British rail made a double decker train. It went about as well as you'd expect. Also please have a look at the BR class 91 HST. It's one of our best trains
the southern 4DDs that you refer to were oliver bulleid, not british rail, they were just introduced after nationalisation. they also ran in service for more than 20 years so yeah it did go as well as you expect if you expected them to actually have a decent service life
@@Trainman10715 Yes they did run for more than 20 years but there was a reason only 2 total were ever made. They were made to increase capacity which they did very well at, they were also made so that the platforms wouldnt have to be extended from 8 to 10 car train capacity on the route they served. But the way they were designed meant they had to wait longer at stations because they had double the amount of passengers boarding and exiting them through roughly the same number of doors a normal train has. Not to mention the cracking and stinky feet issues. After about 2 years they discontinued making the 4DD because of the issues they had and ended up having to extend the platforms on the line anyway in the end. So yeah, they stayed in service for a good amount of time but so did the pacers :)
@@garysimmonds1439 they weren't ever intended as full production trains, they were always experimental, that's why 2 were built, to test if the idea was practical. Once they found out it wasn't practical it was discontinued and even then served for a surprisingly long time for a class of only 2. The pacers have nothing to do with this, the pacers remained in service for so long because they were incredibly good at doing what they were designed for and were loved by the operating companies for how cheap they were to run and maintain, along with their excellent reliability and simplicity making them quick to repair, they were damn sight more reliable than the trains that replaced them. The 4DDs on the other hand were never that good at what they were designed for
@@garysimmonds1439 they didn't "discontinue making them after two years", they built two units - a single 8 car train with approximately the same capacity as a 10 car conventional one - for testing purposes. And the testing showed that while the trains worked mechanically - they were pretty standard in that respect - the disadvantages of the packaging (not double decker, by the way, as other people have commented) outweighed its advantages. That's what you build test units FOR, to test things.
no the biggest lemon was privatisation and selling off things like the the test centre at derby where they could of worked out why the class 800s are cracking so bad Ironically for all that was bad about BR the system of throw enough shit at the wall somehow worked
Additionally for the Claytons, to contextualise how bad they actually were, it was standard British Rail Procedure to hang out the cab door while in motion with a fire extinguisher in order to extinguish a fire in the electrical box
The 4D was such a lemon, and despite that it’s one of my favourite trains of all time. I just love it’s design! There’s a similar tale from Melbourne’s PTC, the Refurbished Harris trains. There were 2, one was just a repaint of an existing Victorian Railways harris train into PTC “The Met” colours, and the other one was a complete rebuild. The channel MetroManMelbourne has a fantastic video about it. Also it’s pronounced “mElbn”, a lot of people get that wrong don’t worry.
You have 1D trains which go along a single line with no deviations You have 2D trains are on railroads with switches changing either elevation or horizontal position. You have 3D trains which have switches changing both horizontal and vertical positions. You have 4D trains which-
Ah I know this one, isn't this the rail operators that took over since the privatisation of British Rail that operate services where an MU (either diesel or electric) with too few carriages/coaches for the average number of users for that service, working on the principle of "they're bigger inside than they look" like Dr Who's Tardis ------ lol.
One more thing about the turbo. Via loved the turbo and the crews who looked after it in the so called "Turbo pit" and were extremely dedicated to her.
The Class 17 was supposed to the new standard Type 1 locomotive for BR, but it was equipped with 2 types prime movers the utterly unreliable Paxman 6ZHXL and the more reliable RR Type D. Not only were there were 2 type of prime movers they were fitted with 2 types of multiple working equipment. Those built by Clayton were fitted with the system coded by BR by a Red Diamond, and those built by Beyer Peacock were fitted with the common system coded Blue Square. Hardly standardised.
can I recommend another Indonesian Train for this? Especialy the steam engines cuz.. We do have some troublesome steam engines here. The mostly known were the C53 pacifics which was a 4 cylinder compound (a nightmare to maintained for workers, a very high repair cost, and would swayed violently when the engine reaches 90 kph, sometimes.) And 2 Alco Mallets numbered DD50 and DD51 (both engines were known for a high coal consumptions, only reached 40 kph when the Dutch East Indies Railways at the time wanted them to reach 50, and the DD51 were so heavy that they couldn't really travel everywhere cuz not many rails in Java at the time were strong enough to hold an engine like the DD51. The DD50 only runs till the 1930s due to high maintenance cost, and a broken frame. The DD51 surived till the 1960s with some overhaul in the 1930s to help them perfomed well a bit)
@@IIIIIIlllllllIIILLL There were lots of steam locomotives that were the best for their work. As for the biggest, DD52 gains that name. CC50 is considered a medium sized locomotive by many engine crew.
If you think the UAC turbo looks strange, go ahead and have a look at the dutch NS Intercity "Koploper"... specifically pre-revision models from the late '90s to mid-xx's
Engineering issues aside, I actually think those trains look quite cool. I’m also a sucker for any kind of fancy mechanical systems (like the gangway connection on these ones) so I kinda like them as a concept
Ah, the Class 17. Or as i know it; Derek, the new diesel from the Double Teething Troubles episode of Thomas & Friends series 5. Sadly the poor guy never appeared again, aside from a random appearance in a musical segment He seemed like a nice diesel, it's only his crappy engine that let him down.
The NZR 88-seat railcars suffered from the parsimony for which New Zealanders are notorious. It's clear that the brief for Drewry was "make it cheap". The Fiat engines were war surplus, intended for light tactical tanks which were cancelled in 1943. The Wilson 5-speed gearbox was as troublesome as the engine, and the bodies had lots of inaccessible places for combustible rubbish to collect, including discarded cigarettes in an age when smoking was almost compulsory. The overheating was due to the radiators being located in a pocket of still air, which didn't help cooling at all. They ended up as unpowered coaches, lingering in service into the 1980s.
88seat railcars, Fiat, or whatever you want to call them, probably got a bad rap because at the time it was a let's replace trains with buses...... One of these railcars has survived and is undergoing restoration but with a Cummins engine and mechanical components from a BR 150 sprinter. NZR is pronounced N zed R not Zee.
something you left out is that the 4D was a demonstration from Melbourne sent from here in Sydney and is based on our Tangara sets, one of the issues is that they had to swap out the regular standard gauge bogies and make them broad gauge and that Melbourne has a smaller loading gauge to us
Glad to see 4D got in, as it literally sucked. my next recommendation would be the VR W Class Diesel-Hydraulic Locomotive, they were generally unpopular with problems with ride quality, engine problems, etc.
6:31 That's the wrong James crash if you're referring to faulty brakes. The tar wagon crash was due to a heavy freight train pushing him down a hill in Dirty Objects/James In A Mess. His faulty wooden brakes incident was from Thomas And The Breakdown Train/Thomas Saves The Day. (Why do Americans always have to rename stuff?)
Ay yo EA202 is my local. A total of 10 sets were built, with each set being 4-car train set. So 40 car units in total, not 40 sets. They have indeed been running mostly fine since the refurbishment, now running on the newly electrified line between Jogja and Solo replacing the as-infamously-unreliable ME201 "Holec" DMUs.
Wait, the Holec DMU's were unreliable? (yeah I know when they were still EMU they're very unreliable, but damn I didn't know that the diesel version is very unreliable too)
The infamous 4D EMU set for PTC... it wasn't exactly original, rather a special build, based on an existing design on another city's network. The 4D was a Tangara aka T or G set for Sydney, redesigned for use in Melbourne. The main standards are Melbourne standardised on single level with three doors per side, in three car sets (usually paired, to make six); the 4D was a four car set, with two doors per side at the mezzanine level over the wheels with split level in-between. There are a great litany of massive differences between the existing Comeng (the rouned tube trains in the shared photos) and the 4D... but being purpose built for Melbourne rather than Sydney, it actually didn't have much cross compatible parts as you'd expect.... Sydney being standard gauge, and Melbourne being broad.
You forgot to mention that the T & G sets have been successfully operating on the Sydney electrified network since 1988, 4 years prior to the 4D creation. They were built by Goninan in Newcastle, big election stunt that killed off Comeng in NSW. The 4D train was not electrically compatible to work with the Comeng & Hitachi equipment in Melbourne. Another issue was that the loading gauge in Victoria is different to that in NSW, especially with a restricted overhead height which made the 4D unusable for alot of Melbourne's network. I still have a drivers operation handbook for the Tangara (T) set :)
@@markpusko2480 I realised that the 4D was electrically incompatible, as well as being a 4 car set, it also was non-standard in having Driving Trailers and Separate Motor Carriages... whereas from the 70's Melbourne's services consisted of Motor and Trailers in MTM configuration (the Hitachi's started as MTTM+DM) the 4D was a DMMD arrangement... I vaguely heard something about AC traction or was it a multiphase power controller (or some such electronic wizardry)....
2:40 funny you should say that;). With that very same paint scheme-DOT scheme with temporary visible Amtrak logo on the side, traveling public upon seeing that nose coming towards platform started calling it the "Easter egg".
By getting a class 17 into preservation, you do have tangible reminder of just how badly you can screw up a procurement process...! Ironically, the design that became the standard Type 1 loco (class 20) still has working examples 60yrs later.
4D - Double Deck Development & Demonstration. Before being scrapped for a period of time it was used as a set for a Melbourne based tv show. I just cant remember the name of it.
Can I recommend a train for this series? Because the Dutch Railways V250 (a.k.a. Fyra) is infamous in The Netherlands and Belgium for breaking down. (sometimes literally!)
I remember the NZR Fiat railcars well. Used to travel on them in the 70s, mainly Christchurch-Greymouth. Eye candy they were & seemed to conquer the Alps ok.
For your next video, I recommend checking out India’s XC Class, which were 4-6-2 “Pacific” type locomotives built by the Vulcan Foundry in Lancashire for the broad gauge lines in British India between 1928 and 1931. For a short description, basically they couldn’t reach the speeds that they were expected to go, which made the crews dislike them A LOT, And they shook a lot as well, which meant leading to cracks in the boilers and also getting motion fractures too. Eventually it became so BAD that during over an 11-year period of construction, an XB (one of the sub-classes of the XCs) was involved in an accident at Bihta in July 1937, which led to railway staff bringing in an investigation to solve the matter. Upon the Partition of India in 1947, 22 of the class went to Pakistan (Bangladesh), which left approximately 50 XCs in India. Soon, all of the class started being withdrawn in 1957, with the last being withdrawn in 1981. However though, Colin Garratt, a railway photographer and publisher, Said that there was an attempt to hide one (No.22251) from the scrapper’s torch by storing it inside a local shed to preserve it, But then was eventually discovered and scrapped the year above. Sorry if this comment was as short as you’d expect, It’s just there’s a lot of information to go through.
You forgot to mention another incident with the Turbo Train. in 1979, one of the trains caught fire not far from the town of Iroquois Ontario which was why VIA pull the other two train sets out of service
Interestingly at gare centrale in montreal several tracks used to be a dedicated workshop for the uac turbos called the turbo bay. It then was a workshop for the deux montagnes bombardier mr-90. Now i guess its gonna be used for the rem.
I think it's only right that D8568 is preserved. Let it be a reminder of one of British Rail's biggest mistakes and as a warning for all future locomotive commissions.
The problem with the 4D train was that it was required to be compatible with a Comeng train (the single deck train that you see in one of your pictures with much more primitive control and traction motor systems) - and as a result the 4D just had horrific issues - remember it is based on the Tangara design of Sydney - which was introduced in 1988 and still going strong - the most reliable train in the Sydney Trains fleet. They actually modified four lines to take the 4D and it wasn't that hard to modify the rest - but because of the compatibility failure they decided against going with more of them.
They were bloody decent trains,Ive had many a day trip on the twin-set railcars Christchurch to the west coast,and a return trip from Dunedin to Christchurch
Ah yes EA202 a.k.a i9000, often work in 2 set (8car) back then when it still working on regular route but yes AC start to blow hot air in some cars then they just assigned work in 1 set on a very short branch line. until they sent all to the factory for the refurbishment. the refurbishment is meant for them to be operating in the new Yogyakarta area commuter line. while most of the problem has been fixed, some failure still appearing like faulty door but not as bad as they were in Jakarta area (atleast until now)
I know Kit Spackman slightly- he developed the tilt system for the APT. The gas-turbine APT-E (experimental) train was tested at the Old Dalby test track which had a couple of Claytons on hand and he has a good story about one of them. The practice was to run the E-Train up and down the test track then shut the thirsty turbines down and use a Clayton to drag it back to the depot. On one occasion Kit was riding with the driver when smoke started belching from one of the engines. The driver sighed and said, "Hold on to this will you?" indicating the throttle (the throttle had to be held down while the train was moving- releasing it would trigger the Driver's Safety Device after a few seconds initiating an emergency stop). Once Kit had taken over the throttle the driver got up, found a fire extinguisher and, leaning out of the window as far as he could and holding the nozzle in the air intake, emptied it into the engine. He then retook his seat and they carried on. "Aren't you going to stop?" asked Kit. The driver scoffed. "If I stopped every time this bloody thing caught fire we'd never get anywhere". I believe they were tried on the Consett ore trains working in multiple. Astonishingly this did not go well. The preserved example is apparently quite reliable. I dare say a combination of scrupulous maintenance and a fairly light workload helps.
Ladies and gentlemen, there is some bad news and some good news. The bad news is, the train has broken down. The good news is, we are not at 30,000 feet.
To say the least, KRL Commuterline's EA202 series replaced the built domestically the EA201 series... But wait, there's more! It's even in the same shape as it's predecessor, the EA201. As of right now the Kereta Api Indonesia has no demand for domestic EMUs since they import the Japanese withdrawn EMUs from JR (Series 203 and 205), Tokyo Metro (Series 05, 6000 and 7000) and Tokyu (Series 8000 and 8500)...
I would argue that there is a train even worser than the i9000. That is, the INKA ED101, commonly called BN-Holec based of the manufacturer's name. Unlike the older Japanese-made rheostatics, which were generally lightweight, this train is an heavy-ass train, and the VVVF technology used at the time was simply too advanced for us to maintain. Sure enough, many of the trainsets were retired SHORTLY after being delivered, and even the surviving ones suffered from frequent breakdowns simply from overloading (and ironically towed by the older trainsets while they're being overloaded themselves lmao), and also from poor maintenance and infrastructures. Although after end of their service in 2013, many would be then converted into DEMUs for commuters outside Jakarta, so they're sorta useful after being dead.
I'm new and trying to catch up on your videos. In your worst series have you done the Westinghouse - Baldwin gas turbine "Blue Goose"? This was an engine no one wanted. Every railroad passed on it. When it went back to Westinghouse even they didn't want it. They chopped it up for scrap.
Ah yes, Melbourne's paraplegic clone of the NSW Tangara Trainset. That's another thing you review for your "Best of" List. The Tangara's were revolutionary and some of the best passenger sets on Sydney Suburban lines. also the first Multiple Units with Aircon
"You wanna order a car? Oh, wait. You gotta order A HUNDRED OF THEM first. Also you can't test drive them." I mean.............. that's literally what Tesla has done with every single one of their new models, and we're only now learning how bad their badly-misbranded "Autopilot" system is. 😅
The Clayton's aka the class, 17 is a dead ringer for the N Z.R DSC diesel shunter, which did sterling work on the new Zealand rail network the spin off these locos were the DSG and D S J.
A few Clayton's had Rolls-Royce engines, and were a LOT better than the others. But a few do not a viable class make, and thus were withdrawn with the other ones.
What could go wrong building a version of the Sydney suburban system Tangara MUs for Melbourne suburban lines 5 ft 3 in tracks? For the Turbos, C&O's design was a much smaller turret cab, not the dome area UA designed. And it may not have been meant to run with gas turbine engines. Trains magazine April 1959 issue, Who Shot the Passenger Train, included a short article comparing the C&O design with a typical conventional consist at the time.
The Class 17 Claytons were so terrible even y BR standards that they have quite a fan club in the UK. Something to do with the British love of an underdog probably. This is the reason why one was saved and also explains why some people are rebuilding a Class 37 (good loco) into a Class 22 (so bad the scrapped them all).
Man. Derek’s basis really did get the short end of the stick.
Eventually you’ll run out of crappy British Railways locomotives and not have to roast them anymore. Hang in there Darkness
That's why we have Great British Railways comming online in '23.
The ride never ends mates!
Instead, he'll just have the post-privatisation classes like the 800 and the 180 that are "British Rail" in name only, apparently!
I hope Part 16 will be free to the public soon, i'm liking all of these...
...particularly the British Rail segments, they're hilarious.
British rail made a double decker train. It went about as well as you'd expect. Also please have a look at the BR class 91 HST. It's one of our best trains
the southern 4DDs that you refer to were oliver bulleid, not british rail, they were just introduced after nationalisation. they also ran in service for more than 20 years so yeah it did go as well as you expect if you expected them to actually have a decent service life
@@Trainman10715 Yes they did run for more than 20 years but there was a reason only 2 total were ever made. They were made to increase capacity which they did very well at, they were also made so that the platforms wouldnt have to be extended from 8 to 10 car train capacity on the route they served. But the way they were designed meant they had to wait longer at stations because they had double the amount of passengers boarding and exiting them through roughly the same number of doors a normal train has. Not to mention the cracking and stinky feet issues. After about 2 years they discontinued making the 4DD because of the issues they had and ended up having to extend the platforms on the line anyway in the end. So yeah, they stayed in service for a good amount of time but so did the pacers :)
@@garysimmonds1439 they weren't ever intended as full production trains, they were always experimental, that's why 2 were built, to test if the idea was practical. Once they found out it wasn't practical it was discontinued and even then served for a surprisingly long time for a class of only 2. The pacers have nothing to do with this, the pacers remained in service for so long because they were incredibly good at doing what they were designed for and were loved by the operating companies for how cheap they were to run and maintain, along with their excellent reliability and simplicity making them quick to repair, they were damn sight more reliable than the trains that replaced them. The 4DDs on the other hand were never that good at what they were designed for
@@garysimmonds1439 they didn't "discontinue making them after two years", they built two units - a single 8 car train with approximately the same capacity as a 10 car conventional one - for testing purposes. And the testing showed that while the trains worked mechanically - they were pretty standard in that respect - the disadvantages of the packaging (not double decker, by the way, as other people have commented) outweighed its advantages. That's what you build test units FOR, to test things.
91 is the InterCity 225, HST is only the InterCity 125 (Class 43 and maybe the prototype 41)
Ah, yes. The BR Class 17 aka Claytons. Arguably, BR's biggest lemon. Surprised this one didn't come up sooner.
Thing is I already knew that. Due to one particular class 17 called Derek
no the biggest lemon was privatisation and selling off things like the the test centre at derby where they could of worked out why the class 800s are cracking so bad
Ironically for all that was bad about BR the system of throw enough shit at the wall somehow worked
So true the big lemon 🍋
Additionally for the Claytons, to contextualise how bad they actually were, it was standard British Rail Procedure to hang out the cab door while in motion with a fire extinguisher in order to extinguish a fire in the electrical box
The 4D was such a lemon, and despite that it’s one of my favourite trains of all time. I just love it’s design!
There’s a similar tale from Melbourne’s PTC, the Refurbished Harris trains.
There were 2, one was just a repaint of an existing Victorian Railways harris train into PTC “The Met” colours, and the other one was a complete rebuild. The channel MetroManMelbourne has a fantastic video about it.
Also it’s pronounced “mElbn”, a lot of people get that wrong don’t worry.
I recently discovered your channel and love everything about it!
Thank you so much!!
Running multiple TH-cam channels most take a-lot out of you darkness. Don’t push your shelf to hard dude.
You have 1D trains which go along a single line with no deviations
You have 2D trains are on railroads with switches changing either elevation or horizontal position.
You have 3D trains which have switches changing both horizontal and vertical positions.
You have 4D trains which-
Ah I know this one, isn't this the rail operators that took over since the privatisation of British Rail that operate services where an MU (either diesel or electric) with too few carriages/coaches for the average number of users for that service, working on the principle of "they're bigger inside than they look" like Dr Who's Tardis ------ lol.
One more thing about the turbo. Via loved the turbo and the crews who looked after it in the so called "Turbo pit" and were extremely dedicated to her.
Yess, my request for History in the Dark to add the KFW has succeeded
Nice mate!
I didn't even know the KFW has all this problem... Thanks!
The class 17 is so bad, there is a Thomas the tank engine episode dedicated to them being terrible
Yea, friggin' Derek. Boco had to come rescue him. The irony was strong in that episode.
To be fair he was a good character. I wish they had used him more.
The Class 17 was supposed to the new standard Type 1 locomotive for BR, but it was equipped with 2 types prime movers the utterly unreliable Paxman 6ZHXL and the more reliable RR Type D. Not only were there were 2 type of prime movers they were fitted with 2 types of multiple working equipment. Those built by Clayton were fitted with the system coded by BR by a Red Diamond, and those built by Beyer Peacock were fitted with the common system coded Blue Square. Hardly standardised.
can I recommend another Indonesian Train for this? Especialy the steam engines cuz.. We do have some troublesome steam engines here. The mostly known were the C53 pacifics which was a 4 cylinder compound (a nightmare to maintained for workers, a very high repair cost, and would swayed violently when the engine reaches 90 kph, sometimes.) And 2 Alco Mallets numbered DD50 and DD51 (both engines were known for a high coal consumptions, only reached 40 kph when the Dutch East Indies Railways at the time wanted them to reach 50, and the DD51 were so heavy that they couldn't really travel everywhere cuz not many rails in Java at the time were strong enough to hold an engine like the DD51. The DD50 only runs till the 1930s due to high maintenance cost, and a broken frame. The DD51 surived till the 1960s with some overhaul in the 1930s to help them perfomed well a bit)
I bet CC206 isn't as good
@@ebtv445 the CC206s were pretty good actualy and powerful aswell
What's The Best Steam In Indonesia?
I l
I Know the largest is DD52 or CC50
@@IIIIIIlllllllIIILLL There were lots of steam locomotives that were the best for their work. As for the biggest, DD52 gains that name. CC50 is considered a medium sized locomotive by many engine crew.
my man roastin' british rail left, right and centre
Against his will, but blame BR, he hates them, the Brits hate them, everyone does. They produced these miserable sods, so they deserve this.
If you think the UAC turbo looks strange, go ahead and have a look at the dutch NS Intercity "Koploper"... specifically pre-revision models from the late '90s to mid-xx's
Engineering issues aside, I actually think those trains look quite cool. I’m also a sucker for any kind of fancy mechanical systems (like the gangway connection on these ones) so I kinda like them as a concept
Also thanks for bring nzr into the spotlight!
next is the DL class
@@thepolishnz yup i hate the DL's lmao
Ah, the Class 17. Or as i know it; Derek, the new diesel from the Double Teething Troubles episode of Thomas & Friends series 5.
Sadly the poor guy never appeared again, aside from a random appearance in a musical segment
He seemed like a nice diesel, it's only his crappy engine that let him down.
Metropolitan Vickers Co-Bo (Class 28) deserves a place in your next list if you haven't already done it. Unique and deservedly so.
He already did them
@@ridmakondasinghe3369 So did Hornby. I think.
Idk
The NZR 88-seat railcars suffered from the parsimony for which New Zealanders are notorious. It's clear that the brief for Drewry was "make it cheap". The Fiat engines were war surplus, intended for light tactical tanks which were cancelled in 1943. The Wilson 5-speed gearbox was as troublesome as the engine, and the bodies had lots of inaccessible places for combustible rubbish to collect, including discarded cigarettes in an age when smoking was almost compulsory. The overheating was due to the radiators being located in a pocket of still air, which didn't help cooling at all. They ended up as unpowered coaches, lingering in service into the 1980s.
88seat railcars, Fiat, or whatever you want to call them, probably got a bad rap because at the time it was a let's replace trains with buses......
One of these railcars has survived and is undergoing restoration but with a Cummins engine and mechanical components from a BR 150 sprinter.
NZR is pronounced N zed R not Zee.
something you left out is that the 4D was a demonstration from Melbourne sent from here in Sydney and is based on our Tangara sets, one of the issues is that they had to swap out the regular standard gauge bogies and make them broad gauge and that Melbourne has a smaller loading gauge to us
Glad to see 4D got in, as it literally sucked. my next recommendation would be the VR W Class Diesel-Hydraulic Locomotive, they were generally unpopular with problems with ride quality, engine problems, etc.
I always love these, they’re very entertaining
Fifteen episodes, each talking about five locomotives.
That's SEVENTY-FIVE so far!
That's a LOT of bad trains.
6:31 That's the wrong James crash if you're referring to faulty brakes. The tar wagon crash was due to a heavy freight train pushing him down a hill in Dirty Objects/James In A Mess. His faulty wooden brakes incident was from Thomas And The Breakdown Train/Thomas Saves The Day. (Why do Americans always have to rename stuff?)
He wasn't referring to what awful brakes did cause, he was trying to make the point about they could cause
Ay yo EA202 is my local. A total of 10 sets were built, with each set being 4-car train set. So 40 car units in total, not 40 sets. They have indeed been running mostly fine since the refurbishment, now running on the newly electrified line between Jogja and Solo replacing the as-infamously-unreliable ME201 "Holec" DMUs.
Wait, the Holec DMU's were unreliable? (yeah I know when they were still EMU they're very unreliable, but damn I didn't know that the diesel version is very unreliable too)
The infamous 4D EMU set for PTC... it wasn't exactly original, rather a special build, based on an existing design on another city's network. The 4D was a Tangara aka T or G set for Sydney, redesigned for use in Melbourne. The main standards are Melbourne standardised on single level with three doors per side, in three car sets (usually paired, to make six); the 4D was a four car set, with two doors per side at the mezzanine level over the wheels with split level in-between. There are a great litany of massive differences between the existing Comeng (the rouned tube trains in the shared photos) and the 4D... but being purpose built for Melbourne rather than Sydney, it actually didn't have much cross compatible parts as you'd expect.... Sydney being standard gauge, and Melbourne being broad.
You forgot to mention that the T & G sets have been successfully operating on the Sydney electrified network since 1988, 4 years prior to the 4D creation. They were built by Goninan in Newcastle, big election stunt that killed off Comeng in NSW. The 4D train was not electrically compatible to work with the Comeng & Hitachi equipment in Melbourne. Another issue was that the loading gauge in Victoria is different to that in NSW, especially with a restricted overhead height which made the 4D unusable for alot of Melbourne's network. I still have a drivers operation handbook for the Tangara (T) set :)
@@markpusko2480 I realised that the 4D was electrically incompatible, as well as being a 4 car set, it also was non-standard in having Driving Trailers and Separate Motor Carriages... whereas from the 70's Melbourne's services consisted of Motor and Trailers in MTM configuration (the Hitachi's started as MTTM+DM) the 4D was a DMMD arrangement... I vaguely heard something about AC traction or was it a multiphase power controller (or some such electronic wizardry)....
@@markpusko2480 I think they had to dig out the trackbed of platforms 1, 2, and 3 at Flinders Street Station to fit the 4D under the main concourse.
The Turbos went on to serving the public until the early 1980s.
6:31-6:47 The way that you said that was hilarious.
2:40 funny you should say that;). With that very same paint scheme-DOT scheme with temporary visible Amtrak logo on the side, traveling public upon seeing that nose coming towards platform started calling it the "Easter egg".
By getting a class 17 into preservation, you do have tangible reminder of just how badly you can screw up a procurement process...! Ironically, the design that became the standard Type 1 loco (class 20) still has working examples 60yrs later.
4D - Double Deck Development & Demonstration. Before being scrapped for a period of time it was used as a set for a Melbourne based tv show. I just cant remember the name of it.
I love it that there's no steam locomotive in this part.
Can I recommend a train for this series? Because the Dutch Railways V250 (a.k.a. Fyra) is infamous in The Netherlands and Belgium for breaking down. (sometimes literally!)
He already did that in Part 6 of the series
Bro we need to get this legend to 100k subs ASAP
I remember the NZR Fiat railcars well. Used to travel on them in the 70s, mainly Christchurch-Greymouth. Eye candy they were & seemed to conquer the Alps ok.
Sometimes they're overheating on their AC box you can call them air conditioner boxes
"They collaborated with Bombardier" Well there's your problem...
Don’t worry, Darkness, the BR onslaught will be over soon. I hope.
For your next video, I recommend checking out India’s XC Class, which were 4-6-2 “Pacific” type locomotives built by the Vulcan Foundry in Lancashire for the broad gauge lines in British India between 1928 and 1931.
For a short description, basically they couldn’t reach the speeds that they were expected to go, which made the crews dislike them A LOT,
And they shook a lot as well, which meant leading to cracks in the boilers and also getting motion fractures too. Eventually it became so BAD that during over an 11-year period of construction, an XB (one of the sub-classes of the XCs) was involved in an accident at Bihta in July 1937, which led to railway staff bringing in an investigation to solve the matter.
Upon the Partition of India in 1947, 22 of the class went to Pakistan (Bangladesh), which left approximately 50 XCs in India.
Soon, all of the class started being withdrawn in 1957, with the last being withdrawn in 1981. However though, Colin Garratt, a railway photographer and publisher,
Said that there was an attempt to hide one (No.22251) from the scrapper’s torch by storing it inside a local shed to preserve it, But then was eventually discovered and scrapped the year above. Sorry if this comment was as short as you’d expect, It’s just there’s a lot of information to go through.
You forgot to mention another incident with the Turbo Train. in 1979, one of the trains caught fire not far from the town of Iroquois Ontario which was why VIA pull the other two train sets out of service
Interestingly at gare centrale in montreal several tracks used to be a dedicated workshop for the uac turbos called the turbo bay. It then was a workshop for the deux montagnes bombardier mr-90. Now i guess its gonna be used for the rem.
6:00 That's a freaking HUGE snowdrift! O_O
Bom-Bar-De-Aye....
Every time us Americans "Bom-Bar-Deer" a French Person in Canada develops a stomach ulser.
13:31 you forgot to mention they were based of the NSW Tangara T/G sets
Me watching this video: well this will be good
My tablet: are you sure about that
My FPS: 1 per second
Running 30 mins late sounds like a good day for rail in NZ
I think it's only right that D8568 is preserved. Let it be a reminder of one of British Rail's biggest mistakes and as a warning for all future locomotive commissions.
素晴らしい鉄道動画！
Greeting from Japan.
🐾😁😁👍🙌💓💓💕
💕🐾😊😊😍😍👏😀
Hell yeah Derek still lives!
The 4D is a modified Tangara EMU used in Sydney
Was the Class 17 the base for the Diesel engine used in the Thomas episode “Teething Troubles?”
*Double
Yes it was
Looks like Australia’s very own Victorian Railway The Met train 4D will make an appearance
Ah yes, the 4D, I still have no idea what they thought they were doing trying to make that thing work
They thought putting a g set in Melbourne was a good idea
Has Darkness done the 1958 Harris sets yet? (For good or ill, as I know opinion is split on them)
@@robertwilloughby8050 no
That was my recommendation too lol.
I would like to nominate the Alstom Citadis Spirit as one of the worst trains in history.
Nice, got the kfw
Hey Darkness, here's an idea for you to branch out with. 5 Of the WORST CARS Ever.
You won't have British Rail, but in it's place will be a worse foe... British Leyland. (Rover, Austin, Austin-Healey, etc)
Maybe even a strange car list, so you'll need the Peel P50.
The problem with the 4D train was that it was required to be compatible with a Comeng train (the single deck train that you see in one of your pictures with much more primitive control and traction motor systems) - and as a result the 4D just had horrific issues - remember it is based on the Tangara design of Sydney - which was introduced in 1988 and still going strong - the most reliable train in the Sydney Trains fleet.
They actually modified four lines to take the 4D and it wasn't that hard to modify the rest - but because of the compatibility failure they decided against going with more of them.
They were bloody decent trains,Ive had many a day trip on the twin-set railcars Christchurch to the west coast,and a return trip from Dunedin to Christchurch
If you don't mind 200 series The ea 200 series is actually good 100 percent good you can really go fast
Ah yes EA202 a.k.a i9000, often work in 2 set (8car) back then when it still working on regular route but yes AC start to blow hot air in some cars then they just assigned work in 1 set on a very short branch line. until they sent all to the factory for the refurbishment. the refurbishment is meant for them to be operating in the new Yogyakarta area commuter line. while most of the problem has been fixed, some failure still appearing like faulty door but not as bad as they were in Jakarta area (atleast until now)
Traksi meledug:v
My hometown made the list. We still don't have double deckers lol
The 4D was a flop yet the neighboring state of NSW had their own called the Tangara and thats still in service to this day and very successful.
I know Kit Spackman slightly- he developed the tilt system for the APT. The gas-turbine APT-E (experimental) train was tested at the Old Dalby test track which had a couple of Claytons on hand and he has a good story about one of them.
The practice was to run the E-Train up and down the test track then shut the thirsty turbines down and use a Clayton to drag it back to the depot. On one occasion Kit was riding with the driver when smoke started belching from one of the engines. The driver sighed and said, "Hold on to this will you?" indicating the throttle (the throttle had to be held down while the train was moving- releasing it would trigger the Driver's Safety Device after a few seconds initiating an emergency stop). Once Kit had taken over the throttle the driver got up, found a fire extinguisher and, leaning out of the window as far as he could and holding the nozzle in the air intake, emptied it into the engine. He then retook his seat and they carried on.
"Aren't you going to stop?" asked Kit.
The driver scoffed. "If I stopped every time this bloody thing caught fire we'd never get anywhere".
I believe they were tried on the Consett ore trains working in multiple. Astonishingly this did not go well. The preserved example is apparently quite reliable. I dare say a combination of scrupulous maintenance and a fairly light workload helps.
I have a color photo of the turbo train being tested on the New Haven RR at the Boston South Station before Penn Central took over the New Haven RR
Rode on them in '69-70- boy, what a great train to ride on!
Hi darkness you should also search about worst trains in Indian Railways
Finally another Thomas character from br
It's funny the 4D was so bad because the New South Wales version - Tangarra - is still a good and decent runner in Sydney XD
The 4D from what I know was a former Sydney Trains G set Tangara converted to the 4D
Ladies and gentlemen, there is some bad news and some good news.
The bad news is, the train has broken down.
The good news is, we are not at 30,000 feet.
Worth saying that the spansh S700 is sort of a spiritual sucessor to the turbo train, using a lot of the same ideas
Degrees C are used in Indonesia , however as many viewers live Stateside, that’s about 42 C.
To say the least, KRL Commuterline's EA202 series replaced the built domestically the EA201 series... But wait, there's more! It's even in the same shape as it's predecessor, the EA201. As of right now the Kereta Api Indonesia has no demand for domestic EMUs since they import the Japanese withdrawn EMUs from JR (Series 203 and 205), Tokyo Metro (Series 05, 6000 and 7000) and Tokyu (Series 8000 and 8500)...
I would argue that there is a train even worser than the i9000. That is, the INKA ED101, commonly called BN-Holec based of the manufacturer's name. Unlike the older Japanese-made rheostatics, which were generally lightweight, this train is an heavy-ass train, and the VVVF technology used at the time was simply too advanced for us to maintain. Sure enough, many of the trainsets were retired SHORTLY after being delivered, and even the surviving ones suffered from frequent breakdowns simply from overloading (and ironically towed by the older trainsets while they're being overloaded themselves lmao), and also from poor maintenance and infrastructures. Although after end of their service in 2013, many would be then converted into DEMUs for commuters outside Jakarta, so they're sorta useful after being dead.
Suffering from internal fires...so they WERE steam engines.
H I S F I R E B O X W A S O N F I R E
@@bigtrainguythore ha ha I hated that episode
NS class SM '90 Railhopper, they were terrible. Food for another video.
I'm new and trying to catch up on your videos. In your worst series have you done the Westinghouse - Baldwin gas turbine "Blue Goose"? This was an engine no one wanted. Every railroad passed on it. When it went back to Westinghouse even they didn't want it. They chopped it up for scrap.
Ah yes, Melbourne's paraplegic clone of the NSW Tangara Trainset. That's another thing you review for your "Best of" List. The Tangara's were revolutionary and some of the best passenger sets on Sydney Suburban lines. also the first Multiple Units with Aircon
Severn, in this case, is pronounced like seven the number.....I don't know why
Agreed, possibly people say 7 as it's easier than severrrn but if you're reading a name phonetically the name does suggest the rrrn version.
"Fix It Again, Tony" applied to trains, too?
I suggested the class 17, cool
Maybe start using the "Ferret and Dartboard" British Railways logo...
NOOO NOT THE 4D (because we have tangaras where I live)
"You wanna order a car? Oh, wait. You gotta order A HUNDRED OF THEM first. Also you can't test drive them."
I mean.............. that's literally what Tesla has done with every single one of their new models, and we're only now learning how bad their badly-misbranded "Autopilot" system is. 😅
The Clayton's aka the class, 17 is a dead ringer for the N Z.R
DSC diesel shunter, which did sterling work on the new Zealand rail network the spin off these locos were the DSG and D S J.
Will see if Rapido re-release of the Turbo is any better than the first🚅🚃🚃🇨🇦🇺🇲🙋
A few Clayton's had Rolls-Royce engines, and were a LOT better than the others. But a few do not a viable class make, and thus were withdrawn with the other ones.
I actually like the BR class 17 "Claytons"
Fight me!
How dare you insult the Turbo, a beautiful piece of engineering!
Would the C&O class M1 count for one of these lists?
What could go wrong building a version of the Sydney suburban system Tangara MUs for Melbourne suburban lines 5 ft 3 in tracks?
For the Turbos, C&O's design was a much smaller turret cab, not the dome area UA designed. And it may not have been meant to run with gas turbine engines. Trains magazine April 1959 issue, Who Shot the Passenger Train, included a short article comparing the C&O design with a typical conventional consist at the time.
At 13:35 only 1 was put into service I think
Darkness at 6:43
what could possibly go wrong?
You should put the chesapeake and ohio railways M-1 to the next video of bad trains.
the 4D it was only 1 and as you said it never worked
You should make a video about the Soham rail disaster in England
The Class 17 Claytons were so terrible even y BR standards that they have quite a fan club in the UK. Something to do with the British love of an underdog probably. This is the reason why one was saved and also explains why some people are rebuilding a Class 37 (good loco) into a Class 22 (so bad the scrapped them all).
Why did you not mention That The 4D Trains were based on the Tangara train
INKA mean : industri kereta api , or Train industry in english .
( pardon me for bad english :)
Always enjoyable.
Were my name spelt in the old way, I'd apologise personally for the BR Class 17 Claytons.