What’s funny is Saving Private Ryan brought me here - I was looking into how they achieved the visual effects in the opening scene (D-Day, Normandy) and I read about the shutter angle decrease! So when you mentioned that film in particular I knew I had a good source. Thank you for this demonstration and explanation! Photography/cinematography is fascinating and I really appreciate the work you put in!
It’s interesting. That filmmakers weren’t really using that effect before that point. Spielberg had never used it to my knowledge, and ridley started to use it soon there after. But cameras could always do it.
For conventional footage, I gladly stick to the 180° shutter angle. But right now I’m working on a video essay about Miyazaki’s animation style, and I’m experimenting with shutter angle to emulate his distinctive style of animating motion. This was best, clearest example on TH-cam of these options. Thank you for sharing the results of your fun experiment!
90 and and 45 degree gives u a sharper image,, useful for rainy scenes,, or wind and dusty scenes,, flakes,, u can see the crispness of the objects,, rainy scenes u can see the rain drops crisp and clear
60 fps plus no longer follows 180 degree rule for 'cinematic motion blur', using that rule just makes the already sharp and low motion blur image into sharper and less motion blur
cinlALVEspO w: Apparently. Gerald Undone in his ground-breaking video on frame rates and shutter speed agrees with you. He is an expert on this stuff and he says if you shoot at 60p you can break the 180 degree rule and stay at 1/60 of a second shutter speed
This was a great lesson, thanks. I didn't know just a slightly faster shutter speed would have that much of an effect. I left mine at 360 ignorantly and was never happy with the results.
Yes... but if you're in a rather dark room with a tripod shot without much movement.... and you need more exposure without disrupting the blacks too much (IE without cranking the ISO) you might go to 360 degrees at 30 fps. Well I did anyway!
Thank you for this. You seem to understand what you're saying. I do have a question: wouldn't 60fps taken at 360° shutter angle have the same amount of motion blur and be perceived the same?
Thank you. Things get a little bit complicated when factoring in for higher frame rates. Gerald Undone did a really detailed video on this topic that I'd suggest. The question becomes whether the same amount of motion blur is needed when shooting in higher frame rates, also, are you shooting high frame rates to play back in real time? Or in slow motion?
Each frame at 60fps (1/60 ss) will have lesser blur since it's a faster shutter speed as compared to 24fps (1/24). It will appear as a crispier blur (60fps) as compared to a hazier blur (24fps)
Not really because there’s already less motion blur because there are so many more frames. Plus, you might struggle with exposure if your shutter is so high
I'm using 30fs video setting on my drone and have ND filters to get the shutter speed at double that . 1/60. How would i get a more jarring (war movie/90 degree feel?) Would I simply go for a faster shutter speed? Would I use a weaker ND filter and aim for 1/120?
Yeah, that's exactly what you would do. But keep in mind, without obvious motion in the frame, you probably won't notice much of a difference. You'd need people in your frame moving around a lot
Hey, I found a quote from Steven Spielberg where he said that they used both 45 and 90. But the idea remains the same. I suppose I could do a quick video illustrating 45 degrees as well. Thanks for the comment
For most scenarios, I'd say 180 if you're trying for a traditional "film look." Panning with digital cameras can be tricky because the image can look jittery (juddery?). Try changing the speed of the pan, a slow pan might look better. If you pan fast, you will introduce motion blur, giving you a blurry, soft look (which is why you can hide cuts in fast pans because the two clips will blur together). Hope this helps
180° shutter angle on 600 video does NOT create a cinematic look. It is a choppier look, only really appropriate to creating a hyper fast, unrealistic look (if thats whaf you are going for). If you want the cinematic look of 30p 1/60, keep your shutter speed at 1/60 when you shoot 60p. You could even shoot 30p at 1/48 shutter speed to get the same amount of motion blur that is normally found when shooting 24p. Basically shutter angle is a legacy term that has no bearing on modern technology (there is no shutter that has angled cutouts anymore) and the "180° rule" was only useful to remember the setting for 24p, and is detrimental to follow when using higher modern framerates. Perhaps the so-called 180° rule was missapplied to shutter angle when the useful 180° rule is about shot composition during a scene to avoid disorienting the audience.
I have an updated video on this topic that shows you what the math is. Plus there are a bunch of conversions in the description if you want a handy cheat sheet
Thanks for the informative video. My older Pana SD900 video cam, has 25 interlace or 50 progressive settings which I prefer to shoot in. So as not to require extra lighting when shooting 50p I would rather set frame shutter speed/angle to 50/(360). As I am only filming interviews indoors with controlled lighting with little or no movement from the subject. Any suggestions would be really appreciated. Can't find this info anywhere. Tony
I'm making some riding videos atm but 180 looks a little too blurry for me at 23,98fps so instead of going 90 degree I should just bump up the framerate a bit?
Does a 180 deg shutter at 24fps have a similar blur as 360 shutter at 48fps? Because the shutter speed (1/48) stays the same. And also the exposure would be the same? Or is 360 degree shutter too slow for 48fps shooting? Thanks anyways!
@@revalrider I was trying to write this long and complicated response but I kept running into questions in my own mind. Maybe I'll try to sort through all the variables and make another video about it. One thing you could clarify is if you're playing back the HFR footage at 24 fps (therefore getting slo mo), or are you playing it back at the HFR? (like the Hobbit?)
I think you should try both. I'm not too familiar w/ riding videos and what people like to see, but I will say that it's typical for sports and other fast moving events to be shot and displayed at high frame rates rather than 24 fps.
Interesting. I don't know much about current TV display technology. It would be interesting to look into though. But there are so many variations/possibilities out there for consuming content...it's exhausting
hey I had a friend to go fill my wedding with me and he has a gh5. and he films with shutter angle but he's always getting noise in his footage.. and he was filming in the daytime and it was bright..
@@PhillipRPeck I don't know I was just trying to figure out what was causing him to get noise in his footage, and that was the only thing I can think of. I don't think he was dumb enough to have his ISO really high.. although I could be wrong..lol. I mostly work with Sony so I don't know too much about shutter angles. I know the concept of it but I was wondering it using it will cause noise in the footage. like if you use it in different lighting situations like inside outside nighttime or daytime.
@@EyeLensWeddingVideography Shutter angle works just the same way as shutter speed on modern digital cameras, just represented in a different value. It shouldn't have any effect on noise performance unless he was using an extremely low shutter angle/high shutter speed that wasn't allowing the sensor to capture enough light for each frame
@@PhillipRPeck I was thinking the same thing, but sometimes it's hard to talk to him because he has a ego. he thinks he's the best of the best. I tried to tell him he needs to learn a little bit more about how to operate his GH5 camera properly. he is a very good with his camera movements and got a good eye but I don't think he took his time learning how to use the camera properly..
So did Michael Mann when he shot night scenes in "Public Enemies." If it's good enough for an auteur like him, then it's good enough for the rest of us
@@PhillipRPeck Its great, I have a wedding to film tomorrow, I needed some quick information, and you gave it in just over 3 mins, no messing. Keep up the great work my friend!
people need to first understand how the human eye works. first, the human eye has quite a high frame rate, and high fps, young pro video game players can use a monitor of 200fps+, even 300fps+, to play the game. second, motion blur is made up inside the brain, it is not physical, it is a human biological effect. quick conclusion, human sees at a high frame rate, but with a big chunk of motion blur that is added in the brain post work. to understand camera motion, people need to first understand the human eye. you need high fps, but, the machine works differently than the human eye, the camera does not add motion blur as the human brain does, so you need to control the motion blur using fps and shutter angle combined. if the video fps is too high, the camera simply does not produce motion blur because each frame is too short, and the shutter is too fast to capture anything in blurry motion. 60fps and 360degree shutter angle is a good middle ground. dramatic settings could be used for specific story purposes.
What’s funny is Saving Private Ryan brought me here - I was looking into how they achieved the visual effects in the opening scene (D-Day, Normandy) and I read about the shutter angle decrease! So when you mentioned that film in particular I knew I had a good source. Thank you for this demonstration and explanation! Photography/cinematography is fascinating and I really appreciate the work you put in!
Thank you!
It’s interesting. That filmmakers weren’t really using that effect before that point. Spielberg had never used it to my knowledge, and ridley started to use it soon there after. But cameras could always do it.
For conventional footage, I gladly stick to the 180° shutter angle. But right now I’m working on a video essay about Miyazaki’s animation style, and I’m experimenting with shutter angle to emulate his distinctive style of animating motion. This was best, clearest example on TH-cam of these options. Thank you for sharing the results of your fun experiment!
90 and and 45 degree gives u a sharper image,, useful for rainy scenes,, or wind and dusty scenes,, flakes,, u can see the crispness of the objects,, rainy scenes u can see the rain drops crisp and clear
Awesome, thank you for the information
Thanks
Props to the star of the show and the dancing!
60 fps plus no longer follows 180 degree rule for 'cinematic motion blur', using that rule just makes the already sharp and low motion blur image into sharper and less motion blur
cinlALVEspO w: Apparently. Gerald Undone in his ground-breaking video on frame rates and shutter speed agrees with you. He is an expert on this stuff and he says if you shoot at 60p you can break the 180 degree rule and stay at 1/60 of a second shutter speed
This is the best explanation of shutter angle I've ever seen :)
Glad it was helpful!
She was having fun
This was a great lesson, thanks. I didn't know just a slightly faster shutter speed would have that much of an effect. I left mine at 360 ignorantly and was never happy with the results.
Cool! I'm glad it was helpful
180: Cinema
360: Home Video
90: Action Scene
Hey Mrs. Peck has some serious floss dance talent !!! I only know about that dance because my teenage god children do that exact same stuff, lol.
Very helpful, thank you so much! I'm going to take the 90° degree for a ride with a dramatic black and white
90 degree was used on James Bond films
And also on saving private ryan
180 shutter is perfect for 24 to 30 fps playback. 360 shutter is perfect for 48 to 60 fps playback.
Precisely!
Yes... but if you're in a rather dark room with a tripod shot without much movement.... and you need more exposure without disrupting the blacks too much (IE without cranking the ISO) you might go to 360 degrees at 30 fps. Well I did anyway!
@@SpikeAllibone Yeah, if there isn't much motion, then it doesn't matter as it won't be noticeable.
Thanks!
Wow! Thank you!
Thank you for this. You seem to understand what you're saying. I do have a question: wouldn't 60fps taken at 360° shutter angle have the same amount of motion blur and be perceived the same?
Thank you. Things get a little bit complicated when factoring in for higher frame rates. Gerald Undone did a really detailed video on this topic that I'd suggest.
The question becomes whether the same amount of motion blur is needed when shooting in higher frame rates, also, are you shooting high frame rates to play back in real time? Or in slow motion?
Each frame at 60fps (1/60 ss) will have lesser blur since it's a faster shutter speed as compared to 24fps (1/24). It will appear as a crispier blur (60fps) as compared to a hazier blur (24fps)
Thank you Phillip, best video I've seen on this subject.
Thanks!
Great video, for 24fps which shutter speed need for 90 degrees?
Thank you. 1/100
Sony FS5 changed mine to 360. Noticed in post.
so would 90 degree be better for slomo?? since it would be clearer?
Not really because there’s already less motion blur because there are so many more frames. Plus, you might struggle with exposure if your shutter is so high
Can you please make one but at 60fps? Both slow motion and normal playback at 60p
Good idea. I'll look into it
Awesome demo. Thanks for sharing.
P.S. Congratulations on 1K subscribers. :-)
Thanks! Really appreciate it
So what’s 90 degree shutter angle converted to shutter speed
I have an updated video on my channel that shows you how to do the math and also gives you all the answers
@@PhillipRPeck ok what’s the name of that video
@@mcneilbelle Convert Shutter Angle to Shutter Speed for CINEMATIC Video!
how about 120degree ?
I'm using 30fs video setting on my drone and have ND filters to get the shutter speed at double that . 1/60. How would i get a more jarring (war movie/90 degree feel?) Would I simply go for a faster shutter speed? Would I use a weaker ND filter and aim for 1/120?
Yeah, that's exactly what you would do. But keep in mind, without obvious motion in the frame, you probably won't notice much of a difference. You'd need people in your frame moving around a lot
Saving private ryan was 45 degrees. Can you make the videos of 45 vs 90
Hey, I found a quote from Steven Spielberg where he said that they used both 45 and 90. But the idea remains the same. I suppose I could do a quick video illustrating 45 degrees as well. Thanks for the comment
if the camera and the object are in motion, which is the most appropriate? 180?
I asked because I shot a scene yesterday in 180 and the image looks like it was a little blurry at the edges, according to how I turned the camera.
caused a strange sensation in my eyes
For most scenarios, I'd say 180 if you're trying for a traditional "film look." Panning with digital cameras can be tricky because the image can look jittery (juddery?). Try changing the speed of the pan, a slow pan might look better. If you pan fast, you will introduce motion blur, giving you a blurry, soft look (which is why you can hide cuts in fast pans because the two clips will blur together). Hope this helps
180° shutter angle on 600 video does NOT create a cinematic look. It is a choppier look, only really appropriate to creating a hyper fast, unrealistic look (if thats whaf you are going for). If you want the cinematic look of 30p 1/60, keep your shutter speed at 1/60 when you shoot 60p.
You could even shoot 30p at 1/48 shutter speed to get the same amount of motion blur that is normally found when shooting 24p.
Basically shutter angle is a legacy term that has no bearing on modern technology (there is no shutter that has angled cutouts anymore) and the "180° rule" was only useful to remember the setting for 24p, and is detrimental to follow when using higher modern framerates.
Perhaps the so-called 180° rule was missapplied to shutter angle when the useful 180° rule is about shot composition during a scene to avoid disorienting the audience.
By "600" video, you mean "60p" video, right?
So 90 degrees make equal of shutter speed of 200 or similar.
I have an updated video on this topic that shows you what the math is. Plus there are a bunch of conversions in the description if you want a handy cheat sheet
The 90 degree looks good tho 🤔.. hmm
Thanks for the informative video. My older Pana SD900 video cam, has 25 interlace or 50 progressive settings which I prefer to shoot in. So as not to require extra lighting when shooting 50p I would rather set frame shutter speed/angle to 50/(360). As I am only filming interviews indoors with controlled lighting with little or no movement from the subject. Any suggestions would be really appreciated. Can't find this info anywhere. Tony
That sounds like a reasonable option. I can't really offer much more insight just suggest that you do a test shoot and see how it turns out.
The Money Shot is at 0:52 - yer welcome.
That's my wife
I'm making some riding videos atm but 180 looks a little too blurry for me at 23,98fps so instead of going 90 degree I should just bump up the framerate a bit?
Does a 180 deg shutter at 24fps have a similar blur as 360 shutter at 48fps? Because the shutter speed (1/48) stays the same. And also the exposure would be the same? Or is 360 degree shutter too slow for 48fps shooting? Thanks anyways!
OK I did a little test. 180 looks better for sure! haha
That was going to be my final recommendation--do some tests and see what looks best to you :) @@revalrider
@@revalrider I was trying to write this long and complicated response but I kept running into questions in my own mind. Maybe I'll try to sort through all the variables and make another video about it. One thing you could clarify is if you're playing back the HFR footage at 24 fps (therefore getting slo mo), or are you playing it back at the HFR? (like the Hobbit?)
I think you should try both. I'm not too familiar w/ riding videos and what people like to see, but I will say that it's typical for sports and other fast moving events to be shot and displayed at high frame rates rather than 24 fps.
90 degree is better for TVs with frame interpolation (smooth motion)
Interesting. I don't know much about current TV display technology. It would be interesting to look into though. But there are so many variations/possibilities out there for consuming content...it's exhausting
hey I had a friend to go fill my wedding with me and he has a gh5. and he films with shutter angle but he's always getting noise in his footage.. and he was filming in the daytime and it was bright..
Ok, so are you saying that the noise goes away if he switches to shutter speed?
@@PhillipRPeck I don't know I was just trying to figure out what was causing him to get noise in his footage, and that was the only thing I can think of. I don't think he was dumb enough to have his ISO really high.. although I could be wrong..lol. I mostly work with Sony so I don't know too much about shutter angles. I know the concept of it but I was wondering it using it will cause noise in the footage. like if you use it in different lighting situations like inside outside nighttime or daytime.
@@EyeLensWeddingVideography Shutter angle works just the same way as shutter speed on modern digital cameras, just represented in a different value. It shouldn't have any effect on noise performance unless he was using an extremely low shutter angle/high shutter speed that wasn't allowing the sensor to capture enough light for each frame
But there are any number of variables that could cause noise in addition to the above--underexposed areas, high ISO, frame rate, picture profile
@@PhillipRPeck I was thinking the same thing, but sometimes it's hard to talk to him because he has a ego. he thinks he's the best of the best. I tried to tell him he needs to learn a little bit more about how to operate his GH5 camera properly. he is a very good with his camera movements and got a good eye but I don't think he took his time learning how to use the camera properly..
Thanks! This is what I am looking for to understand shutter angle.
Glad it was helpful
You didn't say how to get 90 degrees with shutter speed 😭
90 degrees (half as much light so double the shutter speed from 180 degree shutters)
24 fps 1/96
30 fps 1/120
60 fps 1/240
120 fps 1/480
I like to shoot with camcorders and their low light capabilities are bad. I use the 360 degree when lighting isn't ideal.
So did Michael Mann when he shot night scenes in "Public Enemies." If it's good enough for an auteur like him, then it's good enough for the rest of us
Awesome this really helps as a quick reference 😎😇⛩🎬😍
Great, useful and resourceful video! 🙌🏻 thank you!
You're very welcome!
Thank you dude.
Thank you great overview!
No problem, thank you!
I have an identical ps4 pad dude, cool video!
Sweet! I broke mine playing Sekiro
really appreciated this info man
Awesome. Glad it was helpful
Grat infos, thanks! I think you should probably upgrade your potato-recording-equipment tho lol :D
Thanks! Potatoes for everyone!
Vert helpful thank you. Straight to the point
Thanks! It's not often that I get straight to the point
@@PhillipRPeck Its great, I have a wedding to film tomorrow, I needed some quick information, and you gave it in just over 3 mins, no messing. Keep up the great work my friend!
@@thedigitalemotion Sweet. Good luck!
What is she doing?
Dancing...?
less angel = more noise
Higher shutter means more light is needed, so yeah, this is a factor to consider
LMAO
your girl/wife is pretty funny haha
She is indeed
goood deeemooo! :D
people need to first understand how the human eye works.
first, the human eye has quite a high frame rate, and high fps, young pro video game players can use a monitor of 200fps+, even 300fps+, to play the game.
second, motion blur is made up inside the brain, it is not physical, it is a human biological effect.
quick conclusion, human sees at a high frame rate, but with a big chunk of motion blur that is added in the brain post work.
to understand camera motion, people need to first understand the human eye.
you need high fps, but, the machine works differently than the human eye, the camera does not add motion blur as the human brain does, so you need to control the motion blur using fps and shutter angle combined.
if the video fps is too high, the camera simply does not produce motion blur because each frame is too short, and the shutter is too fast to capture anything in blurry motion.
60fps and 360degree shutter angle is a good middle ground.
dramatic settings could be used for specific story purposes.