The Most Important Background Vocals Trick
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ย. 2024
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Artist: Brave Holiday
Song Title: Just Kids
Producer:Andrew Bergthold
In this episode of MakeMineMusic, Marc Daniel Nelson shows a sneaky but extremely
effective trick to get your background vocals to stay under the lead which in turn makes
the lead vocal even stronger. Follow along as he shows you step by step. Is this the most
important Background vocals trick?
This trick has saved Marc an incredible amount of time when trying to get the clarity needed to get the background vocals sit up front, and behind the lead vocals, without sounding brash or like they are taking over the main lead vocal.
The song used to demonstrate this trick is “Just Kids” by Andrew Bergthold
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What do YOU do when mixing vocals? Comment below!
for certain songs, I have rolled off the high end on all the backups, like over 5k
I use a similar trick but using a plugin called TrackSpacer by WavesFactory, which ducks down the frequencies to make room for the source to poke out, it's almost like sidechain compression but less "squashy".
I mostly despair...:-)
DS-ing is definitely something I do but never thought about a multiband side chained from the main Vox. Good idea. Thanks! One thing I do is more in tracking getting the BVs sung from further away (like 18 inches or more depending on the style). This makes less work for the compressor. Less sibilants, plosives and proximity affect.
Clip gaining the vocal helps where needed helps hit the vocal compressor in a more even, better fashion - and a bit of tape delay on the vox is nice too.
Nobody is talking about the awesome lighting, color palette, and color contrast of your video. They're awesome.
Just a friendly heads up! Andrew Bergthold is a friend, and he was the producer on this. The artist is actually Brave Holiday. Just want to give them credit too. Thanks for a great video!
I always automate the level of S's and P's almost all the way down if the BVs and main vocals are singing the exact same parts. As long as they are present in the main vocal your ear doesnt notice.
Simple and effective. Automation can solve most problems that people try to fix with fancy effects processing.
So grateful for Produce Like a Pro in helping us to sit at the feet of these talented engineers...thank you Marc for participating.
Can we get a video just showing off the Fairchild? BTW, great process and perfect timing as I have a few songs with 3-part background vocals.
Marvellous idea!
UnfairChild
This trick also seems to add a lot of sweet dynamic variance between the front and backing vox. Awesome!
It's almost an jawdropping reaction on this genius trick! Why did i never think about that? I usually just cut out the S's and drop them in volume, Haha
Hey, don't worry. That is another great way to address this situation. I'm not entirely convinced that it would take THAT much longer anyways. I do the same thing.
Same here.
I am old and feeble so I watched it twice...oh hell yeah...cool trick. I'm curious since I dont have that particular plugin......what is the lo pass cut off and slope you used on that band?
Great move!
Yes, simple, but effective!
@@brettjockell6611 The cutoff is set to about 3.7k and it looks like the default slope of 24db/oct.
Just the concept opens up all kinds of ideas for controlling other frequencies.
Exactly!
As a jingle singer in the 70's and 80's, it was common to drop "esses" as a bg singer. Cleaned up splashy esses without de essers
Indeed! I often make sure BV singers either don’t sing them or I will mute them or bring them down afterwards
With Melodyne one can just completely remove the Ss from the BVs. Since you don’t need more than one S across the entire vocals you can adjust that one S how you like. But of course , great advice here, Great work Marc!
YES! The lost skill that EVERY jingle singer in Chicago all knew how to do in the 1980’s.
Lost knowledge is a real thing.
It’s not limited to Roman Road Building.
I actually remove it with fade ins but also sing backings without ts and sses
Finally getting round to watching this and it's the perfect time for this trick.
Working on a mix where the artist thought my approach to the backing vocals was too present and I think this will be a godsend in tucking some of the harshness back!
What a cool trick. I just found a new problem and fix to look out for. This dude mixes some great tracks. He's so good.
Thank you again MDN - excellent tip for free. And you don't only control the "s" with MB compression. At the same time you control high frequencies and this way send the background vocal further and create more space for lead vocal.
wrapping up an LP mix right now and this was the EXACT thing that my BV bus needed. thanks for the trick as always ya'll!
Fantastic!
Very creative. Years of experience guides to the top!
You can have 1 background do the S… and the others use a TH on the S as if lisping…. You can also direct the background singers except for 1 to just mis-pronounce and leave of the S completely off the word…instead of sun (un) … sounds ridiculous but it absolutely works and uses less processing
that means telling them to behave like Frankenstein...or comedians...going to be hard to sustain over longer periods of time.
Wow that is a THICCCCC mix, good hearing these tips, not what I expected to get what I clicked in, but gonna be massively helpful since I"m producing AND tracking AND writing AND singing on my next album for NICU... boutta head back into the home recording booth to start working on background vocals for the album's main single. This gives me some great ideas about what I can expect to adjust in production vs. what I need to think about when coming up with cool vocal harmonies.. helps alot.
Who are the philistines who give this man a thumbs down? For shame... Marc, once again your expertise rocks my world. Thankyou man, thank you!
Unfortunately, you can impress everyone. Some people will always find fault in everything.
THANK YOU Brother!! I do something similar with Bass, only side chain the bottom end, but never thought to do it on vocals. Doing this on a record right now, you just saved me a load of time! X
Doctor (MD) Nelson does it again, magic vocals! Thank you Dr.
Mixing Multiple Tracks like this...CLICK ON THE VIDEO BOOM !!!! YOU SOLVED THE PROBLEM I WAS HAVING...THANK YOU BRO!!!
You share such practical and useful techniques I am always impressed with the depth of knowledge you are putting into your work. Thank you, thank you, thank you…
This is a phenomenal idea
What a great technique! Thanks @ProduceLikeAPro for these mini-classes!
Nice trick! Cool and quick way to get the BGVs to play nice with the Lead Vox.
The ducking of certain frequencies by side chaining is a very useful trick.
Ideas triggered!
Thnx :-)
Thanks for the detailing tips ,its really helpful
I see a new MDN or Warren video, and I get my notebook out. Another great tip. Thank you!
Thank you. I really gain insight from your tutorials. Truly thankful.
I get such a huge smile when I hear that intro music! Marc you are my hero and my favorite mixer. Great info as usual my friend 🤘
brilliant! this is so helpful. thank you!
The king Nelson!
Great tip, you always bring the goods! Thank you....
thank you for another great show, Produce like a Pro has to be the best for producers on TH-cam
Marc is AMAZING!
Damn, this technique sounds so logical now. When trying to keep the backing vocals in the back, I thought it was a good idea to run a transient controller over them to kill the transients which tend to stand out in the mix where you don't want them, but I never got great results with it.
Yes! Agreed 100%!
I just tried this today actually. Also didn’t work very well.
@@Knardsh yes, using transient control really is putting a bandaid on a gaping wound!
Super pro tip!
Really nice move. Love your work buddy :)
Another super informative video from Marc. A technique that I will be using.
Thank you Marc ❤️
Awesome tip! Thanks Marc!
yes sir!❤️
Marc you're the man!
Always feel smarter after your videos thanks a bunch!
Very clever. Thank you!
Top stuff … as usual 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Great technique
Great tip as always, thanks!
Thank you so much for that big fat clue!
I can totally relate. Esses in delays too can be annoying.
Smashing video Marc. Thanks very much. Keep them coming
You always learn something new, thank you!
I'll take that. Thank you very much
It’s all about the ear! Another secret is to have one track with no effects. Also panning helps too and flangers. Just gotta kno how to level it.
I wish that you could elaborate on "keying it". -I think that you're creating a side chain de-esser, using the main vox as a trigger to reduce top freqs of bgrnd vox; and "keying it" is glossed over, and I suspect that it tops the important aspects of this process.
The key is the source that triggers a certain effect : in that case the key is the lead vocal
Greatly improved my bcks! thank u brother
Very very useful tip. Thank you so much for sharing
Great tip from MDN. Plus his name is Marc, can't go wrong there!! LMAO
That's a pretty smart technique. Thanks for sharing.
Great vid. What I didn't get though is how you just send out the esses as a trigger out of Bus3. As I have understood, B3 contains the DeEsser. Fine. It sends the signal out to the BVOX Bus. there you put the Multibandcompressor, which filters out the Esses. My missing link is the Esses trigger coming from Bus 3, since I can only see the complete, de-essed signal coming out there......hhhhhhmmmm Hope this is not to umm.
BTW: I like your vids!
as always, great content!
Fantastic tip!
Thanks for the tip! 👍🏼
It would be great if you could do a vocal processing chain step by step on this track. I think this is what most people shoot for in terms of getting the vocals to sit properly in the mix.
learned this the hard way esp because i was recording bv's with a 2db high shelf. the buildup was nasty and i didnt realise until id tracked them all. my crude on-the-fly idea was just to cut the sybs really aggressively on all but one or two of the bv tracks. this way is obv way more profesh so thanks for that
yes sir!👌
Wow the comments are great. I've learned so much reading everyone's comments. There are many ways to do this. I had no idea!
I love our community!
Very cool Marc! Thanks!
Fantastic idea!... dammit, I wish I woulda thought of that! Seems so obvious once you said it
the fairchild in the background is all what im looking at
Cool...I enjoyed that song...has a nice vibe...✌💜😃🎸🎤🎧🎹
Bro i never though about that "deess in the backVocals" never even saw nobody talking about it. Wow thats a good and simple trick.
Marvellous!
But I sidechain a lot kick-bass, or others things when needed!
But it is a cool trick!!
Always great to see!!
Thanks guys!!
Nice One. Thanks.
Thx you learned alot
Glad to hear it
Thanks 👌
Thanks a million, really good trick. :-)
im gonna try this!
Thank you for sharing this trick
Very interesting.........thank you
Super tricks THX
Cool song!
This is an amazing technique!
Is there a limiter on the master bus giving overall volume boost and presence?
M. Nielsen equal automatic thumbs up😊
Great stuff as always. Always excited to see pros talk about mixing background vocals. I also enjoyed how you were fading in and out the song you're working with but.., I think you were kinda doing that headphone wearing yelling thing as the volume went up ROFL. Too funny. Marc, love your videos!!
:)
Cool trick!
I'm curious though... How different is this compared to simply de-essing the background vocals.
Assuming all the vocals are singing the same lines, wouldn't that create the same effect?
I think the background vocals do have some type of de-essing, whether with a plugin or gain riding. With this trick the lead vocal always remains upfront, when the lead is not playing the backgrounds will come in front of the mix. So, the sidechain effect is there to create dynamic movement.
Can You show us how You mix the background vocals? From eq to compression to reverbs?
Amazing...
Wow! That’s amazing.
I used to add little automations to all the S’s manually and it was sooooo time consuming
I still do it manually with clip gain since I have more control and flexibility this way. The technique shared by MDN on the video definitely has its place but I don't see myself using it on every mix.
This is great for post production! However our lead/bgvs take turns live on Sunday.
There's ways to implement this live! If the live console has a multiband dynamics processor, this is totally do-able! In real time using sub groups. For instance, do this all the time on tour with my Allen and Heath dLive system! Feel free to reach out for more info :) @tythesoundguy
@@tythesoundguy good to know! I mix in Logic Pro on a MacBook connected to the console via aes50, controlled with an iPad since I’m also playing bass at the same time. 🤷🏼♂️
@@danielfmyers nice, if you're doing the full mix in Logic, then feel free to use track stacks or sub grouping/aux sends to pull this off, it should work great!
I see what you're doing, and it makes sense... But if you want real honesty, the "improvement" is only slight. The thing that helps, is that you've started out with a REALLY GOOD mix of lead to background vocals to begin with... It's really not as bad as the "mess" of "Ss" that you described before playing it. The multi-band compression does seem to give the lead vocal a bit more clarity in those parts where it's kicking in to compress the background, but like I said, it was already a pretty good mix to begin with.
Is there a tutorial on how to get such huge depth with the background vocals
Thanks for the awesome tip, but maybe do some more dedicated comparisons when making vids like this in the future? There is really only one or two places where you do a straight head-to-head comparison, & those convoluted w/pauses & rewinds. I like to only use my ears in videos like this, & there just wasn't enough sonically for me to grab a hold of. Just a suggestion.
Amazing 🤘
How did u mix this particular vocals because I really like the mix pl kindly break it down
Need 2 times play to actually hear the background vocals in that crowd mix 😟
You look like Jacob from Lost. Also thanks for the tutorial.
dog be like, wow he loves this song, keeps playing it over and over
Pretty tricky. Think of that whilst hiking on Mulholland?🤣😎