The suggestion of angled corners is a great one. I experimented with this idea with some extra pieces of mdf that are available, and some unhung framed pictures that are available - in my corners - and I do hear an improvement. Awesome!!! I plan to proceed with a more permanent implementation. Thank you.
Nice video. While I was watching I examined the geometry of the room and noticed that the speakers were placed on the center line of the rear wall ends (where they met the corners at 45 degrees), and the intersection where the corners met the long walls, at 90 degrees to them.
this video covered a lot of good information about corners. i would keep the corners and instead angle them with absorbers, they could almost look the same if you wanted to. and as someone else mentioned, and angle the ceiling corners instead of floor corners. i would make a drop down ceiling if you have the height.
I am fortunate to have a decent room to work with and it has a cross beam ~6' in front of the main speakers. I can't do an A/B test but I'm convinced it helps.
Check out a Canadian band Nickelback's Album " Dark Hor" and they're 2008 Album. Rock N' Roll edging on Heavy Metal with excellent Bass and everything else.
High quality speakers usually attempt to avoid sharp edges, square corners, equal dimensions, or flat surfaces where those things will have a negative acoustic effect in a particular situation. But those thing won’t always cause a problem depending on many other factors. The good engineer knows which things to avoid to improve the design, and which things to ignore to prevent excessive complexity and cost
It is best to have the room where it is expanding. By that I mean non parallel walls / floor and ceiling. The only real practical way to do this is to build a room within a room.
@@DodgyBrothersEngineering The thought has occurred to me, dampen a big room and add walls were you want reflections instead of the oposit. I just need to win the lottery before I can try it. 😂
@@DodgyBrothersEngineering Not necessarily. Depends entirely on how you want your floor plan to look like. If building a new house then it's not an issue, but renovating a current one might be. You could always build a dedicated "shed" on the property if that's an option. A room in a room of course is best if sound isolation is a must. No matter what kinda room use as much bass traps as possible and absorption at first reflection points. Most important is acoustic treatment and eq.
No. Put bass traps there if you can. Always use as many bass traps as possible. Even in floor to ceiling corners if possible. Bass accumulates in corners and a 45 degree bevel has two smaller corners compared to a 90 degree one. And a spherical room sounds bad because the bass has no place to accumulate and you have to essentially bass trap the hole spherical "wall".
@@PSA78 I am currently trying to build a new house, if this bloody COVID would ever go away and bring some normality back to the building market. It will be on steel poles which will allow me to build under the house at a later date. I have a 6.5m (21.3ft) x 13m (42.6ft) area designated for the home theatre room / Chillout area. At one end of the room I have been thinking about putting in some tapered inner walls (5 degree taper), to prevent the first reflection from occurring in their normal spot. Angling away from each other will move the first reflection point further down the room. The same for the roof. I could taper the roof upwards from the front (starting lower at the front). It would be a little more effort than just putting plaster over the beams, but not that difficult, as I will have a raw surface to work with.
Yes 90 degree corners are problematic, as any parallel surface. I’d rather a great sounding room and spend a couple thousand , then spend money on equipment. The room is 50% of the system within reason. 🤗
I think you're overestimating corners here. Axial modes, which I believe are the strongest, are caused between two parallel surfaces. Not corners. Treating corners will help but how much of the problem are you really taking care of? Probably like 10%... But yeah I agree, don't put subs in the corner.
Corners are extremely problematic...especially at traffic intersections. Stupid expensive is the carrot on the stick, keeps me joyfully in debt. My wife caught me talking to my walls and corners, and called my therapist to extend my appointments. And the proper expression is "Badda Bing, Badda Boom."
Diffusion panels behind these speakers makes no sense because they are not dipole speakers. They should be at the back wall. Some prefer them as first reflection points too, but that's another debate. Lack of bass traps in all corners and absorption panels at first listening points. Fail. The reason for angled front walls is for soffit mounted or in wall speakers.
They have tweeters in the rear of the speakers. Guess you haven't watched this video or any others that covered the speakers? When playing your system stand behind it at the wall and see how much sound is bouncing around back there.
@@scottyo64 I watched some video about them, but don't know if it was covered in that one. I also have memory problems. In that case there should be more difusers. I am aware that speakers radiate sound in all directions unless it's a cardioid then frequencies above Schroeder are eliminated. For a normal speaker bass traps are far more useful behind speakers. First reflection points, flutter echo and bass eq are the most important to attend. Bass traps and / or multiple subs to reduce room modes. After those you can start worrying about behind the speakers, rear wall reflections and secondary reflection points.
I tied that but it didn't work all that well. The type of foam will make a huge difference. Rock wool might be better behind an acoustically transparent screen. But any of these are absorbers and often do not improve the sound as well as refractors. There's clearly more to it than can be discussed here and unless it's a dedicated room it can be tough to do. That surely doesn't mean to avoid experimentation. I've been trying ideas for almost 60 years and will never stop. Good Luck friend.
@@OldTooly yeah foam does make a difference ideally big bubble foam like cellulose foam, and a gap behind. and is dependant on your wall structures as well if it's brick or drywall.reflection wouldn't work so well off brick wall
how soon until the ovoid listening space becomes the Next Big Thing in audio? kinda like the interior of egg-speakers of decades past. just figure out how to suppress resonance while also releasing excess bass. kinda ironic yet logical - optimal listening space and source space in symmetry.
Wierd though Paul, you have the best speakers in the world and went shotty on the custom listening room.....What ever the construction architect or builder told you...making that wall and ceiling an ampetheator is easy compared making those speakers.....Big scoop and then hit the breaks behind the listening position with a curtain and difusion wall behind it...
you do not need to do this in architecture stage, sharp corners a great place to fit absorbers, otherwise they would take up space. thats why i like them 90 degrees.
There is over 100K worth of equipment in this room. You have hired some of the best industrial designers to design your speakers. I think you should do better than fake plants and cheap lighting in this room. And on a different note, while I am on a rant, I might as well add this note and say that someone of your educational stature, should do a little better when pronouncing foreign words like Qobuz for example. It is really not that hard. None of this has anything to do directly with hi-fi, but if you have the ability and the means (both intellectual and material) to make something better, why not do it.
Might put one of those corner traps in the bathroom, my voice sounds terrible when I'm singing in the shower!
Nature's "auto-tune" ;-)
As long as you don't sing into a colander, you can strain your voice. 🙃
@@RoaroftheTiger 😜
@@PSA78 👍🤭
😂
The suggestion of angled corners is a great one. I experimented with this idea with some extra pieces of mdf that are available, and some unhung framed pictures that are available - in my corners - and I do hear an improvement. Awesome!!! I plan to proceed with a more permanent implementation. Thank you.
Finally...an opinion I can get on board with...
A beautiful Saturday morning, a hot cup of coffee, and sitting on the couch, enjoying a new Paul video. About as good as it gets.
Nice video. While I was watching I examined the geometry of the room and noticed that the speakers were placed on the center line of the rear wall ends (where they met the corners at 45 degrees), and the intersection where the corners met the long walls, at 90 degrees to them.
this video covered a lot of good information about corners.
i would keep the corners and instead angle them with absorbers, they could almost look the same if you wanted to.
and as someone else mentioned, and angle the ceiling corners instead of floor corners.
i would make a drop down ceiling if you have the height.
I am fortunate to have a decent room to work with and it has a cross beam ~6' in front of the main speakers. I can't do an A/B test but I'm convinced it helps.
Such beauty,I wish I can afford these fr 30s before I die!
Thank you Paul
Those are 135 degree angles not 45. 45’s are one half a right angle.
Good point because they are obtuse not acute.
@@DodgyBrothersEngineering obviously, Paul's bias is to be a-cute to obtuse.
It’s a trap!
Check out a Canadian band Nickelback's Album " Dark Hor" and they're 2008 Album. Rock N' Roll edging on Heavy Metal with excellent Bass and everything else.
Strangely John Hunter at REL advises you to place a sub in a corner, which is exactly what I do 🙂
i don't like the rounded bottom on those cabinets. makes it look unstable.
What does looks unstable mean; it’s either unstable or it isn’t an obviously these are not
@@robertbyington7715 self explanatory. means that it looks as if it were slightly bumped it would fall over.
clearly it won't, but it looks that way
@@jw-lk1pe
Understood guess it’s just a matter of preference but knowing how anal PS audio is with their build quality I’m sure it wasn’t accidental
Since I live in apartment I put angled bass traps in the corners. Not sure if the help the bass but the do help the sound.
Do speaker cabinets have angled corners on the inside of the cabinet?
High quality speakers usually attempt to avoid sharp edges, square corners, equal dimensions, or flat surfaces where those things will have a negative acoustic effect in a particular situation. But those thing won’t always cause a problem depending on many other factors. The good engineer knows which things to avoid to improve the design, and which things to ignore to prevent excessive complexity and cost
Why not do the same with the horizontal corners?
Anyone got the name for those “abfusors” or what Paul called them?
By this logic is it better to have a 45 degree bevel where the walls meet the ceiling?
It is best to have the room where it is expanding. By that I mean non parallel walls / floor and ceiling. The only real practical way to do this is to build a room within a room.
@@DodgyBrothersEngineering The thought has occurred to me, dampen a big room and add walls were you want reflections instead of the oposit.
I just need to win the lottery before I can try it. 😂
@@DodgyBrothersEngineering Not necessarily. Depends entirely on how you want your floor plan to look like. If building a new house then it's not an issue, but renovating a current one might be. You could always build a dedicated "shed" on the property if that's an option. A room in a room of course is best if sound isolation is a must. No matter what kinda room use as much bass traps as possible and absorption at first reflection points. Most important is acoustic treatment and eq.
No. Put bass traps there if you can. Always use as many bass traps as possible. Even in floor to ceiling corners if possible. Bass accumulates in corners and a 45 degree bevel has two smaller corners compared to a 90 degree one. And a spherical room sounds bad because the bass has no place to accumulate and you have to essentially bass trap the hole spherical "wall".
@@PSA78 I am currently trying to build a new house, if this bloody COVID would ever go away and bring some normality back to the building market. It will be on steel poles which will allow me to build under the house at a later date. I have a 6.5m (21.3ft) x 13m (42.6ft) area designated for the home theatre room / Chillout area. At one end of the room I have been thinking about putting in some tapered inner walls (5 degree taper), to prevent the first reflection from occurring in their normal spot. Angling away from each other will move the first reflection point further down the room. The same for the roof. I could taper the roof upwards from the front (starting lower at the front). It would be a little more effort than just putting plaster over the beams, but not that difficult, as I will have a raw surface to work with.
" Ba-da Bing, Ba-da BOOM." ;-)
Yes 90 degree corners are problematic, as any parallel surface. I’d rather a great sounding room and spend a couple thousand , then spend money on equipment. The room is 50% of the system within reason. 🤗
Yeah but it's idiotic to waste space for absorbers like done here
Yes there are a lot of things that are stupid expensive in audio like these speakers.
Build Angled speaker cabinets 😀👍
Why angled not rounded?
I think you're overestimating corners here. Axial modes, which I believe are the strongest, are caused between two parallel surfaces. Not corners. Treating corners will help but how much of the problem are you really taking care of? Probably like 10%... But yeah I agree, don't put subs in the corner.
Corners are extremely problematic...especially at traffic intersections. Stupid expensive is the carrot on the stick, keeps me joyfully in debt. My wife caught me talking to my walls and corners, and called my therapist to extend my appointments. And the proper expression is "Badda Bing, Badda Boom."
yea, drywall.. some of us have concrete walls lol
Which speakers are those? They make an impression!
PS Audio FR30
What about setting up speakers across a corner, i.e., with the 90deg corner centred between two speakers, in a odd shaped open plan room?
🛸🛸🛸🛸
Diffusion panels behind these speakers makes no sense because they are not dipole speakers. They should be at the back wall. Some prefer them as first reflection points too, but that's another debate. Lack of bass traps in all corners and absorption panels at first listening points. Fail. The reason for angled front walls is for soffit mounted or in wall speakers.
They have tweeters in the rear of the speakers. Guess you haven't watched this video or any others that covered the speakers?
When playing your system stand behind it at the wall and see how much sound is bouncing around back there.
@@scottyo64 I watched some video about them, but don't know if it was covered in that one. I also have memory problems. In that case there should be more difusers. I am aware that speakers radiate sound in all directions unless it's a cardioid then frequencies above Schroeder are eliminated. For a normal speaker bass traps are far more useful behind speakers. First reflection points, flutter echo and bass eq are the most important to attend. Bass traps and / or multiple subs to reduce room modes. After those you can start worrying about behind the speakers, rear wall reflections and secondary reflection points.
No corners then proceeds to talk about the 8 corners in the room?
To my understanding, to be able to play speakers like this optimally, you need to invest first on making the room exactly like Paul’s.
or you could just put some 6" foam against the corner would be attach it with Velcro
I tied that but it didn't work all that well. The type of foam will make a huge difference. Rock wool might be better behind an acoustically transparent screen. But any of these are absorbers and often do not improve the sound as well as refractors. There's clearly more to it than can be discussed here and unless it's a dedicated room it can be tough to do. That surely doesn't mean to avoid experimentation. I've been trying ideas for almost 60 years and will never stop. Good Luck friend.
@@OldTooly yeah foam does make a difference ideally big bubble foam like cellulose foam, and a gap behind. and is dependant on your wall structures as well if it's brick or drywall.reflection wouldn't work so well off brick wall
how soon until the ovoid listening space becomes the Next Big Thing in audio? kinda like the interior of egg-speakers of decades past. just figure out how to suppress resonance while also releasing excess bass. kinda ironic yet logical - optimal listening space and source space in symmetry.
Wierd though Paul, you have the best speakers in the world and went shotty on the custom listening room.....What ever the construction architect or builder told you...making that wall and ceiling an ampetheator is easy compared making those speakers.....Big scoop and then hit the breaks behind the listening position with a curtain and difusion wall behind it...
There are not many houses architected with the mindset of an audiophile.
you do not need to do this in architecture stage, sharp corners a great place to fit absorbers, otherwise they would take up space. thats why i like them 90 degrees.
@@sudd3660 Agree, true about this specific feature of a room.
Nonsense unless it's a hidden absorber
There is over 100K worth of equipment in this room. You have hired some of the best industrial designers to design your speakers. I think you should do better than fake plants and cheap lighting in this room.
And on a different note, while I am on a rant, I might as well add this note and say that someone of your educational stature, should do a little better when pronouncing foreign words like Qobuz for example. It is really not that hard.
None of this has anything to do directly with hi-fi, but if you have the ability and the means (both intellectual and material) to make something better, why not do it.