Why hasn't someone designed these to be a real window unit. Seems like a no brainer. Nice video! Been on the fence if we want one or not for converted garage.
@@davidmcfatridge it's the differential that it creates so it draws outside air in. If your house is "leaky" it makes it worse because more are can be easily drawn in :)
Good info. I'm trying to learn all this to get away from the price gouging grid and no expert on electrical or solar, but Isn't a solar charge controller that has adjustable settings a better choice rather than this non adjustable buck converter?
@@UnitedWeStand2020 for a permanent installation, I wouldn't use the setup you see here. This is an example of simple parts that you can have on hand for power outages or emergencies. The idea with this setup is to be very low cost and extremely simple. If someone picked up a solar panel on FB marketplace, a buck converter and heater from Amazon and had a boat or car battery laying around, they could have this up and running in an emergency at very little cost. I also recommend having the panel and buck converter to use for charging or running veriouse items (like USB powered items with an additional adaptor) so they are items I recommend having on hand for other reasons anyway.
@WayneP1973 yes, mppt is more efficient and the angle could be better. The concept is CHEAP, SIMPLE and FAST. The panel is significantly overpowered which negates the need for perfect angle and supper efficient charging. Buck converters are 85%+ efficient which is not far from mppt.
Hi Ryan - be careful with the buck converter case touching the positive post of the battery - the buck converter case is likely grounded and if so would be a dead short. I know you said it was for an emergency basis, but recommend some fusing for overcurrent protection.
One more thought - you might differentiate the air intakes. One is combustion air intake and the other is heated air intake - for those who may not be familiar with these heaters.
Thanks for the video. So to not disturb the air pressure inside, does the air intake always have to take air from the outside? Under what circumstances can you have the air intake on the inside without creating negative or positive pressure?
If the air intake is inside the space and the exhaust is vented out, it will always create negative pressure. That's not to say that you can't set it up that way, it's just that it will reduce efficiency.
Diesel heaters are not particularly efficient - about 70%. Also the rating of these units is deceptive. An 8KW unit actually outputs only about 3KW of heat - equivalent to about 10,000BTU. However you do have it installed correctly - heating inside air and not heating outside air! Many I have seen in Youytube vids have their heated air intake outside!
Yeah, I won't be surprised if a large chunk of that remaining 30% is lost through the combustion exhaust (that pipe gets really hot!). But the heater gives me a lot more output/$ than propane or K1 without any off smell either. I'm not sure how they come up with the 8kw rating because you are right 3kw-5kd is much closer to their output.
Do not pull intake air from the room you're trying to heat. Pulling inside air and exhausting outside creates negative pressure in the room. That pulls the cold outside air in, along with exhaust fumes you're sending outside
I'm trying understand where someone would have solar panels...but not have a proper solar charge controller (SCC). Buck converters are not charge controllers, although that's essentially what you're using this one for, in addition to powering a load. The battery is there to smooth out the intermittency of the incoming voltage. While this is an interesting experiment in what "can" be done, it is by no means the best implementation of technology. The only time you would use this configuration is if you don't have a SCC. You're using a buck converter to do two things it really isn't optimized to do (charge a battery and power a load using an intermittent power source). You'd be better off with just a SCC and a battery, with the diesel heater wired directly to the battery. The solution you're using is actually more complicated and less efficient. I guess if that's all you have, then it works, but how realistic is that?
Unfortunately, I'd need to stockpile another fuel, which I'm not interested in doing. I contacted the company that makes the diesel heaters and they can't burn kerosene, which is too bad for me.
@@spockmcoyissmart961 they are not rated to burn kerosene, but I'd be shocked if it didn't work. I'm not suggesting anyone try it, just saying that due to its similarity to diesel and the fact that people are succesfully running used motor or oil through these things, it would be very surprising if kerosene wouldn't work.
What 40ah per night i run 2 of these heating my house I have two marine batteries 100 amp hour on power level five on my heaters then batteries last 4 days without recharge with a 6 amp trickle charger keep in mind I'm not using the lifep04 I'm using lead acid batteries eventually they'll be converted over to my solar system and 1 never pulling the wattage or ah pernight like u
lead acid batteries stay healthy when they can be fully charged often. When the battery gets near full the charging input is wasted as heat and only a small amount goes into the battery for charging. If you can't supply the needed charging power your battery will never reach full and the battery will degrade. To get full charge the quickest charge at 14.6 volts and maintain that for a couple hours before dropping to a float charge of 13.8 volts.
@@uhjyuff2095 sure, but charging it to 13.8 and floating it there isn't going to harm it in any meaningful way. Your talking perfect, I'm talking functional for an emergency.
Kindly comment on using a 100Ah LIFEPO4 battery instead of lead acid. Upside is that it can discharge almost 100%, nearly doubling the duration of battery power without recharge. Downsides are slightly greater cost for a LIFEPO4 vs lead acid battery, the LIFEPO4 need for a solar charge controller (possibly MPPT) at greater cost than a buck converter to recharge a lead acid battery from a solar panel, and a LIFEPO4-compatible AC-DC battery charger which is more costly than your small lead acid plug-in charger. The greater LIFEPO4 costs buy nearly 2 days of additional diesel heater run time if grid power is down for an extended time & the sun doesn’t shine due to a storm which knocks out grid power. If a LIFEPO4 battery is technically feasible, the question becomes the value of 4 days LifePO4 vs 2 days lead acid battery power for a diesel heater if the grid goes down & there’s no sun.
@@midchalet lifepo4 would be a great option but would require more thought and different components (like a properly rated charge mppt controller). What I am demonstrating is a simple setup for emergencies rather than a permanent install. Someone might have a boat or car battery sitting around and a buck converter is extremely simple to connect between just about any solar panel and a lead acid battery. So, yes a lofepo4 with a proper mppt charger would be a better choice for a permanent installation or if you had the extra cash and knowhow.
@ Thanks for the reply! I’m doing long-term installations in a number of locations. I’m pleased you agree LifePO4 is feasible. Those batteries have come down substantially in price. I noticed a small and supposedly reliable MPPT charge controller for $20. 5amp LifePO4 ac-dc chargers are also inexpensive. Because LifePO4 allows much greater discharge, I can nearly double battery backup duration with the same battery Ah rating That’s valuable when I am out of town. Another required upgrade is to a larger diesel tank which can be made from a portable boat tank or - more cheaply - from a $22 5g Midwest can. Thanks to your video, I have the basic design of a battery + solar double backup for my diesel heaters. Big help!
@midchalet do be careful with the cheap mppt chargers. Many if them aren't actually mppt. You will probably be closer to $100ish to get a legit mppt that can handle lifepo4 properly.
They have a Heavy start load. Ask me how i know. Better have a Heavy battery source. They soot up real bad unless they are on Hi. Get a Gas powered one, much cleaner & cheeper fuel cost .Diesel is way more expensive than gas. Make sure its an Better quality. Webasto is a Great brand.
what are you doing? that is NOT a charger. That is a buck converter and is NOT meant to be used like that. you can buy a $10 PWM that is better than that if you want cheap. A MPPT is what you should be using. I always wonder WHY people post videos that are not safe, and barely functional. It is not difficult or expensive to do what you're TRYING to do properly. This video is NOT instructional, it should be called "How I used crap around my house without regard for burning it down to power a diesel heater" Do better man, this is dangerous if anyone actually tries to follow this, and there is just no point when safer stuff is just as cheap. that thing will use a hell of a lot more than 12aH. this will not work
@@sNEAKYnIGHTmUPPET 13.8v buck converters are specifically designed to charge Lead Acid, AGM and Gell batteries from a veriety of DC voltage inputs. That is literally their purpose. Have you ever used one of the $10 pwm charge controllers? Because they often don't work at all or output drematically wrong voltages and I wouldn't trust them unattended (I've tested several and they are supper scetchy). A real and reliable mppt is quite a bit more expensive than a pwm or a buck converter (most of the super cheap "mppt" controllers are actually pwn controllers mislabled by scetchy manufacturers). And a mppt will require more setup and know how. Pwm are also very inefficient for this use case because I would be throwing away 75% of the energy that my panel produces (which you would know if you knew how they worked). Every buck converter I have tested on the other hand has been rock solid and worked exactly as it should. If it outputs the correct voltage at and is rated for more amps that I need, why do you think it can't be used to charge a battery??? The heater uses 1amp at 12volts (12 watts). Clearly you don't understand ohms law or how the calculations work to figure out amp hours, but, yes my heater does use 12ah of power from a 12v system over a 12hr period (not "way more" as you so scientifically state). The idea of this system and showing it is was not to suggest that it is the best or most correct way to set it up (it's not), it was to show how having a few simple things on hand can provide you with heat in a grid down situation (I thought that was pretty clear by the title, but here we are). Additionally, the choice of the buck converter with the solar panel is because there is a myriad of uses for this combination around a homestead for powering small loads without a battery which is something very useful for my audience and I will be delving into down the road. I don't mean to be rude, but you have clearly demonstrated that you do not know what you are talking about and can't run simple electrical calculations.
@@thehomesteadconsultant as an electrician I am very familiar with ohms law and it application. I have been for over 35 years now. I also live completely off grid, so none of this topic is foreign to me. To correct you again, buck converters are not chargers. the REASON they have them with a 13.8v output it to provide power to loads that require it. they have no current regulation and are not proper dc-dc converters.I dont recommend using a pwm, I was just stating that they are cheap and meant for charging unlike your buck controller. Why make a video like this? NO ONE is going to have one of those kicking around like you do for whatever reason, so they are going to have to buy something. at that point, buy the proper thing, that makes sense. Also, anyone watching your video isnt goign to have the smarts to do it safely so why instruct HOW to do somthing dangerous? makes no sense. You can't defend this videos content because it is aimed at those who don't know, and it "instructs" something that isn't safe, PERIOD. I would also say that charging lead batteries indoors is dangerous, do better and vent it outside. That heater is not MEANT to heat a house, it is meant to heat the Cab of a truck which is why it runs on diesel and 12v to start with. I am sure you thought that this was a good idea, but take it from someone thats been around the block and seen things, don't promote things like this as training, people are likely to try and replicate it.
@@sNEAKYnIGHTmUPPET a buck converter not being current controlled is a meaningless point. The battery can more than handle the amperage (which means the buck converter is providing a load) that the converter puts out and when it reaches float voltage on the battery it can't keep pushing current so it won’t over charge or do damage to the battery. It's a non-issue in this case, if you were charging batteries with a tighter voltage limit, or that are more vilitile, then you would have a point. The fact that the heater is made to heat a mobile vehicle doesn't matter either. If anything, they have to be MORE robust and safe for that application because the components would have to withstand the jostling of a vehicle (not while running of course). No they are not specifically made for use in a home, that does not mean that they can not be safely used to heat a small space or room. The only single safety point that you have directly mentioned that even makes sense is not using a lead acid battery in the house due to potential off gassing. Its unlikely to happen at 13.8v but it a good point that I hadn't thought of because I was trying to show the wiring in a way that would make sense. If you were concerned about safety it seems you would point out the lack of fuses or something more concrete than your non-propblems you've come up with. I also was very clear that what I was doing was not a fully proper configuration and that a similar setup would not be safe to try without a significant base knowledge of the systems being worked on. I also made clear in the title that this setup is a concept for one way to heat a space during a grid down or emergency situation, not a day to day installation to replace your HVAC. You're getting really tied up in knots about nothing.
Your videos are so informative and thorough. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Why hasn't someone designed these to be a real window unit. Seems like a no brainer. Nice video! Been on the fence if we want one or not for converted garage.
That would be great!
Nice project.
Wondering why you wouldn't use already heated air inside for input?
Oh I see "air pressure" , not a problem at my house 😂 it's not air tight anyway
@@davidmcfatridge it's the differential that it creates so it draws outside air in. If your house is "leaky" it makes it worse because more are can be easily drawn in :)
Good info. I'm trying to learn all this to get away from the price gouging grid and no expert on electrical or solar, but Isn't a solar charge controller that has adjustable settings a better choice rather than this non adjustable buck converter?
@@UnitedWeStand2020 for a permanent installation, I wouldn't use the setup you see here. This is an example of simple parts that you can have on hand for power outages or emergencies. The idea with this setup is to be very low cost and extremely simple. If someone picked up a solar panel on FB marketplace, a buck converter and heater from Amazon and had a boat or car battery laying around, they could have this up and running in an emergency at very little cost. I also recommend having the panel and buck converter to use for charging or running veriouse items (like USB powered items with an additional adaptor) so they are items I recommend having on hand for other reasons anyway.
Mppt charge controller would be more efficient. Your angle on your panel looks low.
@WayneP1973 yes, mppt is more efficient and the angle could be better. The concept is CHEAP, SIMPLE and FAST. The panel is significantly overpowered which negates the need for perfect angle and supper efficient charging. Buck converters are 85%+ efficient which is not far from mppt.
Hi Ryan - be careful with the buck converter case touching the positive post of the battery - the buck converter case is likely grounded and if so would be a dead short. I know you said it was for an emergency basis, but recommend some fusing for overcurrent protection.
@@joemontana4370 you are correct on both counts. There is a lot I would do differently in a permanent installation.
One more thought - you might differentiate the air intakes. One is combustion air intake and the other is heated air intake - for those who may not be familiar with these heaters.
Good point
Thanks for the video. So to not disturb the air pressure inside, does the air intake always have to take air from the outside? Under what circumstances can you have the air intake on the inside without creating negative or positive pressure?
If the air intake is inside the space and the exhaust is vented out, it will always create negative pressure.
That's not to say that you can't set it up that way, it's just that it will reduce efficiency.
Diesel heaters are not particularly efficient - about 70%. Also the rating of these units is deceptive. An 8KW unit actually outputs only about 3KW of heat - equivalent to about 10,000BTU. However you do have it installed correctly - heating inside air and not heating outside air! Many I have seen in Youytube vids have their heated air intake outside!
Yeah, I won't be surprised if a large chunk of that remaining 30% is lost through the combustion exhaust (that pipe gets really hot!). But the heater gives me a lot more output/$ than propane or K1 without any off smell either. I'm not sure how they come up with the 8kw rating because you are right 3kw-5kd is much closer to their output.
Do not pull intake air from the room you're trying to heat. Pulling inside air and exhausting outside creates negative pressure in the room. That pulls the cold outside air in, along with exhaust fumes you're sending outside
I'm trying understand where someone would have solar panels...but not have a proper solar charge controller (SCC). Buck converters are not charge controllers, although that's essentially what you're using this one for, in addition to powering a load. The battery is there to smooth out the intermittency of the incoming voltage. While this is an interesting experiment in what "can" be done, it is by no means the best implementation of technology. The only time you would use this configuration is if you don't have a SCC. You're using a buck converter to do two things it really isn't optimized to do (charge a battery and power a load using an intermittent power source). You'd be better off with just a SCC and a battery, with the diesel heater wired directly to the battery. The solution you're using is actually more complicated and less efficient. I guess if that's all you have, then it works, but how realistic is that?
Unfortunately, I'd need to stockpile another fuel, which I'm not interested in doing. I contacted the company that makes the diesel heaters and they can't burn kerosene, which is too bad for me.
@@spockmcoyissmart961 they are not rated to burn kerosene, but I'd be shocked if it didn't work. I'm not suggesting anyone try it, just saying that due to its similarity to diesel and the fact that people are succesfully running used motor or oil through these things, it would be very surprising if kerosene wouldn't work.
@@thehomesteadconsultant I run mine on Kerosene and it's no different than diesel, in fact if anything it's more efficient.
What 40ah per night i run 2 of these heating my house I have two marine batteries 100 amp hour on power level five on my heaters then batteries last 4 days without recharge with a 6 amp trickle charger keep in mind I'm not using the lifep04 I'm using lead acid batteries eventually they'll be converted over to my solar system and 1 never pulling the wattage or ah pernight like u
@@mrchief.-__-2051 I am definitely estimation high and giving a lot of margin, but you may have more efficient heaters than me.
lead acid batteries stay healthy when they can be fully charged often. When the battery gets near full the charging input is wasted as heat and only a small amount goes into the battery for charging. If you can't supply the needed charging power your battery will never reach full and the battery will degrade. To get full charge the quickest charge at 14.6 volts and maintain that for a couple hours before dropping to a float charge of 13.8 volts.
@@uhjyuff2095 sure, but charging it to 13.8 and floating it there isn't going to harm it in any meaningful way. Your talking perfect, I'm talking functional for an emergency.
Kindly comment on using a 100Ah LIFEPO4 battery instead of lead acid. Upside is that it can discharge almost 100%, nearly doubling the duration of battery power without recharge. Downsides are slightly greater cost for a LIFEPO4 vs lead acid battery, the LIFEPO4 need for a solar charge controller (possibly MPPT) at greater cost than a buck converter to recharge a lead acid battery from a solar panel, and a LIFEPO4-compatible AC-DC battery charger which is more costly than your small lead acid plug-in charger. The greater LIFEPO4 costs buy nearly 2 days of additional diesel heater run time if grid power is down for an extended time & the sun doesn’t shine due to a storm which knocks out grid power. If a LIFEPO4 battery is technically feasible, the question becomes the value of 4 days LifePO4 vs 2 days lead acid battery power for a diesel heater if the grid goes down & there’s no sun.
@@midchalet lifepo4 would be a great option but would require more thought and different components (like a properly rated charge mppt controller). What I am demonstrating is a simple setup for emergencies rather than a permanent install. Someone might have a boat or car battery sitting around and a buck converter is extremely simple to connect between just about any solar panel and a lead acid battery. So, yes a lofepo4 with a proper mppt charger would be a better choice for a permanent installation or if you had the extra cash and knowhow.
@ Thanks for the reply! I’m doing long-term installations in a number of locations. I’m pleased you agree LifePO4 is feasible. Those batteries have come down substantially in price. I noticed a small and supposedly reliable MPPT charge controller for $20. 5amp LifePO4 ac-dc chargers are also inexpensive. Because LifePO4 allows much greater discharge, I can nearly double battery backup duration with the same battery Ah rating That’s valuable when I am out of town. Another required upgrade is to a larger diesel tank which can be made from a portable boat tank or - more cheaply - from a $22 5g Midwest can. Thanks to your video, I have the basic design of a battery + solar double backup for my diesel heaters. Big help!
@midchalet do be careful with the cheap mppt chargers. Many if them aren't actually mppt. You will probably be closer to $100ish to get a legit mppt that can handle lifepo4 properly.
They have a Heavy start load. Ask me how i know. Better have a Heavy battery source. They soot up real bad unless they are on Hi. Get a Gas powered one, much cleaner & cheeper fuel cost .Diesel is way more expensive than gas. Make sure its an Better quality. Webasto is a Great brand.
Baga și traducere in Romana...
what are you doing? that is NOT a charger. That is a buck converter and is NOT meant to be used like that. you can buy a $10 PWM that is better than that if you want cheap. A MPPT is what you should be using.
I always wonder WHY people post videos that are not safe, and barely functional. It is not difficult or expensive to do what you're TRYING to do properly.
This video is NOT instructional, it should be called "How I used crap around my house without regard for burning it down to power a diesel heater"
Do better man, this is dangerous if anyone actually tries to follow this, and there is just no point when safer stuff is just as cheap. that thing will use a hell of a lot more than 12aH. this will not work
@@sNEAKYnIGHTmUPPET 13.8v buck converters are specifically designed to charge Lead Acid, AGM and Gell batteries from a veriety of DC voltage inputs. That is literally their purpose. Have you ever used one of the $10 pwm charge controllers? Because they often don't work at all or output drematically wrong voltages and I wouldn't trust them unattended (I've tested several and they are supper scetchy). A real and reliable mppt is quite a bit more expensive than a pwm or a buck converter (most of the super cheap "mppt" controllers are actually pwn controllers mislabled by scetchy manufacturers). And a mppt will require more setup and know how. Pwm are also very inefficient for this use case because I would be throwing away 75% of the energy that my panel produces (which you would know if you knew how they worked). Every buck converter I have tested on the other hand has been rock solid and worked exactly as it should. If it outputs the correct voltage at and is rated for more amps that I need, why do you think it can't be used to charge a battery???
The heater uses 1amp at 12volts (12 watts). Clearly you don't understand ohms law or how the calculations work to figure out amp hours, but, yes my heater does use 12ah of power from a 12v system over a 12hr period (not "way more" as you so scientifically state).
The idea of this system and showing it is was not to suggest that it is the best or most correct way to set it up (it's not), it was to show how having a few simple things on hand can provide you with heat in a grid down situation (I thought that was pretty clear by the title, but here we are).
Additionally, the choice of the buck converter with the solar panel is because there is a myriad of uses for this combination around a homestead for powering small loads without a battery which is something very useful for my audience and I will be delving into down the road.
I don't mean to be rude, but you have clearly demonstrated that you do not know what you are talking about and can't run simple electrical calculations.
@@thehomesteadconsultant as an electrician I am very familiar with ohms law and it application. I have been for over 35 years now. I also live completely off grid, so none of this topic is foreign to me.
To correct you again, buck converters are not chargers. the REASON they have them with a 13.8v output it to provide power to loads that require it. they have no current regulation and are not proper dc-dc converters.I dont recommend using a pwm, I was just stating that they are cheap and meant for charging unlike your buck controller.
Why make a video like this? NO ONE is going to have one of those kicking around like you do for whatever reason, so they are going to have to buy something. at that point, buy the proper thing, that makes sense. Also, anyone watching your video isnt goign to have the smarts to do it safely so why instruct HOW to do somthing dangerous? makes no sense.
You can't defend this videos content because it is aimed at those who don't know, and it "instructs" something that isn't safe, PERIOD.
I would also say that charging lead batteries indoors is dangerous, do better and vent it outside.
That heater is not MEANT to heat a house, it is meant to heat the Cab of a truck which is why it runs on diesel and 12v to start with.
I am sure you thought that this was a good idea, but take it from someone thats been around the block and seen things, don't promote things like this as training, people are likely to try and replicate it.
@@sNEAKYnIGHTmUPPET a buck converter not being current controlled is a meaningless point. The battery can more than handle the amperage (which means the buck converter is providing a load) that the converter puts out and when it reaches float voltage on the battery it can't keep pushing current so it won’t over charge or do damage to the battery. It's a non-issue in this case, if you were charging batteries with a tighter voltage limit, or that are more vilitile, then you would have a point.
The fact that the heater is made to heat a mobile vehicle doesn't matter either. If anything, they have to be MORE robust and safe for that application because the components would have to withstand the jostling of a vehicle (not while running of course). No they are not specifically made for use in a home, that does not mean that they can not be safely used to heat a small space or room.
The only single safety point that you have directly mentioned that even makes sense is not using a lead acid battery in the house due to potential off gassing. Its unlikely to happen at 13.8v but it a good point that I hadn't thought of because I was trying to show the wiring in a way that would make sense.
If you were concerned about safety it seems you would point out the lack of fuses or something more concrete than your non-propblems you've come up with.
I also was very clear that what I was doing was not a fully proper configuration and that a similar setup would not be safe to try without a significant base knowledge of the systems being worked on. I also made clear in the title that this setup is a concept for one way to heat a space during a grid down or emergency situation, not a day to day installation to replace your HVAC.
You're getting really tied up in knots about nothing.