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Will SOMEONE make a good closed headphone!? HiFiMan Sundara Closed
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ส.ค. 2024
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A review of the Sundara Closed-Back from HiFiMan including measurements and comparisons with the beyerdynamic DT 700 Pro X, Drop X HiFiMan HE-R7DX, Rode NTH-100 and Sivga Oriole.
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00:00 Teaser
00:19 Introduction
00:46 Glamour video
01:35 Pricing & specs
02:08 Design & comfort
04:42 Sound quality
09:27 Sundara Closed vs DT 700 Pro X
11:31 Sundara Closed vs Drop X HiFiMan HE-R7DX
13:48 Sundara Closed vs Rode NTH-100
15:29 Sundara Closed vs Sivga Oriole
16:27 Final conclusions
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#audiophile #audioreview #headphones
They are for US$149 on Amazon now! Bought! Thanks for the review! Made up my mind instantly after seeing it. 😁😁😁
Great deal! Hope you love them. Glad I could help
99€ on Amazon now...
The price is dropping like a stone.
Drop x Beyerdynamic DT177X GO are still my goto closed back but I love bass and boost it even further.
I was seeing very mixed reviews but after seeing them for $150 on Amazon it was a no brainier. I’m liking them despite the couple of short comings.
That's a great price and they're hard to beat for that money
Many decent closed backs around this price. Closed backs aren’t perfect but they sure do serve a use case
Absolutely! That's partly why I'm lamenting (only gently) the lack of a truly great closed back (IMO)
I compared the Sundara Closed with my DT177X and my T60RP. The T60 is most full bodied, dynamic with slightly better detail and image separation. The 177X sounded better controlled and also had slightly better detail and imaging. I found the Sundara to have the best control and extension in the low end. Thet are all very good. My overall favorite is the T60RP (with Brainwavz hybrid angled pads). Without the pads, they are even more detailed. The 177X is the most balanced of the three, to me. Love your videos. Cheers!
Thanks for sharing your experiences and impressions! 🙂
Do the t60rp share the same drivers as the t50rp? I had some of them once and loved them but they were so hard to drive!
I believe they're a different version of the same kind of driver design (they're definitely both planar magnetic). They are more difficult than the average headphone too so they need a desktop amp or a powerful portable device.
I believe I read it is the same driver, tuned differently. I found them just as challenging to drive as the T50 Argon and the Dekoni Blue (T50 driver). One watt @32 ohms will drive them very well, but 2w and up makes them sing at full potential at only 50% volume (the sweet spot). Not for portable use. @@millenwagon
The T60RP needs about 65mW to reach 110dB so if you have any with 300-400mW at 50 ohms, you've got plenty of headroom already. Aim for quality of power, not quantity to hear them at their best.
As for the drivers, knowing how much better the T60 Argons sound than the T50, I'm not sure it could be the same driver.
Sundara Closed-back on sale for $149.00, while they last ... good review, thanks. Looking forward for these to arrive.
Nice! Hope you enjoy them!
My favourite closed backs to date are the t5p gen 2, but the 1more triple driver is also surprisingly good and often gets missed! Always worth a listen
Agreed, the triple drivers are incredible for their size but it's literally a necessity to replace the stock pads on them which is a shame
@@yoyo.dealer757 yeah it’s a bad design choice imo. You can actually fit brainwavz oval ear pads over the top of them which adds a lot of comfort. It does affect the FR slightly but it’s definitely better than nothing
I never got a chance to try the 1mores. Are they still making headphones?
@@PassionforSound they are indeed, they still sell the 1more triple over but they’re quite expensive directly from them. Even at full price they’re probably worth it though. They’re very impressive for the size and the build quality is quite excellent too. A/b with my t5p was why I sold the beyer, the 1more weren’t that far behind at all, even on par at times!
Thanks for the info!
I happen to have the Final Audio's Sonorous X. Closed headphones don't get much better than that superb sounding titanium-infused underappreciated gem.
Nice! I haven't been able to get any further demo units from Final other than the ZE3000 TWS. Would love to try some of their other options
Thanks for an excellent review, I was looking into the Sundara open or the Sundara closed and definitely I will go with the Sundara Open.
Glad I could help and great choice!
HD280 Pro, K 371, E-MU Teak, Aeon X Closed, D7200, LCD-2 Closed, LCD-XC. There are good ones though some need EQ.
I've tried some of those, but not all. I was deliberately overstating things a bit in my title, but there are no doubt lots out there I still need to try.
AEON 2 closed back is pretty good, not great but for what it offers it works...for myself, the problem is that planars simply don't lend themselves to closed back dynamics. They just need air.
Aeon 2 noire are dammed good for the money
@@aceofspades6667 Yeah, a little lack of dynamics, but great tonality. I've had mine for about a year.
I loved the Noires! Those and the Beyerdynamic T5.3 are my two favourite closed backs so far. DCA Stealth is brilliant too.
@@PassionforSound I recently picked up the Aeolus, and I really like them, so I am very interested in the new portable closed-backed ZMF that is coming out this year.
Yeah, that WILL be interesting!
I think you’re being extraordinarily restrained and diplomatic here. I tried the Sundara closed myself and although I recognize the need to manage expectations at this price point, I was just baffled by the choice of tuning. Bass rolloff on a consumer grade closed back? What’s the point of going closed back if not to get more bass slam and fullness? I didn’t find the noise isolation on these to be substantial enough to justify them. Were they aiming for the recoding engineer set? I don’t get it.
Ever since HFM released their oval pad drivers, I was done with the Sundara/Susvara round offerings. The Edition XS is such a dramatic step up in sound from this for just a shade more money that I can’t fathom the advantages of this other than the fancy driver covers. Given that the R10P was such a bust at an outrageous asking price, I’m waiting to hear how the Audivina sounds-if it doesn’t knock my socks off I think I’ll be closing the book (so to speak) on HFM’s closed back line.
I think it all comes down to what you're expecting from closed backs. I don't look to closed backs for bass so much as a natural, enjoyable sound. While not entirely natural, I quite like the Sundara Closed.
I can vouch for the Denon D9200. It's pricey but If you like the Fostex sound but refined to higher definition, good bass slam without the excess bloat and much faster decay, then I recommend you hear them.
Vs the 7200?
I agree, I use it with the Feliks Echo MK2 OTL tube amp, Bluesound node and Toppng D70s dac
I've actually got a D9200 review queued up for release soonish 🙂
Give the Denon D9200 a try, you'll be surprised.
I've actually got a finished review of it in the queue and coming soon.
@@PassionforSound looking forward to it
@PassionforSound
Good evening, one thing bothers me after consulting several reviews, most of the tests were carried out without the pre-required break-in by the manufacturer and with the original cable. My question is, have you had a chance to try the headphones with a balanced 4.4mm jack to dual 3.5mm jack cable and with the recommended break-in times?
Yes. I always use headphones for an extended period before drawing any conclusions and/or taking my notes for reviews so there's always plenty of burn-in time. I also always test from the best possible device I can to hear the absolute best from the headphones. Whether it's balanced or single ended isn't relevant to the performance of the headphone as it depends on the quality of the circuit outputting the sound, not which connection type is used. A great 3.5mm or 6.3mm output (like the Chord TT2) will beat a lesser 4.4mm or 4-pin XLR output every time. (And vice versa where a better balanced output will beat a lesser single ended output)
I own a Sennheiser 600 series and I'm interested in other headphones with more bass right now, the Sendara Close Back are 150 dollars for that price, are they worth it?
I think so, but they're a slightly unnatural tuning. If you're looking for a good, bassy headphone, maybe try the Apos Caspian: th-cam.com/video/gtmzTW19pw4/w-d-xo.htmlsi=NrC0Swr_6vF8p5z7
The Rode NTH-100 th-cam.com/video/1GgPLxZivxw/w-d-xo.htmlsi=vHdIgoohPQ79gnMo or HarmonicDyne Zeus Elite th-cam.com/video/MWh4uOlhgeQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=vx33Ry8-cGgGYTk4 could be interesting too.
Has anyone compared these to the Shure 1540? I love the Shure but after 7 years thinking of replacement time
I haven't. I've been wanting to try Shure's headphone range for ages.
Thanks for this review man, it’s a shame that so many people here are suggesting or recommending closed back headphones that cost much more than this.
Yes. I think the Sundara Closed are actually excellent for their cost. Glad you liked the review!!
there is always DT770 and DT1770
Practically speaking, I consider the Fostex T60RP planars almost closed-back. Can I ask how the upper registers from the Sundara closed compare with the T60 Argons?
The T60RPs are smoother in the top-end than the Sundaras. The T60RPs are lovely through the mids, but roll-off a bit more in the bass so they are easier to listen to for longer sessions compared to the SCs, but the SCs are a bit more dynamic and exciting. (All based on memory of the T60RPs so take with a little salt 😉)
So many reviewers belittling them, yet I LOVE THEM!
Yes. I think there's too much focus on target curves and preferential tunings. I'm with you in just enjoying them for what they are. 🙂
Great video as always! I have been looking for a close back for use in the office and I have been considering this or the cheaper R9s. I’m only going to use a portable amp with it, nothing fancy.
Personally, I'd go with the Sundara Closed over the R9s.
How would you compare this with Deva Pro? Thanks :) And running it without an Amp will it decrease the performance of the Sundara Closed Back?
These are quite different headphones. The Sundara Closed has stronger bass and less sense of space compared to the Deva Pro. And yes, running the Sundara Closed without an amp will reduce the sound quality if your source doesn't already have a strong amp stage.
@@PassionforSound Thank you :)
Excellent review. Greetings from Caracas Venezuela
So glad you liked it!
I have Sundara (open), Philips Fidelio and HE400SE. Open Sundara are my favourite. I wanted something closed so I got the closed Sundara and the BD 770 Pro. I didn't like the 900 Pro X back then (a couple years ago) when I compared them to Sundara. In any case, important to say: the closed Sundara are NOT Sundara, they are different drivers. For whoever is interested, if you are getting the closed Sundara because you need sound isolation, don't bother: they don't block anything from outside (people speaking) while the 770 Pro are indeed isolating much more (though I am pretty sure I prefer the sound of the closed Sundara). The closed Sundara don't seem to block any more sound compared to the Fidelio or the HE400SE...so it is kind of pointless. Paying 400 for the closed Sundara also doesn't make much sense, and my comment is relative to them being 150 and pretty much on par (with price) to the 770 Pro. Noise isolation (outside to inside) is a deal breaker, then I'd rather use open ones.
Thanks for sharing your experiences. Not all closed backs are as much about sound isolation as they are about preventing sound leakage and closed backs are not intended (or able) to be direct copies of their open back siblings generally.
On the topic of closed backs...I noticed your database has nothing on Ultrasone headphones, have you tried any?I'm in Asia, I find old demo units and versions in stores here (some retailing over 2000-3000usd originally). I found one that was slashed down by 65% so I demoed them [Edition 8EX closed back], and found them warm with a punchy base, which would seem like something that would appeal to some people . But there seems to be no reviews on them, even the internet is strangely radio silent on ultrasone or you find threads of people that simply hated their headphones. The headphone show did a review on one of their flaghships, but that is about it. It makes sense people don't like them, considering the trend these days for overly neutral tunings, but your channel always seemed more open to such tunings in the past.
I've owned two Ultrasones over the years - an HFI model (can't recall which one) and the Edition 8 (regular version). They are definitely interesting headphones and some of the most spacious sounding closed backs. The Edition 8 had a bit too much upper midrange energy around 2kHz though and sounded a bit unnatural on vocals
Do you think the Sundara Closed could be driven well from a Phone headphone jack?
I think it would go ok, but a basic dongle would lift its performance significantly. Maybe look at the Moondrop Dawn Pro: th-cam.com/video/GSdQE1Y04K0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=WkrXYLIcKaYCo8Z_
177x with dekoni jerzee pads
How about the Dan Clark Stealth ($4K! ouch) or Sony MDR-Z1R ?
I like the Stealth. Yet to try the Z1R
These or meze 99 neo. Both are 190e in here.
99 Neo if you like bass. Sundara Closed if you want something a little closer to (but not) neutral. 🙂
Are they worth picking up new for $150? My other pair of headphones are the open back sundaras.
I think so. They're a nice closed back, but they are tuned quite differently from the open version. The HarmonicDyne Athena is the other one to consider around the same price IMO.
@@PassionforSound Checking out your video on them now.
Try the Eslab remake of the legendary Sony R10. ES-R10
hey there, thanks for the in-depth look at them! I am an entry-level producer of my own music, and am thinking about them for mixing/mastering possibilities, as the waves nx has the sundara profile (i think open), as opposed to my open harmonicdyne poseidon... So that i do not have two open and no close, i am thinking of trying this one with the nx sundara profile - do you think that might work, to get a reliable balanced frequency output for mix reference (i run them through a forcusrite scarlett 2i2)?
If the profile is for the open Sundara, it will throw it way off, unfortunately.
I'd probably suggest the DT 700 Pro X or HarmonicDyne Athena as better options for mixing.
@@PassionforSound ❤️yeah I chose to aim for the open sundara now, so I hope it works (they're on their way). Thanks a lot for your help. Seems I made the right decision. 😊
Good call! They're an excellent headphone
I just received my Sundara Closed and I find them lacking in the mids/upper mids. I just feel a lack of "sparkle" and air. Many instruments, and sometimes voices, feel too "distant". Also, these headphones are WAY too heavy. I will return them and try the Sundara Open as soon as I can find them at a decent price...
Sorry to hear that you're not enjoying them. They're definitely an interesting tuning. What are you driving them from (and no, I'm not about to tell you they need more power 🙂)
@@PassionforSound topping dx3+ pro!
I haven't heard the DX3+ Pro so I'm not sure if it's sound signature, but it seems the Sundara open back will be a better choice regardless. Hope you get a pair soon.
@@PassionforSoundI don't think it's Topping's fault, since with my old Sennheisers 595 it sounds even too bright! (and pretty thin TBH... Sundaras sound waaaaay fuller).
Yeah, I doubt it's the Topping too. The Sundara Closed have an interesting tuning. The open version are likely to be more pleasing.
I wanna see Lachlan trash something. I wanna hear him say this is sh*t lol. Thought this might be that review as I couldn’t listen to the Sundara closed for more than a minute as they were honky and weirdly tuned and not even close to the Open Sundara.
Yeah, I wouldn't use these for anything really and even EQ doesn't change that.
Lachlan is way too professional to trash a product or vendor with that language. You want profanity laced bashing try Zeus reviews.
He is a respectful gentleman, so he has a Recommendation Lists.
I very rarely trash anything because almost every product has its merits and people who will enjoy it, but there are a few products that didn't rate a recommendation in any way.
I quite liked the Sundara Closed though. I'd choose the OG open Sundara for sure over the closed version, but for a closed back, I think the SC is solid.
It’s a shame that you didn’t have an Audeze Maxwell to do a comparison to.
Yeah, Audeze is next to impossible for me to get demos of ☹️
Did you try the celestee? It was marked down to 500usd here so I took a chance on them despite the fact that I don't like focal headphones. I ended up loving them, go figure, and will be selling my Aeon Nories. The celestee has a smaller soundstage, but it is intimate. The Dan Clark headphones I have owned all seem dead neutral to me, and that isn't how I enjoy music. Reviews called the Celestee near analytical in tuning, but that was not my experience. With a bit of eq they have become my favorite closed back, so I can never say anything negative about focal again. I guess there is no accounting for taste....
I've not tried the Celestee
Bought on Amazon for 250€, i like my grado sr325e but a I need a closed all-round too
That's a good deal. Enjoy!
@@PassionforSound thanks👍
Can you consider doing a Stax headphone review? The 700 would be a good one to start with.
L700 mk2
I'd love to and that's also where I'd like to start. It's on my radar to chase up with the local distributor - I'm a little swamped at the moment though
@@PassionforSound that sounds great, looking forward to your thoughts, as I'm looking to buy a pair of these plus energiser in a couple of years❤️
Sundara Closed is now for $250 in Poland
Good deal!
Other than my old Sony WH-1000XM2, the only closed-back headphone I have in my collection is the Focal Elegia. I bought brand new more than a year ago without testing but haven’t got even 30 hours on it. I find it to be too bright for me, I just can’t take it. I’m thinking of getting a Lokius or hope that Roon’s EQ will help (does Roon has EQ?), thought of subscribing. Would love any suggestions of ear pads to make it better because I’ll lose more than 50% off what I’d paid for so I’m trying to make it work. Perhaps I’ll let it run for many hours? Will that help?
A lot of people say Dekoni sheepskin pads are good with Elegia, but I haven’t personally heard them.
@@gramblor1 anyone who has tried them can share your take on it.,
Dekoni Custom. That’s the way. Bass is boosted. Treble tamed, but still a highly detailed and resolving headphone. I did about 50-60 hours of burn in as well. They are just rounding into form. But trust me, the Dekoni Customs are the way to go. Not sheepskin, not fenestrated, just the “Custom” version.
They’re really a great set, just need a little TLC
Will you be reviewing the Hifiman EF600?
Sure will - with a little twist too 😉
ThanksMuch !
I personally love the focal radiance
Focal is several times more expensive than this
@@jacksonc3n601 true !
Thx for your video. I love Techno music, do you think this headphone do the job ?!? If not, how closed back do the better please ?!?
I think this would do great for techno 🙂
@@PassionforSound thx for your return. I appreciate that. And yes i need a headphone with big bassline 👍👍
@@PassionforSound how do you think about the DCA AEON X closed back or the Fostex th610 ?!?
The Aeon X should be great too. I haven't heard it, but love the Aeon Noire. The Fostex 610 is another one I haven't heard, but I loved the TH-600.
Hi! How is compared with Hifiman R9?
The Sundara is a less bassy sounding headphone and I prefer it a bit for that reason.
These are 150 right now and I'm looking between the sundara closed back, dt 770 pros, ath m50x's, and possibly the HD 560 S (they're also on sale for 150, but I'm torn because I'm in a situation where I'd prefer closed backs). Do you have any suggestions, are the sundara closed backs simply the best option or not? To be honest, I'm not too certain what the major differences between the more expensive sundara closed back and the other options are.
The Sundara Closed are solid, but I probably prefer the HarmonicDyne Athena for similar money. It's very hard to recommend headphones without knowing a bit more about your preferences and how you're using them. What are you wanting them for (e.g. types of music, gaming, videos, etc.) and what type of sound do you like (e.g. lots of bass, very neutral, crisp and detailed, etc.)?
@@PassionforSound I’d use them for games, music, and movies/tv in around equal quantities. I do most things on my pc. I’d say I probably prefer more neutral sounding headphones, preferring vocals if anything. For reference, I’ve been using status cb-1’s for a few years and like them a lot for the price, but they’re on the verge of breaking. I know the m50x are similar, but I want an increase in sound quality more than anything.
@@PassionforSound oh, also I’d say comfort would be #2 after sound quality since I’ll be wearing them a lot
I'd give the HarmonicDyne Athena a go. They're not 100% closed, but they fit your description in every other way, I think.
@@PassionforSound they aren’t available anywhere I’ve looked
lol! Just so much lol!! That so called Reviewer over here in that Video said: "i think the sundara closed at the price they are (€400), are one of the best options on the market".
And now that the price of Sundara closed have dropped to €150, he is now actually comparing the Sundara Closed with other €150 headphones in the comments? And even is now suddenly of the opinion that there are better alternatives than the Sundara Closed in this price range of €150? This is absolutely ridiculous.
All of you tech TH-camrs are totally unbelievable chatterboxes!
You might want to check the dates of the reviews. When I reviewed the Sundara, the Athena didn't exist. Also, I pretty clearly raised the drawbacks of the Sundara in this video. Give it a rest please
not for me. but i like those hoodies ✌😎👍
Glad you like the hoodies!
The Z1R...if you like it, you love it.
I definitely want to try the Z1R
@@PassionforSound They are my endgame, such an enjoyable listen.
I bought a used Schiit Loki to tame the upper mid-lower treble peak in my Grado SR-80x's and would use its top band to tame the Sundara Closed. Among $100-150 US headphones, the Grado's snappy transients and neutral vocal range are hard to beat.
Are the SR-80x a closed back?
@@PassionforSound No, the basic Grado SR's are all open back. As you've often said, each of us accept or reject bumps and dips in the frequency response differently.
Ah yes - there's that too. Grado are very clever with their specific tuning approach. On a graph, it makes little sense, but when you listen, they're so much fun!
Are these worth it at $150?
For $150? Yes, I think so. It's worth considering the HarmonicDyne Athena if you're not aware of those though.
@@PassionforSound thank you for your response!
My pleasure.
Can you review Grado sr325x
Probably not. I can only access Grado headphones if they happen to come up for secondhand sale.
Argons?
I liked them, but didn't love them
Could not pass them up for $149!
Nice price!
6080?
What's that?
@@PassionforSound the tube on your shirt :p
Oh, haha. It was actually a whole range of tubes, but I don't remember which ones I was discussing. Might have been 6080/6AS7 variants or maybe EL34, 6L6, KT-88 tibes
You're kidding right? The Verite Closed is the only closed back you need. Perhaps the Atrium Closed as well!
Are you kidding with your comment?
Lachlan said:
The Sundara closed is a good option for a closed back headphone within its price point.
Comparing a £380 headphone to a £2500 headphone is not very useful for anyone.
@@sjqideez6626 there is no correlation price/performance when it comes to audio
I disagree, Fred. There are very few products (if any) that actually outperform equivalent products in higher price tiers.
As for the VC and AtC, TheHighTower, I've tried the VC and have the AtC here at the moment and neither is perfect. Both are very good, but closed backs are all generally flawed in different ways.
DCA Aeon X Closed is a pretty great one.
@@PassionforSound i agree and put my review of vc out mentioning its flaws as well which is not minor.
Sound review withoud sound examples so stupid idea.
I'm curious about the review of :
Ananda NANO
Aria ORGANIC
🫡
On the way. They arrived this week