This was by far the best video I've seen on this topic. I was going to do the same experiment last year but didn't get around to it. Thank you for all the work you put into this and posting it for us to learn from. Very professional. So happy I subscribed recently.
Just a note: If you want a darker black color. Take black tea (3 bags to quart) let it set and seep. Brush on black tea first let dry then brush on iron solution. Let dry then repeat. The black tea adds tannins to the wood for the iron solution to react more. You can get almost a black stain from doing this. I've done this with three coats then seal with Lacquer or Oil base Urethane. Do not use water based urethane, it will remove some of the black stain.
Tannic acid is also a useful ingredient to restore rusted iron. If you mix up a solution of tannic acid from ground up tree bark or even a strong tea and distilled water you can soak your rusted piece of iron in it and it will help turn the red iron oxide into the more stable black iron oxide. I have a suspicion that one of the proprietary ingredients in EvapoRust is tannic acid but I'm not a chemist and there are multiple different chemicals that can act as a chelating agent for rust.
I remember many years ago when I first came to Australia and began working with Jarrah and found that after working in the shed I had black stains on me and, if working hard and sweating, on the timber. Soap and water didn't help but someone on a forum suggested vinegar to remove the stain. I was sceptical but it worked!
I trie a piece of oak with this method. I didn’t put a lot of effort in making the solution and had just an old piece of steel wool which was used. The result on my oak piece was fabulous. It looks really beautiful dark grey.
I learned from a local work worker that this stain causes the wood pores to mildly tighten similar to shou sugi ban wood. That's why more than one coat causes the iron to sit on the surface once dry.
Really interesting results. It's beneficial to know that you dont have to have strong solution to have effect on wood if youre going to stain your whole floor for example. Thanks!
The thoroughness of this video is literally almost all you need if you want try this staining process out. You pretty much answered every question I had. One more question, do you ever have to reapply this or see it permanently stay stained this color? It’s beautiful!
I have only ever used the iron acetate solution on red oak, and loved the resultant color. From what I understand, this is the method used by Gustav Stickley to stain his oak pieces. Thanks for showing how it performs on all those different species of wood.
Darben thank you for this video I’m getting into staining wood and this helps a lot since stains are so expensive and many times you really can’t find what you are looking for. Very very kool 👍🏼
For pine, oak: I boiled my vinegar, used that. Then put in steel wool, and left it for 0,1, 2, 3 hours, testing each hour. Each of them stained the wood grey, even the neat vinegar. There was minor, very minor difference between 0-2hrs. Only on 3 hour did the difference become visible, and it was about 30% different. Boiling the vinegar speeds everything up hugely.
Great video, thanks. I'm currently using it for my guitar projects, and it's amazing. Mahogany, Basswood and Maple so far. I apply it several times then several coats of Linseed Oil topped with beeswax. Results are beautiful.
Excellent. In fact, any iron or steel can be used (eg old nails, screws etc.) and any acid (eg battery) but vinegar is a fairly “harmless” acid in the dilutions that that can be bought.
Super informative video -- love your inquisitive approach and testing so many variations! Thank you -- off to ebonize my own project this week. Looking forward to more videos from you now that I've subscribed. 😀
Pine/fir becomes a wonderful grey/green color if you use coffee as your tannin source. Why coffee becomes green is beyond my understanding :) Using baking soda can bring out a purpleish hue as well
I’ve done lots of experimentation in combining redwood and cedar fence boards as rustic looking boards around my house. Some are combined with other stain products and some are left with just the iron mix. It really shows well on redwood that has knots and sapwood
Pretty interesting experiment, Linn! Thanks for sharing! 😃 I'm definitely going to try it! For small parts, just to add some contrast to the project, it seems like a fantastic idea! Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
thank you so much for this great video. I have been thinking of using this technique on a large piece of oak butcher block and your wall piece has given me a great preview.
Thank you Darbin, this was such a helpful video! I've been given the task to create some dark outdoor furniture for a public venue and I really wanted to avoid painting, for both the uniformity that it gives and the chip-ability (since it will be getting a lot of use). I'm going to go out and make a big batch of this today and in a couple of weeks see what effect this has on Padoek!
It would have been interesting if you had had,as one of your examples, old pallet wood. I made this a couple of years ago and used it on something I made out of old pallet planks. I just loved the grey color it changed the wood to.
They sell tannin powder for wine. You can solve it to water and add tannin to your wood before ironoxide. As a result you you get black (the process is called ebonizing) ps only mix small patches of tannin cause it goes bad in a jar.
The answer to the tannin content of each wood species could be in the book “Wood Handbook” which is also online, but I haven’t looked at it to check. There is a lot of technical information in that book.
If you have some worn out files, use the vinegar to etch and deepen the grooves in your files. Scrub them off with a fine brush and soapy water and rinse well, then coat in WD-40 to prevent rusting. Some clean up in as little as a day of soaking, while others may need up to 5 days. Filter the chunks of rust out of the waste solution with a coffee filter and you have iron acetate without wasting your useful steel wool. The benefit of doing this is getting a second life out of your files and you have a useful byproduct to stain your wood.
I am waiting for fire season to turn a variety of sticks (pine oak redwood juniper ++) into artist's charcoal. i am very interested in seeing the different tones this solution will create on my stick collection. If im understanding, the darker ones will have more tannins in the wood. I have an old picket fence that has new repairs I'd like to match with the old. Then the experiments begin. Thank you for the inspiration.
@@LitoGeorge I'm not sure about those two woods. In the class I took we only tested it on Mahogany and the results really surprised me. It turned the rather light mahogany the deep red brown color it gets when aged. So on my next project I tested it on oak and got similar, very pleasing results. I'm guessing it was reacted with the tannins in the wood. The vinegar+steel wool+tea may work better on pine.
@@bbchops919 thanks Jim - thats interesting. I have tried 15+ variations of the vinegar/swool/tea (and coffee) mixtures on the pine I'm working on, and they all come out a grey and then black colour. Not quite what I am looking for. Years ago I did something similar on pine from the Maritime provinces and it went deep brown to my surprise. I wish I could remember the combo I used but pretty certain it was iron acetate (vinegar/swool). I am keen to use household items that are safe rather than chemical based solutions. Lye can be obtained by putting water through wood ash and then evaporating the water.
I know from cyanotyping that earl grey specifically has a lot of oils in it and is not recommended for toning/ adding tannins in that process, at least. I wonder if there would be a difference in green tea or regular black tea tannins in addition or instant coffee? I wonder too if bleaching prior to toning with these tannins would yield different results...Time for me to experiment as well! Thanks for the inspiration!
Since easter is coming around again...have you ever tried dying hard boiled eggs with dried onion skins? That I am assuming also has some tanins or something that causes the cool designs, so maybe onion skins could be used for some of this type fun as well.
And the onion skins I am thinking of were the brownish ones, not the ones from white onions. I remember lots of super weird and cool colors and patterns that got on the eggs when we did it like that when I was a kid.
I tried this with white wine vinegar (which was all I had) but the steel wool would not dissolve. Then I tried again with distilled white vinegar and it worked great.
i did this with pine. i used the coffee 0000 steel wool. the pine turned a grey color but once i put clear on it it changed to a nice deep brown. The only issue with pine is the total inconsistency of color for me
Loved your approach. I heard about this process from a wood worker at an art festival and wanted to learn more. Did you put a clear coat over the finished piece? If so, was it water or oil based?
If you didn't have a tannin rich wood to work with, it might work better to firstly stain the would with tea to increase the tannin content before adding the iron solution.
Lovely but it's advisable to strain da stain solution to prevent fine steel wool from sticking on to da wood. When u making da solution leave da lid slightly open to prevent gas build up.
I found with my own experiments on pine that the redish colour you get when you add more coats appears to be oxidised, dried solution sitting on the surface of the wood. Wiping that residue off with a damp cloth leaves a more natural 'aged pine' look. I wonder what happens if you wipe this residue off of the hardwoods?
How old is Darbin now? He sure seemed to struggle getting up on the couch! 🥺 Your oldest video is 9 years old and you named the channel after him, so he's at least that old. 🤔
Have ever tried a black walnut husk stain? makes a nice brown stain on wood and cloth you don't have to just use steel wool any rusty items can work, Just need to use vinegar
I'm playing around with a bunch of different plants for fabric dyeing... and I wish I had a walnut tree nearby because walnut husks seem interesting for a lot of things!
Can you add water to the steel wool/vinegar solution in the first place to get it diluted right from the start? Or does that affect the chemical reaction of the vinegar on the iron?
Would not recommend it. Just make it and dilute it later. Compare it with cooking. You don't throw a bunch of salt in your food before tasting/boiling it. It mide be too much. And you would notice after. At Wich point you can throw away the whole dish
What happens if you treat with TANNIN first? (How much darker is it with various dilutions as before?) What happens if you sand it after treating? (to smooth out the wood again.) What effects are made when trying to add a finish such as varnish, shellac, Linseed oil, beeswax, Wipe-on Poly, etc to these different mixes of stains?
I made my gun stock black unintentionally, I used steel wool and vinegar and rubbing alcohol to remove the old finish but it turned black, how can I get rid of black stain? Thanks
8 pack on Amazon claims to be .8 oz, math works to .1 oz for an individual. Would've guessed the ones I've used in the past that come with cleaning solution in them are about .5 oz. Amazon math seems to be in the ballpark for ones without solution in them.
Also, my experience is that the tannin content can vary considerably between heartwood and sapwood. In particular, with white oak, the color change in heartwood is nice, but the sapwood is rather anemic. Probably not an issue on flatwork from milled boards, but could be a concern for turners who harvest their own timber.
Love ebonizing. But, developed in the 16th century, it is nowhere near being the oldest natural wood stain. Using oils and organic pigments for wood staining can be traced back to ancient civilizations.
This was by far the best video I've seen on this topic. I was going to do the same experiment last year but didn't get around to it. Thank you for all the work you put into this and posting it for us to learn from. Very professional. So happy I subscribed recently.
Appreciate it! Thanks so much!
Just a note: If you want a darker black color. Take black tea (3 bags to quart) let it set and seep.
Brush on black tea first let dry then brush on iron solution. Let dry then repeat.
The black tea adds tannins to the wood for the iron solution to react more. You can get almost a black stain from doing this. I've done this with three coats then seal with Lacquer or Oil base Urethane. Do not use water based urethane, it will remove some of the black stain.
Good points. I was thinking of just adding black tea to the vinegar/ steel wool mixture, but it makes more sense to do the tea first. Thanks.
Very informative video. I love your semi- scientific approach!
Bravo. I miss these kinds of videos on TH-cam. Informational and pure, not commercial, something like a good, homemade video. Thank you for that.
Tannic acid is also a useful ingredient to restore rusted iron. If you mix up a solution of tannic acid from ground up tree bark or even a strong tea and distilled water you can soak your rusted piece of iron in it and it will help turn the red iron oxide into the more stable black iron oxide. I have a suspicion that one of the proprietary ingredients in EvapoRust is tannic acid but I'm not a chemist and there are multiple different chemicals that can act as a chelating agent for rust.
I remember many years ago when I first came to Australia and began working with Jarrah and found that after working in the shed I had black stains on me and, if working hard and sweating, on the timber. Soap and water didn't help but someone on a forum suggested vinegar to remove the stain. I was sceptical but it worked!
I trie a piece of oak with this method. I didn’t put a lot of effort in making the solution and had just an old piece of steel wool which was used. The result on my oak piece was fabulous. It looks really beautiful dark grey.
I learned from a local work worker that this stain causes the wood pores to mildly tighten similar to shou sugi ban wood. That's why more than one coat causes the iron to sit on the surface once dry.
Really interesting results. It's beneficial to know that you dont have to have strong solution to have effect on wood if youre going to stain your whole floor for example. Thanks!
Really loved your thought process plus his clear your instructions are. I enjoyed the whole thing. Quality content.
The thoroughness of this video is literally almost all you need if you want try this staining process out. You pretty much answered every question I had.
One more question, do you ever have to reapply this or see it permanently stay stained this color? It’s beautiful!
I have only ever used the iron acetate solution on red oak, and loved the resultant color. From what I understand, this is the method used by Gustav Stickley to stain his oak pieces. Thanks for showing how it performs on all those different species of wood.
Brilliant video. This is how youtube videos should be made.
Thank you! :)
Darben thank you for this video
I’m getting into staining wood and this helps a lot since stains are so expensive and many times you really can’t find what you are looking for.
Very very kool 👍🏼
For pine, oak: I boiled my vinegar, used that. Then put in steel wool, and left it for 0,1, 2, 3 hours, testing each hour. Each of them stained the wood grey, even the neat vinegar. There was minor, very minor difference between 0-2hrs. Only on 3 hour did the difference become visible, and it was about 30% different. Boiling the vinegar speeds everything up hugely.
Interesting!
Thanks for the tip. I would not have thought of boiling the vinegar first. 👏👏👏👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Why does boiling the vinegar help?
Great video, thanks. I'm currently using it for my guitar projects, and it's amazing. Mahogany, Basswood and Maple so far. I apply it several times then several coats of Linseed Oil topped with beeswax. Results are beautiful.
Love the reaction with the wood. But how do we mimic proper patina. Something that will accept a scratch test. That's the big kicker
Excellent. In fact, any iron or steel can be used (eg old nails, screws etc.) and any acid (eg battery) but vinegar is a fairly “harmless” acid in the dilutions that that can be bought.
Super informative video -- love your inquisitive approach and testing so many variations!
Thank you -- off to ebonize my own project this week.
Looking forward to more videos from you now that I've subscribed. 😀
Thanks so much for the nice feedback. Good luck with your project :)
Pine/fir becomes a wonderful grey/green color if you use coffee as your tannin source. Why coffee becomes green is beyond my understanding :)
Using baking soda can bring out a purpleish hue as well
Interesting!
I once left a copper coin on my oak kitchen countertop. That left a green stain as well.
I’ve done lots of experimentation in combining redwood and cedar fence boards as rustic looking boards around my house. Some are combined with other stain products and some are left with just the iron mix.
It really shows well on redwood that has knots and sapwood
very good informative video. all the "what ifs" I had are answered.
By far the best video on the topic. Many thanks!
Oh, I love the cooler, grey color of the cloth!
Pretty interesting experiment, Linn! Thanks for sharing! 😃
I'm definitely going to try it! For small parts, just to add some contrast to the project, it seems like a fantastic idea!
Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
I REALLY*love* your acorn dyed fabric. That is going to happen in my household when the next session comes.
Those fabric colors are my jam. Just lovely!
Thanks Trevor! It's been so much fun getting different colors on fabric.
Very well documented, explained, tested
Bravo, thank you
Thank you exactly what I am looking for my projects
I have used this technique on several wood species and it has always worked. My favorite was on Redwood.
thank you so much for this great video. I have been thinking of using this technique on a large piece of oak butcher block and your wall piece has given me a great preview.
Good vid. I like the contrasts on your finished project.
Thank you Darbin, this was such a helpful video!
I've been given the task to create some dark outdoor furniture for a public venue and I really wanted to avoid painting, for both the uniformity that it gives and the chip-ability (since it will be getting a lot of use). I'm going to go out and make a big batch of this today and in a couple of weeks see what effect this has on Padoek!
Very helpful! Might do this on a floor or some handrails
So cool, I think I’m going to use this technique for the desk I’m building
beautiful! I will definitely try this. Thank you!
In leather we can this “vinagroon’. It dies the leather black all the way through without bleeding back out on the user.
this is a amazing video , this is so economical and natural . Thank you
It would have been interesting if you had had,as one of your examples, old pallet wood. I made this a couple of years ago and used it on something I made out of old pallet planks. I just loved the grey color it changed the wood to.
They sell tannin powder for wine. You can solve it to water and add tannin to your wood before ironoxide. As a result you you get black (the process is called ebonizing) ps only mix small patches of tannin cause it goes bad in a jar.
Yes! Tannin really helps with the process.
Reminds me of the Eco Wood stain. Thanks for sharing.
THIS IS THE BEST VIDEO! LIKE A SCIENTIST!!! THX!
Very interesting! I wonder what different metals would do? Such as copper shavings or aluminium foil strips :)
The answer to the tannin content of each wood species could be in the book “Wood Handbook” which is also online, but I haven’t looked at it to check. There is a lot of technical information in that book.
I believe you're supposed to apply the tannin tea first to the wood and then put the iron mix overtop so it can interact. :)
If you have some worn out files, use the vinegar to etch and deepen the grooves in your files. Scrub them off with a fine brush and soapy water and rinse well, then coat in WD-40 to prevent rusting. Some clean up in as little as a day of soaking, while others may need up to 5 days. Filter the chunks of rust out of the waste solution with a coffee filter and you have iron acetate without wasting your useful steel wool. The benefit of doing this is getting a second life out of your files and you have a useful byproduct to stain your wood.
I am waiting for fire season to turn a variety of sticks (pine oak redwood juniper ++) into artist's charcoal. i am very interested in seeing the different tones this solution will create on my stick collection. If im understanding, the darker ones will have more tannins in the wood.
I have an old picket fence that has new repairs I'd like to match with the old. Then the experiments begin. Thank you for the inspiration.
You have an uniquely wonderful mind. Thank you! ❤
This was so interesting, had no idea.
Household lye also colors wood in interesting ways. I've used it to turn mahogany and white oak a deep warm red-brown.
Interesting! Any experience in what effect it has on yellow and white pine? I'm looking to turn it into dark brown, without chemical based stain.
@@LitoGeorge I'm not sure about those two woods. In the class I took we only tested it on Mahogany and the results really surprised me. It turned the rather light mahogany the deep red brown color it gets when aged. So on my next project I tested it on oak and got similar, very pleasing results. I'm guessing it was reacted with the tannins in the wood. The vinegar+steel wool+tea may work better on pine.
@@bbchops919 thanks Jim - thats interesting. I have tried 15+ variations of the vinegar/swool/tea (and coffee) mixtures on the pine I'm working on, and they all come out a grey and then black colour. Not quite what I am looking for. Years ago I did something similar on pine from the Maritime provinces and it went deep brown to my surprise. I wish I could remember the combo I used but pretty certain it was iron acetate (vinegar/swool). I am keen to use household items that are safe rather than chemical based solutions. Lye can be obtained by putting water through wood ash and then evaporating the water.
I know from cyanotyping that earl grey specifically has a lot of oils in it and is not recommended for toning/ adding tannins in that process, at least. I wonder if there would be a difference in green tea or regular black tea tannins in addition or instant coffee? I wonder too if bleaching prior to toning with these tannins would yield different results...Time for me to experiment as well! Thanks for the inspiration!
amazing technology from the past
Tack för tipset Linn, stålull & vinäger. Ska testas🙌
Kul!
God bless you, 1 Q tho, Is the staining process alone enough or do i need something extra like wax for the longevity of the wood.
I think I’m going to try this on my guitar neck
Very helpful, thanks! I wonder if sanding to different grits would make a color difference?
Since easter is coming around again...have you ever tried dying hard boiled eggs with dried onion skins? That I am assuming also has some tanins or something that causes the cool designs, so maybe onion skins could be used for some of this type fun as well.
And the onion skins I am thinking of were the brownish ones, not the ones from white onions. I remember lots of super weird and cool colors and patterns that got on the eggs when we did it like that when I was a kid.
This is a fantastic video thank you ma’am
bonne et heureuse année darbin et en plus vous débutez bien l année c est superbe j adore patrick
I love watching your videos
Thank you! 😄
Another common one my Grandfather used to use was "tea" as in cup of. gave a light brown colour.
This was fantastic thank you
I tried this with white wine vinegar (which was all I had) but the steel wool would not dissolve. Then I tried again with distilled white vinegar and it worked great.
Very informative and interesting, EXCELLENT
Thank You!
Will the iron mixture stain concrete?
i did this with pine. i used the coffee 0000 steel wool. the pine turned a grey color but once i put clear on it it changed to a nice deep brown. The only issue with pine is the total inconsistency of color for me
Loved your approach. I heard about this process from a wood worker at an art festival and wanted to learn more. Did you put a clear coat over the finished piece? If so, was it water or oil based?
If you didn't have a tannin rich wood to work with, it might work better to firstly stain the would with tea to increase the tannin content before adding the iron solution.
Ser ut som björk i mina ögon. Bra video btw. 🙂👍
Lovely but it's advisable to strain da stain solution to prevent fine steel wool from sticking on to da wood. When u making da solution leave da lid slightly open to prevent gas build up.
I found with my own experiments on pine that the redish colour you get when you add more coats appears to be oxidised, dried solution sitting on the surface of the wood. Wiping that residue off with a damp cloth leaves a more natural 'aged pine' look. I wonder what happens if you wipe this residue off of the hardwoods?
Nice video 🙌
Tack! 😄
I wonder if these tannins would work with toning my cyanotypes after bleaching. Love it when my hobbies come together in unique ways
How old is Darbin now? He sure seemed to struggle getting up on the couch! 🥺 Your oldest video is 9 years old and you named the channel after him, so he's at least that old. 🤔
Have ever tried a black walnut husk stain? makes a nice brown stain on wood and cloth
you don't have to just use steel wool any rusty items can work, Just need to use vinegar
I'm playing around with a bunch of different plants for fabric dyeing... and I wish I had a walnut tree nearby because walnut husks seem interesting for a lot of things!
❤Have you tried Walnut or fir
Poplar will turn a deep brown
Interesting!
Can you add water to the steel wool/vinegar solution in the first place to get it diluted right from the start? Or does that affect the chemical reaction of the vinegar on the iron?
Would not recommend it. Just make it and dilute it later. Compare it with cooking. You don't throw a bunch of salt in your food before tasting/boiling it. It mide be too much. And you would notice after. At Wich point you can throw away the whole dish
What happens if you treat with TANNIN first? (How much darker is it with various dilutions as before?) What happens if you sand it after treating? (to smooth out the wood again.) What effects are made when trying to add a finish such as varnish, shellac, Linseed oil, beeswax, Wipe-on Poly, etc to these different mixes of stains?
Why not add a couple of tea bags to the original mix of steel wool and vinegar and let the tannins set up?
What if you added the tannins before you did the stain?
I made my gun stock black unintentionally, I used steel wool and vinegar and rubbing alcohol to remove the old finish but it turned black, how can I get rid of black stain?
Thanks
Try Oxalic acid.
Did the shape of the Birch not give you pause?
Can it be apple vinegar?
👍👍👍👍
What's the weight of "one steel wool thingy?" (just approximately)
8 pack on Amazon claims to be .8 oz, math works to .1 oz for an individual. Would've guessed the ones I've used in the past that come with cleaning solution in them are about .5 oz. Amazon math seems to be in the ballpark for ones without solution in them.
👍👍👍
What is the shelf life of the vinegar/iron solution?
I've had several batches in jars for years and it still works, just gets funky if you leave the steel wool in. Still works though
Also, my experience is that the tannin content can vary considerably between heartwood and sapwood. In particular, with white oak, the color change in heartwood is nice, but the sapwood is rather anemic. Probably not an issue on flatwork from milled boards, but could be a concern for turners who harvest their own timber.
DOES ANYBODY KNOW HOW TO STAIN A CEDAR FENCE TO A DARK NAVY COLOR??? COULD A BSO APPLIED AFTER A WATER STAIN WITHOUT LIFTING???
I've had steel wool in vinegar for 2 weeks and it's still the same steel wool and vinegar....
Love ebonizing. But, developed in the 16th century, it is nowhere near being the oldest natural wood stain. Using oils and organic pigments for wood staining can be traced back to ancient civilizations.
Frankly, that grey oak is just plain ugly.