So who’s your audience you’re trying to target? The average home theater enthusiast doesn’t have 20k for a Trinnov processor! Ive personally been a Denon fan for a longtime. I just bought the Denon AVR-A110 and that was the best value/performance ratio I’ve experienced to date. The A110 is no slouch by any stretch! In addition I also bought an Emotiva XPA-5 to power my soundstage in a 9.2.4 config. I’m running all Klipsch Reference speakers with dual SVS SB16 Ultra’s. My room is acoustically treated properly after several calibrations with different methods and types of calibration sources and I’ve finally got my system sounding excellent. You don’t have to have a Trinnov budget to achieve incredible audio results.
I agree 👍👌👏🤘 I have a very nice Onkyo Rz820 THX AVR and it's been wonderful. How do you think I can really open up the sound and get real channel separation? Just add more amplification? I just upgraded to Focal 806 and matching center channel with surround and have atoms speakers in the ceiling.
I gotta say these blokes give really great advice. I’ve advocated to my friends that if they are on a tight budget for audio, do a really good quality gear 5.1 install and wire for 7.1+Atmos and a second sub for later.
The question was AVR or Separates What was the answer? If you have the budget get a Trinov. Really? The question wasn't answered at all! You don't need $25k or more to choose a AVR or Separates. And answer the question not solely on budget! I mean, if I have a budget of $250K I can go all out on tech. But how about $4K... Go AVR or Separates?
You wouldn't get tremendously good separates on a 4K budget, if they even exist. Most separates are targeted at self-professed audiophiles, and trust me audiophiles would snub anything costing that low on basic principle. Can you imagine an audiophile buying an HDMI cable less than $100? What would their friends think? Monster Cable started selling things at decent prices and as a result they aren't really a brand any audiophile will look at any more. Their quality didn't go down (they were always shit-tier), only their prices. So good luck finding a sub-4K combo of amps and processors. I hope you already have your cables, speakers and everything else.
@@GameSack Again: The question was AVS or Separates and not which demographic is the target. You can get good Separates with amps for $4K or even less if you go for used devices. Are they as good as a Trinov or Storm Audio or Datasat? Of course not. But is the last drop of quality worth it to spend $50k in a setup? Probably not. As for cables: I don't need and never will buy a HDMI cable for $100 per meter. Same for speaker cable. It's usually Snake Oil BS.
applying audiophile standards to home theater is ridiculous, movies have totally artificial soundtracks. i just got a receiver with a complete set of pre outs,hooked up a bunch of amps, sounds great. The standards for my audio system are a lot higher
@@bendermac Right, but used equipment is not often readily available. Honestly I don't think it's an either/or answer. Get what fits your budget and is available at the time.
I think this guy lives in a dream world. I just stopped following his channel because you can tell he’s nothing more than a spoiled brat that thinks he’s a DJ too. I’ve seen enough of this guy.
I’m saving my spare change to go with a “ separates “ config for my dream theatre of Monolith processor, Monolith multi channel amps ( 2-7 channel) and two of their “15 inch subs. For me, arguably almost as good as the ultra high end stuff, but will I notice the difference? And does get me closer to a budget approach....
I think a good question to ask is. What are some Trinnov alternatives that don't cost the price of a brand new car. I've seen processors for 3k or the marantz 7706.. how good would that be vs a AVR?
My goal is separates but to afford a Processors and amps at the same time is not in the cards so I bought an AVR that will work and will continue to add quality amps one at a time until I can drive my 11 channels and then I will add a processor. This method also allows me to get the most advanced processor as that will be 3-5 years in the future
40k just in amps and prepro, you don't have any speakers or a video system yet. so try closer to 60-100k. But I bet if you took their say 60K audio subsystem, speakers amps and processor, in the same room, swapped it out for a competent but reasonable alternative say 10-15k, similar frequency capabilities etc did a blind a/b on it, and took measurments, it would be better damn close, and measure even closer. Took 50 average people who don't do it for a living and don't know specific tonal characteristics of certain equipment, , I bet the verdict would be split which they prefer.
Arcam processor and Arcam amps are expensive but not Trinnov expensive. One thing I totally agree is proper speaker positioning and some basic treatment is the most important aspect. Surround sound is implemented strictly to work with specific layouts and if positioning is off you won’t get best immersion you can.
The best AV processor "separates" are Denon's AVR's. The X8500H has better DAC/preamp performance than any dedicated AV processor out there besides the Trinnov. It just happens to have amplifiers in it as well (that are themselves quite good). Unless you're going to get a Trinnov, your best bet is to get a Denon and use really good amplifiers where you want them.
@@erod9088 Like the guy in the video said, I'd rather do my room correction in the room itself. The processor or AVR can be used for EQ (31 band preferred but 10 or 11 bands is better than nothing) and speaker distance. If your room is good you really don't need more "correction" than that.
@@erod9088 measurably better? yeah, to the point of it mattering with human hearing, and to overcome room and speaker interaction? eh not so much. Once you're at good enough, where you aren't getting distortion or noise in the audible range, who cares if it goes better?
Personal preference I guess, but i'd rather have a mediocre or average atmos system, then a peak performing 5.1. I think as a whole you'll have a more enjoyable, greater difference of experience with that, especially if you've had 5.1 before. it adds a new dimension of sound (no pun intended) and it really doesn't take that much to make Atmos good enough, you don't really need or benefit from large, full range ceiling speakers all that much over some basic in ceiling or bookshelf style, and yet it gives you that new experience. I'd rather shave $1000 (or in the products these guys often deal with, several thousand) off my lcr's whether speakers or amps, and get a nice .4, and loose a little bit of output, or design from the mains, maybe a veneer instead of high gloss or solid wood. Certainly wouldn't put it in to cables vs extra channels. The main thing I agree with is room treatment, that can turn a poorly performing system into a decent one without too much expense. I just don't really see the point in a Trinov unless you have 15 or more channels, and/or a challenging room with less then optimal speaker placement. Even if you can hear that extra little bit of channel separation, is your budget really better served there then with better multiple subs, or hell maybe even a Lumagin scaler. If you got the money, splurge to your hearts content, but don't expect a movie changing experience, especially if you never experienced something of that caliber, you won't know what you are missing.
The main reason to go separates route is to separate the amp from preamp. The amp section is high powered and causes inevitable distortions in pre amp. Using the preamp section of integrated amps does not really disable the amp section. Also, if you like your music or movies loud, your preamp will clip even if you don’t use the amp section. Also your integrated amp will heat up and go into overheat protection even if you only use preamp out. For all practical purposes, it is as if you really can’t turn off the amp section no matter what you do. Waste of energy, overheating and shorter life span of your equipment are major drawbacks.
Can't the amp section be disabled on most newer receivers? I can remember seeing a video recently about a Denon (I think) where these can be fully disabled if you are using the pre-outs.
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So who’s your audience you’re trying to target? The average home theater enthusiast doesn’t have 20k for a Trinnov processor! Ive personally been a Denon fan for a longtime. I just bought the Denon AVR-A110 and that was the best value/performance ratio I’ve experienced to date. The A110 is no slouch by any stretch! In addition I also bought an Emotiva XPA-5 to power my soundstage in a 9.2.4 config. I’m running all Klipsch Reference speakers with dual SVS SB16 Ultra’s. My room is acoustically treated properly after several calibrations with different methods and types of calibration sources and I’ve finally got my system sounding excellent. You don’t have to have a Trinnov budget to achieve incredible audio results.
I agree 👍👌👏🤘
I have a very nice Onkyo Rz820 THX AVR and it's been wonderful. How do you think I can really open up the sound and get real channel separation? Just add more amplification? I just upgraded to Focal 806 and matching center channel with surround and have atoms speakers in the ceiling.
I gotta say these blokes give really great advice. I’ve advocated to my friends that if they are on a tight budget for audio, do a really good quality gear 5.1 install and wire for 7.1+Atmos and a second sub for later.
Andrew, that was the best advice I could have gotten, as I struggle with the potential cost of this, vs. half-assing extra channels. 🙏
The question was AVR or Separates
What was the answer? If you have the budget get a Trinov. Really?
The question wasn't answered at all! You don't need $25k or more to choose a AVR or Separates. And answer the question not solely on budget! I mean, if I have a budget of $250K I can go all out on tech. But how about $4K... Go AVR or Separates?
You wouldn't get tremendously good separates on a 4K budget, if they even exist. Most separates are targeted at self-professed audiophiles, and trust me audiophiles would snub anything costing that low on basic principle. Can you imagine an audiophile buying an HDMI cable less than $100? What would their friends think? Monster Cable started selling things at decent prices and as a result they aren't really a brand any audiophile will look at any more. Their quality didn't go down (they were always shit-tier), only their prices. So good luck finding a sub-4K combo of amps and processors. I hope you already have your cables, speakers and everything else.
@@GameSack Again: The question was AVS or Separates and not which demographic is the target. You can get good Separates with amps for $4K or even less if you go for used devices. Are they as good as a Trinov or Storm Audio or Datasat? Of course not. But is the last drop of quality worth it to spend $50k in a setup? Probably not.
As for cables: I don't need and never will buy a HDMI cable for $100 per meter. Same for speaker cable. It's usually Snake Oil BS.
applying audiophile standards to home theater is ridiculous, movies have totally artificial soundtracks. i just got a receiver with a complete set of pre outs,hooked up a bunch of amps, sounds great. The standards for my audio system are a lot higher
@@bendermac Right, but used equipment is not often readily available. Honestly I don't think it's an either/or answer. Get what fits your budget and is available at the time.
I think this guy lives in a dream world. I just stopped following his channel because you can tell he’s nothing more than a spoiled brat that thinks he’s a DJ too. I’ve seen enough of this guy.
I’m saving my spare change to go with a “ separates “ config for my dream theatre of Monolith processor, Monolith multi channel amps ( 2-7 channel) and two of their “15 inch subs. For me, arguably almost as good as the ultra high end stuff, but will I notice the difference? And does get me closer to a budget approach....
I think a good question to ask is. What are some Trinnov alternatives that don't cost the price of a brand new car. I've seen processors for 3k or the marantz 7706.. how good would that be vs a AVR?
Yes Reality VS Richie Rich , For Most, Just Always Saying!!!!!
My goal is separates but to afford a Processors and amps at the same time is not in the cards so I bought an AVR that will work and will continue to add quality amps one at a time until I can drive my 11 channels and then I will add a processor. This method also allows me to get the most advanced processor as that will be 3-5 years in the future
I feel like we jumped into bizarro world... 20k on amps? Budget of 30-40k? I mean come on....so un relatable to 99.98 percent of the free world.
I have separates, but this is a rich mans conversation here, you might as well throw some McIntosh equipment in to while we’re at it,🤣🤣🤣
@@supernovamoore6175 maybe some cables made from Angel's wings.
Exactly. I just bought a monolith 9 channel amp to pair with my Yamaha. That amp was 2200 after tax and shipping. Took alot out of me lol
@@MrJjburgess11 I'm sure it sounds excellent too.
40k just in amps and prepro, you don't have any speakers or a video system yet. so try closer to 60-100k. But I bet if you took their say 60K audio subsystem, speakers amps and processor, in the same room, swapped it out for a competent but reasonable alternative say 10-15k, similar frequency capabilities etc did a blind a/b on it, and took measurments, it would be better damn close, and measure even closer. Took 50 average people who don't do it for a living and don't know specific tonal characteristics of certain equipment, , I bet the verdict would be split which they prefer.
What a great video! Very helpful. Good words of wisdom!
Arcam processor and Arcam amps are expensive but not Trinnov expensive. One thing I totally agree is proper speaker positioning and some basic treatment is the most important aspect. Surround sound is implemented strictly to work with specific layouts and if positioning is off you won’t get best immersion you can.
My 17 thousand 💲 X9 is the most performance i could ever afford and it sounds amazing with my all Kef 9.2.4 Atoms set up 🍿🎬
What do you think about DENON AVC A110 vs Marantz AV8805HA + amp separates as they would cost same?
That was good stuff. Ok back to The Meg Atmos Style.....
Trinnov is spare change for me; what should I buy?
He says not to use bad speakers would you say Elac Debut speakers are considered bad? I got f6 towers and bookshelves
Those are fine.
Well said
I want to upgrade my Marantz 7012 and MM7055 power amp combo , not not sure were to look 3500 to 4000
Discounts to Patreon subscribers.
Champagne on a beer budget. 🇿🇦
Why even mention turnov $24k regular people use emotiva or monolith
So people who aren’t “normal” don’t matter?
The best AV processor "separates" are Denon's AVR's. The X8500H has better DAC/preamp performance than any dedicated AV processor out there besides the Trinnov. It just happens to have amplifiers in it as well (that are themselves quite good).
Unless you're going to get a Trinnov, your best bet is to get a Denon and use really good amplifiers where you want them.
There are many preamps that have better DACs and a far better room correction system than the 8500h.
@@erod9088 Like the guy in the video said, I'd rather do my room correction in the room itself. The processor or AVR can be used for EQ (31 band preferred but 10 or 11 bands is better than nothing) and speaker distance. If your room is good you really don't need more "correction" than that.
@@erod9088 Such as?
@@erod9088 measurably better? yeah, to the point of it mattering with human hearing, and to overcome room and speaker interaction? eh not so much. Once you're at good enough, where you aren't getting distortion or noise in the audible range, who cares if it goes better?
At :54 seconds I heard a 👻.
Separates if you can afford it.
Personal preference I guess, but i'd rather have a mediocre or average atmos system, then a peak performing 5.1. I think as a whole you'll have a more enjoyable, greater difference of experience with that, especially if you've had 5.1 before. it adds a new dimension of sound (no pun intended) and it really doesn't take that much to make Atmos good enough, you don't really need or benefit from large, full range ceiling speakers all that much over some basic in ceiling or bookshelf style, and yet it gives you that new experience. I'd rather shave $1000 (or in the products these guys often deal with, several thousand) off my lcr's whether speakers or amps, and get a nice .4, and loose a little bit of output, or design from the mains, maybe a veneer instead of high gloss or solid wood. Certainly wouldn't put it in to cables vs extra channels. The main thing I agree with is room treatment, that can turn a poorly performing system into a decent one without too much expense. I just don't really see the point in a Trinov unless you have 15 or more channels, and/or a challenging room with less then optimal speaker placement. Even if you can hear that extra little bit of channel separation, is your budget really better served there then with better multiple subs, or hell maybe even a Lumagin scaler. If you got the money, splurge to your hearts content, but don't expect a movie changing experience, especially if you never experienced something of that caliber, you won't know what you are missing.
First? lol
The main reason to go separates route is to separate the amp from preamp. The amp section is high powered and causes inevitable distortions in pre amp. Using the preamp section of integrated amps does not really disable the amp section. Also, if you like your music or movies loud, your preamp will clip even if you don’t use the amp section. Also your integrated amp will heat up and go into overheat protection even if you only use preamp out. For all practical purposes, it is as if you really can’t turn off the amp section no matter what you do. Waste of energy, overheating and shorter life span of your equipment are major drawbacks.
Can't the amp section be disabled on most newer receivers? I can remember seeing a video recently about a Denon (I think) where these can be fully disabled if you are using the pre-outs.