For non-drone viewers, this is about drone flyers being able to take pictures and videos of landmarks and landscape in more built up areas, but still whilst staying high up. They should still remain around 50 metres above people to ensure privacy; drones' cameras are like mobile phones and people are just dots from that height. Until this announcement, this particular drone would have been permitted to fly in most areas; now it can't. But remember, drones have nothing like the zoom lenses that standard DSLR cameras have. It's not about invasion of privacy; 99.99% of drone flyers have zero interest in the tiny dots of people on the ground! And for the dronies, this means we miss out on a lot more freedoms than were originally planned. What's your thoughts? ** Remember to IGNORE any replies asking you to contact me on Telegram; scammers keep trying to get you to pay for postage for a prize that doesn't exist.**
This will split drone users and would be drone users into two groups 1. Those who will stick with sub 249g drones, 2. Those that will do what they like regardless of the rules
Group 2 is growing by the day:) as FPV drone pilot I really couldn't care less about these rules and use common sense (not flying in urban areas, not flying close to people , or near airports/harbors/jails)
One can understand why some people ignore rules when they seem unreasonable. One only has to go to any town/city to see that illegal electric scooters are more prevalent than the official trial scooters. It will be the same with drones. Many will not even get a free licence or mark the ID on their drone and there will be am uncontrolled free for all. Lets hope the Government and the CAA get themselves sorted - and soon.
Less than one percent of crimes are solved now -so do what you want I guess? Just don’t misgender someone accidentally; then you’ll get a Knock on the door.
I am an inspecting building surveyor and use drones for my work very successfully. I have a couple of sub 250g drones and a couple of heavier drones, one of which is a thermal drone. I work in congested areas much of the time. I went ahead and obtained A2 C of C and that has also been helpful. However, I was going to buy a Mavic 3 Classic, until now obviously. This appears to be another downside to our non-EU status I'm afraid, fishing was let down badly but that's another story. Feeling sorry for those who purchased the Mavic 3 Classic, I think we will see quite a few being returned/sold. I feel confused by CAA and let down slightly...I have no real faith in them unfortunately.
I purchased a Mavic 3 Classic and sold my Air2s literally because of the C1 marking. Their timing is impeccable and they are they completely unaccountable.
I'm getting a Mavic 3 regardless of this latest "edict" from "on high". I do similar to you and just get on with it. If I worried - I'd never go to work !
There's never a dull moment. Seems like the only route is to make the MINI series out of carbon fiber and up the camera to their Hasselblad line. Please include controllable f stops.
@@simonelliott5956 i think the sub 250g market isn't just for regulation purposes, it's also a great market for hikers/adventures/people who want to throw a drone in the bag and not really notice the size and weight, something smaller, lighter and with great IQ has universal appeal
Typical CAA frankly. Have had involvement with their regulatory incompetence over many, many years when it comes to General Aviation in the UK. Left hand not talking with the right one and total ignorance of ALL factors that need to be considered before stating a final decision. Thanks for the update here Ian.
@@timballam3675 Having spent a number of years working with govt departments, including the CAA and DfT, I am not sure not I agree. Whilst the DfT is the legislative body, and so must be seen to make the decisions, it is the CAA that will inform and advise. The DfT would be very unlikely to go against CAA recommendations.
Wow, so sorry to see what you're going through in the UK. I would be interested to hear what Philip Bloom has to say about all this, I'm sure he has a few choice words : O Here in Canada, with the Advanced Pilot license from Transport Canada, the minimum horizontal distance for none participants is 5 meters which illustrates how out of whack the CAA is with common wealth countries. Hoping they come to their senses sooner than later....
I think the reason drones are being regulated to the country side away from any people, buildings, points of interest in the UK is cultural. After reading comments, watching many Geek sessions, it's seems most if not all British agree flying over private property is a privacy violation. Even the drone enthusiasts, drone owners don't want drones over their own property. If this is how everyone feels you're not going to get to fly anywhere near people or property. I live in Southern California my city has passed laws allowing drones up to 55 lbs. Not that they can control the airspace. The local laws are really meant to inform the public don't bother calling the police if you see a drone, waist of resources. You can fly over private property but just not "directly" over people. You can cross roads fly along side roads but not over traffic, but directly over homes. Crash on a roof is not a huge safety issue. Most people understand your not looking at them, there dots. Real-estate companies hover directly over the neighbors homes to get shots of the home forsale. Our culture is here "laid back" for most, they don't freakout. People are interested in the potential of drones. About every construction sight has 3d mapping done weekly to show progress, those drones are computer flown over around all the properties next to the construction site. Nobody is screaming privacy, we're use to cameras everywhere. Drones are used by animal right activists to fly over private farms to document aninmal abuses. Our culture feels you have no privacy rights when in public view. Like the guy next door can look out his window into your backyard, no drone needed. Your culture would call that privacy invasion, looking out my window into your yard? Here you have no expectation of privacy in public. If you can be seen you are in public. Stan's naked in your front window, and scream privacy as childre pass. Lmao, Here cities and states have no control at all over the air space, from 1ft to space is under FAA control, drones are seen as aircraft just like a maned plane. I feel Brits are generally to up tight and really don't want a strange drone over their property even though they want to fly over property, lol but not theirs. What do you think? Cultural?
Yes, there are cultural issues around privacy. But I think this issue is about safety, getting close to crowds in public places. And the classification of drones for these settings, including protective propeller covers, etc. and remote identification. In the US you can not fly over without a waiver, but safe distance is not set in stone like UK or Canada.
Thumbs up given but geez … how utterly ridiculous to make this decision! As you say … this really confirms my order being placed now for the Mini 3 Pro. Cheers for keeping us all up to date mate.
@@IaninLondon £779 on Amazon right now. On it's way today. Looking forward to getting flying again, but it's been about 16 years since i was last flying RC planes. Huge changes since then, many unfortunate.
I think anyone buying the Mavic 3 Classic based on its C class rating in the UK was optimistic at best. Even when it was announced, many UK commentators pointed out that the marking was potentially moot in the UK, as has now been proven the case. Yep, the CAA hasn't helped their own cause here, but from a purely personal perspective, it'll save me a lot of money and I'll milk the living heck out of my Air 2S in the meantime. Unfortunately, I think this will also just make responsible pilots wonder why they bother jumping through the hoops in the first place. Shackled at every turn with stuff like this and the abysmal CE transmission shackles (which by the way we should now be binning off for FCC with our new found 'freedom'), how long before even the most responsible just give up and go Wild West?
Just as long as you milk your Air 2S 150m from people and residences, since at 595g, it's now considered A3 class. I won't be paying any more fees to the CAA.
@@onepalproductions While the rules have never been easy to understand, as an A2 CofC owner my understanding is that nothing has changed in terms of how I'm able to operate with the Air 2S until 2026 now. I'm lucky enough to live rurally and by the coast, so much of my flying is in open countryside and over water anyway, but I'll wait for the dust to settle before I consider my next option.
The CAA can go and jump off a bridge. Fuck their rules... And fees. It's all about money and control... Rogue flying will prevail. Power to the people. Our freedom to do as we please and privacy.
I want to see their risk assessments on this class of drone both in Europe and in the U.K.? I want to see what the differences are? This really doesn’t make logical sense. Are they going to compensate those who bought the classic, after all they announced this a week after the classics release and many people have already received their drone they just purchased?..🤔
It’s not about logic, it’s about the CAA being lazy and not wanting to make any decisions- we already know, from comments to parliamentary committee, that the CAA are only interested in major drone companies and are anti-hobby drone users.
Yeah well, there are drone operators out there who don't fly responsibly, so that's why rules are strict. My Mavic has been sat in the cupboard for two years. It may be thrown in the bin when we have the next spring clean.
This isn't about drone operators, it's Brexit government rejecting ALL foreign product registration markings. CE right across the board from consumer electronics to meat exports, all screwed.
I almost bought a Mavic Classic a few weeks ago, but then didn't but only because it's winter and the lack of flight time for a brand new toy. You are right, people pay money for training and insurance to fly both bigger and safer UAV's only to find out it's more restricted than people who don't! Explains why pot isn't legal here either, because we think we are better than any other country! Although when you've watched enough YT videos showing range tests of 5km knowing that it's out of operator visual range, it's not difficult to figure out the CAA's argument. People are openly showing themselves flouting the rules.
Most of these ‘rules’ shouldn’t exist at all. In the name of safety you can ban EVERYTHING…but it is nothing more than clamping your freedoms…because they can. If a model is operated beyond visual range….does it matter….really? No, it is operating remotely whether ten feet away or ten miles away. The CAA dream up these arbitrary ideas with zero practical test or incident data…it is all just suits at desk opinion..made law.
The CAA website and drone rules are not fit for purpose. You have to study those rules which include the C Classification to get a flyer id and no doubt it is also in the A2CofC examination 🤔 I suspect that the CAA are looking to 2026 because by then testing for commercial drone operations will be further along (The UK plans to launch the world’s biggest drone superhighway) and they will be looking carefully at the Airspace below 400ft. Paying £10 for an operator id is peanuts to the Millions to be made from Commercial drone Airspace and control.
Commercial drone highway in your dreams. They cannot maintain ground level infrastructure. But I can imagine the government trying to bottle air to sell it back to us plus VAT of course.
Not suprised at the chaos, BUT I think EASA AND manufacturers twisting the prior rules to get a Mavic 3 into C1 is what has pushed it too far. How can the associated risk be the same between a Mini 3 Pro and a Mavic 3 given the latter is more than x3 the mass. The use of MTOM should have persisted accurately and consistently This would have put the Mavic 3 etc into C2 and I suspect we'd then have seen absolutely zero change across the board and just be waiting for the certification bodies to be up and running.
Weight limit for C1 has been 900 grams from the start. It's just that certifying process was delayed and delayed and Mavic 3 (or Air 2/s) didn't come certified out of gate. (speed limit is another factor for impact energy which is basis for risks)
@@tuunaes You misunderstand, the original mass limits was maximum Tack off Mass MTOM. That is the max the drone can lift including its own mass. What has been adopted is drone mass, this is where there is a difference I think between the indended approach and what has actually been adopted.
If i had just bought one after reading the CAA's website that clearly shows where you can fly this drone until the end of the year, I would just ignore the CAA and continue to fly it but safety and common sense comes first.
I believe so based on the CAA website information, but others are saying the precise legislation still prohibits the Mavic 3 Classic as the law stipulates a difference between EU C marks and UK C Marks. But if that's not clearly spelt out on the CAA website, I think it would be hard to enforce.....
The IR was always ambiguous and the potential use of the C1 EU certified classic was using that ambiguity as a loophole. I don’t think any reasonable person should have expected that the UK would accept an EU approval. The way out of this is for TUV (UK) to become the approving/certifying body. Chances are there are no differences in the type testing and we may find it gets signed off sooner than later. We can hope.
The issue is that Drone manufacturers are not going to make a special UK specific drone if CAA go off at some crazy tangent. The UK Recreational Craft Directive 2017 is causing havoc in the UK boat market and pushed prices up 20 to 30% for no benefit to the customer at all. Just because the Government have decided not to allow the CE mark. Government are cretins with no understanding of manufacturing cost. We will see EU and US get better drones while we make do with sycamore seeds.
@@Sailing_Antrice another Brexit benefit😢 BTW the gov have just postponed derecognition of the CE mark for another year on general products. Not sure how drones in particular are affected.
Just taken delivery of a M3 Classic for mostly commercial reasons. Absolutely gutted, although the C1 rating did seem a bit to good to be true. It now won't have a resale value either. What are the chances of this being over turned ?
I have no wish to be “controversial” but I have no idea why people are so upset ? What difference does it make in practice ? I fail to see why an M3 is not “usable”or “saleable “. You must know more or see more than me ???
@@johndakin9466 The unique selling point of the Classic was that it could be flown in the Open A1 subcategory, without needing to maintain the highly impractical 50 metre horizontal separation distance from uninvolved people to be flown legally. I've done a few drone jobs now for surveyors and estate agents and that separation distance wasn't practical for any of them. I bought a DJI Mini 2 in order to fly in such places legally, which it has been perfectly good for. The Classic is obviously much higher spec, and it would have been very useful for people to be able to use it in the same type of places where large separation distances just aren't practical.
@@mattflynn6328 These rules are being drawn up by the CAA, not the government. And one person's "fun" is another person's misery. Far too many people think they should be entitled to do what they want, but unfortunately they don't want any of the responsibilities that come with those freedoms. Whether it be idiotic drone pilots, morons with scooters, bikes or cars, all behaving like they're the only ones that matter, or just drunken idiots fighting on a Saturday night... many people can't be trusted to behave sensibly.
The essential euphoria and enjoyment might be fine for you, just like the boy racers get the same from driving fast, or the scooter riders who enjoy dodging between pedestrians on the pavement at high speed, or the party loving neighbours playing loud music in to the early hours, or vandals going round smashing things. They all get euphoria and enjoyment from what they do. It's so unfair that people want to stop them having their fun.
Once again, we lose out in the UK. There's absolutely no good reason for the CAA to do this, particularly after they had originally committed to following the new regs.
Its a great drone, but how could they even justify it being in the A1 category, when the air 2S is much lighter. That's one heavy drone to potentially come down in a city center.
I'm in the film and TV industry. Initially I was quite excited about the possibilities of drones, not only for the sake of doing big spectacular aerial shots but also low-level, low-speed tracking stuff without laying tracking rail. My impression was almost immediately that the rules were so tight as to make the whole endeavour fairly pointless and I lost interest. Sad to see the problem continues.
@@allanm1007 That's the problem. If you have closed a city street, you might as well put a crane on a track and have better (certainly quieter) results than the drone. If the only way to use drones is to get individual permissions from dozens of people within some ludicrously huge radius, well, it's basically useless for 95% of shows. I'm not proposing a free for all, but right now it's only useful for the super high end, which always had a dozen options to get the shots it wanted anyway.
@@huffers3111 the CAA response wasnt a surprise. My brother uses drones for low follow shots and if its to the side, on tracks. ah the sort of shots that don't require a direct audio feed. But again, i wasn't shocked to see the CAA update, one thing we are superb at in the UK, is procrastination and beaurocracy.
I’d like to know the DfT reasoning why were so different to Europe. I’d also like to know how much public money is spent on staff to come up with their decisions.
It's because so may people can't fly them safely. Little rich kids buying large drones and being a nuisance or dangerous is why the category is being targeted. A 250g quadcopter is unlikely to cause damage to buildings or infrastructure if it hits it. However a 500g or above unit could damage a railway electrical power supply
My worry is that with all these auditors sometimes hacking off / embarrasing these big companies at somepoint they will keep complaining to the CAA whom will then look at the sub 250 g drones.
The Good Old Days Happily Flying Drones Up To 2020, Total Freedom, No Worries, Not Much Confrontation. Now Flying Drones Is Becoming More And More Complex with More Mental Silliness Thrown into The Mix. Keep Flying, Keep Mentally Sane, Keep Positive, Don't Be Beaten, Drone Flyers.
Sadly, nothing better to report; they did indeed abandon the C labelling system, and also added a new hopelessly restrictive guidance on VLOS.... The CAA are not really flavour of the month with most drone users these days....
Well the CAA keeps up it's common name in the General Aviation community, now extended to the drone community CAA = Committee Against Aviation. I was looking at upgrading from my Mavic Mini 2 , now I'll not bother.
@@IaninLondon for now it seems mate! To be honest despite the markings I don’t feel comfortable flying larger drones in built up areas anyway but it limits the audience somewhat !
How is this enforced just out of interest? Will the Mavic 3 classic only take off when it “knows” that it’s 150 metres away from buildings etc based on geo-fencing? Or does the CAA just hope that everyone is going to keep to their behind-the-times and archaic rules? What’s to stop pilots flying the Mavic 3 classic wherever they want?
Totally peed off as many others like me , saw this as on opportunity to upgrade my Mavic 2 pro , so this is a big kick in the teeth ! I have my C of C and being in FPV UK still only gives me 30 metres! As you stated only one worth buying for me now is the Mavic 3 pro, though not ideal in windy environment I live! Seems these faceless CAA have had us over........very disappointed !
I've had several drones and I have sold them all now that I have the DJI Mini 3 Pro. It's an outstanding drone without the flying rules drama providing you don't use the bigger battery.
Me too, including the original Inspire, which was like flying a chinook (th-cam.com/video/I3clg51tiZI/w-d-xo.html). But I think this debate will soon become irrelevant because soon they'll be able to cram full crash avoidance sensors, a 2hr flight time and a Hasselblad 16-300mm zoom into something that weighs no more than a slice of bread.
Anyone with an interest in drones or an operator needs to write to the CAA, DfT and their MP to question this decision. Complete lack of joined up thinking.
Forgive my ignorance but I'm a bit confused. I was under the impression that any drone (CE marked or not ) under 250 grammes can be flown pretty much anywhere (excluding usual places such as FRZ's, airports prisons etc). Does this mean if you buy the new mini 3 pro with a CE mark on and I assume its below 250 grammes you still cant fly it in A1 Cat?
Hi Bob; you're mixing the wrong markings. CE marking is simply 'safe to be sold in Europe' and appears on everything from your toaster to your washing machine. This video is about new numeric C markings (0 - 5) that should allow you to fly larger drones in more areas. Sub 250gm drones can indeed be flown in most places, irrespective of having no 'C0' marking. However the Mavic 3 Classic is the first mainstream larger drone to get the C1 marking; that should allow you to fly it in most places too, but as a result of the CAA & DfT moving to ignore those markings, it's treated as a legacy, unclassified drone, and relegated to open countryside....
The bit that frustrates me is that I specifically went to the caa website last week, downloaded there info on C class drones..read the permissions, Purchased a Mavic 3 classic as being disabled it allows me to fly from my garden.. And 7 days later im screwed, and 2 grand down. ( fly more kit too) Quite unbelievable...
I’m using 3, all for different jobs based on restrictions, not everyone has that luxury. It’s very disappointing, and I feel let down by the UK CAA and DfT, like they’ve just pulled the rug from under us. My Mavic 3 is my favourite drone, and I would love to be able to just fly it without going through all the planning for the specific category, even at that, still stuck with 30m separation on take off/landing, which isn’t easily achieved. Air 2S is going to be sold, as I can’t get any advantage with it over the M3. My Mini 3 Pro is probably the most important drone I have now, which is a terrible shame, as it’s lightweight makes wind decisions even more important. Generally pissed off, and sometimes feel like chucking it in altogether. Anyway, your videos are always brilliant, informative and very helpful, thanks again.
@@rogerhargreaves2272 thank you. The Air 2S is amazing, I only got the Mavic 3 for it’s variable aperture and long zoom for some jobs. But in reality, the 2S is a perfect package. Got it up on eBay now :)
Thanks for highlighting the statement from the CAA. They obviously find the drone community a real pain in the arse compared to airlines, pilots,aircraft maintenance and manufacturers. They are treating us all as if we the type of people who deliberately fly where they shouldn’t and so must be kept in our boxes! I actually thought there was some respect from them when they asked our opinion going forward but that was clearly a PR tick box exercise.
I'm not so sure; I think they genuinely want to improve things but have suffered from poor communication this time and perhaps not realised the full impact of this. I am the eternal optimist..
No surprises to be honest, brexit has always meant we have no requirement to follow any EU regulations or EASA rules! Hence why I still fly my sub 250g Mini drones, so makes no difference to me ! 👍😁 Saw it coming a country mile away....😳😲🤔😊
@@jjs3287 I realise all that.... My cheap brexit dig was simply, it's made zero benefit for us leaving the EU, only massively impacting us in every possible negative way, including flying a plastic toy! 🙄 I'm prepared for that day, my drone will get covered in feathers and I'll go fly my 'pet bird' in the park!⚠️😲😁
Having bought the Mavic Pro prior to previous legislation changes then to be hit with new rules, its never been out the bag since. So glad i purchased the Mini 3 pro…
Thanks for the heads up again Ian , very disappointed with the way the CAA have back tracked typical useless government department the drone companies try to accommodated and they move the goal post 😒
this is the first update in weeks i'm hearing of the on going caa decision, and it looks like we have it... typical nanny state Britain. over regulate a non existent problem. i ordered a mavic 3 classic last week and it's due to be shipped in 4 days from dji on a back order. i'm going to cancel it today. i sold my air 2s on ebay last week too as the writing was on the wall so got rid before January 1st 2023. i am beyond pissed off. within months of the new regs coming into law, thy pull this! looks like i'm sticking to the mini 3 but it's little 12mp camera just isnt up to the task on low light environments and i like to shoot sunset photos for canvas wall arts. i'm just sick of being under the thumb of these very unreasonable, uncompromising people. younger me would have risked flying it anyway and kept the classic, but older me wont risk the 1000 quid fine, the drone being confiscated, and flyer id being revoked if you get caught. and it seems coppers are much more aware of drone rules now compared to a few years ago so the chances are much higher of them asking to land it and see it etc when out and about. i'm so gutted
All so the Secretary of State for Transport can get a pat on the back for ditching something with 'EU' written on it. Still, at least we can still fly our Mavic 3s in those 'sunlit uplands', eh? 😕
Nothing to do with leaving the EU! FFS!!! We don't need the EU to make laws for us! We need to kick the arse of the morons in Government. The CAA have always been against aviation in this country.
I wish there was a decent sub 500g option, as with a2cofc you can fly close to uninvolved people as long as you don’t overfly them, that's good enough for me.
- Under 900g in maximum take-off mass, or are made and perform in a way that if they collide with a person, the energy transmitted will be less than 80 Joules; - They have a maximum speed of 19m/s (approx. 42.5 mph); - They are designed and constructed so as to minimise injury to people; - The standards also cover other aspects such as noise limits, height limits and requirements for remote identification and geo-awareness systems.
To a certain degree it really should've been expected. Since Brexit, you now have 2 sovereign states and even tho the regulations were agreed upon in principle by all EU states (when the UK was a part of the EU), the UK/EU divorce wasn't amicable so it's inderstandable that no government wants to be a party of the other. But, it's the little man that is screwed over, the answer might be as simple as petitioning the CAA and DfT but we are the ones who pay in the end
Fair point, but the EASA-based rules specifically allowed individual countries to add their own additional restrictions and changes. The don't have to ignore the C marks.... just extend the Transition period and change the rules when they have a viable alternative.
UK could still have adopted them if they wanted - it's like NZ make use of CE approval for medical products rather than redo the conformance process themselves.
It appears they have just copy/pasted big chunks of legislation over, but someone didn't proofread it properly and there are now several contradictions. I think they have realised this and are now backtracking to clean it up.
@@brian7android985 They had no choice but to just copy paste the EU legislation. To change it they have to understand all its implications then decided what they want to change. Changing regulations takes time in parliament unless you want the government to make law with out the involvement of MPs. Lets imagine that there is a EU regulation that states that the blades used on drones should be made with a certain material, with certain properties and testing. What new materials should be allowed, how should the properties and testing change. The government is currently legislating to remove all the copy pasted EU regulations without looking to see what the implications of there removal all. It could be that in two years there will be know regulations about many products.
They should at least allow C1 Classification to be used for the same time as the extended transitional period for fairness. Currently we can fly the C1 Class drone in the A1 category until January 2023, but we can fly the transitional period till 2026, not fair at all
I completely agree with your disappointment! I still believe that if the agencies that control the sky don't make money, they are not interested in hobbyists flying drones. So sad.
Do I need the A2 CofC with the Mavic 3 classic even if I'm only going to use it in the countryside etc? I don't have any plans to use it I'm a congested area so I wanted to double check first. Thanks 👍🏻
I can't really afford a Mavic 3 Classic right now, so I'm selfishly a bit relieved that my A2 Transitional permissions as an A2 CofC holder and also a sub-250g drone are still the best I can do for the time being. Sorry to everybody who has been let down by this announcement though!
Thanks for the information! I’ve literally just upgraded from the mini 3 pro to the Mavic 3 classic 😂 but, the a2 licence is still giving us an extra 100m reduced distance, so it’s not all lost. We can hope that they will pull their heads out of their arses and change the rules for something they no nothing about, to what will benefit people that use these drones daily.
As I commented on Sean’s video it’s an absolute farce, extend the transitional but retain the class markings until the new regulations are agreed whether that be mtom or other the update at the end of November better bring better news this debacle yet again will lead to more illegal flying resulting in further limitations for those trying to follow the legislation.
Well said Ian mate and great video. This to me is a funny option that CAA has decided to do. We as drone pilots respect everything we do, and stand by what we are told by CAA and fly safe. Now, lets look at our ground level, death traps we call Cars, motorbikes. These are driven by UNLICENCED drivers, or driven by car thief's that kill on the roads and our Police take chase etc.. We in the Air are just enjoying what we do as a hobby and should not in any shape or form have to be pushed out of a door after sitting tests to fly and fly with caution. Again, our ground Police are chasing killer drivers daily and many in prison... God, I could go on about this but better not.
To be fair stealing cars is, er, discouraged, legally speaking :) , and drivers are meant to get licenses. Again not doing so is law-breaking. But that works because of the balance of penalty to benefit from having a license. For drone users it seems the CAA are attempting to wipe out any benefit from having the proper paperwork, which can't help encourage responsible flying. Plus the long term problem that - if the CAA start tweaking regulations so our relatively insignificantly little island has unique ones - the divergence will discourage new products from coming here at all - and certainly not quickly. Or perhaps we'll end up with scenarios like the European region (including UK) Mavic 3 Pro being deprived of the meatier battery. Plus I really don't like the impression given that these rules are being tweaked with for the sake of divergence - agencies asked to create different rules from the EU to justify Brexit. Whatever your views on that, this seems an area of law that works better when it covers a larger area (perhaps, if we sort that out, our paperwork could work in the EU again...)
As you say, Ian, a very disappointing chain of events. It would be wonderful if people who make laws could use common sense and reasoned thought in making their decisions. Cheers from Wisconsin
If more people used common sense and reasoned thought, there wouldn't be the need for so much regulation in the first place. It's easy to see these things only from only one point of view, eg as a drone pilot, but there are others that are equally as valid. If you think it's easy to just come up with new laws, go to a law library and look at a few statutes to see how complicated they are. Highly qualified lawyers spend a lot of time on the wording of statutes, trying to make them precise, so there aren't any loopholes and they don't contradict existing laws.
Firstly I agree that the information is confusing and the CAA appear to be back tracking. However, as a mini 2 pilot that flies when his drone App is not offering Land only 😭😭, I think the move away from heavier drones over and above members of the public is perhaps not a bad thing. The mini 2 and mini 3 are more than capable drones tbh and will do anything and everything that the plus 250g drones will do. I am sure in the future the CAA will start to put restrictions on the sub 250 gram drones 😔😔 And this is more likely to happen when you have drone fliers like DJ Audits winding up businesses with their "I am gonna fly over the top of your business and there is nothing that you can do about it" attitude 😠😠 This will signal the end for people like me that live in a residential area.
dude, you cant compare the mini 3 pro camera to a air 2s or mavic 3/classic camera, especially the mavic 3. i do photos and the mini 3 with it's tiny sensor is awful in certain situations
@@TravelByRail I think as far as image and video comparison goes you have got to have a keen eye to spot the difference between these drones. They all have roughly the same flying time. The main difference is the obstacle avoidance. But I would say that if you require avoidance then you are not putting enough distance between yourself and objects. Probably fair to say that 99.9 percent of drone video is recorded between 50 and 120 metres where you don't need it. I completely understand where people have invested money to then hear this news. But I would say the bigger and heavier the drone the more restricted it should. I understand that won't be a popular comment 👍👍
@@wacman completely agree. The guy is an absolute menace. There is another guy that does a similar thing flying over police stations and prisons. It really annoys me. 😠😠
Ian, I fly PPL at Manchester Barton. I also enjoy flying my drone. The CAA cannot control drones because they can be purchased by anybody from Currys PC World, Argos, and many other retailers who only want to make a sale. Many of these buyers will not be interested in learning what they can and can't do or studying and passing a drone qualification. The irresponsible always want a free ride and are not bothered if they wreck it for others. The CAA will know this.
Well slightly glad I did my A2 CoC because it looked like it was gonna be pointless. I'm just glad I hadn't pulled the trigger on the M3C which I was about to do. Do we ever get a break in this country? 2 years of C rating this and that and then this! bloody infuriating! I will stick with my Air2 S, mini 2 and Parrot anafi for a while longer
@ChriS CarLyLe With A2 CofC you can fly in a built up area but must keep the 50m separation distance from uninvolved people horizontally with say the mavic 3, with a sub 500g drone you can fly with no separation just not deliberately over uninvolved people. Having said that article 16 flying as a member of a club like FPVUK gives more freedoms than this however no commercial flying, no automated flight and do a quick risk assessment check out the differences for A2 COC and Artical 16 Ian has an excellent video that explains it much better than I can
I am registered with the CAA but I have to find out about this from you. Its about time the CAA took their thumbs out of their arses and got this all sorted. They should notify registered users of changes with their over priced computers they purchased with our registration fees.
Personally, I have invested in a new business venture that ideally requires the better camera the Mavic series offers. But, more fool me. Yes I have the A2COFc that was part of the plan, but as a forward-thinking person, I sadly believed that the UK would try and at least attempt to benefit society from Brexit and encourage growth aspiration. How wrong that thinking is. Procrastination and lack of faith in new technologies seem to be the way we are these days. Overall, the country seems mired in UTurns, indecision and buck-passing. For some this is a wonderful benefit of Brexit, stop new businesses from emerging so the old guard stays richer. Make the swimming pool smaller so small old fish are bigger and more powerful in a tiny pond. Never mind the loss of business, staffing and security benefits. Stand tall and isolated, buck the trend, ignore the science and keep down people trying to grow into a bigger better more modern space. Perhaps we should have barriers to the wider internet as well so we can't see too much of the world. Maybe like horses being trotted down the road we should all be happy with blinkers on. Fine... lets all of us be happy watching the rest of world move forward and advance itself. After all, they need a head start! Our aging society is just getting warmed up and will soon catch those whippersnappers!
I think the CAA have an agenda somewhere and there preference is not to own a drone at all. So by continually changing the goal posts it allows a form of stalemate to exist. Its a typically British mess. All the best Ian. M
For non-drone viewers, this is about drone flyers being able to take pictures and videos of landmarks and landscape in more built up areas, but still whilst staying high up. They should still remain around 50 metres above people to ensure privacy; drones' cameras are like mobile phones and people are just dots from that height. Until this announcement, this particular drone would have been permitted to fly in most areas; now it can't. But remember, drones have nothing like the zoom lenses that standard DSLR cameras have. It's not about invasion of privacy; 99.99% of drone flyers have zero interest in the tiny dots of people on the ground! And for the dronies, this means we miss out on a lot more freedoms than were originally planned. What's your thoughts?
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But for those Brits who also travel to Europe we can still enjoy freedoms. That said, is my Mavic 3 now also C1 rated with the software update ….?
I don't think I shall bother renewing my licence, and I have saved up for a dji Classic. I am sick of being treat like a mushroom.
I have never intended to buy a new dji drone over 249g since 2019, and I haven't
Not nice for us, in EU - using them in UK. 249G wins hands down ...
@@derekpask3633 exactly.
This will split drone users and would be drone users into two groups 1. Those who will stick with sub 249g drones, 2. Those that will do what they like regardless of the rules
Group 2 is growing by the day:) as FPV drone pilot I really couldn't care less about these rules and use common sense (not flying in urban areas, not flying close to people , or near airports/harbors/jails)
@@TheCivildecaydo you register your drones above 250g?
One can understand why some people ignore rules when they seem unreasonable. One only has to go to any town/city to see that illegal electric scooters are more prevalent than the official trial scooters. It will be the same with drones. Many will not even get a free licence or mark the ID on their drone and there will be am uncontrolled free for all.
Lets hope the Government and the CAA get themselves sorted - and soon.
Less than one percent of crimes are solved now -so do what you want I guess? Just don’t misgender someone accidentally; then you’ll get a Knock on the door.
I am an inspecting building surveyor and use drones for my work very successfully. I have a couple of sub 250g drones and a couple of heavier drones, one of which is a thermal drone. I work in congested areas much of the time. I went ahead and obtained A2 C of C and that has also been helpful. However, I was going to buy a Mavic 3 Classic, until now obviously. This appears to be another downside to our non-EU status I'm afraid, fishing was let down badly but that's another story. Feeling sorry for those who purchased the Mavic 3 Classic, I think we will see quite a few being returned/sold. I feel confused by CAA and let down slightly...I have no real faith in them unfortunately.
I purchased a Mavic 3 Classic and sold my Air2s literally because of the C1 marking. Their timing is impeccable and they are they completely unaccountable.
I'm getting a Mavic 3 regardless of this latest "edict" from "on high". I do similar to you and just get on with it. If I worried - I'd never go to work !
@Richard Bedford how does one go about getting a job in your field, what would you look for in some one if you was to employ them?
So how would it be different if we were in the EU?
@@gingernutpreacher you can use your mavic 3 classics like a mini 3 pro (almost) as they have the new c labels
There's never a dull moment. Seems like the only route is to make the MINI series out of carbon fiber and up the camera to their Hasselblad line. Please include controllable f stops.
I like your thinking... :)
That would be nice, but would the UK alone be a viable market for a drone like that?
@@simonelliott5956 i think the sub 250g market isn't just for regulation purposes, it's also a great market for hikers/adventures/people who want to throw a drone in the bag and not really notice the size and weight, something smaller, lighter and with great IQ has universal appeal
@RCmadness Good points!
Typical CAA frankly. Have had involvement with their regulatory incompetence over many, many years when it comes to General Aviation in the UK. Left hand not talking with the right one and total ignorance of ALL factors that need to be considered before stating a final decision. Thanks for the update here Ian.
100% agree
It's the DFT not CAA that's to blame!
@@timballam3675 Having spent a number of years working with govt departments, including the CAA and DfT, I am not sure not I agree. Whilst the DfT is the legislative body, and so must be seen to make the decisions, it is the CAA that will inform and advise. The DfT would be very unlikely to go against CAA recommendations.
Absolutely agree.
Beggars belief how they ever come to such decisions, or not as the case may be.
Cancel All Aviation are notorious for this kind of shambles. Yet more Brexit collateral.
Wow, so sorry to see what you're going through in the UK. I would be interested to hear what Philip Bloom has to say about all this, I'm sure he has a few choice words : O
Here in Canada, with the Advanced Pilot license from Transport Canada, the minimum horizontal distance for none participants is 5 meters which illustrates how out of whack the CAA is with common wealth countries. Hoping they come to their senses sooner than later....
I think the reason drones are being regulated to the country side away from any people, buildings, points of interest in the UK is cultural. After reading comments, watching many Geek sessions, it's seems most if not all British agree flying over private property is a privacy violation. Even the drone enthusiasts, drone owners don't want drones over their own property. If this is how everyone feels you're not going to get to fly anywhere near people or property.
I live in Southern California my city has passed laws allowing drones up to 55 lbs. Not that they can control the airspace. The local laws are really meant to inform the public don't bother calling the police if you see a drone, waist of resources. You can fly over private property but just not "directly" over people. You can cross roads fly along side roads but not over traffic, but directly over homes. Crash on a roof is not a huge safety issue. Most people understand your not looking at them, there dots. Real-estate companies hover directly over the neighbors homes to get shots of the home forsale. Our culture is here "laid back" for most, they don't freakout. People are interested in the potential of drones. About every construction sight has 3d mapping done weekly to show progress, those drones are computer flown over around all the properties next to the construction site. Nobody is screaming privacy, we're use to cameras everywhere. Drones are used by animal right activists to fly over private farms to document aninmal abuses. Our culture feels you have no privacy rights when in public view. Like the guy next door can look out his window into your backyard, no drone needed. Your culture would call that privacy invasion, looking out my window into your yard? Here you have no expectation of privacy in public. If you can be seen you are in public. Stan's naked in your front window, and scream privacy as childre pass. Lmao, Here cities and states have no control at all over the air space, from 1ft to space is under FAA control, drones are seen as aircraft just like a maned plane. I feel Brits are generally to up tight and really don't want a strange drone over their property even though they want to fly over property, lol but not theirs. What do you think? Cultural?
Yes, there are cultural issues around privacy. But I think this issue is about safety, getting close to crowds in public places. And the classification of drones for these settings, including protective propeller covers, etc. and remote identification. In the US you can not fly over without a waiver, but safe distance is not set in stone like UK or Canada.
Thumbs up given but geez … how utterly ridiculous to make this decision! As you say … this really confirms my order being placed now for the Mini 3 Pro.
Cheers for keeping us all up to date mate.
Thanks Glyn. You'll love the Mini 3 Pro, I guarantee it. Make sure you get the RC package that has the screen in the remote. £850. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
@@IaninLondon £779 on Amazon right now. On it's way today. Looking forward to getting flying again, but it's been about 16 years since i was last flying RC planes. Huge changes since then, many unfortunate.
I think anyone buying the Mavic 3 Classic based on its C class rating in the UK was optimistic at best. Even when it was announced, many UK commentators pointed out that the marking was potentially moot in the UK, as has now been proven the case.
Yep, the CAA hasn't helped their own cause here, but from a purely personal perspective, it'll save me a lot of money and I'll milk the living heck out of my Air 2S in the meantime.
Unfortunately, I think this will also just make responsible pilots wonder why they bother jumping through the hoops in the first place. Shackled at every turn with stuff like this and the abysmal CE transmission shackles (which by the way we should now be binning off for FCC with our new found 'freedom'), how long before even the most responsible just give up and go Wild West?
Just as long as you milk your Air 2S 150m from people and residences, since at 595g, it's now considered A3 class.
I won't be paying any more fees to the CAA.
@@onepalproductions While the rules have never been easy to understand, as an A2 CofC owner my understanding is that nothing has changed in terms of how I'm able to operate with the Air 2S until 2026 now. I'm lucky enough to live rurally and by the coast, so much of my flying is in open countryside and over water anyway, but I'll wait for the dust to settle before I consider my next option.
@@redzeppelinuk Indeed, you're fine, for now. Let's hope we don't follow the FAA with compulsory remote I.D.
The CAA can go and jump off a bridge. Fuck their rules... And fees. It's all about money and control... Rogue flying will prevail. Power to the people. Our freedom to do as we please and privacy.
I want to see their risk assessments on this class of drone both in Europe and in the U.K.?
I want to see what the differences are?
This really doesn’t make logical sense.
Are they going to compensate those who bought the classic, after all they announced this a week after the classics release and many people have already received their drone they just purchased?..🤔
Thats bureaucrats for you, don't fully understand what they are doing, just get paid lots of money.
It’s not about logic, it’s about the CAA being lazy and not wanting to make any decisions- we already know, from comments to parliamentary committee, that the CAA are only interested in major drone companies and are anti-hobby drone users.
Typical UK government making it hard work for drone operators yet again. Can't just let people go out and have fun flying responsibly 🤷🏻♂
Thanks to Brexit the CAA can do whatever they see fit.😑
Yh but what actually counts as the countryside
Yeah well, there are drone operators out there who don't fly responsibly, so that's why rules are strict.
My Mavic has been sat in the cupboard for two years. It may be thrown in the bin when we have the next spring clean.
It's not government it's the bigger drone companies pushing regulation to monopolies.
This isn't about drone operators, it's Brexit government rejecting ALL foreign product registration markings. CE right across the board from consumer electronics to meat exports, all screwed.
I almost bought a Mavic Classic a few weeks ago, but then didn't but only because it's winter and the lack of flight time for a brand new toy. You are right, people pay money for training and insurance to fly both bigger and safer UAV's only to find out it's more restricted than people who don't! Explains why pot isn't legal here either, because we think we are better than any other country! Although when you've watched enough YT videos showing range tests of 5km knowing that it's out of operator visual range, it's not difficult to figure out the CAA's argument. People are openly showing themselves flouting the rules.
Most of these ‘rules’ shouldn’t exist at all. In the name of safety you can ban EVERYTHING…but it is nothing more than clamping your freedoms…because they can. If a model is operated beyond visual range….does it matter….really? No, it is operating remotely whether ten feet away or ten miles away. The CAA dream up these arbitrary ideas with zero practical test or incident data…it is all just suits at desk opinion..made law.
Great summary about some bad news. Thanks for this video
The CAA website and drone rules are not fit for purpose.
You have to study those rules which include the C Classification to get a flyer id and no doubt it is also in the A2CofC examination 🤔
I suspect that the CAA are looking to 2026 because by then testing for commercial drone operations will be further along (The UK plans to launch the world’s biggest drone superhighway) and they will be looking carefully at the Airspace below 400ft.
Paying £10 for an operator id is peanuts to the Millions to be made from Commercial drone Airspace and control.
Commercial drone highway in your dreams. They cannot maintain ground level infrastructure. But I can imagine the government trying to bottle air to sell it back to us plus VAT of course.
Not suprised at the chaos, BUT I think EASA AND manufacturers twisting the prior rules to get a Mavic 3 into C1 is what has pushed it too far. How can the associated risk be the same between a Mini 3 Pro and a Mavic 3 given the latter is more than x3 the mass. The use of MTOM should have persisted accurately and consistently This would have put the Mavic 3 etc into C2 and I suspect we'd then have seen absolutely zero change across the board and just be waiting for the certification bodies to be up and running.
Weight limit for C1 has been 900 grams from the start.
It's just that certifying process was delayed and delayed and Mavic 3 (or Air 2/s) didn't come certified out of gate.
(speed limit is another factor for impact energy which is basis for risks)
@@tuunaes You misunderstand, the original mass limits was maximum Tack off Mass MTOM. That is the max the drone can lift including its own mass. What has been adopted is drone mass, this is where there is a difference I think between the indended approach and what has actually been adopted.
If i had just bought one after reading the CAA's website that clearly shows where you can fly this drone until the end of the year, I would just ignore the CAA and continue to fly it but safety and common sense comes first.
Yes we have untill the end of this year to use it as a C1. With C1 permissions as per EU..
Correct me if im wrong Ian.
I believe so based on the CAA website information, but others are saying the precise legislation still prohibits the Mavic 3 Classic as the law stipulates a difference between EU C marks and UK C Marks. But if that's not clearly spelt out on the CAA website, I think it would be hard to enforce.....
didnt you start by saying they had consulted and that you all said they wanted the old rules extended?
The IR was always ambiguous and the potential use of the C1 EU certified classic was using that ambiguity as a loophole. I don’t think any reasonable person should have expected that the UK would accept an EU approval. The way out of this is for TUV (UK) to become the approving/certifying body. Chances are there are no differences in the type testing and we may find it gets signed off sooner than later. We can hope.
The issue is that Drone manufacturers are not going to make a special UK specific drone if CAA go off at some crazy tangent. The UK Recreational Craft Directive 2017 is causing havoc in the UK boat market and pushed prices up 20 to 30% for no benefit to the customer at all. Just because the Government have decided not to allow the CE mark. Government are cretins with no understanding of manufacturing cost. We will see EU and US get better drones while we make do with sycamore seeds.
@@Sailing_Antrice another Brexit benefit😢
BTW the gov have just postponed derecognition of the CE mark for another year on general products. Not sure how drones in particular are affected.
Very Interesting. Sorry That This Is Happening. Thank You Ian.
Just taken delivery of a M3 Classic for mostly commercial reasons. Absolutely gutted, although the C1 rating did seem a bit to good to be true. It now won't have a resale value either. What are the chances of this being over turned ?
I have no wish to be “controversial” but I have no idea why people are so upset ? What difference does it make in practice ? I fail to see why an M3 is not “usable”or “saleable “. You must know more or see more than me ???
@@johndakin9466 The unique selling point of the Classic was that it could be flown in the Open A1 subcategory, without needing to maintain the highly impractical 50 metre horizontal separation distance from uninvolved people to be flown legally. I've done a few drone jobs now for surveyors and estate agents and that separation distance wasn't practical for any of them. I bought a DJI Mini 2 in order to fly in such places legally, which it has been perfectly good for. The Classic is obviously much higher spec, and it would have been very useful for people to be able to use it in the same type of places where large separation distances just aren't practical.
Might sound like a silly question but what does this mean for people flying DJI mavic 2 pro?
This is precisely what strips away the essential euphoria and enjoyment of flying drones
which is the point of our "authorities" and civil services
Government don't want anyone to have fun. The UK is a miserable country to live in.
@@mattflynn6328 These rules are being drawn up by the CAA, not the government. And one person's "fun" is another person's misery. Far too many people think they should be entitled to do what they want, but unfortunately they don't want any of the responsibilities that come with those freedoms. Whether it be idiotic drone pilots, morons with scooters, bikes or cars, all behaving like they're the only ones that matter, or just drunken idiots fighting on a Saturday night... many people can't be trusted to behave sensibly.
The essential euphoria and enjoyment might be fine for you, just like the boy racers get the same from driving fast, or the scooter riders who enjoy dodging between pedestrians on the pavement at high speed, or the party loving neighbours playing loud music in to the early hours, or vandals going round smashing things. They all get euphoria and enjoyment from what they do. It's so unfair that people want to stop them having their fun.
@@another3997 you’re certainly correct about people who inconsiderately behave like that.
How disappointing. Good to know I don't have to rush to sell my Air 2 - but gah the CAA... you were doing so well!
Once again, we lose out in the UK. There's absolutely no good reason for the CAA to do this, particularly after they had originally committed to following the new regs.
Its a great drone, but how could they even justify it being in the A1 category, when the air 2S is much lighter. That's one heavy drone to potentially come down in a city center.
I'm in the film and TV industry. Initially I was quite excited about the possibilities of drones, not only for the sake of doing big spectacular aerial shots but also low-level, low-speed tracking stuff without laying tracking rail. My impression was almost immediately that the rules were so tight as to make the whole endeavour fairly pointless and I lost interest. Sad to see the problem continues.
For filming, cast and crew are involved persons. If you have a closed set no problems.
@@allanm1007 That's the problem. If you have closed a city street, you might as well put a crane on a track and have better (certainly quieter) results than the drone. If the only way to use drones is to get individual permissions from dozens of people within some ludicrously huge radius, well, it's basically useless for 95% of shows. I'm not proposing a free for all, but right now it's only useful for the super high end, which always had a dozen options to get the shots it wanted anyway.
@@huffers3111 the CAA response wasnt a surprise. My brother uses drones for low follow shots and if its to the side, on tracks. ah the sort of shots that don't require a direct audio feed.
But again, i wasn't shocked to see the CAA update, one thing we are superb at in the UK, is procrastination and beaurocracy.
I’d like to know the DfT reasoning why were so different to Europe. I’d also like to know how much public money is spent on staff to come up with their decisions.
Because anything considered EU by the present criminally corrupt government cannot possibly be seen as a good thing, therefore must do the opposite.
It's because so may people can't fly them safely. Little rich kids buying large drones and being a nuisance or dangerous is why the category is being targeted.
A 250g quadcopter is unlikely to cause damage to buildings or infrastructure if it hits it. However a 500g or above unit could damage a railway electrical power supply
Makes no sense at all. In fact, the change is unreasonable and deserves to be heard in a court of law.
wont there be a newer drone in 3 years time anyway?
This is a kick in the teeth for UK Drone flyers.
Annoying isn't it! 😐
Cheers Ian, what a complete ball ache though!!
My worry is that with all these auditors sometimes hacking off / embarrasing these big companies at somepoint they will keep complaining to the CAA whom will then look at the sub 250 g drones.
I’m surprised it hasn’t happened already.
Under 250G no change is that right ?
For the moment.......
@@IaninLondon don’t think this category will change for a long time. 🙏👍🙏👍👍👍
We've played by the rules and we get shafted, time to not give a dam and fly wherever !!
Excellent commentary Ian.
The Good Old Days Happily Flying Drones Up To 2020, Total Freedom, No Worries, Not Much Confrontation. Now Flying Drones Is Becoming More And More Complex with More Mental Silliness Thrown into The Mix. Keep Flying, Keep Mentally Sane, Keep Positive, Don't Be Beaten, Drone Flyers.
Hi Ian would there be any chance you could do an update to this film now we are 6 months on. Have you had any news from the CAA. Cheers.
Sadly, nothing better to report; they did indeed abandon the C labelling system, and also added a new hopelessly restrictive guidance on VLOS.... The CAA are not really flavour of the month with most drone users these days....
Well the CAA keeps up it's common name in the General Aviation community, now extended to the drone community CAA = Committee Against Aviation. I was looking at upgrading from my Mavic Mini 2 , now I'll not bother.
Great piece. Informative and interesting as always.
Nice update Ian, it’s poor all round I believe. Extend the legacy no issue but still make provisions for the C1 marked
Cheers Gavin. Spot on.....! Hope you're still enjoying yours now! :)
@@IaninLondon for now it seems mate! To be honest despite the markings I don’t feel comfortable flying larger drones in built up areas anyway but it limits the audience somewhat !
Yep. I find when flying in towns, people near me seem to view the Mini 3 Pro as a toy and don't care. Which is exactly how I like it :)
love the hand signs, geezer 0:27
many people will just fly them regardless of area if they feel hard done by, CAA hate drones it's so sad they are not supportive
How is this enforced just out of interest? Will the Mavic 3 classic only take off when it “knows” that it’s 150 metres away from buildings etc based on geo-fencing? Or does the CAA just hope that everyone is going to keep to their behind-the-times and archaic rules? What’s to stop pilots flying the Mavic 3 classic wherever they want?
Nothing at all; just like driving a car. They make rules and hope people stick to them, but have the threat of fines as well.....
Totally peed off as many others like me , saw this as on opportunity to upgrade my Mavic 2 pro , so this is a big kick in the teeth ! I have my C of C and being in FPV UK still only gives me 30 metres! As you stated only one worth buying for me now is the Mavic 3 pro, though not ideal in windy environment I live! Seems these faceless CAA have had us over........very disappointed !
So how do the emergency services stand with their use following the investment and training put into drone use?
I've had several drones and I have sold them all now that I have the DJI Mini 3 Pro. It's an outstanding drone without the flying rules drama providing you don't use the bigger battery.
Is it same with mini2?
Me too, including the original Inspire, which was like flying a chinook (th-cam.com/video/I3clg51tiZI/w-d-xo.html). But I think this debate will soon become irrelevant because soon they'll be able to cram full crash avoidance sensors, a 2hr flight time and a Hasselblad 16-300mm zoom into something that weighs no more than a slice of bread.
@@jjs3287 So do I!
Doesn't the A2 CoC say that you can fly within 5m if in slow-speed mode (cine)? Or was that only going to be relevant once the C markings came in?
C markings
Same, I did my A2 mostly for that specific reason! False advertisement, we paid for a qualification on that basis and it never materialised!
Anyone with an interest in drones or an operator needs to write to the CAA, DfT and their MP to question this decision. Complete lack of joined up thinking.
Forgive my ignorance but I'm a bit confused. I was under the impression that any drone (CE marked or not ) under 250 grammes can be flown pretty much anywhere (excluding usual places such as FRZ's, airports prisons etc). Does this mean if you buy the new mini 3 pro with a CE mark on and I assume its below 250 grammes you still cant fly it in A1 Cat?
Hi Bob; you're mixing the wrong markings. CE marking is simply 'safe to be sold in Europe' and appears on everything from your toaster to your washing machine. This video is about new numeric C markings (0 - 5) that should allow you to fly larger drones in more areas. Sub 250gm drones can indeed be flown in most places, irrespective of having no 'C0' marking. However the Mavic 3 Classic is the first mainstream larger drone to get the C1 marking; that should allow you to fly it in most places too, but as a result of the CAA & DfT moving to ignore those markings, it's treated as a legacy, unclassified drone, and relegated to open countryside....
@@IaninLondon Thanks for clarifying 👍
The bit that frustrates me is that I specifically went to the caa website last week, downloaded there info on C class drones..read the permissions, Purchased a Mavic 3 classic as being disabled it allows me to fly from my garden.. And 7 days later im screwed, and 2 grand down. ( fly more kit too)
Quite unbelievable...
This is what's so annoying. I really do feel for you fella....
@@IaninLondon thanks Ian
Fuck em, and continue to fly it from your garden!
@@ptaylor5014 if i could survive a week inside i might.. But my health ain't great :) but I understand the sentiment mate..
Sign up for the FPVUK membership and fly under article 16, problem solved. Happy flying 😊
I’m using 3, all for different jobs based on restrictions, not everyone has that luxury. It’s very disappointing, and I feel let down by the UK CAA and DfT, like they’ve just pulled the rug from under us.
My Mavic 3 is my favourite drone, and I would love to be able to just fly it without going through all the planning for the specific category, even at that, still stuck with 30m separation on take off/landing, which isn’t easily achieved.
Air 2S is going to be sold, as I can’t get any advantage with it over the M3. My Mini 3 Pro is probably the most important drone I have now, which is a terrible shame, as it’s lightweight makes wind decisions even more important.
Generally pissed off, and sometimes feel like chucking it in altogether.
Anyway, your videos are always brilliant, informative and very helpful, thanks again.
Best and most constructive comment yet. I can’t agree with you more on that one. I’d love an Air 2 S btw.
@@rogerhargreaves2272 thank you. The Air 2S is amazing, I only got the Mavic 3 for it’s variable aperture and long zoom for some jobs. But in reality, the 2S is a perfect package. Got it up on eBay now :)
@@CJW-Media Nice one. Thank you for taking your time to reply. 😀👍
Good points and thanks for the good words ,👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
making my mini3 pro even more worth owning
Thanks for highlighting the statement from the CAA.
They obviously find the drone community a real pain in the arse compared to airlines, pilots,aircraft maintenance and manufacturers.
They are treating us all as if we the type of people who deliberately fly where they shouldn’t and so must be kept in our boxes!
I actually thought there was some respect from them when they asked our opinion going forward but that was clearly a PR tick box exercise.
I'm not so sure; I think they genuinely want to improve things but have suffered from poor communication this time and perhaps not realised the full impact of this. I am the eternal optimist..
I'm a former helicopter pilot. They treat pilots the same, we use to say CAA stood for Cancel All Aviation!
No surprises to be honest, brexit has always meant we have no requirement to follow any EU regulations or EASA rules!
Hence why I still fly my sub 250g Mini drones, so makes no difference to me ! 👍😁
Saw it coming a country mile away....😳😲🤔😊
Problem is we follow all the other eu bullshit rules.
@@tonyrobinson362 Yes exactly! Makes you wonder what was the point of brexit in the first place⚠️😲🤔
@@jjs3287 I realise all that....
My cheap brexit dig was simply, it's made zero benefit for us leaving the EU, only massively impacting us in every possible negative way, including flying a plastic toy! 🙄
I'm prepared for that day, my drone will get covered in feathers and I'll go fly my 'pet bird' in the park!⚠️😲😁
Having bought the Mavic Pro prior to previous legislation changes then to be hit with new rules, its never been out the bag since. So glad i purchased the Mini 3 pro…
I’m just going to keep flying and use common sense. 👊
Filming and photography is an art form. When have artists achieved anything by sticking to rules?
We all need to follow your advice
too right, i just fly as and where i want with common sense. f the rules that dont make sense.
Well explained. Thank you.
Thanks for the heads up again Ian , very disappointed with the way the CAA have back tracked typical useless government department the drone companies try to accommodated and they move the goal post 😒
Thanks Karen. Hopefully no movement on the 250gm drone rules for your Mini 3 Pro 👍🏻👍🏻
so they asked for c classification then rejected them when they were adopted by manufacturers? why??
this is the first update in weeks i'm hearing of the on going caa decision, and it looks like we have it... typical nanny state Britain. over regulate a non existent problem. i ordered a mavic 3 classic last week and it's due to be shipped in 4 days from dji on a back order. i'm going to cancel it today. i sold my air 2s on ebay last week too as the writing was on the wall so got rid before January 1st 2023. i am beyond pissed off. within months of the new regs coming into law, thy pull this! looks like i'm sticking to the mini 3 but it's little 12mp camera just isnt up to the task on low light environments and i like to shoot sunset photos for canvas wall arts.
i'm just sick of being under the thumb of these very unreasonable, uncompromising people. younger me would have risked flying it anyway and kept the classic, but older me wont risk the 1000 quid fine, the drone being confiscated, and flyer id being revoked if you get caught. and it seems coppers are much more aware of drone rules now compared to a few years ago so the chances are much higher of them asking to land it and see it etc when out and about. i'm so gutted
Rules n more rules..fly safe guys
All so the Secretary of State for Transport can get a pat on the back for ditching something with 'EU' written on it. Still, at least we can still fly our Mavic 3s in those 'sunlit uplands', eh? 😕
Nothing to do with leaving the EU! FFS!!! We don't need the EU to make laws for us! We need to kick the arse of the morons in Government. The CAA have always been against aviation in this country.
I wish there was a decent sub 500g option, as with a2cofc you can fly close to uninvolved people as long as you don’t overfly them, that's good enough for me.
Defo. This is the next target market spot for DJI to focus on as it would benefit all of Europe :)
Oh my god.The CAA have messed it up again. I am shaking my head in disbelief.😤
I suspect that it's not the CAA but a political diktat from the SofS for Transport.
So waht additional "safety features" does a C1 rating give the drone ?
- Under 900g in maximum take-off mass, or are made and perform in a way that if they collide with a person, the energy transmitted will be less than 80 Joules;
- They have a maximum speed of 19m/s (approx. 42.5 mph);
- They are designed and constructed so as to minimise injury to people;
- The standards also cover other aspects such as noise limits, height limits and requirements for remote identification and geo-awareness systems.
To be honest I'm surprised the classic was even C1 makes s mockery out of mini3pro owners
Same.
To a certain degree it really should've been expected. Since Brexit, you now have 2 sovereign states and even tho the regulations were agreed upon in principle by all EU states (when the UK was a part of the EU), the UK/EU divorce wasn't amicable so it's inderstandable that no government wants to be a party of the other. But, it's the little man that is screwed over, the answer might be as simple as petitioning the CAA and DfT but we are the ones who pay in the end
Fair point, but the EASA-based rules specifically allowed individual countries to add their own additional restrictions and changes. The don't have to ignore the C marks.... just extend the Transition period and change the rules when they have a viable alternative.
@@IaninLondon but that's logical. And when has a government or government department ever been logical
UK could still have adopted them if they wanted - it's like NZ make use of CE approval for medical products rather than redo the conformance process themselves.
It appears they have just copy/pasted big chunks of legislation over, but someone didn't proofread it properly and there are now several contradictions. I think they have realised this and are now backtracking to clean it up.
@@brian7android985 They had no choice but to just copy paste the EU legislation. To change it they have to understand all its implications then decided what they want to change. Changing regulations takes time in parliament unless you want the government to make law with out the involvement of MPs.
Lets imagine that there is a EU regulation that states that the blades used on drones should be made with a certain material, with certain properties and testing. What new materials should be allowed, how should the properties and testing change.
The government is currently legislating to remove all the copy pasted EU regulations without looking to see what the implications of there removal all. It could be that in two years there will be know regulations about many products.
They should at least allow C1 Classification to be used for the same time as the extended transitional period for fairness. Currently we can fly the C1 Class drone in the A1 category until January 2023, but we can fly the transitional period till 2026, not fair at all
Just backed my finger away from the BUY button - phew!!
I completely agree with your disappointment! I still believe that if the agencies that control the sky don't make money, they are not interested in hobbyists flying drones. So sad.
Shame, I was personally looking forward to the 5 meter rule for A2 License holders, but looks like that's gone for a burton as well now 🤷♂️
Do I need the A2 CofC with the Mavic 3 classic even if I'm only going to use it in the countryside etc? I don't have any plans to use it I'm a congested area so I wanted to double check first. Thanks 👍🏻
Nope; open country means no A2COFC needed. 👍🏻
@@IaninLondon Thanks Ian
I can't really afford a Mavic 3 Classic right now, so I'm selfishly a bit relieved that my A2 Transitional permissions as an A2 CofC holder and also a sub-250g drone are still the best I can do for the time being. Sorry to everybody who has been let down by this announcement though!
I'm not telling anyone to break the law but when it's this stupid I can see why people don't listen
I can't afford the Mavic 3 classic, so will stick with my Mini 2 that is allowed to fly pretty much anywhere!
Spot on :)
Thanks for the information! I’ve literally just upgraded from the mini 3 pro to the Mavic 3 classic 😂 but, the a2 licence is still giving us an extra 100m reduced distance, so it’s not all lost. We can hope that they will pull their heads out of their arses and change the rules for something they no nothing about, to what will benefit people that use these drones daily.
As I commented on Sean’s video it’s an absolute farce, extend the transitional but retain the class markings until the new regulations are agreed whether that be mtom or other the update at the end of November better bring better news this debacle yet again will lead to more illegal flying resulting in further limitations for those trying to follow the legislation.
Spot on.....
Does this apply to dji air 2s? You'll be only to fly it in countryside areas only??
Yes, although that's already the case as the Air2S doesn't have a C1 rating.
Well said Ian mate and great video.
This to me is a funny option that CAA has decided to do. We as drone pilots respect everything we do, and stand by what we are told by CAA and fly safe.
Now, lets look at our ground level, death traps we call Cars, motorbikes. These are driven by UNLICENCED drivers, or driven by car thief's that kill on the roads and our Police take chase etc..
We in the Air are just enjoying what we do as a hobby and should not in any shape or form have to be pushed out of a door after sitting tests to fly and fly with caution.
Again, our ground Police are chasing killer drivers daily and many in prison... God, I could go on about this but better not.
True points Rich. Frustrating ain't it....😖
believe me, if dji was american company, there will be a lot less bs about this.
To be fair stealing cars is, er, discouraged, legally speaking :) , and drivers are meant to get licenses. Again not doing so is law-breaking. But that works because of the balance of penalty to benefit from having a license.
For drone users it seems the CAA are attempting to wipe out any benefit from having the proper paperwork, which can't help encourage responsible flying.
Plus the long term problem that - if the CAA start tweaking regulations so our relatively insignificantly little island has unique ones - the divergence will discourage new products from coming here at all - and certainly not quickly. Or perhaps we'll end up with scenarios like the European region (including UK) Mavic 3 Pro being deprived of the meatier battery.
Plus I really don't like the impression given that these rules are being tweaked with for the sake of divergence - agencies asked to create different rules from the EU to justify Brexit. Whatever your views on that, this seems an area of law that works better when it covers a larger area (perhaps, if we sort that out, our paperwork could work in the EU again...)
Sorry, missed your little reply... Could you type again Please.
You didn't mention the Article 16 authorisation.
As you say, Ian, a very disappointing chain of events. It would be wonderful if people who make laws could use common sense and reasoned thought in making their decisions. Cheers from Wisconsin
Common sense and reasoned thought are not in fashion at the moment , sorry.
If more people used common sense and reasoned thought, there wouldn't be the need for so much regulation in the first place. It's easy to see these things only from only one point of view, eg as a drone pilot, but there are others that are equally as valid. If you think it's easy to just come up with new laws, go to a law library and look at a few statutes to see how complicated they are. Highly qualified lawyers spend a lot of time on the wording of statutes, trying to make them precise, so there aren't any loopholes and they don't contradict existing laws.
@@another3997 Plus they will have various national security issues regarding rouge drones that they can't discuss , must be complicated.
madness indeed, i may still get the M3 Classic, as I fly mostly away from people and homes; will keep the Mini 2 for the town stuff.
Maybe it's the DoT, not CAA, who have decided this ☹
Anyone suspect interference from people who don’t like the transparency drones bring ?
Police perhaps 😂
Does 50m include people behind walls/windows? As in inside a building.
Generally no, as they're protected
Firstly I agree that the information is confusing and the CAA appear to be back tracking. However, as a mini 2 pilot that flies when his drone App is not offering Land only 😭😭, I think the move away from heavier drones over and above members of the public is perhaps not a bad thing. The mini 2 and mini 3 are more than capable drones tbh and will do anything and everything that the plus 250g drones will do. I am sure in the future the CAA will start to put restrictions on the sub 250 gram drones 😔😔 And this is more likely to happen when you have drone fliers like DJ Audits winding up businesses with their "I am gonna fly over the top of your business and there is nothing that you can do about it" attitude 😠😠 This will signal the end for people like me that live in a residential area.
That’s not true.. there’s a huge difference between the mini series and the mavic series with how capable they are
I said the same to DJ Audits himself, will be folks like him that will be responsible for any further restrictions that come to sub 250g drones.
dude, you cant compare the mini 3 pro camera to a air 2s or mavic 3/classic camera, especially the mavic 3. i do photos and the mini 3 with it's tiny sensor is awful in certain situations
@@TravelByRail I think as far as image and video comparison goes you have got to have a keen eye to spot the difference between these drones. They all have roughly the same flying time. The main difference is the obstacle avoidance. But I would say that if you require avoidance then you are not putting enough distance between yourself and objects. Probably fair to say that 99.9 percent of drone video is recorded between 50 and 120 metres where you don't need it. I completely understand where people have invested money to then hear this news. But I would say the bigger and heavier the drone the more restricted it should. I understand that won't be a popular comment 👍👍
@@wacman completely agree. The guy is an absolute menace. There is another guy that does a similar thing flying over police stations and prisons. It really annoys me. 😠😠
the rug has well and truly been pulled
Ian, I fly PPL at Manchester Barton. I also enjoy flying my drone. The CAA cannot control drones because they can be purchased by anybody from Currys PC World, Argos, and many other retailers who only want to make a sale. Many of these buyers will not be interested in learning what they can and can't do or studying and passing a drone qualification. The irresponsible always want a free ride and are not bothered if they wreck it for others. The CAA will know this.
Hi Ian, great video as ever. I've been reading about Article 16, not fully au fait with it, but how will it be affected by the CAA announcement?
It won't be as far as I can tell, as Article 16 hangs on the weight, not C classifications. 👍🏻
Well slightly glad I did my A2 CoC because it looked like it was gonna be pointless. I'm just glad I hadn't pulled the trigger on the M3C which I was about to do. Do we ever get a break in this country? 2 years of C rating this and that and then this! bloody infuriating! I will stick with my Air2 S, mini 2 and Parrot anafi for a while longer
@ChriS CarLyLe
With A2 CofC you can fly in a built up area but must keep the 50m separation distance from uninvolved people horizontally with say the mavic 3, with a sub 500g drone you can fly with no separation just not deliberately over uninvolved people. Having said that article 16 flying as a member of a club like FPVUK gives more freedoms than this however no commercial flying, no automated flight and do a quick risk assessment check out the differences for A2 COC and Artical 16
Ian has an excellent video that explains it much better than I can
What program is this?
It's a joke and will lead to more people bending the rules
Thanks Ian
So in a couple of years the the powers that be will change the rules yet again. To much uncertainty
Rules are there to be broken
I'm increasingly inclined to agree. Especially seeing the behaviour of some of the law makers and the shambles that is Brexit.
So are your legs, if your flights result in even more regulations for us law-abiding pilots 🤣
@@El_Smeghead I’m law abiding and I don’t have legs I’m in a wheelchair ♿️
@@ianlivermore2981 Then your spokes are there to be broken.
@@El_Smeghead no spokes it’s a solid wheel. I’d be fucked if you let me tyres down tho 😕
Sorry to hear the new ruling Ian. Hopefully things will change to the better again in the next couple of years. Cheers.
Oh, things will change next week probably the way they work...... CHeers Bob!
Looks like I'll stick with my aging Mavic Pro then
Me too. Next drone, if I bother, will have to be a sub 250g jobby.
I am registered with the CAA but I have to find out about this from you. Its about time the CAA took their thumbs out of their arses and got this all sorted. They should notify registered users of changes with their over priced computers they purchased with our registration fees.
Every time they fart, it makes their ears ring.
Personally, I have invested in a new business venture that ideally requires the better camera the Mavic series offers. But, more fool me. Yes I have the A2COFc that was part of the plan, but as a forward-thinking person, I sadly believed that the UK would try and at least attempt to benefit society from Brexit and encourage growth aspiration. How wrong that thinking is. Procrastination and lack of faith in new technologies seem to be the way we are these days. Overall, the country seems mired in UTurns, indecision and buck-passing. For some this is a wonderful benefit of Brexit, stop new businesses from emerging so the old guard stays richer. Make the swimming pool smaller so small old fish are bigger and more powerful in a tiny pond. Never mind the loss of business, staffing and security benefits. Stand tall and isolated, buck the trend, ignore the science and keep down people trying to grow into a bigger better more modern space.
Perhaps we should have barriers to the wider internet as well so we can't see too much of the world. Maybe like horses being trotted down the road we should all be happy with blinkers on.
Fine... lets all of us be happy watching the rest of world move forward and advance itself. After all, they need a head start! Our aging society is just getting warmed up and will soon catch those whippersnappers!
Does the mini 3 have a C rating….. If not do you suggest waiting until a mini drone arrives with a C rating to support flying in UK and Europe
No, the Mini 3 does not have a C rating but this is pretty irrelevant in the UK.
@@IaninLondon what about flying in Europe ? Will it have a retrospective rating applied ?
I think the CAA have an agenda somewhere and there preference is not to own a drone at all. So by continually changing the goal posts it allows a form of stalemate to exist. Its a typically British mess. All the best Ian. M