Secretariat had one miracle day where he beat a small field with virtually nothing in it and he’s heralded as the greatest ever! They had to fudge the numbers to give him the Preakness record over Tanks Prospect! Truth be told he lost in the Wood Memorial finishing 3rd! and lost to a no name named Onion in the Travers trained by the Giant Killer Jetkens! Maybe the day of the Belmont he felt his oats and was nearly unbeatable but let’s face it that margin would only be 3 lengths at best going up against the likes of a Citation or Point Given. And we’ll never know the greatness of Man O’War because his jockey was told to ease him in 75 percent of his races. But take away that Belmont and he was a very beatable horse. As referenced here. You put him in a field with Zenyatta, Man O’ War, Citation, Seattle Slew, Kelso, Point Given, Easy Goer, War Admiral, and run a Belmont 10 times and you might have a different winner each time depending upon how the race set up! Slew could easily run stride for stride with him for 6 furlongs to a mile! Take a look at Slews Jockey Club in 1978. And with a pace like that it would set up for a Zenyatta and Man ‘O War and Kelso! Secretariat no doubt was a great horse. But let’s not fall in love with that Belmont and look at the whole body of work and we see that he’s definitely top 5 but could be beaten by almost any of those I mentioned in a Belmont depending upon how the race and post positions set up.
No Rachel would or zenyatta because she bet colts they are only fillys secretariat only bet colts so they are better secretariat would of went against fillys if he was not afraid to zenyatta and Rachel alexandra set new records every race they have been undefeated in there races secretariat got defeated so ya he would of set a new record because just because he won by 31 lengths does not mean that fillys are not faster than him.
Ruffian still has speed records that have NEVER been beat or matched. She was an amazingly fast girl. She looked a lot like Ms. Zenyatta. Was just about as big too.
I think and feel Ruffian should have won. I wonder what factors are used in their algorithms to determine how each virtual horse runs. Definitely should have been Ruffian.
Out of those horses Ruffian would have won. Yes Zenyatta is extremely fast on the last stretch but Ruffian would have pulled away so much that she would not have been able to catch up. I love both of them very much but in my opinion Ruffian was better. Ruffian got in the front and stayed in the front.
Zenyatta had great closing speed. She broke track speed records even though she diddled behind for three quarters of the race. But what happens if she starts early with her speed? Is there any horse that could keep up with her? Doubtful.
I'm sorry but Zenyatta would never have won in a real live race, Ruffian would have been finished before the other horses would have been ready to come down the finial streach.
You have got that wrong go and look at Zenyatta's times for the various distances and she has ruffian beat in every distance that the two horses ran in.
If Secretariat is included in this group of horses the outcome will be Secretariat will be in front and the result will be he is fulling away by 31 lengths or more ...
Rachel last? I doubt it. And Ruffian just fade like that? No, never. I love Zenyatta along with the rest of these horses but I don't see her toying with them like did her normal competitors. If anything Ruffian would have still been up there.
I actually think this is very close to what would ACTUALLY happen! Dont get me wrong, Ruffian was a great filly, but we never saw her go up against any males and she hardly ever went up against very skilled mares. Zenyatta however, proved herself on two surfaces in all 20 races against good mares and very strong males. Give Z some credit.
Why is it difficult for another thoroughbred horse like Secretariat to appear on stage? It is because nature, on few occasions, throws a flower so that we appreciate the greatness of it ... and Secretariat, is that, a wonderful and adorable flower that came to fill our hearts with happiness ..
This simulation is ridiculous. Yes, Barbaro, Big Brown, Rachel, Smarty, and Cigar are good horses, great horses even. But they are a far cry from immortals like Seabiscuit, Ruffian, Citation, Zenyatta, and Affirmed. In a race like this, I would expect one of the latter to win... personally I believe Seabiscuit is the best horse in the field by far.
Secretariat had 5 losses in 21 starts. The REAL disgrace is where is Man O' War? Like I told the other commenter yes if you insert ANY horse in the Derby or the triple crown in 73' with their times they lose every time BUT that is not going to happen as they raced different races in different times AND Man O' War broke all records WHILE carrying an extra 140 lbs in weights and being restrained. So if you inserted Secretariat into Zenyatta's run I think she runs him down, BUT I think Man O' War is too much for all of them...
Leonardo Donato look at secretariats stride and man O’ wars. I’ve seen both horses races in videos. Both are great horses but nobody can come close to big red
If this had been real, ruffian hat been in the finish while the others just had reached the Finish line... she is untouchable and if THAT is how it could realyy happen, it just doesn't go with me...
CourageousSam agreed this was terrible. Ruffian should won or Seabiscuit lol plus not to add she would of at least kept her lead in 2. Ruffian never gives up
Wrong..Look at Zenyatta times for various distances and look at Ruffian time. Damn you fucks like picking Ruffian because she died but she wouldn't have beat Zenyatta.
Zenyatta is probably best dirt horse of past 20 years. Although most of her wins were against the girls she did beat the boys when it counted. This is only a simulation and is only as good as the data put into it. Secretariat is not included because on his best day he was untouchable.
Zenyatta was, primarily, a specialist in the failed experiment of synthetic surface. By my count, Zenyatta ran four times on natural dirt: the El Encino, her first stakes win, run eight months before Santa Anita installed an artificial Cushion Track surface; her two ventures to Oaklawn Park for the Apple Blossom Invitational; and the 2010 Breeders' Cup Classic, held at Churchill Downs, where she lost. (I acknowledge she could have/should have won that race. But even two wins rather than one in open competition wouldn't hike her up to the top IMO.) The California Horse Racing Board had mandated all CA tracks convert to synthetic by the end of 2007. Hollywood Park, where Zenyatta ran her first two races in November and December of 2006, had converted to Cushion Track (synthetic fiber, elastic fiber and granulated rubber, all coated with wax and mixed with silica) a few months prior to her debut. Del Mar converted to Polytrack (polypropylene fibers, rubber, and silica sand, all beneath a wax coating) early in 2007, well before Zenyatta ran there. Santa Anita reconverted to natural dirt in December 2010, Del Mar in 2015. Hollywood Park has closed. Zenyatta could handle dirt, obviously, winning 3 of 4 starts on the surface. But I am uncomfortable calling a horse who ran on actual dirt a total of four times the best on that surface in the past two decades. Zenyatta's style of running was ideal for synthetic, which favors long striding horses with a late kick. Form on synthetic FAR more resembles form on turf than it does that on natural dirt surface. Many good speed horses have flopped on synthetic, unable to adapt. Too bad Zenyatta was never tried on grass.
Cool simulation, though I think that Ruffian, had she lived longer, would have been the queen of the racetrack. Zenyatta doesn't win by the same margins as Ruffian did, and Ruffian also set or met track records every time she ran. Love Zenyatta, but Ruffian was in another league.
You realize Secretariat had 5 losses to sub par competition in 21 starts right? No? Once again someone not doing their research and just using opinion instead of data. Yes Secretariat was incredible and if you use the 1973 race and insert Zenyatta Secretariat would win (with any horse) BUT that is not going to happen as the horses lived 40 years apart. So if it wasn't that specific race in the Derby I think Zenyatta runs him down. Who you should be upset at not being in the field is Man O'war...
if this was a real field zenyatta had a LEGIT chance to run LAST...having zenyatta win this simulation puts a huge black eye on this simulation program
@@spaz5138 a horse being defeated means nothing. Way to many variables to use that as a stat. Not mention Sec was dealing with injury during the wood. Secs times stand for themselves and 40 years later have never been beaten. He was perfection
Ruffian was a genuine freak, in the CCAO she went 1½ miles in her front running style was 3 to 6 lengths ahead of the competition and still pulled away to win like a secretariat finish. All the while never being tested at such distance. #4 horse right behind kelso no questions
I used this simulation before. It is simply that each horse has a data file which has basic info like stamina, speed and other racing traits. The simulation uses these data to make them run. The hardest to deal with are ribot, sea bird, secretariat, man o war and phar lap. The rest are pedestrians. And in a 10 horses field, if you race them 10 times, 7/10 times may get you a different winner. Simple as that.
no need to get defensive. I made a statement that is far from rude. (And though I see your point, any comment viewable for everyone, naturally attracts attention... whether it's directed at a specific person or not). I just thought the simulation was kind of a funny way to decide who is best... NOT diminishing Z's accomplishments in any way.
I know, right? She even was injured, but continued to run, and won a new stakes record. She was untouchable, no one could ever get past her when she pulled ahead
+Paige Northrock Right on. She wouldn't give up her lead once she had it. She's my favorite horse of all time because of her heart to race. This 'race' is greatly incorrect.
Oh where oh where is my secretariat oh where oh where could he be? Oh that's right he's to good for that because they know he would beat her XD May I mention man o war? Come on.
Secretariat probably would have beat her. He was the better horse. Although she had the same stride angle as Secretariat and also had about 1 ft. longer in her stride. I don't think she had a big enough engine to beat the great one.
add secretariat and slew and you got probably the most famous horses of all time in this race...who would have been the longshot? rachel alexandra would be my guess or big brown....oh and they forgot curlin as well
that's a preatty cool simulation, it's a challenge seeing who would really win these races given the time periods. I would imagine that the new aged horses would do better since better training is provided as the modern age progresses.
Zero...She also has INFERIOR Speed Figures compared to Most Horses in this Race...Real Race She would have had a Legit chance to Finish in the Back of the Field...This Simulation Program they used is Dumber than a Box of rocks
Ruffian would have won. That is all that I have to say. In case you didn't know, in every single race that she ran her jockey was choking her to the wire b/c he was afraid that she would hurt herself from going so fast. Zenyatta may be a great racehorse but Ruffian wouldn't have let anyone past her, even if it killed her. I don't think that all of those horses would have slowed down and just fallen back like that.
For the haters saying zenyatta wouldnt have won in real life, you are wrong, she was never ran to her max and when she was in the last race, mike fucked up bad by having her dead dead last too far back for too long and legit that’s why she lost, zenyatta is bigger than most and her strides are way longer than any horse
Out of that field I like Seabiscuit, Big Brown, Affirmed, and Rachel Alizandra... Where's Secretariat? They didn't put him in bc they knew he would win... They wanted something more down to the wire
@FloridaVermont Another way of looking at Zenyatta's probable performance decline is to consider this: in the 2010 Clement Hirsch Zenyatta ran 3.55 seconds slower than her 2008 Clement Hirsch. Zenyatta ran two 108 BSF's (which for synthetics is incredible) before winning the 2008 Ladies Classic. This year she ran a 95 BSF/101 BSF before running a 111 BSF in the Breeders Cup Classic. It's not unreasonable to think Zenyatta would have put up a much more compelling performance given her 08 form.
My fantasy 10-horse race, mile and a quarter on dry dirt. Ruffian, Zenyatta, Affirmed, Kelso, Citation, Man O'War, his son War Admiral, Cigar, Seattle Slew, and Winx of Australia. Secretariat sits this one out because of his obvious advantage of having a heart twice the size of everyone else. My fantasy ending - photo finish with all horses in line, with no obvious winner or loser.
I only recognized Seabiscuit's name, but the thing I found most interesting about this simulation was how CBS and 60 Minutes were advertised on the gate.
So true my good griend! That is what makes SEC's TC campaign so miraculous. In EVERY race he accomplished a supernatural feat! In the Derby, he accelerated from START to FINISH, running each qtr mile faster than the previous incl. an unheard of 23 second final qtr. The "move" from last to 1st on the steepest turn on a North Amer. track "3-wide" in the Preakness left veteran analysts SPEECHLESS & the Belmont...well...I think NOBODY needs to elaborate on that one..it speaks for itself!!!
I loved Ruffian too but keep in mind she never let another MARE or FILLY pass her...NEVER RACING AGAINST A COLT until the Match race against Foolish Pleasure. While we will never know how that Match race would have unfolded, firmly believe it wouldahve been an incredible battle straight to the wire!
@DBJKAJ I honestly can't speak for the crop of fillies she raced against but you can't argue track times which she equaled or set records everytime out and all but 1 still stand today, and she did that while being held back most of the time. She would have ran away from Foolish Pleasure down the stretch.
Con't: Lets place SEC's TC accomplishment in perspective. Sea Bird II (who was unquestionably awesome & considered by many as the finest of all European horses) ran 8 races in 2 years & it took Frankel 3 years to run 14 races as well as not exceeding 8 furlongs until he was 4+ years-old? Yet in the span of 5 weeks, SEC posted 3 WORLD-CLASS performances that have NEVER been matched by any North Amer. 3-year old! FYI, I likewise think Nijnsky, Shergar & Sea The Stars were amazing horses!
Ruffian set the standard for Zenyatta and Ruffian was the first queen. You don't know anything about Ruffian because she is far far better than Zenyatta.
I see no Secretariat or Man O'War. Here's how Zenyatta "measures up" (using that term losely) against Secretariat: On dirt, 1-1/4 mile: Zenyatta (BreedersCup) - 2.02.28; Secretariat (KentuckyDerby) - 1.59.40 On dirt, 1-1/8 mile: Zenyatta (AppleBlossom) - 1.50.71; Secretariat (MarlboroCup) - 1.45.40 But that wouldn't make for a very interesting race.
Just taking this field into consideration and not discussing the host of other racehorses that were omitted from the field, how do you consider this a true simulation when Ruffian was never headed at any fraction in any of her past performances? It's one thing to be an undefeated horse, which is a GREAT accomplishment, but to never be headed? Ruffian has "All Ones" in her past performances.
Yes, Zenyatta was a super horse. She would have won her last race if she had started her backstretch run about a second sooner. Jockey's fault? Probably not. I think Z controlled her own destiny, and only made one little mistake. But, you have to list the other great horse, Secretariat. He won by about 33 lengths. You got to give the 2 other horses credit for showing up (at the Belmont). Besides speed, both these horses had huge personalities.
Rachael is the best filly I have ever seen. Not sure if she would have been a better mare than zenyatta but wow was she good. That oaks day was one of the best races I have ever seen.
Well i love every horses in this sim.. But sim never could do any justice on real race, because it left one major point, the horse spirit during the race..
Interesting; but I'd like to know the science they used behind this as well as the process they used for selecting the horses and what physics they used in the simulation for chosing who won.
@FloridaVermont With respect to track records, you are making an erroneous assumption: that all tracks have identical variants. The intrinsic speed of a track is not set in stone and is influenced by weather, track maintenance, and other variables. Furthermore, there are technological advances. Next, all horses have subpar performances and we can't safely assume a horse ran its best each time it runs in a highly visible race. It's pure folly to compare horses across generations.
Interesting simulation. Ruffian always came out of the gate blazing and led for the entire duration for all of her races, but how would she respond to the onslaught of Zen in the final stretch? Ruffian proved in the CCA Oaks she had the stamina to last 1.5mi with energy to spare; I really can't see her letting everyone pass by her so easily at the end. I wonder what stats this program uses to create the simulation, only times, or does it take handicaps, track surfaces, etc. into consideration? Many rules have changed over the time frame of all these horses' respective primes.
I suspect the main consideration was "how popular is Zenyatta?," because I seriously doubt this would have been the finish in a real-life race. Consider some of the horses left out of "the best"--Secretariat, Man o' War, Dr. Fager. I love Zenyatta, I really do, and I watch her win videos regularly, but I just can't go along with this simulation.
qhsperson I think the point was just to get a bunch of great horses from the past and see how they fare against each other. If they did want the top horses of all time they missed, because I don't know of anyone who doesn't have Secretariat and Man o War in their top 5. As for the actual simulation, I could see it holding up up on turf. If it were on dirt I see it playing out very much like her 2010 Breeder's Cup Classic. Yeah she would make a push, but the reason she was SO far back in that race is because the pace was set higher than most she had been in. Ruffian would likely put her in a similar position, I don't know if Z could catch up or not. On turf I'd say yes, on dirt, she probably comes up just short.
@FloridaVermont I would submit that Zenyatta's 111 BSF in the 2010 Breeder's Cup Classic was not her best performance (and not simply because of her lackluster start). Zenyatta routinely ran near track records when running on synthetics in CA back in 2008 (her 4 year old campaign, which was probably her best). In the 2008 Clement Hirsch she set a track record going 8.5F in 1:41:48. That is the best time in four complete seasons of racing over that well-traveled distance.
Secretariat wasn't included only because his time at the distance was much quicker than the others. It wouldn't have been as good of a race for the others if he had run away and taken the lead by many lengths. It's more to see how they would do.
I get the whole filly bias but if you really want to see what would happen ... You gotta add (to Zenyatta, Rachel Alexandra, and Ruffian) Personal Ensign, Lady's Secret, Genuine Risk, Winning Colors, Rags To Riches, Ta Wee, Twighlight Tear, Winx, Black Caviar, Cicada, Princess Rooney, Desert Vixen, Terlingua, Devona Dale, Have De Gras, Eight Belles, Miesque,...Can't forget Imp, Mother Goose, Acorn, Bewitched...should I keep going? I'd be amiss if I didn't include Go For Wand (no telling how good she actually was, she was a freak of nature...) If you haven't heard of any of these racing ladies, Queens of the Turf...may I suggest you look them up?
Well a lot of these mares would not find it a fair race for them. Some horses are turf, some synthetic is their best, and some prefer dirt. Usually horses stay within their best track. That was what hurt Zenyatta in her last race. She raced almost exclusively on synthetic which does not kick up as much as dirt track does. Because she breaks last she took a stinging spray of dirt she had never experienced. She almost quit running. That is why Mike has to let her lag back and pull herself together.
Sadly we will never really know what Ruffian would have became. Zenyatta and Ruffian are the 2 greatest fillies ever. We all know that either could not run with Secretariat's best. Any other horse couldn't either. Just enjoy the simulation for what it is. Fun!
The reason Secretariat isn't in here is because the outcome wouldn't have been fair to the other horses, Secretariat would have won by 30+ lengths.
My thoughts also. It would have been amusing though to see both Zenyatta and Secretariat battle for last position then both heading towards the lead.
Like he did against Onion or Angie Lite?
Secretariat had one miracle day where he beat a small field with virtually nothing in it and he’s heralded as the greatest ever! They had to fudge the numbers to give him the Preakness record over Tanks Prospect! Truth be told he lost in the Wood Memorial finishing 3rd! and lost to a no name named Onion in the Travers trained by the Giant Killer Jetkens! Maybe the day of the Belmont he felt his oats and was nearly unbeatable but let’s face it that margin would only be 3 lengths at best going up against the likes of a Citation or Point Given. And we’ll never know the greatness of Man O’War because his jockey was told to ease him in 75 percent of his races. But take away that Belmont and he was a very beatable horse. As referenced here. You put him in a field with Zenyatta, Man O’ War, Citation, Seattle Slew, Kelso, Point Given, Easy Goer, War Admiral, and run a Belmont 10 times and you might have a different winner each time depending upon how the race set up! Slew could easily run stride for stride with him for 6 furlongs to a mile! Take a look at Slews Jockey Club in 1978. And with a pace like that it would set up for a Zenyatta and Man ‘O War and Kelso! Secretariat no doubt was a great horse. But let’s not fall in love with that Belmont and look at the whole body of work and we see that he’s definitely top 5 but could be beaten by almost any of those I mentioned in a Belmont depending upon how the race and post positions set up.
@@theeverseeingeye7290 you speak nothing but facts
No Rachel would or zenyatta because she bet colts they are only fillys secretariat only bet colts so they are better secretariat would of went against fillys if he was not afraid to zenyatta and Rachel alexandra set new records every race they have been undefeated in there races secretariat got defeated so ya he would of set a new record because just because he won by 31 lengths does not mean that fillys are not faster than him.
Ruffian still has speed records that have NEVER been beat or matched. She was an amazingly fast girl. She looked a lot like Ms. Zenyatta. Was just about as big too.
Zenyatta was much bigger than Ruffian.
I think and feel Ruffian should have won. I wonder what factors are used in their algorithms to determine how each virtual horse runs. Definitely should have been Ruffian.
I can't believe you left Secretariat out of this simulation.
It because they know he would beat her and that would start a big controversy XD
I'm appalled that they would place cigar in this whack-a-doo sim. How many people actually think of him when they think of horse racing?
XD I know right!!
Are you kidding.. Cigar is one of the all time greats...
Love the way cigar moved aside last second to let zenyatta through. Rubbish sim.
Zenyatta will always be the queen ❤️❤️❤️
Ruffian would never burn like that she ran a 1.25 mile course and still had energy to run in real life.
Ruffian is clearly the best -______-
You forgot Secretariat, Man O' War, Forego, Seattle Slew, Spectacular Bid, Dr. Fager, Kelso, and Plenty of other great horses.
I love Secretariat.
Out of those horses Ruffian would have won. Yes Zenyatta is extremely fast on the last stretch but Ruffian would have pulled away so much that she would not have been able to catch up. I love both of them very much but in my opinion Ruffian was better. Ruffian got in the front and stayed in the front.
And she'd rather break herself, hurt herselfor even kill herself trying to stay in front than to give up. She proved that more then once...
Zenyatta had great closing speed. She broke track speed records even though she diddled behind for three quarters of the race. But what happens if she starts early with her speed? Is there any horse that could keep up with her? Doubtful.
I'm sorry but Zenyatta would never have won in a real live race, Ruffian would have been finished before the other horses would have been ready to come down the finial streach.
Your right
Not sure. In a real race Rachel Alexandra wouldn't finished last. And she beats any of Ruffians records.
You have got that wrong go and look at Zenyatta's times for the various distances and she has ruffian beat in every distance that the two horses ran in.
@@jnormanton ruffian fanboys don't listen to times and logic. They just hype her up because she died.
Excuse me?
Ruffian never beat a male horse like Zenyatta.
I find it sad that they placed Ruffian 6th.
I’m with you no way Ruffian comes in 6th
RUFFIAN IS THE BEST !!!!!!!!
Where is secretariat???
Yes the great one, the destroyer of worlds. Secretariat would smoke them all.
If Secretariat is included in this group of horses the outcome will be Secretariat will be in front and the result will be he is fulling away by 31 lengths or more ...
Rachel last? I doubt it. And Ruffian just fade like that? No, never. I love Zenyatta along with the rest of these horses but I don't see her toying with them like did her normal competitors. If anything Ruffian would have still been up there.
RidingWithRuffian exactly!!!
So Ruffian would have beaten multiple male horses in one race but she never beat any her entire career?
I actually think this is very close to what would ACTUALLY happen! Dont get me wrong, Ruffian was a great filly, but we never saw her go up against any males and she hardly ever went up against very skilled mares. Zenyatta however, proved herself on two surfaces in all 20 races against good mares and very strong males. Give Z some credit.
Secretariat, Man O War, and add in American Pharoah, the 1st Grand Slam winner. That'd probably round out a pretty nice field.
Yea I dont know about this! Ruffian would have beaten Zenyatta, along with Citation and Barbaro
So Ruffian would have beaten 2 male horses in the same race but she never beat a male horse her entire career?
Make it make sense
not a chance that ruffian was coming in sixth place, she'd have won!
Why is it difficult for another thoroughbred horse like Secretariat to appear on stage? It is because nature, on few occasions, throws a flower so that we appreciate the greatness of it ... and Secretariat, is that, a wonderful and adorable flower that came to fill our hearts with happiness ..
This simulation is ridiculous. Yes, Barbaro, Big Brown, Rachel, Smarty, and Cigar are good horses, great horses even. But they are a far cry from immortals like Seabiscuit, Ruffian, Citation, Zenyatta, and Affirmed. In a race like this, I would expect one of the latter to win... personally I believe Seabiscuit is the best horse in the field by far.
The immortals finished 1-3 and 5-6 in this race so how is it ridiculous lmao
I was expecting Secreteriat :(
Where's Secretariat?!?!?!?! XD
He obviously would have won considering his triple crown records still stand.
Bruhh, i know. Just thought he should have been included.
Secretariat had 5 losses in 21 starts. The REAL disgrace is where is Man O' War?
Like I told the other commenter yes if you insert ANY horse in the Derby or the triple crown in 73' with their times they lose every time BUT that is not going to happen as they raced different races in different times AND Man O' War broke all records WHILE carrying an extra 140 lbs in weights and being restrained. So if you inserted Secretariat into Zenyatta's run I think she runs him down, BUT I think Man O' War is too much for all of them...
Leonardo Donato look at secretariats stride and man O’ wars. I’ve seen both horses races in videos. Both are great horses but nobody can come close to big red
Let's face it. Secretariat was in a class by himself.
haha, yes :DD
Secretariat is the best !^^
Ok, this is making me so mad, WHERE IS SECREARIAT, He caould have beaten ALL of those horses!!!!
That’s why they didn’t have Secretariat in it
No its because zenyatta and Rachel alexandra would of beat him because he only bet colts it does not mean that fillys are faster than him so ya.
If this had been real, ruffian hat been in the finish while the others just had reached the Finish line...
she is untouchable and if THAT is how it could realyy happen, it just doesn't go with me...
CourageousSam agreed this was terrible. Ruffian should won or Seabiscuit lol plus not to add she would of at least kept her lead in 2. Ruffian never gives up
the biscuit never gave up either. running on 1938 injuries that could be healed better today. I guess Secretariat was a late scratch. lol.
CourageousSam
yeah nah , secretariat would leave ruffian in the dust
Wrong..Look at Zenyatta times for various distances and look at Ruffian time.
Damn you fucks like picking Ruffian because she died but she wouldn't have beat Zenyatta.
Man O War could beat them all with ease, and there’s no way Citation looses.
where's secertrait?
It would have been a one horse race, again. Remember Belmont.
Zenyatta is probably best dirt horse of past 20 years. Although most of her wins were against the girls she did beat the boys when it counted. This is only a simulation and is only as good as the data put into it. Secretariat is not included because on his best day he was untouchable.
Zenyatta was, primarily, a specialist in the failed experiment of synthetic surface. By my count, Zenyatta ran four times on natural dirt: the El Encino, her first stakes win, run eight months before Santa Anita installed an artificial Cushion Track surface; her two ventures to Oaklawn Park for the Apple Blossom Invitational; and the 2010 Breeders' Cup Classic, held at Churchill Downs, where she lost. (I acknowledge she could have/should have won that race. But even two wins rather than one in open competition wouldn't hike her up to the top IMO.)
The California Horse Racing Board had mandated all CA tracks convert to synthetic by the end of 2007. Hollywood Park, where Zenyatta ran her first two races in November and December of 2006, had converted to Cushion Track (synthetic fiber, elastic fiber and granulated rubber, all coated with wax and mixed with silica) a few months prior to her debut. Del Mar converted to Polytrack (polypropylene fibers, rubber, and silica sand, all beneath a wax coating) early in 2007, well before Zenyatta ran there. Santa Anita reconverted to natural dirt in December 2010, Del Mar in 2015. Hollywood Park has closed.
Zenyatta could handle dirt, obviously, winning 3 of 4 starts on the surface. But I am uncomfortable calling a horse who ran on actual dirt a total of four times the best on that surface in the past two decades. Zenyatta's style of running was ideal for synthetic, which favors long striding horses with a late kick. Form on synthetic FAR more resembles form on turf than it does that on natural dirt surface. Many good speed horses have flopped on synthetic, unable to adapt. Too bad Zenyatta was never tried on grass.
wait were is the great secretariat is has to be in there he is the greatess race horse of all time
It would be kind of an insult to Big Red and Sham, for that matter. Probably why you don't see Sham in this "race" either. lol
Seattle Slew is the best race horse of all time.
Don't insult the great Seattle Slew like that
Cool simulation, though I think that Ruffian, had she lived longer, would have been the queen of the racetrack. Zenyatta doesn't win by the same margins as Ruffian did, and Ruffian also set or met track records every time she ran. Love Zenyatta, but Ruffian was in another league.
Where's Secretariat? He was the fastest race horse ever and he would beat all of them.
Yeh where is he?
+HorseLuver0206 Actually Ruffian beated some of his track records and Rachel Alexandra beated Ruffians record in the mother goose just saying. ;-)
Amberlovies oh k
It would pointless to put Secretariat in the race because he would always beat them all...
You realize Secretariat had 5 losses to sub par competition in 21 starts right? No? Once again someone not doing their research and just using opinion instead of data. Yes Secretariat was incredible and if you use the 1973 race and insert Zenyatta Secretariat would win (with any horse) BUT that is not going to happen as the horses lived 40 years apart. So if it wasn't that specific race in the Derby I think Zenyatta runs him down. Who you should be upset at not being in the field is Man O'war...
if this was a real field zenyatta had a LEGIT chance to run LAST...having zenyatta win this simulation puts a huge black eye on this simulation program
I’m just here for the “where’s Secretariat?” Comments.
i was rooting for ruffian SO bad!
wheres Secretariat? I think he wasnt added becayse he would have dominated the whole field :D
No he wouldn’t
@@ryleigh995 He would have you forgotten who he is?
Ryleigh Hayes you’re having a laugh? He would of dominated that race
No actually zenyatta and Rachel alexandra were undefeated in zenyattas 19 career starts secretariat has been defeated so ya.
@@spaz5138 a horse being defeated means nothing. Way to many variables to use that as a stat. Not mention Sec was dealing with injury during the wood. Secs times stand for themselves and 40 years later have never been beaten. He was perfection
Ruffian was a genuine freak, in the CCAO she went 1½ miles in her front running style was 3 to 6 lengths ahead of the competition and still pulled away to win like a secretariat finish. All the while never being tested at such distance. #4 horse right behind kelso no questions
I used this simulation before. It is simply that each horse has a data file which has basic info like stamina, speed and other racing traits. The simulation uses these data to make them run. The hardest to deal with are ribot, sea bird, secretariat, man o war and phar lap. The rest are pedestrians. And in a 10 horses field, if you race them 10 times, 7/10 times may get you a different winner. Simple as that.
no need to get defensive. I made a statement that is far from rude. (And though I see your point, any comment viewable for everyone, naturally attracts attention... whether it's directed at a specific person or not). I just thought the simulation was kind of a funny way to decide who is best... NOT diminishing Z's accomplishments in any way.
Ruffian would have NOT let anyone past her at all in real life.
Exactly what I was about to say. She proved that when she went head and head with Hot-N-Nasty.
I know, right? She even was injured, but continued to run, and won a new stakes record. She was untouchable, no one could ever get past her when she pulled ahead
+Paige Northrock Right on. She wouldn't give up her lead once she had it. She's my favorite horse of all time because of her heart to race. This 'race' is greatly incorrect.
nope she would have charged
Oh where oh where is my secretariat oh where oh where could he be? Oh that's right he's to good for that because they know he would beat her XD May I mention man o war? Come on.
Blame?
Secretariat probably would have beat her. He was the better horse. Although she had the same stride angle as Secretariat and also had about 1 ft. longer in her stride. I don't think she had a big enough engine to beat the great one.
And Seattle Slew
Wheres. Onion
Actually zenyatta is better because she was undefeated in her 19 career starts so ya.
Maybe they didn't put secretariat because he would beat them all no problem !
add secretariat and slew and you got probably the most famous horses of all time in this race...who would have been the longshot? rachel alexandra would be my guess or big brown....oh and they forgot curlin as well
LOL wow Pimlico wishes it looked like that!
Zenyatta was the GREATEST deep closer EVER. Might have been the most exciting to watch too.
that's a preatty cool simulation, it's a challenge seeing who would really win these races given the time periods. I would imagine that the new aged horses would do better since better training is provided as the modern age progresses.
Zenyatta yes!!! She always ran to win, never to set track records. She would have caught any horse, and win, just like she did here. 🥰
How many track records did Zenyatta set at 3 years of age???
Zero...She also has INFERIOR Speed Figures compared to Most Horses in this Race...Real Race She would have had a Legit chance to Finish in the Back of the Field...This Simulation Program they used is Dumber than a Box of rocks
this is awesome, never knew they had a horse racing simulation. I like how the show the end of the race with the top down view
Wow that is one awesome simulation. It seems so surreal . The best visual simulation ever!!!
So this is how Larry Collmus made his living?
Fantasy you say? Ok, you are right, Zenyatta won, so it must be a fantasy.
Ruffian would have won. That is all that I have to say. In case you didn't know, in every single race that she ran her jockey was choking her to the wire b/c he was afraid that she would hurt herself from going so fast. Zenyatta may be a great racehorse but Ruffian wouldn't have let anyone past her, even if it killed her. I don't think that all of those horses would have slowed down and just fallen back like that.
For the haters saying zenyatta wouldnt have won in real life, you are wrong, she was never ran to her max and when she was in the last race, mike fucked up bad by having her dead dead last too far back for too long and legit that’s why she lost, zenyatta is bigger than most and her strides are way longer than any horse
I saw a comment on the NTRA site asking about the announcer, it was Larry Collmus making the call.
Out of that field I like Seabiscuit, Big Brown, Affirmed, and Rachel Alizandra... Where's Secretariat? They didn't put him in bc they knew he would win... They wanted something more down to the wire
Secretariat and Man O' War were in this race. Didn't you hear the race call? Secretariat finished behind "Onion" and Man O' War was behind "Upset".
@FloridaVermont Another way of looking at Zenyatta's probable performance decline is to consider this: in the 2010 Clement Hirsch Zenyatta ran 3.55 seconds slower than her 2008 Clement Hirsch. Zenyatta ran two 108 BSF's (which for synthetics is incredible) before winning the 2008 Ladies Classic. This year she ran a 95 BSF/101 BSF before running a 111 BSF in the Breeders Cup Classic. It's not unreasonable to think Zenyatta would have put up a much more compelling performance given her 08 form.
My fantasy 10-horse race, mile and a quarter on dry dirt. Ruffian, Zenyatta, Affirmed, Kelso, Citation, Man O'War, his son War Admiral, Cigar, Seattle Slew, and Winx of Australia. Secretariat sits this one out because of his obvious advantage of having a heart twice the size of everyone else. My fantasy ending - photo finish with all horses in line, with no obvious winner or loser.
Late entry - Secretariat carrying 175 pounds.
And Citation too i would see it as 1. Ruffian 2. Citation 3. Zenyatta
Ruffian should have been first. She always stay in the front of the pack and won by lengths every single time.
I only recognized Seabiscuit's name, but the thing I found most interesting about this simulation was how CBS and 60 Minutes were advertised on the gate.
This is likely what the result of the Breeder's Cup Classic will be like, a heartstopper.
this should be a 5 way race between RA, Z, ruffian, Man O' War and Secretariat... those horses are the royals of the track...
So true my good griend! That is what makes SEC's TC campaign so miraculous. In EVERY race he accomplished a supernatural feat! In the Derby, he accelerated from START to FINISH, running each qtr mile faster than the previous incl. an unheard of 23 second final qtr. The "move" from last to 1st on the steepest turn on a North Amer. track "3-wide" in the Preakness left veteran analysts SPEECHLESS & the Belmont...well...I think NOBODY needs to elaborate on that one..it speaks for itself!!!
might need to change the title. Any simulated race of the "best" has to include the two greatest horses of all time; Secretariat and Man O' War
I loved Ruffian too but keep in mind she never let another MARE or FILLY pass her...NEVER RACING AGAINST A COLT until the Match race against Foolish Pleasure. While we will never know how that Match race would have unfolded, firmly believe it wouldahve been an incredible battle straight to the wire!
Now, a race between those two would be interesting.
This game is unrealistic, 1 Ruffian was almost never whipped and two she had a lot of stamina and speed.
You're comments are rational & I agree it's silly to be strident. And Sec would have beaten any/all of them.
@RuffianQueenOfRacing interesting thought... i dont quite inderstand it though... explane?
Where's secretariat?
@DBJKAJ I honestly can't speak for the crop of fillies she raced against but you can't argue track times which she equaled or set records everytime out and all but 1 still stand today, and she did that while being held back most of the time. She would have ran away from Foolish Pleasure down the stretch.
Con't: Lets place SEC's TC accomplishment in perspective. Sea Bird II (who was unquestionably awesome & considered by many as the finest of all European horses) ran 8 races in 2 years & it took Frankel 3 years to run 14 races as well as not exceeding 8 furlongs until he was 4+ years-old? Yet in the span of 5 weeks, SEC posted 3 WORLD-CLASS performances that have NEVER been matched by any North Amer. 3-year old! FYI, I likewise think Nijnsky, Shergar & Sea The Stars were amazing horses!
Ruffian set the standard for Zenyatta and Ruffian was the first queen. You don't know anything about Ruffian because she is far far better than Zenyatta.
I see no Secretariat or Man O'War. Here's how Zenyatta "measures up" (using that term losely) against Secretariat:
On dirt, 1-1/4 mile: Zenyatta (BreedersCup) - 2.02.28; Secretariat (KentuckyDerby) - 1.59.40
On dirt, 1-1/8 mile: Zenyatta (AppleBlossom) - 1.50.71; Secretariat (MarlboroCup) - 1.45.40
But that wouldn't make for a very interesting race.
Just taking this field into consideration and not discussing the host of other racehorses that were omitted from the field, how do you consider this a true simulation when Ruffian was never headed at any fraction in any of her past performances? It's one thing to be an undefeated horse, which is a GREAT accomplishment, but to never be headed? Ruffian has "All Ones" in her past performances.
Yes, Zenyatta was a super horse. She would have won her last race if she had started her backstretch run about a second sooner. Jockey's fault? Probably not. I think Z controlled her own destiny, and only made one little mistake. But, you have to list the other great horse, Secretariat. He won by about 33 lengths. You got to give the 2 other horses credit for showing up (at the Belmont). Besides speed, both these horses had huge personalities.
Rachael is the best filly I have ever seen. Not sure if she would have been a better mare than zenyatta but wow was she good. That oaks day was one of the best races I have ever seen.
nothing against Queen Z but Ruffian would not give up like that. Neither would Seabiscuit.
Well i love every horses in this sim.. But sim never could do any justice on real race, because it left one major point, the horse spirit during the race..
Interesting; but I'd like to know the science they used behind this as well as the process they used for selecting the horses and what physics they used in the simulation for chosing who won.
You left Secretariat out,but im sorry zen wouldve never beaten ruffian .
Dr Fagar? Man O’ War? American Pharaoh?
@FloridaVermont With respect to track records, you are making an erroneous assumption: that all tracks have identical variants. The intrinsic speed of a track is not set in stone and is influenced by weather, track maintenance, and other variables. Furthermore, there are technological advances. Next, all horses have subpar performances and we can't safely assume a horse ran its best each time it runs in a highly visible race. It's pure folly to compare horses across generations.
Interesting simulation. Ruffian always came out of the gate blazing and led for the entire duration for all of her races, but how would she respond to the onslaught of Zen in the final stretch? Ruffian proved in the CCA Oaks she had the stamina to last 1.5mi with energy to spare; I really can't see her letting everyone pass by her so easily at the end. I wonder what stats this program uses to create the simulation, only times, or does it take handicaps, track surfaces, etc. into consideration? Many rules have changed over the time frame of all these horses' respective primes.
I suspect the main consideration was "how popular is Zenyatta?," because I seriously doubt this would have been the finish in a real-life race.
Consider some of the horses left out of "the best"--Secretariat, Man o' War, Dr. Fager.
I love Zenyatta, I really do, and I watch her win videos regularly, but I just can't go along with this simulation.
qhsperson I think the point was just to get a bunch of great horses from the past and see how they fare against each other. If they did want the top horses of all time they missed, because I don't know of anyone who doesn't have Secretariat and Man o War in their top 5.
As for the actual simulation, I could see it holding up up on turf. If it were on dirt I see it playing out very much like her 2010 Breeder's Cup Classic. Yeah she would make a push, but the reason she was SO far back in that race is because the pace was set higher than most she had been in. Ruffian would likely put her in a similar position, I don't know if Z could catch up or not. On turf I'd say yes, on dirt, she probably comes up just short.
@FloridaVermont I would submit that Zenyatta's 111 BSF in the 2010 Breeder's Cup Classic was not her best performance (and not simply because of her lackluster start). Zenyatta routinely ran near track records when running on synthetics in CA back in 2008 (her 4 year old campaign, which was probably her best). In the 2008 Clement Hirsch she set a track record going 8.5F in 1:41:48. That is the best time in four complete seasons of racing over that well-traveled distance.
WHERE IS SECRETARIAT !!!??
why isnt Sec in this race?
You notice they didn't include secretariat. Why is that? or Phar Lap? Two of the greatest horses in history...
Secretariat wasn't included only because his time at the distance was much quicker than the others. It wouldn't have been as good of a race for the others if he had run away and taken the lead by many lengths. It's more to see how they would do.
I think the simulation should be which of those horses doesn't beat Zenyatta. I see at least 2 triple crown winners in Citation and Affirmed.
You under-estimate Barbaro. Injury stopped his career.
I get the whole filly bias but if you really want to see what would happen ... You gotta add (to Zenyatta, Rachel Alexandra, and Ruffian) Personal Ensign, Lady's Secret, Genuine Risk, Winning Colors, Rags To Riches, Ta Wee, Twighlight Tear, Winx, Black Caviar, Cicada, Princess Rooney, Desert Vixen, Terlingua, Devona Dale, Have De Gras, Eight Belles, Miesque,...Can't forget Imp, Mother Goose, Acorn, Bewitched...should I keep going? I'd be amiss if I didn't include Go For Wand (no telling how good she actually was, she was a freak of nature...)
If you haven't heard of any of these racing ladies, Queens of the Turf...may I suggest you look them up?
Well a lot of these mares would not find it a fair race for them. Some horses are turf, some synthetic is their best, and some prefer dirt. Usually horses stay within their best track. That was what hurt Zenyatta in her last race. She raced almost exclusively on synthetic which does not kick up as much as dirt track does. Because she breaks last she took a stinging spray of dirt she had never experienced. She almost quit running. That is why Mike has to let her lag back and pull herself together.
She would, Zenyatta is good i admit it but look back at her race times has she beaten any of Ruffians records, I don't think so.
@RuffianQueenOfRacing You do realise. My father bred him in england and brought him back to Aus. His first 5 races were there.
Sadly we will never really know what Ruffian would have became. Zenyatta and Ruffian are the 2 greatest fillies ever. We all know that either could not run with Secretariat's best. Any other horse couldn't either. Just enjoy the simulation for what it is. Fun!
where is secretariat !!!!!!! he wouldwin them even in real life!!!!!!
where's secretariat
The real race would be Zenyatta, Ruffian, Secretariat, and Man O' War. What a race that would be...
Where's Secretariat?? Where's Seattle Slew??
This is awesome. i really like the simulation of this video. this is a very interesting video..