn't actually need any money. Oh and people were totally still doing "the prison things" that you see in movies etc, trading their surplus of meals coffee etc for legit drugs that came from god knows where & making their own booze with bought fruits etc lol 😂 but it was all super laid back and everybody seemed pretty content with their situation, guards seemed super chill too and there was even a soccer tournament between guards and inmates for a crate of beer lol.
Dude, your heart is good and your brain works fine. I'd be happy to invite you to come live in Europe, but I think the US need people like you as future leaders to enforce change for the common good. Bless you.
I watched so many videos from Larry Lawton, his prison stories are INSANE! Prison in Atlanta mus be one of the worst places on earth :( Private prisons are an inhuman system Every penny you don't spend is the penny you take home after work. Some prisoners get food barely worth 50 cents so they gonna eat paper or whatever just of starvation. This is happening. Now. In the US. This is so heartbreaking and I really hope this will change one day. So so sad :(
Criminal justice basically has three different goals: -revenge (that warm feeling if bad things happen to bad people) -rehabilitation (preventing the prisoner to commit crimes in future) -deterrence (preventing other people to commit crimes) Unluckily, they three do not come hand in hand. They all require different approaches to be achieved. The approaches even partly contradict each other. It is completely ok to put the emphasis on punishment, like the US. However, you need to be prepared to pay the price: generally higher crime rates. It is a well examined and long time well known fact that "punish them hard, so the rest is deterred from committing crimes" does not work. To the contrary. Germany focuses on the second aspect. You may discuss whether criminals deserve that approach. However, you cannot dispute the success. Compare crime rates and prison costs (despite the German "luxury" in prisons) in Germany and the US. We learned the hard way 70 years ago, that it is a bad idea to incarcerate someone for being something (a bad person, a murderer, a pedophile, a criminal, ... , and in the end even a jew, a gypsy). It does not matter what someone is (that basically is a deeply American ideal that is betrayed in US-justice system), it is only important what someone _does_. As soon as you understood to distinguish the (possible evil) deed from the (deserving dignity) person, you know what to fight, you know how to proceed. Unluckily, also here in Germany, a lot of (usually clueless) "punish them hard, so the rest is deterred from committing crimes" apologists try to make things worse.
We Germans had the death penalty in earlier times, but it doesn't exist anymore. The reason being not that it's inhumaine, the main reason we don't have the death penalty anymore is simply that it's irreversable. Whereas a person who's been falsely in prison, and still treated with some degree of dignity can be released and compensated once they've been prooven innocent through new forensic breakthroughs. And because it's inhumane. I mean, the death penalty being inhumaine is some part of why we don't have it anymore, but a big chunk of the reasons is that it's irreversable.
to "XYZ is illegal in germany" - well not a prison sentence kind of thing though. I mean you differentiate, just like we do, between a felony, a crime and a misdemeanor. A felony will get you locked up for a long time, a crime for a short time, a misdemeanor not at all. In germany, several rules that inhibit speech like denying the holocaust wont get you locked up, you pay a fine and thats that
The water next to the fence is a pretty smart move. Makes you feel more comfortable and peasceful and at the same time probably improves the security, because there is another obstacle before the fencem which makes it harder to pass.
Death penalty was abolished in 1949 with the Grundgesetz. West -Berlin had some different rules, it was abolished in 1951 there and the last Person punished with dead was in May 1949. Last death penalty in the GDR was in 1981. Hesse had the death penalty in the state constitution until a constitutional change in 2018. Although Hesse had the death penalty in the constitution until 2018, it could not be used because the Constitutional Federal Law ranks higher.
Article 1(1) of the German Constitution: "Human dignity is inviolable. Respecting and protecting it is the duty of all state authority." These two sentences are the main reason why I consider the German constitution to be one of the best in the world, if not the best ever.
In the U.S., prisons are a business. We should not forget that. In Germany, the aim is to reintegrate the prisoners into society, which is a big difference. Every country has its own laws, and we should respect them. In Germany, human dignity is inviolable, Article 1 of the Basic Law, and it should stay that way.
If you treat the prisoners like monsters you should not be surprised when they come out as monsters. Also in Germany prison sentences are far shorter and you would probably get on parole the first time. In the US you Go to jail for anything if the judge has a bad day or does not like your haircut.
The first article of the German constitution says: "The ditnity of man is inviolable. To respect and protect it shall be the duty of all public authority." "The German people therefore acknowledge inviolable and inalienable human rights as the basis of every community, of peace and of justice in the world." "The following basic rights shall bind the legislature, the executive and the judiciary as directly applicable law." and then the finer details begin. This is, of course, to be seen before the background of the Nazi Regime. The first sentence in quotation marks above is the German equivalent to the US quotation of "live, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" - it is the best known quote from the constitution. And this has, of course, an influence on how the German prison system works. The idea is: If you become a criminal, something has gone wrong. A fairly "normal" person can be re-trained to better fit into society. That is what prison is for. There are, of course a few who will permanently stay aggressive or criminal in one way or another. If that is detected, they can, of course, be in prison literally for the rest of their lives. However, even they should be treated with the dignity that is the birth right of every single human being. And no, there is no capital punishment in Germany. There are Germans who would like to see the aspect of punishment more in the foreground. But up to now, the idea that Germany of all countries should not become even slightly authoritarian again, even in the prison system, has dominated the approach.
The death penalty does not exist in the UK , European Union and most Western countries. The USA stands alone and vilified by many , rightly so for keeping the death penalty.
Its kinda funny, here in Germeny we complain about our prisons because of the bad recidivism rate, but in this video its like we have the best prisons you can imagine. I guess the best ones are in scandinavia, especially Finland.
@@RandyMahnke ye maybe, but finland also have many "open" prisons where they go to work and live like in a shared flat. Norway have the best recidicism rate for sure.
The emphasis on human dignity (as can bee seen in Article 1 of the german constitution, it's our most important legal value that can override everything else) is a lesson from the crimes of the Nazis. They killed millions of people and that's horrible enough, but even more despicable was that they treated the inmates of the camps and ghettos like animals ("sub-humans" as they said). They didn't just wanted to kill them, they wanted to degrade and mentally destroy them as well. They denied them any form of dignity. That's why we put such an emphasis on this value, why we made it our most important legal principle, why we made it the highest redponsibility of the state to protect it. And that's also why our prisons look like this, because there is no justification whatsoever to deny anyone human dignity.
funfact about german laws regarding death sentence since you mentioned it at the beginning in one of the states of germany (bavaria) the state law includes the death sentence but the german federal law strictly forbids the death sentence therefor that state law is irrelevant but technically it still exists
u should see the norwegan prison one then. i think the biggest mistake the usa did, was allowing the prisons to become busnesses. in europe, the prisons are run by the state. not an co-operation.
What do you think will get better results for a society? 1) A hostile environment where staff and inmates are essentially forced to see each other as enemies, where violence and harsh discipline are normalised with little to no view to correcting anti-social behavioural disorders or helping inmates be ready to re-integrate into society on release ending up with a majority of inmates re-offending because they either have no other way to support themselves or they have become so institutionalised that they can no longer stand to be outside their familiar prison environment. 2) A correctional facility where staff work with inmates as fellow human beings to resolve the issues that brought them to prison in the first place while allowing access to training resources so that upon release they can support themselves without re-offending.
Have a look at the comparison made by the Black Forest Family, very informative. Fun fact which might make your jaw drop: The freedom of each individual is considered a human right in Germany. To take the personal freedom away is, according to our constitution, the last resort when it comes to punish a person (read: hold someone accountable) for criminal activity. That is why a prison break or the attempt to escape from prison is non-punishable. As a matter of fact, as an inmate you only get punished for the crimes you commit when trying to escape, like property damage, assault and battery, resisting law enforcement, theft, fraud, etc.
There is no death penalty in Germany anymore. It was abolished in the 50ies (West Germany) and 80ies (East Germany; but there weren't that many executions). I'm not sure, but I think it is one of the requirements to join the EU to have the death penalty abolished. Oh and there is a shortage on certain drugs to execute someone in the US, because the EU stopped the export as they were exclusively used for executions .
It's not about turning a prison into a circumfenced rehab. This goes way deeper into the basic assumptions about human nature: the good ones (us) vs. the evil ones. If you assume the villains can turn into good people you have to accept that we can turn bad as well.
Germany differs not only in the penal system from the USA, but also in the judicial system. Judges and public prosecutors in Germany are not elected by the people, but appointed by parliamentary committees. The appointment is for life. Therefore, e.g. the number of convictions or the severity of the judgments etc. has no influence on the career. The same applies to the police. We don't have sheriffs running for office.
I find it great that you try to compare the way prisoners being treated in diferent countrys! I think it's great (and unusual) that an American seriously wonders whether other countries might have solved some social issues better than the USA does... The USA is the only country in the "western world" where the death penalty is still imposed and carried out. Overall, I would describe the US penal system as a "revenge system", i.e. the state takes revenge on the perpetrator on behalf of the injured party. At the same time, there are other requirements in the USA: Since every adult there can buy as many firearms as they want (even criminals with previous convictions can easily obtain automatic weapons and military weapons at gun fairs and weapon exchanges), there are much more crimes in which firearms are used , which automatically means a higher penalty. That would also be e.g. B. in Germany the case. But in Germany, crimes involving the use of firearms play only a minor role... At the same time, the completely different approach of the prison system in Germany, the "promotion and correction" approach shows a far higher success rate than the "revenge and punishment" approach ", as he is persecuted in the USA. This is demonstrated by recidivism rates in the United States and the fact that no other Western country has anywhere near as many people in prison for every 1,000 people. A single look at crime statistics in the US also shows that the "deterrent effect" of the death penalty, always cited by its advocates, does not exist. In all of Germany there were 211 murders in 2022. In contrast, 280 people were murdered in New Orleans alone in the same year...
The data showing the results of a prison system should be - reoffending rate - percentage of prison inmates of the total population - amount of crimes committed in prisons - (perhaps a bit less) integration of the prisons in their communities
2:49 „Why is there a happy sun in German prison?“ Presumable to make in people smile (even if you feel like smiling, but move the mussels to smile, you brain thinks it is a little bit happier then without smiling) Also, you ALREADY TOOK from the prisoners one of most value thing (also valued by USA, I guess) FREEDOM. THAT is the punishment. But there is no need to torture. They lost all social contacts, (direct and smartphone) , they can not do what they want over each day. (I already hear people: I cannot do what I want over the day, I have to work.. well YOU can TRY CHANGE your life and do something else, they cannot)
The more videos I watch, the more I retrust in the US people. Shows me that there are not only people of these "America first" guys. People like you look at the right and at the left and see, that there is more. Keep on the good work and visit us. You are welcome. - Gereetings - A German.
The first article of the German constitution: Human dignity shall be inviolable. To respect and protect it shall be the duty of all state authority. Freedom and pursuit of happiness are important but not, if the human dignity is violated. So, free speech is forbidden if it can lead to an atmosphere where a part of the population gets discriminated.
On the question of the death penalty at 9:59 : Article 102 of the German constitution reads: "The death penalty is abolished." Fun fact: Some years ago there was a long discussion in Germany about the "final rescue shot". - "May a police officer shoot someone to death who threatens the lives of innocent people?" The question may sound absurd to some US police officers, but perhaps the person concerned could have been arrested alive. Then a death penalty (without a court decision) would not have been necessary.
In the USA people often judge with emotions, here it is strongly separated. It's more about rehabilitation and what's best for the country and it's people. None can decide where human dignity should stop, it's also more relaxed for both sides to work together in prison. Prison here aren't perfect, but they're ok and actually do a good job.
Our (The German) constitution was created after WWII ….so it is relatively new. The US constitution is over 250 years old…times change. And human dignity has a complete other standing now as it was 250 years ago. The us right to own a gun is based on that 250 year old constitution … so it might be that some of the problems with crime and criminals have their roots in a overaging constitution, and the people who are stuck in the swamp of their strange mind carousel that gun ownership is something that means freedom.
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if u want to rehabilitate people u need to show them that there is another way to live and not treat them bad
We don‘t have the death penalty in Germany. Belarus is the only country in Europe still imposing it. The last western european country carrying out the death penalty was France; they got rid of it in 1981 (since 2007 its even written in their constitution), the last execution was in 1977 (by Guillotine).
In order to fully understand where BDR (West Germany) and from 1990 also the eastern part of Germany have moved, I recommend this documentation. th-cam.com/video/wtV5ev6813I/w-d-xo.html shows the perspective of an American whose parents survived a german concentration camp. It is a TEDx contribution.
A big point of American prisons seems to be Amendment 13... you know, that involuntary servitude... well the earmark is: "except as a punishment for crime". And, of course, there is no death penalty in Germany. Some German federal states used to have it in their local constitution, but the Grundgesetz prohibits it. Fun fact it was a right wing party bringing it to the table when discussing the new Grundgesetz in 1948. Their intent was to stop executing Nazi criminals (Nuremberg Trials). The social democratic party (SPD) was against it in the first place, but changed their minds soon. Half of the members of the now big conservative party (CDU) voted for keeping death penalty.
@MoreJps Since you asked for videos that explain the differences in more detail. I saw the following videos some time ago and they made me think. It is about the comparison of Norwegian prisons with those of the USA. But since the Norwegian system is, in my view, just a further development of the German system, it makes the difference in understanding (revenge versus releasing a better person who hopefully won't go back to prison) even clearer. "Q158: Attica Prison USA v Halden Prison, Norway? - CR: Finnish Broadcasting Company YLE" "How Norway's Prisons Are Different From America's | NowThis" And if a longer video is also okay: This is the first video when the American prison warden travelled to Norway for the first time and was still very skeptical about the methods there. "The Norden - Nordic Prisons"
German Constitution, Article 1: "Human dignity shall be inviolable. To respect and protect it shall be the duty of all state authority."
I do not deny that sometimes, state authority violates this basic law, but all in all, the system works. Still, how ever nice they may make a prison, it's still a prison, and I wouldn't want to be there.
and the only thing US-citizens care about is the 2nd amendment 😅🤦♂
Exactly. Rhe punishment is the loss of freedom. No need for bad treatment as secondary punishment on top.
Something fun for the Americans who might not know but this article is a result of the Holocaust and is protected by the constitutions "eternity clause" (Article 79 Number 3 GG) which states that Article 1 (human dignity) and Article 20:
(1) The Federal Republic of Germany is a democratic and social federal state.
(2) All state authority is derived from the people. It shall be exercised by the people through elections and other votes and through specific legislative, executive and judicial bodies.
(3) The legislature shall be bound by the constitutional order, the executive and the judiciary by law and justice.
(4) All Germans shall have the right to resist any person seeking to abolish this constitutional order if no other remedy is available.
cannot be changed (Amendments to this Basic Law affecting the division of the Federation into Länder, their participation in principle in the legislative process, or the principles laid down in Articles 1 and 20 shall be inadmissible.). This is understood to also apply to any constitution that might succeed the Basic Law (for example by Article 146)
If you are interested in the Basic Law (the German Constitution) here is the official English translation: www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_gg/englisch_gg.html
@@prunabluepepper but pls, let us all agree, kid abusers should get way harder punishment...waaay harder...
@@aw3s0me12 Actually - they do. Many inmates in prisons have children of their own and don't like the thought of them being abused one bit. Child abusers usually don't exactly face happy times in prisons.
Fjodor Michailowitsch Dostojewski (1821 - 1881) said „A society's level of civilization can be gauged by the condition of its prisoners.“
Look at Dostojewskis country now. He truly was a man with a clear view!
@@gluteusmaximus1657Take a good look at US Prisons!
@@gluteusmaximus1657D̶o̶s̶t̶o̶j̶e̶w̶s̶k̶i̶ ̶w̶a̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶w̶r̶i̶t̶e̶r̶,̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶a̶ ̶p̶o̶l̶i̶t̶i̶c̶i̶a̶n̶.̶ ̶H̶o̶w̶ ̶d̶e̶n̶s̶e̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶c̶r̶i̶t̶i̶c̶i̶z̶e̶ ̶p̶e̶o̶p̶l̶e̶ ̶b̶e̶c̶a̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶i̶r̶ ̶n̶a̶m̶e̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶R̶u̶s̶s̶i̶a̶n̶ ̶e̶v̶e̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶o̶u̶g̶h̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶y̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶h̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶d̶o̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶w̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶i̶r̶ ̶g̶o̶v̶e̶r̶n̶m̶e̶n̶t̶ ̶d̶o̶e̶s̶.̶ ̶A̶n̶d̶ ̶2̶0̶0̶ ̶y̶e̶a̶r̶s̶ ̶a̶f̶t̶e̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶y̶'̶v̶e̶ ̶l̶i̶v̶e̶d̶ ̶t̶o̶o̶.̶ ̶M̶a̶k̶e̶s̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶n̶o̶ ̶b̶e̶t̶t̶e̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶n̶ ̶P̶u̶t̶i̶n̶ ̶o̶r̶ ̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶g̶r̶u̶n̶t̶s̶.̶
edit: misunderstanding
@@S.T.A.L.K.E.R.-Strelok If you say so Mylord. I did not criticize Mr. Dostojewski. I did not write that he is responsible for the russian mess. I wrote about the inhumane conditions in russian prisons! I pointed out that he had a clear view on the misery! You are shooting the messenger. Have a nice day. Slava Ukraine!
@@gluteusmaximus1657 If that's so I apologize for the severe misunderstanding and wish you a nice day as well.
I grew up thinking prisoners having „Freigang“ is a normal thing everywhere. In Germany, if you have been doing well in prison or are incarcerated for something minor, you are allowed to leave the prisons for the day (to visit family or get a job) and only have to return for the night and the weekends. There are different regulations, but essentially you get to slowly return to society although you are technically still serving a sentence. It makes so much sense to me and it was shocking to realize this is not normal everywhere.
America used to have something similar to „Freigang“ but it was discontinued after the infamous Willie Horton case. In 1987 a murder named Willie Horton was given a pass to leave the prison and visit his family outside of prison on the condition he would return to prison in a few days. Horton was in the middle of a sentence he was serving out for a murder in 1974. However on his leave from prison he committed 2 more murders. The prison system's reaction to the Willie Horton murders was to permanently end the prison leave system. Criminals who abuse the system is the reason we can't have nice things in America.
Very less prisoners have Freigang, can leave the jail in between
Treat them like people and when they re-enter society, they won't be psycologially messed up by the prison experience. American's often say "wow, this looks great" but would you really trade your freedom? Years from your life? If the answer is still yes. I'd be really concerned about what regular life in your country is like. The problem then isn't the prisons being too nice - its regular life out in society needs improvement.
yep. I like to see it this way: the prisoners will be released eventually. They'll be someone's neighbour eventually. And I'd rather have a ex-prisoner who's mentally stable than one who's traumatized and will be more likely to return to crime
I was thinking that, if this looks good by American living standards, then what does that suggest about how Americans are living?
I highly doubt many Europeans would want to be locked up in prison, even with them being much nicer places to live than American prisons.
Maybe the quality of living in European countries is so much better than what Americans are accustomed too, that they see these prisons as actually quite good and something like a normal life that in some cases, is better than what the American poor get, even with being free.
It's a crazy situation, but it tells you a lot about the society of a country and it's people in how they see things and clearly, Europe, especially EU countries are doing something right when it comes to quality of living, rights and putting people first.
@@paul1979uk2000 well, German prisons are so good, that some homeless people actually commit petty crimes to be caught and sent to prison at times.
But „real prisoners“ tend to say things like „being away from your family and friends is the punishment, not the prison itself“. And just thinking about it, I have to agree with that.
@@jennyh4025 sounds like a mental health issue too. Someone that WANTS to be in jail. Things aren’t good for them. Society should step up.
@@dannyf1168 someone else described this very well in another comment. Sometimes people are not ready to take on life outside of prison (then they can actually ask for a room in a prison until they feel fit for it) or they need stability (or just a safe place for some weeks or months) so they try to achieve it this way.
When they really need mental health care that goes beyond „how to live a normal life“, they should be able to get that care outside of the prison system, because it’s covered by the statutory health insurance (and private insurance in Germany is required to cover at least the same). I know psychologists and psychiatrist are rare, but they and their care (as well as in and out patient institutions) are covered by the insurance.
Our whole legal system is VERY different.
We do not have jurys.
We do not have jails.
We do not have bail.
We do not have bounty (hunters).
We do not have executions.
We do not have unpaid, forced prison labour (slavery).
The idea that human dignity is inviolable works, not perfect and not always...
BUT
it is a cornerstone of our understanding of civiliasitaion.
The american system is "barbaric" in my opinion.
I'm German too, and is it normal that I count the US as a second world country when I feel generous, and as a third world country normally? Because that's my actual damn thought.
The American way is in fact barbaric. America is a failed society in my opinion. I like the culture, but i hate the way they work their country as a hole.
The loss of freedom (to do what you decide, go where you decide) is the punishment in civilised countries.
For a good video on this topic lookup: "Germany: Low Crime, Clean Prisons, Lessons for America | Jeff Rosen | TEDxMountainViewHighSchool"
One of the best videos I know about this topic.
Yeah, it’s a great video. All American People should watch it. Explains everything!
In German courts, they take the "in dubio pro reo" (doubt must benefit the accused) very seriously. If they can't prove 100% that somebody is guilty, they have to let them go. They also can't keep somebody in custody for years without a trial. Also, very few people stay in prison their entire life; those sentenced to "life in prison" (lebenslänglich) usually get paroled after 15 years (unless they are a danger to society, like, say, serial killers, in which case they get something called "Sicherheitsverwahrung", meaning that, once they have done their sentence, they have to stay in prison and ask for parole every year or so). Also, they can't give you more time for escaping or trying to escape, the desire to be free is not punishable. If they catch you, you go back to prison and you only get internal punishment (inside the prison) like having to stay inside your cell for 2 weeks or a month without contact to other inmates (solitary confinement longer than a month is not allowed). The first article of the German constitution says that human dignity is inviolable.
On paper they take it seriously, yeah .. But in reality, innocent people are put in jail all over the world by prosecutors who want to portray well by "solved" cases, corrupt judges, prejudices, whatever.... Spiegel reported such a case in Germany just yesterday. And in Germany, a lot of fare dodgers are in jail because they are too poor to pay the 60 euro fine. There are also many political prisoners in Germany, e.g. in Bavaria, who are imprisoned without any charges. It's called "Polizeiaufgabengesetz" and is absolutely dystopian.
They can’t give you more time for (trying to) escape, just for every crime you commit during your escape (destruction of property, stealing anything or - in bad cases - taking hostages, to name a few).
@@jennyh4025 of course, if you commit crimes while on the run, you will be sued for those, too.
"In German courts" are judges very different between each other, especially what "100% prove" means in reality. As well sometimes the scientists examining footage overestimate their ability to derive what has happened.
Many prisons in Germany have been built in the 19th century and are still dark places due to their architecture. Cells are too small and some sort of classrooms are not sufficient. And it is not guaranteed that an inmate will serve his sentence nearby his family. If a sentence to be in prison "for the rest of life" is given and the guilt is considered as very deep and heavy, a parole after 15 years is nearly impossible. Those inmates stay in prison for 22 years in avarage. But there are cases who do not want to leave after 30 or more years in prison, they fear freedom in a world they do not know or understand anymore.
I think the video you reacted to is a bit bright about prisons in Germany. At least youth criminals are separated from the adults and most youth prisons are more modern.
@@LarsPW you forgot one important thing that was not mentioned in the video (as far as I remember): in Germany prisoners usually get to leave their cells for more than an hour or two per day (which is the norm in most US prisons as far as I know).
I think you should watch how prisons in Finland and Norway are. One of the most stupid things to me is that in the USA you lose the ability to vote, you should be able to influence the things that drove you to crime in the first place imo.
Well, in Germany incarceration is seen as punishment enough for the prisoners, since it strips them from one of the (if not THE), most important aspects of life: Freedom.
Viel zu lasch. Die Menschen, die z.B. morden, Kinder missbrauchen also schlimme Straftaten begehen, sollten härter bestraft werden und nicht so einen komfortablen Aufenthalt im Gefängnis haben.
Exactly, the punishment is the lost of freedom, not the lost of being a human.
Loss of freedom and loss of regular (daily) contact with their loved ones.
@@jennyh4025 The second one is the result of the first one.
@@danilopapais1464 it is, but it is felt on a different level.
The fact is, in Germany the prisoners got help from pshychologists, social worker. So they will have a better Start into the free life.
Which is the sensible thing to do, isn’t it. You wouldn’t want them to be worse when they get out.
@@asmodon Rehabilitation is a Great Concept
People are also not thrown out of a prison after serving their sentence without social services a) preparing them and b) leaving them stranded at the prison gate with no money and nowhere to go.
Usually if you have a short prison sentence of a few months you don't even lose the apartment and the social services pay the rent.
@@JaniceHope as a german hope you dont end up inocnent in prsion the german justice system dosn like to admit wrongs even tries to block exonerations and in prison all the nice hings like therapy, jobs early relasse ec you only get if you admit your wrong wich you cant if you are inocent and the compensation you get if wrongfull convcited is a joke if you can even get it prisons in germany have their own flaws and failures but still at last we try too
fix offenders not with 23 hours 7 days a week solitary confinment for years and being surprised the mentaly broken offender cant cope in freedom and is back next week after murder or assault of a felow citizen
you have to consider: some people make once a mistake in their life. The deserve a chance and should be treaten like humans. Some will be better persons after the prison. In the States the rate of prisoners who will get again into prision is MUCH higher!
especially because the goal should be, at least for the 95% who are not complete psychopaths, to rehabilitate and reintegrate them into society. It's even more important in the most cases than the actual punishment itself. otherwise they are way more likely to commit any crime again, as you mentioned.
In Germany you are not punished for trying to escape Prison, because the wish for freedom is so essential, that you should not be punished for it.
You can be punished for any illegal action you perform during an (attempted) escape though ;)
E.g. breaking a window ... Steal clothing ... (What if German prisons would have uniforms for insiders scenario: If you leave the prison area while u wear their given clothing. you have already stolen clothing's of the prison ) Simple thought even for USCs (US Citizens, I personally deny to use the term American for any country bc america are 2 continents with 10+ countries like Bolivia or Peru. The US can give themselves an actual name or use the US and mentioned USCs for them.)
true, you can't get punished just for getting out if you don't damage or steal anything / commit other crimes to get out.
German Prisons are not build to punish people, like US Prisons. They are primarily build to rehabilitate people and prepare them for a normal life in our society. And I personally think this is a great way of dealing with criminals. No one commits a crime because they want to. Normally they do, because they feel they have to for some reason.
Especialyl as we also want them to have a place afterwards. Fortunately, we no longer have to deal with people that got sent to jail in the GDR, but even so - if you went to jail in 2010 or so, good luck surviving in the modern world without preparation.
That's not entirely true. Punishment and protection of society from dangerous individuals are still just as important reasons. But other than in other countries in Germany rehabilitation is not thrown out the window or made much less likely. Of course incarceration is meant as a punishment. But not being able to move freely, being confined to a small room, no luxuries, is already punishment. No need to further humiliate or further brutality inmates. Think if parents punishing their children for wrong doings or overstepping. Yes, they get a punishment, but at the same time the parents don't want to destroy them or permanently damage them.
The worst sentence you can get in Germany is Sicherheitsverwahrung. That means you stay in prison after you served your sentence. You have more freedoms than regular prisoners, since you're not a prisoner. But you will never leave the prison because it's almost guaranteed that you'll repeat the crime that brought you there.
Now, you won't get that for shoplifting or drug taking or selling. Not even if that's the first thing you do everytime you get out. Your stint in prison might get longer the more often you appear in front of the judge, but that's about it.
Sentencing you to spend your life imprisoned even after you served the maximum penalty for the crime you committed is basically going against the first article of the constitution. It violates your dignity. Yet for the sake of society (everyone else's dignity, if you will) you can't be let out again.
I'm glad we don't kill people. The state shouldn't have the power to decide that. They're only humans, too. They make mistakes.
You can get out of prison, you can't come out of a grave.
The target of prisons in Scandinavia and Germany is to develop the inmate in the direction of a reliable member of society.
Therefore the staff represent role modells and they are partners to achieve this goal.
Of course this will not work with every single criminal but you have to try at least.
In the end the rate of persons being released from prison and caught again with new acts of violence or crime is significant lower than in the States.
I saw a doco on what you’ve said.
Not only Scandinavia and Germany, also Switzerland I'm pretty sure in many European countries as well.
@@rast Yeah it's pretty much like that in every EU country, probably some EU law.
One big difference: Our judges, police officers and prosecutors are not elected, but appointed. Judges are selected by a committee of judges and then stay judges for life (except for those at the constitutioal court, who stay for 12 years) and police officers and prosecutors are civil servants. They do not have to appear to be "hard on crime" to get reelected. Prosecutors have by law to also consider evidence which points towards a suspect's innocence and have to close investigations if there is not sufficient evidence to point towards guilt.
While prison time is something you spend because of a crime you committed, in Germany we concentrate on re-socialization and not so much on punishment, while the US prisons seem only concentrating on the latter, but never forget that even in Germany your freedom is taken away for the time you spend in prison, but the intention is not to break you, but to build you up again.
Oh dear, Joel, things must be going through a rough patch if a comfy prison begins to look attractive! The UK prison system is not great but it is surely a matter of trying to apply intelligence. The purpose of prisons is to punish, to protect the general population and finally to rehabilitate. The German and Scandinavians do this much more successfully than the UK or US. There is no death penalty throughout Europe
@@Michael_from_EU_Germany Belarus, run by a quasi dictator and assisted Russia in the invasion of Ukraine, I suppose one should have expected that
@@dereknewbury163 Though, e.g. in Russia, the death penalty does not exist, but the prisons itself are some specific kind of hell
The situation of not being free is the punishment in Germany. Once I met a former prisoner and he said it was painful not being free and the feeling of being locked.......no matter what you can do inside the prison
There's a TedX talk about German prisons. It's about 23 minutes long and is called "Germany: Low Crime, Clean Prisons, Lessons for America | Jeff Rosen | TEDxMountainViewHighSchool". The video is 6 years old, so some of the data might be dated, but I found it pretty good.
Yep. I also wanted to recommend it :)
Glad you reacted to the prison system. :) I recommend a TedTalk from Jeff Rosen about German prisons. This talk might be a bit longer than a typical reaction video but I guess many viewers would be happy if you give it a shot. And there are other great videos of scandinavien prisons too. :)
I second that!
Agreed, that's a great video! Especially when he talks about his Jewish background and family, and how impressed he was by the "never again" attitude.
Prison in Germany is not mainly about punishment, it’s to teach them to be better persons. This works only with relationships and social workers and psychologists.
I worked with prisoners in a psychiatric hospital.
There is no death penalty in Germany, nor in the European Union (the German government even refuses to send the drugs that were used for lethal injections in executions to the USA; the USA now use a different drug, since Germany is the only producer of that particular drug). Here is a good documentary about the maximum security prison in Aachen:
th-cam.com/video/UFlousfjsA4/w-d-xo.html
You're right, it's not only about prisons but many, many more differences affecting the society as a whole. US Americans are being raised with this "The USA is the greatest country in the world and we know best!" idea -- but in order to improve you need to take a step back, reflect and look at things from another perspective. Always looking away and ignoring your own imperfections won't improve anything, you need to be willing to learn from others.
And so do we in other countries. We don't need to blame or mock each other, if someone has a good idea so be it, its ok.
@@seventone4039 everyone has to learn, but I think the emphasis in the comment was more on the unwillingness of the „America is the greatest country on earth“ majority to look at other countries and maybe learn from them. For many of these people it unpatriotic to even think that other countries might be on to something better.
While the majority of Germans (and others) I have met tend to love to criticize their own country while hoping to find ways to improve their country.
6:58 "There is emphasis on human dignity when it comes to legislation in Germany" - It is our Prime Directive, the Article 1 of Germany's Constitution.
I was in prison in the Netherlands for a short time. It´s much the same as this looks. The point is you loose your freedom. But on the other hand you will come back in society one day. So it´s important to make that gap as small as possible. At least for the small offenders.
The first sentence of our constitution reds: "The dignity of man is untouchable. To respect and protect it is the obligation of all state power."
With prisons run by commercial, private businesses, the system has a keen interest in keeping people incarcerated.
Art. 102 of our constitution explicitely forbids the death penalty.
Yep, this system was well explained in must see documentary "13th".
1. We don't have a death penalty in Germany (generally forbidden in the EU) 2. It doesn't mean that rehabilitation always works but it's always worth a try. I would be much more scared living next door to an ex-con knowing they had a terrible time in prison without any counseling.
in the US justice system, its way easier to get someone innocent convicted, i think. Why? cause guilty or not guilty is ruled over by average people, your "peers" that have no idea about the law, about human pychology, manipulation or anything to do with how to judge a person. On top they wanna go home and are incentivised to reach a conclusion, not the right or fair one but just the one they can agree on the quickest.
In germany, guilty or not guilty is decided by actual proffessionals - 3 judges. THEY know the law, they know how to judge a person, they arent manipulated by speeches from lawyers or emotional stories. They care for the facts and nothing else making it, in my oppinion, way more reliable and fair.
is it perfect? nah but i think its the better option
Well, not exactly.
It depends on the crime and the court you are dealing with, but usually you have in case of minor offenses just a single (professional) judge and in cases with cimes, that can be punished harder, there will be two "Schöffen" (two civilians without any law-background, a little like jury-men) next to one (Amtsgericht: Schöffengericht; Landgericht: Kleine Strafkammer), two (Landgericht: Große Strafkammer) or three (Landgericht: Schwurgericht) professional judges (to have some "common sense" among the judging persons, not just ones who live in an "ivory tower").
@@ReisskIaue well that is true, i was in my mind looking at felony charges that can end up with life in prison. minor offenses usuallly arent brought to court at all and a judge rules in your absence - which you then can challenge and demand an actual process but that doesnt happen that often
It happens quite often that homeless, hopeless and helpless people "go back" into the prison, because their life there is sometimes "better" than outside. You have a room, get something to eat and psychological support. It is also possible in Germany to go to prison voluntarily - if there is room. Reason for this: If you feel yourself outside in danger (to not be ready and risk getting in trouble again), you can go back to protect yourself from getting reoffended. And - it's free.
Thank you for explaining this so well, I didn’t remember all of it!
To me this feels like an unlikely but very well developed additional safety net in our society.
The punishment is the lost of freedom. Not to live in really bad conditions.
Well it's not so much focused on "punishment" but more on "rehabilitation". What good does punishing someone do if they just commit the next crime afterwards? ;)
@@pascalnitsche8746 the thread of punishment prevents some crime. The focus in prison should be on rehabilitation.
It's retaliation against rehabilitation. Of course in comparison to Norway, Germany also has a long way to go.
difference in the number of population
Once in this area, too, the Scandinavians are a step ahead of us. Posts about their prisons are also very interesting.
Australia was once one big prison but we made good. We still call English people coming to Australia POME which stands for Prisoner Of Mother England
Don't let this fool you. I have worked in two German prisons, and one Forensic Psychiatry Clinic they were old gruesome places. The prisoners/patients are well treated , but the buildings were depressing.
In Germany it's not about locking someone away until they come out vertically. But to give him time to think about his actions, to rehabilitate him and to reintegrate him into society. Whereby that also his probation officer is provided to the side.
btw if you think that is crazy, have your mind blown by norway. they dont even lock up prisoners but let them live in their own villages with houses and aparments
Not really, only some prisoners get those conditions. If they have not committed serious crimes, and if they have behaved well they can access those so called open prisons for the last bit of the sentence. I have worked a few months in one of the high security Norwegian prisons 23 years ago. It was no kindergarten I can tell you that much. Well over half the the inmates were foreigners from east Europe, Africa and Asia. A lot of depression among the prisoners, one had aids and was in an isolation ward, probably died soon after I left. It was a depressing place to be, even the guards was depressed. But the general attitude was to help the prisoners to prepare for a life after they were released. So prisoners could choose to work in three different jobs, carpentry, metal works or fabrics. Or they could choose to get educated, a school system was implemented there.
Death penalty doesn't exist in the EU, membership is prohibited if a country doesn't respect human rights. Most countries even abolished death penalty during war and for war crimes.
A really good topic for further exploration Joel. Its theme could be Kathi Misandrie's quote of Fjodor Michailowitsch Dostojewski (1821 - 1881) "A society's level of civilization can be gauged by the condition of its prisoners.“ John in Canada
Our legal systems are based on different principles.
In America, someone is guilty until proven innocent.
In Germany, someone is innocent until proven guilty.
And our prisons are designed for rehabilitation, not punishment. Doesn't always work, but in many cases better education and training prevents people from recidivism.
It may be that in Germany the system was changed because in the Hitler era anyone could be imprisoned or worse for far-fetched reasons.
Through false accusations of the alleged victims, and false testimony, it can still happen, but people rarely go to jail here today who are not guilty.
This is partly because witnesses are looked at more closely after a number of cases have come to light in recent decades where false testimony led to convictions, and partly because investigative methods have improved. It is precisely through DNA evidence that many a person is subsequently exonerated.
That Sun you say I reckon it’s a flower
Fun fact: it actually isn't illegal to escape from prison in Germany as long as you don't break other laws - because freedom is considered a basic human instinct. So you won't get an extra punishment for that if you are getting caught. That being said, you most likely need to do some illegal things to get out in the first place (blackmailing, destroying things, taking someone hostage, using a weapon, etc.) and for that you get charges of course. But I think it's fascinating and shows the respect Germany shows prisoners by viewing them as human beings with basic needs and insticts and rights of course (which as others have already pointed out is manifested in Article 1 of the German Constitution).
None of these (very few) 'inside prison images' that are in this video represent the average german prison!
But yes, the prison-system in Europe is quite different than in the US. Prisons are never ever in no way run by private companies and there is no need to make money out of that 'business'
Definitely no Death penalty in Germany!
In 2016, the United States had the highest prison and jail population (2,121,600 in adult facilities in 2016), and the highest incarceration rate in the world
655 per 100,000 people in 2016
incarceration rate of Canada is
104 per 100,000 (as of 2018),
England and Wales is 130 per 100,000 (as of 2021),
[and Australia is 160 per 100,000 (as of 2020).
Comparing other developed countries,
the rate of Spain is 122 per 100,000 (as of 2020),
France is 90 per 100,000 (as of 2020),
Germany is 69 per 100,000 (as of 2020),
Norway is 49 per 100,000 (as of 2020),
Netherlands is 63 per 100,000 (as of 2018),
and Japan is 38 per 100,000 (as of 2019). (Source Wikipedia)
The punishment is the removal from society itself. There shouldn’t be extra punishment inside the prisons.
I am unsure how this is in Germany, but in The Netherlands, a judge can also sentence a defendant to be forcefully put into a mental facility. We call it "Terbeschikkingstelling", or "TBS". It basically means a judge deems you mentally unfit to participate in society, and you need forced mental health care. Technically, the maximum prison sentence is 20 years in our country, but this TBS can be extended indefinitely based on psychiatric evaluations, and is sometimes a harsher sentence than going to prison. And these mental facilities sometimes have worse living conditions than the prisons too, so you are usually worse off if you get this sentence.
Usually, for harsher crimes, a judge will deal out a mixed sentence btw. So you would get for example 4 years in prison and 2 years of TBS as a sentence if you murder someone. But effectively that could mean 5 years in prison and a life-long TBS sentence. Everything is focused on re-integration into society, but if you are deemed unfit to re-integrate, you WILL remain locked up for life...
We had this topic a lot.
The goal of German prison - rehabilitation and reintegration into society.
The goal of the US prisons is punishment.
If the German prisons amaze you already have a look a prisons in Finland.😅
The whole dignity part.
After the horrific actions of Germany during WW2 when the federal republic of Germany was founded in 1949 it was important to not let something like this happen again. So the first article of our constitution reads:
Human dignity shall be inviolable. To respect and protect it shall be the duty of all state authority.
The freedom in Germany is also different.
In the US, freedom of speech is giving politicians money to sway opinion. In Germany, that's bribery.
In the US it is freedom of speech to insult others. In Germany, insulting others is not covered by personal freedom because it violates dignity. Therefore, Holocaust denial is also a criminal offense and not freedom of speech.
In Germany, human dignity is higher than personal freedom!
That's what the first sentence of our constitution says: "Human dignity is inviolable."
Sentence 2 says that everyone has the right to develop freely as long as they do not restrict others or violate the state.
Sentence 3 says that all people are equal and that men and women should be treated equally.
Someone once said it very well:
In the USA I have freedom to do things (say whatever I want, run around with a firearm in public,…)and in Germany I have freedom from (fear of healthcare debt, hate speech, people going into public buildings to shoot others,…).
It my be my upbringing, but I prefer the freedom from that I get in Germany
Human Dignity is in the first paragraph of the first article of the German constitution. All the court rulings regardingthe prison system are referencing that. I guess it’s hard to just transplant that to the US.
Grundgesetz (German Constituion) Article 1: "Human dignity is inviolable. It is the duty of all state power to respect and protect it."
This is taken very seriously in Germany. At 06:46, Joel says exactly the right thing. Yes, the victims of the Nazis have a right to have their life stories recognized and the crimes not to be denied. That too is a form of human dignity.
There is no death penalty (Article 102 german Constitution).
Children (under the age of 14) will not be brought to justice if they commit crimes.
Juveniles (usually under the age of 18) are not punished like adults, regardless of the crime committed.
The essence of imprisonment is the protection of society and the rehabilitation of the criminal so that he is no longer a danger and can live a life free of crime. Everyone has the right to live in freedom, if it is possible (There is no penalty for prison break). Probation is possible with any sentence.
Nobody should die in prison, very old prisoners are supposed to go to Retirement homes so that they can live out their last years in freedom. Old sick people are usually no longer a danger. It's not about revenge.
The system is not perfect, but there are many fewer people who become criminals again than in the USA, for example. Norway has an even more humane penal system.
I think it's very good that Joel addresses such a serious and important topic. I wish to be able to welcome him to Germany. Joel, you are a great person
A few facts about the USA prison system:
1) 1/4 of all people incarcerated worldwide are incarcerated in the USA.
2) The USA (336 million people) have locked up 4 times as many people as the autoritarian country of China with a population of 1.4 billion. So much for the "land of the free".
3) The privatization of prisons has led to a system where the prisons want to lock up as many people for as long as possible to squeeze more profit out of them.
4) The mistreatment and lack of support for prisoners has turned the US prisons into violent, dangerous places - which is intentional btw.
5) The removal of civil rights and the lack of job opportunities for ex-prisoners combined with the horrible extortion and abuse many ex-prisoners suffer at the hands of their communities and especially their bosses at work even if they manage to find a job forces many right back into criminal activity just to survive.
In short - the whole "justice" system in the USA is designed to produce as many hardened criminals as quickly as possible so that the corporations, their CEOs and shareholders running the prisons can rake in as much profit as possible.
PS: According to some statistics about 22 % of the inmates in US prisons are acutally innocent.
The death penalty does not exist in Australia. Ronald Ryan was the last man hanged in Australia, 56 years ago in 1967.
Norway seems to have the best Prison system world wide. Most inmates doesnt come back bc they get the help meeded for betterment
Have a look at the prison system in Norway. You will be shocked.
but it is the right approach! I've seen a doc about the "prison" for young people
situated on an island. The interviews were really great, by prisoners and their guards!
@@juttaweise Ich sage ja auch gar nicht, dass es der falsche Ansatz ist, nur dass es ihn schockt, wenn der deutsche Ansatz ihn schon so erstaunt. 😉
@@Stami604 jaja, so hatte ich es auch verstanden. Aber das ist ja auch so eine Masche von ihm in all seinen Videos, der deutsche Markt ist enorm und falls er das als "Beruf" macht umsomehr. Er liest auch nur sporadisch unsere Kommentare hab ich festgestellt. Naja, er ist jung und es sei ihm gegönnt.
Spent some (thankfully short) time in a Dutch prison a couple years ago, while not quite on par with Germany either it was still surprisingly nice, honestly better then some hotels i've been too... Was on a 2 person shared cell and we had:
- our own bathroom with shower included in our cell
- proper beds with nice mattress and pillows
- 2 flat screen tv's (one for each of us lmao)
- a fridge, microwave, toaster, water cooker & phone (that could call to anywhere, we got some cards to use them for x amount of time a week)
- proper cutlery etc too (which honestly surprised me, steak knives and all..?!)
- laundry service 3x a week
And then there was also a "common room" in each cell block with full blown kitchen with gas burners and oven and fryer etc & also a big ass tv with several game consoles, plus a computer with internet we could request access too, so really it was better then some hotels, you just weren't allowed outside lol.
2ce a week we would get 'standard groceries' which would be coffee, tea, sugar, milk, bread, cheese meat and sweet stuff for on bread, smokes (if a smoker) and 4-5 (high quality) microwave meals, and then you could also buy additional groceries if you wanted something specific, if you needed money for that (which you could just get sent to you by somebody outside prison) they had several jobs that paid decently considering we didn't actually need any money.
Oh and people were totally still doing "the prison things" that you see in movies etc, trading their surplus of meals coffee etc for legit drugs that came from god knows where & making their own booze with bought fruits etc lol 😂 but it was all super laid back and everybody seemed pretty content with their situation, guards seemed super chill too and there was even a soccer tournament between guards and inmates for a crate of beer lol.
Dude, your heart is good and your brain works fine. I'd be happy to invite you to come live in Europe, but I think the US need people like you as future leaders to enforce change for the common good. Bless you.
I watched so many videos from Larry Lawton, his prison stories are INSANE! Prison in Atlanta mus be one of the worst places on earth :(
Private prisons are an inhuman system Every penny you don't spend is the penny you take home after work. Some prisoners get food barely worth 50 cents so they gonna eat paper or whatever just of starvation.
This is happening. Now. In the US. This is so heartbreaking and I really hope this will change one day.
So so sad :(
If your Prisons made a lot of money out of the prisoners it s necessary to fill them. *sacasm off
Take a look at prisons in Norway. American prisons is about dehumanization instead of rehibilitation. Sad but true.
That sun I think is a flower
Criminal justice basically has three different goals:
-revenge (that warm feeling if bad things happen to bad people)
-rehabilitation (preventing the prisoner to commit crimes in future)
-deterrence (preventing other people to commit crimes)
Unluckily, they three do not come hand in hand. They all require different approaches to be achieved. The approaches even partly contradict each other.
It is completely ok to put the emphasis on punishment, like the US. However, you need to be prepared to pay the price: generally higher crime rates. It is a well examined and long time well known fact that "punish them hard, so the rest is deterred from committing crimes" does not work. To the contrary.
Germany focuses on the second aspect. You may discuss whether criminals deserve that approach. However, you cannot dispute the success. Compare crime rates and prison costs (despite the German "luxury" in prisons) in Germany and the US.
We learned the hard way 70 years ago, that it is a bad idea to incarcerate someone for being something (a bad person, a murderer, a pedophile, a criminal, ... , and in the end even a jew, a gypsy). It does not matter what someone is (that basically is a deeply American ideal that is betrayed in US-justice system), it is only important what someone _does_. As soon as you understood to distinguish the (possible evil) deed from the (deserving dignity) person, you know what to fight, you know how to proceed.
Unluckily, also here in Germany, a lot of (usually clueless) "punish them hard, so the rest is deterred from committing crimes" apologists try to make things worse.
We Germans had the death penalty in earlier times, but it doesn't exist anymore. The reason being not that it's inhumaine, the main reason we don't have the death penalty anymore is simply that it's irreversable. Whereas a person who's been falsely in prison, and still treated with some degree of dignity can be released and compensated once they've been prooven innocent through new forensic breakthroughs.
And because it's inhumane. I mean, the death penalty being inhumaine is some part of why we don't have it anymore, but a big chunk of the reasons is that it's irreversable.
to "XYZ is illegal in germany" - well not a prison sentence kind of thing though. I mean you differentiate, just like we do, between a felony, a crime and a misdemeanor. A felony will get you locked up for a long time, a crime for a short time, a misdemeanor not at all.
In germany, several rules that inhibit speech like denying the holocaust wont get you locked up, you pay a fine and thats that
@@Michael_from_EU_Germany well sure but the same happens if you keep refusing to pay a fine for speeding
The water next to the fence is a pretty smart move. Makes you feel more comfortable and peasceful and at the same time probably improves the security, because there is another obstacle before the fencem which makes it harder to pass.
Death penalty was abolished in 1949 with the Grundgesetz.
West -Berlin had some different rules, it was abolished in 1951 there and the last Person punished with dead was in May 1949.
Last death penalty in the GDR was in 1981.
Hesse had the death penalty in the state constitution until a constitutional change in 2018.
Although Hesse had the death penalty in the constitution until 2018, it could not be used because the Constitutional Federal Law ranks higher.
Article 1(1) of the German Constitution:
"Human dignity is inviolable. Respecting and protecting it is the duty of all state authority."
These two sentences are the main reason why I consider the German constitution to be one of the best in the world, if not the best ever.
In the U.S., prisons are a business. We should not forget that.
In Germany, the aim is to reintegrate the prisoners into society, which is a big difference.
Every country has its own laws, and we should respect them. In Germany, human dignity is inviolable, Article 1 of the Basic Law, and it should stay that way.
If you treat the prisoners like monsters you should not be surprised when they come out as monsters.
Also in Germany prison sentences are far shorter and you would probably get on parole the first time.
In the US you Go to jail for anything if the judge has a bad day or does not like your haircut.
The first article of the German constitution says:
"The ditnity of man is inviolable. To respect and protect it shall be the duty of all public authority."
"The German people therefore acknowledge inviolable and inalienable human rights as the basis of every community, of peace and of justice in the world."
"The following basic rights shall bind the legislature, the executive and the judiciary as directly applicable law."
and then the finer details begin.
This is, of course, to be seen before the background of the Nazi Regime.
The first sentence in quotation marks above is the German equivalent to the US quotation of "live, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" - it is the best known quote from the constitution.
And this has, of course, an influence on how the German prison system works.
The idea is:
If you become a criminal, something has gone wrong. A fairly "normal" person can be re-trained to better fit into society. That is what prison is for.
There are, of course a few who will permanently stay aggressive or criminal in one way or another. If that is detected, they can, of course, be in prison literally for the rest of their lives. However, even they should be treated with the dignity that is the birth right of every single human being.
And no, there is no capital punishment in Germany.
There are Germans who would like to see the aspect of punishment more in the foreground. But up to now, the idea that Germany of all countries should not become even slightly authoritarian again, even in the prison system, has dominated the approach.
It’s not about punishment, it’s about resocialization.
The death penalty does not exist in the UK , European Union and most Western countries. The USA stands alone and vilified by many , rightly so for keeping the death penalty.
Its kinda funny, here in Germeny we complain about our prisons because of the bad recidivism rate, but in this video its like we have the best prisons you can imagine. I guess the best ones are in scandinavia, especially Finland.
It's widely known that Norway has the best prisons, maybe you mixed them up?
@@RandyMahnke ye maybe, but finland also have many "open" prisons where they go to work and live like in a shared flat. Norway have the best recidicism rate for sure.
The emphasis on human dignity (as can bee seen in Article 1 of the german constitution, it's our most important legal value that can override everything else) is a lesson from the crimes of the Nazis. They killed millions of people and that's horrible enough, but even more despicable was that they treated the inmates of the camps and ghettos like animals ("sub-humans" as they said). They didn't just wanted to kill them, they wanted to degrade and mentally destroy them as well. They denied them any form of dignity.
That's why we put such an emphasis on this value, why we made it our most important legal principle, why we made it the highest redponsibility of the state to protect it. And that's also why our prisons look like this, because there is no justification whatsoever to deny anyone human dignity.
funfact about german laws regarding death sentence since you mentioned it at the beginning
in one of the states of germany (bavaria) the state law includes the death sentence but the german federal law strictly forbids the death sentence therefor that state law is irrelevant but technically it still exists
u should see the norwegan prison one then. i think the biggest mistake the usa did, was allowing the prisons to become busnesses. in europe, the prisons are run by the state. not an co-operation.
What do you think will get better results for a society?
1) A hostile environment where staff and inmates are essentially forced to see each other as enemies, where violence and harsh discipline are normalised with little to no view to correcting anti-social behavioural disorders or helping inmates be ready to re-integrate into society on release ending up with a majority of inmates re-offending because they either have no other way to support themselves or they have become so institutionalised that they can no longer stand to be outside their familiar prison environment.
2) A correctional facility where staff work with inmates as fellow human beings to resolve the issues that brought them to prison in the first place while allowing access to training resources so that upon release they can support themselves without re-offending.
Have a look at the comparison made by the Black Forest Family, very informative.
Fun fact which might make your jaw drop:
The freedom of each individual is considered a human right in Germany. To take the personal freedom away is, according to our constitution, the last resort when it comes to punish a person (read: hold someone accountable) for criminal activity. That is why a prison break or the attempt to escape from prison is non-punishable. As a matter of fact, as an inmate you only get punished for the crimes you commit when trying to escape, like property damage, assault and battery, resisting law enforcement, theft, fraud, etc.
If you want more info, I recommend the TED talk of Jeff Rosen about German prisons.
If you treat people like animals, you will get beasts.
There is no death penalty in Germany anymore. It was abolished in the 50ies (West Germany) and 80ies (East Germany; but there weren't that many executions).
I'm not sure, but I think it is one of the requirements to join the EU to have the death penalty abolished.
Oh and there is a shortage on certain drugs to execute someone in the US, because the EU stopped the export as they were exclusively used for executions .
This was really an interesting reaction video on a unique topic. Thanks for posting.
It's not about turning a prison into a circumfenced rehab. This goes way deeper into the basic assumptions about human nature: the good ones (us) vs. the evil ones. If you assume the villains can turn into good people you have to accept that we can turn bad as well.
Germany differs not only in the penal system from the USA, but also in the judicial system. Judges and public prosecutors in Germany are not elected by the people, but appointed by parliamentary committees. The appointment is for life. Therefore, e.g. the number of convictions or the severity of the judgments etc. has no influence on the career. The same applies to the police. We don't have sheriffs running for office.
As you can't be 100%sure,there aren't innocent people,human dignity is all the more important.
I find it great that you try to compare the way prisoners being treated in diferent countrys! I think it's great (and unusual) that an American seriously wonders whether other countries might have solved some social issues better than the USA does...
The USA is the only country in the "western world" where the death penalty is still imposed and carried out. Overall, I would describe the US penal system as a "revenge system", i.e. the state takes revenge on the perpetrator on behalf of the injured party. At the same time, there are other requirements in the USA: Since every adult there can buy as many firearms as they want (even criminals with previous convictions can easily obtain automatic weapons and military weapons at gun fairs and weapon exchanges), there are much more crimes in which firearms are used , which automatically means a higher penalty. That would also be e.g. B. in Germany the case. But in Germany, crimes involving the use of firearms play only a minor role... At the same time, the completely different approach of the prison system in Germany, the "promotion and correction" approach shows a far higher success rate than the "revenge and punishment" approach ", as he is persecuted in the USA. This is demonstrated by recidivism rates in the United States and the fact that no other Western country has anywhere near as many people in prison for every 1,000 people. A single look at crime statistics in the US also shows that the "deterrent effect" of the death penalty, always cited by its advocates, does not exist. In all of Germany there were 211 murders in 2022. In contrast, 280 people were murdered in New Orleans alone in the same year...
The data showing the results of a prison system should be
- reoffending rate
- percentage of prison inmates of the total population
- amount of crimes committed in prisons
- (perhaps a bit less) integration of the prisons in their communities
2:49 „Why is there a happy sun in German prison?“ Presumable to make in people smile (even if you feel like smiling, but move the mussels to smile, you brain thinks it is a little bit happier then without smiling)
Also, you ALREADY TOOK from the prisoners one of most value thing (also valued by USA, I guess) FREEDOM. THAT is the punishment. But there is no need to torture.
They lost all social contacts, (direct and smartphone) , they can not do what they want over each day.
(I already hear people: I cannot do what I want over the day, I have to work.. well YOU can TRY CHANGE your life and do something else, they cannot)
The more videos I watch, the more I retrust in the US people. Shows me that there are not only people of these "America first" guys. People like you look at the right and at the left and see, that there is more. Keep on the good work and visit us. You are welcome. - Gereetings - A German.
The first article of the German constitution: Human dignity shall be inviolable. To respect and protect it shall be the duty of all state authority.
Freedom and pursuit of happiness are important but not, if the human dignity is violated. So, free speech is forbidden if it can lead to an atmosphere where a part of the population gets discriminated.
On the question of the death penalty at 9:59 : Article 102 of the German constitution reads: "The death penalty is abolished."
Fun fact: Some years ago there was a long discussion in Germany about the "final rescue shot". - "May a police officer shoot someone to death who threatens the lives of innocent people?" The question may sound absurd to some US police officers, but perhaps the person concerned could have been arrested alive. Then a death penalty (without a court decision) would not have been necessary.
The death penalty was abolished in Germany after WW II
In the USA people often judge with emotions, here it is strongly separated. It's more about rehabilitation and what's best for the country and it's people. None can decide where human dignity should stop, it's also more relaxed for both sides to work together in prison.
Prison here aren't perfect, but they're ok and actually do a good job.
Our (The German) constitution was created after WWII ….so it is relatively new. The US constitution is over 250 years old…times change. And human dignity has a complete other standing now as it was 250 years ago.
The us right to own a gun is based on that 250 year old constitution … so it might be that some of the problems with crime and criminals have their roots in a overaging constitution, and the people who are stuck in the swamp of their strange mind carousel that gun ownership is something that means freedom.
if u want to rehabilitate people u need to show them that there is another way to live and not treat them bad
We don‘t have the death penalty in Germany. Belarus is the only country in Europe still imposing it.
The last western european country carrying out the death penalty was France; they got rid of it in 1981 (since 2007 its even written in their constitution), the last execution was in 1977 (by Guillotine).
When JP says that a start, maybe the person could of been like "well that is the video for American prisons done"
4:52 Be careful what you wish for. Also, there are better places to enjoy yourself lol
In order to fully understand where BDR (West Germany) and from 1990 also the eastern part of Germany have moved, I recommend this documentation. th-cam.com/video/wtV5ev6813I/w-d-xo.html
shows the perspective of an American whose parents survived a german concentration camp. It is a TEDx contribution.
A big point of American prisons seems to be Amendment 13... you know, that involuntary servitude... well the earmark is: "except as a punishment for crime".
And, of course, there is no death penalty in Germany. Some German federal states used to have it in their local constitution, but the Grundgesetz prohibits it.
Fun fact it was a right wing party bringing it to the table when discussing the new Grundgesetz in 1948. Their intent was to stop executing Nazi criminals (Nuremberg Trials).
The social democratic party (SPD) was against it in the first place, but changed their minds soon.
Half of the members of the now big conservative party (CDU) voted for keeping death penalty.
@MoreJps Since you asked for videos that explain the differences in more detail. I saw the following videos some time ago and they made me think. It is about the comparison of Norwegian prisons with those of the USA. But since the Norwegian system is, in my view, just a further development of the German system, it makes the difference in understanding (revenge versus releasing a better person who hopefully won't go back to prison) even clearer.
"Q158: Attica Prison USA v Halden Prison, Norway? - CR: Finnish Broadcasting Company YLE"
"How Norway's Prisons Are Different From America's | NowThis"
And if a longer video is also okay: This is the first video when the American prison warden travelled to Norway for the first time and was still very skeptical about the methods there.
"The Norden - Nordic Prisons"