Deuteronomists: "okay, now we've cut down Asherah and mixed El with Yahweh so we can have strict monotheism. What can possibly go wrong? * *Jesus descends* * I am Yahweh your God, and I have a Father! * *GASP* * * *Joseph Smith jumps out from behind the curtain* * and He also has a Mother! * *DOUBLE GASP* *
I didn’t see it live. But if people are really saying this is apostasy or they are worried about topics like this, you need to realize that people are allowed to discuss and debate these things and it has nothing to do with salvation. James E. Talmage had a huge debate with another contemporary apostle (I forget who, sorry) about whether there were any humans prior to Adam. They were called Pre-adamites and the debate went all the way to the First Presidency and they said that the Church had no position but that these topics are “profitable for doctrine”. So chill out.
@@UpriseMusic first off , it’s 501(c)3…second, section 501(c)3 of the tax code didn’t exist until 1969…considering James E Talmage died in 1933, your supposition is unlikely to say the least. And as a side note, it was likely Joseph Fielding Smith or B H Roberts that he debated, both of whom had full heads of hair with president smith sporting a fantastic beard.
I know the restoration is ongoing but I have often thought that additional information on Heavenly Mother and her role is being withheld from us because we are not ready. There are some Latter Day Saints so set in their ways that they would reject additional revelation regarding her out of hand, particularly if it is many of the things that David Butler and others have deduced from their research. Other Christians would use it as fuel to attack us further which might hinder missionary work. There is also a faction in the church that would take additional revelation on Heavenly Mother too far, in my opinion, and would neglect other aspects of the gospel in an effort to be woke and more feminist. I can see people twisting the doctrine to advance a cause or be an activist in the church for modern day woke feminism using this revealed doctrine improperly. I guess what I'm saying is we probably aren't ready for this doctrine and I wonder if we ever will be until we become a Zion people. But, I appreciate David and others inside and outside the church shedding further light and knowledge that helps in my own contemplation of the eternities.
I think you’ve just succinctly described why so much of this Ward radio and Stick of Joseph stuff is not being taught. A few short decades ago, the likes of Nibley and McConkie were passing out samples of gospel meat. Since then it seems that, while familiarity with the scriptural text has increased, the culture of the church has regressed to the point of gorging on skim milk. Our leaders are hindered by the Lords requirement that we allow tares and wheat to grow together for a little while longer. I think it takes more scripture study than most will do to reach whole milk. As for graduation from milk to meat, if it can be said that I have reached such a milestone, it is because of the stern but loving rebuke of then Elder Russel M Nelson in October 2016 conference: “The Price of Priesthood Power”. That hit home for me - opened my eyes. Between much fasting and prayer and study and Ward radio and stick of Joseph, my understanding of the temple has just blossomed over the last several weeks. I share Alma’s sin: a deep desire that I could speak with the voice of a trump and shake the saints to a realization of the need to create spiritual power and of how to use it in their everyday challenges! I suppose I will have to settle for offering my testimony, speaking from deep and life-altering experience, that the Lord’s promise is sure: draw near unto me, and I will draw near unto you. Ask and ye shall receive. Knock and it shall be opened unto you. Seek me and ye shall find me! Furthermore I bear this testimony of the Book of Mormon: depending on how we approach it, the BoM is either a nice warm, fuzzy spiritual security blanket to go along with the teddy bear of the knowledge of the First Vision… or it is a manual on how to use the veil of the temple for what it is: a Stargate!
Cardon, for the love of all that's good and holy... You must wear a shirt that says "You know what I'm saying?" Then all you have to do is point!!... You know what I'm saying? 😁💖🤟
On the latter day disciples podcast the host nails the divine feminine! She noticed that Eve was never commanded to not eat from the tree, Adam was commanded to do that before she even existed. I’ve looked and looked and she’s right. She explains why Eve may have answered satan’s question to the affirmative that “they” we told not to eat from it. Find the presentation she does in someone’s home and you can judge for yourself. I agree that this new information about our divine mother needs to be talked about and hashed out. No hiding in the church like we already know all we will ever know
I like the "team" version of El Shaddai better. The man is not without the woman in the Lord. The Title should be: "Was Alma a High Priest of the Father and Mother?"
This is great content. I think one of the more significant things that was said was when Dave said that basically we have a hard time managing or handling the reality of the mother deity. We either shoot too far or too short. I couldn’t agree more! I think this is the reason why God, the father Doesn’t steer us directly toward her. But if we embrace her fruit, i.e., the Savior, we will arrive at the presence of she and the father. But I think these things are meant to be hidden because they are sacred. So the astute journey taking person Will begin to see the divine family.
When l was young, l asked my Grandmother about Heavenly Mother, and why we don't speak of her often. She said Mother in Heaven's name is sacred. We don't want the non believers to use her name in vein like Father's.
@@sherylfleming3594it’s in the Bible. Asherah is also found in biblical archeology as the consort of El. So it’s really not a question of sacred names here any more than Yahweh or El.
There's no such thing as a father without a mother. Think about it. The term "father" means a male who has a child. A child comes from a father and a mother ALWAYS. Therefore, the terms father and mother can't be uttered without the presupposition that the other exists. So every time you invoke Heavely Father in prayer, you're acknowledging Heavenly Mother's existence as well. EVERY TIME. She listens in on that prayer because They are Elohim. Elohim is the plural Hebrew word for Gods used in a singular fashion because you can't have one without the other.
One of the best things I’ve seen in my dang life! And the timing of all this ancient knowledge coming to light and being more accessible for the plebs just multiplied my testimony of Christ and the books which we are under condemnation for neglecting. Last half of the last inning kids!
I interpreted the lost plain and precious things as: Plain: Christ and Repentance. As far as I recall, every time Nephi speaks “plainly” to his brothers he is calling them to Christ and to repentance Precious: Heavenly Mother, her love is for Joi’s, her fruit is Christ, just as the fruit of women today is their children. The seeds of fruit plant new trees, just as when we plant the seed of Christ in our heart and feed and water it, we grow ourselves into a tree as our Heavenly Parents. She also seems called out in scriptures as being more precious than rubies.
As a TBM… Cardin goes off at 1:49:12 and is completely correct. I think even today, we struggle with not being accepted by the “Christians”. And although we don’t need to worship Ashirah, we don’t have to be afraid and accuse any mention of her as looking beyond the mark. I don’t think we need to teach about her in Sunday School. But those who are on here shaming the panel for even talking about her, when clearly she is present, is lame. Joseph Smith obviously recognized her existence.
In early Christian teachings it was the Mother's voice that acknowledged Jesus. Most fascinating! The early Christian Godhead was Father, Mother, Son.....Margaret Barker is the one who opened my eyes on this one.
I may be wrong here… but I think I figured out why the number seven represents both women and completion. The creation wasn’t completed until our Heavenly Mother had done her part. In Genesis 2:2-3, notice the pun: “asher” translates as “which”.
Ha ha ha. The restoration was an event that was not fulfilled see dnc on the completion of the nauvoo temple. There is no where that says that the restoration will continue after a group of murders, containing a few apostles, will continue because 200years after the lord’s prophet is killed, the people of this time, unified under a church, who is controlling the silencing of voices who wish to share more of the gospel revealed a long time ago, wish that their church was being honest true and not asserting their own divine authority to speak for a god who has always spoke clearly for Himself to those who are looking. Continuing restoration, what you need to start with is rejecting the aberrations that the chirch is involved in. Including the usurpation of the catholic idea that salvation only comes through the lds church instead of through Jesus,, Oliver didn’t like this idea either and history calls him a bad guy when he has done much less than what modern church leaders are doing.
So if the heartland theory is correct, and if the Garden of Eden was in Missouri per Joseph Smith, could the waters of Mormon and the Garden of Eden have been in the same physical location?
We need to bring back the School of the Prophets that dives into Hebrew, Latin, Greek, and these academic topics in the Book of Mormon and Bible. I'd go.
As an atheist, I just want to say what a baller you are. This world needs more religious people with the enthusiasm you have to read the ancient texts for yourself and stop relying on bad translations-I’m talking about the very inept KJV and other translations here. Hopefully you get more people excited for the same thing, and to also delve into the DSS and apocryphal texts to see what things you might find there you feel inspired by.
I hope you read this. The comments in the video about ancient languages being multi-dimensional reminds me of DNA. It has been discovered that DNA is so data dense that when read in one direction the DNA is a valid message but when read in the other direction it is also a valid, yet different message.
@@beckabuff1 I'm just pointing out that DNA, like language (especially the Adamic language) has the power to communicate much more information that may be immediately obvious.
You can use a tree to purify water by cutting off a branch and putting it in filthy water and it with trough capillary action turn it pure! Very interesting
No offense intended. We no longer say " take out our endowments " We " receive our endowments " words matter. We love you all. I'm cleaning house and listening today
We were given the code to understand the Book of Mormon, reformed Egyptian and Hebrew and we never internalized that until now...we could have had so much more information for so much longer if we had been trying to know those languages to better understand the book
This really shifts my thoughts on james 5...if ye lack wisdom...there are a lot of scriptures I would love to review through the lense of the ancient Hebrew
I'm so glad y'all are talking about this because I've been praying how to find out more about my divine role as a woman as patterned after my Heavenly Mother. This is great 👍
In 2 Nephi 7:1 he quotes Isaiah saying, “1 Yea, for thus saith the Lord: Have I put thee away, or have I cast thee off forever? For thus saith the Lord: Where is the bill of your mother’s divorcement? To whom have I put thee away, or to which of my creditors have I sold you? Yea, to whom have I sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away.” The words mother and divorcement reminded me of the word katar (I think) that you said means to cut off or divorce when they cut down the groves. Super interesting that this verse appears to be talking about us being cut off or divorced from our Mother. I never considered it was our Heavenly Mother, but that is making so much sense after hearing your discussion. Am I reading this wrong?
I've been critical of many of your podcasts because the content is so wrong. But this is one I am totally with you. I myself am beginning a series on Heavenly Mother because I have always thought this is a gem of theology. Your info here, especially the Hebrew Dave brought out, was stellar. I also read and study the Hebrew and I heard nothing here out of line. Again, as a critic (and justified in tweaking you on some of your content) I stand behind you here on this superb analysis. Ignore the haters, they come from ignorance. Dave got it right. I'd love to talk with him on this subject on my show. My respect for him has gone up enormously. This was inspiring to me. Thank you sincerely. Cardon you're a little wild at times, but it is fun as well.
Interesting conversation. In Luke Anna is referred to as a prophetess who praises christ birth at temple. It says she is from the tribe of Asher. Asherites were known for their beautiful women, fertile land, and wisdom. Thanks for the podcast. Peace to all.
How blessed are they… a reference to the endowment on the Mount (see Matt 5-7). (The endowment on the Mount can be broken down into five laws.) Notice other references to the endowment in Mosiah 18… becoming children of God, walking “ashray” before God… verses 27-28 are beatitudes. I have to think that upon being discovered by the king, they packed up their tents… was one of those tents a tabernacle?
The most plain and precious thing taken out of the scriptures of which Nephi saw was the name of Jesus Christ. As you read the old testiment no were do you read the name Jesus Christ. But in the Book of Mormon the name of Christ is all over from its very first book of Nephi and they lived in old testiment times.
Don't forget that President Nelson was greatly impressed by the Saviour to use the correct name of the Church, also President Nelson loves women dearly
I think we shouldn’t focus on things like names. It’s so pedantic. Just live your Christ centered lives because no one really cares as much as the few in Mormonism. I’m on the outside and I can tell you we don’t care. Lots of people think you guys are nice and we will continue to call you Mormons. But if you insist on correcting people all the time to say what you want us to say, people will think it’s annoying and petty.
The restored and modern scriptures asr very clear that the office of God is, and only can be, a dualistic balance of male and female united and working in harmony. This discussion is just a further illustration of those truths. When I pray to, or meditate upon God I automatically sense the two. The Father and his consort. And yes, protestantism is a problem.
Anyone who thinks we know everything about the priesthood has likely missed Spencer W Kimball's April 1974 general conference address, "Our Great Potential."
Cardon and the rest of the crew, You guys are awesome! This was amazing! Dave, Bought your book when it first came out and my testimony in the Restoration of the Gospel and the Book of Mormon has never been stronger. Your study into the “ghost” of the Book of Mormon has connected many archeological and mythological puzzle pieces for me and I am deeply grateful. Also, you mentioned you haven’t figured the meaning behind Mormon. I have a theory that lines up nicely with the tenets of your book as well as this episode. Not enough to go in great detail, but I would look at the connection of the following related Hebrew words to the temple and Garden of Eden: Mor (myrrh), man (manna), ma’on (dwelling, or refuge).
There are 5 temples in Australia currently the one in your photo is Sydney, The second temple Dedicated was Adelaide then Melbourne Perth and Brisbane. Last conference President Nelson announced another temple for Brisbane. I have served in all the temples in Australia accept Perth because it is 2680km (1665 miles) from where I live. I love the temple and I am enjoying your show. I am new to it from Australia & I have hit the subscribe and like buttons.
Could we get a Jewish Rabbi that is friendly towards the church - to come on and talk about this from the Jewish perspective? I know there is a Rabbi that goes to general conference regularly. Thanks guys!
This is SOOO.... AWESOME!! Keep giving us info. Love this stuff y'all!! I want to be able to understand more. Btw, I got Dave's book, "In the language of Adam".. 🙏❤️⚘️
The respect of Women ...last will be first: takes on a new feeling from The Fathers own details..Mother of all living. The Book of Mormon is God's love open letters unto us. Thank u for the opportunity of these discussions
This is next level, going back to the Hebrew and seeing reasoning behind other translations, etc. Nothing wrong with that, and actually something that the Father would expect of us, using tools now available. Joseph Smith gave us that example.
As an atheist, I agree. Use all the best available modern tools. We know Hebrew, Aramaic, Koine NT Greek, etc far better now than ever thanks to many advancements in scholarship. We also have scholarly reconstructions of biblical texts for your perusal (Nestle-Aland NT, etc), so you can see variant readings in verses from different papyri, etc, for yourself. This allows you to make your own careful determinations, which in your case would include prayerful consideration, into what you feel the text likely said. It’s exciting times we live in.
"The future is dualistic" love this so much. To become as a God male and female must join together as one. I can't help but feel any attempt to create a schism between the genders is doing Satan's work and moving us away from God. I think it 8s important to accept people as God created them, with their own individual strengths, and not impose manmade restrictions on them, and important distinction. I don't think doing that takes away from the focus on the divine. This was an amazing episode.
Heavenly Father said we are not to be commanded in all things and so I believe he expects us to think for ourselves bc he gave us our brains! Thanks for sharing! If it scares some.. we were not given the spirit of fear, but of love power and a sound mind! 🎉 There is a song El Shaddai Adoni?
Just a minor aside: “adoni” is apparently also a plural 😊 I will say that like a few weeks ago I was saying a prayer, and was kind of putting aside any of the feminine/tree stuff because I was getting flustered, but in this prayer (about something totally different) I just kinda felt a little nudge to “ask about the tree,” to which I was like “whyyyy?” And again felt, “just ask about the tree,” so I was like, “fine, can the tree be a symbol of the Divine Feminine?” And I felt a very calm and succinct, “yes.” I’m still not totally comfortable going all the way to Ashera (but the happy/blessed puns are quite convincing), but I am comfortable with the tree being a feminine symbol as well as a symbol of Christ (it is through Him that we can attain eternal life, after all; but He exists and came to mortality to do what He had to do, by the love and grace of Elohim, which includes both Father and Mother).
Is there a link or some other way to access the LDS Apocrypha database I believe I heard mentioned? Because I had been thinking about making a public-facing such resource before. UPDATE: Just heard the part about how the Apocrypha is getting added to the Scripture Notes app.
Plus the very tiny Druid comment, made me think of the theory of a certain Princess of Israel fleeing to Ireland. Ireland and the UK have had a lit of cross migration. Could Joseph Smith have been descended from an Israeli princess, the line of priesthood follows the female. ????? Lots of questions.
Duuuuudes! This is totally my cup of tea. I freaking love when you have these deep doctrine wizards, like David and Jonah, on. I'm freaking out listening to this. Incredible. Oh, and sidebar, that joke Britney threw in there was genius. We heard you. If you could hear the laughter through the screens I think you'd understand. I choked on my dinner.
Cardon, just when I think the Richard Bushman interview besmeriched your channel, you come out with this and totally and completely redeem yourself! This is amazing and should be shouted from the roof of every single Ward building, yesterday!!! This is the meat that is so missing from my Sunday School Platitudes. The scripture Centeral guys wish they were as cool as your Podcast! Sending this to all my sisters and Mother today!!!!!
Thanks so much for this amazing video; the book of Mormon is alive with important info, the butchers have always been attacking truth since the beginning-that is what happened in the past and it caused the destruction and captivity of Israel and then Judah-Lehi and Nephi were pure and God preserved the most accurate writings for the restoration of the Gospel through Joseph Smith-also a special shout out to David Butler who followed Pres. Nelson,s councell and READS the Book of Mormon, he has developed his talents, shared his finds and does not hide the results-but lets us check and see and reason for ourselves! He is not changing doctrine just showing the possible meanings of the original Hebrew(and I think he is touching on a lot of hidden gems)
A friend who has since left the Church has pointed out to me, the Israelites took Asherath out of temple worship between Isaiah and Lehi's time, it wasn't that big of stretch to then crucify their Messiah, the Son.
That fits right in. I’ve been watching other podcast episodes with Dave Butler and Mike Day, on this channel, The Stick of Joseph, and other channels, and I think they’ve said that the Deuteronomists took over (at least the first time) before Isaiah…. But yep! It still fits!
We want to kiss up to the world council of churches etc snd be accepted by them..... Our church will never teach much about Heavenly Mother out loud! We need to be bold about our believe. The Deuteronimists cast Heavenly Mother away... How are we better? The teaching makes us too different than the other churches but we seem desperate for them to accept us!!
Accept that She should be kept sacred to protect her from being desecrated by mankind. We already know how the people have disrespected God the Father and His Son. We are children of a Father and Mother who love us. God protects Heavenly Mother like the brothers should love and protect their wives and children. Thank you Dave Butler for sharing. The Book of Mormon is a beautiful book of the revealed word.
I personally don’t buy that explanation. Jesus’ sacrifice is supposed to be the most sacred thing in all creation-not a heavenly mother. And if god allows people to mock that, how much more would he allow to mock anything else.
@@hardwork8395 I am not saying that what Christ did wasnt sacred. It most certainly was the most sacred gift that anyone could offer. Jesus Christ offered himself freely giving all glory to the Father knowing that many would hate and despise him. Heavenly Father knew that people would despise His Son, and knew It must be to bring to pass his plan for us. It is the responsibility of men to defend and protect wives and children. I believe Heavenly Mother was kept sacred within the Holy of Holies. I am not saying that evil men didn't remove Her from the temple. I'm saying God kept Her in the most sacred place to protect Her. You can have whatever opinion you chose and so can I.
@@TheAnzianoJones Yeah, that's interesting to be sure. Remember this is not a revelation from God, but Joseph Smith's views. He may not have had the full knowledge yet. We have the advantage of hindsight for the last 200 years. I shall mull this over for one of my shows, thank you for bringing it up! This is just such a great topic, and Dave did so dang good with it.
@@TheBackyardProfessor I will grant you that. It is not labeled as a revelation but as “instructions given by Joseph”. The question then, is there scripture that says she has a physical body more than that of a tree which is historically how Ashera is depicted.
You guys need to have Megan Farner and Gwendolyn wine on together at the same time to talk about divine feminine and the holy order of matrimony and the Order of matriarchal priestess hood.
Seriously? I know there was a sculpture at one point, though I believe it has been moved, but I am not aware of a painting. You do frequently see trees, and always lots of plants.
Every Celestial room has a large plant, and often has plant motiffs around or int he windows, walls, etc. And only women temple workers are found inside the celestial room.
The Idaho Falls Temple Celestial Room has a 360° mural with many women...and men...and angels...and Water...and Trees...and some Sister Temple workers...
There’s some explicit references to Asherah in the Book of Melchizedek. He even uses the term Elohim-Shaddai. He makes reference to the Divine Feminine. I had to look up the word “Keter” and immediately thought of the Tree of Life and “the top thereof” needing to be kept in equal strength with the roots as described in Jacob 5. Seriously Cool Stuff!
One more thing...tree names and stories in other mythologies. Check them out. Here is one...'An apple-tree grew from the grave of the tragic lover Ailinn.' Also read about Ash trees in celtic history. There was also a trinity of trees. Where did all the visionaries flee to? We have one account. Were there others that got absorbed into other cultures?
Please please please do an episode with Dave that discusses his thoughts on what we do with the knowledge of the divine feminine in scripture and in temple worship. How did the Nephites apply this knowledge in their ascension through the three part space? What is the application of this knowledge of the divine feminine?
Taking in the symbolism of the Tree of Life, I can't help but wonder if the mustard seed parable has a deeper meaning than what we might assume. 🤔 Any thoughts? (I am only 35 min into this episode, so I do not know if this comes up later on).
I am drawn to the ways that religions have commonality, and this idea of woman and the tree of life being connected makes me wonder about the possible connection with Greek dryads.
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Deuteronomists: "okay, now we've cut down Asherah and mixed El with Yahweh so we can have strict monotheism. What can possibly go wrong?
* *Jesus descends* * I am Yahweh your God, and I have a Father!
* *GASP* *
* *Joseph Smith jumps out from behind the curtain* * and He also has a Mother!
* *DOUBLE GASP* *
👏🙌🙌🙌🙏❤🔥❤🔥❤🔥❤🔥💪💪🎺🗣📢🔊📣
@@dane_with_swag brilliantly stated
@@dane_with_swag what do you make of D&C 130:22-23 then? Can the father and son have flesh and blood and not the mother also?
@@TheAnzianoJones Heavenly Mother has to be an exalted divine being, The Consort of Elohim. So yes, She does have a body of flesh and bone.
@@dane_with_swag that’s logical but not scriptural as far as we currently have
The statement from the Prophet Joseph comes to mind: “If I Were to Tell You All I Know, You Would Rise Up and Kill Me”
I didn’t see it live. But if people are really saying this is apostasy or they are worried about topics like this, you need to realize that people are allowed to discuss and debate these things and it has nothing to do with salvation.
James E. Talmage had a huge debate with another contemporary apostle (I forget who, sorry) about whether there were any humans prior to Adam. They were called Pre-adamites and the debate went all the way to the First Presidency and they said that the Church had no position but that these topics are “profitable for doctrine”.
So chill out.
“Contemporary Apostle” or…old, balding white guy that works at a 5013C in Utah? 🤔
@@UpriseMusic first off , it’s 501(c)3…second, section 501(c)3 of the tax code didn’t exist until 1969…considering James E Talmage died in 1933, your supposition is unlikely to say the least.
And as a side note, it was likely Joseph Fielding Smith or B H Roberts that he debated, both of whom had full heads of hair with president smith sporting a fantastic beard.
@@UpriseMusic you’ve been infected by the woke mind virus. Seek help. Stay quarantined and slow the spread.
Joseph Feilding Smith is who your looking for
Well said
Just want Brittney to know I heard her ShadRACK pun😂😂
Thank you ❤
*curtsy*
I can’t believe they didn’t lose their heads over that..
Classic reminded me of the deli in Jerusalem “Snack shack Need Shack and to Bed I Go” could lead to an even racier pun, however. 😂
Cardon seemed to like it, too.
Yes we did
I know the restoration is ongoing but I have often thought that additional information on Heavenly Mother and her role is being withheld from us because we are not ready. There are some Latter Day Saints so set in their ways that they would reject additional revelation regarding her out of hand, particularly if it is many of the things that David Butler and others have deduced from their research. Other Christians would use it as fuel to attack us further which might hinder missionary work. There is also a faction in the church that would take additional revelation on Heavenly Mother too far, in my opinion, and would neglect other aspects of the gospel in an effort to be woke and more feminist. I can see people twisting the doctrine to advance a cause or be an activist in the church for modern day woke feminism using this revealed doctrine improperly. I guess what I'm saying is we probably aren't ready for this doctrine and I wonder if we ever will be until we become a Zion people. But, I appreciate David and others inside and outside the church shedding further light and knowledge that helps in my own contemplation of the eternities.
Agreed 💯
I think you’ve just succinctly described why so much of this Ward radio and Stick of Joseph stuff is not being taught. A few short decades ago, the likes of Nibley and McConkie were passing out samples of gospel meat. Since then it seems that, while familiarity with the scriptural text has increased, the culture of the church has regressed to the point of gorging on skim milk. Our leaders are hindered by the Lords requirement that we allow tares and wheat to grow together for a little while longer. I think it takes more scripture study than most will do to reach whole milk. As for graduation from milk to meat, if it can be said that I have reached such a milestone, it is because of the stern but loving rebuke of then Elder Russel M Nelson in October 2016 conference: “The Price of Priesthood Power”. That hit home for me - opened my eyes. Between much fasting and prayer and study and Ward radio and stick of Joseph, my understanding of the temple has just blossomed over the last several weeks. I share Alma’s sin: a deep desire that I could speak with the voice of a trump and shake the saints to a realization of the need to create spiritual power and of how to use it in their everyday challenges! I suppose I will have to settle for offering my testimony, speaking from deep and life-altering experience, that the Lord’s promise is sure: draw near unto me, and I will draw near unto you. Ask and ye shall receive. Knock and it shall be opened unto you. Seek me and ye shall find me! Furthermore I bear this testimony of the Book of Mormon: depending on how we approach it, the BoM is either a nice warm, fuzzy spiritual security blanket to go along with the teddy bear of the knowledge of the First Vision… or it is a manual on how to use the veil of the temple for what it is: a Stargate!
Cardon, for the love of all that's good and holy... You must wear a shirt that says "You know what I'm saying?" Then all you have to do is point!!... You know what I'm saying? 😁💖🤟
Or one that says... you smell what I'm stepping in? 😂
You know what I'm saying Ward Radio T-shirt! 😄
Or 'All right! All Right! All Right!' Keep going mate.
I roll my eyes every time cardon says that! It’s my 90 yr old dad’s Que word for every single sentence! 😂
Boom Shaka Laka
On the latter day disciples podcast the host nails the divine feminine! She noticed that Eve was never commanded to not eat from the tree, Adam was commanded to do that before she even existed. I’ve looked and looked and she’s right. She explains why Eve may have answered satan’s question to the affirmative that “they” we told not to eat from it. Find the presentation she does in someone’s home and you can judge for yourself.
I agree that this new information about our divine mother needs to be talked about and hashed out. No hiding in the church like we already know all we will ever know
I like the "team" version of El Shaddai better. The man is not without the woman in the Lord. The Title should be: "Was Alma a High Priest of the Father and Mother?"
Not clickbait enough
I'll do you one better, they are all...ONE.. its why we get sealed as families.
Often in the Old Testament, references to Adam means 'both' of them.
It's interesting that Joseph was allowed to take the plates once he was married.
This is great content. I think one of the more significant things that was said was when Dave said that basically we have a hard time managing or handling the reality of the mother deity. We either shoot too far or too short. I couldn’t agree more! I think this is the reason why God, the father Doesn’t steer us directly toward her. But if we embrace her fruit, i.e., the Savior, we will arrive at the presence of she and the father. But I think these things are meant to be hidden because they are sacred. So the astute journey taking person Will begin to see the divine family.
When l was young, l asked my Grandmother about Heavenly Mother, and why we don't speak of her often. She said Mother in Heaven's name is sacred. We don't want the non believers to use her name in vein like Father's.
@@sherylfleming3594it’s in the Bible. Asherah is also found in biblical archeology as the consort of El. So it’s really not a question of sacred names here any more than Yahweh or El.
@@anonymouscommenter6829 care to elaborate the questioning sigh?
@@hardwork8395I think it’s referring back to the comment about not taking the name of Shadai in vain…ie, the Father ‘protecting’ the Mother.
@@lthomas7197 Thank you!
What an amazing testimony at the end from Dave, really powerful
There's no such thing as a father without a mother. Think about it. The term "father" means a male who has a child. A child comes from a father and a mother ALWAYS. Therefore, the terms father and mother can't be uttered without the presupposition that the other exists.
So every time you invoke Heavely Father in prayer, you're acknowledging Heavenly Mother's existence as well. EVERY TIME. She listens in on that prayer because They are Elohim.
Elohim is the plural Hebrew word for Gods used in a singular fashion because you can't have one without the other.
One of the best things I’ve seen in my dang life! And the timing of all this ancient knowledge coming to light and being more accessible for the plebs just multiplied my testimony of Christ and the books which we are under condemnation for neglecting. Last half of the last inning kids!
!!!
I interpreted the lost plain and precious things as:
Plain: Christ and Repentance. As far as I recall, every time Nephi speaks “plainly” to his brothers he is calling them to Christ and to repentance
Precious: Heavenly Mother, her love is for Joi’s, her fruit is Christ, just as the fruit of women today is their children. The seeds of fruit plant new trees, just as when we plant the seed of Christ in our heart and feed and water it, we grow ourselves into a tree as our Heavenly Parents. She also seems called out in scriptures as being more precious than rubies.
I really like this it reminds of the More precious than rubies poem in the Bible. I would really like know the underlying Hebrew.
We need a study group to break all this down..
This is literally one of the coolest vids you guys have done!! 👏 👏 ❤ 🙌
The Mother Goddess is always a great topic. I agree, this was a fun discussion.
Dude I wish I had been there to high five Brittany for her Shadrach joke. That was quick
As a TBM… Cardin goes off at 1:49:12 and is completely correct. I think even today, we struggle with not being accepted by the “Christians”. And although we don’t need to worship Ashirah, we don’t have to be afraid and accuse any mention of her as looking beyond the mark. I don’t think we need to teach about her in Sunday School. But those who are on here shaming the panel for even talking about her, when clearly she is present, is lame. Joseph Smith obviously recognized her existence.
In early Christian teachings it was the Mother's voice that acknowledged Jesus. Most fascinating! The early Christian Godhead was Father, Mother, Son.....Margaret Barker is the one who opened my eyes on this one.
I may be wrong here… but I think I figured out why the number seven represents both women and completion. The creation wasn’t completed until our Heavenly Mother had done her part. In Genesis 2:2-3, notice the pun: “asher” translates as “which”.
Amen Brittany. “This planet is ghetto.” Best quote of the day!
This was awesome. Thank you for platforming Dave. He’s fantastic
Dave's testimony at the end was fire 🔥. Very insightful conversation. Thanks guys
Another awesome episode and grateful to learn more and more about the Book of Mormon and getting deep in these doctrinal mysteries and truths.
I love Cardon's rant around 1:49:23. I fully agree.
Remember, the restoration is NOT complete. It is/was not a one time event.
Ha ha ha. The restoration was an event that was not fulfilled see dnc on the completion of the nauvoo temple. There is no where that says that the restoration will continue after a group of murders, containing a few apostles, will continue because 200years after the lord’s prophet is killed, the people of this time, unified under a church, who is controlling the silencing of voices who wish to share more of the gospel revealed a long time ago, wish that their church was being honest true and not asserting their own divine authority to speak for a god who has always spoke clearly for Himself to those who are looking. Continuing restoration, what you need to start with is rejecting the aberrations that the chirch is involved in. Including the usurpation of the catholic idea that salvation only comes through the lds church instead of through Jesus,, Oliver didn’t like this idea either and history calls him a bad guy when he has done much less than what modern church leaders are doing.
I love Dave Butler. I wanna meet that guy and give him a bear hug.
Also gives greater understanding as to why we were under such condemnation for not READING the Book of Mormon
So if the heartland theory is correct, and if the Garden of Eden was in Missouri per Joseph Smith, could the waters of Mormon and the Garden of Eden have been in the same physical location?
Ooooh. That's a fun thought
That was my thought too.
I had the very exact same thought!! Cool that someone else put that together!
I LOVE this idea.
We need to bring back the School of the Prophets that dives into Hebrew, Latin, Greek, and these academic topics in the Book of Mormon and Bible. I'd go.
As an atheist, I just want to say what a baller you are. This world needs more religious people with the enthusiasm you have to read the ancient texts for yourself and stop relying on bad translations-I’m talking about the very inept KJV and other translations here.
Hopefully you get more people excited for the same thing, and to also delve into the DSS and apocryphal texts to see what things you might find there you feel inspired by.
Do language study on our own, the church will never set aside time for it.
Videos with Dave are what get me most excited about Ward radio. Truly the greatest tangible evidence of the BOM in my book.
I hope you read this. The comments in the video about ancient languages being multi-dimensional reminds me of DNA. It has been discovered that DNA is so data dense that when read in one direction the DNA is a valid message but when read in the other direction it is also a valid, yet different message.
What do you propose that message means?
@@beckabuff1 I'm just pointing out that DNA, like language (especially the Adamic language) has the power to communicate much more information that may be immediately obvious.
You can use a tree to purify water by cutting off a branch and putting it in filthy water and it with trough capillary action turn it pure! Very interesting
No offense intended. We no longer say " take out our endowments " We " receive our endowments " words matter. We love you all. I'm cleaning house and listening today
Oh I'm getting "In the language of Adam" this month.
Long overdue discussion. This was great!
We were given the code to understand the Book of Mormon, reformed Egyptian and Hebrew and we never internalized that until now...we could have had so much more information for so much longer if we had been trying to know those languages to better understand the book
This really shifts my thoughts on james 5...if ye lack wisdom...there are a lot of scriptures I would love to review through the lense of the ancient Hebrew
I'm so glad y'all are talking about this because I've been praying how to find out more about my divine role as a woman as patterned after my Heavenly Mother. This is great 👍
In 2 Nephi 7:1 he quotes Isaiah saying, “1 Yea, for thus saith the Lord: Have I put thee away, or have I cast thee off forever? For thus saith the Lord: Where is the bill of your mother’s divorcement? To whom have I put thee away, or to which of my creditors have I sold you? Yea, to whom have I sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away.”
The words mother and divorcement reminded me of the word katar (I think) that you said means to cut off or divorce when they cut down the groves. Super interesting that this verse appears to be talking about us being cut off or divorced from our Mother. I never considered it was our Heavenly Mother, but that is making so much sense after hearing your discussion. Am I reading this wrong?
And because of our sins, is “our mother put away”. Every time we are given the opportunity to know of her we mess it up.
Books with Mike and Dave = Bill and Teds Excellent Adventure
I've been critical of many of your podcasts because the content is so wrong. But this is one I am totally with you. I myself am beginning a series on Heavenly Mother because I have always thought this is a gem of theology. Your info here, especially the Hebrew Dave brought out, was stellar. I also read and study the Hebrew and I heard nothing here out of line. Again, as a critic (and justified in tweaking you on some of your content) I stand behind you here on this superb analysis. Ignore the haters, they come from ignorance. Dave got it right. I'd love to talk with him on this subject on my show. My respect for him has gone up enormously. This was inspiring to me. Thank you sincerely. Cardon you're a little wild at times, but it is fun as well.
Could this be one of the things the Prophet Joseph knew when he said if I told you all I knew you would want to kill me?
Interesting conversation. In Luke Anna is referred to as a prophetess who praises christ birth at temple. It says she is from the tribe of Asher. Asherites were known for their beautiful women, fertile land, and wisdom. Thanks for the podcast. Peace to all.
❤
How blessed are they… a reference to the endowment on the Mount (see Matt 5-7). (The endowment on the Mount can be broken down into five laws.) Notice other references to the endowment in Mosiah 18… becoming children of God, walking “ashray” before God… verses 27-28 are beatitudes. I have to think that upon being discovered by the king, they packed up their tents… was one of those tents a tabernacle?
The most plain and precious thing taken out of the scriptures of which Nephi saw was the name of Jesus Christ. As you read the old testiment no were do you read the name Jesus Christ.
But in the Book of Mormon the name of Christ is all over from its very first book of Nephi and they lived in old testiment times.
Right out of Dads womb Dave you killed me 😂 😆 😂
😂🤣
Don't forget that President Nelson was greatly impressed by the Saviour to use the correct name of the Church, also President Nelson loves women dearly
I think we shouldn’t focus on things like names. It’s so pedantic. Just live your Christ centered lives because no one really cares as much as the few in Mormonism. I’m on the outside and I can tell you we don’t care. Lots of people think you guys are nice and we will continue to call you Mormons. But if you insist on correcting people all the time to say what you want us to say, people will think it’s annoying and petty.
Thank you guys and Brittany… so much to consider!
Hurry with those War in Heaven hats! I just got called to be a Ward Missionary. 😂
It will always amaze me how the ancient prophets played the same word games that Shady would if he wrote the scriptures
The restored and modern scriptures asr very clear that the office of God is, and only can be, a dualistic balance of male and female united and working in harmony.
This discussion is just a further illustration of those truths.
When I pray to, or meditate upon God I automatically sense the two. The Father and his consort.
And yes, protestantism is a problem.
The temple endowment makes it pretty clear as is. I dine even know how people don’t see it.
You are so correct. Protestantization is a scourge in the Church.
Anyone who thinks we know everything about the priesthood has likely missed Spencer W Kimball's April 1974 general conference address, "Our Great Potential."
Cardon and the rest of the crew,
You guys are awesome! This was amazing!
Dave, Bought your book when it first came out and my testimony in the Restoration of the Gospel and the Book of Mormon has never been stronger. Your study into the “ghost” of the Book of Mormon has connected many archeological and mythological puzzle pieces for me and I am deeply grateful.
Also, you mentioned you haven’t figured the meaning behind Mormon. I have a theory that lines up nicely with the tenets of your book as well as this episode.
Not enough to go in great detail, but I would look at the connection of the following related Hebrew words to the temple and Garden of Eden:
Mor (myrrh), man (manna), ma’on (dwelling, or refuge).
There are 5 temples in Australia currently the one in your photo is Sydney, The second temple Dedicated was Adelaide then Melbourne Perth and Brisbane. Last conference President Nelson announced another temple for Brisbane. I have served in all the temples in Australia accept Perth because it is 2680km (1665 miles) from where I live. I love the temple and I am enjoying your show. I am new to it from Australia & I have hit the subscribe and like buttons.
Hello friend in Australia! ❤ from Utah
Could we get a Jewish Rabbi that is friendly towards the church - to come on and talk about this from the Jewish perspective? I know there is a Rabbi that goes to general conference regularly. Thanks guys!
Rabbi Joe. He does videos with (I think) scripture central on each come follow me lesson recently
Mind blown 🤯
This is SOOO.... AWESOME!! Keep giving us info. Love this stuff y'all!! I want to be able to understand more. Btw, I got Dave's book, "In the language of Adam".. 🙏❤️⚘️
I LOVE THIS!!! I can't wait for Mike & Dave Do Books! 😊💚
This is friggin amazing!! Thanks for the amazing content!!
This is interesting so just as Adam is an archetype of God the Father, Mary is an archetype of Heavenly Mother as well as Eve.
If Adam is an archetype of God why wouldn't Eve be archetype of of Heavely Mother?
@@devinnelson5410 Yes she definitely is as well.
The respect of Women ...last will be first: takes on a new feeling from The Fathers own details..Mother of all living. The Book of Mormon is God's love open letters unto us. Thank u for the opportunity of these discussions
Love coming to gospel Doctrine. Thanks guys!
Dave needs to do an ancient Hebrew class on the letters of the Hebrew alphabet and its meaning! It would be so amazing! PLEASE🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
This is next level, going back to the Hebrew and seeing reasoning behind other translations, etc. Nothing wrong with that, and actually something that the Father would expect of us, using tools now available. Joseph Smith gave us that example.
As an atheist, I agree. Use all the best available modern tools. We know Hebrew, Aramaic, Koine NT Greek, etc far better now than ever thanks to many advancements in scholarship. We also have scholarly reconstructions of biblical texts for your perusal (Nestle-Aland NT, etc), so you can see variant readings in verses from different papyri, etc, for yourself.
This allows you to make your own careful determinations, which in your case would include prayerful consideration, into what you feel the text likely said.
It’s exciting times we live in.
Ward Radio should have a version of the school of the prophets and all we do is study Hebrew
"The future is dualistic" love this so much. To become as a God male and female must join together as one. I can't help but feel any attempt to create a schism between the genders is doing Satan's work and moving us away from God. I think it 8s important to accept people as God created them, with their own individual strengths, and not impose manmade restrictions on them, and important distinction. I don't think doing that takes away from the focus on the divine. This was an amazing episode.
Heavenly Father said we are not to be commanded in all things and so I believe he expects us to think for ourselves bc he gave us our brains! Thanks for sharing! If it scares some.. we were not given the spirit of fear, but of love power and a sound mind! 🎉 There is a song El Shaddai Adoni?
Just a minor aside: “adoni” is apparently also a plural 😊
I will say that like a few weeks ago I was saying a prayer, and was kind of putting aside any of the feminine/tree stuff because I was getting flustered, but in this prayer (about something totally different) I just kinda felt a little nudge to “ask about the tree,” to which I was like “whyyyy?” And again felt, “just ask about the tree,” so I was like, “fine, can the tree be a symbol of the Divine Feminine?” And I felt a very calm and succinct, “yes.” I’m still not totally comfortable going all the way to Ashera (but the happy/blessed puns are quite convincing), but I am comfortable with the tree being a feminine symbol as well as a symbol of Christ (it is through Him that we can attain eternal life, after all; but He exists and came to mortality to do what He had to do, by the love and grace of Elohim, which includes both Father and Mother).
Is there a link or some other way to access the LDS Apocrypha database I believe I heard mentioned? Because I had been thinking about making a public-facing such resource before. UPDATE: Just heard the part about how the Apocrypha is getting added to the Scripture Notes app.
Plus the very tiny Druid comment, made me think of the theory of a certain Princess of Israel fleeing to Ireland. Ireland and the UK have had a lit of cross migration. Could Joseph Smith have been descended from an Israeli princess, the line of priesthood follows the female. ????? Lots of questions.
Duuuuudes! This is totally my cup of tea. I freaking love when you have these deep doctrine wizards, like David and Jonah, on. I'm freaking out listening to this. Incredible. Oh, and sidebar, that joke Britney threw in there was genius. We heard you. If you could hear the laughter through the screens I think you'd understand. I choked on my dinner.
This is eye opening
Cardon, just when I think the Richard Bushman interview besmeriched your channel, you come out with this and totally and completely redeem yourself! This is amazing and should be shouted from the roof of every single Ward building, yesterday!!! This is the meat that is so missing from my Sunday School Platitudes.
The scripture Centeral guys wish they were as cool as your Podcast!
Sending this to all my sisters and Mother today!!!!!
1:47:42 here it is good to note that baptism is one of only two ordinances that involve the entire godhead…. Just as is suggested by Alma….
Thanks so much for this amazing video; the book of Mormon is alive with important info, the butchers have always been attacking truth since the beginning-that is what happened in the past and it caused the destruction and captivity of Israel and then Judah-Lehi and Nephi were pure and God preserved the most accurate writings for the restoration of the Gospel through Joseph Smith-also a special shout out to David Butler who followed Pres. Nelson,s councell and READS the Book of Mormon, he has developed his talents, shared his finds and does not hide the results-but lets us check and see and reason for ourselves! He is not changing doctrine just showing the possible meanings of the original Hebrew(and I think he is touching on a lot of hidden gems)
I see Chief Midegah's teachings reflected in this💯🥰
Stewart, you’re right on! 🌟
A friend who has since left the Church has pointed out to me, the Israelites took Asherath out of temple worship between Isaiah and Lehi's time, it wasn't that big of stretch to then crucify their Messiah, the Son.
It’s far more complicated than what most Christians think: They bottom line it, as though it was so unifaceted
That fits right in.
I’ve been watching other podcast episodes with Dave Butler and Mike Day, on this channel, The Stick of Joseph, and other channels, and I think they’ve said that the Deuteronomists took over (at least the first time) before Isaiah…. But yep! It still fits!
We want to kiss up to the world council of churches etc snd be accepted by them..... Our church will never teach much about Heavenly Mother out loud! We need to be bold about our believe. The Deuteronimists cast Heavenly Mother away... How are we better? The teaching makes us too different than the other churches but we seem desperate for them to accept us!!
Love this!!!!!
1:31:24 - Yes! Truth!
This is awesome!!
We do the same today when we baptize but it goes over the head of all.
Accept that She should be kept sacred to protect her from being desecrated by mankind. We already know how the people have disrespected God the Father and His Son. We are children of a Father and Mother who love us. God protects Heavenly Mother like the brothers should love and protect their wives and children. Thank you Dave Butler for sharing. The Book of Mormon is a beautiful book of the revealed word.
I personally don’t buy that explanation.
Jesus’ sacrifice is supposed to be the most sacred thing in all creation-not a heavenly mother.
And if god allows people to mock that, how much more would he allow to mock anything else.
@@hardwork8395 I am not saying that what Christ did wasnt sacred. It most certainly was the most sacred gift that anyone could offer. Jesus Christ offered himself freely giving all glory to the Father knowing that many would hate and despise him. Heavenly Father knew that people would despise His Son, and knew It must be to bring to pass his plan for us. It is the responsibility of men to defend and protect wives and children. I believe Heavenly Mother was kept sacred within the Holy of Holies. I am not saying that evil men didn't remove Her from the temple. I'm saying God kept Her in the most sacred place to protect Her. You can have whatever opinion you chose and so can I.
I love Dave by the way, very cool
So, if Dave Butler is correct, then The Plan of Happiness is the Plan of Heavenly Mother
Along with her husband, since they are, after all one God..... but the woman is definitely involved
Of course. Because she is one with God.
@@TheBackyardProfessor my only problem with Heavenly Mother being the Holy Ghost is D&C 130: 22-23
@@TheAnzianoJones Yeah, that's interesting to be sure. Remember this is not a revelation from God, but Joseph Smith's views. He may not have had the full knowledge yet. We have the advantage of hindsight for the last 200 years. I shall mull this over for one of my shows, thank you for bringing it up! This is just such a great topic, and Dave did so dang good with it.
@@TheBackyardProfessor I will grant you that. It is not labeled as a revelation but as “instructions given by Joseph”. The question then, is there scripture that says she has a physical body more than that of a tree which is historically how Ashera is depicted.
I love all this. 🥰
You guys need to have Megan Farner and Gwendolyn wine on together at the same time to talk about divine feminine and the holy order of matrimony and the Order of matriarchal priestess hood.
WOW in the SLC temple in the celestial room there is a painting of a woman.
Seriously? I know there was a sculpture at one point, though I believe it has been moved, but I am not aware of a painting. You do frequently see trees, and always lots of plants.
Every Celestial room has a large plant, and often has plant motiffs around or int he windows, walls, etc. And only women temple workers are found inside the celestial room.
The Idaho Falls Temple Celestial Room has a 360° mural with many women...and men...and angels...and Water...and Trees...and some Sister Temple workers...
@@cerimoore3577you are correct a female angle statue was over the vail trim border. See Utah Temple a Monument to a People
Last I was there, when in the celestial room, looking back at the arch there was a female figure at the top of the arch
Can’t believe I missed the live stream.
There’s some explicit references to Asherah in the Book of Melchizedek. He even uses the term Elohim-Shaddai. He makes reference to the Divine Feminine. I had to look up the word “Keter” and immediately thought of the Tree of Life and “the top thereof” needing to be kept in equal strength with the roots as described in Jacob 5. Seriously Cool Stuff!
It's like Mike and Dave have their movie much like Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure. Would be totally funny if they punned on that 😂.
What is the composition of the Ward Radio T-shirt? Is it all cotton or 50/50 cotton/polyester?
Very cool
We are not the rebellion. We are further light And knowledge.
Wow explained so clearly and my sentiments to a T.
Interesting to think… when Daniel was in the lion’s den… was it his Heavenly Mother there saying “Nice kitty! Don’t eat the prophet?”
One more thing...tree names and stories in other mythologies. Check them out. Here is one...'An apple-tree grew from the grave of the tragic lover Ailinn.' Also read about Ash trees in celtic history. There was also a trinity of trees.
Where did all the visionaries flee to? We have one account. Were there others that got absorbed into other cultures?
“The mother of…___…living”… Eve as a type of HM.
Fertility superlative, conceptually. Woah… 1:03:00
🙌🏻🙌🏻
Please please please do an episode with Dave that discusses his thoughts on what we do with the knowledge of the divine feminine in scripture and in temple worship. How did the Nephites apply this knowledge in their ascension through the three part space? What is the application of this knowledge of the divine feminine?
Taking in the symbolism of the Tree of Life, I can't help but wonder if the mustard seed parable has a deeper meaning than what we might assume. 🤔
Any thoughts?
(I am only 35 min into this episode, so I do not know if this comes up later on).
Volcon salute looks like the compass and square.
Okay what. MIND BLOWN. 💥
How do we access Jonas apocrypha data base
I am drawn to the ways that religions have commonality, and this idea of woman and the tree of life being connected makes me wonder about the possible connection with Greek dryads.
🤔😔🤯