thats gotta be one of the most valuable foxes in the world, in the late 90s I bought a ssp car from co springs state patrol, came with a padded 4 pnt bar. white with blue int. car was in great shape. they kept in in a garage, not used in winter, to this day has no rust, best car I ever had, after about 65 thousand miles had to rebuild rear end and t5, 5 gear bearing started making noise. got it at 75 thousand miles and nothing broke ever on her.
Someone pointed out recently that moving water too fast though the radiator can be counter productive if it isn't allowing enough time to cool or your cooling there is insufficient. Lots of variables. Thanks for the gasket portion of this vid I have one to install today and its been a year or two
I see Manitoba plates! Howdy my fellow Canadian neighbor🍻🇨🇦 Good show, you opened some good discussion. One thing I would like to mention about sbf water pumps since we are on the topic is the two bolts that hold on the backing plate. I have been coming accross pumps with thick bolt heads that contact the timing cover and could crack the cover if tightened down tight. I build engines for a living and this has become quite common this year. I build a ton of these little engines and own two foxes of own. This is something that one might not notice while installing a pump while hanging over the nose of the car or fender. Since I get to do my assembly mostly on benches and stands, I am able to spot these little annoyances before they cause a problem. Good content and another sub your way. 🍻🇨🇦 PS, ditch the cheap gasket goup and buy Permatex Right Stuff from now on. Expensive but worth it.
Thanks for the tip about the Right Stuff. I looked into it, and interestingly, Permatex recommends it for everything but water pumps (and exhaust), whereas the Ultra Grey IS recommended for water pumps. And yes, I have seen cracked timing covers from those water pump bolts, thanks for adding that to the discussion.
@@The_Performance_Laboratory hmm, don't recall the rep that introduced this to us mentioning that. That was like 15 years ago though, lol. Great, now I have to be one of those guys that say "well I havn't had any issues". 🤪
We have the same water pump drive setup. When we bought it I was given the impression from the speed shop I where purchased it, that the pump drive was only designed for strip use. Are you using the vacuum advance? Cruising around in high intake vacuum conditions needs the additional timing to compensate for the late burn from the slow flame front speed in the combustion chamber. It also does wonders for fuel economy. 😊👍
Was the electric motor spinning pump going the right way on the first pump? They was both rev pumps. The 351W truck motor of same year uses the same pump hub height but with a bigger impeller, Should help. And weld a disk on the impeller to increase efficiency of impeller. The directional fins in pump chamber does little for performance. Open chamber pumps are used on many engines with no issues. What matters is the impeller being enclosed to prevent turbulence, like you mentioned.
Wow. Looks like someone actually took a page out of the old Durco pump manual. They actually took the time to design the water pump housing like you would a centrifugal pump housing including a cut water and a better enclosed impeller. Your new pump should have an increased water flow as a result of these design changes. Don’t know if the increased flow will be enough to stop your overheating but you at least have a properly designed water pump.
Is that the GMB 125-1560P? If so, the circular holes in the plate are supposed to work with standard or reverse rotation TC. The Edelbrock 5.0L reverse rotation pumps also uses a backing plate with round holes.
Yes, in this video that was the GMP pump I installed. In a later video, I went back to a standard rotation pump (with a belt drive for the highway), but ultimately it wasn't a pump issue, I needed more radiator to keep it cool.
@@The_Performance_Laboratory Thanks buddy. I am going to try an GMB 125-1560P on a mild 393W in a 69 Mustang. Hopefully, I have enough radiator. Keep up the good work.
Do they make a larger pulley for the electric motor? That would be an easy fix to step up pump speed. As long as it doesn’t cause too high of an amp draw on the motor, I would think doubling the drive pulley size would probably solve the problem.
@@The_Performance_Laboratory with your knowledge and attention to detail, I figured you would if they offered one. Sometimes even the best of us miss something simple when trying to solve a frustrating and chronic problem though. I agree with you on needing a larger, all aluminum, radiator. I was taught that if you can’t maintain proper temp while giving your radiator the amount of time it needs to cool the coolant down, you need a bigger radiator and more flow. I’m sure your reading this going, yep, yep, yep. Lol. Hope you are having a good day today. I live with health issues as well. It sucks, but we can either keep living or give up. Living is so much more fulfilling.
What thermostat? If any . If u don’t use one preferably 180 it will hold water in rad long enough to cool it if not a190 should do it I had similar problems and that s what cured problem .90 degree days never went above 180
i guess Im randomly asking but does any of you know of a method to log back into an Instagram account?? I stupidly forgot the account password. I would appreciate any tips you can offer me
Good walk through. What brand was the water pump? Are you using a thermostat? I honestly don't know if you use one with a electric drive. My cars have always been pretty fat and I've never had a issue with overheating. Keep up the good work.
No thermostat (it's still mostly a race car that needs to be cooled quickly between rounds). WP was a high performance GMB unit. Running mine fatter didn't seem to make any difference. I recently ordered a bigger rad, so we'll see if that finally cures the problem this summer.
@@The_Performance_Laboratory No thermostat thats your proublem the water doesnt stay in the radiator long enough to cool down. if you dont want to run one try taking the guts out of the thermostat and that will restrict it a little
@@90tazscooter62 if you slow down the water flow in the rad, you're also slowing it down in the engine, where it will pick up more heat... Greater mass flow rate and higher Reynolds number = more heat transfer, not less.
Did try higher drive ratios, figuring water flow was the limiting issue. Caved and ordered a bigger rad last week, so we'll see what happens this summer.
I thought about that, but with the electric drive, it's running the same speed at idle, and it wasn't collapsing the hose. I have new silicone hoses to go with the new aluminum radiator, so hopefully the problem will be solved this summer.
I haven't been active on the forum there for years, but I read the BangShift news page daily, and I've submitted content over the years too. I'm Wolf in their forum (and way back on their OG livestream chat).
Just throwing 2 cents where it lands I wouldn't recommend using a petroleum grease on coolant hoses. They don't like oils I know from experience in the diesel field when they leak oil into the cooling system it destroys the hoses. I always used silicon spray on the hoses personally.
It’s the electric motor you’re using man 100%. You put a standard belt drive on that pump it’ll keep your temp dead on where’ve you’ve got your fan temp set to. To me the electric pumps aren’t worth the hassle of savings the few hp esp for a street car. At idle they’ll pump more water, but once you pass 2500-3000 rpm not even close to a standard belt drive.
If you watch my other videos, you'll see it's not the electric drive. When I had a different engine in the car, with a slightly tamer cam, I would drive hundreds of miles to/from races with the electric drive and overheating was never a problem.
@@The_Performance_Laboratory ahh ok gotcha. The reason i’ve never liked the electric pumps is that it’s just one more thing that can break, but if your using it for racing purposes and want to squeeze as much hp out as possible I totally get it.
And yet it worked fine with the old engine - I used to drive it hundreds of miles to race and back and never had an overheating problem with that same Moroso motor.
thats gotta be one of the most valuable foxes in the world, in the late 90s I bought a ssp car from co springs state patrol, came with a padded 4 pnt bar. white with blue int. car was in great shape. they kept in in a garage, not used in winter, to this day has no rust, best car I ever had, after about 65 thousand miles had to rebuild rear end and t5, 5 gear bearing started making noise. got it at 75 thousand miles and nothing broke ever on her.
Someone pointed out recently that moving water too fast though the radiator can be counter productive if it isn't allowing enough time to cool or your cooling there is insufficient. Lots of variables. Thanks for the gasket portion of this vid I have one to install today and its been a year or two
I see Manitoba plates! Howdy my fellow Canadian neighbor🍻🇨🇦
Good show, you opened some good discussion. One thing I would like to mention about sbf water pumps since we are on the topic is the two bolts that hold on the backing plate. I have been coming accross pumps with thick bolt heads that contact the timing cover and could crack the cover if tightened down tight. I build engines for a living and this has become quite common this year. I build a ton of these little engines and own two foxes of own. This is something that one might not notice while installing a pump while hanging over the nose of the car or fender. Since I get to do my assembly mostly on benches and stands, I am able to spot these little annoyances before they cause a problem.
Good content and another sub your way. 🍻🇨🇦
PS, ditch the cheap gasket goup and buy Permatex Right Stuff from now on. Expensive but worth it.
Thanks for the tip about the Right Stuff. I looked into it, and interestingly, Permatex recommends it for everything but water pumps (and exhaust), whereas the Ultra Grey IS recommended for water pumps. And yes, I have seen cracked timing covers from those water pump bolts, thanks for adding that to the discussion.
@@The_Performance_Laboratory hmm, don't recall the rep that introduced this to us mentioning that. That was like 15 years ago though, lol. Great, now I have to be one of those guys that say "well I havn't had any issues". 🤪
We have the same water pump drive setup. When we bought it I was given the impression from the speed shop I where purchased it, that the pump drive was only designed for strip use. Are you using the vacuum advance? Cruising around in high intake vacuum conditions needs the additional timing to compensate for the late burn from the slow flame front speed in the combustion chamber. It also does wonders for fuel economy. 😊👍
EFI on this, and has lots of part throttle spark advance, but I might try adding more. Thanks for the tip.
Was the electric motor spinning pump going the right way on the first pump? They was both rev pumps. The 351W truck motor of same year uses the same pump hub height but with a bigger impeller, Should help. And weld a disk on the impeller to increase efficiency of impeller. The directional fins in pump chamber does little for performance. Open chamber pumps are used on many engines with no issues. What matters is the impeller being enclosed to prevent turbulence, like you mentioned.
yes, I had the motor polarity switched so it was reverse rotation.
Put the thermostat back in. The water in the radiator doesn't have time to cool down.
Wow. Looks like someone actually took a page out of the old Durco pump manual. They actually took the time to design the water pump housing like you would a centrifugal pump housing including a cut water and a better enclosed impeller. Your new pump should have an increased water flow as a result of these design changes. Don’t know if the increased flow will be enough to stop your overheating but you at least have a properly designed water pump.
Is that the GMB 125-1560P? If so, the circular holes in the plate are supposed to work with standard or reverse rotation TC. The Edelbrock 5.0L reverse rotation pumps also uses a backing plate with round holes.
Yes, in this video that was the GMP pump I installed. In a later video, I went back to a standard rotation pump (with a belt drive for the highway), but ultimately it wasn't a pump issue, I needed more radiator to keep it cool.
@@The_Performance_Laboratory Thanks buddy. I am going to try an GMB 125-1560P on a mild 393W in a 69 Mustang. Hopefully, I have enough radiator. Keep up the good work.
Probably wouldn't do much but maybe like you said the old backing plate had bigger holes, might be worth a shot.
A pencil outline, and 10 minutes with a rotary grinder makes the Ford universal rotation plates, correct for what you've got.
Do they make a larger pulley for the electric motor? That would be an easy fix to step up pump speed. As long as it doesn’t cause too high of an amp draw on the motor, I would think doubling the drive pulley size would probably solve the problem.
yes, I have a larger pulley on it.
@@The_Performance_Laboratory with your knowledge and attention to detail, I figured you would if they offered one. Sometimes even the best of us miss something simple when trying to solve a frustrating and chronic problem though. I agree with you on needing a larger, all aluminum, radiator. I was taught that if you can’t maintain proper temp while giving your radiator the amount of time it needs to cool the coolant down, you need a bigger radiator and more flow. I’m sure your reading this going, yep, yep, yep. Lol. Hope you are having a good day today. I live with health issues as well. It sucks, but we can either keep living or give up. Living is so much more fulfilling.
If the thermostat is closed while cold... How is the electric water pump circulating that water fully when it's cold and not running
There is no thermostat.
What thermostat? If any . If u don’t use one preferably 180 it will hold water in rad long enough to cool it if not a190 should do it I had similar problems and that s what cured problem .90 degree days never went above 180
I have a restrictor to build block pressure but no thermostat.
Been looking for a well made video like this. Thank you so much!
i guess Im randomly asking but does any of you know of a method to log back into an Instagram account??
I stupidly forgot the account password. I would appreciate any tips you can offer me
@Leandro Killian instablaster =)
Good walk through. What brand was the water pump? Are you using a thermostat? I honestly don't know if you use one with a electric drive. My cars have always been pretty fat and I've never had a issue with overheating. Keep up the good work.
No thermostat (it's still mostly a race car that needs to be cooled quickly between rounds). WP was a high performance GMB unit. Running mine fatter didn't seem to make any difference. I recently ordered a bigger rad, so we'll see if that finally cures the problem this summer.
@@The_Performance_Laboratory No thermostat thats your proublem the water doesnt stay in the radiator long enough to cool down. if you dont want to run one try taking the guts out of the thermostat and that will restrict it a little
@@90tazscooter62 if you slow down the water flow in the rad, you're also slowing it down in the engine, where it will pick up more heat... Greater mass flow rate and higher Reynolds number = more heat transfer, not less.
Can you change the gear ratio ( pulleys ) of the electric water pump to get the flow you need or just a bigger radiator for bigger surface area ?
Did try higher drive ratios, figuring water flow was the limiting issue. Caved and ordered a bigger rad last week, so we'll see what happens this summer.
I'd have ported the water pump separator panel to match the gasket to see if you get more flow.
I'll likely do that next time it's off.
Late to this thread, but that lower radiator hose could be getting sucked shut at higher engine speeds, reducing the water flow.
I thought about that, but with the electric drive, it's running the same speed at idle, and it wasn't collapsing the hose. I have new silicone hoses to go with the new aluminum radiator, so hopefully the problem will be solved this summer.
What symptom were you getting with the cavitation frim the old pump?
Maybe you answered and i missed.
Just not moving enough water to keep cool....or so I thought.
Thanks for the lesson Ed . I've been on Bangshift for years , what's your stage name there ? lol mines langleylad .
I haven't been active on the forum there for years, but I read the BangShift news page daily, and I've submitted content over the years too. I'm Wolf in their forum (and way back on their OG livestream chat).
What part number is the timing cover that u used? Thx
Good question. I don't know..
Wow. Big difference
yup seams evrey gasket sealer i have all the covers snap on purpose so the dam tube will dry out ... they make a killing on them thay
t way
Did you use anti seize on the bolts?
You know... I can't remember. I hope so...
Just throwing 2 cents where it lands I wouldn't recommend using a petroleum grease on coolant hoses. They don't like oils I know from experience in the diesel field when they leak oil into the cooling system it destroys the hoses. I always used silicon spray on the hoses personally.
I've wondered about that. So far I haven't had any problems, but maybe I've been lucky. I think I used synthetic grease, not sure if that helps?
I use dielectric grease
Was that old pump a oem ford pump?
From all appearances, the old pump appeared to be OEM.
It’s the electric motor you’re using man 100%. You put a standard belt drive on that pump it’ll keep your temp dead on where’ve you’ve got your fan temp set to. To me the electric pumps aren’t worth the hassle of savings the few hp esp for a street car. At idle they’ll pump more water, but once you pass 2500-3000 rpm not even close to a standard belt drive.
If you watch my other videos, you'll see it's not the electric drive. When I had a different engine in the car, with a slightly tamer cam, I would drive hundreds of miles to/from races with the electric drive and overheating was never a problem.
@@The_Performance_Laboratory ahh ok gotcha. The reason i’ve never liked the electric pumps is that it’s just one more thing that can break, but if your using it for racing purposes and want to squeeze as much hp out as possible I totally get it.
Surprised. Grey was so hard to find. Most go after the red. Because.. Its high temp and cheaper. Must be better. Hahaha
Those little electric motors don’t turn pump fast enough
And yet it worked fine with the old engine - I used to drive it hundreds of miles to race and back and never had an overheating problem with that same Moroso motor.
My husband and boyfriends love your cute little but, you ever have a penta Date???
The next video can you wear short Daisy Dukes💋💋💞
LOL, I was hoping for women groupies, but I suppose you have to start somewhere...
This video is too long …. Keep it short .. it’s a water pump not a complete overhaul
Breathing brake clean and getting it on the skin is really bad. Common link to lukemia.
Chlorinated brake clean is also deadly if used to clean parts before welding.