rewording the idea: if you get killed three times around the spawn area, your inkling/octoling superjumps to a random point slightly away from the spawn this could be blocked if people have some in that area already, but that could be blocked by the game by the squids/octos teleporting to just a random area (which doesnt include the spawn of the other team) instead when that occurs.
I honestly just think the biggest issue that contributes to all this anger, is just how poor the matchmaking is, you get steamrolled because of how unfair the match is set up. I was getting my girlfriend into splatoon and was immediately queued with like 3 players around level 15 and 4 players around level 150 and it didn’t seem fun for anyone
Yea I agree since some times when I play turf I get matched up with players who aren’t my lvl and it wouldn’t be very fair for the other players so I agree that should be a flip a coin or something to make so the teams are even and matched fairly.
Something I forgot to mention, turf war has a ranking system via the flags (it doesn't actually have a rank attached to it), where many players max out 99.9, (you even gain/lose points differently as your flag changes) So Turf War is not a 100% casual only mode, this is a problem I forgot to mention which is there is no casual only ranked/turf war/leauge setting. PBs are your only option.
I don't know what happened to your comment, but I'm not letting this effort go to waste by just deleting this. A. If a small minority of players having a distinct personal play style is enough to qualify something as objective fact, then Moray and Walleye are good maps, because a small group of weapons like those maps and flourish in them B. Just because a small group of players behaves a certain way, that doesn't mean all of the other design decisions that help make a Turf War the casual mode dissappear. The difference in how EXP and Gear points are given in TW vs. Ranked alone is enough to show the intention
@@Druid-T idk either, but my only point is people will tryhard in turf because there is incentive for winning, so you can't blame people for trying whether its gear or a flag, they get to enjoy the game too. I really have nothing else to say besides that.
@@ProChara But if you're guaranteed to get the, one-time may I remind you, bonus because the enemy team has an inexperienced player or a DC, why would you intentionally do something that, by your own admission, is not fun for either side? Also, "they get to enjoy the game too" is a direct contradiction to 4:30
@@Druid-T enjoy the game too isn't referring to spawncamping its referring to trying to win. There is a difference. Again, the whole point of the video, is that it's not the players fault the game forces spawncamping at many times, or that they would have to otherwise throw (which is more disrespectful)
"Just design better maps lol" Ok but actually I feel this. Do you have any idea how many Turf Wars I've played on Shellendorf where the other team is just... incapable? So I have nowhere to go but spawn and the enemies don't have anywhere to go but spawn. I feel bad for it, really, but it's ultimately Nintendo's fault for their poor map design.
In my opinion it should be the other way around. If you are in a really good team in turf and you've turfed all you can except the opponents spawn, go ahead.Just don't go for it straight away. Ranked mode if you are spawncamping the entire time and not doing anything but or overdoing it (which a lot of people do) please just..don't. If it's let's say clamz and your team has the super clam and you are just helping the team out,yeah go ahead.just don't do it any more than you need to. Salmon run seems to completely rely on it, so what are you gonna do?
You just made realise all these years later why I love flound heights so much. There is simply so many ways to approach mid on that stage. It is the best!
Completely agree with the point about splat 3’s spawning. I remember when people first saw the jump-in spawning system and thought nintendo finally “killed spawncamping.” Like… no, jumping into the stage doesn’t matter if the entrance to mid is completely cramped and can easily be accessed by the enemy team. (Not to mention it’s currently unclear if there’s an area that grants invincibility, like how we have now)
Yeah I'm worried that it's possible to just look up in the air and see where people are gonna shoot at and land to calculate their position and have everyone splat them from there like a bunch of sharks
In the trailer we saw the bow actually spawn up on a ledge, so hopefully spawns will all have an alternative option that gives and advantage against spawn campers.
Yes!! All splatoon 3 stages need a 'Spawn jump only route' that can help with retake or take you into mid. Museum is a great example of this. The right route brings you straight into mid and the left route gives high ground to attack from.
“Mental game matters” is something that more people should know; I think this video is super helpful. Great work! I really do hope to see Flounder Heights return! Hopefully new features are implemented to help with the current matchmaking system but it also seems like the solo specials are going to change the play style a lot too.
I never understood why I was matched up with day 1 players when I was level 99+ (in turf war). I agree, it’s just not fun for either side. And I think Nintendo had an answer for it the whole time when they brought out the “pro” mode for turf war in Splatfest. It wasn’t great, but I think players were matched with similar levels at least. Looking back, I guess that was a sign that Nintendo favours quick games over fair ones.
it'd be great if we could have both, then. a casual turf mode that does "quick play" and a not so casual one that takes its time match making better but it's nintendo so who knows sngsng
Pro mode is better than regular turf but not by much. I normally average around 2300 power in splatfests and I would still occasionally get paired up with very low level players in addition to frequently being placed onto teams where my team's power level is in the 1700-1900 area meaning the matchmaking is constantly putting me on teams with people who are hundreds of points below me
Sometimes the problem comes from the players who get spawncamped. They don't adapt, keep rushing at the same player who has more range, don't charge their specials and go solo instead of waiting for their team to respawn. And the problem might not be spawncamping but the level difference between players because if they wait for you to get out of spawn, you'll still get killed as soon as you meet the other team.
Gonna put what I already know before watching: Spawncamping sucks if there's no way to get around them. If Splatoon 3 gives us more places to spawn at, and more paths to take, it should at least make it more bearable.
Yeah... Spawn-camping is an annoying part of the game and I agree that saying, "Oh just get good" absolutely doesn't help. I know of some ways of avoiding this. Not much, but I few. I'll list them in this comment down below (FYI, I'm someone who plays the game for fun and somehow is in almost every X rank mode.) Just to get it out of the way, some are already mentioned in Chara's video but I wanted to help a bit. 1 - Specials. This is possible the best way getting out of a spawn-camping situation. Doesn't matter what it is: Ink storm, Baller, Ink jet, anything. Even splash down... sort of... Use it. Fill your special with in your spawn shield. But the best is Bomb rush. (Just so it's clear, any of the bomb specials will work; burst bombs, erm... not so much) How to use bomb rush at it's best; Using a bomb rush forces the enemy to get out. Move with the bombs - don't just stand still and use the special or completely rush in. Another thing that is REALLY important, you can use your main weapon while using this special; use the special along with your main, trust me. Basically, use bomb rush to force your enemy out of your spawn. Throw the bombs at the enemy, not completely at the ground. 2 - Bombs. Again, doesn't matter which sub; unless it's beacon and mine. Using your sub is a safe way to try and kill the enemy without getting hurt. If the enemy is hiding behind a wall, or is out of your reach, use the sub. Still... First option is better. So stick with it. Just giving what I can think of 3 - Jumping to a teammate. If it's ranked, your main objective is IS the objective (E.x. Get zone, basket whatever). If your can jump to your teammates with a power clam, strike back for revenge. Else wise, stay and use the special or bomb method - don't jump if your basket is not back up. 4 - Wait for your team to respawn. DO NOT and I mean DO NOT go in alone. If you do, you'll most likely feed to the enemy team. While you're alone, use section 1 to fill your special or 2. Hope this helped. Sorry if this is not clear. I got tired while writing this :/
it's good to point out the matchmaking system, especially there's a chance for you to face against a 100+ lv player in ranked when your team is only less than 50, which is pure bs and not fun to play with
Honestly I really like the idea of maps having inaccessible spawn areas, like with flounder heights you can clearly still cover a good amount of space when you have a wipe but it also doesn’t completely shut down an enemy team’s defensive push. I’d be down for more maps like that.
Spawn camping is a legitimate strategy, but it isn't an enjoyable one. Being stuck in spawn for the entire game because the enemy team steamrolled right up to you SUCKS. Doing nothing but painting the same patch of ground right in front of enemy spawn and splatting people over and over and over is BORING. This is coming from the perspective of someone who plays almost exclusively Turf War. 3 minutes of doing pretty much nothing is so boring and unfun. Spawn campers say to "just let people have fun", but what about the people *being* spawn camped? Are *they* not allowed to have fun?
Yea, I mean my point there is more the game is the reason a lot of people do it, you can't really blame people for using an intended and many times forced game mechanic. Some people prolly have no idea it's hated anyway.
True, true. And spawn camping in ranked vs spawn camping in turf is really different. I don't have an issue with the strategy of spawn camping, particularly if it's in ranked and is used to push objective. I take issue with the people who spawncamp just to make others in the lobby have a less enjoyable time. I've been in lobbies where one or two people would rush the other team's base immediately and start spawncamping within 30 seconds of the match starting. And this was in turf war, so there wasn't a KO condition. If you were on the spawncamper's team, it was an automatic win button. if you weren't on their team, welp guess you just have to sit there not being able to set foot outside your spawn pad for three minutes straight. This was on Walleye Warehouse too, and the spawncampers positioned themselves in a way that the enemy team HAD to leave the spawn pad in order to build/use special, so the enemy team was legitimately stuck. Spawncamping isn't inherently bad, but when it's exploited to the degree that playing feels like a waste of time, that's where the issue lies.
@@LamplightProductions i mean if they force you into spawn then you cant ink turf and if their other teamates get picks then your whole team is stuck while they turf. it helps them win just like in ranked, its not to intentionally annoy you. some people just like getting kills or being hyper aggressive in turf bc they are warming up.
@@LamplightProductions "one or two people would rush the other team's base immediately" Personally I refer to this as "spawn rushing" rather than spawncamping; spawn *camping* is just the general situation, spawn *rushing* is a specific way to *enter* that situation. And I feel like spawn rush is the splatoon equivalent of hitting below the belt in a fight; is it an effective strategy and likely to win? Absolutely, but it marks the person *using* such a tactic as the worst kind of player.
In turf wars I always back off when the opportunity to spawn camp arises. My hope is that the other team will be able to break back in beyond they’re spawn if I allow them a numbers advantage. I do this because I want to ink more turf and farm chunks faster, and that’s easier to do when my opponents are laying down ink. I also don’t spawn camp in turf because I don’t want turn players (especially new ones) away from the game. Splatoon’s entertainment value is directly linked to the number of people playing; less wait time, less likely to be matched with people on other continents.
This is definitely the best take on spawncamping as a whole I've seen. Ranked often times personally it's not that bad because you pretty much have to in order to get a win, let alone a knockout. In turf it's near always going to be a problem because thats how the mode just works like you said, no one is gonna stick around in an already painted mid when theres more turf to get in the enemy spawn without getting fairly bored lol. (personally in turf i tend not to do it regardless of the other teams skill level to keep it fair but thats mainly me)
This is definitely the best take on spawn camping I've ever seen. I actually have something to add as someone who plays turf war with friends every once in a while...there should not be maps where the enemy has DIRECT ACCESS to your spawn point within like 20-30 seconds. (In Turf at least) Big example: Kelp Dome. It's not fun when you literally have to sit in one spot the entire game to prevent your spawn from being camped. Also in Kelp Dome there's way too many blind spots to hide in so it's incredibly difficult to weed out the campers, and there's nowhere to go if you are stuck. ESPECIALLY if you get in a bad matchmaking situation. In my opinion, if a casual mode becomes tilting and not fun for anyone playing, especially baby and casual players, that's a fatal flaw. I've seen tons of people quit playing because Turf has become so infuriating and they don't have time to maintain a high rank. Both map design and garbage matchmaking are very much to blame for this happening...I hope they do better in Splat 3. Edit: I thought of something else that's quite bothersome, there's a lot of people who specifically go into turf to spawncamp and, for lack of better words, terrorize/bully new or low level players. Which is...really weird but I encounter these people quite often and I'm the one one that has to weed them out, it's just exhausting and annoying after a bit but I don't think there's anything you can do about those type of people.
if the optimal strategy /natural thing to happen in the game is something cancer/ toxic/ unfun or simply something you dont like, blame the devs not the players, ofc players will do the best strat to win the game, thats the objective of a game, to win, and as players we will just do what we think will achieve that goal, if that heppens to be a scummy and unfun strat its not the players fault, but simply a mistake in design
walleye for example is terribly designed, you are able to get all the way to the other teams spawn, they have a tiny hallway to move on which you can just shark underneath and kill, and theres just generally no space to morve, farm specials or anything, making it super easy to get locked, while in the reef for example, at least in most modes, ppl cant get all the way to your spawn area, you have multiple drops and places to go
Turf war matchmaking also allows things like 3 hero chargers and one custom hydra splatling against all shooters which is always going to end in a spawncamp
I just started Splatoon 2 recently (1 week ago) and I remember my first match was with people who were level 50+. I still had fun though because it's my first multiplayer experience in Splatoon, but I was so confused at how the matching system even works. Because in my experiences, online games matches you with others with similar ranking/levels.
I don't think spawncamping needs any fixing, at least in ranked modes. Splatoon's turf and superjump mechanics are such that if the enemy spawncamps you, it's either completely inconsequential because you just jump away into a 4v3 and have free special charge on your doorstep 30 seconds later as that baserushing Sploosh gets bored, or you have already lost regardless and spawncamping lasts all of 15 seconds while the objective ticks down. Turf is the only problematic mode, but we get cannon jumps now so it's all fine.
My problem with spawn-camping is when people spawn camp just for the sake of spawn camping and not as a strategy to help push objective. I recently saw a Clam Blitz game on TH-cam someone was in where one team had a comp specifically with the goal of spawncamping and trapping the other team, and that team got full control of the map and had the other team completely spawncamped. You'd think this was so the spawncamping team could get clams and score and win much more easily, right? NOPE. The entire game, the spawncamping team made no attempt whatsoever to score even a single clam or even attempt to form a power clam, their sole goal was making sure the other team couldn't make it out of spawn for any meaningful length of time, that's it. All 4 players of that team were spawncamping, no one was actually taking the opportunity to push objective. So the spawncamped team couldn't score because they couldn't get out, and the spawn-camping team was making no attempt whatsoever to score, so basically all the spawncamping team was trying to do was force the other team to wait through the ENTIRETY of Clam Blitz Overtime and that's it, the match was stuck 100-100 the entire time and all the camping team was doing was forcefully wasting the other team's time. THAT's just plain toxic. If you're spawncamping in order to score that's a legitimate strategy, and in a map like Wall-eye what else are you going to do (This match was NOT on Wall-eye btw), but if you're spawncamping solely for the sake of spawncamping and making the other team sit through overtime that's super toxic. The spawncamping team didn't even win, the game ended with a tie and Judd granted the win to the spawncamped team. The spawncamping team didn't care about winning at all, they were just wasting time.
Funnily enough, I don't recall a single time I have ever been spawncamped and I'm usually on the spawncampers side, which makes sense cuz I'm carbon main
I think the best solution for this would be having a random spawn point instead. Make each map have 4 or 5 spawn points and the players spawn on a diferent one each time, or instead of Super jumping they could also choose what spawn point they want using the map
If I'm at the point where the match is obviously really lopsided and we're at the enemy's spawn, I'll sometimes try to get enemies to squid party. Most people would rather goof off for the last minute than get killed over and over again. Just as long as they don't start playing again and break the treaty.
Great video and excellent arguments regarding both sides of the discussion. Hopefully now everyone will realize that the true enemy is not either side, but the matchmaking. It has always been the main issue.
I agree with the match making its horrible I always get people really above or below my level and I've gotten plus 1 or 0 so many times also I even once got negative points no meme. (It's the most recent video on my channel I think it was a glitch but my point still stands )
The mentality of dealing with spawn camping can go along with anything that’s taken competitively in my opinion. As much as you may hate going against it, the strategy can be optimal when the situation demands it. This personally reminds me of how I felt about toxic stalling in Pokemon 🙃.
I think the super jump spawn and hopefully better map design will negate most of this problem. The only thing left is the shark problem, and most of the time this can be negated by paying attention to the map after dying. I’m glad Splatoon 3 is hopefully upgrading and fixing so many mechanics.
I always had an imagination that during the situation of spawn camping in Splatoon the team that's getting spawn camped gets a counter attack and vice versa. All things considered. IF Splat3n gets rid of it (Most likely not lol) Maybe everyone in the community or Chara can test it on a turf war maybe? Y'know just out of curiosity if they perhaps got rid of it. But either way... Meh 😑 We just know that we can always find some type of way to deal with tough situations like that. 😄 Btw : Hello Chara! 👋 ^.^
Yeah it's definitely more a thing in turf, I remember getting pretty bummed about getting spawn camped specifically on Walleye in Splatoon1. Nowadays I hardly notice it because if you get spawn camped in a ranked mode the game usually ends after you feed in like two times
i got banned from Caitlin koi's pbs for "spawn camping" in an ancho v game because i was camping their route to get to mid on that perch area and i was flanking too getting alot of mileage.it was bafflingly funny how everyone just called the area of the drop spawn with the sponge and wrote me off as spawncamping.ofc they were casuals
being a level 99* and X rank in all modes player, I absolutely hate getting into a ranked match where I'm up against 3 top 500 player, getting rolled and losing 30 points each time. And when I do win, it infuriates me that i only get 3-10 points. So after this cycle happens for a while I like to chill and play turf war, but then I get matched up with a LEVEL 7 PLAYER! It just confuses me so much how there is no system that matches you with people who are within 50 levels of you. Moral of the story, fix matchmaking.
Facts the ranked system is so infuriating like you barely get any for Winning and two losses you basically lose 60 points and have to play for a hour straight with no losses in order to gain 2 losses back
Honestly, I agree… It’s Splatoon after all and the point of most of these ranked modes anyway is to push the objective into enemy territory 😭 The epitome of the game is something you shouldn’t complain about and you should instead understand and overcome
what i would make is a simple comback mecanic (aka getting splatted multiple times in a row without getting a kill) this starts at 3 deaths and any death after that grants you more and more special charge
Tbh Splatoon 3's respawn system has one extra bonus that isn't normally brought up with the argument of countering spawn camping The anonymity of the launch: while you as the pusher get an advantage even in close quarters, the fact that the respawnee can decide where to respond and it is unknown is a huge boon. A person can only keep track of so many locations at a time due to camera perspective, reaction time, and maintaining control. However there is something that can easily counteract that. What will happen upon landing? If a foe has taken a large area of turf then when respawning you will more than likely land on enemy ink thus be slowed, lose a massive amount of health; and have less area to move while the foe has all the area to maneuver, so unless this addressed it may be even worse than even how you describe. My hope for how Nintendo makes respawning better: They should make it when landing an area of ink similar to a mini splash down will fly out dealing damage to a spawn camper (maybe 50 hp at the center), there should be no indicator to where you will land and they should make it where the old respawn point is still accessible and will still have a barrier. This way the person responding gains an advantage over the spawn camper but the person spawn camping still has some advantages themselves.
Splatoon is a team sport... when the opponents are really coordinated, it’s hard to deal with. Like when you watch really good players get targeted by a bunch of different people, their aim suddenly gets shaky and it’s hard to defend themselves Turf War is a big no no IMO, like it’s surprisingly tough breaking out of spawn when the whole team is waiting for you to drop down. And you’ll HAVE to drop down if you don’t have range! But yeah, in ranked this makes sense. I’ve dabbled in ranked lately (just reached S in Tower Control at level 66 lmao) and honestly the team won’t and can’t really spawncamp since they need to be near tower/zones/rainmaker. And ranked has better matchmaking so getting spawncamped by players at a similar skill level isn’t as likely
I don't think this was mentioned but the times when people completely ignore objective only to spawn camp. Spawn camping makes sense when its to win a game and push objective but its awful when a better team decides to not finish a game just cuz they wanna be assholes
Spawncamping is only acceptable in rainmaker and tower control. You should never, and I mean never, spawncamp in turf war, or splat zones. To counter the “where else are they gonna go” argument, it’s easy, just defended the middle of the map so it’s actually a fair match. If your team has inked their base, and the middle, then you can either defend the middle of the stage to be fair, or spawncamp.
I understand the arguments here but I feel like a distinction needs to be made, which is why I actually use the term "spawn rush" instead to describe the *specific* play of ignoring the objective and boxing the enemy in, making them *unable* to contest anything. Spawncamping because the team just doesn't have anything else left they can do, or because it's optimal for continuing the objective that they're already focused on, isn't the same, and I've never actually had an issue with moments like that. I'm *mostly* certain I'm not the only one, either.
Well think of it as this: You are scared of the spider. You hate em with your gut. Until you actually keep your calm and wack the spider dead. You feel a slight relief. But you will always face spiders in your life. Is just adapting and learning how to deal with em. And then you take out the spiders home. Now replace spiders with spawn campers. And replace the spiders home with the enamy base.
As a charger main, my opinion is that on some specific maps and modes (notably maps where enemies can be in your spawn ( like tricolor middle spawns)) you just can kill the slayers even with armor because it takes 1+ second to charge
The best thing to do when someone is spawn camping you, try to sneak out so that less people will focus on you, and your team can just jump from the spawn box or “Inkspresso machine”. If someone DOES pick a fight, try to win it. If EVERYONE goes after you for some reason your team gets an opening. Use ninja squid and your best slayer weapon in turf war, and escape from the spawn campers.
I think it would be funny if there was a way to launch yourself directly at a player it would kill them in so you could actually punish them for spawn camping
I am strongly disagree with giving turf wars a knockout. You could be getting absolutely steam roller then win in the absolutely last second. And besides, the fact that it doesn't have a knockout is what makes turf war distinct from the other modes. The game is "whoever paints moe wins, not whoever pushes the enemy team into the spawn the fastest wins" Because you can get pushed all the way to your spawn then make a comeback and this isn't unlikely or anything it's a main aspect of the mode, who wins is mostly up to the air until the very last moment.
My opinion on spawn camping: Idc if you spawn camp me, just try let me have fun still, thats what I do if I spawn camp, I make sure theres some easy way for them to escape. edit: also the tilted thing is possibly the most important thing in general in games like this. you could be a top level player, but if you cant think properly because you're stressed about for example losing a game, and it would make you play alot worse. 1 of my friends is getting the game soon, and thats my biggest worry, because they get mad at this kind of stuff alot.
i'm honestly concerned about the new spawn mechanic, unless all maps are built in a way where the teams have their own platform the other team can't get to, then you'd just be forced to feed the entire time [unless one or more of you get a lucky break away and manage to not get spotted by the enemy team when jumping into the map]. the way the new spawn mechanic looks, there's no opportunity to build special from the safety of your spawn platform, even chargers are spawned in hanging and likely unable to use their weapon. i guess ofc we'll just have to see, but i don't think getting rid of spawn will get rid of spawn camping sngsng
That would be too dumb even for nintendos stand point also it isnt necessary to have a platfrom if the map is large its just like not a big priority if theres more open maps
@@zetelofabread Which portion would be too dumb sngsng I mean yeah, personally I just see a problem with tracking where players are jumping to since you can just see them jump through the air, and then just ganging up on them one by one. Especially if the team respawning doesn't have map control. You just jump into enemy ink and territory. Idk if people are gonn wait at spawn to jump in w several players, and it's not like you can just jump to the other side of the map as it is, it's gonna have limits. I guess with it being less obvious where players are coming from, it'll be better, but Idk. I'm just thinking especially about weapons that require charging, like Hydra or Charger, who are insanely vulnerable when jumping. I don't think Nintendo will make every single stage large and open, they'll want variety and you just can't guarantee all maps will have safe spots to jump to all the time. And any maps that do have good areas, you can just camp those spots.
As a... well, C- player who's had the game since launch, has all hero weapons and beaten Octo, level 39, pretty casual (I am NOT a good fighter due to stress and many other reasons, and the pressure of a rank makes me more stressed) (my splat zones bar already has 2 cracks), I felt this. I was in a 4v2 a couple days ago. Started ok, about a minute in one of our players poofed, so I just sort of accepted we lost, then another player disconnected, maybe in rage- I don't know, I was out of spawn by then and I guess my opponents weren't checking map much because I got a decent amount of mid before dying... we were on Inkblot. So the game was trying to find a side pathway to sneak out of spawn and paint whatever I could, activating Ink Armor to give my ally an easier time in fights. We lost with 35% our side - 50% theirs. (I think I was Splat Jr and my only ally was N-Zap 83? One of the N-Zaps). There's wide stages like Musselforge (I'm okay at that one), and smaller ones, like Walleye Warehouse in the video. And that's not getting into certain well known and widely disliked stages. If you're on Moray Towers, you have that tiny platform to yourself. Anywhere else and you're probably getting spawnkilled because the map's pretty linear. You have the side ramps and jumping straight down, and either way you have to get through the middle platform enough and you're most definitely getting spotted and possibly killed if you can't flee (which, considering in Turf War, they probably have that part....) I play against so many players with prestige it's not even funny. Yes I've gotten Superfresh on a few shooters and up to Raw or Fresh on a few more (including slosher), but it took painful ages because, well, I'm not good at the game and I don't know how to adapt well to rotation! Also I don't trust myself to hit the broad side of a barn with a charger, so there's that. Some fundamentals taught by singleplayer help, but let's be real, your opponent will most likely be smarter than the enemy AI. It's painful to get spawncamped, and I get it, but if I'm malding I'm not going to actually be useful.
It's so hard not to get tilted by stuff like that though...especially if there's any indication that they're doing it for fun/to annoy. Even more so if you're casually trying to play. For a casual, playing the game is their leisure time most likely. Running into a pro, or a troll, completely ruins the mood of why they started playing. Now it's not leisure, it's stressful. Not to say you're wrong in any way, just trying to justify the mindset of the complainers :P I can't believe the matchmaking is THAT bad....I mean even in Smash it TRIES to put similar GSP together... I hope that gets fixed in Splat 3
Yep, absolutely agree. I play a lot of Turf War (I'm decent at the game but prefer the more casual energy) and sometimes I've ended up spawncamping when from my perspective we just played well and had them pushed back. To be clear, my team has also gotten punished for overextending into enemy territory and we've been pushed back, and sometimes *I've* been spawncamped. In that scenario it's more the fault of the map design allowing for this scenario to happen. Frustrating but true.
Saw that you mentioned that squidbagging is a legitimate strategy. This makes me want a full video on how to correctly use Squidbagging, since I kinda just do it when I’m in a bad mood and feel good about myself for a kill.
thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. I always go to turf wars to practice playing charger but my team and I end up getting spawn camped all the time and most people say to just keep trying but this is the type of answer that I wanted. Thank you chara. :)
My solution to spawn camping is better maps (not like Warehouse or Port Mackerel), more aggressive specials, and getting rid of damage up abilities completely.
I appreciate the tips you put in here! It's way more helpful than "Just get good" or "Practice more LOL". Some people aren't built for competitive and it's really annoying when a respawn punisher person is purposefully hunting their opponents down from spawn to get the team tilted and have an easy win. Hopefully this won't be too much of a problem thanks to the new spawn mechanics in 3!!
i just started playing this game and the matchmaking is absolute hell, like not only do you get matched up with super high rated players, but those players will end up on the same team against a team of level 1-20 players. regardless though this game is so fun when its good so i still won't stop playing lol
holy cow. what a great video. damb. i already saw spawncamping as the fault of the devs rather than those who did it, but now i'm actively sympathetic to the people who do it, too. i will say that casuals misunderstanding the situation is just a little less bad than experienced high-level players being Actively Rude, but that's ultimately a minor nitpick, especially since people online - and especially on twitter - uh... really hate, like. Listening.
The only time I'll spawn camp is during Rainmaker or Tower Control, where it's naturally going to happen as part of the objective (I suck at the game, so I can't even camp that long anyway). I don't like being spawn camped, I don't like being unable to actually play the game just because the other team feel like boxing us in to win rather than defending the objective. Sure it's a valid strategy but that doesn't mean it's a fair one. If I do start spawn camping then I'll do so from a distance, where I can hold off the enemy team but I'm not sitting right on top of their spawn where they can't even put a foot out before getting splatted. I'd much rather look at map activity and cut a player off that way.
This is what I've been saying for a while, have a ranked turf war, and a nonranked version of the ranked modes. People that actually like turf war as a concept but hate the people that aren't at their skill level in their lobbies, and give people that like the ranked modes but aren't good at being sweaty a better, less stressful, time playing. It would just make sense
For a knockout function in turf war ther could be a button combo like press pluss and minus and the same time to trigger a surrender vote for your team if everyone agrees the round ends
I like how as Chara is talking about the matchmaking system I look up at my TV and the highest level player that isn't me is a level 54.. I'm a 58 prestige 😭😭
Splatoon is designed in a way where counter play is hard. Specials suck and some specials aren't allways good like bubbles and sting ray forcing you to get out of spawn and then the enemys shooting you or the bubbles. Brellas are good but it's a waste of time. Need a close range weapon? Sploosh,splatter or tentatek. And brellas can be shot at to be broken and depending on the weapon your trapped inside and if there are no beacons or other plays out of spawn then your stuck in spawn. Sting ray can even spawn camp from across the map and effectively. Splatoon needs some fixing and that probably won't happen in 3 becuase nintendo is lazy and just reworks some weapons and won't bother to fix a weapon.
I don't think any main weapon super needs fixing, if anything main weapon balance was overall done well but I agree counterplay in 2 is a bit hard, a lot of hard > soft counters.
@@ProChara yea but I do think some need some fixes. I'm a casual and I thought exploshers were good but I had better experience with aerospray. Some weapons don't feel as rewarding as others (tenta brella, range, carbon). Some weapons are the opposite being too rewarding for less effort, missle spam is easy with some SCU can make make entire team split up or risk dying to missles, force close range encounters or making an enemy leave all by a click of a button. I also feel like splatoon should have some way of dealing with spawn camping effectively. Your idea of more routes is good for spawn campers. Maybe a detection system that helps the team that's spawn camped like more damage,resistance,insta special or a whole combo of it and can be on gear or for every one. No joke if you spawn camp for long enough teams the enemy will just lose becuase of how powerful it is. Hopefully splatoon is actually fixed for these features so games can be less stay in spawn and more of a fair match.
@@ProChara those weapons need alot of aim and yet the reward isn't great. So many weapons don't need aim but get the job done (blasters,slosher,sploosh,brushes and rollers) and the weapons that don't are outshines by so many other weapons. I'm kinda mad about paying 20$ a year for bs like hard unrewarding weapons or having to fight against easy weapons that nintendo won't do stuff about. Splatoon needs an overhaul in 3 from an actual balance system that isn't lvl 5s and lvl *99 in the same lobby and for spawncamping to be dealt with. I should try to make a vid on it when I get a mic.
Introduce a rage mechanic so when you get spawncamped you smash your main weapon on the floor in rage and superjump off the map
Just like smash bros! Rage + throwing controllers lol
You reminded me in Sonic CD if you don't move at all for too long Sonic becomes impatient and jumps off the map, resulting in an immediate Game Over.
@@五五-y3u what
rewording the idea: if you get killed three times around the spawn area, your inkling/octoling superjumps to a random point slightly away from the spawn
this could be blocked if people have some in that area already, but that could be blocked by the game by the squids/octos teleporting to just a random area (which doesnt include the spawn of the other team) instead when that occurs.
The superior disconnect animation.
I honestly just think the biggest issue that contributes to all this anger, is just how poor the matchmaking is, you get steamrolled because of how unfair the match is set up.
I was getting my girlfriend into splatoon and was immediately queued with like 3 players around level 15 and 4 players around level 150 and it didn’t seem fun for anyone
Ah, yes the only chargers team vs the all clashBlasters and trisloshers. GREAT MATCH MAKING
Level 150? There’s not even level 100.
Matchmaking has always been an issue on almost every online game, online team game is a coin flip
Yea I agree since some times when I play turf I get matched up with players who aren’t my lvl and it wouldn’t be very fair for the other players so I agree that should be a flip a coin or something to make so the teams are even and matched fairly.
@@EeveeTV_ It's technically around 51* but you get their point.
Something I forgot to mention, turf war has a ranking system via the flags (it doesn't actually have a rank attached to it), where many players max out 99.9, (you even gain/lose points differently as your flag changes) So Turf War is not a 100% casual only mode, this is a problem I forgot to mention which is there is no casual only ranked/turf war/leauge setting. PBs are your only option.
I don't know what happened to your comment, but I'm not letting this effort go to waste by just deleting this.
A. If a small minority of players having a distinct personal play style is enough to qualify something as objective fact, then Moray and Walleye are good maps, because a small group of weapons like those maps and flourish in them
B. Just because a small group of players behaves a certain way, that doesn't mean all of the other design decisions that help make a Turf War the casual mode dissappear. The difference in how EXP and Gear points are given in TW vs. Ranked alone is enough to show the intention
@@Druid-T idk either, but my only point is people will tryhard in turf because there is incentive for winning, so you can't blame people for trying whether its gear or a flag, they get to enjoy the game too. I really have nothing else to say besides that.
@@ProChara But if you're guaranteed to get the, one-time may I remind you, bonus because the enemy team has an inexperienced player or a DC, why would you intentionally do something that, by your own admission, is not fun for either side?
Also, "they get to enjoy the game too" is a direct contradiction to 4:30
@@Druid-T enjoy the game too isn't referring to spawncamping its referring to trying to win. There is a difference.
Again, the whole point of the video, is that it's not the players fault the game forces spawncamping at many times, or that they would have to otherwise throw (which is more disrespectful)
"Just design better maps lol"
Ok but actually I feel this. Do you have any idea how many Turf Wars I've played on Shellendorf where the other team is just... incapable? So I have nowhere to go but spawn and the enemies don't have anywhere to go but spawn. I feel bad for it, really, but it's ultimately Nintendo's fault for their poor map design.
so about those better maps...
@@videogamesarecool9280**coughs**
My personal rules for spawncamping:
Turf war: nah don't do that
Ranked/League: Gotta do what you gotta do to win
Salmon Run: wait what
New players who decide to break away from the group and wait at the ocean themselves to fight salmonids:
I 100% agree you got to do what you got to win. Winning not spawn spawn camping.
I'm gonna listen to those now
I generally agree for turf war... UNLESS i'm working on getting my gold flag. then, all's fair game for me lmao
In my opinion it should be the other way around. If you are in a really good team in turf and you've turfed all you can except the opponents spawn, go ahead.Just don't go for it straight away.
Ranked mode if you are spawncamping the entire time and not doing anything but or overdoing it (which a lot of people do) please just..don't. If it's let's say clamz and your team has the super clam and you are just helping the team out,yeah go ahead.just don't do it any more than you need to.
Salmon run seems to completely rely on it, so what are you gonna do?
You just made realise all these years later why I love flound heights so much. There is simply so many ways to approach mid on that stage. It is the best!
Flounder Heights is such an awesome and fun map it's so cool to go around all the buildings
Completely agree with the point about splat 3’s spawning. I remember when people first saw the jump-in spawning system and thought nintendo finally “killed spawncamping.” Like… no, jumping into the stage doesn’t matter if the entrance to mid is completely cramped and can easily be accessed by the enemy team. (Not to mention it’s currently unclear if there’s an area that grants invincibility, like how we have now)
Yeah I'm worried that it's possible to just look up in the air and see where people are gonna shoot at and land to calculate their position and have everyone splat them from there like a bunch of sharks
Indeed. The problem of spawn camping isn't spawn method, more like spawn choke points that were poorly built...
I'm hoping that the fact that they created a completely new spawn mechanic means that they thought this through....
In the trailer we saw the bow actually spawn up on a ledge, so hopefully spawns will all have an alternative option that gives and advantage against spawn campers.
Yes!! All splatoon 3 stages need a 'Spawn jump only route' that can help with retake or take you into mid. Museum is a great example of this. The right route brings you straight into mid and the left route gives high ground to attack from.
“Mental game matters” is something that more people should know; I think this video is super helpful. Great work! I really do hope to see Flounder Heights return! Hopefully new features are implemented to help with the current matchmaking system but it also seems like the solo specials are going to change the play style a lot too.
I never understood why I was matched up with day 1 players when I was level 99+ (in turf war). I agree, it’s just not fun for either side. And I think Nintendo had an answer for it the whole time when they brought out the “pro” mode for turf war in Splatfest. It wasn’t great, but I think players were matched with similar levels at least. Looking back, I guess that was a sign that Nintendo favours quick games over fair ones.
it'd be great if we could have both, then. a casual turf mode that does "quick play" and a not so casual one that takes its time match making better
but it's nintendo so who knows sngsng
Pro mode is better than regular turf but not by much. I normally average around 2300 power in splatfests and I would still occasionally get paired up with very low level players in addition to frequently being placed onto teams where my team's power level is in the 1700-1900 area meaning the matchmaking is constantly putting me on teams with people who are hundreds of points below me
Sometimes the problem comes from the players who get spawncamped. They don't adapt, keep rushing at the same player who has more range, don't charge their specials and go solo instead of waiting for their team to respawn.
And the problem might not be spawncamping but the level difference between players because if they wait for you to get out of spawn, you'll still get killed as soon as you meet the other team.
Gonna put what I already know before watching: Spawncamping sucks if there's no way to get around them. If Splatoon 3 gives us more places to spawn at, and more paths to take, it should at least make it more bearable.
Yeah... Spawn-camping is an annoying part of the game and I agree that saying, "Oh just get good" absolutely doesn't help. I know of some ways of avoiding this. Not much, but I few. I'll list them in this comment down below (FYI, I'm someone who plays the game for fun and somehow is in almost every X rank mode.)
Just to get it out of the way, some are already mentioned in Chara's video but I wanted to help a bit.
1 - Specials. This is possible the best way getting out of a spawn-camping situation. Doesn't matter what it is: Ink storm, Baller, Ink jet, anything. Even splash down... sort of... Use it. Fill your special with in your spawn shield. But the best is Bomb rush. (Just so it's clear, any of the bomb specials will work; burst bombs, erm... not so much)
How to use bomb rush at it's best;
Using a bomb rush forces the enemy to get out. Move with the bombs - don't just stand still and use the special or completely rush in. Another thing that is REALLY important, you can use your main weapon while using this special; use the special along with your main, trust me. Basically, use bomb rush to force your enemy out of your spawn. Throw the bombs at the enemy, not completely at the ground.
2 - Bombs. Again, doesn't matter which sub; unless it's beacon and mine. Using your sub is a safe way to try and kill the enemy without getting hurt. If the enemy is hiding behind a wall, or is out of your reach, use the sub. Still... First option is better. So stick with it. Just giving what I can think of
3 - Jumping to a teammate. If it's ranked, your main objective is IS the objective (E.x. Get zone, basket whatever). If your can jump to your teammates with a power clam, strike back for revenge. Else wise, stay and use the special or bomb method - don't jump if your basket is not back up.
4 - Wait for your team to respawn. DO NOT and I mean DO NOT go in alone. If you do, you'll most likely feed to the enemy team. While you're alone, use section 1 to fill your special or 2.
Hope this helped. Sorry if this is not clear. I got tired while writing this :/
it's good to point out the matchmaking system, especially there's a chance for you to face against a 100+ lv player in ranked when your team is only less than 50, which is pure bs and not fun to play with
True I’ve seen the absolute bullshit of matchmaking I have a lot of friends who are low level I’m near prestige 1
Honestly I really like the idea of maps having inaccessible spawn areas, like with flounder heights you can clearly still cover a good amount of space when you have a wipe but it also doesn’t completely shut down an enemy team’s defensive push. I’d be down for more maps like that.
Spawn camping is a legitimate strategy, but it isn't an enjoyable one. Being stuck in spawn for the entire game because the enemy team steamrolled right up to you SUCKS. Doing nothing but painting the same patch of ground right in front of enemy spawn and splatting people over and over and over is BORING. This is coming from the perspective of someone who plays almost exclusively Turf War. 3 minutes of doing pretty much nothing is so boring and unfun. Spawn campers say to "just let people have fun", but what about the people *being* spawn camped? Are *they* not allowed to have fun?
Yea, I mean my point there is more the game is the reason a lot of people do it, you can't really blame people for using an intended and many times forced game mechanic. Some people prolly have no idea it's hated anyway.
True, true. And spawn camping in ranked vs spawn camping in turf is really different. I don't have an issue with the strategy of spawn camping, particularly if it's in ranked and is used to push objective. I take issue with the people who spawncamp just to make others in the lobby have a less enjoyable time.
I've been in lobbies where one or two people would rush the other team's base immediately and start spawncamping within 30 seconds of the match starting. And this was in turf war, so there wasn't a KO condition. If you were on the spawncamper's team, it was an automatic win button. if you weren't on their team, welp guess you just have to sit there not being able to set foot outside your spawn pad for three minutes straight. This was on Walleye Warehouse too, and the spawncampers positioned themselves in a way that the enemy team HAD to leave the spawn pad in order to build/use special, so the enemy team was legitimately stuck.
Spawncamping isn't inherently bad, but when it's exploited to the degree that playing feels like a waste of time, that's where the issue lies.
@@LamplightProductions i mean if they force you into spawn then you cant ink turf and if their other teamates get picks then your whole team is stuck while they turf. it helps them win just like in ranked, its not to intentionally annoy you. some people just like getting kills or being hyper aggressive in turf bc they are warming up.
@@LamplightProductions "one or two people would rush the other team's base immediately"
Personally I refer to this as "spawn rushing" rather than spawncamping; spawn *camping* is just the general situation, spawn *rushing* is a specific way to *enter* that situation.
And I feel like spawn rush is the splatoon equivalent of hitting below the belt in a fight; is it an effective strategy and likely to win? Absolutely, but it marks the person *using* such a tactic as the worst kind of player.
In turf wars I always back off when the opportunity to spawn camp arises. My hope is that the other team will be able to break back in beyond they’re spawn if I allow them a numbers advantage. I do this because I want to ink more turf and farm chunks faster, and that’s easier to do when my opponents are laying down ink. I also don’t spawn camp in turf because I don’t want turn players (especially new ones) away from the game. Splatoon’s entertainment value is directly linked to the number of people playing; less wait time, less likely to be matched with people on other continents.
This is definitely the best take on spawncamping as a whole I've seen. Ranked often times personally it's not that bad because you pretty much have to in order to get a win, let alone a knockout. In turf it's near always going to be a problem because thats how the mode just works like you said, no one is gonna stick around in an already painted mid when theres more turf to get in the enemy spawn without getting fairly bored lol. (personally in turf i tend not to do it regardless of the other teams skill level to keep it fair but thats mainly me)
I think spawn camping is less of a people caused thing and more of a game design flaw. Idk why they had to make maps so small in this version 🤧
This is definitely the best take on spawn camping I've ever seen. I actually have something to add as someone who plays turf war with friends every once in a while...there should not be maps where the enemy has DIRECT ACCESS to your spawn point within like 20-30 seconds. (In Turf at least) Big example: Kelp Dome. It's not fun when you literally have to sit in one spot the entire game to prevent your spawn from being camped. Also in Kelp Dome there's way too many blind spots to hide in so it's incredibly difficult to weed out the campers, and there's nowhere to go if you are stuck. ESPECIALLY if you get in a bad matchmaking situation. In my opinion, if a casual mode becomes tilting and not fun for anyone playing, especially baby and casual players, that's a fatal flaw. I've seen tons of people quit playing because Turf has become so infuriating and they don't have time to maintain a high rank. Both map design and garbage matchmaking are very much to blame for this happening...I hope they do better in Splat 3. Edit: I thought of something else that's quite bothersome, there's a lot of people who specifically go into turf to spawncamp and, for lack of better words, terrorize/bully new or low level players. Which is...really weird but I encounter these people quite often and I'm the one one that has to weed them out, it's just exhausting and annoying after a bit but I don't think there's anything you can do about those type of people.
Ugh totally wanted my Chara tower control art, they ALWAYS close commissions for the best artists 🙄
We can all agree on one thing
It’s down right in humane to spawn camp ppl when there in a 3v4 situation at the start of the match
If the enemy can easily spawn camp isn’t that just bad map design?
if the optimal strategy /natural thing to happen in the game is something cancer/ toxic/ unfun or simply something you dont like, blame the devs not the players, ofc players will do the best strat to win the game, thats the objective of a game, to win, and as players we will just do what we think will achieve that goal, if that heppens to be a scummy and unfun strat its not the players fault, but simply a mistake in design
walleye for example is terribly designed, you are able to get all the way to the other teams spawn, they have a tiny hallway to move on which you can just shark underneath and kill, and theres just generally no space to morve, farm specials or anything, making it super easy to get locked,
while in the reef for example, at least in most modes, ppl cant get all the way to your spawn area, you have multiple drops and places to go
Turf war matchmaking also allows things like 3 hero chargers and one custom hydra splatling against all shooters which is always going to end in a spawncamp
4:16 turf war lobbies sometimes just SUCK, I had a level 1 player in my lobby, and EVERYONE else was like level 30-something. just, WHY.
I think they should add a stronger splashdown to the new spawning jump in to create space for you to fight when spawncampers ink your base
I just started Splatoon 2 recently (1 week ago) and I remember my first match was with people who were level 50+. I still had fun though because it's my first multiplayer experience in Splatoon, but I was so confused at how the matching system even works. Because in my experiences, online games matches you with others with similar ranking/levels.
I don't think spawncamping needs any fixing, at least in ranked modes. Splatoon's turf and superjump mechanics are such that if the enemy spawncamps you, it's either completely inconsequential because you just jump away into a 4v3 and have free special charge on your doorstep 30 seconds later as that baserushing Sploosh gets bored, or you have already lost regardless and spawncamping lasts all of 15 seconds while the objective ticks down. Turf is the only problematic mode, but we get cannon jumps now so it's all fine.
My problem with spawn-camping is when people spawn camp just for the sake of spawn camping and not as a strategy to help push objective. I recently saw a Clam Blitz game on TH-cam someone was in where one team had a comp specifically with the goal of spawncamping and trapping the other team, and that team got full control of the map and had the other team completely spawncamped. You'd think this was so the spawncamping team could get clams and score and win much more easily, right? NOPE. The entire game, the spawncamping team made no attempt whatsoever to score even a single clam or even attempt to form a power clam, their sole goal was making sure the other team couldn't make it out of spawn for any meaningful length of time, that's it. All 4 players of that team were spawncamping, no one was actually taking the opportunity to push objective. So the spawncamped team couldn't score because they couldn't get out, and the spawn-camping team was making no attempt whatsoever to score, so basically all the spawncamping team was trying to do was force the other team to wait through the ENTIRETY of Clam Blitz Overtime and that's it, the match was stuck 100-100 the entire time and all the camping team was doing was forcefully wasting the other team's time. THAT's just plain toxic. If you're spawncamping in order to score that's a legitimate strategy, and in a map like Wall-eye what else are you going to do (This match was NOT on Wall-eye btw), but if you're spawncamping solely for the sake of spawncamping and making the other team sit through overtime that's super toxic. The spawncamping team didn't even win, the game ended with a tie and Judd granted the win to the spawncamped team. The spawncamping team didn't care about winning at all, they were just wasting time.
I remember that video. One guy got like 52 splats that match.
God, it sucks.
I agree. Don’t spawncamp for the sake of spawncamping, that’s just mean.
Funnily enough, I don't recall a single time I have ever been spawncamped and I'm usually on the spawncampers side, which makes sense cuz I'm carbon main
I think the best solution for this would be having a random spawn point instead.
Make each map have 4 or 5 spawn points and the players spawn on a diferent one each time, or instead of Super jumping they could also choose what spawn point they want using the map
Damn, I was looking forward to that ProChara art commission
If I'm at the point where the match is obviously really lopsided and we're at the enemy's spawn, I'll sometimes try to get enemies to squid party. Most people would rather goof off for the last minute than get killed over and over again.
Just as long as they don't start playing again and break the treaty.
Great video and excellent arguments regarding both sides of the discussion. Hopefully now everyone will realize that the true enemy is not either side, but the matchmaking. It has always been the main issue.
"Just stop spawning" ragequit is optimal strategy
Lol that is true.
Thats why abortion is a thing. FOR SPLATOON
I agree with the match making its horrible I always get people really above or below my level and I've gotten plus 1 or 0 so many times also I even once got negative points no meme. (It's the most recent video on my channel I think it was a glitch but my point still stands )
The mentality of dealing with spawn camping can go along with anything that’s taken competitively in my opinion. As much as you may hate going against it, the strategy can be optimal when the situation demands it. This personally reminds me of how I felt about toxic stalling in Pokemon 🙃.
Splatoon 3 Hammerhead gives me Walleye flashbacks
I think the super jump spawn and hopefully better map design will negate most of this problem. The only thing left is the shark problem, and most of the time this can be negated by paying attention to the map after dying. I’m glad Splatoon 3 is hopefully upgrading and fixing so many mechanics.
yea sharking is really just on the player for not painting, other things I agree
I'd easily commission you for 400.00 USD bro you art is insane.
'contrary to popular belief splatoon is not easy' i wish i was told that a long time ago
I always had an imagination that during the situation of spawn camping in Splatoon the team that's getting spawn camped gets a counter attack and vice versa.
All things considered. IF Splat3n gets rid of it (Most likely not lol) Maybe everyone in the community or Chara can test it on a turf war maybe? Y'know just out of curiosity if they perhaps got rid of it. But either way... Meh 😑 We just know that we can always find some type of way to deal with tough situations like that. 😄
Btw : Hello Chara! 👋 ^.^
Yeah it's definitely more a thing in turf, I remember getting pretty bummed about getting spawn camped specifically on Walleye in Splatoon1. Nowadays I hardly notice it because if you get spawn camped in a ranked mode the game usually ends after you feed in like two times
“Stop spawn camping us”
“Stop spawning”
“Okay”
“W-what?”
*disconnects*
"Stop spawning." Lol it made die laughing.
i got banned from Caitlin koi's pbs for "spawn camping" in an ancho v game because i was camping their route to get to mid on that perch area and i was flanking too getting alot of mileage.it was bafflingly funny how everyone just called the area of the drop spawn with the sponge and wrote me off as spawncamping.ofc they were casuals
being a level 99* and X rank in all modes player, I absolutely hate getting into a ranked match where I'm up against 3 top 500 player, getting rolled and losing 30 points each time. And when I do win, it infuriates me that i only get 3-10 points. So after this cycle happens for a while I like to chill and play turf war, but then I get matched up with a LEVEL 7 PLAYER! It just confuses me so much how there is no system that matches you with people who are within 50 levels of you. Moral of the story, fix matchmaking.
Facts the ranked system is so infuriating like you barely get any for Winning and two losses you basically lose 60 points and have to play for a hour straight with no losses in order to gain 2 losses back
Honestly, I agree… It’s Splatoon after all and the point of most of these ranked modes anyway is to push the objective into enemy territory 😭 The epitome of the game is something you shouldn’t complain about and you should instead understand and overcome
The matchmaking was how I ended up quitting Splatoon 2 in the first place. I haven't touched my switch since.
I think Splatoon 3 respawn gives you invincibility for a second.
what i would make is a simple comback mecanic (aka getting splatted multiple times in a row without getting a kill) this starts at 3 deaths and any death after that grants you more and more special charge
What I have learned from this video:
I must learn how to perform advanced taunts to make my opponents angry so they suck at the game.
I’ll be taking notes while I can for splatoon 3 when it comes out
Tbh Splatoon 3's respawn system has one extra bonus that isn't normally brought up with the argument of countering spawn camping
The anonymity of the launch: while you as the pusher get an advantage even in close quarters, the fact that the respawnee can decide where to respond and it is unknown is a huge boon. A person can only keep track of so many locations at a time due to camera perspective, reaction time, and maintaining control.
However there is something that can easily counteract that. What will happen upon landing? If a foe has taken a large area of turf then when respawning you will more than likely land on enemy ink thus be slowed, lose a massive amount of health; and have less area to move while the foe has all the area to maneuver, so unless this addressed it may be even worse than even how you describe.
My hope for how Nintendo makes respawning better:
They should make it when landing an area of ink similar to a mini splash down will fly out dealing damage to a spawn camper (maybe 50 hp at the center), there should be no indicator to where you will land and they should make it where the old respawn point is still accessible and will still have a barrier. This way the person responding gains an advantage over the spawn camper but the person spawn camping still has some advantages themselves.
Splatoon is a team sport... when the opponents are really coordinated, it’s hard to deal with. Like when you watch really good players get targeted by a bunch of different people, their aim suddenly gets shaky and it’s hard to defend themselves
Turf War is a big no no IMO, like it’s surprisingly tough breaking out of spawn when the whole team is waiting for you to drop down. And you’ll HAVE to drop down if you don’t have range!
But yeah, in ranked this makes sense. I’ve dabbled in ranked lately (just reached S in Tower Control at level 66 lmao) and honestly the team won’t and can’t really spawncamp since they need to be near tower/zones/rainmaker. And ranked has better matchmaking so getting spawncamped by players at a similar skill level isn’t as likely
I don't think this was mentioned but the times when people completely ignore objective only to spawn camp. Spawn camping makes sense when its to win a game and push objective but its awful when a better team decides to not finish a game just cuz they wanna be assholes
briefly mentioned it but yea this is when I think it can be a bit of a problem. KOs are great because they end shit balance games.
Spawncamping is only acceptable in rainmaker and tower control. You should never, and I mean never, spawncamp in turf war, or splat zones. To counter the “where else are they gonna go” argument, it’s easy, just defended the middle of the map so it’s actually a fair match. If your team has inked their base, and the middle, then you can either defend the middle of the stage to be fair, or spawncamp.
I understand the arguments here but I feel like a distinction needs to be made, which is why I actually use the term "spawn rush" instead to describe the *specific* play of ignoring the objective and boxing the enemy in, making them *unable* to contest anything.
Spawncamping because the team just doesn't have anything else left they can do, or because it's optimal for continuing the objective that they're already focused on, isn't the same, and I've never actually had an issue with moments like that. I'm *mostly* certain I'm not the only one, either.
Well think of it as this:
You are scared of the spider.
You hate em with your gut.
Until you actually keep your calm and wack the spider dead. You feel a slight relief.
But you will always face spiders in your life. Is just adapting and learning how to deal with em. And then you take out the spiders home.
Now replace spiders with spawn campers. And replace the spiders home with the enamy base.
As a charger main, my opinion is that on some specific maps and modes (notably maps where enemies can be in your spawn ( like tricolor middle spawns)) you just can kill the slayers even with armor because it takes 1+ second to charge
The best thing to do when someone is spawn camping you, try to sneak out so that less people will focus on you, and your team can just jump from the spawn box or “Inkspresso machine”. If someone DOES pick a fight, try to win it. If EVERYONE goes after you for some reason your team gets an opening. Use ninja squid and your best slayer weapon in turf war, and escape from the spawn campers.
I think it would be funny if there was a way to launch yourself directly at a player it would kill them in so you could actually punish them for spawn camping
As soon as I read the title, I knew this would be a great vid
I am strongly disagree with giving turf wars a knockout. You could be getting absolutely steam roller then win in the absolutely last second. And besides, the fact that it doesn't have a knockout is what makes turf war distinct from the other modes. The game is "whoever paints moe wins, not whoever pushes the enemy team into the spawn the fastest wins" Because you can get pushed all the way to your spawn then make a comeback and this isn't unlikely or anything it's a main aspect of the mode, who wins is mostly up to the air until the very last moment.
All the other stuff, I agree with tho.
"Stop spawning" thats cruel chara...but true xd
My opinion on spawn camping: Idc if you spawn camp me, just try let me have fun still, thats what I do if I spawn camp, I make sure theres some easy way for them to escape.
edit: also the tilted thing is possibly the most important thing in general in games like this. you could be a top level player, but if you cant think properly because you're stressed about for example losing a game, and it would make you play alot worse. 1 of my friends is getting the game soon, and thats my biggest worry, because they get mad at this kind of stuff alot.
They need to add an always on line turf war ranked. And an unranked version for warm up
i'm honestly concerned about the new spawn mechanic, unless all maps are built in a way where the teams have their own platform the other team can't get to, then you'd just be forced to feed the entire time [unless one or more of you get a lucky break away and manage to not get spotted by the enemy team when jumping into the map]. the way the new spawn mechanic looks, there's no opportunity to build special from the safety of your spawn platform, even chargers are spawned in hanging and likely unable to use their weapon.
i guess ofc we'll just have to see, but i don't think getting rid of spawn will get rid of spawn camping sngsng
That would be too dumb even for nintendos stand point also it isnt necessary to have a platfrom if the map is large its just like not a big priority if theres more open maps
@@zetelofabread Which portion would be too dumb sngsng
I mean yeah, personally I just see a problem with tracking where players are jumping to since you can just see them jump through the air, and then just ganging up on them one by one. Especially if the team respawning doesn't have map control. You just jump into enemy ink and territory.
Idk if people are gonn wait at spawn to jump in w several players, and it's not like you can just jump to the other side of the map as it is, it's gonna have limits. I guess with it being less obvious where players are coming from, it'll be better, but Idk.
I'm just thinking especially about weapons that require charging, like Hydra or Charger, who are insanely vulnerable when jumping.
I don't think Nintendo will make every single stage large and open, they'll want variety and you just can't guarantee all maps will have safe spots to jump to all the time. And any maps that do have good areas, you can just camp those spots.
Simply stop spawning.
WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF THAT EARLIER!
LOL
OMG 😃 Wait 👁️👁️ So like... YOU CAN ACTUALLY FOR REAL FOR REAL DIE IN SPLATOON NOW 🤣🤣🤣🤣
i know genius
Hey, glad to see you made the video!
As a... well, C- player who's had the game since launch, has all hero weapons and beaten Octo, level 39, pretty casual (I am NOT a good fighter due to stress and many other reasons, and the pressure of a rank makes me more stressed) (my splat zones bar already has 2 cracks), I felt this. I was in a 4v2 a couple days ago. Started ok, about a minute in one of our players poofed, so I just sort of accepted we lost, then another player disconnected, maybe in rage- I don't know, I was out of spawn by then and I guess my opponents weren't checking map much because I got a decent amount of mid before dying... we were on Inkblot. So the game was trying to find a side pathway to sneak out of spawn and paint whatever I could, activating Ink Armor to give my ally an easier time in fights. We lost with 35% our side - 50% theirs. (I think I was Splat Jr and my only ally was N-Zap 83? One of the N-Zaps). There's wide stages like Musselforge (I'm okay at that one), and smaller ones, like Walleye Warehouse in the video. And that's not getting into certain well known and widely disliked stages. If you're on Moray Towers, you have that tiny platform to yourself. Anywhere else and you're probably getting spawnkilled because the map's pretty linear. You have the side ramps and jumping straight down, and either way you have to get through the middle platform enough and you're most definitely getting spotted and possibly killed if you can't flee (which, considering in Turf War, they probably have that part....) I play against so many players with prestige it's not even funny. Yes I've gotten Superfresh on a few shooters and up to Raw or Fresh on a few more (including slosher), but it took painful ages because, well, I'm not good at the game and I don't know how to adapt well to rotation! Also I don't trust myself to hit the broad side of a barn with a charger, so there's that. Some fundamentals taught by singleplayer help, but let's be real, your opponent will most likely be smarter than the enemy AI. It's painful to get spawncamped, and I get it, but if I'm malding I'm not going to actually be useful.
It's so hard not to get tilted by stuff like that though...especially if there's any indication that they're doing it for fun/to annoy. Even more so if you're casually trying to play.
For a casual, playing the game is their leisure time most likely. Running into a pro, or a troll, completely ruins the mood of why they started playing. Now it's not leisure, it's stressful.
Not to say you're wrong in any way, just trying to justify the mindset of the complainers :P
I can't believe the matchmaking is THAT bad....I mean even in Smash it TRIES to put similar GSP together... I hope that gets fixed in Splat 3
Oh yea thats fine I get why people complain, people just get mad at each other instead of the game which actually creates the problem
@@ProChara Exactly. You really do a good job of explaining that with the Map design and the matchmaking issues.
you can't take the whole objective by yourself without your teammates.
Yep, absolutely agree. I play a lot of Turf War (I'm decent at the game but prefer the more casual energy) and sometimes I've ended up spawncamping when from my perspective we just played well and had them pushed back. To be clear, my team has also gotten punished for overextending into enemy territory and we've been pushed back, and sometimes *I've* been spawncamped. In that scenario it's more the fault of the map design allowing for this scenario to happen. Frustrating but true.
The ultimate way to prevent spawncamping: Squid partying
I once got A LEVEL 2 in my looby and I'm level 70 star. Nintendo PLEASE fix this
“Just get better at the game”
-a human probably
Saw that you mentioned that squidbagging is a legitimate strategy. This makes me want a full video on how to correctly use Squidbagging, since I kinda just do it when I’m in a bad mood and feel good about myself for a kill.
jexst has a good video on it here th-cam.com/video/GtAcP3_EXSc/w-d-xo.html
Thanks! It not only explained squidbagging, it gave me a new channel to watch!
1:24 *LOVE THE SUBHUMAN SELF!*
I'm curious to see what Chara has to say about super jump marker camping
Been having this happen to me and made me everyday I get on the game. Just made me not want to not play this game anymore.
Even with the spawns in the air, spawn camping will still be a problem if your entire area is inked. The enemy can just swim around killing everyone
A probolem with the just stop spawning, they may get reported for inactivity
thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. I always go to turf wars to practice playing charger but my team and I end up getting spawn camped all the time and most people say to just keep trying but this is the type of answer that I wanted. Thank you chara. :)
I like the text messages you put in the thumbnail
Thank you chara u always delivers
My solution to spawn camping is better maps (not like Warehouse or Port Mackerel), more aggressive specials, and getting rid of damage up abilities completely.
I appreciate the tips you put in here! It's way more helpful than "Just get good" or "Practice more LOL".
Some people aren't built for competitive and it's really annoying when a respawn punisher person is purposefully hunting their opponents down from spawn to get the team tilted and have an easy win. Hopefully this won't be too much of a problem thanks to the new spawn mechanics in 3!!
idea for that "knockout in turf war" thing: if one team has over 70% of the map for 30sec straight, they win via knockout.
i just started playing this game and the matchmaking is absolute hell, like not only do you get matched up with super high rated players, but those players will end up on the same team against a team of level 1-20 players. regardless though this game is so fun when its good so i still won't stop playing lol
holy cow. what a great video. damb. i already saw spawncamping as the fault of the devs rather than those who did it, but now i'm actively sympathetic to the people who do it, too.
i will say that casuals misunderstanding the situation is just a little less bad than experienced high-level players being Actively Rude, but that's ultimately a minor nitpick, especially since people online - and especially on twitter - uh... really hate, like. Listening.
S3 Mahi Mahi against a team of experienced chargers -_-
I love diplomatic videos like this
The only time I'll spawn camp is during Rainmaker or Tower Control, where it's naturally going to happen as part of the objective (I suck at the game, so I can't even camp that long anyway). I don't like being spawn camped, I don't like being unable to actually play the game just because the other team feel like boxing us in to win rather than defending the objective. Sure it's a valid strategy but that doesn't mean it's a fair one.
If I do start spawn camping then I'll do so from a distance, where I can hold off the enemy team but I'm not sitting right on top of their spawn where they can't even put a foot out before getting splatted. I'd much rather look at map activity and cut a player off that way.
Flounder heights was my fav map
This is what I've been saying for a while, have a ranked turf war, and a nonranked version of the ranked modes. People that actually like turf war as a concept but hate the people that aren't at their skill level in their lobbies, and give people that like the ranked modes but aren't good at being sweaty a better, less stressful, time playing. It would just make sense
For a knockout function in turf war ther could be a button combo like press pluss and minus and the same time to trigger a surrender vote for your team if everyone agrees the round ends
I like how as Chara is talking about the matchmaking system I look up at my TV and the highest level player that isn't me is a level 54.. I'm a 58 prestige 😭😭
Splatoon is designed in a way where counter play is hard. Specials suck and some specials aren't allways good like bubbles and sting ray forcing you to get out of spawn and then the enemys shooting you or the bubbles. Brellas are good but it's a waste of time. Need a close range weapon? Sploosh,splatter or tentatek. And brellas can be shot at to be broken and depending on the weapon your trapped inside and if there are no beacons or other plays out of spawn then your stuck in spawn. Sting ray can even spawn camp from across the map and effectively. Splatoon needs some fixing and that probably won't happen in 3 becuase nintendo is lazy and just reworks some weapons and won't bother to fix a weapon.
I don't think any main weapon super needs fixing, if anything main weapon balance was overall done well but I agree counterplay in 2 is a bit hard, a lot of hard > soft counters.
@@ProChara yea but I do think some need some fixes. I'm a casual and I thought exploshers were good but I had better experience with aerospray. Some weapons don't feel as rewarding as others (tenta brella, range, carbon). Some weapons are the opposite being too rewarding for less effort, missle spam is easy with some SCU can make make entire team split up or risk dying to missles, force close range encounters or making an enemy leave all by a click of a button. I also feel like splatoon should have some way of dealing with spawn camping effectively. Your idea of more routes is good for spawn campers. Maybe a detection system that helps the team that's spawn camped like more damage,resistance,insta special or a whole combo of it and can be on gear or for every one. No joke if you spawn camp for long enough teams the enemy will just lose becuase of how powerful it is. Hopefully splatoon is actually fixed for these features so games can be less stay in spawn and more of a fair match.
@@Blumoon09 yea thats reasonable, explo is still very good but a lot of satisfying weapons have it a bit harder then they should
@@ProChara those weapons need alot of aim and yet the reward isn't great. So many weapons don't need aim but get the job done (blasters,slosher,sploosh,brushes and rollers) and the weapons that don't are outshines by so many other weapons. I'm kinda mad about paying 20$ a year for bs like hard unrewarding weapons or having to fight against easy weapons that nintendo won't do stuff about. Splatoon needs an overhaul in 3 from an actual balance system that isn't lvl 5s and lvl *99 in the same lobby and for spawncamping to be dealt with. I should try to make a vid on it when I get a mic.
@@ProChara what mic do you use
does it count spawncamping if for example we inked most of the map and the only thing left is close to the enemy's spawn since we have nothing to do