"William dies a martyred saint and I, his vampire assassin, become the author of my own species extinction and Moebius profits from it all. I destroyed a tyrant only to create one far worse."
@@strictlyfantasy CONTINUE TO DO LOK CLIPS I WATCH YOU EVERY TIME. FIRST GAME IS BEST STORY IN GAMING HISTORY. I LOVED THIS GAME IN CHILDHOOD SAME NOW. IT IS BEST STORYPLOT EVER CREATED IN INDUSTRY OF VIDEO GAMES.
And Kain. And also, arguably, Raziel... although in his case it would be "Die a villain enough times and you will eventually see yourself become a hero".
I mean, it sounds pretty good, but it really means "You will either change or you will die before you change", which is a very obvious statement. Also, as the video pointed, it was entirely possible Will would be nice to the end, if not for evil schemes.
More like; "Live long enough to become paranoid from being manipulated by one of your advisors." Basically, that's how communist dictators come to power.
Let's take a moment to truly appreciate the wicked game of 4D chess Moebius was playing. He set a new time-line into being, just so he could manipulate Kain into going back and undoing it, thereby birthing a new time-line where Moebius got what he truly wanted.
@@strictlyfantasy Was he a Mastermind, or merely a vital part of a delicate machination that would lead to his own demise. After All, being a Pillar Guardian he had to know the reasons behind their creation.
"I destroyed a tyrant only to create one far worse" I find this statement from Kain interesting, as it seems that he laments his pursuit of being Nostogth's "Solitary Monarch"
Mobius took over the government and launched a genocide. As interesting as it would be if Kain was offering a bit of self-reflection, he was referring to how his own naivete had allowed Mobius to take totalitarian power.
I mean his goal is to undo everything he did and die back in blood omen 1, to "fulfill his destiny". To me it rings that he has a level of self loathing. While showing that he has his own twisted morality/logic, that no matter who he kills it doesn't matter since if he can fulfill his plan, time is undone and they never died to begin with. I find it interesting to think about
@@kylepeters8690 It kinda plays into a concept that goes somewhat unheard but is fundamental to Kain's character: the corruption of the Pillars and the madness of the Circle. Being a Guardian, Kain was affected since his birth by the very same madness that affected the Guardians he hunted and massacred in Blood Omen. That makes him very much a tragic character, because he lived the entirety of his human life and then centuries of vampiric unlife in this state of mental impairment. He is only ever cured of his madness when Raziel sacrifices himself and heals his mind. For the first time in his existence, Kain allows himself to hope...
@@kainslegacy78618 that is something I found odd, they talk about how he was corrupted and mad, but we never really see any truth to this, the most we see is a power hunger, a quick adaption to his new vampiric unlife (like saying a life without blood is a fate worse than death, even while he seeks his cure). The only thing I can think is his form of corruption was lessened by only just being born or perhaps being the balance guardian, instead of driving him mad, leaving him with a disregard for all life and maybe a general melancholic nature when not killing (since he seems to enjoy it while being a bit more mopey outside battle) but even that doesn't line up as he mentions in blood omen that where he lived taught survival of the fittest and had king Otmar ruled where he lived, he would have been long dead and replaced. It's hard to really figure out what Kain's corruption is
After all what is happened, Kain at first was mostly just a man interested in solve his own problems, but the more he tries, the more he saw the consequences his and other people's actions. William is a reflection of Kain, Kain at the begining of his quest isn't nothing more than a pawn in a bigger game, at the end he was the central piece, while William, desíte be a central peice at the begining, ended up as a pawn of Moebius.
"Mobius propelled William and me together, but ensured FIRST, that we were BOTH armed with the Soul Reaver. The Reaver is the key, Raziel. Two incarnations of the blade, meet, in the exact same moment in time and space. A paradox is created; a temporal distortion powerful enough, to derail history."
"But I am dead." Proceeds to chop his head off. "As are you." So badass especially since it is said that people retain consciousness for a few seconds after being decapitated. So Moebius heard Kain say that before he died.
@@strictlyfantasy Works both ways sadly, imagine the scene Moebius, beheading Vorador, seeing Kain, last surviving Vampire in Nosgoth before *dead*. Albeit the mind would be immensely confused at the time of death so I doubt that's somewhat relevant, in a way.
My theory on the first timeline change is that Mobius killed the previous monarch thus making William become king at a young age where he can be manipulated easily. Perhaps if he was supposed to become king aged 30 or 40 he wouldn't have bought what Mobius was saying
Ive allways felt the interesting thing about LOK is its use of two types of time travel. Where all characters operate on the default fixed timeline method. Meaning people who travel back in time cant change the future becuase those events in the past already happened by them. Mobius had allwyas met with William and set him towards the nemasis path. The only exception to this is Raziel or his soul, is the only being who funtions on the Dynamic Timeline method which means he actually can alter history. So due to his presence in the sword, an in my personal headcannon is what ever resonince of conciousness remaining in his long trapped future version of his soul, chose to alter history at that moment. In anycase i dont think there was any timeline where william made it to old age as a kind king.
This makes sense. A boy king being manipulated by his advisor is something that has happened many times in history. This was the case with the last emperor of China.
I’ve got an interesting idea. What if Kain was able to rally the Army of Hope and actually defeated the Nemesis? How would that change things? I personally could see vampires becoming heroes instead of villains in the eyes of the people. Champions of good who triumphed over evil. Which would really mess with Moebius plans lol. But what else would change?
It's really crazy to me how good the voice acting in BO1 considering so many other games had terrible voice acting at the time. Man the time travel logic throughout this whole series is crazy yet it's not that confusing.
@@trollilol3819 I disagree. Kain is constantly providing advice and lessons to Raziel in Soul Reaver 2 and from both games and Defiance we know he was taught of Kain's journey as a fledgling. Kain clearly cares for Raziel hence his shock twice in Defiance when Raziel is being absorbed by the Reaver.
@@cultist1762 I ment in his vampire form he was looked at as a God why would he tell his fledglings of a time he was weak when raziel is recounting kains deification in soul reaver its a look back after he'd gained more Knollege and became kains ally and apparent at least near equal in power I know Kain didnt wanna kill him but raziel was someone Kain had to defend himself from
Hell yeah, more Legacy of Kain content. One of the greatest franchises of all time, certainly the best left unfinished. Thank you for these videos which carry the torch of rememberance.
In a odd way you can say it does have a ending. After all we are left with kain with clear vision as he can see what truly going on. And as long as the current kain does influence anything till the time he left in Soul Reaver. He wins. As the wheel can't do anything to him. And if he is found by kain... kain can hurt or kill him. Kain literal existence is the balance and has accept it.
@@zid9611 the point of all five games was to find a way to restore the pillars of nosgoth. The "coin landing on it's side" was the only way for Nosgoth to win, as both alternatives were rigged so as to destroy the pillars and allow the Hylden to return. Kain living or dying, and the same with the Elder God, is moot, when the moment Kain does finally die, with no proper heirs, vampires, left to become pillar guardians, the last remaining shreds of power contained in the crumbled pillars will allow the Hylden back to violently subjugate what is left of the corrupted Nosgoth. Kain doesn't fight to survive, he fights to restore Nosgoth to an uncorrupted state, and that wasn't wrapped up at all. Please do not disrespect the series by proclaiming it as finished. This is tantamount to claiming that if the Lord of the Rings ended after two movies, it was wrapped up because we could assume in our imaginations that Frodo would never give up. It makes no sense, leaves a bitter memory, and true fans deserve to witness the conclusion of the journey, including yourself.
@@zid9611 the literal "Legacy of Kain" is supposed to be a restored Nosgoth, not just a fancy name for the series. There was supposed to be meaning in the title, and without a conclusion, there is none.
We got the moment that mattered most. The coin flip thing was resolved. The latest paradox was vampire engineered, and Raziel chose to put vampires back in the driver's seat at the close. History now points to them becoming ascendent and Elder being forced into decline. The turning point of history was what we got. Kain is free of the trap. He is clear to spawn new vampires free of the devolving mess that happened in SoulReaver. He can now heal the balance pillar without sacrificing himself & raise new pillars at last. So we didn't get that conclusion in a movie but we got the roadblock removed that was preventing it from happening. The rest is "easy" clean up (just win, baby) as the new timeline of vampire victory unfolds and is fulfilled without need of any more paradox cheating. The legacy of kain all along was the broken world he broke. So they didn't fail to deliver on a promise there. They gave you his legacy in every game. It would be nice to see a conclusion where he offers the world a better destiny, though.
I’d say that given what we know about time in LoK, William was always going to cause a lot of death and Moebius just set the course for why. If he lives and is manipulated by Moebius, then it’s because he’s a conqueror; if he’s killed by Kain, then he inspires people to go after vampires. If neither of those circumstances had happened, then maybe he’s given another reason to start stomping about.
William is the perfect example of what happens when time manipulation is able to run unchecked. Back when the Pillars were first designed, I imagine there were supposed to be checks on each of the Pillar Guardians. Mobius, being largely the architect of the twisted timelines we see in-game, probably had strong incentives to do away with the other Guardians, the individuals intended to check his influence. I think that is why he was so callous when Vorador attacked, and really, they were probably not the first set of Guardians he destroyed either directly or indirectly. The timeline is too precious to put into the hands of a single custodian, and this above everything else is what led to Nosgoth's dark fate. Willian the Just was just one more casualty of causality.
The greatest irony of it all is that, in the end, power-thirsty Mobius was none but a pawn in the Elder God's game. He literally sold out Nosgoth's fate, time and soul for power, a power that never truly belonged to him in the first place. That's a Faustian character if I've ever seen one.
@@Gnamut Well said. Mobius, who is always so smug in his deeply internalized confidence that he is the master of time and fate, only to be made the biggest fool of them all. Who knows how many souls he has funneled down the Elder God's gullet? Probably millions of beings. The infernal crime he has played across who knows how many timelines only ever gets one reckoning, and terrible though it is, part of me thinks it isn't enough.
@@daniell1483 Well, to me Mobius receiving the same fate as the many thousand souls that were assimilated by the Elder God was as much of a karmic punishment as you can expect for a character like him. While we don't know for sure, I usually imagine the souls still being conscious and aware of their existence while they're devoured by the Elder, in a rather unsettling "I Have no Mouth and I Must Scream" kind of scenario. Mobius having the same fate, a man who ultimately seeked to become everlasting, being reduced to nothing but ethereal self-aware dust, is just the perfect punishment for his crimes in my opinion.
@@Gnamut You may be right, but ultimately everything we know about the Wheel which the EG is parasitizing has been fed to us by the Elder God. Perhaps Mobius gets the "I have no mouth and must scream" treatment in the end, but what we know for certain is that the EG grows with every feeding of a soul, and it has described the ordeal as as reincarnation or rebirth. I guess it depends on what degree we trust its word on the matter. I personally imagine souls get broken down and stripped down to only their power to feed the EG. So I see Mobius' soul as being dissolved, essentially.
@@daniell1483 Yeah it breaks it down and refreshes it, but steals some of the energy from the souls while they pass through it (similar to how Raziel works, Raziel gets a tiny bit of the energy of each soul he devours while the rest is sent to the elder god who also takes a cut (same with the Elder God's other cleaners). Likely creating the gradual entropy that is destroying the world as after thousands of years, souls are becoming too weak to sustain life and the cycle is breaking down.
I specifically remember playing through the brief, albeit tense battle between the armies of The Last Hope and The Nemesis. The (by today's standards) dated graphics and limited sound design may have made it seem like a run of the mill fantasy PS1 game at first glance but to be actively be playing through such a ubiquitous moment in the game's story really took me aback in the best way possible. I remember I got cornered by some Nemesis troops when I took a wrong turn, so I took out the Soul Reaver, activated an Energy Bank and desperately started hacking them to pieces. It was such a moment of uneasy triumph.
The series may be over, but the lore is far from exhausted. The William plot was a great way to explore the consequences of time travel, and how actions reverberate through time.
Perhaps being the Time Streamer gives Moebius the ability to see possible timelines. And in his study of them, he likely discovered that carefully-laid crafted traps for Kain would alter history and lead to the vampire genocide. But these plans might not have been conceived if not for Nupraptor's corruption of the Pillar Guardians upon Ariel's murder. This story has so many levels.
FINALLY!!! Whenever someone mentions LoK content, no one ever talks about the Nemesis even though he is a bad ass character. A warlord so powerful that Kane' s only option was to go into the past to stop him. A super underrated character indeed.
14:40 that part always gets me... because of kain characterization, im never really sure if when he says "in my wisdom" hes being sarcastic about his younger self or he's dead serious
There's a kind of parallel between Willam and Kain besides their similar hairstyle and shared possession of the Soul Reaver. Both were manipulated by Moebius in their youths, both went on to conquer Nosgoth as elders, and both were eventually targeted by younger foes also directed by Moebius, and by extension, the Elder God once their purpose was served. Where they diverge however is Kain actively became aware of the great plots of those who'd decide both Nosgoth's fate and his own and resistant them, while William died their pawn. Perhaps Kain took William's example as a cautionary tale to avoid and what might have inspired his search to avert the destiny ordained for him in the first place?
I remember a theory I heard in this very channel about the moment in which the Nemesis timeline was created, and that was again at the moment when both young William and Kain fought each other wielding the Soul Reaver. In another timeline, it was Kain the one who got defeated and slained by William's hand, an event that Mobius profit to push the young king further into his suspicions of treason behind every corner, thus driving him into the path that would turn him into the Nemesis. What it's obvious about that theory is that in both cases, Nemesis and martyr timelines, it was not only the presence of two Soul Reavers in the same time and space what forced the timeline alteration, but Mobius' schemes to ensure that alteration took place exactly as he wished. William's fate wasn't even death or becoming a tyrant, but turning into the fair good-willed monarch Nosgoth needed; but we all know well about Mobius' power and tendency for taking people's real fates away from them and altering them to fulfill his own agenda.
Mobius is unable to directly alter history. To alter history a paradox needs to be triggered to disrupt the time stream. Also Mobius’s death is a fixed point, the only time in SR2 where Mobius is genuinely scared is at the beginning when Raziel comes at him with the conjoined reavers
It's possible that the origin of the Nemesis was him killing an assassin in a soul reaver duel set up by Moebius, in that time line the assassin would have most likely been a human from a neighboring kingdom or someone trying to take William's crown and not a vampire which would explain why William became obsessed with conquest instead of vampire extermination.
Interesstingly, Moebius influence to William explains quite clearly, how he became the nemesis. Not only through weapons, but also through his warning of the assasin. Maybe Meobius send another vampire to kill Wiliam, which the latter defeated and not only boosted his confidence into his rulership, but also that Moebius even gained more of his trust, so he could manipulate him even better. Or the vampire assasin escsped, or never came, but Wiliam growing more and more paranoid, became more and more tyranical, wherever thanks to the time streamers whisperings or not. It's also worth mentioning that the Soul reaver maybe had an indirect corrupting influence on the king. I mean, that weapon was clearly not made for human hands.
The paradox is major moments that shatter the stream, but Mobious slowly manipulating William is just gently guiding the stream. Thus no need for the paradox, he just simply needed to correctly guide the stream to heading he wished.
I always felt like Mobius's connection to the Time Pillar is what gave him the ability to travel through and manipulate time, and it was his manipulations that lead to the paradox of the Reaver which Kain discovered while using the Chrono machine in the distant future in Mobius's lair That is where he realized he could use that paradox to change the flow of time like Mobius innately did due to his gifts from the Pillar.
I wish we could've fight William as the Nemesis. Sure he was older but I'm sure that Moebius would've empower him somehow. Or maybe the Hylden Lord(through Mortanius) would've corrupted him, explaining the demonic appearance of his armor.
I think that, as the Guardian of the Pillar of Time, part of Moebius's responsibilites would include keeping the flow of the time-stream in check. If the Corruption meant every Guardian would do the exact opposite of what their role was meant to be, Moebius could have the power to alter the timeline without the need of a Reaver Paradox so he could manipulate the time-stream for his own goals. So it could be possible that there was a previous timeline, but remember, this series is Kain's story, so everything shown is from his perspective. There are only four timelines because those are the only ones Kain knows of. We think a Reaver Paradox is the only way to change the course of history because that's the one and only means Kain has access to.
No, thank you for these wonderful videos. It’s so cool that someone can delve so deep into a game series with such a rich but complicated lore. And then present it in such a well narrated story. Keep them coming.
As I understand, Moebius part of "Aye, you've seen my plan" is nothing but another of his tricks. Moebius too has a destiny to follow on Nosgoth, who is to say that every machination of his, excluding the ones with Raziel, were too always meant to happen, like, corrupting William?
This was a great analysis and summary of William. He's easily one of the most overlooked characters in the series despite having as much impact as the protagonists.
What's even more interesting is that the way time is described to work. William the Just was likely meant to conquer all of Nosgoth originally and Mobius just change how he went about it, but not that he actually did. So picture that, William the Just, ruler of Nosgoth. A kind king to rule the land of suffering and death. I feel like that would of been the happy ending for the entire affair had it gotten one.
There was a king of England a lot like William. A boy king turned tyrant who was manipulated by people around him, could have been killed during a revolt but was spared because the people saw him as an innocent child being manipulated. Richard the second of England.
This is just a thought, but I thought that the involvement of Moebius’ with King William’s downfall into the Nemesis isn’t necessarily describing an alternate timeline, but the first timeline in itself, with the implication being that, had he not been there to poison his mind, he would’ve had a just and fair kingdom, but it was always meant to be so that Moebius would poison his mind. Tl;dr: Moebius poisoning William’s mind was the first time; should anyone stop him, William would have been just, and THAT would’ve been the alternative timeline.
To set him up as the Nemesis, he likely killed his father younger than in the original timeline. Thus setting up a young boy who was still well educated and with a kind mind set, but with enough time to give him a tyrannical bent. So if William's father hadn't been killed early, he likely would have seen his father and learned how to rule from him, but been old and experienced enough to not easily be manipulated by Moebius. Just a thought
Blood Omen is so rich with lore and character. I have no hesitation saying it along with Soul Reaver 2 (which I consider the true sequel) are my favourites by far.
I never thought there was a previous timeline -- Mobeius was always going to corrupt William. That was his play. At least until Kain came into the picture...
Mobius always turns William into the Nemesis, arming him with the Reaver. The Reaver is always at the Cathedral for Kain to find. A younger Kain only needs to run after the distortion of the blades clashing is felt, leaving the battle for another day. Markings on Kain's armor hinted at his origin, so William begins his conquest to search for the masters of his would-be assassin. Everything plays out as it did. That Kain completes his quest, refusing the sacrifice. With no crusade taking his life, Blood Omen 2 taking place in the prime timeline explains why Vorador is still alive. Keep in mind, Raziel didn't kill Mobius when he had the chance, so it's possible to maintain events even if the conditions for change are met. While Kain wouldn't know what the distortion was the first time the blades clashed, a Mobius watching from the shadows would. All Mobius has to do is one minor change in the visions he gives Kain, to fuel him with enough wrath to override his fear. The next time it happens, Kain swings a second time to sunder William's blade. It would fit Mobius the Schemer so perfectly to make only one subtle change using the same plan, yet having a drastically different effect.
I don't think Mobius altered the past to turn William into the Nemesis, rather he seems to be mocking Kain to enrage him and keep him from thinking too much about what he had just done. Also, based on the events in Defiance, one can even take it as Mobius having zero fear of getting killed by Kain since he knows him his god will revive him to carry out his next task. Mobius is merely spitting in the face of one he views as a simple pawn in a chess game.
About Mobius's death in Defiance... was he really resurrected to die again? I had always assumed that the temporal manipulations of the other games had lead to a timeline where Mobius escaped Kain... only for Kain to coincidentally find and kill him at the vampire citadel instead... which is 1.) hilarious, and 2.) fits well with how Raziel's own death by the Reaver is similarly delayed by time travel but not avoided.
Thank you so much for creating this amazing content, about a little known and almost forgotten franchise, that is without doubt one of the most interesting pieces of fiction ever devised. From a longtime and die-hard fan, thank you so much kind sir.
I will never tire of legacy of kain's lore and history, even in 2022 it's story still tops most recent games, it really does transcends time, fantastic vid will look forward to the next one 👍
Awesome. Loving the references - which just goes to show its well researched. I think the only thing I might've added was the explicit confirmation from the SK faq that William was 'just' "in a previous timeline". Top notch.
I love your LOK videos. For me it's a better story than Lord of the rings or Star Wars but nobody I talk to has ever heard of it sadly. Keep up the great work man.
man, i never thought about the concept of a 1st paradox. i think that it is possible that much the same as the first time guardian saw into the future and came up with the prophecy of the hilden and vampire champions (possibly also looking at the different timelines that other paths might lead to) mobius could have seen the ripples of his actions through time and carefully elaborate a plan using the reaver from 2 points in history when it wasn't being used by anyone and just taking one and placing it next to the other, thus enabling a paradox at will.
I think there is ever a conclusion to LoK it should probably include William and somehow setting his destiny back on track potentially. I got put back into the feels for LoK again and I was wondering where the narrative could even go in the ill fated series conclusion but this video I feel holds at least part of the key
It shows how good a manipulator Moebius is that he convinced Kain to kill William in the past so he wouldn't become The Nemesis in the future knowing that the humans would go after the vampires anyway for Kain's killing of a good man.
This has been the single greatest game I've ever played. There are rumors that it could make a comeback, as happy as that makes me, I prefer things remain as they are. If the original cast and developers are not involved with it, we run the risks of damaging this remarkable piece of work "LIKE THE HALO SERIES" after 343 studios took the helm of the series, the franchise lost its magic. Dennis Dyak and Daniel Cabuco need to be involved with the project as well as the cast, if possible. This is only my humble opinion, thanks for these amazing videos.
Blood omen is the first game I purchased with my own money, I remember being so excited to play it. Many years later I still revisit as it remains a classic. Thank you for this video.
A very intriguing look into the life of William the Bloody, The Nemesis. Have to admit, the one game I haven't tried yet is the original Blood Omen, but it really cool to understand more of its characters backstory. Time travel is such a unique concept, and the Legacy of Kain series did extremely well utilizing it. Cannot thank you enough for these videos. Legacy of Kain is still my favorite story-based game. Thank you again.
Love your content. A friend suggested i get Soul reaver and I was hooked straight away. I've played them all except for Blood omen I, although emulating it is definitely on my to do list. It's weird because I was 14 when I played soul reaver and most of the lore went completely over my head. I enjoyed it but I didn't understand it, but it was by discussing it with my friend and replaying and paying proper attention whilst older did I come to realise how great the story is and it's a real shame that the story was left unfinished. I feel it had huge potential, but then again it could have been a flop, who knows. Your video is well researched, your editing is great, the sound mix is very good (for me at the very least) and it's impressive how you add thoughts and inspire discussion on this very old and forgotten franchise. Again, thanks for making these, they're amazing :)
I really like your videos on LOK series. I remember i played Soul Reaver 2 when i was a kid, and because of not understaning english back then, i never understood what's going on in the game. Your videos explain everything with additional context, and that makes me wanna play entire series, and explore those games on my own. Thanks for that!
Watching this video again after having played Blood Omen myself I think I disagree on the theory that Moebius would have changed the timeline in order to transorm William the Just into the Nemesis, given what we know about time travel in the series. What Kain reveals to Raziel about destiny in the Sarafan stronghold implies that Kain was always supposed to go back in time as he lacks free will, though being armed with the Soul Reaver provides the paradox that Moebius needs to change events in his favor. The words of Kain as he's about to kill Moebius sound more apply as the notions of a young vampire who still knows next to nothing about time travel and assumes to have had the upper hand on the time streamer's machinations, while Moebius' words of confirmation to Kain can be read as yet another manipulation to make him belive he's in control while, in reality, he's just a puppet. Kain will come to understand the mechanics of time travel only centuries after that event, changing his perspective on what really happened, as he admits to Raziel in William's chapel. We may not know what was originally supposed to happen, but it's safe to assume that William would always turn into the Nemesis, whether due to Kain's failed assassination or to the madness spreading throughout Nosgoth as a result of the corruption of the Pillars
So good. All the coverage of the game and details really revitalizes the memory of it all as a young teen getting sucked into soul reaver series long after playing Blood Omen. Thank you so much.
In a Legacy full of twists and turns, this was the one that when as a kid playing for the first time, left my mouth completely agape. I couldn't believe I'd been manipulated like that by Moebius, and could not believe that video games were able to tell a story like this. The series went on to grander things in the SR series, but as you say, the ripples of this moment are felt throughout the rest of the millenia that the series covers. Amy's later weaving this into the SR games and Defiance was absolutely masterful. We'll never see the like of this in gaming again.
I want a remake of this series so badly :( thank you so SO much for continuing to show love to this world and these characters. This series was so formative in my younger years and I would absolutely love to be able to play it again and experience it in its true glory as an adult. We appreciate you!
Man I love these videos, so much nostalgia. I remembered playing Nosgoth (the PVP Steam game ) with a friend of mine that unfortunately passed away while on service. Thanks
Do a video about Lady Azimuth. My theory? She and Mortanius colluded to prevent Kain's soul from feeding the Wheel of Fate after he was assassinated. They diverted his soul to a "Hell" that would correspond to his religious beliefs. After the Heart of Darkness ritual, Azimuth "let Kain out". In Defiance, Raziel and Kain meet in Avernus Cathedral (which Azimuth ruled at the time). After he's killed Kain is in the Demon realm instead of feeding the Wheel. Azimuth and Mortanius were in Avernus at the time and had the motivation and werwithal to let Kain escape. In the Blood Omen 2 opening Kain is vanquished by the Sarafan Lord. Instead of returning to the Wheel he's shown to be falling into heretofore unseen inferno, only to resurrected centuries later by the Cabal. My theory is that Azimuth cast some sort of Dimensional sorcery on Kain after his murder, a failsafe of sorts. Kain was telling the truth when he said Raziel bore the only weapon that could truly kill him, thus returning him back to the Wheel. Otherwise, he simply goes to Hell for a time. When he's ready to come back he either reinhabits his corpse (as in the beginning of BO 1 and 2 and similar to Raziel in Defiance) or by other means. RELATED THOUGHTS In BO1 Azimuth summons seemingly not native to the dimension of Nosgoth. The black demons from SR2 and LOKD bear a striking resemblance to final boss in BO1. The presence of demons in act 2 and 3 of SR2 Indicates Azimuth or anyone else doesn't have a monopoly on Dimension magic.
6:07 This is one of my absolutely favourite scenes in the game; the unmistakable voice of Tony Jay and his delivery of the lines of William. That hesitant yet haughty, confident and powerful tone. And later when you face him in battle, that "Ahhh yes, the Vampire. Moebius told me you would come . . "
Wait, if I understand how time works in the universe of LoK then this wasn't "altered" per se. Every time Kain does something in the past, the time stream adjusts itself to accommodate the change; William turned into a tyrant and went on a genocidal crusade. Kain goes to the past and kills William to prevent his rise to power. Time stream adjusts, genocide still happens, only now it is much more focused on the vampires, so technically, things didn't entirely change, the time stream simply accommodated the change and created a fanatical horde of genocidal maniacs to take William's place.
I LOVE the voice clips from the original blood omen game! I believe there is a website to download multiple voice files, however I noticed that some files were missing or were just not uploaded yet...
I think I have it, perhaps he didn't change history but merely changed how it happened. Perhaps William would eventually conquer all of nosgoth but at the just but moebius twisted his mind so that instead of doing it with justice he did it with malice. The history still plays out the same but the route is different, would that need a new timeline?
I think Moebius turned William into a cruel tyrant by simply giving him the Soulreaver. Before the jump back in time we encounter a huge statue depicting William wielding a serpentine greatsword, i think that was the SR given to him by Norbius even in the iriginal timeline. Besides, the SR contains Raziel's soul, made insane by centuries of imprisonment, i think it's enough to drive to madness anyone who owns the sword for extended periods of time.
From what we've seen of how fixed history is in the LoK universe, what if Moebius didn't change anything about William becoming the Nemesis? Maybe it was supposed to happen (in the first timeline, at least) all along, regardless of Moebius giving William the Soul Reaver and counseling or not, and when he saw into the future and realized that the Nemesis's conquest would probably drive the humans to extinction before the vampires, he came up with a plan to erase both the Nemesis and the vampires from history. This would've been consistent with Moebius's motivations. He wants the vampires gone, but not at the cost of his own race, and even if the Nemesis drove the vampires to extinction first, then what? All that would've been left is a wasteland littered with corpses, which, while the Elder God would certainly appreciate, was not what Moebius wanted. Speaking of the Elder God, I wonder how he felt about this timeline change... on one hand, he's missing out on a lot of souls to feast on, but on the other, he probably thought it was worth it in exchange for wiping out the vampires and keeping Moebius under his thumb (or tentacle?).
Poor william indeed...is incredible how he is the beloved figure between the human folk and the impulse to get the most violent massacre across Nosgoth...but also the notion he is only the tool of the weaver and the match to provoque the storm againts all vampires...and how humanity is unkown of the truth and the crokked hidden manipulations from beyond...
Simply Amazing. Your continuing coverage of Nosgoth Lore should not go down into the annals of obscure fantasy lore without inspiring the thousands of ears you touch. If this humble, fellow, Nosgothian historian may make a suggestion for future topics? He may die happy. Please, Grand Sire, cover the Corruption Nupraptor infected the circle of nine with. Also known as the Blood Curse which caused Kain’s legion’s of vampires to Devolve…or Evolve as they called it. Thank you…Kindly.
Could you imagine a game where you play a game where youre a young king and provided weapons in a vague and nameless land, you slowly get older and darker and it progresses centuries ahead. Your army defeats a "last stand" army and after you win and see a man in black armor fleeing, you black out. When you wake up youre back at the begining of the game when you get your weapons and suddenly the person in black armor appears and you have an impossible boss fight and die...then it says the title of the game then and only then appears "Legacy of Kain" under the title.
I was super young when I first played blood omen so I really couldn't grasp how to get far before getting frustrated and never playing it again. But coming back to it, it really is an amazing game that was way ahead of its time and tried things that no other game really tried making it utterly unique and underrated
I just found out about your videos just now... THEY ARE ABSOLUTLY GREAT!!!! I am studying philosophy, and I think you offer a nice and easy entrance in the demanding philosophical world of LoK, I am a big fan of the series and the plot and I am happy that someone is taking the time to make videos about that, In the German realm( I am German) there is no content like this, videos in English might be a bit harder to understand yet it is good training for me.
Moebius maybe found this version of the soul reaver from an alternate timeline where kain and the vampires are extinct from the hylden using human champions of their own. 4/8/2023.
I think William was always the tyrant, and Mobius' line is more of a sarcastic eye roll to Kain, like a "oh.. you got me .. yep that was always my plan, now cut my head off and go resurrect the instrument of your own destruction" kind of a thing.
"William dies a martyred saint and I, his vampire assassin, become the author of my own species extinction and Moebius profits from it all. I destroyed a tyrant only to create one far worse."
The dialogue is so rich. I love listening to it and showing it off in these vids as much as I can.
thats such a nice way to finde the right words to describe the situation
@@strictlyfantasy CONTINUE TO DO LOK CLIPS I WATCH YOU EVERY TIME. FIRST GAME IS BEST STORY IN GAMING HISTORY. I LOVED THIS GAME IN CHILDHOOD SAME NOW. IT IS BEST STORYPLOT EVER CREATED IN INDUSTRY OF VIDEO GAMES.
It remind us how chaotic it would be if we meddle with time.
Kain really got played like a fiddle.
"You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." is a perfectly fitting quote for William.
And Kain.
And also, arguably, Raziel... although in his case it would be "Die a villain enough times and you will eventually see yourself become a hero".
I mean, it sounds pretty good, but it really means "You will either change or you will die before you change", which is a very obvious statement.
Also, as the video pointed, it was entirely possible Will would be nice to the end, if not for evil schemes.
More like; "Live long enough to become paranoid from being manipulated by one of your advisors." Basically, that's how communist dictators come to power.
Let's take a moment to truly appreciate the wicked game of 4D chess Moebius was playing. He set a new time-line into being, just so he could manipulate Kain into going back and undoing it, thereby birthing a new time-line where Moebius got what he truly wanted.
Yeah, he's a next level mastermind.
@@strictlyfantasy Was he a Mastermind, or merely a vital part of a delicate machination that would lead to his own demise. After All, being a Pillar Guardian he had to know the reasons behind their creation.
@@TwiceStruck he was both. he was use but he is still a genius manipulator
he was a pawn of a parasite, nothing more. True VIP goes to Mortanius for essentially being Snape
@@ProffessorYellow in what way?
The arc of the Nemesis could have easily been the focus of an entire game.
It really should have. The time traveling paradox storyline between Kain and Razy is just too long and weird
it almost is I mean, blood omen 1 is like 75 percent william the just plot, with some vae victus and vorador
That is Blood Omen 1.
"I destroyed a tyrant only to create one far worse" I find this statement from Kain interesting, as it seems that he laments his pursuit of being Nostogth's "Solitary Monarch"
Mobius took over the government and launched a genocide. As interesting as it would be if Kain was offering a bit of self-reflection, he was referring to how his own naivete had allowed Mobius to take totalitarian power.
I mean his goal is to undo everything he did and die back in blood omen 1, to "fulfill his destiny". To me it rings that he has a level of self loathing. While showing that he has his own twisted morality/logic, that no matter who he kills it doesn't matter since if he can fulfill his plan, time is undone and they never died to begin with. I find it interesting to think about
@@MajorJakas I never thought about that!
@@kylepeters8690 It kinda plays into a concept that goes somewhat unheard but is fundamental to Kain's character: the corruption of the Pillars and the madness of the Circle. Being a Guardian, Kain was affected since his birth by the very same madness that affected the Guardians he hunted and massacred in Blood Omen. That makes him very much a tragic character, because he lived the entirety of his human life and then centuries of vampiric unlife in this state of mental impairment. He is only ever cured of his madness when Raziel sacrifices himself and heals his mind. For the first time in his existence, Kain allows himself to hope...
@@kainslegacy78618 that is something I found odd, they talk about how he was corrupted and mad, but we never really see any truth to this, the most we see is a power hunger, a quick adaption to his new vampiric unlife (like saying a life without blood is a fate worse than death, even while he seeks his cure). The only thing I can think is his form of corruption was lessened by only just being born or perhaps being the balance guardian, instead of driving him mad, leaving him with a disregard for all life and maybe a general melancholic nature when not killing (since he seems to enjoy it while being a bit more mopey outside battle) but even that doesn't line up as he mentions in blood omen that where he lived taught survival of the fittest and had king Otmar ruled where he lived, he would have been long dead and replaced. It's hard to really figure out what Kain's corruption is
After all what is happened, Kain at first was mostly just a man interested in solve his own problems, but the more he tries, the more he saw the consequences his and other people's actions.
William is a reflection of Kain, Kain at the begining of his quest isn't nothing more than a pawn in a bigger game, at the end he was the central piece, while William, desíte be a central peice at the begining, ended up as a pawn of Moebius.
"Mobius propelled William and me together, but ensured FIRST, that we were BOTH armed with the Soul Reaver. The Reaver is the key, Raziel. Two incarnations of the blade, meet, in the exact same moment in time and space. A paradox is created; a temporal distortion powerful enough, to derail history."
I will never forget the scene when Kain beheads Moebius. That was the first ever bad ass video game cut scene I saw at that time.
"But I am dead." Proceeds to chop his head off. "As are you." So badass especially since it is said that people retain consciousness for a few seconds after being decapitated. So Moebius heard Kain say that before he died.
@@strictlyfantasy Works both ways sadly, imagine the scene Moebius, beheading Vorador, seeing Kain, last surviving Vampire in Nosgoth before *dead*. Albeit the mind would be immensely confused at the time of death so I doubt that's somewhat relevant, in a way.
My theory on the first timeline change is that Mobius killed the previous monarch thus making William become king at a young age where he can be manipulated easily. Perhaps if he was supposed to become king aged 30 or 40 he wouldn't have bought what Mobius was saying
I never thought of that, but that fits into Moebius' character perfectly
I like that one!
Great idea.
Ive allways felt the interesting thing about LOK is its use of two types of time travel. Where all characters operate on the default fixed timeline method. Meaning people who travel back in time cant change the future becuase those events in the past already happened by them. Mobius had allwyas met with William and set him towards the nemasis path. The only exception to this is Raziel or his soul, is the only being who funtions on the Dynamic Timeline method which means he actually can alter history. So due to his presence in the sword, an in my personal headcannon is what ever resonince of conciousness remaining in his long trapped future version of his soul, chose to alter history at that moment. In anycase i dont think there was any timeline where william made it to old age as a kind king.
This makes sense. A boy king being manipulated by his advisor is something that has happened many times in history. This was the case with the last emperor of China.
I’ve got an interesting idea. What if Kain was able to rally the Army of Hope and actually defeated the Nemesis? How would that change things? I personally could see vampires becoming heroes instead of villains in the eyes of the people. Champions of good who triumphed over evil. Which would really mess with Moebius plans lol. But what else would change?
It's really crazy to me how good the voice acting in BO1 considering so many other games had terrible voice acting at the time.
Man the time travel logic throughout this whole series is crazy yet it's not that confusing.
Yup, Blood Omen came out in 1996. Voice acting was way ahead of its time.
Wanna know something crazy? Ariel is voiced by Anna Gunn, also known as Skylar White.
@@Xarfax321
Yeah, I am aware of that.
Raziel never learned the lessons of Kain's journey throughout Blood Omen. The rush into everything recklessly makes you easily manipulated.
He was never ment to he was kains manipulatee
@@trollilol3819 I disagree. Kain is constantly providing advice and lessons to Raziel in Soul Reaver 2 and from both games and Defiance we know he was taught of Kain's journey as a fledgling. Kain clearly cares for Raziel hence his shock twice in Defiance when Raziel is being absorbed by the Reaver.
@@cultist1762 I ment in his vampire form he was looked at as a God why would he tell his fledglings of a time he was weak when raziel is recounting kains deification in soul reaver its a look back after he'd gained more Knollege and became kains ally and apparent at least near equal in power I know Kain didnt wanna kill him but raziel was someone Kain had to defend himself from
As a vampire the lieutenants of pains army where just glorified goons at least as far as Kain was concerned remember he's not a very loving creature
I just dont remember raziel recounting kains story but I may be misremembering time for a replay! Lol
I completely forgot Tony Jay voiced the boy king William, that's actually pretty funny. They really got a lot out of old Tony in this series.
Hell yeah, more Legacy of Kain content. One of the greatest franchises of all time, certainly the best left unfinished. Thank you for these videos which carry the torch of rememberance.
In a odd way you can say it does have a ending. After all we are left with kain with clear vision as he can see what truly going on. And as long as the current kain does influence anything till the time he left in Soul Reaver. He wins. As the wheel can't do anything to him. And if he is found by kain... kain can hurt or kill him. Kain literal existence is the balance and has accept it.
@@zid9611 I Regret never ever Both Soul Reavers before my PSX blow
@@zid9611 the point of all five games was to find a way to restore the pillars of nosgoth. The "coin landing on it's side" was the only way for Nosgoth to win, as both alternatives were rigged so as to destroy the pillars and allow the Hylden to return. Kain living or dying, and the same with the Elder God, is moot, when the moment Kain does finally die, with no proper heirs, vampires, left to become pillar guardians, the last remaining shreds of power contained in the crumbled pillars will allow the Hylden back to violently subjugate what is left of the corrupted Nosgoth. Kain doesn't fight to survive, he fights to restore Nosgoth to an uncorrupted state, and that wasn't wrapped up at all. Please do not disrespect the series by proclaiming it as finished. This is tantamount to claiming that if the Lord of the Rings ended after two movies, it was wrapped up because we could assume in our imaginations that Frodo would never give up. It makes no sense, leaves a bitter memory, and true fans deserve to witness the conclusion of the journey, including yourself.
@@zid9611 the literal "Legacy of Kain" is supposed to be a restored Nosgoth, not just a fancy name for the series. There was supposed to be meaning in the title, and without a conclusion, there is none.
We got the moment that mattered most. The coin flip thing was resolved. The latest paradox was vampire engineered, and Raziel chose to put vampires back in the driver's seat at the close. History now points to them becoming ascendent and Elder being forced into decline. The turning point of history was what we got. Kain is free of the trap. He is clear to spawn new vampires free of the devolving mess that happened in SoulReaver. He can now heal the balance pillar without sacrificing himself & raise new pillars at last. So we didn't get that conclusion in a movie but we got the roadblock removed that was preventing it from happening. The rest is "easy" clean up (just win, baby) as the new timeline of vampire victory unfolds and is fulfilled without need of any more paradox cheating.
The legacy of kain all along was the broken world he broke. So they didn't fail to deliver on a promise there. They gave you his legacy in every game. It would be nice to see a conclusion where he offers the world a better destiny, though.
I’d say that given what we know about time in LoK, William was always going to cause a lot of death and Moebius just set the course for why. If he lives and is manipulated by Moebius, then it’s because he’s a conqueror; if he’s killed by Kain, then he inspires people to go after vampires. If neither of those circumstances had happened, then maybe he’s given another reason to start stomping about.
William is the perfect example of what happens when time manipulation is able to run unchecked. Back when the Pillars were first designed, I imagine there were supposed to be checks on each of the Pillar Guardians. Mobius, being largely the architect of the twisted timelines we see in-game, probably had strong incentives to do away with the other Guardians, the individuals intended to check his influence. I think that is why he was so callous when Vorador attacked, and really, they were probably not the first set of Guardians he destroyed either directly or indirectly. The timeline is too precious to put into the hands of a single custodian, and this above everything else is what led to Nosgoth's dark fate. Willian the Just was just one more casualty of causality.
The greatest irony of it all is that, in the end, power-thirsty Mobius was none but a pawn in the Elder God's game. He literally sold out Nosgoth's fate, time and soul for power, a power that never truly belonged to him in the first place. That's a Faustian character if I've ever seen one.
@@Gnamut Well said. Mobius, who is always so smug in his deeply internalized confidence that he is the master of time and fate, only to be made the biggest fool of them all. Who knows how many souls he has funneled down the Elder God's gullet? Probably millions of beings. The infernal crime he has played across who knows how many timelines only ever gets one reckoning, and terrible though it is, part of me thinks it isn't enough.
@@daniell1483 Well, to me Mobius receiving the same fate as the many thousand souls that were assimilated by the Elder God was as much of a karmic punishment as you can expect for a character like him. While we don't know for sure, I usually imagine the souls still being conscious and aware of their existence while they're devoured by the Elder, in a rather unsettling "I Have no Mouth and I Must Scream" kind of scenario. Mobius having the same fate, a man who ultimately seeked to become everlasting, being reduced to nothing but ethereal self-aware dust, is just the perfect punishment for his crimes in my opinion.
@@Gnamut You may be right, but ultimately everything we know about the Wheel which the EG is parasitizing has been fed to us by the Elder God. Perhaps Mobius gets the "I have no mouth and must scream" treatment in the end, but what we know for certain is that the EG grows with every feeding of a soul, and it has described the ordeal as as reincarnation or rebirth. I guess it depends on what degree we trust its word on the matter. I personally imagine souls get broken down and stripped down to only their power to feed the EG. So I see Mobius' soul as being dissolved, essentially.
@@daniell1483 Yeah it breaks it down and refreshes it, but steals some of the energy from the souls while they pass through it (similar to how Raziel works, Raziel gets a tiny bit of the energy of each soul he devours while the rest is sent to the elder god who also takes a cut (same with the Elder God's other cleaners). Likely creating the gradual entropy that is destroying the world as after thousands of years, souls are becoming too weak to sustain life and the cycle is breaking down.
I specifically remember playing through the brief, albeit tense battle between the armies of The Last Hope and The Nemesis. The (by today's standards) dated graphics and limited sound design may have made it seem like a run of the mill fantasy PS1 game at first glance but to be actively be playing through such a ubiquitous moment in the game's story really took me aback in the best way possible. I remember I got cornered by some Nemesis troops when I took a wrong turn, so I took out the Soul Reaver, activated an Energy Bank and desperately started hacking them to pieces. It was such a moment of uneasy triumph.
I love memorable moments like that in gaming. Seems to happen less oftern now with games these days...
The series may be over, but the lore is far from exhausted.
The William plot was a great way to explore the consequences of time travel, and how actions reverberate through time.
6:07 - It's so strange, in hindsight, hearing Richard Doyle's character using Tony Jay's as a pawn...
Really Simons voice is amazing… the way he speaks is just… speachless.. I cannot imagine someone else doing kains voice
Yeah, Simon Templeman is one of the greatest voice actors to ever live.
Bill Nighy comes close
Protect this franchise and keep it alive.
Perhaps being the Time Streamer gives Moebius the ability to see possible timelines. And in his study of them, he likely discovered that carefully-laid crafted traps for Kain would alter history and lead to the vampire genocide. But these plans might not have been conceived if not for Nupraptor's corruption of the Pillar Guardians upon Ariel's murder. This story has so many levels.
FINALLY!!! Whenever someone mentions LoK content, no one ever talks about the Nemesis even though he is a bad ass character. A warlord so powerful that Kane' s only option was to go into the past to stop him. A super underrated character indeed.
14:40 that part always gets me... because of kain characterization, im never really sure if when he says "in my wisdom" hes being sarcastic about his younger self or he's dead serious
There's a kind of parallel between Willam and Kain besides their similar hairstyle and shared possession of the Soul Reaver.
Both were manipulated by Moebius in their youths, both went on to conquer Nosgoth as elders, and both were eventually targeted by younger foes also directed by Moebius, and by extension, the Elder God once their purpose was served.
Where they diverge however is Kain actively became aware of the great plots of those who'd decide both Nosgoth's fate and his own and resistant them, while William died their pawn. Perhaps Kain took William's example as a cautionary tale to avoid and what might have inspired his search to avert the destiny ordained for him in the first place?
I remember a theory I heard in this very channel about the moment in which the Nemesis timeline was created, and that was again at the moment when both young William and Kain fought each other wielding the Soul Reaver. In another timeline, it was Kain the one who got defeated and slained by William's hand, an event that Mobius profit to push the young king further into his suspicions of treason behind every corner, thus driving him into the path that would turn him into the Nemesis.
What it's obvious about that theory is that in both cases, Nemesis and martyr timelines, it was not only the presence of two Soul Reavers in the same time and space what forced the timeline alteration, but Mobius' schemes to ensure that alteration took place exactly as he wished. William's fate wasn't even death or becoming a tyrant, but turning into the fair good-willed monarch Nosgoth needed; but we all know well about Mobius' power and tendency for taking people's real fates away from them and altering them to fulfill his own agenda.
Mobius is unable to directly alter history. To alter history a paradox needs to be triggered to disrupt the time stream. Also Mobius’s death is a fixed point, the only time in SR2 where Mobius is genuinely scared is at the beginning when Raziel comes at him with the conjoined reavers
It's possible that the origin of the Nemesis was him killing an assassin in a soul reaver duel set up by Moebius, in that time line the assassin would have most likely been a human from a neighboring kingdom or someone trying to take William's crown and not a vampire which would explain why William became obsessed with conquest instead of vampire extermination.
Interesstingly, Moebius influence to William explains quite clearly, how he became the nemesis. Not only through weapons, but also through his warning of the assasin. Maybe Meobius send another vampire to kill Wiliam, which the latter defeated and not only boosted his confidence into his rulership, but also that Moebius even gained more of his trust, so he could manipulate him even better. Or the vampire assasin escsped, or never came, but Wiliam growing more and more paranoid, became more and more tyranical, wherever thanks to the time streamers whisperings or not. It's also worth mentioning that the Soul reaver maybe had an indirect corrupting influence on the king. I mean, that weapon was clearly not made for human hands.
The paradox is major moments that shatter the stream, but Mobious slowly manipulating William is just gently guiding the stream. Thus no need for the paradox, he just simply needed to correctly guide the stream to heading he wished.
I always felt like Mobius's connection to the Time Pillar is what gave him the ability to travel through and manipulate time, and it was his manipulations that lead to the paradox of the Reaver which Kain discovered while using the Chrono machine in the distant future in Mobius's lair That is where he realized he could use that paradox to change the flow of time like Mobius innately did due to his gifts from the Pillar.
I wish we could've fight William as the Nemesis. Sure he was older but I'm sure that Moebius would've empower him somehow. Or maybe the Hylden Lord(through Mortanius) would've corrupted him, explaining the demonic appearance of his armor.
I think that, as the Guardian of the Pillar of Time, part of Moebius's responsibilites would include keeping the flow of the time-stream in check. If the Corruption meant every Guardian would do the exact opposite of what their role was meant to be, Moebius could have the power to alter the timeline without the need of a Reaver Paradox so he could manipulate the time-stream for his own goals. So it could be possible that there was a previous timeline, but remember, this series is Kain's story, so everything shown is from his perspective. There are only four timelines because those are the only ones Kain knows of. We think a Reaver Paradox is the only way to change the course of history because that's the one and only means Kain has access to.
These events would also fashion Kain’s worldview and his desire to find an alternate path to fate itself. The coin landing on its side…
No, thank you for these wonderful videos. It’s so cool that someone can delve so deep into a game series with such a rich but complicated lore. And then present it in such a well narrated story. Keep them coming.
As I understand, Moebius part of "Aye, you've seen my plan" is nothing but another of his tricks.
Moebius too has a destiny to follow on Nosgoth, who is to say that every machination of his, excluding the ones with Raziel, were too always meant to happen, like, corrupting William?
thats a bingo!
This was a great analysis and summary of William. He's easily one of the most overlooked characters in the series despite having as much impact as the protagonists.
What's even more interesting is that the way time is described to work. William the Just was likely meant to conquer all of Nosgoth originally and Mobius just change how he went about it, but not that he actually did. So picture that, William the Just, ruler of Nosgoth. A kind king to rule the land of suffering and death. I feel like that would of been the happy ending for the entire affair had it gotten one.
There was a king of England a lot like William. A boy king turned tyrant who was manipulated by people around him, could have been killed during a revolt but was spared because the people saw him as an innocent child being manipulated. Richard the second of England.
I never knew the lore and story of the LoK saga was so fascinating. Boy, did I miss out.
This is just a thought, but I thought that the involvement of Moebius’ with King William’s downfall into the Nemesis isn’t necessarily describing an alternate timeline, but the first timeline in itself, with the implication being that, had he not been there to poison his mind, he would’ve had a just and fair kingdom, but it was always meant to be so that Moebius would poison his mind.
Tl;dr: Moebius poisoning William’s mind was the first time; should anyone stop him, William would have been just, and THAT would’ve been the alternative timeline.
I think that Mobius used the paradox of the reaver to change time; by having Kains' Soulreaver break Williams' one.
To set him up as the Nemesis, he likely killed his father younger than in the original timeline. Thus setting up a young boy who was still well educated and with a kind mind set, but with enough time to give him a tyrannical bent.
So if William's father hadn't been killed early, he likely would have seen his father and learned how to rule from him, but been old and experienced enough to not easily be manipulated by Moebius.
Just a thought
I love these videos. Theres so much lore in the lok universe, so many characters to explore.
Blood Omen is so rich with lore and character. I have no hesitation saying it along with Soul Reaver 2 (which I consider the true sequel) are my favourites by far.
Youre legacy of Kain content is top tier. Love them all
Keep up the LoK content I'll always watch this series.
"But I am dead ,as are you" savage kain
I never thought there was a previous timeline -- Mobeius was always going to corrupt William. That was his play. At least until Kain came into the picture...
Mobius always turns William into the Nemesis, arming him with the Reaver. The Reaver is always at the Cathedral for Kain to find. A younger Kain only needs to run after the distortion of the blades clashing is felt, leaving the battle for another day. Markings on Kain's armor hinted at his origin, so William begins his conquest to search for the masters of his would-be assassin. Everything plays out as it did. That Kain completes his quest, refusing the sacrifice. With no crusade taking his life, Blood Omen 2 taking place in the prime timeline explains why Vorador is still alive. Keep in mind, Raziel didn't kill Mobius when he had the chance, so it's possible to maintain events even if the conditions for change are met. While Kain wouldn't know what the distortion was the first time the blades clashed, a Mobius watching from the shadows would. All Mobius has to do is one minor change in the visions he gives Kain, to fuel him with enough wrath to override his fear. The next time it happens, Kain swings a second time to sunder William's blade. It would fit Mobius the Schemer so perfectly to make only one subtle change using the same plan, yet having a drastically different effect.
I don't think Mobius altered the past to turn William into the Nemesis, rather he seems to be mocking Kain to enrage him and keep him from thinking too much about what he had just done.
Also, based on the events in Defiance, one can even take it as Mobius having zero fear of getting killed by Kain since he knows him his god will revive him to carry out his next task. Mobius is merely spitting in the face of one he views as a simple pawn in a chess game.
About Mobius's death in Defiance... was he really resurrected to die again? I had always assumed that the temporal manipulations of the other games had lead to a timeline where Mobius escaped Kain... only for Kain to coincidentally find and kill him at the vampire citadel instead... which is 1.) hilarious, and 2.) fits well with how Raziel's own death by the Reaver is similarly delayed by time travel but not avoided.
Thank you so much for creating this amazing content, about a little known and almost forgotten franchise, that is without doubt one of the most interesting pieces of fiction ever devised. From a longtime and die-hard fan, thank you so much kind sir.
I will never tire of legacy of kain's lore and history, even in 2022 it's story still tops most recent games, it really does transcends time, fantastic vid will look forward to the next one 👍
Love these in depth lore videos on the Legacy of Kain series 👌
Awesome. Loving the references - which just goes to show its well researched. I think the only thing I might've added was the explicit confirmation from the SK faq that William was 'just' "in a previous timeline". Top notch.
I love your LOK videos. For me it's a better story than Lord of the rings or Star Wars but nobody I talk to has ever heard of it sadly. Keep up the great work man.
man, i never thought about the concept of a 1st paradox. i think that it is possible that much the same as the first time guardian saw into the future and came up with the prophecy of the hilden and vampire champions (possibly also looking at the different timelines that other paths might lead to) mobius could have seen the ripples of his actions through time and carefully elaborate a plan using the reaver from 2 points in history when it wasn't being used by anyone and just taking one and placing it next to the other, thus enabling a paradox at will.
I think there is ever a conclusion to LoK it should probably include William and somehow setting his destiny back on track potentially.
I got put back into the feels for LoK again and I was wondering where the narrative could even go in the ill fated series conclusion but this video I feel holds at least part of the key
I am so happy you're doing the legend of Kain videos I can't get enough of them thank you bro
It shows how good a manipulator Moebius is that he convinced Kain to kill William in the past so he wouldn't become The Nemesis in the future knowing that the humans would go after the vampires anyway for Kain's killing of a good man.
This has been the single greatest game I've ever played. There are rumors that it could make a comeback, as happy as that makes me, I prefer things remain as they are. If the original cast and developers are not involved with it, we run the risks of damaging this remarkable piece of work "LIKE THE HALO SERIES" after 343 studios took the helm of the series, the franchise lost its magic. Dennis Dyak and Daniel Cabuco need to be involved with the project as well as the cast, if possible. This is only my humble opinion, thanks for these amazing videos.
Legacy of Kain is by far one of the best stories told through video games; love your videos man.
Blood omen is the first game I purchased with my own money, I remember being so excited to play it. Many years later I still revisit as it remains a classic. Thank you for this video.
A very intriguing look into the life of William the Bloody, The Nemesis. Have to admit, the one game I haven't tried yet is the original Blood Omen, but it really cool to understand more of its characters backstory. Time travel is such a unique concept, and the Legacy of Kain series did extremely well utilizing it. Cannot thank you enough for these videos. Legacy of Kain is still my favorite story-based game. Thank you again.
Love your content. A friend suggested i get Soul reaver and I was hooked straight away. I've played them all except for Blood omen I, although emulating it is definitely on my to do list.
It's weird because I was 14 when I played soul reaver and most of the lore went completely over my head. I enjoyed it but I didn't understand it, but it was by discussing it with my friend and replaying and paying proper attention whilst older did I come to realise how great the story is and it's a real shame that the story was left unfinished. I feel it had huge potential, but then again it could have been a flop, who knows.
Your video is well researched, your editing is great, the sound mix is very good (for me at the very least) and it's impressive how you add thoughts and inspire discussion on this very old and forgotten franchise.
Again, thanks for making these, they're amazing :)
Thank you. As for Blood Omen. You should consider getting it on GoG. It's cheap and you'll have a better time, then emulating it.
I really like your videos on LOK series. I remember i played Soul Reaver 2 when i was a kid, and because of not understaning english back then, i never understood what's going on in the game. Your videos explain everything with additional context, and that makes me wanna play entire series, and explore those games on my own. Thanks for that!
These games have possibly the best use of the English language I've seen in the video game medium.
Watching this video again after having played Blood Omen myself I think I disagree on the theory that Moebius would have changed the timeline in order to transorm William the Just into the Nemesis, given what we know about time travel in the series. What Kain reveals to Raziel about destiny in the Sarafan stronghold implies that Kain was always supposed to go back in time as he lacks free will, though being armed with the Soul Reaver provides the paradox that Moebius needs to change events in his favor. The words of Kain as he's about to kill Moebius sound more apply as the notions of a young vampire who still knows next to nothing about time travel and assumes to have had the upper hand on the time streamer's machinations, while Moebius' words of confirmation to Kain can be read as yet another manipulation to make him belive he's in control while, in reality, he's just a puppet. Kain will come to understand the mechanics of time travel only centuries after that event, changing his perspective on what really happened, as he admits to Raziel in William's chapel. We may not know what was originally supposed to happen, but it's safe to assume that William would always turn into the Nemesis, whether due to Kain's failed assassination or to the madness spreading throughout Nosgoth as a result of the corruption of the Pillars
So good. All the coverage of the game and details really revitalizes the memory of it all as a young teen getting sucked into soul reaver series long after playing Blood Omen. Thank you so much.
In a Legacy full of twists and turns, this was the one that when as a kid playing for the first time, left my mouth completely agape. I couldn't believe I'd been manipulated like that by Moebius, and could not believe that video games were able to tell a story like this. The series went on to grander things in the SR series, but as you say, the ripples of this moment are felt throughout the rest of the millenia that the series covers. Amy's later weaving this into the SR games and Defiance was absolutely masterful. We'll never see the like of this in gaming again.
I want a remake of this series so badly :( thank you so SO much for continuing to show love to this world and these characters. This series was so formative in my younger years and I would absolutely love to be able to play it again and experience it in its true glory as an adult. We appreciate you!
I wish this franchise will get continuation or a reboot. People are missing such a gem of a franchise.
Sure
It's rumored that Soul Reaver is getting a remaster for ps5 that is already being worked on.
Man I love these videos, so much nostalgia. I remembered playing Nosgoth (the PVP Steam game ) with a friend of mine that unfortunately passed away while on service. Thanks
just love how efficient and brutal kain is that scene where he beheads mobius is jsut amazing
As always, a really well put video! Especially appreciate the effort to produce an essay about a character that's often overlooked in LoK content.
Do a video about Lady Azimuth. My theory? She and Mortanius colluded to prevent Kain's soul from feeding the Wheel of Fate after he was assassinated. They diverted his soul to a "Hell" that would correspond to his religious beliefs. After the Heart of Darkness ritual, Azimuth "let Kain out". In Defiance, Raziel and Kain meet in Avernus Cathedral (which Azimuth ruled at the time). After he's killed Kain is in the Demon realm instead of feeding the Wheel. Azimuth and Mortanius were in Avernus at the time and had the motivation and werwithal to let Kain escape. In the Blood Omen 2 opening Kain is vanquished by the Sarafan Lord. Instead of returning to the Wheel he's shown to be falling into heretofore unseen inferno, only to resurrected centuries later by the Cabal. My theory is that Azimuth cast some sort of Dimensional sorcery on Kain after his murder, a failsafe of sorts. Kain was telling the truth when he said Raziel bore the only weapon that could truly kill him, thus returning him back to the Wheel. Otherwise, he simply goes to Hell for a time. When he's ready to come back he either reinhabits his corpse (as in the beginning of BO 1 and 2 and similar to Raziel in Defiance) or by other means.
RELATED THOUGHTS
In BO1 Azimuth summons seemingly not native to the dimension of Nosgoth.
The black demons from SR2 and LOKD bear a striking resemblance to final boss in BO1.
The presence of demons in act 2 and 3 of SR2 Indicates Azimuth or anyone else doesn't have a monopoly on Dimension magic.
6:07 This is one of my absolutely favourite scenes in the game; the unmistakable voice of Tony Jay and his delivery of the lines of William. That hesitant yet haughty, confident and powerful tone. And later when you face him in battle, that "Ahhh yes, the Vampire. Moebius told me you would come . . "
Wait, if I understand how time works in the universe of LoK then this wasn't "altered" per se. Every time Kain does something in the past, the time stream adjusts itself to accommodate the change; William turned into a tyrant and went on a genocidal crusade. Kain goes to the past and kills William to prevent his rise to power. Time stream adjusts, genocide still happens, only now it is much more focused on the vampires, so technically, things didn't entirely change, the time stream simply accommodated the change and created a fanatical horde of genocidal maniacs to take William's place.
Another one smashed out the park, my friend. Keep it up, these are incredible.
Thank you 😀
I LOVE the voice clips from the original blood omen game! I believe there is a website to download multiple voice files, however I noticed that some files were missing or were just not uploaded yet...
Freaking woot! Loving the lok vids, good sir. Keep up the amazing work.
I'm totally adding this to my playlist.
You’re videos are amazing, I played these games as a teenager and they mean the world to me.
I think I have it, perhaps he didn't change history but merely changed how it happened. Perhaps William would eventually conquer all of nosgoth but at the just but moebius twisted his mind so that instead of doing it with justice he did it with malice. The history still plays out the same but the route is different, would that need a new timeline?
I think Moebius turned William into a cruel tyrant by simply giving him the Soulreaver. Before the jump back in time we encounter a huge statue depicting William wielding a serpentine greatsword, i think that was the SR given to him by Norbius even in the iriginal timeline. Besides, the SR contains Raziel's soul, made insane by centuries of imprisonment, i think it's enough to drive to madness anyone who owns the sword for extended periods of time.
From what we've seen of how fixed history is in the LoK universe, what if Moebius didn't change anything about William becoming the Nemesis? Maybe it was supposed to happen (in the first timeline, at least) all along, regardless of Moebius giving William the Soul Reaver and counseling or not, and when he saw into the future and realized that the Nemesis's conquest would probably drive the humans to extinction before the vampires, he came up with a plan to erase both the Nemesis and the vampires from history.
This would've been consistent with Moebius's motivations. He wants the vampires gone, but not at the cost of his own race, and even if the Nemesis drove the vampires to extinction first, then what? All that would've been left is a wasteland littered with corpses, which, while the Elder God would certainly appreciate, was not what Moebius wanted.
Speaking of the Elder God, I wonder how he felt about this timeline change... on one hand, he's missing out on a lot of souls to feast on, but on the other, he probably thought it was worth it in exchange for wiping out the vampires and keeping Moebius under his thumb (or tentacle?).
Amazing video, trully a series that deserves a remaster
Awesome i love these legacy of kain video's! Thanks for yet another outstanding video!🙂👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Poor william indeed...is incredible how he is the beloved figure between the human folk and the impulse to get the most violent massacre across Nosgoth...but also the notion he is only the tool of the weaver and the match to provoque the storm againts all vampires...and how humanity is unkown of the truth and the crokked hidden manipulations from beyond...
Simply Amazing. Your continuing coverage of Nosgoth Lore should not go down into the annals of obscure fantasy lore without inspiring the thousands of ears you touch.
If this humble, fellow, Nosgothian historian may make a suggestion for future topics? He may die happy.
Please, Grand Sire, cover the Corruption Nupraptor infected the circle of nine with. Also known as the Blood Curse which caused Kain’s legion’s of vampires to Devolve…or Evolve as they called it. Thank you…Kindly.
Thanks. I'm sure I'll cover that topic at some point 😀.
Could you imagine a game where you play a game where youre a young king and provided weapons in a vague and nameless land, you slowly get older and darker and it progresses centuries ahead. Your army defeats a "last stand" army and after you win and see a man in black armor fleeing, you black out. When you wake up youre back at the begining of the game when you get your weapons and suddenly the person in black armor appears and you have an impossible boss fight and die...then it says the title of the game then and only then appears "Legacy of Kain" under the title.
Existential crisis, here we come. Just like I like them.
I was super young when I first played blood omen so I really couldn't grasp how to get far before getting frustrated and never playing it again. But coming back to it, it really is an amazing game that was way ahead of its time and tried things that no other game really tried making it utterly unique and underrated
Thanks for making this, LOK is the best video game series of all time, and underrated. Raziel is also a walking paradox because he is an INFJ.
Great stuff! What about a video about the humans of Nosgoth in general?
I just found out about your videos just now... THEY ARE ABSOLUTLY GREAT!!!! I am studying philosophy, and I think you offer a nice and easy entrance in the demanding philosophical world of LoK,
I am a big fan of the series and the plot and I am happy that someone is taking the time to make videos about that, In the German realm( I am German) there is no content like this, videos in English might be a bit harder to understand yet it is good training for me.
THIS. this should have been the Legacy of Kain storyline. William the Just paradox with Raziel as the time traveling hero
Moebius maybe found this version of the soul reaver from an alternate timeline where kain and the vampires are extinct from the hylden using human champions of their own.
4/8/2023.
I think William was always the tyrant, and Mobius' line is more of a sarcastic eye roll to Kain, like a "oh.. you got me .. yep that was always my plan, now cut my head off and go resurrect the instrument of your own destruction" kind of a thing.
Every tune you release a video on LoK, it's the highlight of my day!
So glad to see more of these videos. They are fantastic, both in presentation and content. Kudos!
I see nothing minor here. This is a great series I'm thankful to have played from start to finish.
Please keep the videos running.