Nice Video Scruf! Sorry you had a issue with the fit. We have only heard of a few times where this has happened. We think the cause is during manufacturing after boring the galley hole for the Barbell in hundreds from blocks the bit get worn and the hole is a little smaller on a few blocks just before they change the bit. The main goal with our barbell is to keep unfiltered oil out of the bearings and lifters that is why the close tolerance fit. Our latest Barbells are .0005" smaller to help with this issue but we don't want to go any smaller for only a very few blocks that have this issue and defeat the goal of keeping unfiltered oil out. For the customer that run into this issue we don't recommend drilling the block. Instead we recommend cutting the head off of a 1/4-20 bolt, chucking it in a drill, screw barbell on and while running the drill use fine sand paper and take the barbell down until it fits. You will barely have to take it down so don't over do it. Hope this helps! Thank you, Christian SacCityCorvette
Tolerances are tight but here are two methods with a 5/8th drill. To remove a possible burr, but more so, just a thin gummy layer of old oil. #1. Use a “Flex-Stone home of 3/4” or next size down. These are high carbon twisted steel with silicon carbide balls formed on the ends of hundreds of non-breakable nylon type bristles. These where sold on a SnapOn truck for iron wheel cyclinders. Sold up to at least 4” diameter. #2 Green Scotch-Bright sheets can be cut in half to make a long but shorter sheet. A wire coat hanger folded over and crimped at the fold over the sheet in a vise or just a hammer. Chuck this in a drill motor and run this in the cavity 3 - 3 times, stop, clean and check fit. These are a few tricks learn over 35 years as an ASE Master Tech. I bought the “Bar Bell” from Sac City Corvette and found a little gummed up oil delivery cavity. Cleaned then fit nice and tight. Took 20 minutes to hone, clean and install this wonderful device. I did not change the anti-bleed back check valve as I am not running high RPM’s or high volume oil pump. A stock pump with tight bearing clearances will produce higher oil pressure.
I'm in the OEM automotive field. I agree with Christians comment. It's far more likely the bore diameter is on the small side and/or has burrs than the barbell being on the large side. Likely the block is in SPEC. But that spec is for a loose fitting plastic barbell.. not a precision machined one that's meant to close the gap. Scruf, the fitment you had there is very close to what you want. This is an old vid.. but in a case like this remove just enough material where you can *lightly* tap it in. To remove you'd use a long drift from the other end. In the end... a snug fit is what you want! Here is some reading on different types of fits www.engineersedge.com/mechanical,045tolerances/preffered-mechanical-tolerances.htm
I agree. Given the choice, I really prefer to spend my money with smaller, niche specific companies. When you call, you actually get to talk to the guy the designed the product. They care about every customer and every installation. It really makes a difference.
We don't recommend drilling the block! It is very rare for our barbell to be to tight. Texas speed buys 200 at a time from us, if there was a fitment issue we would have heard from them, along with all The LS engine builders like WS6Store that buy quantities from us. We are the original designers/inventors of the billet Barbell all others are cheap copycats. If it is tight follow the instructions. This is what they say. SacCityCorvette’s Billet Barbell Installation: NON O-ring end of Barbell goes into engine, O-ring faces rear of engine! Because the Barbell is such a precision fit, we test fit every Barbell in a jig that is exactly the size of the oil port in the engine. It is very rare, but there is the possibility that your new Barbell may be too tight upon test fitting. We believe that during manufacturing with some engines the drill bit drilling the oil port was worn and ready to be changed out. Maybe that is another reason GM makes the factory Barbell so loose. Because it is so rare to have this issue, we will not make our Barbell smaller to accommodate the issue of a very few and defeat the purpose of our Barbells goal of keeping unfiltered oil out of your bearings. If you encounter a Barbell that is too tight upon installation, we recommend cutting the head off a 1/4-20 bolt and putting it in a drill and screw the Barbell on to it, then use it to lightly sand the Barbell with fine sand paper until it fits properly. Only sand the end without the O-ring! Only a very small amount of sanding should be necessary. Lube O-Ring before installing and the non-O-Ring end of Barbell goes in first toward front of engine! Please contact SacCityCorvette if you have any questions. Sales@saccitycorvette.com or call/text (916) 968-4451 Thank you, Christian
In the 80's the SnapOn truck had a hone-type tool I've never seen before. It was called a "Flex-Stone" hone and sold from 1/2" up to 4 inches for bores in wheel cylinders to block cylinders for that nice cross-hatch to help seal rings. McMaster-Carr sells them now. With replacing certain sizes multiple time and becoming more expensive, I decided to make something to get by. A mild steel rod drilled on the side, with a two holes the thickness of my air cut-off tool. By connecting the two holes with a slot, I could pull a cut piece of "Scotch-Brite" to an equal length, hold while chucked in a drill motor and wind it up. With its new reduced outside diameter to fit the "Hole of the Day" I could hone it with Red, Green or Gray. Need a tighter fit to remove more material (By the thousandths) if controlled, work great. People forget that even with gray nodular iron blocks or aluminum, combined with todays "Green Crap" ( Sorry snow-flakes / I blame climate change on 1,000 years of Buffalo Farts), but it is still a requirement to bottle brush, carb spray and apply compressed air into every oil gallery period. This makes one more enlightened on the path your oil takes. Every engine is different but similar. Yes, this bar-bell from Sac City Corvette fits tight, but there are 3 holes drilled into the horizontal oil pump feed. 1 into the filter, filter oil out, but also that long angled one that feeds 2 sides of the cam going into lifter bores. My bet is a brown film of old oil built up inside this gallery. Either way, you showed us how, each can-be different reasons. But with understanding of the oil path, that can allow micron-sized particles to pass the filter and enter the roller lifters...Well, you know. I like it. I got mine! Thanks Scruff. ASE Master Tech-Retired
I used the billet barbell in a stroker LS1 I built and it snapped right in. I got it from Sac City as well. It's definitely worth the $27 if you are building a nice piece. Their front/rear cover install tools are great too!
I had a custom LS3 built for my vette..... they installed this plug backwards.. caused all sorts of oil psi fluctuation at higher RPM... what a PITA to find... randomly caught it after upgrading this barbell during a clutch swap :(
Buddy bought a car cheap, but it would always overheat, tried to replace the freeze plugs, some idiot had installed a new plug over an existing one. Limiting coolant flow
Never used this or heard of this until a buddy of mine used one on his ls1 build. Been using the stock plastic one and made some pretty insane power for years and never had an issue lol built my 408 nitrous motor makes 1100+ on a 450 shot used stock barbell
wow, a 450 shot is no joke, haha. I bet that's a fun ride. Agreed, the barbell isn't going to make the engine hold any more hp. It's just a small upgrade that's available for the oiling system. You should replace the barbell during a rebuild; the billet version just has tighter tolerances than the stock plastic unit. It might be more beneficial for a road race motor that sees sustained high rpm (high oil pressure) conditions for 20-30 mins at a time, vs a drag race motor that sees WOT for 10 secs at a time. (or maybe less than that if you've got 1100hp, haha). No wrong way to do it; just sharing options.
This is a very common issue and I feel your pain. Mine did the same thing as yours and when I pulled it out it was bent and not sealing properly. If it's hard to push in it's going to bend it. I had to try 3 different ones to finally get one that fit properly. The quality is so cheap on those billet ones they are all different sizes. Honestly the plastic one works better and seals tighter. The double o-ring ones always cut the o-ring going past the sharp edges.
Our shop has been building LS engines for years and we have always used new replacement plastic ones and have never had an issue. This looks like a major waste of time to me. Good job for sticking with it though!
El motor 3.6 chevrolet ,trajo un problema de fabrica que muchos mecanicos no encuentran el problema nunca y cambian cadenas vvt guias tensores y el problema sigue,y es que esa valvula de control de precion se llena de costra ya que el agujero es muy pequeño, y si no se le da el mantenimiento cada 3meses sin fallar uso medio y cada 2 meses uso largo, se aruina por costra, pero hay una solucion que no esta escrita ni la recomiendan los mecanicos ,pero les digo que yo lo aprendi hace mas de 30 años y es que cuando hay costra en el motor , y no hay mucho dinero para reparacion profunda , con tan solo 1q de haceite de trasmicion las posibilidades de limpiar todo los agujeros es de mas del 70% solo que cuando lo agas no puedes correr el motor por mas de 2 dias solo 1 dia y cambiar el haceite y tendras que gastar 1q adicional para que cuando estes baciando el carter le heches el nuebo q para que bacie bien y luego le cambias filtro y haceite nuebo y listo eso limpiara los vvt los elevadores o listher la bomba de haceite y esa valvula que tanto se atapona y hace que la lubrucaciin no lleque en en arranque y suene como matraca, gracias.
That's odd..I just bought one, as well as the front plug that replaces the press fit in front, and didn't have any issues with it going in. I hope it was worth the money! The way I figured, it's one less piece that is plastic in my motor!
Yea, it seems my motor was the "odd ball" that the barbell didn't fit into smoothly. I've not had any issues after installation though. I've got excellent oil pressure both hot and cold. No complaints.
Instructions on my barbell says to lightly sand the galley 1/4-20th just to get the clearance. Thanks for uploading. I had the same issue with it not fitting initially.
Mine usually fit perfect. However, I've learned when installing them, including cheap barbells from Ebay all you budge builders, that the blocks need to be CLEAN CLEAN!!! During install it helps to lube the barbell, especially the oring, with a small amount with assembly lube. Using a small rat tail file will help to remove the burrs from inside, then compressed air to help remove them, followed by a small rag soaked with carb cleaner or Brakekleen, then forced through the galley (front to back) with a wooden or steel rod, will help to remove any oil sludge or metal particles that could cause it to bind. Finally, I've seen deposits of burn oil get stuck in the galley of a motor that was over heated. This may take some effort to remove as its usually hard. (Carbon)... Soaking with a large amount of carb cleaner and using a long thin pipe cleaner or very soft long wire brush with parts cleaner or carb clean can help to remove these deposits.. If using a wire brush, follow up with the rag again, to remove any wire bristles that break off. Its still metal in the motor and will do harm if it gets to the right spot... Taking an extra 5mins to clean the stuff now, will help save your motor on 1st startup. I've found that's when most bearing damage occurs... A clean motor is a happy motor. Unless its an old Mopar... (Just kidding... Keep'em clean) **** A previous reply says about using a flex hone. This will work too. Just be sure to clean the particles out after ****
Would it not have been better to remove the material from the barbell in a controlled way to prevent the potential of ANY shaving to migrate into the oil system????
The challenge to sliding the barbell in was the variances in the engine block oil galley from the manufacturing/machining process. While turning down the barbell might have helped it slide in a little easier, it would open up the clearances once in position, and the benefit of this barbell is that the tighter clearances don't allow oil to seep by.
I guess the issue lies in the barbells design, A) the material used should have been harder than the cast block to prevent material peeling from it on insertion B) it should have had a chamfer to help it "ease" into the hole I'll make mine from Stainless, thanks for the insight. PS I have a hard time believing the original plastic barbell had tolerances tighter then .001 on the end or that the occasional "girt" in the oil of this size would kill the bearings outright
I don't think simply making the barbell from a harder material or adding a chamfer is the solution. The plastic barbell obviously is made to much looser tolerances (and thus could allow some unfiltered oil to seep past). Making a precision machined barbell to very tight tolerances means that the hole it's going into also has to have the same tight tolerances. As some people have commented, their barbell slide right in, while mine put up a fight. So the variance appears to be in the factory machining of the block when they drill the oil filter passages into the main oil galley run. But in the grand scheme of things, I don't think this is the sort of thing that will make or break your engine build, even if you use the plastic unit. You should replace the old one either way, and the billet version is only a few bucks more, so I think it's worth it. But if you have fitment problems, then using a new plastic version would be ok too.
The idea is not to peel any material off. The idea is to have a nice fit with minimal clearance. Stainless would only add weight. Factory barbell is loose so they don't have to worry about clearance problem when making thousands of engines. Thanks Christian SacCityCorvette
I haven't looked at the one from Improved Racing (it wasn't available at the time I did mine). But I've used several items from Improved Racing and they are all top notch, so I'm sure their barbell is excellent too.
Sorry to hear that. sounds like it's a fairly rare occurrence but may be an issue from time to time depending on factory machining variances. Knowing what I know now, the time to inspect this passage would be before starting engine assembly... but hindsight is 20/20. Have you gotten this installed yet? did it go ok?
As I said in my other reply, We don't recommend drilling the block! It is very rare for our barbell to be to tight. Texas speed buys 200 at a time from us, if there was a fitment issue we would have heard from them, along with all The LS engine builders like WS6Store that buy quantities from us. We are the original designers/inventors of the billet Barbell all others are cheap copycats. If it is tight follow the instructions. This is what they say. SacCityCorvette’s Billet Barbell Installation: NON O-ring end of Barbell goes into engine, O-ring faces rear of engine! Because the Barbell is such a precision fit, we test fit every Barbell in a jig that is exactly the size of the oil port in the engine. It is very rare, but there is the possibility that your new Barbell may be too tight upon test fitting. We believe that during manufacturing with some engines the drill bit drilling the oil port was worn and ready to be changed out. Maybe that is another reason GM makes the factory Barbell so loose. Because it is so rare to have this issue, we will not make our Barbell smaller to accommodate the issue of a very few and defeat the purpose of our Barbells goal of keeping unfiltered oil out of your bearings. If you encounter a Barbell that is too tight upon installation, we recommend cutting the head off a 1/4-20 bolt and putting it in a drill and screw the Barbell on to it, then use it to lightly sand the Barbell with fine sand paper until it fits properly. Only sand the end without the O-ring! Only a very small amount of sanding should be necessary. Lube O-Ring before installing and the non-O-Ring end of Barbell goes in first toward front of engine! Please contact SacCityCorvette if you have any questions. Sales@saccitycorvette.com or call/text (916) 968-4451
SacCity has a nice explanation of their design. (www.saccitycorvette.com/Billet-BarBell.html) But a quick overview... the barball is what diverts oil coming from the oil pump down into the oil filter. The plastic factory barbell is around 0.020" smaller than the oil gallery, vs the SacCity billet barbell which is machined to .001" smaller than the gallery, so it is a much tighter fit and allows less unfiltered oil to bypass the oil filter and go to the rest of the engine. The factory barbell is plastic, so you should replace it during a rebuild. So the billet barbell is really just a few dollars more for a better piece.
Mason Campos The stock one is plastic so you should be able to pry it out with a pick. The stock one is single use, so it doesn’t matter if you damage it.
I build tons of Ls. Fit means nothing . Its better if dog bone is looser at the business end as the stock unit is, will allow a bit of flow as filter looses flow . I sand the diameter down to get a slip for. All oil filters and oil pump bypass any ways while engine is running !
Quality control should catch that oversized issue, They probably do not mic the valve part To bulk ratio enough times . shame on the manufacture. wouldn’t use a drill bit , perhaps a ream would be better, and do you think this upgrade is rally worth it.
Honestly I think the variance is probably more in the machining of the engine block, and less on the barbell. But overall, Yes i think it's a worth while upgrade. If you're rebuilding the engine, you'll probably want to replace the OE plastic barbell anyways, so this unit is probably slightly better and really isn't very expensive. I'd call it a "nice to have" vs mandatory.
In general, no. I suppose if you had a lot of oil pressure bleeding past the stock plastic barbell, then it might help. But I think that would be fairly rare.
The barbell is not a spring, but rather is at the back of the block to direct oil down into the filter and then up into the cylinder head. If you are referring to the bypass spring in the oil pump, then yes that would only impact high oil pressure not idle pressure. Basically when the oil pressure gets high enough, it's pushing on the spring hard enough to begin to open the bypass in the oil pump. The only way the spring would impact oil pressure at idle is if the bypass was stuck in the open position and was bleeding off oil pressure.
can a clog or defect in the barbell cause low oil pressure? as in dropping to 5 psi, rising with rpm but will drop with a hold at 3000 rpm, and will only rise to around 25 psi before dropping. brand new 5.3 all new internals..
First make sure your oil pressure gauge is accurate. It's very unlikely that the factory (or aftermarket) barbell would fail. Especially enough to bleed that much oil pressure. Did you install a new oil pump? There's a small chance the oil pump bypass could be stuck partially open. Are there any miles on the motor? In a mustang I had, I lost oil pressure in a new motor after 1500 miles. Turned out the machine shop that built the bottom end didn't set the clearances on the main bearings correctly and it destroyed all the mains. Hopefully yours won't be that serious. If you have some miles on the motor, it would be worth cutting open the oil filter and seeing if there is any debris in there.
It would be extremely unlikely for the barbell to go bad, even the stock plastic one. If you left it out during a rebuild then yes it could cause low oil pressure (the oil would be bypassing the filter). But on an existing engine, if you’re experiencing low oil pressure, it’s most likely something else.
The stock one is plastic so you can hook it with a pick. Even if you aren't upgrading to the billet version, you should install a new barbell. So you don't have to worry about damaging the old one.
There is always 3 assholes who dislike a video if you don't like it don't watch it! Thanks for the help man! Great video! eBay actually lead me here. I will install mine this weekend!
Ugh, not yet. Motor is back in the car, and I just finished installing the torque tube late last night. So I'm inching closer to finally firing this thing up. I don't anticipate being able to pinpoint an appreciable change just from the barbell (I've changed so many things during the build). Rather it's just one more component that offers a small improvement and for a very reasonable price.
Scruf's Garage I appreciate your tutorials and quick response. I'm putting together my LS1 for my Trans Am and any new knowledge that I can acquire and digest is really helpful. I too was thinking about the barbell and your video is very insightful. I also plan on purchasing a magnafilter cover for the oil filter. So I can have additional protection for the oil. Other oiling upgrades I plan on doing are the Improved Racing F-body racing oil pan baffles, crank scrapper and windage tray kit. To keep the oil pump fed and to cut down on the cranks reciprocating mass. #lessweight=quickerresponse
The barbell is for any of the LS motor, regardless of the oil pan. But for my specific application, the motor is an LS1 from a C5 Corvette, so it has the "batwing" oil pan.
Why do people go out of their way to create problems for themselves. The factory piece will last longer than the engine. It is foolish to "upgrade" it. I have rebuilt dozens, if not a hundred LS engines and have never seen a single issue with the factory piece. My advice, leave it alone and worry about something that really matters.
@Kenneth Jones It's not about the piece breaking, the upgraded piece has less clearance allowing less unfiltered oil past it back into the engine. Someone who has built hundreds of LS engines would know this.
Young man you don't have a clue what you're talking about and you obviously haven't built alot to say that I've been building engines when you was still in your daddy's nut sack I can tell you right now I live and breath this stuff I work 7days a week most of the time building nothing but engines and out of the ones I have rebuilt about 30 percent of them the factory barbell was cracked and messed all up.
Based on the feedback from others, it seems the fitment issue I experience was unique. If rebuilding your engine, you should replace the old plastic barbell. You can get a new plastic OE one, or the one from SacCity. Completely up to you; no wrong answer.
It is not a load bearing part why does it have to be stronger? This does nothing to improve how the engine works. This is designed to make your wallet lighter!
The benefit of the barbell isn't that it is stronger, but rather that it is machined to higher tolerances. Tighter clearances to the oil galley bore reduces any oil seepage past the barbell (which would be unfiltered oil). The stronger material allows the shaft to be thinner, which would be a slight reduction in oil flow restriction, since the oil has to flow around the shaft. During a rebuild, the stock plastic barbell should be replaced anyways, so this unit is really only a few dollars more.
Nice Video Scruf! Sorry you had a issue with the fit. We have only heard of a few times where this has happened. We think the cause is during manufacturing after boring the galley hole for the Barbell in hundreds from blocks the bit get worn and the hole is a little smaller on a few blocks just before they change the bit. The main goal with our barbell is to keep unfiltered oil out of the bearings and lifters that is why the close tolerance fit. Our latest Barbells are .0005" smaller to help with this issue but we don't want to go any smaller for only a very few blocks that have this issue and defeat the goal of keeping unfiltered oil out. For the customer that run into this issue we don't recommend drilling the block. Instead we recommend cutting the head off of a 1/4-20 bolt, chucking it in a drill, screw barbell on and while running the drill use fine sand paper and take the barbell down until it fits. You will barely have to take it down so don't over do it.
Hope this helps!
Thank you,
Christian
SacCityCorvette
Tolerances are tight but here are two methods with a 5/8th drill.
To remove a possible burr, but more so, just a thin gummy layer of old oil.
#1. Use a “Flex-Stone home of 3/4” or next size down. These are high carbon twisted steel with silicon carbide balls formed on the ends of hundreds of non-breakable nylon type bristles. These where sold on a SnapOn truck for iron wheel cyclinders. Sold up to at least 4” diameter.
#2 Green Scotch-Bright sheets can be cut in half to make a long but shorter sheet. A wire coat hanger folded over and crimped at the fold over the sheet in a vise or just a hammer. Chuck this in a drill motor and run this in the cavity 3 - 3 times, stop, clean and check fit.
These are a few tricks learn over 35 years as an ASE Master Tech.
I bought the “Bar Bell” from Sac City Corvette and found a little gummed up oil delivery cavity. Cleaned then fit nice and tight. Took 20 minutes to hone, clean and install this wonderful device. I did not change the anti-bleed back check valve as I am not running high RPM’s or high volume oil pump. A stock pump with tight bearing clearances will produce higher oil pressure.
I'm in the OEM automotive field. I agree with Christians comment. It's far more likely the bore diameter is on the small side and/or has burrs than the barbell being on the large side.
Likely the block is in SPEC. But that spec is for a loose fitting plastic barbell.. not a precision machined one that's meant to close the gap.
Scruf, the fitment you had there is very close to what you want. This is an old vid.. but in a case like this remove just enough material where you can *lightly* tap it in. To remove you'd use a long drift from the other end.
In the end... a snug fit is what you want!
Here is some reading on different types of fits www.engineersedge.com/mechanical,045tolerances/preffered-mechanical-tolerances.htm
The note at the end makes me feel much better. Awesome customer service. I have one in my CTSV and it slide right in.
I agree. Given the choice, I really prefer to spend my money with smaller, niche specific companies. When you call, you actually get to talk to the guy the designed the product. They care about every customer and every installation. It really makes a difference.
We don't recommend drilling the block! It is very rare for our barbell to be to tight. Texas speed buys 200 at a time from us, if there was a fitment issue we would have heard from them, along with all The LS engine builders like WS6Store that buy quantities from us. We are the original designers/inventors of the billet Barbell all others are cheap copycats.
If it is tight follow the instructions. This is what they say.
SacCityCorvette’s Billet Barbell Installation: NON O-ring end of Barbell goes into engine, O-ring faces rear of engine! Because the Barbell is such a precision fit, we test fit every Barbell in a jig that is exactly the size of the oil port in the engine. It is very rare, but there is the possibility that your new Barbell may be too tight upon test fitting. We believe that during manufacturing with some engines the drill bit drilling the oil port was worn and ready to be changed out. Maybe that is another reason GM makes the factory Barbell so loose. Because it is so rare to have this issue, we will not make our Barbell smaller to accommodate the issue of a very few and defeat the purpose of our Barbells goal of keeping unfiltered oil out of your bearings. If you encounter a Barbell that is too tight upon installation, we recommend cutting the head off a 1/4-20 bolt and putting it in a drill and screw the Barbell on to it, then use it to lightly sand the Barbell with fine sand paper until it fits properly. Only sand the end without the O-ring! Only a very small amount of sanding should be necessary. Lube O-Ring before installing and the non-O-Ring end of Barbell goes in first toward front of engine!
Please contact SacCityCorvette if you have any questions. Sales@saccitycorvette.com or call/text (916) 968-4451
Thank you,
Christian
In the 80's the SnapOn truck had a hone-type tool I've never seen before. It was called a "Flex-Stone" hone and sold from 1/2" up to 4 inches for bores in wheel cylinders to block cylinders for that nice cross-hatch to help seal rings. McMaster-Carr sells them now. With replacing certain sizes multiple time and becoming more expensive, I decided to make something to get by. A mild steel rod drilled on the side, with a two holes the thickness of my air cut-off tool. By connecting the two holes with a slot, I could pull a cut piece of "Scotch-Brite" to an equal length, hold while chucked in a drill motor and wind it up. With its new reduced outside diameter to fit the "Hole of the Day" I could hone it with Red, Green or Gray. Need a tighter fit to remove more material (By the thousandths) if controlled, work great.
People forget that even with gray nodular iron blocks or aluminum, combined with todays "Green Crap" ( Sorry snow-flakes / I blame climate change on 1,000 years of Buffalo Farts), but it is still a requirement to bottle brush, carb spray and apply compressed air into every oil gallery period. This makes one more enlightened on the path your oil takes. Every engine is different but similar. Yes, this bar-bell from Sac City Corvette fits tight, but there are 3 holes drilled into the horizontal oil pump feed. 1 into the filter, filter oil out, but also that long angled one that feeds 2 sides of the cam going into lifter bores. My bet is a brown film of old oil built up inside this gallery. Either way, you showed us how, each can-be different reasons. But with understanding of the oil path, that can allow micron-sized particles to pass the filter and enter the roller lifters...Well, you know. I like it. I got mine! Thanks Scruff.
ASE Master Tech-Retired
I used the billet barbell in a stroker LS1 I built and it snapped right in. I got it from Sac City as well. It's definitely worth the $27 if you are building a nice piece. Their front/rear cover install tools are great too!
I agree, well made products. Happy to hear yours snapped right in. Thanks for watching!
😊😅0
Don't use a drill...use a reamer! Mic the reamer to ensure size and try that...should get better results without leaving spiral cut marks.
I had a custom LS3 built for my vette..... they installed this plug backwards.. caused all sorts of oil psi fluctuation at higher RPM... what a PITA to find... randomly caught it after upgrading this barbell during a clutch swap :(
Oh man, that does sound like a nightmare issues to try to trouble shoot! Glad a you finally found it!
Buddy bought a car cheap, but it would always overheat, tried to replace the freeze plugs, some idiot had installed a new plug over an existing one. Limiting coolant flow
Never used this or heard of this until a buddy of mine used one on his ls1 build. Been using the stock plastic one and made some pretty insane power for years and never had an issue lol built my 408 nitrous motor makes 1100+ on a 450 shot used stock barbell
wow, a 450 shot is no joke, haha. I bet that's a fun ride. Agreed, the barbell isn't going to make the engine hold any more hp. It's just a small upgrade that's available for the oiling system. You should replace the barbell during a rebuild; the billet version just has tighter tolerances than the stock plastic unit. It might be more beneficial for a road race motor that sees sustained high rpm (high oil pressure) conditions for 20-30 mins at a time, vs a drag race motor that sees WOT for 10 secs at a time. (or maybe less than that if you've got 1100hp, haha). No wrong way to do it; just sharing options.
This is a very common issue and I feel your pain. Mine did the same thing as yours and when I pulled it out it was bent and not sealing properly. If it's hard to push in it's going to bend it. I had to try 3 different ones to finally get one that fit properly. The quality is so cheap on those billet ones they are all different sizes. Honestly the plastic one works better and seals tighter. The double o-ring ones always cut the o-ring going past the sharp edges.
Our shop has been building LS engines for years and we have always used new replacement plastic ones and have never had an issue. This looks like a major waste of time to me.
Good job for sticking with it though!
I just put a barbell in my and had the same problem watched your video to help get it in so a big thanks man.
Awesome! Glad my frustration was able to benefit someone, haha. Just curious, what block/year do you have?
El motor 3.6 chevrolet ,trajo un problema de fabrica que muchos mecanicos no encuentran el problema nunca y cambian cadenas vvt guias tensores y el problema sigue,y es que esa valvula de control de precion se llena de costra ya que el agujero es muy pequeño, y si no se le da el mantenimiento cada 3meses sin fallar uso medio y cada 2 meses uso largo, se aruina por costra, pero hay una solucion que no esta escrita ni la recomiendan los mecanicos ,pero les digo que yo lo aprendi hace mas de 30 años y es que cuando hay costra en el motor , y no hay mucho dinero para reparacion profunda , con tan solo 1q de haceite de trasmicion las posibilidades de limpiar todo los agujeros es de mas del 70% solo que cuando lo agas no puedes correr el motor por mas de 2 dias solo 1 dia y cambiar el haceite y tendras que gastar 1q adicional para que cuando estes baciando el carter le heches el nuebo q para que bacie bien y luego le cambias filtro y haceite nuebo y listo eso limpiara los vvt los elevadores o listher la bomba de haceite y esa valvula que tanto se atapona y hace que la lubrucaciin no lleque en en arranque y suene como matraca, gracias.
I just installed mine And it went in perfect no issues.
That's odd..I just bought one, as well as the front plug that replaces the press fit in front, and didn't have any issues with it going in. I hope it was worth the money! The way I figured, it's one less piece that is plastic in my motor!
Yea, it seems my motor was the "odd ball" that the barbell didn't fit into smoothly. I've not had any issues after installation though. I've got excellent oil pressure both hot and cold. No complaints.
Instructions on my barbell says to lightly sand the galley 1/4-20th just to get the clearance. Thanks for uploading. I had the same issue with it not fitting initially.
Glad I could help! Thanks for watching.
Mine usually fit perfect. However, I've learned when installing them, including cheap barbells from Ebay all you budge builders, that the blocks need to be CLEAN CLEAN!!! During install it helps to lube the barbell, especially the oring, with a small amount with assembly lube. Using a small rat tail file will help to remove the burrs from inside, then compressed air to help remove them, followed by a small rag soaked with carb cleaner or Brakekleen, then forced through the galley (front to back) with a wooden or steel rod, will help to remove any oil sludge or metal particles that could cause it to bind. Finally, I've seen deposits of burn oil get stuck in the galley of a motor that was over heated. This may take some effort to remove as its usually hard. (Carbon)... Soaking with a large amount of carb cleaner and using a long thin pipe cleaner or very soft long wire brush with parts cleaner or carb clean can help to remove these deposits.. If using a wire brush, follow up with the rag again, to remove any wire bristles that break off. Its still metal in the motor and will do harm if it gets to the right spot... Taking an extra 5mins to clean the stuff now, will help save your motor on 1st startup. I've found that's when most bearing damage occurs... A clean motor is a happy motor. Unless its an old Mopar... (Just kidding... Keep'em clean) **** A previous reply says about using a flex hone. This will work too. Just be sure to clean the particles out after ****
I had no issues on a 6.0 Lq4 block. Fit snug. Using their product on an up coming 7.0LSX block
That's great to hear. Definitely a good product. Good luck on your LSX build!
there is no way i am taking a drill bit to an machined oil passage in my block to use an aftermarket part. pass.....
Very good video on basic services for our Corvettes.
I hope your race efforts are working out. (:
Glad the video was helpful. Thanks for watching!
Would it not have been better to remove the material from the barbell in a controlled way to prevent the potential of ANY shaving to migrate into the oil system????
The challenge to sliding the barbell in was the variances in the engine block oil galley from the manufacturing/machining process. While turning down the barbell might have helped it slide in a little easier, it would open up the clearances once in position, and the benefit of this barbell is that the tighter clearances don't allow oil to seep by.
I guess the issue lies in the barbells design,
A) the material used should have been harder than the cast block to prevent material peeling from it on insertion
B) it should have had a chamfer to help it "ease" into the hole
I'll make mine from Stainless, thanks for the insight.
PS I have a hard time believing the original plastic barbell had tolerances tighter then .001 on the end or that the occasional "girt" in the oil of this size would kill the bearings outright
I don't think simply making the barbell from a harder material or adding a chamfer is the solution. The plastic barbell obviously is made to much looser tolerances (and thus could allow some unfiltered oil to seep past). Making a precision machined barbell to very tight tolerances means that the hole it's going into also has to have the same tight tolerances. As some people have commented, their barbell slide right in, while mine put up a fight. So the variance appears to be in the factory machining of the block when they drill the oil filter passages into the main oil galley run. But in the grand scheme of things, I don't think this is the sort of thing that will make or break your engine build, even if you use the plastic unit. You should replace the old one either way, and the billet version is only a few bucks more, so I think it's worth it. But if you have fitment problems, then using a new plastic version would be ok too.
The idea is not to peel any material off. The idea is to have a nice fit with minimal clearance. Stainless would only add weight. Factory barbell is loose so they don't have to worry about clearance problem when making thousands of engines.
Thanks
Christian
SacCityCorvette
Why not use a bar bell with an o-ring at the other end also, so 2 o-rings? That's why I'm going to use the one made by Improved Racing.
I haven't looked at the one from Improved Racing (it wasn't available at the time I did mine). But I've used several items from Improved Racing and they are all top notch, so I'm sure their barbell is excellent too.
Thats why the one with o-rings at both ends i feel is a better option
Its better if they fit as tight as possible. The tightest fit will allow MORE filtered oil into your engine.
Doing my ls3 now and having the same issue with the installation, guess I'm gonna have to use the drill bit also. No happy to do that though.
Sorry to hear that. sounds like it's a fairly rare occurrence but may be an issue from time to time depending on factory machining variances. Knowing what I know now, the time to inspect this passage would be before starting engine assembly... but hindsight is 20/20. Have you gotten this installed yet? did it go ok?
As I said in my other reply, We don't recommend drilling the block! It is very rare for our barbell to be to tight. Texas speed buys 200 at a time from us, if there was a fitment issue we would have heard from them, along with all The LS engine builders like WS6Store that buy quantities from us. We are the original designers/inventors of the billet Barbell all others are cheap copycats.
If it is tight follow the instructions. This is what they say.
SacCityCorvette’s Billet Barbell Installation: NON O-ring end of Barbell goes into engine, O-ring faces rear of engine! Because the Barbell is such a precision fit, we test fit every Barbell in a jig that is exactly the size of the oil port in the engine. It is very rare, but there is the possibility that your new Barbell may be too tight upon test fitting. We believe that during manufacturing with some engines the drill bit drilling the oil port was worn and ready to be changed out. Maybe that is another reason GM makes the factory Barbell so loose. Because it is so rare to have this issue, we will not make our Barbell smaller to accommodate the issue of a very few and defeat the purpose of our Barbells goal of keeping unfiltered oil out of your bearings. If you encounter a Barbell that is too tight upon installation, we recommend cutting the head off a 1/4-20 bolt and putting it in a drill and screw the Barbell on to it, then use it to lightly sand the Barbell with fine sand paper until it fits properly. Only sand the end without the O-ring! Only a very small amount of sanding should be necessary. Lube O-Ring before installing and the non-O-Ring end of Barbell goes in first toward front of engine!
Please contact SacCityCorvette if you have any questions. Sales@saccitycorvette.com or call/text (916) 968-4451
I'm having issues with it also
Is this on all LS'S ? Mind is a 4.8 does t have one ? Thinks guys this is all very helpful to us ALL !!!!!
Yes, should fit all GM gen III and IV LS engines according to SacCity.
Sorry. Old guy, hotroder. I'm just now getting into the LS build/swap.
What's the point of this upgrade?
SacCity has a nice explanation of their design. (www.saccitycorvette.com/Billet-BarBell.html) But a quick overview... the barball is what diverts oil coming from the oil pump down into the oil filter. The plastic factory barbell is around 0.020" smaller than the oil gallery, vs the SacCity billet barbell which is machined to .001" smaller than the gallery, so it is a much tighter fit and allows less unfiltered oil to bypass the oil filter and go to the rest of the engine. The factory barbell is plastic, so you should replace it during a rebuild. So the billet barbell is really just a few dollars more for a better piece.
This may be a dumb question but I'm gonna ask anyway.. How do you get the stock one out?
Mason Campos The stock one is plastic so you should be able to pry it out with a pick. The stock one is single use, so it doesn’t matter if you damage it.
I screwed in a drywall screw though the end of it and used that to pull it out
I build tons of Ls. Fit means nothing . Its better if dog bone is looser at the business end as the stock unit is, will allow a bit of flow as filter looses flow . I sand the diameter down to get a slip for. All oil filters and oil pump bypass any ways while engine is running !
Mine was a snug fit but mine seems to slide right in with little pressure 2003 l59 5.3
I installed one in my LS1 and had on problem!
Mind went rite in the same LS1 !
That’s a Chinesium copy of Sac City Corvette billet barbell, available on eBay for a fraction of the cost of the real one.
Nope, definitely got it from Sac City. I bought a bunch of stuff from them.
Scruf's Garage green o ring is a head give away.
@@petejoseph8257 remember he said in his video that he damaged the original o ring... also it has the original black o ring in the beginning
@@reggieanderson885 And you believe that...
Same problem....mine won't go in at all.....JUNK. ON MY WAY TO GET PLASTIC ORIGINAL.
Quality control should catch that oversized issue, They probably do not mic the valve part To bulk ratio enough times . shame on the manufacture. wouldn’t use a drill bit , perhaps a ream would be better, and do you think this upgrade is rally worth it.
Honestly I think the variance is probably more in the machining of the engine block, and less on the barbell. But overall, Yes i think it's a worth while upgrade. If you're rebuilding the engine, you'll probably want to replace the OE plastic barbell anyways, so this unit is probably slightly better and really isn't very expensive. I'd call it a "nice to have" vs mandatory.
Ok thank you but I would still us a Ream @@ScrufsGarage
great video and very helpful
doing this mod to the engine, does it help with the oil pressure drop?
In general, no. I suppose if you had a lot of oil pressure bleeding past the stock plastic barbell, then it might help. But I think that would be fairly rare.
SEEMS LIKE THAT SPRING AT THE PUMP WOULD ONLY EFFECT HI OIL PRESSURE , NO ? NOT IDLE PRESSURE .
The barbell is not a spring, but rather is at the back of the block to direct oil down into the filter and then up into the cylinder head. If you are referring to the bypass spring in the oil pump, then yes that would only impact high oil pressure not idle pressure. Basically when the oil pressure gets high enough, it's pushing on the spring hard enough to begin to open the bypass in the oil pump. The only way the spring would impact oil pressure at idle is if the bypass was stuck in the open position and was bleeding off oil pressure.
can a clog or defect in the barbell cause low oil pressure? as in dropping to 5 psi, rising with rpm but will drop with a hold at 3000 rpm, and will only rise to around 25 psi before dropping. brand new 5.3 all new internals..
First make sure your oil pressure gauge is accurate. It's very unlikely that the factory (or aftermarket) barbell would fail. Especially enough to bleed that much oil pressure. Did you install a new oil pump? There's a small chance the oil pump bypass could be stuck partially open. Are there any miles on the motor? In a mustang I had, I lost oil pressure in a new motor after 1500 miles. Turned out the machine shop that built the bottom end didn't set the clearances on the main bearings correctly and it destroyed all the mains. Hopefully yours won't be that serious. If you have some miles on the motor, it would be worth cutting open the oil filter and seeing if there is any debris in there.
Does a bad barbell cause low oil pressure?
It would be extremely unlikely for the barbell to go bad, even the stock plastic one. If you left it out during a rebuild then yes it could cause low oil pressure (the oil would be bypassing the filter). But on an existing engine, if you’re experiencing low oil pressure, it’s most likely something else.
How do you get the original one out
The stock one is plastic so you can hook it with a pick. Even if you aren't upgrading to the billet version, you should install a new barbell. So you don't have to worry about damaging the old one.
It's not a galley, it's a gallery
It’s not a gallery, it’s a photo album.
I just assumed all Americans used galley , because you are all fat and love your food and that’s all you can think about … it’s 100% gallery
There is always 3 assholes who dislike a video if you don't like it don't watch it! Thanks for the help man! Great video! eBay actually lead me here. I will install mine this weekend!
Scruf do you have an update on how the barbell performed.
Ugh, not yet. Motor is back in the car, and I just finished installing the torque tube late last night. So I'm inching closer to finally firing this thing up. I don't anticipate being able to pinpoint an appreciable change just from the barbell (I've changed so many things during the build). Rather it's just one more component that offers a small improvement and for a very reasonable price.
Scruf's Garage I appreciate your tutorials and quick response. I'm putting together my LS1 for my Trans Am and any new knowledge that I can acquire and digest is really helpful. I too was thinking about the barbell and your video is very insightful. I also plan on purchasing a magnafilter cover for the oil filter. So I can have additional protection for the oil. Other oiling upgrades I plan on doing are the Improved Racing F-body racing oil pan baffles, crank scrapper and windage tray kit. To keep the oil pump fed and to cut down on the cranks reciprocating mass. #lessweight=quickerresponse
Awesome, I'm glad the video was helpful. sounds like you're headed the right direction on your build. Can't wait to hear how it turns out for you.
Scruf's Garage I'll throw a video when it's all said and done. Keep up the good work.
transam2002ws6; Do the 6.0ltr LS blocks have this Barbell too and Where did you get the Alloy one??
*Gallery
I would have sanded the barbell with emery cloth first
Freeze it next time?
What oil pan Is that for?
The barbell is for any of the LS motor, regardless of the oil pan. But for my specific application, the motor is an LS1 from a C5 Corvette, so it has the "batwing" oil pan.
Just bought a set, I'll see if it sticks. If I don't reply then it didn't stick, LOL.
It slid right into mine
Glad to hear it. That's really what I expected for mine... but did not go down like that tho, haha.
I just bought one
Damn good video man, man what a head fuck to get it in! Good info!
You better have that powerwashed and cleaned by a machine shop.
Why do people go out of their way to create problems for themselves. The factory piece will last longer than the engine. It is foolish to "upgrade" it. I have rebuilt dozens, if not a hundred LS engines and have never seen a single issue with the factory piece. My advice, leave it alone and worry about something that really matters.
Interesting because I've seen several blow up because this plastic piece of crap broke when it got brittle.
The plastic does last longer than better product
@Kenneth Jones It's not about the piece breaking, the upgraded piece has less clearance allowing less unfiltered oil past it back into the engine. Someone who has built hundreds of LS engines would know this.
@89escalade just pulled mine out while doing afm delete kit.pretty brittle and oring was hard as a rock.popped it off and broke into pieces
Young man you don't have a clue what you're talking about and you obviously haven't built alot to say that I've been building engines when you was still in your daddy's nut sack I can tell you right now I live and breath this stuff I work 7days a week most of the time building nothing but engines and out of the ones I have rebuilt about 30 percent of them the factory barbell was cracked and messed all up.
Seems like more of a hassle than what its worth. Prob pass on this.
Based on the feedback from others, it seems the fitment issue I experience was unique. If rebuilding your engine, you should replace the old plastic barbell. You can get a new plastic OE one, or the one from SacCity. Completely up to you; no wrong answer.
It is not a load bearing part why does it have to be stronger? This does nothing to improve how the engine works. This is designed to make your wallet lighter!
The benefit of the barbell isn't that it is stronger, but rather that it is machined to higher tolerances. Tighter clearances to the oil galley bore reduces any oil seepage past the barbell (which would be unfiltered oil). The stronger material allows the shaft to be thinner, which would be a slight reduction in oil flow restriction, since the oil has to flow around the shaft. During a rebuild, the stock plastic barbell should be replaced anyways, so this unit is really only a few dollars more.
buckaroobonsi555 It's not for an increase in power just a little more insurance.