Citation pilots grew used to comments about bird strikes into the rear tail, from behind. This accident broadens the exposure Cessnas have to tolerate.
Even if **everything** failed, even if the engine failed you don't land on top of another plane! Dump it in the grass or taxiway if there's traffic on the runway!
And don't land on top of a highway full of cars, like the recent example where there was a big flat field not far from road where the plane crashed into cross traffic and one car occupant was killed, if I recall correctly.
Aviate, Navigate, Collisionate. Check. Lol I saw the comments on the VAS video, and I do want to congratulate you on getting through this without dropping an F-bomb. Joking aside, I just wanted to thank you for confirming what I thought to be true about the aircraft's instruments, fuel, and electrical systems.
"There's Fools. there's Damn Fools..."...and then there's this guy. Toxicology report also please. Thanks again Juan, you showed admirable restraint. Regards as always.
Fascinating. Gorgeous VFR day. The only emergency from electrical failure ought to have been to his wallet. Many years ago I actually had a total electrical failure in an AA-1B, the item of instant panic I remember having was “what’s this going to cost”.
Juan, thank you for going above and beyond with what you do here I really appreciate the Grumman’s cockpit walk through to kind of explain how things operate and actually showing hands on the instruments and components.. I am not a pilot but I am very interested in aviation love what you do here keep the great content coming…
Reminds me of my early soloing in a 150. Didn’t secure the oil dipstick fully, and upon takeoff, the windscreen got Covered in oil. Panicked, and abruptly returned to the airport and landed without contacting the tower. Low timers, make mistakes.
When I did my night cross country flight with my instructor he simulated a total electrical failure. I had to land with no instrument lights, no flaps and no landing light at night. He didn’t let me use my flashlight. It was a great lesson that proved the airplane and me could still fly with a total electrical failure, even at night.
I'm constantly bewildered by the willingness of pilots to put other people in mortal danger to get themselves out of a situation they alone caused. Why didn't he land on the grass?
I’m a reflection of the current state of PPL training. My CFI made sure I understood that the mags are separate from the electrical system that runs the radios, lights etc. Losing the electrical system is not a big deal in that situation. The engine will be working fine off the mags. “Land as soon as practical” does not mean panic and run into another plane.
land as soon as practical does not even apply here. how about have some fun without having to listen to all the dimwits on the radio and go fly around for a while. my luscombe does not even have a battery or an electrical system. has he not ever seen an airplane like it? if i forget my handheld or the alkaline batteries are dead when i get to the airport do you think i don't go fly anyway? actually it is quite a nice change to not listen to all the ridiculous BS on the radio. i always turn it off anyway after i get away from the airport. CFI's today place way too much importance on the radio anyway which is part of the reason why things like this happen. they would cancel a flight lesson if the radio didn't work! they should have at least one lesson with the radio turned off just to reaffirm to the student that this situation is a cause for celebration and not panic!
Once where I worked as a mechanic our flight instructor was bringing home a C-182 and lost all electrical at night in marginal VFR, he made in ok, that was the good part. The bad part was he had a run away alternator, which the overvoltage shut down. But without tunning off anything electrical, he kept resting the master switch until he wrecked everything electrical on the plane. All the lights, the whole avionics stack, everything. Where he should have turned everything off, tried resetting once, and then gone on battery power with just essential items.
At Lufthansa (GYR) we required our students to fly the pattern and land at night without landing lights or any instruments (including air speed) before night solo lesson in F33s.
03:26 Funny effect: After flying plane with stick controls and then switching to Cessna with Yoke, as soon as I was rolling on the ground and holding Yoke with both hands, I automatically started to use it as a steering wheel. I had to "ban" my right hand from the yoke forever to get rid of this :)
@@brucecuratola6389 Given that the Cessna landed almost at the end of the runway, flying over him would have made a lot of sense. Landing 1000 ft down the runway would still give you enough time to stop and probably enough remaining length to take off again.
@@josephoberlander NO! It was NOT an emergency and NO NEED to get on the ground that fast. Just fly a normal traffic pattern with NORMAL SPACING and make a normal landing (albeit without flaps). You would not need to be that dangerously close to another airplane in that phase of flight just because the electrical system is out.
Many years ago. I was in the VFR corridor right over PHX international, when the last electrons from the battery were depleted. Told my wife ( copilot) to hold lsst heading and altitude while i fished put my handheald. We finished our flight to Sedona without further incident. No electrical, no, problem. PS copilot heald altitude to 50 ft and heading to +/- 1 deg. Great gal.
He wrecked 2 aircraft, and clearly demonstrated he is unfit to fly. I do hope his license is pulled and he is required to take some extensive training if he to ever fly again! I might sound like I'm being harsh, but I'm a student pilot, getting ready for my final check ride. Despite my low time, I know full well how to fly NORDO.
@PRH123 Just stop. Not everyone deserves a participation trophy, and not everyone deserves to fly. Some people simply should not. Grow up and be willing to admit when someone does not have the skillset to perform the action they want to perform.
@@Johnfisher12345 well John, perhaps we’ll all one day grow up as you have, i suppose that Yeager, Lindbergh and the wrights should never have been allowed near a plane again after crashing, eh? Eh?
Juan I have flown many aircraft with NO, electrical systems at all. My 65 hp Luscombe had no generator. I had a hand radio for communication. A sectional chart and magnetic compass for navigation. It was just fine for day VFR!
Thanks Juan for the two videos. Im doing my helicopter training right now and it's been good reviewing new systems and why its important for pilots to understand them. The Robinson POH at the beginning of the Emergency section defines "Lands as soon as Practical" versus "Land Immediately." Good to know the difference between the two.
When I was a young new pilot, it was once my plan to shut off the electrical system while flying to save money. Until I learned that the Hobbs meter would just keep running!
Greatest respects to Juan, started following you when you were flying your older V tail. After 47 years of flying various types, I’ll never stop being amazed by many of the accidents. First on my list are the fuel exhaustion accidents, closely followed by flight into IFR by VFR pilots. However, this one just might top the list. “Go Around” is the most under used, misused and problematic issue that I’ve seen over the years. Whether it be other traffic, unstabilized approaches or crosswind complications the collection of pilots that have not employed the go around procedure seems to grow each year. Thanks Juan for your continuous contributions, even old dudes like myself learn something with each video. This video prompts me to install a rear view mirror in my M35, my tail feathers aren’t so easy to replace.
I actually had a total electrical failure about two weeks ago in a cessna 152 being a 50h PPL in controlled airspace under Lisbon's TMA in Portugal. And yeah it was a little jarring, but the plane was still flying, and I actually was able to call my my AD operations office with my cellphone to inform of my prediction. For a reasonably trained pilot, there is no excuse for crashing over someone else.
I can only imagine what the Cessna pilot thought when he heard the pilot's reasoning! Because mine would have been, "Are F'n kidding me?!" But there is one thing that can be learned. I had a complete alternator failure at night. It was no big deal like you said. However, I always carry two flashlights and one "lip stick" flashlight secured to my headset that uses one AA battery and one red LED. And a glow in the dark battery caddie. Just in case of complete black out. But even more important is the back up hand held radio, which I always carry because of the possibility of radio failure in IMC and trying to remember all the expectations on how to conduct that, but also to turn the lights on at the airport! After shutting down all the extra draws on the battery I had enough power to turn the lights on and get the gear down. But a little forethought and maybe a little paranoia about being like this guy makes me want to have as many back ups as practicable. We don't know what we don't know and that makes this channel so important.
Being able to control the airport lights can be very important. In a summer-hazy night in the South, finding the runways at an unfamiliar field can be a problem.
I wish I could watch these with a professional disinterest but I can’t. Everyone of these idiots who run out of fuel, fly VMC into IMC, and or pull absolutely asinine tricks like this directly affect me since my insurance rate is adjusted based on the number of payouts for their stupidity (as well as legitimate accidents). No excuse for an idiot like being allowed to get behind the yoke.
Insurance absolutely needs to cover the liability for the airplane he hit, but I at least hope they deny any sort of claim against hull insurance he might have on his own plane. Complete negligence.
There’s no point in the insurance system if someone isn’t using it from time to time. Anyway, in the case of vmc into IMC and resulting damage, there’s no one left to make a claim.
This one was in a league of his own. - I can see legitimate ways in which one can run out of fuel. Perhaps after diverting to one or two different airports in worse-than-forecast rapidly changing weather, and/or a crash happening before you land on the only runway at an alternate airport after one or two diversions. Or getting trapped on top of an unexpected cloud layer - *Inadvertent* VMC into IMC happens far too often, thankfully often without causing an accident. Weather can sneak up on you. - I cannot fathom a single reason why this accident could not be avoided. Not only by the incompetent pilot, but also the passengers. If I had been sitting in the right front seat I would've been calling for a go-around for at least half a minute before the incident. I would have taken control if necessary. What's the point of having a yoke and throttle right in front of you if you're not gonna use it when an idiot is clearly flying you straight into the back of another plane?
Talk about reversion to old habits: I was once a passenger in a car with a Trislander pilot when some idiot ran a red light and we nearly T-boned him. Pilot/driver yanked the steering wheel back so hard he put a bend in it.
Once panic sets in it is usually almost impossible to recover. The takeaway here is for all pilots to train to try to avoid it but some will fail. My dad used to talk about when soldiers would panic during World War II. They had all been through the training but some would still panic and if it got bad enough most would panic. The truth is a lot of the people expressing their disdain for the Grumman pilot might also panic under similar circumstances. Arrogance is a big problem too.
A couple of years ago my plane's alternator packed up in flight. After the initial WTF?! I ran the checklist, no joy, considered my options. Since it was day VFR in uncontrolled airspace "reduce electrical load" meant turning off the master. On approach I turned the master on so I could use the radio, declared PAN PAN to give ATC heads up that the plane wasn't totally healthy and landed without further incident. A couple of days later the shop found a broken wire in the alternator wiring.
The comment about reverting to driving "learned long before flying" made me laugh. I taught my younger sister to drive when she was 19, and she started learning to fly when she was 14 😂
Returning home after a flying lesson, I approached the turn in the road (cut through a hill, so rock walls), speed 65, left rudder and bank left....the stick didn't move. I looked down then realized I was holding the gear lever. And my foot was on the clutch. I hit the brakes in time to avoid crashing. And after that, every time I got back in my car after flying I did a short familiarization to ensure it never happened again.
@@j_taylor In college I took a sailing class. It was in the harbor of Newport Beach, CA, in the fall. Sure enough, one day we had Santa Ana winds, which make things pretty wild. They can be gusty, quiet one moment, howling the next, changing directions, etc. The instructors took us out, instead of letting us go on our own, because of the dangerous winds. It was a whole lot of fun, and we managed not to capsize our boat. When we got in her VW bug to go back to campus, the gal driving was obviously still under the influence of sailing. Whee! Until she brought herself under control.
Always very important to get the facts accurate if someone is going to scrutinize anyone's actions especially when that person is not on the NTSB investigation team.
Legal, current, proficient. Juan you get the simulator fairly often to do those emergency procedures. For a lot of VFR weekend warriors a BFR isn't frequent enough. Don't what to regulate more often because long list of negatives, BUT every pilot should find another safety pilot and go through a simulated emergency on a burger run, and swap seats for the next burger run. Makes both of you better. Reluctance? Remember he is in the pattern with you.
Does this guy have his pilot certificate? The lack of flying aptitude reminds me of the student pilot who took his wife on an ultimately fatal trip a few weeks back.
@@Turd_Furgeson The guy in the Cessna didn't need to get out of the way. The guy in the AA5 needed to fly his aeroplane properly, execute a go-around, and not panic like he did.
@@Turd_Furgeson The AA% was not 'without power', it merely had an electrical failure which in no way affected its ability to go-around. The guy in the Cessna did nothing wrong.
Nice video. Minor point: Grummans do not have nosewheel steering, it's a castering nosewheel. Ground steering is via differential braking. Miss my old Tiger. RIP poor little Traveler.
I think anyone who is able to would benefit from taking a couple hours to take an introductory flight lesson. Learning to stay cool in situations you might not have complete control over is invaluable.
He didn’t even need to do that. He could have gone around again and made another attempt at landing. This was a colossally stupid decision by the Grumman pilot.
@@mattritchie3468 I guess in his mind he HAD to land. Given that, couldn't he land on the nice and flat grass? or off center line? I understand the panic. I don't understand the butt sniffing of the next plane. Had many option even under his bad judgement of the level of threat.
@@linuxophilegrass is really a deep ditch that rises sharply at the taxiways. If he had to land on the runway he could have overflown the Cessna and still had plenty of runway.
@@brucecuratola6389this is still a piss poor excuse. If it was truly an emergency, you land any where possible. They are just handing PPL to anyone now and it’s piss poor sad.
Really REALLY glad no one was in the back seat of the 172.That's some F-bombing scary S-bomb! Thanks, Juan, for another excellent report and your continuing commitment to aviation safety.
I sure hope the FAA repos the license (assuming there is one) of the guy at the controls of this Grumman. A pilot freaking out this badly over a (currently) non-critical problem is a danger to himself or others if allowed to continue flying.
As a pilot for over 25 years I’ve had learning experiences that could be on TH-cam for stupid mistakes I’ve done. The guy made a mistake and it could have been way worse. Cut the guy some slack. You don’t think the whole world telling you are a moron is bad enough 🤪😢
@@kennydings3879when his actions were so patently dangerous, no. Why should he be “cut some slack” for rear-ending another aircraft instead of going around?
@@kennydings3879 Not this time around. This guy demonstrated in multiple ways he has no clue how his airplane works or how to properly control it. I get it - Mistakes happen. Not knowing the engine will run fine with master power off? If the guy finished his PPL yesterday... Maybe I can give him a tiny bit of slack for being green and wet behind the ears - Go spend time with a CFI and mechanic learning the basics of how a piston aircraft operates. To not know how to control the plane on the ground, steer it off into the grass instead of into a Cessna? That's inexcusable stupidity and dangerous.
imagine the giant fireball if the fuel tanks ruptured and ignited. Probably most aircraft landing had minimum or low fuel probably at this likely uncontrolled airport.
You are probably correct at 02:40, another possibility is that he was so close that the wake turbulence from the Cessna was hitting his Grumman. I've flown about 1nm in trail of another Cessna from the Cessna I was flying in Class C and it looks similar, just a thought, great video!
I just got my PPL. During my training - at 33 hours, I was doing a dual lesson. In the training area the alternator failed. So although it was not a loss of electrical power, it was still possible - given the flight time back to the aerodrome. Even at this point in my training I knew that I would lose radio, transponder and flaps. But the plane would keep flying, as long as we had gas. My instructor offered to take the plane, but my plan was 'I will watch the volts and do a radio call if it looks like we are going to lose power. I will do a flaps up landing, and I am happy to continue to fly even if we lose electrical power' Flaps up was zero risk, as my home airport is 4,630ft of runway. Although I had an instructor with me and not a complete power failure - that technical knowledge of how the engine worked and the flaps I understood well. So I would have come up with the same plan, even if I was doing a solo flight. The flight back and landing was uneventful, just another flaps up landing practice. At that stage my landings not consistent - so I definitely had go around as an option in my head.
Thank you so much for these great videos. As a Diamond DA40 TDI pilot, I would like to point out that an electrical failure in the DA40 is a much greater problem. Your Engine will quit in case of an electrical failure as soon as the ECU backup battery dies. So in that aircraft an electrical failure is a land immediately, prepare for engine failure event. Not all small aircraft are equal when it comes to electrical failure.
Limas were American AA5 Travelers. N5450L would be the same vintage as N5409L I did most of my basic flight training in. I finished out in a new Grumman N9911U, an AA5A Cheetah with Uniform being a common code for Grummans of that Vintage.
❤ thanks Juan when I first saw this accident on TV I thought oh how long is it going to take you to come on the air and just dish this pilot you did a great job explaining what happened and what occurred in the pilot's mind keep up the great work you've got to be the best aeronautical TH-cam channel around I hope people keep subscribing
I experienced a total electrical failure during my first solo x-country flight. Although I was a bit nervous, I never panicked and I flew all the way back to my home airport, carefully avoiding controlled airspace. Almost a non event.
Small note, that's a Skylane (182) not a 172. This seems like a very low time pilot for sure. First time I saw the video I thought with the heavy control inputs on final and the hard right ailerons after landing that maybe it was a heavy crosswind. But after watching it a few more times I think you're right, he was panicking on final and then reverting to driving instinct to try to turn the plane.
@@brucecuratola6389 Are you assuming the 60 year old that bought the plane in may was the one flying? In the original video the pilot at the end saying "My fault, my fault" didn't sound to me like mid-to-later life person. I could totally be wrong. If it is a person with 30 years flying experience, I think that makes this all the worse.
Target fixation! The control inputs on final MAY have been a clumsy attempt at S-turns to avoid overtaking the Cessna. (I was taught this technique, among others, more than 50 years ago.) If so, it was obviously too little, too late. So many other options available but not taken, starting with systems knowledge.
Yeah, the Tigers yoke only rolls about 70* to either side, he was making nearly max control inputs… which in a Tiger results in a very brisk roll rate.
It's amazing that this pilot thought to weave during the approach to delay the landing but didn't realize that the aircraft was flying fine and could have just gone around.
Half of the instruments he was worried about still had sticky notes over them, I am guessing from training, and that makes me wonder if he was a little to deep in the books on worse case scenarios and got panicked.
That was painful to watch. Grummans are great aircraft. I have about 500 hours in a Traveler and Lynx and wouldn’t own anything else. It’s sad to see one get wrecked. Give my thanks to Rick for having such a nice Tiger.
Hello Juan, thanks for the update. In the part II you said you steer the Grumman with the rudder pedals. IIRC, the Tiger is steered by differential braking on the ground. Like the Rockwell series of Commander. Keep up the great vids!
I just had my BFR last week and the instructor asked “would you need to perform a forced landing if you lose electricity power”. The answer was obviously no - but I’ll send her this video as apparently it’s not so obvious!!
@@flybobbie1449 Think about the age of most of the private owned airplanes. They are used for decades. So - depending on your age - you will most likely never see private EV planes "filling the skies".
@@Fastvoice I can step out of my flying school now, see and hear a electric prop under test. How long before that is in an aircraft? Few weeks ago saw a tilt rotor doing tax trials at Cotswold airport.
@@flybobbie1449 That whole development will last many years until certification and mass production. Some companies that tried it are already bankrupt. So it's a thorny path.
1:14 - Call me crazy, but there seems to be an awful lot of greenish/brownish surface on either side of the runway. I wonder whether, by any crazy chance, it might have been at all possible to land the airplane on one of those surfaces? Oh wait - the engine is still running...?
Sometime you have to vent when something stupid happens. But you do a great job on this channel, maybe in flight schools they should have them watch channels like yours as a requirement to pass . Just thinking. Keep up the great work Juan.
This is where thinking about and talking about failures before flight may come in handy. This way WHEN something fails, you are equipped mentally to deal with it. I do a daily EP before I fly which is where I recite the memory items for a random failure and then review the checklist. I also review the engine failure procedures before every flight just to make sure I am fresh. In this case, system knowledge would have been helpful for the pilot. Another helpful item would have been a handheld backup radio in his flight bag (just in case). He could have practiced some CRM and had his passenger dig it out, turn it on and tune the CTAF in so that he could declare an emergency and make some pattern calls. When will GA pilots start taking flying seriously? Every one of these accidents seems worse and more preventable than the last.
The correct thing to do would have been to initiate a climb to pattern altitude and turn to be offset from the runway but parallel to it on the opposite side of the pattern. I had to do this once when some idiot pulled right on the runway when I was on short final. Yea panic has no place in the cockpit. Thanks Juan 🙂
The Grumman has a fully castering nose wheel and a very tiny rudder. Below a certain speed the rudder has minimal effect and steering is done with differential braking. In the Part 1 video you can clearly hear the Grumman down and rolling on the mains moments before the impact. You mentioned the pilot instinctively steering with the yoke. You can't tell if he was also using the brakes in attempt to steer, but I would guess if he did the sound of tires screeching would have been audible. Had he mashed on one of the brakes there is a possibility he could have ground looped and prevented the collision. What a waste of two good aircraft.
You kept us suspended for the punchline. Thanks for part 2! Also, it would be nice to suggest corrective actions such as doing a go around? Landing parallel in a skip over maneuver?
Student pilot here. Correct procedure is fly the pattern normally; it's not a dire emergency. Second option is go around when you see yourself that close. Third best option is land in the grass or on the taxiway. Fourth best option is overfly the Cessna; plenty of runway left and even if you run off the end at least you didn't endanger the other aircraft. Don't make your emergency someone else's emergency. Fifth best option is land behind but use the pedals to go right since the hangers and parking are left so the Cessna will obviously turn left. Worst option is what this pilot chose: tailgate the other aircraft, land left of centerline, then veer left to guarantee a collision. Minor demerit for other pilot on CTAF that warned the Cessna: no way he understands what's happening and can process that insanity. Nor will he know what to do or which way to turn. Instead call out CESSNA GO AROUND. Decent chance he pushes full power and manages to fly alway before impact. That's nit-picking though. Hard to think of that even as a pilot watching from afar because it's just so insane to deliberately land on top of another airplane with a working engine. When something so unexpected starts happening it's difficult for anyone to react.
You don't even need the airspeed indicator. After a little experience, a pilot can estimate angle of attack. I've lost a pitot-static system twice, and the results were fine.
Excellent Re-cap Juan! Perhaps you should ring him out a bit on No flap landings and slips? With the hi cost of training now, are instructors not training pilots on no-flap instructors, proper approach angle and slips? My old CFI was a former Air Force Academy instructor, and he hardly ever let me do a normal landing. We were always landing in some challenging or configuration, and typically on some cross-wind or down wind runway, a few times where there was no cross wind runway he had me landing on a short narrow taxiway. Seemed like hell at the time but but was a blessing. Easy to miss a charging system failure in flight until you have no power. And I like to have a volt meter with a low voltage alert light. They are not much money and might safe your life when flying IFR. Also, a standby battery is a good thing to have either installed or one you can plug into a cigarette lighter. On a turbo Mooney that kept cooking alternators I had my A.I. do a 337 for a plug in port on the panel, with a circuit breaker where I could pack with a couple of 10amp hour gel cell Lead acid batteries in a case, and used it a couple of times. Now with lightweight, powerful, cheap and safe LFP (Lithium Iron Phosphate) batteries having a plug-in pack seems like something to consider.
In the early 80s I picked up a new Piper Archer at the factory in VRB for delivery to the dealer at FUL. It turned out to be the ferry flight from hell. I had to do two precautionary landings along the way and wait for repairs: one for an alternator noise condenser that had broken off it's mount and was banging around, held only by its wire; the other for an oil leak. Both of these things were repaired under warranty. The final straw happened about 50 miles from PSP, when the alternator failed. It was VMC, so I turned off the master switch until closer to PSP. Then, I turned it on, called PSP tower, declared Pan-Pan, and advised them the radio may fail. Fortunately, the battery kept the radios working until I parked in front of the Piper Dealer.
I’m trying to make an intelligent comment, and everything has already been said. 😂 smartest bunch on the internet! Never disappointed in the blancolirio community.
Great assessment! I think the "yanking and banking" was the pilot trying to make s-turns to create some additional distance, although it wasn't very effective.
One of the most outrageous inexcusable airplane accidents I’ve ever seen! No excuse. This pilot should have his certificate revoked for reckless disregard of human life and safety. A hazard to the flying public.
@@herpetologywithjon So you waggle the wings and buzz the tower???? to attract their attention.. Or is there a recognised "square pattern" to fly to convey "I have no radio...flash your little light at me"?
The light signals are a one way communication method, the tower gives a standard set of light signals with basically multi colored flashlights and the pilot reacts. In terms of what makes them start using them, if you are lucky you are able to communicate that your electronics are failing, maybe with the radio or transponder before they go. This has happened to me before, electronics were failing, I realized what was occurring and with the last few seconds of power I used the transponder to communicate that I had no radio. After that to approach the airport, wait for a light signal, and follow instructions. Otherwise, if you have no chance to communicate before things fail, you may just have to circle within view of the tower and wait for them to realize that something is wrong.
The collision appears to have been closer to a t-bone than a tail-ender. A rear passenger still would not have been in good shape but maceration may not have been his problem.
Part I here th-cam.com/video/sghoFyxvG8o/w-d-xo.html my mistake in the final edit, this should have all been together.
Kamaka 689 crashed a few hours ago in Hawaii
You could make a mini-series based on this ridiculous situation 🤣
For your incredible reporting, you deserve the views from a two-part story. I feel blessed for getting two videos from Juan in one day.
We all know you were just editing out the F-bombs. 😂😂
Sure it wasn't because of an accidental "f" bomb drop?
Ran to Part II faster than the Grumman into the Cessna
😂
Well played, sir…well played
I have nothing to add. 😂
😂 same here
That's a groaner...
Cessna are now marketting retrofit rear view mirrors marked "the Grumman in your rearview is closer than you think".
Citation pilots grew used to comments about bird strikes into the rear tail, from behind. This accident broadens the exposure Cessnas have to tolerate.
Well played!
The new instruction mantra is "watch your six on short final, Grumman comin'"
Where did the 20mm Gatling guns from the B-52H models get to??
The biggest failure in this situation wasn't electrical. It was mental.
Could that "excessive control inputs" have been the guy employing a slip to lose airspeed? Kind of looks like he was trying to slip.
Yoke actuator failed after the voltage dropped. 😂
@@somealias-zs1bw Well, it was a pretty big slip. 😛
Definitely looked like an aggressive and futile attempt to bleed off enough airspeed to avoid an impending collision.
1000%
You are having a bad day if your airplane makes it on to the Blancolirio Channel.
"You get 15 free minutes of fame, and you get 15 free minutes of fame, and you get 15 free minutes of fame!"
Hahaha, that's what comes to my mind when I go flying 😅
Being in Part 1 is fine - it's the Part 2 that makes the day bad. :D
Or doing S turns, or a 360, or a go around. Just terrible ADM all around.
This has always been in my mind, if you make it into Juan’s channel you certainly will be crowned an idiot.
Just last week when that T-bird got clipped, we were wondering how someone was going to top that,
Yeeaaahhhh......were gonna need everyone to stop topping each other......Mkkaayyy!
Juan needed to take a nice deep breath before spitting some wisdom in Part 2
Imagine crashing into another plane unnecessarily and then getting your nerve roasted on blancolirio
Even if **everything** failed, even if the engine failed you don't land on top of another plane! Dump it in the grass or taxiway if there's traffic on the runway!
And don't land on top of a highway full of cars, like the recent example where there was a big flat field not far from road where the plane crashed into cross traffic and one car occupant was killed, if I recall correctly.
Aviate, Navigate, Collisionate.
Check.
Lol I saw the comments on the VAS video, and I do want to congratulate you on getting through this without dropping an F-bomb.
Joking aside, I just wanted to thank you for confirming what I thought to be true about the aircraft's instruments, fuel, and electrical systems.
Controlled Flight Into Tail
@@rockets4kids Dude, he put it right on the numbers! I mean, it was the other aircraft's tail numbers, but it was right on the numbers!!!
"There's Fools. there's Damn Fools..."...and then there's this guy. Toxicology report also please.
Thanks again Juan, you showed admirable restraint. Regards as always.
Fascinating. Gorgeous VFR day. The only emergency from electrical failure ought to have been to his wallet. Many years ago I actually had a total electrical failure in an AA-1B, the item of instant panic I remember having was “what’s this going to cost”.
Juan, thank you for going above and beyond with what you do here I really appreciate the Grumman’s cockpit walk through to kind of explain how things operate and actually showing hands on the instruments and components.. I am not a pilot but I am very interested in aviation love what you do here keep the great content coming…
That was about as botched up as it could get. I hope this pilot considers a new hobby.
I think the FAA will agree.
@@dont6441Doubtful. They will offer a training program and perhaps a 709. If he wants to, the pilot will recover from this and continue to fly.
Reminds me of my early soloing in a 150. Didn’t secure the oil dipstick fully, and upon takeoff, the windscreen got Covered in oil. Panicked, and abruptly returned to the airport and landed without contacting the tower. Low timers, make mistakes.
Try topping off the oil in a cold engine, as I learned never to do in a E225 Bonanza. Oil everywhere and smoke akin to an air show airplane.
When I did my night cross country flight with my instructor he simulated a total electrical failure. I had to land with no instrument lights, no flaps and no landing light at night. He didn’t let me use my flashlight. It was a great lesson that proved the airplane and me could still fly with a total electrical failure, even at night.
Excellent instructor! Run the scenario so you know you can do it, less panic if it happens for real.
@@ajs1691 yup. It was a great lesson.
Grumman Pilot: My bad.
Cessna Pilot: No worries. Thanks for buying that new King Air I've had my eye on!
I'm constantly bewildered by the willingness of pilots to put other people in mortal danger to get themselves out of a situation they alone caused. Why didn't he land on the grass?
For the same reason he didn't go around.
@samhoskins8706 clearly not thinking WWJD " what would Juan Do"
...or S-Turn or Slip or go around or ground-loop or ANYTHING instead of just ramming another airplane.
@@patrickjames1080😂😂😂🥂
As Paul Harvey would say….”now you know the rest of the story”
Thanks Juan for part ll
Nicely done. I miss that man.
"Paul Harvey...good day!"
Now you're really showing your age, olde flyboys....
@@jamesonpace726 Yup, knowledge is power, old or no.
I’m glad you continued this. I was real confused at the end of part one.
I’m a reflection of the current state of PPL training. My CFI made sure I understood that the mags are separate from the electrical system that runs the radios, lights etc. Losing the electrical system is not a big deal in that situation. The engine will be working fine off the mags. “Land as soon as practical” does not mean panic and run into another plane.
land as soon as practical does not even apply here. how about have some fun without having to listen to all the dimwits on the radio and go fly around for a while. my luscombe does not even have a battery or an electrical system. has he not ever seen an airplane like it? if i forget my handheld or the alkaline batteries are dead when i get to the airport do you think i don't go fly anyway? actually it is quite a nice change to not listen to all the ridiculous BS on the radio. i always turn it off anyway after i get away from the airport. CFI's today place way too much importance on the radio anyway which is part of the reason why things like this happen. they would cancel a flight lesson if the radio didn't work! they should have at least one lesson with the radio turned off just to reaffirm to the student that this situation is a cause for celebration and not panic!
Once where I worked as a mechanic our flight instructor was bringing home a C-182 and lost all electrical at night in marginal VFR, he made in ok, that was the good part. The bad part was he had a run away alternator, which the overvoltage shut down. But without tunning off anything electrical, he kept resting the master switch until he wrecked everything electrical on the plane. All the lights, the whole avionics stack, everything. Where he should have turned everything off, tried resetting once, and then gone on battery power with just essential items.
re-setting
At Lufthansa (GYR) we required our students to fly the pattern and land at night without landing lights or any instruments (including air speed) before night solo lesson in F33s.
Right over my house - thanks
Sounds like a practical approach
03:26 Funny effect: After flying plane with stick controls and then switching to Cessna with Yoke, as soon as I was rolling on the ground and holding Yoke with both hands, I automatically started to use it as a steering wheel. I had to "ban" my right hand from the yoke forever to get rid of this :)
Crap, I drive left handed😂
@@Ksweetpea I'm right-handed but steer with my left hand. My right hand is for the gear shift and my coffee.
I used to have the same tendency transitioning from stick to yoke, but only on the ground for some reason.
The grass on either side of the runway looks good in any case. I flew for years with no electrical system, Cessna 140 to 450 Stearman.
Deep ditches either side. First, there’s spacing, then go around. Could have chosen the taxiway or landed further down the runway beyond the Cessna.
Both sides are pretty swampy, but given he crashed into another plane anyway at least the damage would have been limited to one aircraft.
The taxiway was wide open/clear!
@@brucecuratola6389 Given that the Cessna landed almost at the end of the runway, flying over him would have made a lot of sense. Landing 1000 ft down the runway would still give you enough time to stop and probably enough remaining length to take off again.
@@josephoberlander NO! It was NOT an emergency and NO NEED to get on the ground that fast. Just fly a normal traffic pattern with NORMAL SPACING and make a normal landing (albeit without flaps). You would not need to be that dangerously close to another airplane in that phase of flight just because the electrical system is out.
Many years ago. I was in the VFR corridor right over PHX international, when the last electrons from the battery were depleted. Told my wife ( copilot) to hold lsst heading and altitude while i fished put my handheald. We finished our flight to Sedona without further incident. No electrical, no, problem.
PS copilot heald altitude to 50 ft and heading to +/- 1 deg. Great gal.
There was a parallel taxiway and plenty of grass to stay clear of the Cessna if he thought it was a true emergency to get on the ground .
Nope, not at Pearland. There was a parallel taxiway
He wrecked 2 aircraft, and clearly demonstrated he is unfit to fly. I do hope his license is pulled and he is required to take some extensive training if he to ever fly again! I might sound like I'm being harsh, but I'm a student pilot, getting ready for my final check ride. Despite my low time, I know full well how to fly NORDO.
He will first have to pay off his debt.
Yeah I think you're right. It's harsh but this pilot is not qualified to fly and he's a danger to himself and others.
Some humility might be in order, you’ll make a mistake some say. Perhaps his training wasn’t as focused in all areas as it should have been.
@PRH123 Just stop. Not everyone deserves a participation trophy, and not everyone deserves to fly. Some people simply should not. Grow up and be willing to admit when someone does not have the skillset to perform the action they want to perform.
@@Johnfisher12345 well John, perhaps we’ll all one day grow up as you have, i suppose that Yeager, Lindbergh and the wrights should never have been allowed near a plane again after crashing, eh? Eh?
Juan I have flown many aircraft with NO, electrical systems at all. My 65 hp Luscombe had no generator. I had a hand radio for communication. A sectional chart and magnetic compass for navigation. It was just fine for day VFR!
Thanks Juan for the two videos. Im doing my helicopter training right now and it's been good reviewing new systems and why its important for pilots to understand them. The Robinson POH at the beginning of the Emergency section defines "Lands as soon as Practical" versus "Land Immediately." Good to know the difference between the two.
When I was a young new pilot, it was once my plan to shut off the electrical system while flying to save money. Until I learned that the Hobbs meter would just keep running!
Greatest respects to Juan, started following you when you were flying your older V tail. After 47 years of flying various types, I’ll never stop being amazed by many of the accidents. First on my list are the fuel exhaustion accidents, closely followed by flight into IFR by VFR pilots. However, this one just might top the list. “Go Around” is the most under used, misused and problematic issue that I’ve seen over the years. Whether it be other traffic, unstabilized approaches or crosswind complications the collection of pilots that have not employed the go around procedure seems to grow each year.
Thanks Juan for your continuous contributions, even old dudes like myself learn something with each video. This video prompts me to install a rear view mirror in my M35, my tail feathers aren’t so easy to replace.
I actually had a total electrical failure about two weeks ago in a cessna 152 being a 50h PPL in controlled airspace under Lisbon's TMA in Portugal. And yeah it was a little jarring, but the plane was still flying, and I actually was able to call my my AD operations office with my cellphone to inform of my prediction. For a reasonably trained pilot, there is no excuse for crashing over someone else.
I can only imagine what the Cessna pilot thought when he heard the pilot's reasoning! Because mine would have been, "Are F'n kidding me?!" But there is one thing that can be learned. I had a complete alternator failure at night. It was no big deal like you said. However, I always carry two flashlights and one "lip stick" flashlight secured to my headset that uses one AA battery and one red LED. And a glow in the dark battery caddie. Just in case of complete black out.
But even more important is the back up hand held radio, which I always carry because of the possibility of radio failure in IMC and trying to remember all the expectations on how to conduct that, but also to turn the lights on at the airport! After shutting down all the extra draws on the battery I had enough power to turn the lights on and get the gear down. But a little forethought and maybe a little paranoia about being like this guy makes me want to have as many back ups as practicable. We don't know what we don't know and that makes this channel so important.
Being able to control the airport lights can be very important. In a summer-hazy night in the South, finding the runways at an unfamiliar field can be a problem.
I wish I could watch these with a professional disinterest but I can’t. Everyone of these idiots who run out of fuel, fly VMC into IMC, and or pull absolutely asinine tricks like this directly affect me since my insurance rate is adjusted based on the number of payouts for their stupidity (as well as legitimate accidents). No excuse for an idiot like being allowed to get behind the yoke.
Insurance absolutely needs to cover the liability for the airplane he hit, but I at least hope they deny any sort of claim against hull insurance he might have on his own plane. Complete negligence.
There’s no point in the insurance system if someone isn’t using it from time to time. Anyway, in the case of vmc into IMC and resulting damage, there’s no one left to make a claim.
@@PRH123 well, potentially on the ground there may be...
This one was in a league of his own.
- I can see legitimate ways in which one can run out of fuel. Perhaps after diverting to one or two different airports in worse-than-forecast rapidly changing weather, and/or a crash happening before you land on the only runway at an alternate airport after one or two diversions. Or getting trapped on top of an unexpected cloud layer
- *Inadvertent* VMC into IMC happens far too often, thankfully often without causing an accident. Weather can sneak up on you.
- I cannot fathom a single reason why this accident could not be avoided. Not only by the incompetent pilot, but also the passengers. If I had been sitting in the right front seat I would've been calling for a go-around for at least half a minute before the incident. I would have taken control if necessary. What's the point of having a yoke and throttle right in front of you if you're not gonna use it when an idiot is clearly flying you straight into the back of another plane?
Talk about reversion to old habits: I was once a passenger in a car with a Trislander pilot when some idiot ran a red light and we nearly T-boned him. Pilot/driver yanked the steering wheel back so hard he put a bend in it.
Once panic sets in it is usually almost impossible to recover. The takeaway here is for all pilots to train to try to avoid it but some will fail. My dad used to talk about when soldiers would panic during World War II. They had all been through the training but some would still panic and if it got bad enough most would panic. The truth is a lot of the people expressing their disdain for the Grumman pilot might also panic under similar circumstances. Arrogance is a big problem too.
A couple of years ago my plane's alternator packed up in flight. After the initial WTF?! I ran the checklist, no joy, considered my options. Since it was day VFR in uncontrolled airspace "reduce electrical load" meant turning off the master. On approach I turned the master on so I could use the radio, declared PAN PAN to give ATC heads up that the plane wasn't totally healthy and landed without further incident.
A couple of days later the shop found a broken wire in the alternator wiring.
Nice job. No need to turn a mild annoyance into a potentially fatal series of intentional errors like this guy did.
The comment about reverting to driving "learned long before flying" made me laugh. I taught my younger sister to drive when she was 19, and she started learning to fly when she was 14 😂
Did she catch herself using her right foot on the accelerator when she wanted to turn right (using it like a rudder pedal)? 😊
Returning home after a flying lesson, I approached the turn in the road (cut through a hill, so rock walls), speed 65, left rudder and bank left....the stick didn't move.
I looked down then realized I was holding the gear lever. And my foot was on the clutch.
I hit the brakes in time to avoid crashing. And after that, every time I got back in my car after flying I did a short familiarization to ensure it never happened again.
@@j_taylor Wow that was serious! Glad you switched back to car mode in time.
-> Opens GPS app & looks for navigation preference "Avoid Flying Schools"
@@big_beak😂😂😂
@@j_taylor In college I took a sailing class. It was in the harbor of Newport Beach, CA, in the fall. Sure enough, one day we had Santa Ana winds, which make things pretty wild. They can be gusty, quiet one moment, howling the next, changing directions, etc. The instructors took us out, instead of letting us go on our own, because of the dangerous winds. It was a whole lot of fun, and we managed not to capsize our boat.
When we got in her VW bug to go back to campus, the gal driving was obviously still under the influence of sailing. Whee! Until she brought herself under control.
The aircraft in front was a C182, evidenced by the three blade prop and verified upon checking the registration for N127SL
@imtheredood figured that out just by the baggage door..rear window..cowl flaps and three blade prop
Always very important to get the facts accurate if someone is going to scrutinize anyone's actions especially when that person is not on the NTSB investigation team.
Legal, current, proficient. Juan you get the simulator fairly often to do those emergency procedures. For a lot of VFR weekend warriors a BFR isn't frequent enough. Don't what to regulate more often because long list of negatives, BUT every pilot should find another safety pilot and go through a simulated emergency on a burger run, and swap seats for the next burger run. Makes both of you better. Reluctance? Remember he is in the pattern with you.
Only correction: looks like a Skylane, not a Skyhawk. No difference in outcomes except the total repair/replacement bill!
Thanks for Part II!
“Do not panic … ” That should be a life lesson learned very early in any career or situation. Panic only makes ANY situation worse.
Does this guy have his pilot certificate? The lack of flying aptitude reminds me of the student pilot who took his wife on an ultimately fatal trip a few weeks back.
This is why I have never flown without a handheld radio. The costs are relatively low and you can announce emergencies.
True, but not relevant to this bit of aviation stupidity. He should have just gone around.
@gzk6nk had he told traffic on a portable radio he was without power maybe the guy in the Cessna gets out of the way
@@Turd_Furgeson The guy in the Cessna didn't need to get out of the way. The guy in the AA5 needed to fly his aeroplane properly, execute a go-around, and not panic like he did.
@@Turd_Furgeson The AA% was not 'without power', it merely had an electrical failure which in no way affected its ability to go-around. The guy in the Cessna did nothing wrong.
@Turd_Furgeson That’s not how it works with non-emergencies like this. This guy’s inability to control himself is NOT an emergency.
Nice video.
Minor point: Grummans do not have nosewheel steering, it's a castering nosewheel. Ground steering is via differential braking. Miss my old Tiger.
RIP poor little Traveler.
I think anyone who is able to would benefit from taking a couple hours to take an introductory flight lesson. Learning to stay cool in situations you might not have complete control over is invaluable.
Talk about a cliff hanger!! You had us all scratching our heads over this one
Yea! This guy couldn't get off that easy... Thanks for part 2!
Thanks, Juan. So, I'm assuming that this dude was just so freaked out that he just didn't consider landing beside the runway.
He didn’t even need to do that. He could have gone around again and made another attempt at landing. This was a colossally stupid decision by the Grumman pilot.
@@mattritchie3468 I guess in his mind he HAD to land. Given that, couldn't he land on the nice and flat grass? or off center line? I understand the panic. I don't understand the butt sniffing of the next plane. Had many option even under his bad judgement of the level of threat.
@@linuxophilegrass is really a deep ditch that rises sharply at the taxiways. If he had to land on the runway he could have overflown the Cessna and still had plenty of runway.
@@brucecuratola6389this is still a piss poor excuse. If it was truly an emergency, you land any where possible. They are just handing PPL to anyone now and it’s piss poor sad.
He didn't consider a lot of things.
Really REALLY glad no one was in the back seat of the 172.That's some F-bombing scary S-bomb! Thanks, Juan, for another excellent report and your continuing commitment to aviation safety.
182. It has cowl flaps
@@nsps1Thx for the correction.
I sure hope the FAA repos the license (assuming there is one) of the guy at the controls of this Grumman. A pilot freaking out this badly over a (currently) non-critical problem is a danger to himself or others if allowed to continue flying.
As a pilot for over 25 years I’ve had learning experiences that could be on TH-cam for stupid mistakes I’ve done. The guy made a mistake and it could have been way worse. Cut the guy some slack. You don’t think the whole world telling you are a moron is bad enough 🤪😢
@@kennydings3879nah. Mistakes are when you put your own property and hide at risk. Incompetence and negligence when you endanger others.
@@kennydings3879when his actions were so patently dangerous, no. Why should he be “cut some slack” for rear-ending another aircraft instead of going around?
@kennydings3879 No, not when it could have led to a loss of life.
@@kennydings3879 Not this time around. This guy demonstrated in multiple ways he has no clue how his airplane works or how to properly control it. I get it - Mistakes happen. Not knowing the engine will run fine with master power off? If the guy finished his PPL yesterday... Maybe I can give him a tiny bit of slack for being green and wet behind the ears - Go spend time with a CFI and mechanic learning the basics of how a piston aircraft operates. To not know how to control the plane on the ground, steer it off into the grass instead of into a Cessna? That's inexcusable stupidity and dangerous.
Even if it was on fire, just land in the grass beside the runway, don’t plow into the plane in front of you.
Really nice looking taxiways are always an option.
imagine the giant fireball if the fuel tanks ruptured and ignited. Probably most aircraft landing had minimum or low fuel probably at this likely uncontrolled airport.
It’s a giant flat field and he hits the one other aircraft. You fly where you look!
@@kburke1965 They teach you the same thing in advanced driving school. Don't look at the tree because you'll hit it.
Harrison Ford can attest to this.
You are probably correct at 02:40, another possibility is that he was so close that the wake turbulence from the Cessna was hitting his Grumman. I've flown about 1nm in trail of another Cessna from the Cessna I was flying in Class C and it looks similar, just a thought, great video!
I just got my PPL. During my training - at 33 hours, I was doing a dual lesson. In the training area the alternator failed.
So although it was not a loss of electrical power, it was still possible - given the flight time back to the aerodrome.
Even at this point in my training I knew that I would lose radio, transponder and flaps. But the plane would keep flying, as long as we had gas.
My instructor offered to take the plane, but my plan was 'I will watch the volts and do a radio call if it looks like we are going to lose power. I will do a flaps up landing, and I am happy to continue to fly even if we lose electrical power'
Flaps up was zero risk, as my home airport is 4,630ft of runway.
Although I had an instructor with me and not a complete power failure - that technical knowledge of how the engine worked and the flaps I understood well. So I would have come up with the same plan, even if I was doing a solo flight.
The flight back and landing was uneventful, just another flaps up landing practice. At that stage my landings not consistent - so I definitely had go around as an option in my head.
Congratulations on earning the private.
Thank you so much for these great videos. As a Diamond DA40 TDI pilot, I would like to point out that an electrical failure in the DA40 is a much greater problem. Your Engine will quit in case of an electrical failure as soon as the ECU backup battery dies. So in that aircraft an electrical failure is a land immediately, prepare for engine failure event. Not all small aircraft are equal when it comes to electrical failure.
Limas were American AA5 Travelers. N5450L would be the same vintage as N5409L I did most of my basic flight training in. I finished out in a new Grumman N9911U, an AA5A Cheetah with Uniform being a common code for Grummans of that Vintage.
❤ thanks Juan when I first saw this accident on TV I thought oh how long is it going to take you to come on the air and just dish this pilot you did a great job explaining what happened and what occurred in the pilot's mind keep up the great work you've got to be the best aeronautical TH-cam channel around I hope people keep subscribing
No one “rises to the occasion”. You fall to the level of your most proficient training.
Well worded.
When I was in flight training, my instructor always carried a hand held ICOM radio jic. He had it hooked to it's own external antenna.
I experienced a total electrical failure during my first solo x-country flight. Although I was a bit nervous, I never panicked and I flew all the way back to my home airport, carefully avoiding controlled airspace. Almost a non event.
Small note, that's a Skylane (182) not a 172. This seems like a very low time pilot for sure. First time I saw the video I thought with the heavy control inputs on final and the hard right ailerons after landing that maybe it was a heavy crosswind. But after watching it a few more times I think you're right, he was panicking on final and then reverting to driving instinct to try to turn the plane.
Pilot had PPC for nearly 30 years.
@@brucecuratola6389 Are you assuming the 60 year old that bought the plane in may was the one flying? In the original video the pilot at the end saying "My fault, my fault" didn't sound to me like mid-to-later life person. I could totally be wrong. If it is a person with 30 years flying experience, I think that makes this all the worse.
Target fixation! The control inputs on final MAY have been a clumsy attempt at S-turns to avoid overtaking the Cessna. (I was taught this technique, among others, more than 50 years ago.) If so, it was obviously too little, too late. So many other options available but not taken, starting with systems knowledge.
Yeah, the Tigers yoke only rolls about 70* to either side, he was making nearly max control inputs… which in a Tiger results in a very brisk roll rate.
I lost electrical with 8 hours experience (with instructor) in the pattern at KBFI. It was a great learning experience.
We were all waiting for this, Juan! Heard the audio on VAS earlier today and just... wow.
It's amazing that this pilot thought to weave during the approach to delay the landing but didn't realize that the aircraft was flying fine and could have just gone around.
Thx Juan for P 2...shot of whiskey and a little pause helps the undeniable frustration.
This accident was entirely avoidable.
Do we get a directors cut of part 1.5 with Juan letting loose with explicitives. Mark not for advertisers or kids
Half of the instruments he was worried about still had sticky notes over them, I am guessing from training, and that makes me wonder if he was a little to deep in the books on worse case scenarios and got panicked.
Instructor apparently missed the departure gate.
There it is!
That was painful to watch. Grummans are great aircraft. I have about 500 hours in a Traveler and Lynx and wouldn’t own anything else. It’s sad to see one get wrecked. Give my thanks to Rick for having such a nice Tiger.
Hello Juan, thanks for the update. In the part II you said you steer the Grumman with the rudder pedals. IIRC, the Tiger is steered by differential braking on the ground. Like the Rockwell series of Commander. Keep up the great vids!
The Grumman does have a castering nose wheel, but the Commander does not. It uses conventional nose wheel steering.
I just had my BFR last week and the instructor asked “would you need to perform a forced landing if you lose electricity power”. The answer was obviously no - but I’ll send her this video as apparently it’s not so obvious!!
Answer might change once EV aircraft start filling the skies.
@@flybobbie1449 Think about the age of most of the private owned airplanes. They are used for decades. So - depending on your age - you will most likely never see private EV planes "filling the skies".
@@Fastvoice I can step out of my flying school now, see and hear a electric prop under test. How long before that is in an aircraft? Few weeks ago saw a tilt rotor doing tax trials at Cotswold airport.
@@flybobbie1449 That whole development will last many years until certification and mass production. Some companies that tried it are already bankrupt. So it's a thorny path.
@@flybobbie1449 Do you mean electric prop pitch(constant speed prop)?
This is the stupiest piece of airmamship in human history. Definitely not a "could have happened to anyone" situation.
Oh, you renamed the first video. Now this all makes sense. Thank you. 😊
1:14 - Call me crazy, but there seems to be an awful lot of greenish/brownish surface on either side of the runway. I wonder whether, by any crazy chance, it might have been at all possible to land the airplane on one of those surfaces? Oh wait - the engine is still running...?
Even with a dead engine ho could’ve landed on the taxiway, as it seems pretty clear of obstacles and other aircrafts
@@lol_tr0l Turns out there are drainage ditches at the cross taxiways, the long taxiway would be best.
As always, people do not rise to the occasion, they default to their highest level of training. This sucks for everyone involved.
The person flying the camera did an even poorer job than the pilot.
This isn't a dig at Juans work ( that is exemplary ) but that 172 @4:48 with a three blade prop and cowl flaps sure looks like a 182
Correct, Cessna 182T Skylane, N127SL
Sometime you have to vent when something stupid happens. But you do a great job on this channel, maybe in flight schools they should have them watch channels like yours as a requirement to pass . Just thinking. Keep up the great work Juan.
This is where thinking about and talking about failures before flight may come in handy. This way WHEN something fails, you are equipped mentally to deal with it. I do a daily EP before I fly which is where I recite the memory items for a random failure and then review the checklist. I also review the engine failure procedures before every flight just to make sure I am fresh.
In this case, system knowledge would have been helpful for the pilot. Another helpful item would have been a handheld backup radio in his flight bag (just in case). He could have practiced some CRM and had his passenger dig it out, turn it on and tune the CTAF in so that he could declare an emergency and make some pattern calls.
When will GA pilots start taking flying seriously? Every one of these accidents seems worse and more preventable than the last.
Thanks, Juan!
Definitely worth watching part 1 first to get the background and then this part to see how far from optimal piloting this pilot was.
Thank you Mr. Browne for another awesome overview of a bad situation.
The correct thing to do would have been to initiate a climb to pattern altitude and turn to be offset from the runway but parallel to it on the opposite side of the pattern. I had to do this once when some idiot pulled right on the runway when I was on short final. Yea panic has no place in the cockpit. Thanks Juan 🙂
Insurance rates to the moon!
The Grumman has a fully castering nose wheel and a very tiny rudder. Below a certain speed the rudder has minimal effect and steering is done with differential braking. In the Part 1 video you can clearly hear the Grumman down and rolling on the mains moments before the impact. You mentioned the pilot instinctively steering with the yoke. You can't tell if he was also using the brakes in attempt to steer, but I would guess if he did the sound of tires screeching would have been audible. Had he mashed on one of the brakes there is a possibility he could have ground looped and prevented the collision. What a waste of two good aircraft.
You kept us suspended for the punchline.
Thanks for part 2!
Also, it would be nice to suggest corrective actions such as doing a go around? Landing parallel in a skip over maneuver?
Student pilot here. Correct procedure is fly the pattern normally; it's not a dire emergency.
Second option is go around when you see yourself that close.
Third best option is land in the grass or on the taxiway.
Fourth best option is overfly the Cessna; plenty of runway left and even if you run off the end at least you didn't endanger the other aircraft. Don't make your emergency someone else's emergency.
Fifth best option is land behind but use the pedals to go right since the hangers and parking are left so the Cessna will obviously turn left.
Worst option is what this pilot chose: tailgate the other aircraft, land left of centerline, then veer left to guarantee a collision.
Minor demerit for other pilot on CTAF that warned the Cessna: no way he understands what's happening and can process that insanity. Nor will he know what to do or which way to turn. Instead call out CESSNA GO AROUND. Decent chance he pushes full power and manages to fly alway before impact. That's nit-picking though. Hard to think of that even as a pilot watching from afar because it's just so insane to deliberately land on top of another airplane with a working engine. When something so unexpected starts happening it's difficult for anyone to react.
You don't even need the airspeed indicator. After a little experience, a pilot can estimate angle of attack. I've lost a pitot-static system twice, and the results were fine.
I just KNEW this video was going to end up on here. Always love hearing your perspective blanco.
Excellent Re-cap Juan! Perhaps you should ring him out a bit on No flap landings and slips?
With the hi cost of training now, are instructors not training pilots on no-flap instructors, proper approach angle and slips?
My old CFI was a former Air Force Academy instructor, and he hardly ever let me do a normal landing. We were always landing in some challenging or configuration, and typically on some cross-wind or down wind runway, a few times where there was no cross wind runway he had me landing on a short narrow taxiway. Seemed like hell at the time but but was a blessing.
Easy to miss a charging system failure in flight until you have no power. And I like to have a volt meter with a low voltage alert light. They are not much money and might safe your life when flying IFR.
Also, a standby battery is a good thing to have either installed or one you can plug into a cigarette lighter. On a turbo Mooney that kept cooking alternators I had my A.I. do a 337 for a plug in port on the panel, with a circuit breaker where I could pack with a couple of 10amp hour gel cell Lead acid batteries in a case, and used it a couple of times. Now with lightweight, powerful, cheap and safe LFP (Lithium Iron Phosphate) batteries having a plug-in pack seems like something to consider.
In the early 80s I picked up a new Piper Archer at the factory in VRB for delivery to the dealer at FUL. It turned out to be the ferry flight from hell. I had to do two precautionary landings along the way and wait for repairs: one for an alternator noise condenser that had broken off it's mount and was banging around, held only by its wire; the other for an oil leak. Both of these things were repaired under warranty. The final straw happened about 50 miles from PSP, when the alternator failed. It was VMC, so I turned off the master switch until closer to PSP. Then, I turned it on, called PSP tower, declared Pan-Pan, and advised them the radio may fail. Fortunately, the battery kept the radios working until I parked in front of the Piper Dealer.
He's a menace to everyone in the air...yes, birds, too.
I’m trying to make an intelligent comment, and everything has already been said. 😂 smartest bunch on the internet! Never disappointed in the blancolirio community.
Grumman “pilot” unfit and needs emergency suspension of privileges and a 709 ride followed by revocation. Flying is not for everyone.
Great assessment! I think the "yanking and banking" was the pilot trying to make s-turns to create some additional distance, although it wasn't very effective.
Hope the FAA does its job and keeps this clueless clown out of the air.
I mean, doing their job would have been preventing him from wrecking 2 planes in the first place.
@@redfoxtactical8425 one cannot legislate panic away.
And a perfectly good taxiway just to the left of the runway, tragically left unused.
Lucky he didn't spin in !
One of the most outrageous inexcusable airplane accidents I’ve ever seen! No excuse. This pilot should have his certificate revoked for reckless disregard of human life and safety. A hazard to the flying public.
As a non pilot could anybody explain how you’d use light signals to the tower when you have a total electrical shut down? 0:30
Google "control tower light signals"
Zippo lighter?
The control tower gives the light gun signals
@@herpetologywithjon
So you waggle the wings and buzz the tower???? to attract their attention..
Or is there a recognised "square pattern" to fly to convey "I have no radio...flash your little light at me"?
The light signals are a one way communication method, the tower gives a standard set of light signals with basically multi colored flashlights and the pilot reacts. In terms of what makes them start using them, if you are lucky you are able to communicate that your electronics are failing, maybe with the radio or transponder before they go. This has happened to me before, electronics were failing, I realized what was occurring and with the last few seconds of power I used the transponder to communicate that I had no radio. After that to approach the airport, wait for a light signal, and follow instructions. Otherwise, if you have no chance to communicate before things fail, you may just have to circle within view of the tower and wait for them to realize that something is wrong.
Big whoops. Lucky no one was in the rear of that Cessna.
The collision appears to have been closer to a t-bone than a tail-ender. A rear passenger still would not have been in good shape but maceration may not have been his problem.