有錢人居然會搞革命！？／米迦 講兩句 #3 資產階級革命 BOURGEOIS REVOLUTION／
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
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（Kongner有關道尼嘅「三不一沒有」原則：不主動要求；不鼓勵追求；不抗拒收受；弟兄姊妹沒有必要道尼的理由，所以大家隨緣樂助，切記係唔收八達通，多謝大家支持）
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資料來源：
呂正理：《共產世界大歷史：一部有關共產主義及共產黨兩百年的興衰史》，(遠流，2020年)。
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如果對於呢條片有咩意見，請多多指教。
我哋會竭盡全力做到最好。
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#資產階級革命 #光榮革命 #資產階級
![就讓我們娛樂至死！我們熱愛的娛樂媒體是如何使我們不再思考 [做乜嘢懶人包]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/blYrZlNMfL8/mqdefault.jpg)
條片真係好仔細而且有條理。由君權神授去到君主立憲，資產階級既係一個好重要既角色
諗住繼續聽北美嗰part, 點知完左😂
舊大陸影響新大陸甚深
-而且有高盧雞這世紀級攪屎棍-
幾驚仲要等多幾集嘅講兩句先至再講資產階級😂
條片好正！但係 有幾點想斟酌：
9:54
- 霍布斯講嘅「契約」，係**人民之間**嘅契約，同意將權力轉移畀 「主權者」(Sovereign)；而唔係人民同政府嘅契約。呢點成日都會攪亂 [1]
10:20
- 霍布斯本人之所以提出契約論，不論目的抑或效果上，都唔係支持Cromwell嘅統治；恰恰相反，係要反對佢地。
Cromwell後來雖然搞獨裁，但係佢班人本身係共和主義者嚟，簡單啲講即係反對君主制，相信只有民主制度嘅制約，先能令人免於統治者任意權力嘅蹂躪，**有民主先有自由**。
而佢哋嘅理論基礎就係可以追溯到古羅馬時期嘅「共和主義式自由」（republican freedom），而唔係Hobbes講嘅契約論。
（話說大名鼎鼎嘅文學家John Milton--無錯就係寫《失樂園》嗰位--其實後生嘅時候幫過Cromwell政府寫文宣，提倡共和主義）；
至於Hobbes本人係支持君主制嘅，但係舊有嗰套「君權神授」理論嘅影響力又衰落，所以Hobbes寫Leviathan嘅目的，係要提出一套唔靠宗教嘅理論，以及另一種對「自由」嘅理解，嚟抗衡Cromwell班人嘅論述。
如果你睇Leviathan的話，你會留意到一開頭Hobbes對「自由」嘅定義其實好闊，即使政府用嚴刑峻法嚟製造寒蟬效應，只要政府唔係喺物理層面強行阻止你行動，根據Hobbes嘅定義你依然係「自由」。 [2]
Hobbes就係用呢種近乎偷換概念嘅方式，嚟到削弱 「民主普選」同「自由」之間嘅關係。幫君主專制辯護。[3]
參考資料：
[1]: www.gutenberg.org/files/3207/3207-h/3207-h.htm#link2H_4_0207
//A Common-wealth is said to be Instituted, when a Multitude of men do Agree, and Covenant, Every One With Every One, that to whatsoever Man, or Assembly Of Men, shall be given by the major part, the Right to Present the Person of them all, (that is to say, to be their Representative;) every one, as well he that Voted For It, as he that Voted Against It, shall Authorise all the Actions and Judgements, of that Man, or Assembly of men, in the same manner, as if they were his own, to the end, to live peaceably amongst themselves, and be protected against other men. //
[2]: www.gutenberg.org/files/3207/3207-h/3207-h.htm#link2H_4_0251
// It is therefore the action, of one that was Free; so a man sometimes pays his debt, only for Feare of Imprisonment, which because no body hindred him from detaining, was the action of a man at Liberty. And generally all actions which men doe in Common-wealths, for Feare of the law, or actions, which the doers had Liberty to omit. //
[3]: 有關呢度啲意識形態歷史瓜葛，我係參考思想史家Quentin Skinner喺 “Liberty before Liberalism” (1998)嘅講法
第10-11頁就有講到：
// As Hobbes himself always emphasised, one of his aims in putting forward this analysis was to discredit and supersede a strongly contrasting tradition of thought in which the concept of civil liberty had instead been associated with the classical ideal of the civitas liber a or free state. This rival theory had also been a prominent feature of Roman legal and moral argument, and had subsequently been revived and adapted by the defenders of republican libertd in the Italian Renaissance, above all by Machiavelli in his Discorsi on Livy's history of Rome. As soon as the theory I have been describing was put forward by Digges, Hobbes, Filmer and other royalists in the course of the English revolution, a number of sup- porters of the parliamentary cause responded by reasserting this classical understanding of liberty, thereby giving renewed prominence to what is perhaps best described as the neo-roman element in early-modern political thought.//
其實咩係‘自由’已經好大爭拗，未必係單純偷換概念，thomas hobbes 講既係‘免於生命財產受威脅的自由’，係一種positive freedom 既concept（詳細可以睇berlin 既two concepts of liberty，通俗d講類似於‘財富自由’，講既係achieve 到某種理想狀態的能力），而你所講既係negative freedom，即不受限制（包括政府的限制）作出行動的自由，兩種自由都有佢既重要性。而且hobbes 生於英國內戰時代，因此對戰爭反感，寧願有強而有力的政府來防止內戰的發生，因此佢既出發點確實係為人民，但當然實際效果好似片中所講，因為無更高權力可以enforce 呢張‘social contract'，所以有機會變成濫用權力的政府。
@@tttam1334 我話Hobbes偷換概念，係相對於Cromwell嗰班人提倡嘅（當時比較主流嘅）定義而言。
同埋Hobbes對自由嘅定義應該係negative freedom? 因爲佢淨係強調free from (physical) obstruction，而唔係achieve 到某種理想狀態的能力（除非活喺嚴刑峻法底下動輒得咎都算係理想狀態）
（同埋「財富自由」都係回應緊外在環境嘅限制，所以都係negative freedom，不過比較substantive噉解；positive freedom係更加抽象，講緊人嘅能動性嘅*內在*侷限）
又，其實不論republican freedom定Hobbesian freedom都唔係positive freedom，因爲都唔涉及「追求人性完善狀態」或者「免於內部限制」
Quentin Skinner有分析過呢個問題
th-cam.com/video/PjQ-W2-fKUs/w-d-xo.html
組織流暢，內容簡而精，真係有心有力
下兩集仲唔係無產階級革命
我好興奮呀～
點解可以咁勁咁精簡咁清楚
Like左先，一陣返黎再睇
好好
👍🏽
新片 第一時間睇
講到美洲嘅人民，又醒起早兩年嘅神Game皇座已經提到當時嘅美洲人
係非常推崇一種叫做 昭昭天命 嘅意識
呢集好似比之前Dense咗，好期待下集講多兩句。
唔夠喉😭😭
可以講一吓社會主義同埋無產階級革命？
bgm 聲大左少少, 節拍感太強有少少off focus左米師傅講既內容, 其他好好//
補充下// 我發覺睇埋畫面就無off focus 問題, 齋聽聲先有~
(我習慣播Kongner d 片邊聽邊工作, 有時資訊性重既新片會先聽之後再補睇番畫面~)
肝肝剪片砌畫面都好辛苦嫁 十零分鐘好好睇左佢
而家嘅中国算唔算係利維坦嘅實現🤔
第一代統治者由撰寫社會契約(憲法)第一刻，就已經無諗過要去遵守。
o.o
孟德斯“gau1"，講到好似粗口咁
係同一個音黎
周末有Happy Kongner片睇的人是有福的
“政治就是妥協的藝術”。。。。已經太多人唔記得咗~
好多對人民好重要既概念，偏偏返學係唔會教，多謝米師父分享！
就好似同frd 咁講兩句就十幾分鐘😂
好想聽埋北美更先進既政治制度發展
正嘢🤧
呢個系列好正，欣賞Happy Kongner嘅製作
我會繼續支持你哋㗎！
廣東話係正嘅
講得很好 支持
support
另一個英國
會有皇家海軍和皇家空軍
乃至皇家警察的頭銜
而沒皇家陸軍的原因
-沒陸軍叛變事哪成-
-哪次革命沒陸軍攪事-
好片
👍🏾
幾時有下集😭好想聽埋你講埋😭
嘩，正呀
然而弟兄們都受到 "Konger 三傑" 的啟蒙運動而影響，包括就係 米迦, 愷師父 同埋 Ringo
英國 美國 加拿大嘅歷史同互動都非常有興趣
點知最後停咗。。。
精彩
ni ce
great, thx
thanks!~~
幾時講埋北美果2句
睇嚟唔止我一個由RDR2神作果條片等Kongner講北美；真係等咗好耐