Hopefully this video re1ated to you and if so, show your appreciation by giving me a like to hopkick the algorithm, comment your thoughts/questions down below and subscribe if you haven't already 🙏 youtube.com/@redre1ated?si=02ZDmg5wXedzLE7K%3Fsub_confirmation%3D1 I still feel that Raven is the worst character in Tekken 8 and I give a few isolated examples of situations where his version is lacking when compared to another character. But, I also showcase something that he does have that is good to be fair. This is not a comprehensive video as that would take hrs.
@suttle_t9264 Thank you very much 🫡💪 I actually just got finished with my 2nd Live stream. Went on for about 3 and 1/2 hrs 😆 It's pretty cool. I was figuring out how to share my screen with the chat. I figured it out eventually 😆 Will be streaming that upcoming Xbox Direct tomorrow. But to your point, I am very pleased that you enjoyed the video. I Def put work into that one. I am not so confident that Namco's spring update will address the things needed for Tekken 8 based on what I shared in my Clive update video....where they gave Clive a slap on the wrist regarding one of the most busted moves in the game.
@@Ahope124 Well to be fair, I've never heard of him. It was quite a few ppl commenting and mentioning his name. He seems quite popular. I just knew of Haze, Holeman, Tissueman, Immortal soul and Go attack. I can't know everyone lol But, if so many are bringing his name up, that certainly should be respected
@TocnaelStarcraft Haha, Yea...it is good to do so... but when facing someone where those setups are known and they aren't working...well, good luck. So, I hope Namco fixes this game come spring. Because my interest in VirtuaFighter 6 is growing.
@v-jinzo-v I have to agree 👍 It's one of the reasons I mained Lei for so long. I loved knowing that I won without the need to use a top tier. Still, while fun and stylish; I would like to see Namco fix this game come Spring.
@@redre1ated precisely. Although I get tilted so much playing raven it's a love hate relationship some days but when I'm on point it's great lol 🤣 I can't stand tier lists but the people who pick top tiers just to climb rank then jump to another character when they get nerfed annoy me lol. I got all the characters to red rank before settling with raven now I'm hard stuck tenryu 💀🤣
@v-jinzo-v That sounds good. I'm not jumping back into ranked play until I see what Namco aims to do with that Sprung patch. If I don't see the changes I need to see regarding Raven AND the elite...I'm going to put my time into a different fighting game.. But for my channel; I'll play for content purposes only. So, spring is very important in deciding how I approach this game. Because the majority of the ppl I have fought and lost to, has been carried by their character with a small % actually being solid players. Time will tell. Hope you enjoyed the video atleast.
@redre1ated that's fair enough man. Yea the video was insightful, appreciate that🙏. If I'm still tenryu by the time season 2 comes I might have to take a bit of a break from the game lol
@v-jinzo-v Appreciate it. There are so many stories going on now from Ubisoft and Biowares demise, Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 controversy, and more. So, I try to cover what I can here. This Raven video was a welcome departure. I'll speak on Raven later. As I mentioned in my Tekken Clive update video a few days ago, I don't like the direction Tekken is going based on how the devs addressed that broken move from Clive...so it does not give me hope that the Spring update with do anything meaningful to the top tiers. All I can do like many, is wait and see.
I agree on the uf+4 comparison breakdown, but there are a few elements you did not consider, regardless of the overall consideration(which has its point): Lili's uf+4,3 has a giveaway startup window that can alert the opponent into a SSR which can lead to a full-launch, but is a mind-conditional tool, rather situational, at the same level of Raven's uf+4,4 in a manner of speaking. There's the catch of standing there, waiting for the second kick to come off, when the Lili player didn't commit and just wanted to go into BT, and that's where it becomes mind-game. The difference is that even in normal hit, Lili's (uf+4),3 will KND, whereas Raven's uf+4,4, although able to track both ss, it will just spin you around for 20 damage, with the deadly downside of being a -15 on block! So, yeah, in short: That's BS! Speaking of uf+3: it's a very good tool now, but it took like 4 games to take it this far! It was normal hit launcher in T5 but -15 on block iirc, then later -12, then safe but only ch launching, and now there you have it. About Lili/Raven bt1,4: true, Lili's is a HE, but Raven's 2nd hit is a CH screw launcher! ;) I know, it doesn't make much sense on a larger view, but in the rush of a closeup situation, Raven can use either bt1 or bt2 which are different speed and different properties(bt2,2 is basically a G-Clef counter move, with a stance-transition option before the final hit) and you can only punish the bt1,4 in between the two hits with a prompt quick ws move, otherwise the 4 will ch you. It's complicated and almost sounds like a whim, I know, but it's the diversity between the two moves with the circumstances that the situation can generate based off their moveset options. Same goes with ws2 in comparison with Kazuya's ff3. Raven's ws2 has to be used in a wave-dash pressure, to counter-hit players who want to mash in order to try to stop Raven's FC game(which is by far the best bet on Raven's offensive in this game hands down). So, with ch 4,1 no longer launching, Raven's quick counter-hit potential lies on df+3 and ws2. There are tons of situations still to be analyzed to evaluate Raven's toolset with its equivalents from other characters, but apart from the nonsense of b+2,2,3_1+2 and uf+3+4 poor string risk/reward options, I'd say Raven's tool are not weaker, nor stronger, just different. There is a lot more to talk about him, but his real weakness doesn't lie within his tools, but in the way he's badly configured for this game. Issues that come from previous Tekken games, yet never fixed.
@ThePhantomPhanto There really isn't anything that I can add to this detailed msg here. Other than that, I'm well aware that UF4 with Lili is !25 is a slow startup. The overall point that I was making that you didn't grasp was how she has better tools to get into her BT stance and a followup interupter that is not only safe but give a higher dmg payoff if the op mashes. Just because I don't mention every single thing does not mean that what was not added means I don't know. Perhaps it is simply that for the example I was aiming for, it was not relevant. This is why u also showed off her ability to use B 2,1 into BT, which concept wise the same as Ravens B2,2. But being faster than his, and a safe interupter option. But again, your engagement is appreciated 🫡
@SeanImage Thanks for sharing your thoughts here 🙏 and I agree...If someone has MU knowledge, it makes Raven much more difficult to win with for sure. Based on how the dev team handled Clives' latest update, I'm not at all optimistic for the upcoming major Spring update. I spoke of this in my Clive Update video. While Raven does have a few solid moves, when compared to many of the other characters; they tend to have a better version of the move. I am looking forward to VF6 though.
@redre1ated I'm cautiously optimistic but I completely understand your reservations on the spring update. Raven needs a complete overhaul. I've said for months on discord and other yt channels that Raven has bad frames. I think the design philosophy was supposed to be high risk high reward but the reward honestly is just decent at best. Also his damage output suffers due to unnecessary scaling on attacks like ff2, ff4, qcf3 and uf 3+4,4,2 all leave opponents with a pixel of health which can lead to a missed opportunity to win the round if the both of you are at low health.
@SeanImage I partly agree. He does have some bad frames, but he does have a few great moves as well. But yea, the risk/reward ratio is kinda off 😆 I've mentioned several changes that I'd like to see over the course of a few videos I published. Do I expect such changes? No, but I am open to being wrong, and so... time will tell. But, IF I look through those patch notes and I see no significant buffs to Raven and no significant nerfs to the characters that need to be addressed; I can not see myself playing this game for any purpose other than content creation.
@suttle_t9264 OH hey, I'm sorry for the long delay here, but thank you very much for your kind words. I'm glad that you enjoyed the video. Based on how I see the devs handle Clive in the recent update that happened, I am not very optimistic about the upcoming spring update. While Raven does, in fact, have a few solid moves, many of the cast need to be toned down OR, they need to truly buff Raven and the other low tier characters to where everyone is viable because currently, it is not like that now.
Hopefully this video re1ated to you and if so, show your appreciation by giving me a like to hopkick the algorithm, comment your thoughts/questions down below and subscribe if you haven't already 🙏
youtube.com/@redre1ated?si=02ZDmg5wXedzLE7K%3Fsub_confirmation%3D1
I still feel that Raven is the worst character in Tekken 8 and I give a few isolated examples of situations where his version is lacking when compared to another character. But, I also showcase something that he does have that is good to be fair. This is not a comprehensive video as that would take hrs.
Excellent job bro, seriously and very well laid out. I do hope Namco listen to this two part honest and insightful review on Raven.
@suttle_t9264 Thank you very much 🫡💪
I actually just got finished with my 2nd Live stream. Went on for about 3 and 1/2 hrs 😆
It's pretty cool. I was figuring out how to share my screen with the chat. I figured it out eventually 😆
Will be streaming that upcoming Xbox Direct tomorrow.
But to your point, I am very pleased that you enjoyed the video. I Def put work into that one.
I am not so confident that Namco's spring update will address the things needed for Tekken 8 based on what I shared in my Clive update video....where they gave Clive a slap on the wrist regarding one of the most busted moves in the game.
Finally Zoice gets some recognition! nice video
@@Ahope124 Well to be fair, I've never heard of him. It was quite a few ppl commenting and mentioning his name. He seems quite popular. I just knew of Haze, Holeman, Tissueman, Immortal soul and Go attack. I can't know everyone lol
But, if so many are bringing his name up, that certainly should be respected
nothing more satisfying than hitting his setups though
@TocnaelStarcraft Haha, Yea...it is good to do so... but when facing someone where those setups are known and they aren't working...well, good luck. So, I hope Namco fixes this game come spring. Because my interest in VirtuaFighter 6 is growing.
Might be the worst character but hes the most fun and stylish lol. And when you win with him the other person only has themselves to blame 😂
@v-jinzo-v I have to agree 👍 It's one of the reasons I mained Lei for so long. I loved knowing that I won without the need to use a top tier.
Still, while fun and stylish; I would like to see Namco fix this game come Spring.
@@redre1ated precisely. Although I get tilted so much playing raven it's a love hate relationship some days but when I'm on point it's great lol 🤣 I can't stand tier lists but the people who pick top tiers just to climb rank then jump to another character when they get nerfed annoy me lol. I got all the characters to red rank before settling with raven now I'm hard stuck tenryu 💀🤣
@v-jinzo-v That sounds good. I'm not jumping back into ranked play until I see what Namco aims to do with that Sprung patch. If I don't see the changes I need to see regarding Raven AND the elite...I'm going to put my time into a different fighting game.. But for my channel; I'll play for content purposes only.
So, spring is very important in deciding how I approach this game.
Because the majority of the ppl I have fought and lost to, has been carried by their character with a small % actually being solid players.
Time will tell.
Hope you enjoyed the video atleast.
@redre1ated that's fair enough man. Yea the video was insightful, appreciate that🙏. If I'm still tenryu by the time season 2 comes I might have to take a bit of a break from the game lol
@v-jinzo-v Appreciate it. There are so many stories going on now from Ubisoft and Biowares demise, Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 controversy, and more. So, I try to cover what I can here.
This Raven video was a welcome departure. I'll speak on Raven later.
As I mentioned in my Tekken Clive update video a few days ago, I don't like the direction Tekken is going based on how the devs addressed that broken move from Clive...so it does not give me hope that the Spring update with do anything meaningful to the top tiers. All I can do like many, is wait and see.
I agree on the uf+4 comparison breakdown, but there are a few elements you did not consider, regardless of the overall consideration(which has its point): Lili's uf+4,3 has a giveaway startup window that can alert the opponent into a SSR which can lead to a full-launch, but is a mind-conditional tool, rather situational, at the same level of Raven's uf+4,4 in a manner of speaking. There's the catch of standing there, waiting for the second kick to come off, when the Lili player didn't commit and just wanted to go into BT, and that's where it becomes mind-game.
The difference is that even in normal hit, Lili's (uf+4),3 will KND, whereas Raven's uf+4,4, although able to track both ss, it will just spin you around for 20 damage, with the deadly downside of being a -15 on block! So, yeah, in short: That's BS!
Speaking of uf+3: it's a very good tool now, but it took like 4 games to take it this far! It was normal hit launcher in T5 but -15 on block iirc, then later -12, then safe but only ch launching, and now there you have it.
About Lili/Raven bt1,4: true, Lili's is a HE, but Raven's 2nd hit is a CH screw launcher! ;) I know, it doesn't make much sense on a larger view, but in the rush of a closeup situation, Raven can use either bt1 or bt2 which are different speed and different properties(bt2,2 is basically a G-Clef counter move, with a stance-transition option before the final hit) and you can only punish the bt1,4 in between the two hits with a prompt quick ws move, otherwise the 4 will ch you. It's complicated and almost sounds like a whim, I know, but it's the diversity between the two moves with the circumstances that the situation can generate based off their moveset options.
Same goes with ws2 in comparison with Kazuya's ff3. Raven's ws2 has to be used in a wave-dash pressure, to counter-hit players who want to mash in order to try to stop Raven's FC game(which is by far the best bet on Raven's offensive in this game hands down). So, with ch 4,1 no longer launching, Raven's quick counter-hit potential lies on df+3 and ws2. There are tons of situations still to be analyzed to evaluate Raven's toolset with its equivalents from other characters, but apart from the nonsense of b+2,2,3_1+2 and uf+3+4 poor string risk/reward options, I'd say Raven's tool are not weaker, nor stronger, just different. There is a lot more to talk about him, but his real weakness doesn't lie within his tools, but in the way he's badly configured for this game. Issues that come from previous Tekken games, yet never fixed.
@ThePhantomPhanto There really isn't anything that I can add to this detailed msg here. Other than that, I'm well aware that UF4 with Lili is !25 is a slow startup. The overall point that I was making that you didn't grasp was how she has better tools to get into her BT stance and a followup interupter that is not only safe but give a higher dmg payoff if the op mashes.
Just because I don't mention every single thing does not mean that what was not added means I don't know. Perhaps it is simply that for the example I was aiming for, it was not relevant.
This is why u also showed off her ability to use B 2,1 into BT, which concept wise the same as Ravens B2,2. But being faster than his, and a safe interupter option.
But again, your engagement is appreciated 🫡
There's nothing worse than facing against someone who knows the Raven match-up because you're gonna get launched at almost every blocked exchange.
@SeanImage Thanks for sharing your thoughts here 🙏 and I agree...If someone has MU knowledge, it makes Raven much more difficult to win with for sure.
Based on how the dev team handled Clives' latest update, I'm not at all optimistic for the upcoming major Spring update. I spoke of this in my Clive Update video.
While Raven does have a few solid moves, when compared to many of the other characters; they tend to have a better version of the move.
I am looking forward to VF6 though.
@redre1ated I'm cautiously optimistic but I completely understand your reservations on the spring update. Raven needs a complete overhaul. I've said for months on discord and other yt channels that Raven has bad frames. I think the design philosophy was supposed to be high risk high reward but the reward honestly is just decent at best. Also his damage output suffers due to unnecessary scaling on attacks like ff2, ff4, qcf3 and uf 3+4,4,2 all leave opponents with a pixel of health which can lead to a missed opportunity to win the round if the both of you are at low health.
@SeanImage I partly agree. He does have some bad frames, but he does have a few great moves as well. But yea, the risk/reward ratio is kinda off 😆
I've mentioned several changes that I'd like to see over the course of a few videos I published.
Do I expect such changes? No, but I am open to being wrong, and so... time will tell.
But, IF I look through those patch notes and I see no significant buffs to Raven and no significant nerfs to the characters that need to be addressed; I can not see myself playing this game for any purpose other than content creation.
Excellent job bro, seriously and very well laid out. I do hope Namco listen to this two part honest and insightful review on Raven.
@suttle_t9264 OH hey, I'm sorry for the long delay here, but thank you very much for your kind words. I'm glad that you enjoyed the video.
Based on how I see the devs handle Clive in the recent update that happened, I am not very optimistic about the upcoming spring update.
While Raven does, in fact, have a few solid moves, many of the cast need to be toned down OR, they need to truly buff Raven and the other low tier characters to where everyone is viable because currently, it is not like that now.