"Actions determined by dice rolls like assassinations are pre-determined at the beginning of a turn." Just FYI this isn't true, it's pre-determined at the beginning of an action. I.E: if you try to assassinate someone with a spy and fail, then reload to just before that attempt and do it again, then yes you will always get the same result. But if you first grab another army or agent and have them make a move somewhere on the campaign map and *then* re-try the assassination, it'll make a new dice roll, even if it's on the same turn. And as far as I know, that's the way it's always worked in pretty much every other Total War game as well
The Myceneans did have writing, Linear B. it was used to carry diplomatic messages and quite a bit of it has been presserved, including letters talking about a troublemaker called Piyamaradu who was undermining hittite influence in western Anatolia. Linear B dissappeared entirely after the Bronze age collapse, but that was about 200 years after the trojan wars are supposed to have taken place
What excites me most, is to see how much of the good elements from Troy get into Warhammer 3, which is the purpose of the Saga series, to test mechanics for future titles. Since this is made is the Warhammer engine, it sets the groundwork for the excellent new maps to make their way into warhammer 3.
the best upgrade in troy is the engine over warcraft 2, CPU use us much much better. trading is better. but in general im not keen on it, not a fan of hero's like this in a historic game and the UI is just sad and feels gimped. shogun 2 for me was the most balanced game, still love the art style, graphics & gameplay. warcraft 2 is super fun to play. so can only hope warcraft 3 is good.
True but I hope they only take the maps and visuals from this experiment. Since combat in Troy sucks ass. I also like the resources. But uff that combat in this game.
I love how "a George game" has come to mean "pseudo-edutainment exploring the cognitive evolution of human beings" (This, Ancestors, and perhaps to a certain extent Death Stranding)
@@sancturillore Games that have you deep diving into Wikipedia articles that gradually become _seemingly_ less relevant as you dive. Eventually this leads you to postulate on human experience and then you suddenly find yourself applying your newly found position into the game that started it all. You know, typical history buff stuff.
George, you consistently impress me with the insights you communicate with your videos. You make it seem absolutely effortless to blend an honest, insightful review of a video game with concepts like the bicameral mind hypothesis. This was the first time I heard of it and I can't wait to read up on it, and that's why I'm writing my first youtube comment today to tell you that you produce absolutely outstanding content, one of kind in my opinion and I love it and appreciate your work a lot.
The way you transformed this review from talking of mechanichs to then transform it on theories about mythology and different points of view that exist (transforming our pereceptions of it) is just amazing. Not only it makes an irrefutable argument for the usefulness of videogames and its place in media but also is a masterful piece of criticism. Not only videogames are art, George, YOU are a piece of art. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
"I'm also still waiting for someone to make a rock opera out of Illiad" - have you heard the 15 minute long song "And then there was silence" by Blind Guardian?
Blind Guardian is basically a one-band rock opera of everything that is awesome. Nightfall in Middle-Earth is basically a rock-opera of the Simarillion.
That's how big publishers think these days, isn't it? 80+ is okay, anything below they could just as well not have bothered to make, because it's a complete failure.
@@rolfs2165 yeah I think the famous example is New Vegas where if they got an 85 score they would have got a bonus or something but they only got 84. Also I guess a 7 is a complete failure because sites like IGN give mediocre games 8 so a 7 must be dreadful.
@@MyMP5K Rome 2 had a terrible launch but was eventually fixed over the years through updates. Other than that, Thrones of Britannia is probably the only generally negatively received one
@@Kuddochan Yeah based upon what I looked up, Thrones of Brianna seems to be the one the community dislikes/ignores. The other weaker total wars games at least have their own niche or cult following .
Then came the feminists, they tell us these are the result of patriarchy and imperialism. Don't know about using the word evolved after that...🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
To note, we are looking at a now nearing 50 year old theory largely based on archaeological, psychological, biological/neurological evidences of the late-70's. It's been somewhat updated, but there is a room for a lot scepticism, especially with the more knowledge gained in the various fields above.
Evolutionary phycology is pretty likely correct if not all that useful, the idea that human beings developed phycological traits that helped them survive in times past just like they did with physical traits is pretty logical.
I found a similarly interesting relationship between fantasy and fact in AC Odyssey If you go to a deep cave it's referred to as "entrance to the underworld", or you find an abandoned hut with some chickens and it's called "Alektryon's rest", because anyone who saw those places would just assume thats what they are from the myths that they fully believe to be true, and that since you're travelling with Herodotus and this concept of "history" suddenly exists, you're basically playing as the last demigod Greek Hero at the end of the pre-truth era
This was truly an awesome review. Did not expect you to go into the depth you did, and the whole bicameral mind hypothesis is so incredibly interesting. I’ll probably be doing some amateur research on all that stuff out of curiosity now. Well done man
I'm somewhat of a hardcore Total War player. The type that only plays on Hard or Higher on a self imposed Ironman. So, it was pretty interesting to see a more outsider perspective on Troy. A game I wasn't exactly hyped for but did end up enjoying quite a bit anyway. Probably not as much as Three Kingdom or Warhammer, but way more than I expected. In particular, I find your observations about the somewhat outdated and clunky nature really intriguing. I recently got into playing Panzer Corps 2 (Which I REALLY recommend) in a big way, and I do think part of the reason why that game plays as well as it does is because of the rewind button. So, I would not mind if it becomes a feature in a future Total War game. I also found your observations on the weird "Truth behind the myth" theme the game got going to be really interesting. At first I honestly wasn't that fond of it, and would have rather had a Age of Mythology esque game with actual Warhammer style monsters in it. But I do think it is a somewhat interesting, if a bit silly, take on the entire conflict. And Ii there is one thing I can praise the game for it's that it did the thing all good adaptions should do; It got me interested in the source material. Not just the Iliad and the surrounding legends, but also a lot of the real history about the Bronze Age. Especially the Bronze Age collapse, and the possible connection that might or might not have to the collapse of the real Troy. It even got me interested in writing my own adaption of the Trojan war. On a final note, I am curious if you have played Rome 2 recently. Because while the game was a absolute disaster on launch. It has really managed to turn around since then and I do think it's worth playing, especially if you like the time period. Then again, i'm the kind of person that likes Thrones of Britannia. So you might want to take my opinion with a grain of salt.
Host is complains of multiple problems with Troy despite most problems being with himself that isn't even a problem with the game at all. Combat warnings are fine. The leveling system for heroes and agents are a huge pro. And treated in this review as if a con. Really wtf? This game needs a bit of touching up. Heroes need reduced defense. Probably shouldn't be able to destroy siege gates. Chariots are just absurd. But overall, Troy is excellence. If there was only one choice to play, I'd go Troy over any TW any day. Including over 3K and WH. Especially when you really get an understanding of the combat design of this game. For anybody thinking about getting into Total War or experienced users who like the series, Troy is super worth getting. Troy is Total War at its best. And will hopefully be a foundation of a new era for TW of the future.
@@shatteredknight1129 Personally, I find Troy to be Total War at its most tedious and arguably at its worst when it comes to ai balancing. Without a doubt there are some great mechanics in it that I hope future games adopt(like more diplomacy options and finite resources), but the way its balanced and has these systems interact with each other just makes it too tedious for me to enjoy for more than an hour or two. The increased focus on alliances is great on paper, but it gets ruined by the fact that ai are unable to recognize faction alliances not directly tied to them, which leads into situations where your allies are constantly declaring war on each other and YOU get all the diplomacy penalties despite having zero control over it. In a game where diplomacy and alliances are suppose to play such a huge role, the fact that you have no way of preventing war between your allies and will still get punished for it for when said wars break out just makes the system a frustrating mess to deal with. Likewise, having units be more expensive to upkeep in order to encourage trading also sounds like a good idea on paper but gets ruined by the way CA went about it. Instead of just doing the sensible thing and raising unit upkeep across the board, they decided to make supplyline penalities(a mechanic that only effects the player) 12 times as harsh as in Warhammer. So while the ai can walk around with multiple 14 stack armies just fine, you can't hire a single extra hero without nuking your entire food economy. Like its still completely doable to beat the ai, but the amount of artifical advantages the ai are given even on normal difficulty just takes all the fun and immersion out of it for me. It's playing a fighting game but you're forced to give yourself a 50% handicap for every match against the ai. While it can fun in the same way beating Dark Souls on a Guitar Hero controller can be fun, to me I prefer playing games on as much of an even playing field and ruleset as my opponents than having my self be handicapped just because the ai is dumb.
@@trevordavis6830 Everything you said is incorrect about how the game works. Not knowing how to play doesn't mean it's a problem with the game. If you don't know how to do something, then why not just ask or try to find out? Rather than claim it's a flaw in the game.
@@shatteredknight1129 But, that is literally how it works. The AI literally does not care who you are allied with. Within 3 turns I got like 5 separate "your ally has declared war on your ally", and no matter what I picked my diplomacy score still got dropped down from 0 to -76. The supplylines penalty in Troy is 24% even on normal difficulty, which makes it not only 12 times as harsh as Warhammer 2's normal 2% penalty, but also 60% more harsh than Warhammer 2's hard/legendary 15% penalty. I know how the mechanics work, and the way they work goes counter to immersive gameplay in favor for more arcadey and "difficult" gameplay. If you prefer the ai be given tons of artifical advantages over the player in order to make up for their stupidity, great, good for you. But for me, I honestly prefer the ai be stupid and easy to beat on normal over having the ai be given so many advantages over the player even on normal just for the sake of making them a somewhat of a challenge to fight.
@@trevordavis6830 I think strategy games on single player, instead of trying to pretend that the AI plays by the same rules (but cheating), should double down on asymmetry. Just like X-Com, the AI can play by their own rules unique to them, while you get to play by the rules unique to you, with some crossover. That way, a lot of balancing AI problems (aka making the AI understand the game its playing while resolving turns in less than an hour) goes out the window while the designers get the opportunity to craft unique mechanics that both challenge and immerse a player. The challenge is to not make it feel scripted but open-ended like strategy usually is, but that's perfectly doable.
If you want a taste of what a Troy rock opera would sound like, look for Blind Guardian’s And Then There Was Silence. Close your eyes and listen. It’s epic.
Mandalore reviews a Total War game, you get a 1 and a half hour description of every faction and their unique mechanics with a few jokes thrown in. When Bunnyhop reviews a Total War game, you get a dissertation on the bicameral mind hypothesis.
Super Bunnyhop always tries to wrap the game in a topic not related to games. To be fair, many games have important themes that a proper review would address. However, Bunnyhop is doing more than his due diligence for the games he covers. It's as if the video is not really about the game itself, but instead whatever pet subject he's interested in at the moment. Regardless of topic, George really only covers it in a relatively short, easily digestible format that makes the watcher think they've learned something, when in fact they've learned nothing at all. His channel is just NPR for video games. That is not a complement.
"Attila! Great!" Ah if only that were the case, despite the good reviews it's a largely unpopular title among the community. It's fuckin awesome though, and probably my favorite historical title so far, and now you can get the dope Midieval kingdoms 1212 mod
You know my biggest problem isn't actually with Atilla itself, more that I've never played another Total War game that actually felt like a follow up to Medieval 2 - I god damn love that game but it always feels like everything is weird and way, WAY different in the newer Total War games so I just don't bother with them.
They actually resolved the UI and readability problem with Rome II. There the unit cards and building icons were incredibly clear, simple and quite beautiful. Britannia also used the same system (of using artwork that echoes the artwork of the time) but for some reason they moved away from that UI policy with Three Kingdoms and doubled down on it here. As a long time Total War fan, i cannot put into words how disappointing it is that they did not choose to represent units on their cards with amphora like illustrations. I also think the strange colour scheme both for the UI and the map/battle graphics itself (which appear more washed out than ever before) was a mistake.
Dan Carlin has a great point in an episode about Olympias, he says imagine a world where Magic just *exists*. And it isn't questioned. You reflected that idea really well
I'm not a huge fan of this "bicameral mind" business. It strikes me as an absolutely arrogant "we know better" sort of propaganda of its own. These people that put it forth seem simply unable to think that the ancient world was, I don't know, *ancient*! They can't comprehend that maybe just culture was different and adapted to the surroundings as opposed to mass psychosis. Not to mention, people didn't have the same knowledge or access to vast stores of information that we do today. It all seems very le big brain fedora-tippy.
But isn't it also "fedora-tippy" as you say to wholly dismiss these kinds of proposals in lieu of some static universal notion of consciousness to dismiss even the possibility of change or variation, negative or positive
@@anamaaes9218 No, it's not, because I believe in judging people based on their circumstances and not what my oh-so-enlightened mind thinks based on its own. Have you even read ancient material? They seem quite cognizant to me, but I've actually given ancient people a post-mortem chance as opposed to arrogantly assuming that my level of consciousness is far greater than theirs could ever hope to be. Did you know folks like Plato and Dante can still teach us valuable lessons today? No? You can probably thank modern thought and hypotheses like the Bicameral Mind for that. I for one will not be doomed to repeat history by not studying it and ancient thought. If you want to just dismiss other human beings as fundamentally different or, dare I say, inferior, then that's YOUR issue.
I tend to assume people of the past thought the same as we do, they just had less information to form correct interpretations about the world. Maybe not though what do I know.
About Troyan war, I might misheard you. but you quoted about that this city might be destryoed by earthquake. So yes, there was earthquake, but then city rebuilded, and this Troy VII was destroyed by some kind of conflict, there's evidence of not buried people, arrows, slingshots and etc. Also there's some mentions in hittite sources about city Wilusa, which probably was city of Troy, also there's mentions of king whose name was Alaksandu and name of Paris in Iliad was Alexander, and there's a lot of this stuff in Hittite sources. But still, you're right we will never know what really happened back then, since we don't have more sources, just parts of it. Also great video, thank you!
If you want to see an adaptation of the Iliad myth fully seen through the archeological material of that era, may I suggest the graphic novel Age Of Bronze? It's legit what I hoped this game would look like, and I'm sad to say it only does so a little bit. The Bronze Age world as seen in Age Of Bronze is so unique and visually interesting.
I loved naval battles in Rome 2 when flushed out they seemed fucking awesome especially in campaign having a moving fleet blow open the walls or gates for you cause you didn’t wanna limit your land armies mobility with arty units you can bring in navy. When you become good with the naval battles it’s so fucking fun the ramming setting enemy ships on fire and boarding actions were awesome with the different factions marines and I loved doing port assaults with my 5-8 unit assault ships on unfortified towns behind enemy line forcing them to weaken their front line against my actual armies by withdrawing them to home. A lot you can do with the navy they are ignoring... no doubt. Rome Two if you knew what to do and didn’t just expect clicking and winning with a navy then it was fun tactically for anyone who allows themselves to use pause button makes it even more enjoyable! Anyone who didn’t like naval battles probably just expect to click and win with their navy.. they are ships and need to be told to reverse and go forward by their commander spamming attack will only confuse the ai in a group attack formation with all the moving enemy ships bound to cluster fuck you if you depended on click to win like most Rome players who complained about naval. I agree with you 100% there definitely were people that liked the naval battles and why not put it in TROY?? The fuck? It’s all Greco trireme and ships anyways why not add the mymidon marines or whatever odysseus’ marines Troy failed on this one...
i personally loved the massively overpower onager ships. i was getting wrecked by gauls in massively distructive naval battles, until i learned you could manually fire the onager ship WAY fast, more accurately and more powerfully than the AI.
Wow man, a really thoughtful and let me say it, one of the best reviews of the game out there. I am a scholar of the Roman Kingdom, Republic and Empire and I really had no idea of the bicameral mind hypothesis of Ancient Greece. I will definitely check out more about this hypothesis. Also I will definitely buy the game now. You sir have earned a new subscriber.
The bit about Bicameral Mind Hypothesis was really interesting and after double checking lead would easily explain the symptoms as well as why it would have been so prevalent back then. It's common and easily found thus people have always found various uses for it. Three of the many side effects of lead exposure is mood disorders, concentration, and memory issues. Interesting bit thanks for including it.
The "undo" in shadows of valentina was definitely a good implementation of the concept. It gives you flexibility but you still need to ration it. And you actually have to account for visiting shrines to restore your undos. The newest game did not balance the concept imo but I'm not opposed to seeing it continue in the future.
I got it for free and wanted to say “even gifted it's still too expensive!“. But it was actualy quite alright. I liked the economy and also the mythical units. I think, as a concept, they are a pretty cool idea and compromise between myth and what could have been! Bottom line, it's kinda clear that this was more of an Alpha test for new mechanics to use in proper future TW titles
@@remembertotakeshowerspleas355 No, i already had the epic games store installed anyway and for the first 24h after launch, you could have gotten it for free there
I always love how Creative Assembly puts soooo much effort into unit details and animations, and I NEVER zoom in to watch...because...you know...I'm playing the game.
Absolutely amazing video. Even though I love the Illiad and the Oddysey I wasnt too keen on playing this game. Now this video got has convinced me to both read Rage of Achilles as well as play the new Troy game.
The moment when the sponsor link is the only one not clickable in video description, that second half about bicameral mind was really interesting, seems like the game itself is decent, also if I hadn't seen the total war saga, I would've wondered wtf you were talking about 'seggat, sogga' :P dunno if it was on purpose or not, great review!
@@daevious_ Super soldier heroes who can take out 4 whole units that aren't complete trash or starting tier....I'm not calling that a historical title.
@@Darek_B52 I've never understood that argument, because outside of Empire/Napoleon/Shogun 2, Commander units have always been stronger than regular units by a significant degree. In my eyes, the difference between a single hero units, and a commander cavalry unit is entirely down to aesthetic preference. Not liking how commanders have become singular units is fair, but rejecting those games as historical titles because of that is where your lose me.
@@daevious_ No in Rome 1 (I've put too many hours into that) you charge a commander unit into even half decent infantry and he get's stuck...good luck getting him out (though you can mess with the game a bit so it's his troops making contact first and then him) but when it's just one guy plowing through it's just a loss of "suspension of disbelief" Not saying it's bad I'm just saying that outside of the "magical" Romance of the Three kingdoms or Troy I don't want to see something like this should Empire 3 ever come out (or Rome 3, Shogun 3 etc)
Three kingdoms is based on two texts that depicted three kingdom era. One is the fiction story “Romance of the three kingdoms”，and another is the historical record book titled “ Records of the three kingdoms” FYI the Koei Tecmo game “Romance of the three kingdoms” is actually called “Records of the three kingdoms” in its original Japanese title
Wow, never thought to get hooked by something like the bicameral mind hypothesis. I just watched a great review by George, as always, just to get the feeling i was watching the x-files when he talked about this phenomenon. Cool stuff!
Hmm, I strongly disagree with you about rewinding, that completely killed my interest in fire emblem and caused me to drop the series since it felt like it took all the weight out of my decision making. I think a better approach is the XCOM style of giving the player many ways of making a comeback after a failed mission to encourage people to play through their mistakes and making an epic comeback from a disadvantaged position instead of just deleting mistakes from the timeline.
Great video! Have you read Dan Simmons' _Ilium/Olympos_ series? It's a bizarre literary science fiction series that blends far future post-singularity mumbo-jumbo with Homer's _Iliad/Odyssey_ , Shakespeare's _The Tempest_ and a sprinkle of Proust for good measure. It's not as good as his famous _Hyperion cantos_ series, in my opinion, but worth checking out if you're a fan of both sci-fi and Homer's epics.
Yes to pause, slomo, fastforward, and rewind in every videogame! There's no reason not to, twenty years past Sands of Time, ten years since Braid, and Halo 3's recording system. Maybe put processing power towards a standard for that stuff, gamercreatorfolk, instead of some pixel shader that only vfx professionals notice. I feel we need to replace those boring shell menu failstate and savestate systems with a gameplay timeline to scrub or click through.
rome 2 post 2014 became a excellent game, maybe my favorite total war campaign is its DLC empire Divided... i do concede some problems and the more arcade style differ from early total wars, but its like my third favorite total war after medieval 2 and rome 1. as for troy, such a shame...
hi George have you played the mafia series? with the soon released mafia 1 remake i'm really interested in what you think of the series especially the first one since its open world and story driven structure is really different than its competition.
I would call it "Paradigmatic dissonance", what's difference between you and the character is how they SEE the world, the paradigm, as written by Thomas Kuhn.
While I enjoyed the video (as I do all of your work), I would highly recommend that you read Bernard Williams’ “Shame and Necessity,” an excellent work of analytic philosophy from 1993 that, in my humble opinion, lucidly demolishes any claim that the Iron Age Greeks were somehow more “primitive” or “emotional” than us moderns.
A Spec Ops: The Line style Trojan War/ Odyssey game using the bicameral mind theory would be goddamn dope. I guess funnily enough the MGS series kinda fits in that concept. Like if we assume MGS2 was full simulation, or that venom snake is completely delusional in MGSV to explain away how theres all the ridiculous worm holes and such. Maybe Kojima would be a right fit for a project like that....
Anyone else notice that the "great" and "not so great" review scores are only about 5 points in the difference? Is this really the state of VG review scores?
I'm unsure which I prefer for this game: historical authenticity, pure Iliad mythology or "truth behind the myth". They're all interesting, so it would have been cool if those were campaign options. Its understandable if the approach they went with seems a bit goofy, but even if it wasn't the preferred option it is definitely the most unique.
I think I would have enjoyed the "truth behind the myth" aspect of this game more had they committed to it instead of making heroes like Achilles into magical wizards. I think the game would have been a lot cooler if they didn't give heroes healing spells and massive health bars and instead made them act more like the Kenshi unit from Shogun 1, where they're so skilled in combat that its near impossible for the average soldier to actually land a blow on them but they can still be killed instantly if they get hit by one lucky attack. I think especially for Achillies it would have really fit well the soldiers' perception of heroes being demigods while still making them feel just as mortal as everyone else.
@@trevordavis6830 I agree. They could have made them "Heroic" without needing to make them superhuman. If the soldiers *believe* that they are favoured by the gods like in that extract about Odysseus, they would be massively inspired by their presence to an extreme degree, and likewise demoralising the enemy. I guess they gave them the Three Kingdoms treatment to encourage players to use them in duels.
Wasn't expecting a bicameral mind reference, but here we are. Very interesting when taken as a piece of speculative evolution, if not a rigorous scientific theory.
Saggat Roy is my fave Street Fighter character.
I'm really glad I'm it the only who kept hearing Sagat Roy.
Why does he say saga that way?? Why won’t he stop???
Sa GaAH
Tiger knee
@@DetectiveOlivaw He has a history of mispronunciation, almost every video has one word mispronounced.
SBH: "videogamevideogamevideogame"
Me: "Uh huh, uh huh"
SBH: *SUDDEN BICAMERAL MIND*
Me: "And theeere it is"
To those who are confused on whether George is a step above every other game journalist/reviewer out there or if he's slowly losing his mind: yes.
@hi there dude went coast to coast on a fucking bycicle.
Admirable but also insane.
I'm still not sure if he's pronouncing "saga" that way on purpose.
Totalwar Sagatroy
s’Guhtroy
sigahtroi
Sega Tree
Bunnyhop has few interesting pronunciations. One of my favorite is Sid Meer and Verdoon for Sid Meier and verdun
1:30
After 'comparishon' there is now 'sahgah'
Online bullies start your engines
It took a little for me to understand that he isn't saying sahgatroy but Saga Troy.
Don't forget "nuculer"
Yuri pie-less.
...or "john-ra".
don't forget cackaphony
"Actions determined by dice rolls like assassinations are pre-determined at the beginning of a turn." Just FYI this isn't true, it's pre-determined at the beginning of an action. I.E: if you try to assassinate someone with a spy and fail, then reload to just before that attempt and do it again, then yes you will always get the same result. But if you first grab another army or agent and have them make a move somewhere on the campaign map and *then* re-try the assassination, it'll make a new dice roll, even if it's on the same turn. And as far as I know, that's the way it's always worked in pretty much every other Total War game as well
Because of the way computers work, that's how it is with most games.
It works the same way in X COM.
Really? I don't know about harder difficulty, but I think it works like that on mine as far as I remember.
There has been the option to lock rolls before, but I believe you could choose to enable it. Is it now on by default?
The Myceneans did have writing, Linear B. it was used to carry diplomatic messages and quite a bit of it has been presserved, including letters talking about a troublemaker called Piyamaradu who was undermining hittite influence in western Anatolia. Linear B dissappeared entirely after the Bronze age collapse, but that was about 200 years after the trojan wars are supposed to have taken place
What excites me most, is to see how much of the good elements from Troy get into Warhammer 3, which is the purpose of the Saga series, to test mechanics for future titles. Since this is made is the Warhammer engine, it sets the groundwork for the excellent new maps to make their way into warhammer 3.
I mean... at this point we know the Dev's favourite child is... it's the adopted one they had to rescue from GW.
the best upgrade in troy is the engine over warcraft 2, CPU use us much much better.
trading is better.
but in general im not keen on it, not a fan of hero's like this in a historic game and the UI is just sad and feels gimped.
shogun 2 for me was the most balanced game, still love the art style, graphics & gameplay.
warcraft 2 is super fun to play.
so can only hope warcraft 3 is good.
True but I hope they only take the maps and visuals from this experiment. Since combat in Troy sucks ass. I also like the resources. But uff that combat in this game.
@@liaminwales The Trojan War is mythology not history.
@@CarrotConsumer Tell that to CA who marketed this game as "The TRUTH Behind The Myth".
Sah-Gah
That bicameral mind theory seems like the kind of shit my weed dealer would tell me when I can't get him to leave
If you listen closely you can hear Georges wife and children upstairs yelling at him:
"Dad turn off the history channel for christs sake!"
A total war suhGahh troy
THANK YOU!
He's pronouncing it like the Romancing SaGa games for some bloody reason. (they've always been released as Sa・Ga, indicating its not the English word)
Ah, I just love George's pronunciation quirks
@@lunarbeing4982 comparishun
I love how "a George game" has come to mean "pseudo-edutainment exploring the cognitive evolution of human beings" (This, Ancestors, and perhaps to a certain extent Death Stranding)
Or a good stealth game
@@leetorry A good stealth game is all about messing about with the AI, while laughing at your superiority.
@@leetorry it's a campy stealth action tactical multiplayer VR game that casually quotes from the Illiad
Wait, what's a "George game"?
@@sancturillore Games that have you deep diving into Wikipedia articles that gradually become _seemingly_ less relevant as you dive. Eventually this leads you to postulate on human experience and then you suddenly find yourself applying your newly found position into the game that started it all.
You know, typical history buff stuff.
George, you consistently impress me with the insights you communicate with your videos. You make it seem absolutely effortless to blend an honest, insightful review of a video game with concepts like the bicameral mind hypothesis. This was the first time I heard of it and I can't wait to read up on it, and that's why I'm writing my first youtube comment today to tell you that you produce absolutely outstanding content, one of kind in my opinion and I love it and appreciate your work a lot.
It's bs unfortunately
The way you transformed this review from talking of mechanichs to then transform it on theories about mythology and different points of view that exist (transforming our pereceptions of it) is just amazing. Not only it makes an irrefutable argument for the usefulness of videogames and its place in media but also is a masterful piece of criticism.
Not only videogames are art, George, YOU are a piece of art.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Gonna miss George talking about how much he’s looking forward to “Total Roy Troy”
This entire video is just an excuse to say "sa gatroy" over and over (which as far as I know means nothing but presumably sounds funny)
"I'm also still waiting for someone to make a rock opera out of Illiad" - have you heard the 15 minute long song "And then there was silence" by Blind Guardian?
same but achilles last stand by led zeppelin
Blind Guardian is basically a one-band rock opera of everything that is awesome.
Nightfall in Middle-Earth is basically a rock-opera of the Simarillion.
@@rafaelneumann8365 Indeed. I love them!
Hell yes
20:15 "I'm also still waiting for someone to make a rock opera movie out of the Iliad." OMG I NOW WANT THAT SO BAD!
Was I supposed to be looking at the user score cause I was thrown off by 80 being great and 75 being not so great lol
That's what I was thinking too lol. Has there ever been a total war game that was a total flop (after patches and dlc)?
That's how big publishers think these days, isn't it? 80+ is okay, anything below they could just as well not have bothered to make, because it's a complete failure.
@@rolfs2165 yeah I think the famous example is New Vegas where if they got an 85 score they would have got a bonus or something but they only got 84. Also I guess a 7 is a complete failure because sites like IGN give mediocre games 8 so a 7 must be dreadful.
@@MyMP5K Rome 2 had a terrible launch but was eventually fixed over the years through updates. Other than that, Thrones of Britannia is probably the only generally negatively received one
@@Kuddochan Yeah based upon what I looked up, Thrones of Brianna seems to be the one the community dislikes/ignores. The other weaker total wars games at least have their own niche or cult following .
“Monkeys evolved hentai, and then they evolved Total War Saga: Troy.” - Mahatma Gandhi, on the Canadian scarf industry
Too true
Then came the feminists, they tell us these are the result of patriarchy and imperialism. Don't know about using the word evolved after that...🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
Bicameralism is a fascinating concept, however I can't say I'm convinced of it as fact. Still, I'm gonna check out that book you mentioned.
To note, we are looking at a now nearing 50 year old theory largely based on archaeological, psychological, biological/neurological evidences of the late-70's. It's been somewhat updated, but there is a room for a lot scepticism, especially with the more knowledge gained in the various fields above.
I've never bought evolutionary psychology much. David Graeber and David Wengrow do good work on early human social organization though.
Evolutionary phycology is pretty likely correct if not all that useful, the idea that human beings developed phycological traits that helped them survive in times past just like they did with physical traits is pretty logical.
How was the book :)
I found a similarly interesting relationship between fantasy and fact in AC Odyssey
If you go to a deep cave it's referred to as "entrance to the underworld", or you find an abandoned hut with some chickens and it's called "Alektryon's rest", because anyone who saw those places would just assume thats what they are from the myths that they fully believe to be true, and that since you're travelling with Herodotus and this concept of "history" suddenly exists, you're basically playing as the last demigod Greek Hero at the end of the pre-truth era
That's the stuff that made me love Screed Origins, too, and it's departure from the older screed games' more historic style.
This was truly an awesome review. Did not expect you to go into the depth you did, and the whole bicameral mind hypothesis is so incredibly interesting. I’ll probably be doing some amateur research on all that stuff out of curiosity now. Well done man
I'm somewhat of a hardcore Total War player. The type that only plays on Hard or Higher on a self imposed Ironman. So, it was pretty interesting to see a more outsider perspective on Troy. A game I wasn't exactly hyped for but did end up enjoying quite a bit anyway. Probably not as much as Three Kingdom or Warhammer, but way more than I expected. In particular, I find your observations about the somewhat outdated and clunky nature really intriguing. I recently got into playing Panzer Corps 2 (Which I REALLY recommend) in a big way, and I do think part of the reason why that game plays as well as it does is because of the rewind button. So, I would not mind if it becomes a feature in a future Total War game.
I also found your observations on the weird "Truth behind the myth" theme the game got going to be really interesting. At first I honestly wasn't that fond of it, and would have rather had a Age of Mythology esque game with actual Warhammer style monsters in it. But I do think it is a somewhat interesting, if a bit silly, take on the entire conflict. And Ii there is one thing I can praise the game for it's that it did the thing all good adaptions should do; It got me interested in the source material. Not just the Iliad and the surrounding legends, but also a lot of the real history about the Bronze Age. Especially the Bronze Age collapse, and the possible connection that might or might not have to the collapse of the real Troy. It even got me interested in writing my own adaption of the Trojan war.
On a final note, I am curious if you have played Rome 2 recently. Because while the game was a absolute disaster on launch. It has really managed to turn around since then and I do think it's worth playing, especially if you like the time period. Then again, i'm the kind of person that likes Thrones of Britannia. So you might want to take my opinion with a grain of salt.
Host is complains of multiple problems with Troy despite most problems being with himself that isn't even a problem with the game at all. Combat warnings are fine. The leveling system for heroes and agents are a huge pro. And treated in this review as if a con. Really wtf? This game needs a bit of touching up. Heroes need reduced defense. Probably shouldn't be able to destroy siege gates. Chariots are just absurd. But overall, Troy is excellence. If there was only one choice to play, I'd go Troy over any TW any day. Including over 3K and WH. Especially when you really get an understanding of the combat design of this game. For anybody thinking about getting into Total War or experienced users who like the series, Troy is super worth getting. Troy is Total War at its best. And will hopefully be a foundation of a new era for TW of the future.
@@shatteredknight1129 Personally, I find Troy to be Total War at its most tedious and arguably at its worst when it comes to ai balancing. Without a doubt there are some great mechanics in it that I hope future games adopt(like more diplomacy options and finite resources), but the way its balanced and has these systems interact with each other just makes it too tedious for me to enjoy for more than an hour or two.
The increased focus on alliances is great on paper, but it gets ruined by the fact that ai are unable to recognize faction alliances not directly tied to them, which leads into situations where your allies are constantly declaring war on each other and YOU get all the diplomacy penalties despite having zero control over it. In a game where diplomacy and alliances are suppose to play such a huge role, the fact that you have no way of preventing war between your allies and will still get punished for it for when said wars break out just makes the system a frustrating mess to deal with.
Likewise, having units be more expensive to upkeep in order to encourage trading also sounds like a good idea on paper but gets ruined by the way CA went about it. Instead of just doing the sensible thing and raising unit upkeep across the board, they decided to make supplyline penalities(a mechanic that only effects the player) 12 times as harsh as in Warhammer. So while the ai can walk around with multiple 14 stack armies just fine, you can't hire a single extra hero without nuking your entire food economy.
Like its still completely doable to beat the ai, but the amount of artifical advantages the ai are given even on normal difficulty just takes all the fun and immersion out of it for me. It's playing a fighting game but you're forced to give yourself a 50% handicap for every match against the ai. While it can fun in the same way beating Dark Souls on a Guitar Hero controller can be fun, to me I prefer playing games on as much of an even playing field and ruleset as my opponents than having my self be handicapped just because the ai is dumb.
@@trevordavis6830 Everything you said is incorrect about how the game works. Not knowing how to play doesn't mean it's a problem with the game. If you don't know how to do something, then why not just ask or try to find out? Rather than claim it's a flaw in the game.
@@shatteredknight1129 But, that is literally how it works.
The AI literally does not care who you are allied with. Within 3 turns I got like 5 separate "your ally has declared war on your ally", and no matter what I picked my diplomacy score still got dropped down from 0 to -76.
The supplylines penalty in Troy is 24% even on normal difficulty, which makes it not only 12 times as harsh as Warhammer 2's normal 2% penalty, but also 60% more harsh than Warhammer 2's hard/legendary 15% penalty.
I know how the mechanics work, and the way they work goes counter to immersive gameplay in favor for more arcadey and "difficult" gameplay. If you prefer the ai be given tons of artifical advantages over the player in order to make up for their stupidity, great, good for you. But for me, I honestly prefer the ai be stupid and easy to beat on normal over having the ai be given so many advantages over the player even on normal just for the sake of making them a somewhat of a challenge to fight.
@@trevordavis6830 I think strategy games on single player, instead of trying to pretend that the AI plays by the same rules (but cheating), should double down on asymmetry. Just like X-Com, the AI can play by their own rules unique to them, while you get to play by the rules unique to you, with some crossover. That way, a lot of balancing AI problems (aka making the AI understand the game its playing while resolving turns in less than an hour) goes out the window while the designers get the opportunity to craft unique mechanics that both challenge and immerse a player. The challenge is to not make it feel scripted but open-ended like strategy usually is, but that's perfectly doable.
The only thing I cannot comprehend is that the Athens have the Spanakopita ability but not until Themosticles takes control of the city...
“Sagah” and “sagahhtroy” are a genius George bit right? He’s committing to this because we love it right??
At least this was free on Epic Games store when it came out
so annoyed that I missed it, I think it was free for just one day or sth
The knowledge that George plays Fire Emblem makes me very happy.
If you want a taste of what a Troy rock opera would sound like, look for Blind Guardian’s And Then There Was Silence. Close your eyes and listen. It’s epic.
Mandalore reviews a Total War game, you get a 1 and a half hour description of every faction and their unique mechanics with a few jokes thrown in. When Bunnyhop reviews a Total War game, you get a dissertation on the bicameral mind hypothesis.
And both are great (you also get to see a cute skink!)
Super Bunnyhop always tries to wrap the game in a topic not related to games. To be fair, many games have important themes that a proper review would address. However, Bunnyhop is doing more than his due diligence for the games he covers. It's as if the video is not really about the game itself, but instead whatever pet subject he's interested in at the moment. Regardless of topic, George really only covers it in a relatively short, easily digestible format that makes the watcher think they've learned something, when in fact they've learned nothing at all.
His channel is just NPR for video games.
That is not a complement.
@@ammeddie2469 Well, you're entitled to your opinion. I find both channels to be entertaining in their own ways.
"Attila! Great!" Ah if only that were the case, despite the good reviews it's a largely unpopular title among the community. It's fuckin awesome though, and probably my favorite historical title so far, and now you can get the dope Midieval kingdoms 1212 mod
As one of the people who adore Attila, I agree with you. I love it for what it does, but I don't blame anyone getting pissed off at it either.
You know my biggest problem isn't actually with Atilla itself, more that I've never played another Total War game that actually felt like a follow up to Medieval 2 - I god damn love that game but it always feels like everything is weird and way, WAY different in the newer Total War games so I just don't bother with them.
Shogun 2 and Rome 2 (AFTER it was all fixed and improved by the end and total conversions) were the last Real Good pure TW Games
I love Troy and how it isn't flooded with fantasy bullshit. I am beyond sick of Warhammer. Now if we can just get Empire 2 please.
Fifteen years ago I've beat dreaming about a Total War game set up in the Bronze Age.
Not anymore.
They actually resolved the UI and readability problem with Rome II. There the unit cards and building icons were incredibly clear, simple and quite beautiful. Britannia also used the same system (of using artwork that echoes the artwork of the time) but for some reason they moved away from that UI policy with Three Kingdoms and doubled down on it here. As a long time Total War fan, i cannot put into words how disappointing it is that they did not choose to represent units on their cards with amphora like illustrations. I also think the strange colour scheme both for the UI and the map/battle graphics itself (which appear more washed out than ever before) was a mistake.
Dan Carlin has a great point in an episode about Olympias, he says imagine a world where Magic just *exists*. And it isn't questioned. You reflected that idea really well
From reviewing the video game to a history lesson and then ending with Bicameral Mind Theory.
Thanks, George
Are we mere playthings of the god?
Or do we plead divine influence to justify our foolish choices?
I'm not a huge fan of this "bicameral mind" business. It strikes me as an absolutely arrogant "we know better" sort of propaganda of its own.
These people that put it forth seem simply unable to think that the ancient world was, I don't know, *ancient*! They can't comprehend that maybe just culture was different and adapted to the surroundings as opposed to mass psychosis.
Not to mention, people didn't have the same knowledge or access to vast stores of information that we do today. It all seems very le big brain fedora-tippy.
But isn't it also "fedora-tippy" as you say to wholly dismiss these kinds of proposals in lieu of some static universal notion of consciousness to dismiss even the possibility of change or variation, negative or positive
@@anamaaes9218 No, it's not, because I believe in judging people based on their circumstances and not what my oh-so-enlightened mind thinks based on its own.
Have you even read ancient material? They seem quite cognizant to me, but I've actually given ancient people a post-mortem chance as opposed to arrogantly assuming that my level of consciousness is far greater than theirs could ever hope to be.
Did you know folks like Plato and Dante can still teach us valuable lessons today? No? You can probably thank modern thought and hypotheses like the Bicameral Mind for that. I for one will not be doomed to repeat history by not studying it and ancient thought.
If you want to just dismiss other human beings as fundamentally different or, dare I say, inferior, then that's YOUR issue.
@@ItsAGorillaStudios I understand what you are trying to say. Honestly I wasn't quite sure what you were exactly getting at in the previous comment
@@anamaaes9218 Fair enough. Sorry if I got heated there. I'm just tired of modern discourse surrounding history and its arrogance.
I tend to assume people of the past thought the same as we do, they just had less information to form correct interpretations about the world. Maybe not though what do I know.
Has he ever played Europa Universalis or Crusader Kings or anything like that?
About Troyan war, I might misheard you. but you quoted about that this city might be destryoed by earthquake. So yes, there was earthquake, but then city rebuilded, and this Troy VII was destroyed by some kind of conflict, there's evidence of not buried people, arrows, slingshots and etc. Also there's some mentions in hittite sources about city Wilusa, which probably was city of Troy, also there's mentions of king whose name was Alaksandu and name of Paris in Iliad was Alexander, and there's a lot of this stuff in Hittite sources. But still, you're right we will never know what really happened back then, since we don't have more sources, just parts of it.
Also great video, thank you!
George's unique pronunciation is endearing. He's a national treasure.
It's been quite the comparishun listening to his old stuff.
If you want to see an adaptation of the Iliad myth fully seen through the archeological material of that era, may I suggest the graphic novel Age Of Bronze? It's legit what I hoped this game would look like, and I'm sad to say it only does so a little bit. The Bronze Age world as seen in Age Of Bronze is so unique and visually interesting.
Welcome back! Glad to see a new video, sir!
Really enjoying this classics/philologic perspective on games, recently. Thanks for the work.
"no one liked naval battles anyway"
They were great in fall of the samurai, come on...
I loved naval battles in Rome 2 when flushed out they seemed fucking awesome especially in campaign having a moving fleet blow open the walls or gates for you cause you didn’t wanna limit your land armies mobility with arty units you can bring in navy. When you become good with the naval battles it’s so fucking fun the ramming setting enemy ships on fire and boarding actions were awesome with the different factions marines and I loved doing port assaults with my 5-8 unit assault ships on unfortified towns behind enemy line forcing them to weaken their front line against my actual armies by withdrawing them to home. A lot you can do with the navy they are ignoring... no doubt. Rome Two if you knew what to do and didn’t just expect clicking and winning with a navy then it was fun tactically for anyone who allows themselves to use pause button makes it even more enjoyable!
Anyone who didn’t like naval battles probably just expect to click and win with their navy.. they are ships and need to be told to reverse and go forward by their commander spamming attack will only confuse the ai in a group attack formation with all the moving enemy ships bound to cluster fuck you if you depended on click to win like most Rome players who complained about naval. I agree with you 100% there definitely were people that liked the naval battles and why not put it in TROY?? The fuck? It’s all Greco trireme and ships anyways why not add the mymidon marines or whatever odysseus’ marines Troy failed on this one...
i personally loved the massively overpower onager ships. i was getting wrecked by gauls in massively distructive naval battles, until i learned you could manually fire the onager ship WAY fast, more accurately and more powerfully than the AI.
DISCO ELYSIUM REVIEW WHEN GEORGE?!
Love seeing you post!
Wow man, a really thoughtful and let me say it, one of the best reviews of the game out there. I am a scholar of the Roman Kingdom, Republic and Empire and I really had no idea of the bicameral mind hypothesis of Ancient Greece. I will definitely check out more about this hypothesis. Also I will definitely buy the game now. You sir have earned a new subscriber.
The bit about Bicameral Mind Hypothesis was really interesting and after double checking lead would easily explain the symptoms as well as why it would have been so prevalent back then. It's common and easily found thus people have always found various uses for it. Three of the many side effects of lead exposure is mood disorders, concentration, and memory issues. Interesting bit thanks for including it.
Rewind for strategy games is genius.
Really didn’t expect a shoutout to Julian Jaynes in this vid but I’m pleasantly surprised whenever it’s mentioned
The "undo" in shadows of valentina was definitely a good implementation of the concept. It gives you flexibility but you still need to ration it. And you actually have to account for visiting shrines to restore your undos.
The newest game did not balance the concept imo but I'm not opposed to seeing it continue in the future.
I got it for free and wanted to say “even gifted it's still too expensive!“. But it was actualy quite alright. I liked the economy and also the mythical units. I think, as a concept, they are a pretty cool idea and compromise between myth and what could have been!
Bottom line, it's kinda clear that this was more of an Alpha test for new mechanics to use in proper future TW titles
How do you get it for free? Do you have to be a reviewer or is there like a beta you can ask to join?
@@remembertotakeshowerspleas355
No, i already had the epic games store installed anyway and for the first 24h after launch, you could have gotten it for free there
Reminds me of when the guys who made Candy Crush Saga sued the guys who made Banner Saga because of the word saga in the title.
I always love how Creative Assembly puts soooo much effort into unit details and animations, and I NEVER zoom in to watch...because...you know...I'm playing the game.
Absolutely amazing video. Even though I love the Illiad and the Oddysey I wasnt too keen on playing this game.
Now this video got has convinced me to both read Rage of Achilles as well as play the new Troy game.
Been waiting for you to make a video on this
The moment when the sponsor link is the only one not clickable in video description, that second half about bicameral mind was really interesting, seems like the game itself is decent, also if I hadn't seen the total war saga, I would've wondered wtf you were talking about 'seggat, sogga' :P dunno if it was on purpose or not, great review!
"...a Total War: Saggat-roy"
George, what the hell is that pronounciation?
I don't know if I'd exactly call Three Kingdoms a "historical" total war.
Three Kingdoms doesn't have rat-men unleashing the Manhattan project on Medieval knights.
Comparatively speaking, it is a historical title.
@@daevious_ Super soldier heroes who can take out 4 whole units that aren't complete trash or starting tier....I'm not calling that a historical title.
@@Darek_B52 I've never understood that argument, because outside of Empire/Napoleon/Shogun 2, Commander units have always been stronger than regular units by a significant degree.
In my eyes, the difference between a single hero units, and a commander cavalry unit is entirely down to aesthetic preference.
Not liking how commanders have become singular units is fair, but rejecting those games as historical titles because of that is where your lose me.
@@daevious_ No in Rome 1 (I've put too many hours into that) you charge a commander unit into even half decent infantry and he get's stuck...good luck getting him out (though you can mess with the game a bit so it's his troops making contact first and then him) but when it's just one guy plowing through it's just a loss of "suspension of disbelief" Not saying it's bad I'm just saying that outside of the "magical" Romance of the Three kingdoms or Troy I don't want to see something like this should Empire 3 ever come out (or Rome 3, Shogun 3 etc)
Three kingdoms is based on two texts that depicted three kingdom era. One is the fiction story “Romance of the three kingdoms”，and another is the historical record book titled “ Records of the three kingdoms” FYI the Koei Tecmo game “Romance of the three kingdoms” is actually called “Records of the three kingdoms” in its original Japanese title
AYYYY missed you! welcome back
The Bicameral Mind hypothesis is a fascinating concept. I could think of a whole list of interesting narrative Ideas based off it.
Wow, never thought to get hooked by something like the bicameral mind hypothesis. I just watched a great review by George, as always, just to get the feeling i was watching the x-files when he talked about this phenomenon. Cool stuff!
Wow! Really insightful video! Can't wait to hear Liam and Matt make fun of you for talking about it on the podcast!
The real takeaway here is that Bunnyhop has played Fire Emblem Echoes.
Good, it's my favorite game in the series and I _will_ defend the map design.
He’s back!
I see Bunnyhop, I upvote. I am simple man.
“Myths are not stories that are not true, rather they are an insight into a culture and civilizations mindset”
Hmm, I strongly disagree with you about rewinding, that completely killed my interest in fire emblem and caused me to drop the series since it felt like it took all the weight out of my decision making. I think a better approach is the XCOM style of giving the player many ways of making a comeback after a failed mission to encourage people to play through their mistakes and making an epic comeback from a disadvantaged position instead of just deleting mistakes from the timeline.
17:27 The gods have spoken! We must acquire TP for our bungholes!
"Pre-Truth Age", "Post-Truth Age"... When the heck was the "Truth Age" to begin with?
1770-1914
@@theyellowmeteor Joke answer.
Great video!
Have you read Dan Simmons' _Ilium/Olympos_ series? It's a bizarre literary science fiction series that blends far future post-singularity mumbo-jumbo with Homer's _Iliad/Odyssey_ , Shakespeare's _The Tempest_ and a sprinkle of Proust for good measure. It's not as good as his famous _Hyperion cantos_ series, in my opinion, but worth checking out if you're a fan of both sci-fi and Homer's epics.
amazing review as always
Yes to pause, slomo, fastforward, and rewind in every videogame! There's no reason not to, twenty years past Sands of Time, ten years since Braid, and Halo 3's recording system. Maybe put processing power towards a standard for that stuff, gamercreatorfolk, instead of some pixel shader that only vfx professionals notice. I feel we need to replace those boring shell menu failstate and savestate systems with a gameplay timeline to scrub or click through.
rome 2 post 2014 became a excellent game, maybe my favorite total war campaign is its DLC empire Divided... i do concede some problems and the more arcade style differ from early total wars, but its like my third favorite total war after medieval 2 and rome 1.
as for troy, such a shame...
Great stuff! Very interesting mind food. You sent me down at least a couple wikipedia holes
Medieval 2 for life, babey!
I had no idea that Creative assembly had diversified into cigar manufacture...
Really enjoyed this review~ thank you!
"I think the battles, here, will satisfy players of both persuasions."
Oh, you sweet summer child.
"Suhgah"
"Bless you"
I am almost certain this guys doesn't know there is a pause button. You don't need the rewind button, just pause, take your time and issue commands.
George really like his culture/academics rabbit holes in game reviews.
hi George have you played the mafia series? with the soon released mafia 1 remake i'm really interested in what you think of the series especially the first one since its open world and story driven structure is really different than its competition.
from their dev log, troy shouls have multiplayer come november or so... but i will wait and see
I would call it "Paradigmatic dissonance", what's difference between you and the character is how they SEE the world, the paradigm, as written by Thomas Kuhn.
While I enjoyed the video (as I do all of your work), I would highly recommend that you read Bernard Williams’ “Shame and Necessity,” an excellent work of analytic philosophy from 1993 that, in my humble opinion, lucidly demolishes any claim that the Iron Age Greeks were somehow more “primitive” or “emotional” than us moderns.
Since you are into Ancient Greece so much I recommend looking to extra Olympia Kyklos for a more comical view of the whole era
A Spec Ops: The Line style Trojan War/ Odyssey game using the bicameral mind theory would be goddamn dope.
I guess funnily enough the MGS series kinda fits in that concept. Like if we assume MGS2 was full simulation, or that venom snake is completely delusional in MGSV to explain away how theres all the ridiculous worm holes and such. Maybe Kojima would be a right fit for a project like that....
About the centaurs and horsemen. Saddles hadn't been invented yet too. Mounting horses without saddles is hard.
Anyone else notice that the "great" and "not so great" review scores are only about 5 points in the difference?
Is this really the state of VG review scores?
As a theater and a history buff I agree a rock opera version of The Iliad would be badass!
I'm unsure which I prefer for this game: historical authenticity, pure Iliad mythology or "truth behind the myth".
They're all interesting, so it would have been cool if those were campaign options. Its understandable if the approach they went with seems a bit goofy, but even if it wasn't the preferred option it is definitely the most unique.
I think I would have enjoyed the "truth behind the myth" aspect of this game more had they committed to it instead of making heroes like Achilles into magical wizards. I think the game would have been a lot cooler if they didn't give heroes healing spells and massive health bars and instead made them act more like the Kenshi unit from Shogun 1, where they're so skilled in combat that its near impossible for the average soldier to actually land a blow on them but they can still be killed instantly if they get hit by one lucky attack. I think especially for Achillies it would have really fit well the soldiers' perception of heroes being demigods while still making them feel just as mortal as everyone else.
@@trevordavis6830 I agree. They could have made them "Heroic" without needing to make them superhuman.
If the soldiers *believe* that they are favoured by the gods like in that extract about Odysseus, they would be massively inspired by their presence to an extreme degree, and likewise demoralising the enemy.
I guess they gave them the Three Kingdoms treatment to encourage players to use them in duels.
You should definitely try Total War: Warhammer. From a gameplay perspective it's the best the series can offer.
Absolutely brilliant review, but who tf is "Betty Hughes"?
im taking sagatroy as confirmation that he's doing on purpose
Wasn't expecting a bicameral mind reference, but here we are. Very interesting when taken as a piece of speculative evolution, if not a rigorous scientific theory.
Scott Alexander (notorious blogger/psychiatrist) wrote an interesting post about the bicameral mind hypothesis.
This didn't get a notification for this vid. Good thing someone shared it on a discord!
A rock opera of the Odyssey already exists and isn't called "And then there was silence" by blind gurdian