Hi @@runningwithjane! I noticed on your free beginner marathon running plan, you’ve included 2 shake out sessions. What is this exactly? Thanks so much. You’re the best and congrats on Boston! You’re a rockstar! 😊
Thank you Jane for your advice. In May I ran my first marathon. Just a week before the race I saw your video about starting out in a calm pace. This helped me a lot ! This video I learned another new good advice ! My last marathon I ran a lot 2 weeks before the race and maybe not a good idea. Greetings from Sweden ! Take care / Robert
Wow Rob, this makes me so happy to hear. And I'm so happy for YOU accomplishing a big goal and running your first marathon. Lots more greatness to come for you, I'm sure!
I have never been so ready for a taper. Training with speed work is a lot more work causing that fatigue. My legs and joints are tired and ready to heal up.
Thanks for stopping me from running my 75 minute steady taper run at 10K pace. I was thinking of using it to test/confirm my target marathon pace. You persuaded me to trust in the plan and stick to a steady pace. By the way, I've used two different plans for old runners (including Jeff Galloway's plan) and both had 4 week tapers.
That makes sense about the 4-week taper...I could see reasons for justifying it. It's just a month feels SO long! Trust the whole process, including taper...you got this, Nigel!
Running NYC marathon in a month! Hoping to run sub 4, saw your video that I have the base for it and I just ran a 5k and got a personal best of 21:32! Appreciate the tips you bring, they’re very helpful!
Congrats on that 5k time!! That's almost exactly my 5k time and I've run a 3:33 (3:37 on a tougher course that might be similar to NYC), so you are in a VERY good spot to go sub-4 and then some assuming you've had a good training cycle! Best of luck as you wrap up peak weeks and taper...please check in after and let me know how it goes if I don't hear from you sooner!
thanks on the advice. i am running my first 50k trail race on October 1st. slightly longer then a marathon but same strategy. I did my first 42 marathon last weekend, it was on my own, a non event, just self test and it very well . so i went ahead and doing the 50k trail now, yes the tapering does work and makes sense. thanks on sharing.
Really normal - lots of runners say this. Just try to keep up the fueling (carbs!), hydration and get lots of rest...and visualize success on race day to stay positive. You got this!
Oh gosh yes!! I would say I hear this from at least half of my athletes!! Usually turns out to be nothing...not likely you'd get hurt reducing mileage and speed. Truly think some of it is nerves and the other part is real recovering happening that you feel. Have an awesome race!!
Thanks, Jane. I appreciate your informative and encouraging videos. I'm one week away from my first marathon(Fort Collins, CO). My plan has a 4 week taper, and it has felt like a long time getting to race day!
Well, the weather was great, and the course is beautiful! I really thought I could go sub-4. First half in 1:56, and 20 miles at 3:00. Then I hit the wall at mile 21 and finished in 4:22. 😳 Planning to work on 5K/10K/half over the next few months and then maybe Salt Lake Marathon April 2023 for attempt #2.
Great timing and explained so well. Doing the Melbourne marathon next week and it’s my first so very nervous. Have been guilty this week of trying to add mileage because I missed some runs so I’ll stop that haha. Thank you Jane.
@@runningwithjane Hey Jane, completed my first marathon today in 4.08. Very happy with that. Thank you for your awesome advice in your videos it definitely helped.
Thanks for all the great advice! But I think you mean reduce down to 85/90%, not by 85/90% (which would mean you'd be doing 10-15% of your usual volume) Same for subsequent weeks. :)
Oh dang! YouTubing is hard sometimes. 😆 The descriptions are at least written correctly (85-90% OF peak week mileage) so hopefully it's clear enough. 😬 And you're welcome - thanks for watching!
Excellent video, Jane!🤓I always learn lots of new ideas from your videos, or sometimes other ways to look at things that are different from what I am used to or have used for a long time, so thank you for that! I also just finished reading your half marathon blog series on your website, again just full of all kinds of useful nuggets of knowledge, thank you! Hope your training is going well🤓 Cheers, Scott
Hey Scott! Oh that makes me so happy to hear the half marathon blog series has been helpful! Trying to get more content added, too. Any questions in particular about this distance you'd love more info on? Do you have a half coming up?
@@runningwithjane Hi Jane, I don't have any really specific questions, any information you post I know will be helpful. 🤓 I was late to the game with half marathons, I have not done as many of them as I have the marathon distance. I would like to improve on my time for a half marathon in the spring. There is normally a small local half marathon here in my town around mid March. My current half marathon time is just under 3 hrs in training without pushing it too much. I would certainly like to go faster than that by March. My half marathon PB set in 2015 without much structured training was 2:18. Anyway, I've rambled enough, like I said, any info you provide is always helpful!🤓Thanks again and Cheers! Scott
Hey! Great channel and super informative! I’m a big 2 week taper guy for both full and half marathons. Seems to be the right time period for me that leaves me itching for race day 🤘🏼
I think you should use 4 week avg mileage to base your percentages off instead of peak. My last 4 weeks were 105, 110, 110, 120. So avg is 111mi. I don't want to use the 120 to base my taper off because it was an anomaly (had the week off work) therefore allowing me to double every day & more rest. But my taper will be 100, 80, 60.
But if you're following a training plan and not having an anomaly week, then the way I recommended works well. It's how I manage tapers for most of my athletes except in unique cases. Glad you have a solid plan that will work well for you!
I'd be curious about elite runner taper periods, as they may have $ at stake: gotta get it right. I have followed Hansons for the last two Boston marathons, which are relatively short - 9 days for their traditional advanced program, and about 10 days for a Boston specific version. Very pleased with the results.
Kipchoge doesn’t taper at all. He runs 110-120 miles a week all the way until 5 days out before the marathon and then he shuts down running until the marathon. He ran 113 miles the week before the Berlin marathon a couple weeks ago.
Wow, of course I love the coaching tips, BUT something is different with you (sure, I'm always going to say you look years younger, but it's true - you look younger), I'm guessing it's new lighting or different lighting, new camera? OR maybe it's the teal sweatshirt?. I'm the only one who listens to the video, loves the content, and THEN comments on something totally different than the content. LOL Have an awesomeness week Coach Jane.
I lift around three to four times (sometimes more) a week as part of my cross-training regime. During the taper, how much should I cut back on lifting, or should I just cut it out all together?
Hi there! For a 3-week taper, the first week of taper can be normal, 2nd week of taper can be same consistency but do lighter weight and/or lower reps, last week of taper I typically have athletes cut it to usually bodyweight OR just mobility (band-type) work early in the week and then nothing late in the week.
Hi Jane. I injured my foot on my last 18 mi long run before the taper. I rested all week (rode the bike 3 times to keep moving) and ran 3 miles a week later. That foot felt good but then experienced the onset of a right achilles injury. I have 2 weeks till my marathon and am.in panic mode right now. If I rest for another week, what will that do to my overall pacing strategy? How much will I lose? What if I take the hole 3 weeks off and rest?
Hi David - just seeing this. Sorry to hear about your achilles injury. In the future I would definitely recommend getting in right away to a PT if you have the means. They will offer the best advice and treatment to get you back to where you need as fast as possible in the safest way. Thinking your marathon is this weekend - hope it all turns out great for you!
It was today: CIM, thanks for responding. I ended up taking the entire taper off, I ran a total of 5 miles over 2 days during the 3 weeks. My goal was a sub-4, and I shot for 3:50 +/- 5 (using a Stryd footpod running with power over pace) and crossed the finish line in 3:54:34. The last 6 miles was a bear but no issues with the injuries mentioned above (after taping them with KT Tape), but I’ll be walking up stairs backwards for a few days. Love your channel, keep it up!
Ran a 20 miler 3:45 on August 29, & another 21 miler on Sept 10 ..than did few 13 milers ( ? Question is Marthon is in 2 weeks Oct 8 ..or should I do another 20 miler now ?
If you decide to do it, it needs to be tmrw. Honestly at this point I would prob not do another 20, but def something longer than 13 otherwise it will have been a month since a really long run. I'd do something like 16...that way you're sure to not overdo it. Hope that helps...in the end, listen to your body and don't push just to get to a certain mileage. I'm sure you're going to do great!
Hi Sam - great question. You definitely want to taper off your strength just like you would in your running. But try to still keep up your routine for the most part 2-3 weeks out just lower weight and/or reps. The last week I'd prob say skip unless you really feel like you need to do something and then keep it super light/bodyweight.
One more thing, this is the first I'm hearing about cumulative fatigue and I'm almost done with training. Am I doing myself a disservice by doing a taper for half marathon within a marathon training block? Is this defeating the purpose of cumulative fatigue? Then I'll be coming out of the half marathon, no rest, into 2 peak weeks then 3 week taper into the marathon. I'm no expert but I don't see too much wrong with this?
I wouldn't personally recommend a full taper for a "B" race that you're doing on your way to an "A" race. Just a mini week-long taper generally works. More than anything I think it can defeat the purpose of you getting in the volume that you want to have, and you may need an extra rest day after the half if you're doing that distance all-out. But this is definitely not "one-size-fits-all."
Don't worry!! If you've showed consistently during this block, that's what matters most!! No such thing as a perfect training cycle - all will be well!!
@@runningwithjane Was as close to perfect as I could have hoped. Set my sights a bit too high. 3:10 BQ unlikely my first time around but for sure my 2nd marathon will be sub 3. Appreciate your help. I’ll aim for sub 3:30 and if I’m close I’ll just try if not I’ll back off a bit. Appreciate your help.
Hmmmmm, so the cumulative fatigue is good I'm assuming? I'm doing the Hal Higdon Advanced 2 for my first marathon and its good but constant running on tired legs. Still faster and fitter every run. I wasn't sure if the 1 day only of rest was sufficient for muscle repair 🤷♂️.
Cumulative fatigue is good, yes!! 1 day of rest is typically fine if you are already used to running 5-6 days/week in the past AND you are running your easy runs properly (zone 2, conversational, etc)...people get into trouble when they are running all their runs too fast. Strength training should be included as well which will help reduce muscle fatigue over time.
@runningwithjane I'm doing the Monday and Wednesday recovery runs slowish, most long runs slow, I'm alternating the 20 milers, some slow and on grass, some race pace on a track (even though I'm not supposed to be going fast). I need to get accustomed to running long distances fast. I hit the wall a lot in training but I continue on, playing around with fueling and pacing. I tend to be ultra cheap in training with those gels, if I used all I required, I'd go through a box of GU every 2 weeks, so I tend to use sparingly. Race day I will aim for 75 g of carbs per hour between gels and raisins. Carrying around 190 lbs of muscle gets exhausting at 15 mile mark 🤣😂. But if no BQ my first time around I will up peak mileage to 75 miles, that should do the trick. The Faxon Law Half in 2 weeks should be a good gauge where I'm at for Hartford marathon (although I think I can already guesstimate where I'm at).
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Jane, thanks for all the advice. I’ll be running my first (London) marathon in a week time. Your advice has been good. Keep up the great work.
Thank you so much for the kind words and so happy to hear it's been helpful!! Best of luck in London!! Hope to be there someday!
Hi @@runningwithjane! I noticed on your free beginner marathon running plan, you’ve included 2 shake out sessions. What is this exactly? Thanks so much. You’re the best and congrats on Boston! You’re a rockstar! 😊
Thank you Jane for your advice. In May I ran my first marathon. Just a week before the race I saw your video about starting out in a calm pace. This helped me a lot !
This video I learned another new good advice ! My last marathon I ran a lot 2 weeks before the race and maybe not a good idea. Greetings from Sweden ! Take care / Robert
Wow Rob, this makes me so happy to hear. And I'm so happy for YOU accomplishing a big goal and running your first marathon. Lots more greatness to come for you, I'm sure!
I have never been so ready for a taper. Training with speed work is a lot more work causing that fatigue. My legs and joints are tired and ready to heal up.
I bet - especially after today! Nothing feels better than crushing the last long LONG run!! You're going to be awesome!
I love that you uploaded this on my last long run day before my taper starts!
Talk about getting good advice in the right time 😉
Yay so glad the timing was right before. Taper time is just weird...you're going to be great!!
Thanks for stopping me from running my 75 minute steady taper run at 10K pace. I was thinking of using it to test/confirm my target marathon pace. You persuaded me to trust in the plan and stick to a steady pace. By the way, I've used two different plans for old runners (including Jeff Galloway's plan) and both had 4 week tapers.
That makes sense about the 4-week taper...I could see reasons for justifying it. It's just a month feels SO long! Trust the whole process, including taper...you got this, Nigel!
Running NYC marathon in a month! Hoping to run sub 4, saw your video that I have the base for it and I just ran a 5k and got a personal best of 21:32! Appreciate the tips you bring, they’re very helpful!
Congrats on that 5k time!! That's almost exactly my 5k time and I've run a 3:33 (3:37 on a tougher course that might be similar to NYC), so you are in a VERY good spot to go sub-4 and then some assuming you've had a good training cycle! Best of luck as you wrap up peak weeks and taper...please check in after and let me know how it goes if I don't hear from you sooner!
thanks on the advice. i am running my first 50k trail race on October 1st. slightly longer then a marathon but same strategy. I did my first 42 marathon last weekend, it was on my own, a non event, just self test and it very well . so i went ahead and doing the 50k trail now, yes the tapering does work and makes sense. thanks on sharing.
Sounds like you're rocking it! I think I need to rip off the ban-Aud next year and do my first ultra!
Band-aid
14:00 feeling flat and sluggish. Agreed. Thanks for passing that on, I was getting worried.
Really normal - lots of runners say this. Just try to keep up the fueling (carbs!), hydration and get lots of rest...and visualize success on race day to stay positive. You got this!
Less than a week out! And I’m feeling so many weird aches and pains which are a little nerve wracking, but trusting the process 😅
Oh gosh yes!! I would say I hear this from at least half of my athletes!! Usually turns out to be nothing...not likely you'd get hurt reducing mileage and speed. Truly think some of it is nerves and the other part is real recovering happening that you feel. Have an awesome race!!
Sleep a LOT in the days leading up to the race.. arriving well rested is a great advantage
Absolutely!!! Sleep will always be the best recovery tool!
Thanks, Jane. I appreciate your informative and encouraging videos. I'm one week away from my first marathon(Fort Collins, CO). My plan has a 4 week taper, and it has felt like a long time getting to race day!
You're so welcome, Layne!! Is it Longview??! I've done both the half and full! Best of luck to you - I hope the weather is 👌👌
@@runningwithjane Yes, that's the one! Thanks so much - so far forecast looks great.
Well, the weather was great, and the course is beautiful! I really thought I could go sub-4. First half in 1:56, and 20 miles at 3:00. Then I hit the wall at mile 21 and finished in 4:22. 😳 Planning to work on 5K/10K/half over the next few months and then maybe Salt Lake Marathon April 2023 for attempt #2.
Great timing and explained so well. Doing the Melbourne marathon next week and it’s my first so very nervous. Have been guilty this week of trying to add mileage because I missed some runs so I’ll stop that haha. Thank you Jane.
I know the feeling Stephen, trying to gain in the end. Bad Idea 😅. Stick with the plan and take it easy the first 10k. Good Luck !
@@robsnobb thanks mate
Trust the taper - you got this!! Best of luck to you and let me know how it goes!
@@runningwithjane thanks 🙏 will do.
@@runningwithjane Hey Jane, completed my first marathon today in 4.08. Very happy with that. Thank you for your awesome advice in your videos it definitely helped.
Thanks for all the great advice! But I think you mean reduce down to 85/90%, not by 85/90% (which would mean you'd be doing 10-15% of your usual volume) Same for subsequent weeks. :)
Oh dang! YouTubing is hard sometimes. 😆 The descriptions are at least written correctly (85-90% OF peak week mileage) so hopefully it's clear enough. 😬 And you're welcome - thanks for watching!
Also, thanks for answering a question I've had about how long it takes to get results from speed sessions.
Of course! I mean, it's not a perfect science, but it takes a bit!!
Excellent video, Jane!🤓I always learn lots of new ideas from your videos, or sometimes other ways to look at things that are different from what I am used to or have used for a long time, so thank you for that! I also just finished reading your half marathon blog series on your website, again just full of all kinds of useful nuggets of knowledge, thank you! Hope your training is going well🤓 Cheers, Scott
Hey Scott! Oh that makes me so happy to hear the half marathon blog series has been helpful! Trying to get more content added, too. Any questions in particular about this distance you'd love more info on? Do you have a half coming up?
@@runningwithjane Hi Jane, I don't have any really specific questions, any information you post I know will be helpful. 🤓 I was late to the game with half marathons, I have not done as many of them as I have the marathon distance. I would like to improve on my time for a half marathon in the spring. There is normally a small local half marathon here in my town around mid March. My current half marathon time is just under 3 hrs in training without pushing it too much. I would certainly like to go faster than that by March. My half marathon PB set in 2015 without much structured training was 2:18. Anyway, I've rambled enough, like I said, any info you provide is always helpful!🤓Thanks again and Cheers! Scott
Jane you are so good. I am 4 days from London marathon..
Thanks Hassan! Wishing you a best of luck! Looks like you may have similar weather to what we just had in Boston.
Hey! Great channel and super informative! I’m a big 2 week taper guy for both full and half marathons. Seems to be the right time period for me that leaves me itching for race day 🤘🏼
Love that feeling when you just know what works for you and you don't have to overthink it!
I think you should use 4 week avg mileage to base your percentages off instead of peak. My last 4 weeks were 105, 110, 110, 120. So avg is 111mi. I don't want to use the 120 to base my taper off because it was an anomaly (had the week off work) therefore allowing me to double every day & more rest. But my taper will be 100, 80, 60.
But if you're following a training plan and not having an anomaly week, then the way I recommended works well. It's how I manage tapers for most of my athletes except in unique cases. Glad you have a solid plan that will work well for you!
@runningwithjane LOL, I don't use a plan. I just run as much as possible while listening to my body to avoid overuse.
I'd be curious about elite runner taper periods, as they may have $ at stake: gotta get it right. I have followed Hansons for the last two Boston marathons, which are relatively short - 9 days for their traditional advanced program, and about 10 days for a Boston specific version. Very pleased with the results.
I think 2 weeks is typical for elites or even just 10 days. Glad you've had success with Hanson's!
Kipchoge doesn’t taper at all. He runs 110-120 miles a week all the way until 5 days out before the marathon and then he shuts down running until the marathon. He ran 113 miles the week before the Berlin marathon a couple weeks ago.
@@willdallas53 super interesting!
Wow, of course I love the coaching tips, BUT something is different with you (sure, I'm always going to say you look years younger, but it's true - you look younger), I'm guessing it's new lighting or different lighting, new camera? OR maybe it's the teal sweatshirt?. I'm the only one who listens to the video, loves the content, and THEN comments on something totally different than the content. LOL Have an awesomeness week Coach Jane.
Haha thanks, Ken!!
I lift around three to four times (sometimes more) a week as part of my cross-training regime. During the taper, how much should I cut back on lifting, or should I just cut it out all together?
Hi there! For a 3-week taper, the first week of taper can be normal, 2nd week of taper can be same consistency but do lighter weight and/or lower reps, last week of taper I typically have athletes cut it to usually bodyweight OR just mobility (band-type) work early in the week and then nothing late in the week.
@@runningwithjane thank you 😊
Hi Jane. I injured my foot on my last 18 mi long run before the taper. I rested all week (rode the bike 3 times to keep moving) and ran 3 miles a week later. That foot felt good but then experienced the onset of a right achilles injury. I have 2 weeks till my marathon and am.in panic mode right now. If I rest for another week, what will that do to my overall pacing strategy? How much will I lose? What if I take the hole 3 weeks off and rest?
Hi David - just seeing this. Sorry to hear about your achilles injury. In the future I would definitely recommend getting in right away to a PT if you have the means. They will offer the best advice and treatment to get you back to where you need as fast as possible in the safest way. Thinking your marathon is this weekend - hope it all turns out great for you!
It was today: CIM, thanks for responding. I ended up taking the entire taper off, I ran a total of 5 miles over 2 days during the 3 weeks. My goal was a sub-4, and I shot for 3:50 +/- 5 (using a Stryd footpod running with power over pace) and crossed the finish line in 3:54:34. The last 6 miles was a bear but no issues with the injuries mentioned above (after taping them with KT Tape), but I’ll be walking up stairs backwards for a few days. Love your channel, keep it up!
@@davidgunther1282 so exciting you still met your goal even with the injury! Excellent showing and hope you're super proud. Congrats!!
Trust Coach Jane and trust the taper.
Thanks for the support, Tim! It feels like magic when you get it right.
Ran a 20 miler 3:45 on August 29, & another 21 miler on Sept 10 ..than did few 13 milers ( ? Question is Marthon is in 2 weeks Oct 8 ..or should I do another 20 miler now ?
If you decide to do it, it needs to be tmrw. Honestly at this point I would prob not do another 20, but def something longer than 13 otherwise it will have been a month since a really long run. I'd do something like 16...that way you're sure to not overdo it. Hope that helps...in the end, listen to your body and don't push just to get to a certain mileage. I'm sure you're going to do great!
What do you think about strength training, especially lower body, during the taper phase?
Hi Sam - great question. You definitely want to taper off your strength just like you would in your running. But try to still keep up your routine for the most part 2-3 weeks out just lower weight and/or reps. The last week I'd prob say skip unless you really feel like you need to do something and then keep it super light/bodyweight.
One more thing, this is the first I'm hearing about cumulative fatigue and I'm almost done with training. Am I doing myself a disservice by doing a taper for half marathon within a marathon training block? Is this defeating the purpose of cumulative fatigue? Then I'll be coming out of the half marathon, no rest, into 2 peak weeks then 3 week taper into the marathon. I'm no expert but I don't see too much wrong with this?
I wouldn't personally recommend a full taper for a "B" race that you're doing on your way to an "A" race. Just a mini week-long taper generally works. More than anything I think it can defeat the purpose of you getting in the volume that you want to have, and you may need an extra rest day after the half if you're doing that distance all-out. But this is definitely not "one-size-fits-all."
@runningwithjane Ughhhh, I can take the day off after if absolutely necessary (it's just a 5 mile recovery run).... oh well. Thanks for the response.
Don't worry!! If you've showed consistently during this block, that's what matters most!! No such thing as a perfect training cycle - all will be well!!
@@runningwithjane Was as close to perfect as I could have hoped. Set my sights a bit too high. 3:10 BQ unlikely my first time around but for sure my 2nd marathon will be sub 3. Appreciate your help. I’ll aim for sub 3:30 and if I’m close I’ll just try if not I’ll back off a bit. Appreciate your help.
Hmmmmm, so the cumulative fatigue is good I'm assuming? I'm doing the Hal Higdon Advanced 2 for my first marathon and its good but constant running on tired legs. Still faster and fitter every run. I wasn't sure if the 1 day only of rest was sufficient for muscle repair 🤷♂️.
Cumulative fatigue is good, yes!! 1 day of rest is typically fine if you are already used to running 5-6 days/week in the past AND you are running your easy runs properly (zone 2, conversational, etc)...people get into trouble when they are running all their runs too fast. Strength training should be included as well which will help reduce muscle fatigue over time.
@runningwithjane I'm doing the Monday and Wednesday recovery runs slowish, most long runs slow, I'm alternating the 20 milers, some slow and on grass, some race pace on a track (even though I'm not supposed to be going fast). I need to get accustomed to running long distances fast. I hit the wall a lot in training but I continue on, playing around with fueling and pacing. I tend to be ultra cheap in training with those gels, if I used all I required, I'd go through a box of GU every 2 weeks, so I tend to use sparingly. Race day I will aim for 75 g of carbs per hour between gels and raisins. Carrying around 190 lbs of muscle gets exhausting at 15 mile mark 🤣😂. But if no BQ my first time around I will up peak mileage to 75 miles, that should do the trick. The Faxon Law Half in 2 weeks should be a good gauge where I'm at for Hartford marathon (although I think I can already guesstimate where I'm at).