May 2024: The tech layoffs have oversaturated the USA tech job market.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ย. 2024
- I was given some metrics out of the expensive LinkedIn recruiter product for a range of titles, so I did some data science on them... here is the result.
The USA tech industry does not currently have enough open roles to allow the bulk of experienced engineers to find work, there have been too many layoffs and now the market is oversaturated with qualified engineers looking for work.
If the numbers are incorrect, please let me know. I'm happy to do new data science as I get updated data.
It doesn't matter how many years of experience you have if multiple other people with the same large amount of experience is also looking for work. At that point, its RNG.
The numbers are even worse for mid level engineers or junior engineers with no experience.; In fact they are so bad that I feared making them public would create physical harm to jr. level engineers.
Companies do not want inexperienced or unskilled engineers in these roles and the glut of sr.+ level people available means that jr. level people are going to be competing with Sr.+ level people for Jr level roles, and hiring managers are simply going to prioritize the sr. level people with the experience they need.
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Fellow software engineer. Jobless 15 months. Currently homeless 🥺
Very disheartening to hear. I hope things will get better for you.
Holy fuck, what is up with this country
6 months here. Where do you live? Just sleeping on friend's couch?
Don't give up on yourself. You have value!
Damn 😟
I got laid off last week as a software engineering leader (Director). WIth 27 years as a software engineer, this is the worst I have ever seen it. It's a perfect storm: Section 174 of the tax code kicking in, Interest rates sky high so money is too expensive to borrow, and an election year where companies are waiting to see who gets into office before they spend - It's downright terrible. This will have an instant impact where the US falls way behind china and india. A lot of us are going to leave the field - sure tech pays the best, but when its watch your family starve and go homeless or take on 3 menial jobs, you take on those 3 jobs and eventually you grow in one of them. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of our engineers started working for companies overseas now. I keep thinking, well, we had a good run.
"It's a perfect storm: Section 174 of the tax code kicking in, Interest rates sky high so money is too expensive to borrow, and an election year where companies are waiting to see who gets into office before they spend." You have hit the nail on the head!
well said - section 174 also is not in the discussion as much as it should be
As a director, you knew that trimming the fat was just a matter of time. You take 5 top tier engineers and they can do the work of 1,000 average engineers. You've seen your fair share of fake engineers, though they are humans too, they have no business being in a software Engineer. The truth hurts but there are just too many people in the industry.
I've heard the expression "10x engineer," but by your numbers it comes out to more like 200x. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and allow for hyperbole. But this idea you have of what exactly was "the fat" is what I really take objection to. Tech is notorious for its booms and busts. The boom-and-bust cycle in tech isn't driven by engineers, neither everyday ones nor the 200x ones. It's driven by cheap money policies from the Fed fueling the booms, and then the eventual money tightening policies causing the busts.
Tech is inherently future oriented and lends itself to ideas of hitting on the "next big thing." Cheap money policies allow big shot investors to fund, say, 60 speculative ventures. Maybe this is 60 different companies or several ventures (a.k.a. products) in a single company. The diversification takes into account that many will ultimately be more or less profitable, a good number will simply fail and lose the funds invested, but maybe one or two may hit on the next big thing, or something very close to it. This kind of speculation gets more and more intense-more risky-the cheaper credit becomes.
The "fat," as you put it, is actually the ventures. Many tech companies are operating under the principle of "build it and they will come." Investors are willing to play along until credit tightens up and becomes expensive again. It's then we find out the "they," in many cases, are never coming, and these ventures have to be cut back radically, or simply shut down. As Warren Buffett has put it, "When the tide goes out, we see who has been swimming naked." That's what we're seeing now.
@@mariodiana7327 well said
I got laid off this week. My company makes billions, my division makes millions. But, still they released us. It's all greed. It's not good enough to be profitable. You have to make all the money and then some. It's gotten out of control. The government needs to wake up and stop allowing so many acquisitions and break up these larger companies. Greed and lack of competition is killing innovation and American jobs.
People up the food chain trying to get those bonuses. Literally no other reason.
With AI, higher ups already consolidated workflows and optimized projects to reduce heads
@@HH-xs2gm 🤣 No they did not. Hope this was sarcastic. Most manager level folks and up are confused as hell on how to effectively use AI tools, if they are even made available to them.
@@ismaeljrp1 But they don't care about AI as such. Their current set of users are still making them millions. They are simply in a wait and watch mode. They are waiting for the unicorn Ai tool which was promised by openAI and AGI preachers, who/which can apparently do work of 1000s of employees from PM to testers. There is no AGI it is simply a dream sold to people and investors to keep giving new set of funds, just another valuation ponzi scheme.
You cannot create AGI from existing sets of data, AI are simply churning out existing data with new combinations that's all. It's the same principle of having 1 Einstein per millions of people over decades of time.
And even If by chance AGI gets created, ain't nobody giving AgI to public it will be simply locked and only to be used by highest bidders.
Being able to fire people is exactly what HELPS innovation. If youre such an innovator make a startup
The truth is those jobs never existed in the first place. Many were created just to gloat for investors and show "continuous growth"
And the missing positions... many of them were filled by people who were working 1-2h per day if that (as many of the "A day in the life of a software engineer at ..) clearly showed.
In addition, overinflated titles earning big money but not producing the required ROI through no fault of their own in many cases - This is why taking 1/2 levels down of demotion is actually just normalizing the market.
Companies figured out that they get a Principal developer abroad for $120K vs a Junior developer locally for the same price so that contributed to this as well.
Hard pill to swallow but the market is never coming back as it was 1-2 years ago. There are too many forces at play: AI, Outsourcing, Offshoring, SAAS solutions, Cloud solutions, Low code, No code etc. They are all putting a dent in demand for SWE.
Software still is terrible. The result of most of the things you named should just be code that isn't riddled with bugs. The outsourcing shouldn't be a big deal because making anything that isn't trivial should be scrutinized and held to high architecture standards. It is hard to outsource the work being done by real engineers as opposed to web page jockeys.
If a key piece of software goes down, do they call up the people in foreign countries to fix it.
@@iMagUdspEllr while I don't disagree with you, the topic of quality is beside the scope of this video or my comment.
A sad truth that I have come to realize in the last 5-6 years that (most) companies don't really want quality even though they might state otherwise.
Quality takes time and money and most executives or managers are only interested in quick results with good enough quality to last for their tenure alone.
We are in the era of fast-code that needs to be delivered as cheap as possible so while your argument might be true, the mentality is: Let me get 50% of quality at a fraction of cost and we'll see later.
@@SM-sb4tr I really hate reading this, because I really want to disagree (as a software engineer), but it's true. You're right about quantity over quality, and I have seen it firsthand as well. I've also heard the "We prioritize quality over quantity, and we're not like the others." speech, yet when you join, it's clear how what they actually were saying is "We want quality software, but only if it is at the same speed and doesn't affect our financials. If you can give us quality then that's great, but if not, then we'll... Let's hope it doesn't break in prod :)".
Those jobs did exist. The demand for software engineers was on a very steep uptrend from 2011-2021, with 2016-2021 being the best period for software engineers everywhere.
Interestingly enough, those same workers voted against their own interests in 2020! Funny how that works. Maybe they’ll vote with their wallets come November.
@@hawkinlock
Remember when companies were artificially boosting their headcount and inflating their staff titles so they seem bigger in the eyes of investors?
Starting 2016 or so there the demand was artificial fueled by low interest rates and the general tech bubble hype. I've seen countless roles that were really working 2h per day cause there was nothing else to do and big orgs had just overhired. (Not just Engineering but Product Management, UX, Design, all the invented Scrum roles and others)
If you have 4 staff that each only have 2 hours of work per day to do, you can argue that 2-3 of them are basically redundant - hence those jobs did not really exist
A software engineer with empathy and compassion?! You sir, have earned my subscription. I agree, I was laid off by a fortune 50 company mid April, I’m a mid-senior level engineer but I’m actively considering junior roles or even switching my tech stack and expertise entirely (data to web dev )
I hate to say it, but my empathy and compassion seems like a liability in looking for a job.
they found cheap offshore workers
@@johnwick-v4j I don’t think this is fully about offshoring . I think there are some key economic indicators that they might be watching that are telling them that they’re going to need lots of cash on hand. We may be headed to some kind of recession or depression
@@honestduane How so?
Don't go into web dev. I'm a web dev and I want to make a switch to AI/ML, the money and jobs are going there more and more.
My current lead software engineer was previously a Director at a same size company that laid him off. Needless to say, he's completely disengaged in all the meetings after being forced to down level. My current manager used to be an cloud solutions architect and now has to manage and code 50-50 of his daily time to keep his job. I have to review his code sometimes. Help me lord! The market inside and outside is BRUTAL.
Interesting....
Got laid off a week ago very suddenly. In the middle of work at the office, got pulled aside with a few other software engineers and that was it, no access to our company accounts after a quick pep talk that everything is going to be ok. Business became inhumane.
same here for a manufacturer
'permanent layoff' they call it
Yeah the trade war is going bad and inflation is high. Look for other jobs or start small to be an entrepreneur with your skills like making a kickstarter.
Business was always inhumane. It just out on a humane face to appease us.
@@bezerker04 and pizza lunches
When you work on something that only has the capacity to make you 5 dollars, it does not matter how much harder you work - the most you will make is 5 dollars.
Just be a pirate.
@@gezenews Argh matey. This be the way.
Numbers.
Linux!
I really hate saying this. This answer is greed. Plain and simple. I REALLY want to be wrong, but I firmly believe that companies are mad at us for making them rich, and they see tech salaries outside the US as the answer. I have 7 YoE and I was unemployed for 15 months, submitted thousands of applications, did hundreds of interviews, and after SEVEN final rounds I finally got a job. In all honesty, it's pure luck that I was referred and found for this role as well. If only non-tech people knew how much we ACTUALLY do when we're not even on the clock. I've made companies more money while thinking in the shower compared to ANY meeting. It's really all a** backwards.
The worst part about this tech market is being gaslit by everyone.
Greed? The real reason the market is so bad is because we have a vegetable in the Oval Office.
@@hawkinlock That's the easy way out. When we can't figure out the facts, it's easier to blame something/someone. Blaming a president is a common cop-out, especially in a politically charged environment like we have now. Can we stop focusing on politics and being divided and attack the core problem? Interest rates are more to blame if we really want to mention anything.
Politics are NOT the answer. If we have factual evidence to prove this, then I'm open to change my mind and POV. Until then, lets stick, to factual evidence and not blame any single person/entity without hard non-bias evidence. It might feel good at first to place blame, but it doesn't fix the problem.
Pretty sure it’s not just the president. It’s the whole government working together as a corporate welfare state
I'm not saying it's not greed, but the main reason is because of a bad economy that's been perpetuated by the vegetable running in office
@@Peacekeeper_84 greed will always be a factor as executives have to respond to investors’ demands. I’m glad you admit that Biden is the main issue.
During the four years in which the “angry orange” was in the Oval Office, many tech workers experienced a boon but despised him (and refused to attribute the boon to him!) for some strange reason.
I wonder if those same people will still vote the same way they did in 2020 come November.
All this has motivated me to start my own thing. Can't fire myself.
!!!! Only way to go bro.
I've been working professionally for 28 years now and I have never seen so many people trying to "break into tech" all at once. It's almost laughable. And the majority of you want to do it just for the money. I'm sorry but that's not how it works. Companies know this and are pushing back. All of this has made a mockery of professional software development. The experienced among us has had a long career full of passion and continuous learning among other things. For those of you who have a real interest and passion for software development, you are just going to have to be a bit more patient until most of these other people who just want to make "the big bucks" are weeded out. Interesting times for sure.
I'm not a fan of people entering tech just for greed either, I just have never seen them as effective in the role. I have had to redo the work of many such people, and the sad fact is most of them detract from the capabilities and capacity of the team so they are simply a bad business investment anyway as they don't care about doing the work well and are only after a paycheck that they don't really earn. I would rather work on a small team of 3 different developers that actually care over a team of 50 developers that don't, because I've seen such teams of small people outdo such teams of large people professionally at big companies.
@@honestduane I've actually heard from people at places like Google that have had layoffs say that work is now easier with smaller teams.
im an unemployed entry/junior SWE (naturally) and i want more experience. I honestly would do the job for 35-40k a year just because i genuinely whole heartedly enjoy the learning, creative, and technicality of writing/designing software. I'm about 70% done with a masters in CS but due to my circumstances i can't finish the degree due to financial problems in the near foreseeable future. I had to sit down and ask myself if i wanted to do SWE even if the market is oppressively unfavorable to folks my skill level, and even if i was paid way under market value...and i realized as i mentioned earlier... writing software genuinely makes me happy. Its just a b***h to get professional experience, so at this point I'm just going to write my own mobile apps stick them up on the android/apple app stores and let that sit on my resume as proof that I can do more than just write a hello world. I don't know what else to do to show I'm competent and driven, since everyone seems to have the same handful of "prototype" software that they completed in their college courses, bootcamps, or udemy courses.
🤷♂🤷♂🤷♂
@@gilgameshcraos1260try contributing to open source. That experience can help because it is public.
It really sucks, I have been passionate about computers since I was 13 years old and and now I'm getting lumped with people who only care about money and couldn't care less about tech.
There is also the unemployment stigma, if the engineers laid off do not get a new job fast enough, their careers will be effectively dead due to job gap discrimination. Studies have confirmed job gap discrimination and that management is rife with antisocial personality disorders (narcissism, psychopathy, sociopathy) so there will be little to no mercy for the people with job gaps. In a capitalist system, those not needed are expected to starve to death, corporations are not charities. This has forced me to be more left wing economically, I view UBI more favorably. On a personal note I am seriously considering quitting SWE for good, I only got into this because I am disabled.
Do you have data about non-coding IT jobs?
There's a group called Tech Workers Coalition. I just joined that group recently. It's good to connect with our fellow tech workers because together we can make a difference.
Open up your own company while unemployed. Say you do contractor/freelance work while looking for work. When asked why look for work then, bs your way and say their company has a dream product and yadayada bs.
@@archardor3392 That is a great idea. I wonder if hosting a website for a fake company would be enough or if registering the business will be required, purely hypothetically of course.
I wouldn't do it to be deceptive, either be earnest about creating a side gig or instead just create a website for noncommercial purposes. I.e. a hobby or interest of yours just to show your skills like a porfolio. The key is to stay active and keep learning to show that an employment gap isn't a skills gap.
Yes. There is some kind of variant of survivorship bias among management. I call it "narcissistic survivorship bias." Put simply, it's the thinking that goes: "I did everything right, and I'm successful. This guy must have done something wrong."
I bounce between Texas and Oregon. Oregon tech scene is dead. And when you see paper signs on doors at Buc-ee's and QT gas stations and Panda Express offering 60 to 100K for store managers and assistant store managers, that's pretty decimating to one's hopes and sacrifices of spending years learning to code and building a career in coding/ IT/ etc when a field is so specialized is now worth 40 to 60k. Its worth more to society to count cash and manage people than it is to write software and maintain the infrastructure the is baseline for this modern world. Big Tech is its own worst enemy and with armies of software engineers and devs with no work, I think it will eventually come around to bite Big Tech in the *ss. What most of you all haven't figure out is how POWERFUL your skills are - you are busy scrambling to find another job that keeps you enslaved to insecure jobs when you should be banding together to decentralize society to make life better for all of humanity. All you techies do not realize your full potential or your full power because you have had to live under their thumb - now you are free to build a better world.
The US is essentially transfering all of it's IT human capital to India and Mexico. Biden has opened the flood gates with H1Bs and other offshoring incentives.
Exactly, thank you! Especially now of all times with GenAI in its early days. No one has more power and knowledge than these guys
@@devon9374 " No one has more power and knowledge than these guys " - its because they steal it from us and we give it to them for free through our data. That needs to end. Thank you for your comment
I've always wanted to live in a decentralized, autarkic society, but that sounds more like the Amish type of lifestyle. Having more to do with subsistence agriculture. What does Computer Science have to do with creating a decentralized society? I do not know how to make life better for all of humanity, and I don't even care anymore, as I just want to fend for myself and find a way for survival. I do not realize my full potential or my full power. What do you mean by that? Exactly, we all have had to live under their thumb. The governments and globalists. This planet is a controlled society, akin to 1984, but most people don't understand or those who do understand have learned to keep their mouth shut lest they step on you and squash you like a bug. As for me at least, I am convinced that this is the better option. Don't be a Che Gevara, or they'll come for you and they will destroy you. What are you going to do, say something politically incorrect and risk getting pummeled? Just surviving and making a living for your family is hard enough these days. Unless you decide to sacrifice your life like Jesus Christ. Build a better world, make life better for all of humanity? I cannot do that, I do not have the political power. I am not a dictator, I cannot build a new society, I cannot tell people what to do. If I were a king of some country, yes I would attempt to build my vision of an utopia. But I'm just a humble engineer, a nobody in the grand scheme of things.
@@konstantinrebrov675 Thanks for your reply:
" but that sounds more like the Amish type of lifestyle"
it doesn't have to be; we have the technology to create the things we need at home or in small enclaves in a collaborative means, such as 3d printing, vertical farms, solar, wind, home servers; etc; if used wisely, we can mitigate our need to be beholden to centralized supply chains; breaking away will take small steps
"What does Computer Science have to do with creating a decentralized society? "
it is only part of, of many types of sciences and technologies that can be used to decentralize humanity
" I do not know how to make life better for all of humanity, and I don't even care anymore, as I just want to fend for myself and find a way for survival. I do not realize my full potential or my full power."
Thats because you are suffering an identity crisis do the the capitalist free market system that conditions people to be nothing more than disposable workers; your apathy is called 'alienation' and is typical of disenfranchised people.
"Don't be a Che Gevara, or they'll come for you and they will destroy you. ...Build a better world, make life better for all of humanity? I cannot do that, I do not have the political power. I am not a dictator, I cannot build a new society, I cannot tell people what to do.....But I'm just a humble engineer, a nobody in the grand scheme of things."
Therein lies the power of decentralization - when everyone has free access to the things they need, things cannot be artificially hoarded for profit; if everyone has access to the knowledge they need to become self-sufficient, that knowledge cannot be withdrawn; through decentralization, you do not need a charismatic leader that can die with the movement or idea; no one individual can change society - it takes time and a cultural shift.
'Exactly, we all have had to live under their thumb. The governments and globalists. This planet is a controlled society, akin to 1984, but most people don't understand or those who do understand have learned to keep their mouth shut lest they step on you and squash you like a bug.....Just surviving and making a living for your family is hard enough these days.'
Utterly agree with that - but the thing is, we are rolling over and letting it happen to us because of all the distractions like fast food, shopping, social media, sports, legal drugs, etc make our wage slavery tolerable enough to bear. it makes no sense that less than 1% of the human population dictates the livelihoods of the 99% working class - we allow it because of social condition and culture - and they use money as the ultimate means of social control.
Thank you for your long reply.
you hit the nail on the head with the 'sacrifice' that goes into being on the bleeding edge of tech && software development (schooling is JUST the START of your ongoing learning)
I think my video on the lie of the hobbyist senior developer pretty much sums that up. The trick is to keep programming outside of work so you can gain the skills that make it easier for you to do the work at work.
@@honestduane This is I think 100% true of all tech roles, not just software eng. I am .. currently a platform engineer, but started as a linux SA (ops to devops to sre to .. platform engineering) and I 100% agree. Even if my current role does not make use of the bleeding edge market trends, if I did not keep up with that on the side for my own passion and learning, I would have been out of a job or relegated to just building CI/CD pipelines awhile ago.
The tech moves way faster than the business market can react. And to add to that, that personal passion after hours will (ideally) benefit you at work and make you better.
I liken it to say, a contractor who does construction for a business who will do the bare minimum to keep up with current standards, and a professional carpenter with a passion for his craft who will be able to tackle work that many of those contractors would say are not possible etc.
@@bezerker04 This. I would rather hire a carpenter who has his own shop at home over a guy who read about woodworking in a book once but never builds anything himself.
What the hell is going on? Inflation, unaffordable house prices, AI taking over all jobs, layoffs, no tech jobs, nobody goes out anymore, everyone's just glued to their phones... fuck! It's all been downhill since 2020!
it's been downhill for a hell of a lot longer than that
Imperial collapse.
I mean COVID pumped massive amounts of money artificially into things it shouldn't have. On the other side of that though you had other people forced to take huge huge investment losses (years of rent forgiveness etc). The market operates on its balance and typically with thin margins. All of the money we pumped into things or caused people to lose have upset the balance of things artificially and we basically will deal with the market repercussions for decades.
@@bezerker04 I always said the whole covid craze will coste more lives in the long term than any not made lockdown (they proved to be useless according to now published studies it was obvious back then already) But mass hysteria fueled by greedy pharma and politicians on a powersurge has enforced this one everybody. We should never forget and never forgive the initiators and supporters now everyone has to pay for their hysteria and greed. This comment was deleted multiple times again the censorship algorithms are still in place its disgusting.
I give up. I graduated last summer with my degree in computer science, and I have still do not have ONE interview.
go to EU countries,you will get job in 5 minutes and live pretty nice there with salary and dont have worry with healthcare like in usa which everyday are basically fight for life if some illness or accident happens to you
@@Mr11ESSE111 No, EU isn't even an option legally due to things like ITAR. your also not treated well at all in the EU, and after 6 months you can lose your USA citizenship.
realistically speaking there way to many software engineers in usa , atm market oversaturation
@@honestduane What? You need a work visa to work in an EU country which may not be easy to get. And you do not lose your citizenship ever. You have to renounce US citizenship yourself-and it costs money to do it.
@@benu_bird Not true, Talk to your USA accountant. if you spend over 6 months out of the USA a year it puts your tax status and Citizenship at risk. Talk to an accountant.
20 year QA professional here. 2 years of no QA role. No calls. Nothing. It is depressing. Lost my place. Lost a lot. Can’t survive of off 21.00 an hour. So sad. And US companies don’t seem to care one bit.
Ive never made more than $11/hour 🤷 im sorry that 3x minimum wage ain’t enough
they are not your dad... or family... me as a coder I am creating my company..
@@slickrick5811 yea it must be mega stressful to make $21/hr, more than some couples make combined, and still not able to make ends meet. Stuff like that is why i havent lived in my hometown for over a decade
I'm sure you know this, but QA is a function that can be easily offshored for cost savings.
yall spend yall life helping them becomes monopolies, but ignore the economics LAW that monopolies need NO innovation, good value proposition and entirely shielded from foreign competitive pressure thanks to government (TTok ban for example)
I'm actually surprised the numbers are even this good. I get it, they're bad, but they feel a lot worse than this right now.
every year we import tens of thousands of indians on h1b. why can't we hire our own people instead?
we've been doing this since the 90s. DBAs were the first to fall.
We protested back then, and were called overpaid raycysts- all we wanted was to ensure that there was a future, in the industry, for our own kids.
If they don't import them then they would move the entire office to India. Is that better? We live in a global world.
Companies hiring Indian's for getting the work done. And the American employees in the same organization is for eating dollars.
Indians are given a technical education starting in grade school...in the u.s., i got no tech education at public school except learning how to type on a keyboard. The class was called 'keyboarding' and I took it in highschool. To this day, I'm an excellent typist, but I'd rather have learned how to code so I could have gotten a good job. I graduated high school in the year 2000. I went to school in new england, in a good, well-funded school system and still no tech ed.
h1bs can be pushed to work way harder because they have much more on the line
If there is a market full of senior developers. But companies can’t hire them. Then you have a bunch of people with an insanely high skill set who can’t find work. Sounds like an opportunity for someone to take advantage of the situation.
I feel this is the beginning of the gig economy
Full stack dev with 7 years experience. Last month I was laid off with another 20+ people (including 4 other devs) because the company needed to meet a quota. I'm regretting not going into healthcare. Tech workers need to unionize or we'll be cut and stomped out into oblivion. Greed and capitalist interest will always win when people stay quiet and passive.
Getting tech workers to unionize seems like herding cats. There was so much money in that industry for so long that there seems to be a cultural aversion to any sort of "pro-labor" stance because they don't see themselves as regular workers like everyone else.
Be advised that there are tons of fake candidates spamming fake resumes everywhere. For example one of my coworkers just asked a candidate with 12 years ex. Zwith Ansible what a playbook is, and the candidate replied that they are willing to learn. Candidate cheating and bait and switching is also becoming more common.
I give him at least credit for having the guts to apply for such a high role and bluffing his way in. If he does this enough times, he'll get in surely.
Thank you so much for giving an honest analysis of the situation instead of trying to sell another bootcamp program.
Too many people on TH-cam pretend to be tech influencers, but can’t code and are not honest. I don’t want to be like them.
UK here. Got laid off and then next company again (only now different reason). Market is not great but i am hopeful. I am taking anything that is compatible with me, and aware that i want to say yes fast to any company vibing with me because of the competition you mention which i think could be here as well for sure
I got let go too. Im disabled from birth and is why i got into technology. As others played out, i was stuck inside during 90s-00s so got into computers. Decided to major in it (got double in CS and Philosophy). We were information age and thought it would work great in the future. However, seeing how things became as i graduated, so many in IT and CS got laid off. I cannot do physically demanding jobs. I don't want to do disability because I earned my degree. My issue now is as time passes, not doing my skills, they are getting worse. What i also hated was every entry job post college wanted 5+ PROFESSIONAL years of experience, not personal experience. Currently 4 months jobless.
A senior Software Engineer here!
Came to US to do my masters in CS, with an intention to grow my skillset and work on cool tech. Thinking American dream still meant something. But now I realize American dream is dead. All the big tech firms have been built on talented people and seeing companies go behind profits and not grooming talent really worries me. If this trend continues and they don’t hire people in the US, sooner or later the dominance of US will go down. The effect will be so evident as it’s all a cycle. It’s not about no jobs for Americans or internationals. It’s about no jobs for talent. If the companies decide to get their work done abroad then no one would come to US for opportunities, or the people who are here and aren’t getting jobs would decide to go elsewhere for better opportunities and quality of life. What will happen when people leave , there will be shortage in housing, the housing market will collapse , rents go high , economic turmoil will happen.
It’s a very weird spot. And something should be done to maintain balance.
Growing up I always thought hardwork and passion pays off but now I feel it’s just luck.
Good point
There is a shortage of housing now, the housing market will not collapse
you are an Indian / Indian origin yourself, nothing wrong in coming to US to make big $$$, but that's a risk you took.
If the jobs are coming to India, you lost twice - once by paying 3x fees as compared to whyte amrikans, second losing those same jobs to your cousins in India
Go home
Coporations in the US will simply adapt and tell the government to import more desparate foreigners when needed. There are an endless supply of potential worker slaves in the world willing to slave away for the American dollar.
This is a failure of leadership. There is plenty of things we can do, make, innovate, and rebuild, but the leadership - both private and public is lacking. Think the Great Depression, 25% of the population - many educated and skilled. They didn't have much to do until Germany started rearming itself, at which point everybody had to rearm also. During WW2, there was practically no unemployment.
If we can have no unemployment by killing people and then rebuilding what was destroyed, why can't we have no unemployment by building the future. Our leadership lacks imagination and action.
Because we humans are a very peculiar species, sometimes I believe we really are in a simulation
This is how Capitalism works friend. Capitalism is designed by the capitalists, for the capitalists. The system you aspire too is one designed by the workers for the workers and such a system would be called by another name....
I WAS a hiring manager at Amazon and had an open role. I was REQUIRED to fill that slot from Costa Rica as it was “cheaper labor”!
th-cam.com/video/xxxm4hsRAAQ/w-d-xo.html
Jeff Bezos needs another yacht!
I left the tech industry in the early '90s; I could see the writing on the wall. With engineers being laid off, companies constantly changing hands, and the bar for entry-level positions ever-increasing, it was clear to me that my future in this field would be a constant struggle, marked by boom and bust cycles. Did I miss out on the boom? Yes. But I also missed out on the anguish of being unemployed in the 3 crashes we've had since the 90s.
what do you do now?
Same problem in IT. Just laid off as a remote worker, the company laid off a majority of our US based team in favor of bringing in remote workers from India and the Philippines. It's been brutal trying to find a role.
I quite disagree with outsourcing in the Philippines. I am from Philippines but living in the United States right now. They are also having problem having tech job specially the newcomers. My colleagues there were also wondering why they don’t get any raise of salary.
@@ronuiux That was my experience. Half of our team was from the Philippines and I have no ill will toward Filipinos, currently live in the Philippines as an American.
For some of the cheapest corporations they are outsourcing remote jobs and it is a problem. These corporations are exploiting the labor market by paying them PH wages vs US wages, which is why they are doing what they are doing they just want to save money. It's disgusting and unfair on both sides.
I live in Toronto Canada and I know what happens to H1B people. When they lose their job they have some months to leave the US and Canada with all the problems it has, sucks them in like a vacuum cleaner. The interesting part, all the H1B people will be out of job because Canada is broken and there are no jobs even the retail jobs.
And when they lose their job, if they can't find a new job, and can't leave the US within those few months, what happens to them? Do they just become homeless, wandering the streets of a foreign country?
Jesus, retail jobs are gone , are we in 2009?
@@konstantinrebrov675 they are forced to go back to India.
@@Eric-v8t too many Indians came to Canada and the States
Please don't forget all thw foreigners working in tech in the USA and all the work being offshored to India, Argentina, Phillipinnes, etc etc etc other politicogeo factors in this picture...
spent the last 2 years working on my comp sci degree, and with 2 more years left these numbers really make me consider going into another field, which sucks cause im not sure if ill be able to find another field i enjoy as much
How will you compete with the people that are graduating this year and next year as well?
Pick a specialization you're passionate about and get really good.
In 2 years the situation will change.
This crisis will take maybe 1 more year.
You could also consider getting a master's in a different field straight after your BS. That way you might be able to break into a different industry depending on how the job market goes.
you need to change your degree now because you are wasting your time.
When you finally graduate you will be competing against people with way more experience than you and companies are no longer taking on new graduates and training them up.
Go into law, accountancy or something like that
The real 3d chess is make sure to move your infrastructure back to on prem and get the hell out of the cloud and SaaS.
My team has 3 Americans now and 10 H1b works they couldn't get anymore h1b workers so they brought in not one but 2 contracting companies that use outsourced workers from india and mexico. Your right it's a national security issue, our company has plenty of money but they found cheap labor and spend the savings on buying other companies and dissolving their workers and bringing in more outsourced people.
Got laid off from my first software dev position 1.5 years into my career (on January 2nd). I've been applying to jobs continually, reached the final interview ~6-7 times at this point and always ended up with the classic 'unfortunately' email. Tried to make a better portfolio website, keep learning and show I'm willing to take on anything thrown at me, but maybe it's just me at this point. Just got rejected from an overnight service desk position as well so not feeling too great with myself
Don't take it personally. It happens to everyone. It's the market not you.
I just graduated with a CS degree, I came from a bootcamp and graduated in April 2022, couldnt find work but in 08/22 i was picked up by same bootcamp to be a teacher's assistant. Worked there until 06/23 and went back to finish my degree because job market was dry and I was probably getting filtered for missing a degree. I was also getting hands on experience developing an app for a yoga studio during all this time. Now that i'm applying again it's still pretty brutal. I dont think working in IT is beneath me so I've been applying to those too. Hopefully something pops up.
So the boot camp failed you and now you make a living from people who will also be failed by the boot camp?
This is one of the many reasons why boot camps are scams.
@@honestduaneHold on a moment. I worked there until 06/2023, so i'm not there anymore. The bootcamp failed me in helping with job placement for an actual engineer position, I got to a few interviews, was really close but ultimately got beat. I will say I at least gained experience coding and made the most out of it. Bootcamps were worth it in 2022, a lot of my peers got placed into companies Microsoft, JPmorgan, Lowes.
Afterwards, from working at the same bootcamp I got to see the corporate side and the rose tinted glasses slowly faded out and had reality fade in. The bootcamp no longer wanted to keep reporting placement numbers towards the end of my contract, and a few months after the completion of my contract i read the CEO stepped down. There was still a chunk of people who got into roles months later, but right now I think that the many people who are still buying into it isn't good obviously, because you definitely need a degree these days to have at least a shred of hope in getting filtered through to apply for positions, and there is plenty of information out there about the massive layoffs which wasnt going on when I went. How could a bootcamp certificate compete against individuals laid off with experience?
@honestduane Hold on a moment. I worked there until 06/2023, so i'm not there anymore. The bootcamp failed me in helping with job placement for an actual engineer position, I got to a few interviews, was really close but ultimately got beat. I will say I at least gained experience coding and made the most out of it. Bootcamps were worth it in 2022, a lot of my peers got placed into companies Microsoft, JPmorgan, Lowes.
Afterwards, from working at the same bootcamp I got to see the corporate side and the rose tinted glasses slowly faded out and had reality fade in. The bootcamp no longer wanted to keep reporting placement numbers towards the end of my contract, and a few months after the completion of my contract i read the CEO stepped down. There was still a chunk of people who got into roles months later, but right now I think that the many people who are still buying into it isn't good obviously, because you definitely need a degree these days to have at least a shred of hope in getting filtered through to apply for positions, and there is plenty of information out there about the massive layoffs which wasnt going on when I went. How could a bootcamp certificate compete against individuals laid off with experience?
hunger games time
i volunteer as tribute
More like TH-cam study time.
So what kinds of skills are in demand? What kinds of jobs are easy to get? I don't mean within software or IT or "tech" or such, but *any* kind. Feeding fish at the pet store? Toe doctors? Rocket fuel technicians? Ice cream taste tester at the beach?
A person without ambition, content with the status quo, who loves life and can happily live each day with just a $15 hourly wage.
OF models...
This is very unfortunate, it really is.
The over hiring created inflated salaries and now the market cannot withstand the wages nor employees.
This is a recipe for disaster.
Perhaps the developers who didn't really want to program and just wanted a nice paycheck may find work in other areas of the economy.
I can tell you, that as a mechanical engineer, we are still having a hard time finding people with adequate "hands on" experience.
I’m employed and have been a dev for 25+ years. I have to get out of my job due to stress and the market looks so bad it doesn’t seem worth it to stay in the field.
100s of applicants with lots of experienced people applying for jobs. Even if you have experience it seems there is very little chance to be hired.
Time to freelance or start a TH-cam channel. I hate to say it, hope I’m wrong, but tech just looks like a really bad field right now. Either that or people are over blowing this. When I start looking I’ll find out.
@@ChicagoJ351 I’ve noticed people blow the tech market out of proportion since 2016.
Got my masters in 2008...just in time for the recession...worked in retail for almost a decade. Finished my degree in CS just in time for the tech bubble to pop. My luck is *awesome*. I'm 41 and have no idea what to do with a life that just could never get off the ground. Maybe it's time to go back to Taiwan and teach English again.
Agree with everything you said. Work as a instructor for a boot camp and edtech business. One thing i notice from alot of edtech business is that they are downsizing due to less people enrolling in tech.
Another thing i notice is that many jobs that are remote are now giving to third word country were you can pay them less. Have work a couple of remote job were i was a minority meaning I was the only American or Westerner. The majority were either from India, Lebanon, Nigeria or Africa.
Pretty depressing.
the tech market is terrible right now...and I agree that its a mixture of inflation, high interest rates, and folks not knowing what to make out of the economy until after the election in November. Im not sure what the answer is, but hopefully we see this better towards the end of year/early next year.
Well this is reassuring. Got laid off last year and have been looking for a job since. I guess it’s time reconsider another field
good idea. The tech industry as we know it is never coming back
I have no idea what field to consider next.
Thank you for this video. Previously I could land interviews easily but it's been so disheartening this past year. I have web apps and mobile apps and now i'm creating coding courses to try to make money. I am shocked that myself and other former classmates who are far better than me (such as engineers at Tik Tok and Google were laid off and can't land a role)
I wasn't social aside from some relationships and all my skills are in coding. My app is a recipe and workout app, so maybe I'll switch to being a line cook and eventually become a certified personal trainer. Then I can leverage my coding skills to improve my product and make a living that way.
The only roles I see are for lead positions which I unfortunately do not have the experience/skills for.
Overseas workers offer a more attractive cost-to-benefit ratio. They're a better bang for the buck. They are not necessarily better (or worse) in absolute terms, but they're a better package all things considered.
If this weren't the case, companies wouldn't be hiring overseas. So this is your empirical proof. It's up to you to adapt or move to a different field.
Resident workers are either too expensive or not good enough to justify the cost.
My personal experience shows that it's very tough to defend the decision of hiring a fresh-out-of-college junior when you could be hiring a seasoned professional from another country instead.
I just don't see the value of hiring from outside of the USA, given the talent that I have worked with inside of the USA. The code the offshore teams gave us never met the same quality bars, and so that has led me to believe that they simply are not as skilled or reliable.
Yes, the system is rigged in favor of the capitalists.....that is why they call it Capitalism. If it was rigged in favor of labor, it would be called by another name.
@@honestduane companies do see the value I guess
@@deadlydiminuendo2161 Only out of a ignorance of the risks and the harm it does to the company.
@gp5109 there are competent people offshore, they're just about as common as competent people onshore -- not very common. They're also not cheap. CheapER usually.
Yup, 20 year SWE veteran here. Laid off 6 months and have basically gave up applying to jobs. I may just go ahead and retire.
im sorry two decades is more than enough and most people in your bracket are retiring with millions. i hope you are in the same comfort level as other veterans. otherwise, perhaps you can retire and start a program to help entry level engineers upskill? give back to the community? teach at non profits like codepath or pathrise?
@@harryzhu You sound so clueless. People are putting kids through college and not everyone works for faang. You don't know their situation. Why don't you go work for a low wage non-profit to help others?
Do we get unemployment?
I have 20 yrs too...but don't have millions
@@bvssrsguntur6338 have to look at the rules for your state. Where I am from it goes off your income for the past couple quarters and caps at like 300 a week. It's something but it's not gonna hold you over long if you've been living off 100k+
H1B I believe needs to decrease in numbers. Sorry but companies have taken advantage of that program at the expense of US citizens.
This is because corporations were saying we need more and more computer scientists. Outsourcing and bringing in foreign coders. Boot camps etc etc. Need unions.
I know several places outside the US where you can make a good life in software without all this stress. But the fixation on $300k (and beyond) compensations is literally a carrot in front of hundreds of thousands of young minds. Also, I have no idea why so many americans keep going to expensive colleges in the US when you have WAY CHEAPER alternatives in other countries with the same quality or even better. You can't convince me that software engineering degrees in Utretch are not the same quality as Harvard, Princeton or the MIT.
If ppl in the us can't afford college, what on earth make you think living abroad is going to be any cheaper?
@@marzipan2555 I can assure you haven't looked deep enough. I won't reveal anything else so I don't add even more competition to college students of my home country.
@@deaddevil7 bro probably doesnt even know where utrecht is, feel free to ignore him lol
@@marzipan2555 Germany, Netherlands.. currently have relatively low-cost uni programs and also lower cost of living for uni students than does the US today. If you are a US military veteran on GI bill you can apply to the VA to get the uni approved for it and use it for uni in Europe. I did that. Switzerland, though, is very expensive in terms of living costs.
@@marzipan2555 cost of living and education is far cheaper here in India. My engineering college (state subsidized) was about 1000 USD a year.
Rent here for a 2bed, 2 bath apartment with pool, gym is around 400 USD a month. lots of fine dine restaurants which are affordable. Locally grown food, almost zero property taxes (less than 200 USD a year)
Hence even with lower salaries of say 40k USD a year, an Indian developer lives a good life. Lots of whyte amrikans and europeans do retire here (in nicer gated communities)
Honestly thinking there are people overworking in our industry that is killing it for everyone looking for work. Met a guy with 5 jobs recently…
Troubling data for sure, but I'm wondering if we are missing some context. When you say "People Open to Work" that just means they have the flag turned on right? One follow up question is how many people with the flag turned on are actively applying to these open positions. A better dataset that probably isn't available is the number of people actually applying to jobs at different frequencies(X people aggressively applying to 10+ jobs a day, Y people applying 10+ a week, Z people casually watching the market with 1 application a month and some others just having the flag on to see what comes in or who forgot to turn it off when they got a job).
On the other side of the equation, to make things worse, we have no real idea on how many of these open positions are just ghost jobs farming for applications without actually intending to offer a job.
Additionally what would help add some context is the historical trend of this ratio. The last few years have been crazy, but what did this look like pre-covid? Surely the current market is worse than the pre-covid market, but we'd need that historical data to really see how much of a difference there is.
Keep in mind that something like 600,000 developers were laid off in the last few years in an industry where historically around four million people in America actually work in IT and only 1.1 million of them actually know how to code. I have made videos on this.
@@honestduane Where are you getting that figure? Everything I see reported on the layoffs just lists them generally as Tech Employees and it seems like that number is roughly 600k looking at 2022 until this year. The few times a report I've seen has broken that into job title, software engineers, while at times the highest percentage , sits around 20% of the total layoffs. With HR, recruiting, business, finance and other non engineering jobs at tech companies being the large majority of tech layoffs. So I don't think the number of developers laid off is anywhere near as high as 600k.
Completely anecdotal but H1B workers I know aren't really struggling. I live in a larger metro in NC and many of the H1B workers I know have strong community support including managers that to be blunt of discriminate against people not like them. Some in other areas (based on videos and posts I see) seem to be struggling a bit and in some cases are heading to Canada and in others back to India. As several major companies are ramping up there presence in India I've heard from a few people (including one person I interviewed who lives in the US but is moving back to India as soon as he finds work) they're moving back. A huge consensus, especially from those with young kids, grown kids or no kids is that they can take their saving from living here and a relatively high paying job back in India and live a good life.
th-cam.com/video/xxxm4hsRAAQ/w-d-xo.html
Git copilot is added in many IT companies IDEs and they asked developers to take it’s assistance. It is the first phase but it is actually giving hood suggestions, giving error suggestions instead of searching online, writing some test cases. After collecting the performance report they would improve it and it might replace atleast few jobs.
“Learn to code” -> “Learn to weld”
The messed up thing is that I can do both 😢. 15 years of experience as a welder here who recently graduated with a CSBS degree Magna Cum Laude trying to get out to break into tech. Been programming since I was 10 as a hobby and now I am 42 years old. This is just another hurdle I am gonna have to tackle.
@@Psychopathetica why did you leave welding? just curious
they dont know most welders only make $13/hr…better learn how to roof.
I'm a senior SWE. I really hope this gets better soon. It's looking like I'm going to have to move back in with family since I can't renew my lease at my current place without income 3x greater than the monthly rent cost. This is seriously fucked up. I feel like I've worked so hard for nothing.
Ive seen even Junior dev jobs looking for 4-6 years experience it just makes me sick
It's been that way for a decade lol
You're forced to accept another job not in tech to make money and lose your skills or fall behind on trends and then struggle to make a comeback.
Junior engineer. 2.5 YOE. laid off a year ago. Looking at the army now.
Have you thought about building or joining a startup?
Good luck I’m thinking about getting into a trade truck driving
@@manny7662it's so easy bro
Tech workers haven't done anything to protect their jobs, the reality is now: Tech work is a temporary job.
It's disappointing, too, because I love tech and coding. I don't want to give it up to do something else
Ratio is even worst because so many open position are not real. They are to: show investors company is growing, keep calm current overloaded teams for new comers, build future candidate database in case someone will leave or new project will come.
The Federal Reserve turned off the money spigot and companies are now being forced to be profitable or suffer the consequences. They can't just burn cash endlessly to pump valuations. If we can survive the recession, then eventually, the Fed will revert to quantitative easing, companies will go back to hiring, and the new cycle will begin. Its just a matter of time.
We did the quantitative easing to help with covid. If we need to do that just to save the economy, then this world is fucked.
No QE was to prop up the stock market. Remember, this is Capitalism, and the ruling elites will do anything and everything to save their own asses....QE goes back to the 2008 financial "crisis", or bad actions of the banksters.
@@Joe-ku1ko QE was in place ever since 2008 and they were just starting to reduce QE when covid occurred.
@@KazuhiraMiller-e7o Clearly not on the same order of magnitude if the markets and economy pumped so much that people are only feeling the pain after the past couple of years, right?
kind of. around the corner, temperature increases will cause wheat to stop growing in optimal quantities - and 3 years from there, corn. agricultural shortages are going to strike big. get large quantities of food while it is available bc the supply chain is collapsing!
buckle up, it's going to get much worse.
This is also an opportunity. All of these people sitting on the sidelines with years of experience that worked at FAANG and other BIG Tech, why are so many people complaining?! Let’s come together and build something. Bitching and complaining won’t do anything..
USA AF comment right here. No question, this is the answer.
Was thinking the same thing. My experience is mostly Support Engineering for data science infrastructure but I’ve been working as a barista while building apps and have been surprised/inspired by success that some very simple ideas has had lately. Just saw a TechCrunch article about a notes app for organizing links. I assumed there’s no more room for simple ideas that catch on but based on all the note taking related products maybe that’s not true? I’m interested in building products for small businesses and schools.
"Bitching and complaining won’t do anything.." - Bingo
To this day I cannot even get a basic help desk job. I do have experience and have the education. Ive been trying since the start if Covid, t keast back then i was able to get interviews, now i cannot get anything accept rejection letters. The IT sector as a whole is saturated with new comers into the industry, junior level individuals and seniors. I have noticed senior people are dropping down snd apply to entey level. Obviously they have more experience and would get the job.
Why should a company hire somebody with no programming experience for a basic IT test job If people with senior software development experience are willing to apply for those same roles?
Do contact help desk roles. Get that a+ certification and start at the bottom. Yes you will start at 20/hr which is TERRIBLE. .... but in 2 to 5 years you will be worth $30/hr and now can apply for permanent positions once hR is not afraid there is something wrong with you for having a gap. Remember managers think the market is tight and assume the worst. As a contactor they can fire you easily and are more likely to give you a chance. Basic Microsoft certs and a A+ will get you in the day for temp work.
If seniors are forced to take on entry level positions....it's time to move on man, no future for you here.
@@alals6794 Just 2 years ago employers were forced to hire junior for senior level roles and pay. It is just the inverse now. It will re-balance out in a year or 2. IT is a boom and bust. Once you have that 5 to 10 years experience you can sail thru the busts. It still pays awesome long term
I saw someone I went to school with who is somewhat of a developer. He got laid off about a month or two after me in May/June2023. He got a job about a month ago. Im still looking. I think he got a job as a tech support? WITH a company ive interviewed at about 3 times since last year. Not once was I given an offer. I interviewed foe SWE positions. I found this to be so frustrating. Like it feels like im seeing people I know in my network get jobs so easily but im over here building a business, putting in so much work learning so much shit. But im not good enough apparently.
The fact that LinkedIn charges $17K/month for access to this database shows who they cater to. It's certainly not the "working man".
You misunderstand.
You aren't paying for LinkedIn, but you use it, and surely benefit from its existence.
Isn't it good that other revenue channels are subsidizing your free usage?
The sotuation is really bad, last year my freelance conrract finished and I was willing to work for minimal wage just to be able to practice my skills.
I have found work in 2 months so I was VERY lucky.
Hey man great vid! I think the problem it outsourcing blue collar workers had to deal with it with China, but now white collar also has to deal with lower cost geographies (india, mexico, poland). It’s like deinsdustrialization but for tech. I am conflicted about this it creates a very complicated job market for developed countries even if you leave senior positions and all entry level positions are outsourced, how do you even get there? But on the other hand it gives people from those countries better jobs (mind you these companies are the biggest winners and reap most of the profits)
They get better jobs but the product is consumed by the West....when the Western consumption stops or is decreased sufficiently, then the system collapses.... because they are never paid enough to keep the game going.
Darn you guys deserve these jobs too you’ve worked 20+ years, but I have no hope I’m suppose to finish school in a year. It’s so depressing because I won’t ever get a job. I can’t hold a candle to you guys with experience 😢
Lots of outsourcing. If company wants to sell product here they should produce it here
Not H1B, but I worked in Canada as a TFW for 6 months before getting laid off by the company that sponsored me. After being unemployed for over a year, I made it out of that country. Gov did f all to help me. Had to fight tooth and nail to get the unemployment benefits I was entitled to, and which was essentially my own damn money in the first place. Over 5,500 applications sent. 0 offers, just stupid games and scams. I'm lucky to have made it back to the EU. Never going back to Canada or the US. Ever. Sincerely, an experienced dev who almost unalived themselves 2 times during this ordeal.
And still we need H1-Bs?
Man.. Got 5 YoE as a web dev. I thought I may be able to make the jump to senior but the more I apply I wonder if i need to go for junior roles. It's hard to even get a phone screen.
Whoa....5 years used to make you senior years ago.....Ok, back in 2015
@@alals6794 a lot of the senior job postings have 3-5 years on them. Some of the local ones have double that though so it’s pretty scattered. I think there is too many people applying to be right on the edge right now though but maybe it’s just me
Good to hear the 3:1 ratio on tech job availablity, especially because tech jobs are some of the highest paid jobs
I personally theorize the problem is a few layers deeper. No one has money to spend in this 'grand' market propped up on consumer-bonanza stilts. Cut out all the software that was being built and upkept in ecommerce, what's left? Not much imo, not much at all. Mix that in with the greed cites other commenters made and the gargantuan mass of wealth that's been shifted up to the 1-2% (that don't seem to want to spend downwards) and other industries that have seriously deflated (hollywood/film, look at brick and mortars, ex.) - it's absolutely disastrous. My heart hurts, and that doesn't even begin to explain the level of sadness. It's gotten so widespread now, there is absolutely no denying the recession soup we're all about to boil in.
The govt needs to do something. I think removing tax breaks (maybe even slapping back) from corps that have cut headcount, especially in cases where their numbers continue to rise, absolutely needs to be implemented. On the flipside they should gift more tax incentives for increasing real-human head count with provable, durable positions (could delay the tax $ by a couple of years), and at $ rates that match a given level. They could require a minimum of employees of an american company to be americans for now and again, slap back if they don't budge.
The government works for the Big capitalists....this has been the case since the country was founded. Heck it has been the case since the inception of Capitalism itself, about 300 years ago. It took the scare of the 1930's Great Depression and the specter of the 1917 Russian Revolution before minor reforms were instituted by FDR, like Social Security, etc....
interested in knowing statistics for the junior roles
if i had to guess it would be around market being able to handle only 10-15% of the available applicants
Nobody is hiring juniors right now due to the glut of Sr. devs. basically for every 100 possible open roles, maybe 1 of them might be open to hiring a junior, I'm not able to get better numbers than that. The worst part about this is that most of the so-called starter jobs are looking for the experience of a senior.
@@honestduane i not blame them would do the same given the oppurtunity
many of us said years ago that the tech market numbers didn't make sense and they were all fake. So, we prepared ourselves for this inevitable outcome - we learned new skills and we started moving on to other fields. Everyone laugh at us and told us that tech specially sw engineers would always be on demand.
Who's laughing now?
I have experience but not enough, I joined tech during the COVID era and now I can’t find any work at all. I’ve been unemployed for so long
@@sardineBro it’s alright to do some side gigs to being incase little something while you look!
Learn to code….
Oh wait.
Learn to pick stuff up and build things I guess.
Thats the spirit 😂👍🏻
Where does this leave the tech people that can really innovate? Look at this as an opportunity to evolve skillset. We all know tech changes everyday, and what worked yesterday will be changed tomorrow. Just pivot and find something your passionate about. All those late nights and the grind can never be taken away from you. You have that now, and all this means is just expand on what you know. Find that passion again!
Oh they are VERY proud to be overtaking us overseas.. I see posts on that a lot on Indeed.
Oh, I got laid off a year ago and then tried to get my old job back from the employer previous to that. They put me through the grinder of multi-round interviews and assessments. On the day they told me no thanks, they laid off an entire team and moved the work to their newly opened office in Mexico-which they're very excited about, going by their LinkedIn posts. Then, some months later, they laid off some more people. U.S. tech is falling apart.
the market is tough rn.
Moved to US last year on L2 visa as husband got transferred to US office. Came with big dreams of working in tech in NYC. Have 12 years of experience as SE but no jobs. It's impossible to find a job if you are an outsider, with non US college degrees if citizens can't find jobs. I have given up now and thinking of becoming an artist.
Remote work showed how useless 80 percent of office people are.
Time to immigrate to India to get a tech job now😢 hopefully after few years we can achieve India dream.
You can't; it's not legal in India for somebody who's not a born citizen of India to even own property. And section 174 of the United States tax code would make an employer have to deal with tax issues for 15 years, if they decided to employ you anyway.
I knew once people started doing all this work from home that if people could do their job from Montana then why not India? They say the unemployment rate is currently at record low levels, but it doesn’t seem like it when you talk with people. I don’t know what the deal is there.
People who work in the SDLC lifecycle - we need to unionize.
There's a really big opportunity right now though for anyone tech person that can create jobs for others. There's so much talent out there right now willing to work.
i have 6 yoe and left the tech sector for good a few months ago. I had been looking to get out for reasons that predated the 2023 "tech recession", but finally left on my terms last year while employed. It all just made me realize I wanted a highly stable path where I could clock in and clock out and not needing to take my work home with me and to be more valuable with experience going into retirement.
I feel for new grads and lower yoe folks especially. But all I have is doom and gloom. This will take years to correct.
There's no need for doom and gloom. Programmers are still valuable. Apps still need to be developed.
And indie games are more popular than ever. While free game engines like Godot have made it easier than ever to get into making indie games.
There still is a future for new devs.
It's even worse than this because there are a ton of us who do not have "open to work" on our profiles.
I took what money I still have and am in Japan now, gearing up for another startup endeavor. Time to pivot and change your life!
Well everybody lrned 2 code and now they got the "everybody do x" bust. I remember the "everybody go do the eral in norf dakota" boom/bust too.
In tech when you got a good paying position remember you're getting that salary so you better n squirrel it away for down turns. But it's terrible how tech companies handle this of late.
this will give a huge leverage for companies to push people to work more hours/accept less pay, possibly until they can go for a complete replacement through AI. I want to bet it's all part of their long game.
Interested in the junior numbers
Its worse.
@@honestduane show them!!!!
My guess would be 3-5x the senior numbers going after 1/4 the jobs
Bad
@@honestduane I'm also very interested in the junior numbers. How much worse?
@@gehdochnicht 1 in 100 but you have to have the skills of a sr dev.
What about us that just graduated, seeing some of you guys with 10 or 20 year of experience been laid off, what are we to do now? after spending years studying and building project for me to see mass layoff and no entry Jobs. why the laff off, is AI causing it or Over Hiring due to COVID?
My other videos explain why this is happening.
@@honestduane My guess would be, offshore and work visa holders are taking 50% pay cut. Seem to always be the reason.
Honestly please post the junior numbers, I’m 27 and just discovered I was two credits shy of an Associates with a focus in Comp Science at my local community college I’m finishing for the hell of it. I’ve been coding in my free time for my own enjoyment for a couple years and thought trying to get good enough to be hired would be a good way to support a new family, but if it’s hopelessly fucked for me I’d rather keep enjoying it and not go into debt for a Bachelor’s.
My company has been looking for c++ engineers and some could not pass the interview and ones who did got other offers. I think so many bootcamps and langauges like c# js and python produced glut of engineers who dont have in depth knowledge. They can memorize leetcode and change a color of an html component with js but can they write multithreaded commercial system level code without any libraries and frameworks?
Why would a junior be able to write commercial code
oh can i ask what a minimal requirement is for a c++ junior engineer is this days? i am curious about that.
We were looking for seniors with years of experience. Then we could not find them so we were ok with juniors too. There is no minimum requirement overall knowledge of the language and oop was required. We had no faang style coding tests. Still it was hard to find someone.
@@rocomilano1396 thanks great insight it`s for me
Serious question here: Why would you write multithreaded system level code without using a library or framework? If the library or framework is mature and stable, that represents hard work over a long period of time done by smart people. What?! You want to outsmart that?
Why didn't all the foreign tech workers we imported create more tech jobs the way they promised to?
Something sounds like bullshit with all this. Few years ago, cant find enough talent and in the time it takes for a single new class of engineers to graduate into the field, its oversaturated? Even if we're just talking senior level stuff the numbers shouldn't have changed that much because its not like there are a billion mid level engineers 2 years ago.
I think you're forgetting that 600,000 developers have been laid off, In a market that only had 1.1 million people who could actually code out of the 4.1 million people working in IT.
@@honestduane From what I've seen its only about 300k layoffs in I.T. and that is I.T. as a whole, not just programmers. Even with those numbers it doesn't make sense that we're seeing jobs with 500 applicants.
@@kevinb1594 LinkedIn’s applicant count for a particular job is notoriously inflated. Clicking the apply button doesn’t always guarantee that someone applied because often times the link is to an external site. Also, sometimes the employer will post the same job ad over and over again; like, not just a carbon copy for the same role… it will literally be a job ad that went dormant for a while and is now brought back. The applicant count is often cumulative. Also I was told that LinkedIn often counts page visits as applicants for a job position. You might want to check with some sources and ask them if what I am saying is correct but I heard this from tech recruiters who work with LinkedIn quite a bit. They could be wrong lol
There are ghost jobs and ghost applicants. This isn’t being taken into account at all with these statistics, and unfortunately stats without context are pretty useless for decision making. Some stats claim that 1% of all jobs will soon be Cybersecurity - LOL
Boom and bust cycle … been through three rounds of these cycles.