How to Improve Any Aftermarket Cylinder Head
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 พ.ย. 2022
- After purchasing my Edelbrock E street cylinder heads, I had them checked out before trying to bolt them on. The plan with the heads is to make 500 horsepower on a 10/1 compression stock stroke 400 big block Mopar.
The heads had several issues that needed correction before installation.
Ed @edsmachine93 gave these heads a full performance treatment including:
Polishing exhaust ports, polishing chambers, unshroudinf the valves, back cutting the valves, adding a multi angle valve job, and shaving the heads .010. Lastly, he Checked the CC’s in each head for comparison and to help figure my final compression ratio. - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
That is some beautiful work there joe , Ed's work is always above and beyond in my opinion and he really knows where to find horsepower and get the most out of something I think your going to have one stout motor, good luck with your build thanks for sharing this with us
Thanks Terry. Ed has all kinds of skills!
The deshrouding really helps, I was delighted that the MoPar Performance aluminum Magnum heads I bought already ported and prepped had that expertly done to them! The exhaust ports weren't as deluxe as my head porter does them, but still very nice. The flow numbers reflect it, too! Your heads look amazing Joe and kudos to Ed for another fantastic job!! RB
Thanks Rod
Those I think are rebadged RPM heads from Eddy
@@dang5553 I think you’re right. Slightly different spring rates I believe
Supposed to be the King of the American dream aftermarket of bolt on, horsepower and simplicity of the job for the money. I was a big fan of the day Victor Jr. intake of there's for years and now I have learned that you are not getting your money's worth. A investment like that and the work that you are having to do is mind blowing.
It’s true John. Remade in America now.
Looks good Brother! Going to make that 400 run!
Thanks Andy! Maybe have a better chance against the 👻
Nice work , all those cuts have got to make a substantial increase in flow .
Thanks Duncan. I’m proud of them.
Awesome extremely precise!
Thanks John. Nicest set I’ve ever owned.
Those head look great, really nice work yall did to them. That 400 will be a ripper!!
Thanks Dudman. Better than the tractor valve job I have on my 408. Should be an improvement!
Seems as though you will get some decent gain from "bolt on". Thanks Joe🤙
They’re finally ready to go. Just got to check a few things. I’ll video it!
Pulled the cork out of them quite a bit. Should make good all around power
Thanks brother
I really like watching Ed do his magic !!! Good stuff.
Thanks buddy
Here in Germany most machine shops take 300 Euros per hour so doing most by hand is the only way to go except you are restoring an Aston Martin or someting hyper exclusive. In Poland there are pretty decent affordable machine shops!
Great video Joe.
I really like the walk through and the editing.
I am excited for you.
Going to be nice.
Thanks for sharing Joe.
Take care, Ed.
Love seeing your work Ed!
@@ClintsStreetMachines Thanks Clint, I really appreciate you.
What Clint said!
Thanks for the dedication, Ed. I know you want to see me succeed!
@@JustMoparJoe I really do Joe.
Attention to detail is the key to at least 500 hp those heads look awesome now.😎
Thanks Shane! This chamber job looks like my Michigan heads, except they weigh 1/2 as much!
Loved watching Ed work his magic on those heads. Looks real good!!
Thanks John!
Patience . That is something You and Ed have in common . You both keep after it until it’s right !
Thanks Terry!
I'm glued to this build Joe. Planning my 400 so thanks for leading the way!
Thanks Clint! I think these are excellent street heads. I may have bought differently, if I had known I was trying this in the barracuda. However, these heads as they are, will stomp almost all the ported stock versions.
@@JustMoparJoe Good to know. I'm looking at the 440 source heads too.
The BIG advantage these heads have right off the bat vs. most other "budget" 440 style heads is the modern "Heart" chamber shape. Getting away from the old school ""Bathtub " shape puts these E street heads miles ahead of say a 440 source, Promaxx or 84cc Edelbrok RPM head. These came out beautifully Joe. Ed's attention to detail and his level of care when machining are impressive.
Thank you! He did really well on them. They have room left for porting, but are definitely well suited for this build.
Finally found a Mopar lover and someone who understands what it takes to squeeze a big block. The valve work is spot on and the heads beautiful. My first car back in 1975 was a 67 Coronet with a 383 and the car banged every gear like driving railroad spikes, been a fan ever since.
Awesome! Thanks for sharing and supporting the channel. These heads finally saw the racetrack Sunday. I’m editing part 1 now
@@JustMoparJoe Good luck & happy wrenchin!
Fantastic job ED !
For sure
I love seeing the product of Ed's work! Its always amazing what really F'ing good machinists can pull off and something tells me that the job he did on that set of heads wasn't even his top notch premium price work.
He does good work. Nothing half way
Ed is a dying breed…not many youths taking up the machinist trade. Thanks Ed for showing us what quality workmanship looks like!
Joe as always thanks for keeping it real!
You got this 500+HP!!
That’s a fact! Thanks Andy
Good video as always joe! I swear you teach me something new every video!
Thanks Ricky!
That 400 is going to rev like crazy. Can't wait to hear it. 💥
I hope to have it on my run stand by Christmas, and get y’all video by new year!
Those chambers are nice! Ed does some great work
Thanks Greg. I’m glad to have them and be able to see what they can do.
Good Stuff Joe! 👍
Thanks Ruben! Got some jewelry
Great work Ed.
He’s the man!
Ed does amazing work those heads turned out great. It’s sad what happened to edelbrock after Vic died bolt on ready is not so much a thing anymore
Well said, Rob!
Dropping off a pair of speedmaster heads at the machine shop tomorrow and this video pops up on my timeline tonight!! Thanks for the great video Joe my heads are probably gonna need a loooot of work done to them
Check this vid out! I haven’t owned a pair yet, but this is big INFO! th-cam.com/video/KQlpdBMO_9o/w-d-xo.htmlsi=FqTF-FyTger3t3ji
Yes I agree.
Deshrouding the valves is one of the best improvements you can make on a set of heads. Pocket bowl blending is another one.
Eric, idk if you saw in the initial video, but the bowls were oversized in some areas, from edelbrock. Ed had commented that she wished they’d left more material for there to be blended correctly.
that is real dedication to the craft. interesting to see.
Thanks Kim
Nice work on these heads Joe. Equalizing the chambers can only lead to max flow and the results will be more HP and torque. I love this build.
Thanks Mike! Got more done today. Hope to run it by new year
very nice joe!
Thanks brother. I’m excited to see how they do!
Those heads look legit now! 500hp shouldn't be a problem!
Thanks brother
Looks good Joe!
Thanks brother
that is a great job !!
Absolutely! Thanks for the support
Can't wait to hear it run
Thanks Tony! It should be a screamer!
Love to watch the machine work beautiful set of heads would fit perfectly on my 69 valiant 440 thanks for sharing
Thanks Ray
It's amazing in this day and age that much improving still needs to be done on brand new heads. Looking forward to seeing your 400 getting finished. Love your vids! I always liked to get the rotating assembly balanced, and get all the oil passages on the crank chamfered, and the heads nice and squared away like you did.
Thanks brother. Going back to it soon. Gaskets are ordered. Should be making noise before Christmas 🎅🏼
If it all came out of the box perfect the price for the heads would triple.
Great work done, I'm sure you will reach your target, aspecialy with those head's, I suppose those head's were within spec but they must have a large spec range, after seeing those head's, thanks for the update, can't wait to see it ripping down the track, all the best to you and your loved ones
Thanks Donald. Have a good week
You hit the nail right on the head there Joe. No matter who made the heads, or where those heads are made. Always order them Bare.
Like my machinist here said. They ALL need work, just some need more than others. Good stuff, and a big nod to Ed for the great work he did.
Thanks brother! Definite hats off to Ed for his work 👍🏼
Man those heads look beautiful!
Thanks Cley!
Great video. I'm about to test out some 440 Source heads (CNC ported version) in my Super Bee I'm building. Lots of time to get that car on the road. Did a nut and bolt and rotisserie restoration. I wanted Trick Flows or Edelbrocks, but during the pandemic, they were the only heads available, so here goes!
Good luck! I have absolutely thought about a pair that were prepped and ready by them. Please let me know how they work out
Those are looking nice.
Thanks buddy
Great video, Surprised to hear a Mopar guy say Joe Mondello.
Haha! Remember a big block Mopar head looks an awful lot like a SBC head
@@JustMoparJoe true, but mondello was the olds god.
Joe, I am JEALOUS...... The big question is, how much additional work, (time and money), ~V~ a set of AFR or other heads???
Very nice work on those heads.... I'd love to know what they flow!!
Thanks Steve! Ed was going to send them to Eric Weingartner and get them flowed, but I need to get this engine together and in the car before March.
I used some out of the box Edelbrock heads on my 440 for about 4 years had no trouble with the guides being too tight even though they probably were. And that included a 190 shot of nitrous about 80% of the time, I'm sure they would have been better with some prep but the ones I used were one of the very first sets available when they came out
Thanks for sharing, Thomas. These were a mid pandemic after they moved from California to Mississippi. I think QC has crapped out in some instances.
today Edelbrock sadly sucks I think since they were bought out by Comp quality went down the drain....get AFR, Brodix, Profiler or Trick Flow...
I'd like to have everything you've had done to those heads to my original 452's for my 400. I bet the difference would be amazing!!! Great job and Ed seems like he's the man....💯😎
Thanks James! About time to bolt them up!
@@JustMoparJoe you're welcome brother!! Let's see those power numbers!!!!💯😎
You bet I'll be following Joe.
Thanks Eric
Good stuff. Right where I’ve been living, as you know, although I admit you’re a little bit on the higher end of the financial scale from what I’m doing.😂😂
Great video. I am definitely enjoying this series.
Thanks Mike! I have plenty of parts, just not the ones that I need 😂
@@JustMoparJoe 😂😂😂 I get that.
nice job bro
Thanks brother
Can't wait to see that 400 in action.
Thanks brother
👍💪
Thanks brother
I used these same heads on my 500 build, I kinda wish I cleaned them up like you did.
How’s it run?
@@JustMoparJoe oh it runs awesome. Mild cam 484 lift and had to run HP manifolds (64 C body) no one makes a header… 500hp 540ft-lbs stroked to 500 cu.
@@tomcox2565 that’s great to hear! That sounds like the perfect engine for that combination.
I knew that you were going to get to this sooner or later. Awesome.
Thanks John! Hope to go over installation soon!
Very nice looking heads Joe. Just curious how much did the machine work cost you sir??
Thanks Jeff!
Think I'll be looking at some Aluminum small block heads sorta kinda soon.
Alright! Hopefully for the duster. You just missed the speedmaster Black Friday sale. They do it every year. Bare castings were around $300 each. I think an assembled pair is around $800! Definitely get them checked, but that’s every brand now.
@@JustMoparJoe im liking the idea of Trick Flows
@@HoosierGarage I would put them on a 340/360 block with the larger valves in them
It sounds good out of the box but doing port work and valve job is better when done by someone you trust. Quality ain't what it use to be , with bare heads you get better choice of valve train combo.
I thought about that for next time. Black Friday speedmaster sale. Check them out
Pretty
Definitely icing on the cake!
I'm not sure if I agree with leaving the intake ports slightly rough though. I personally like to take 400 grit sandpaper on the tip of my finger and mirror polish the intakes, as well as the exhaust ports, but that's just me...
Eric, to each his own. I’m not a flow bench guy. I’m a race track guy. It’d be cool to see a comparison out there e
Compound angles are impossible to do with a cutter. What I focus on is opening that combustion chamber intake clearance [from about 9 o'clock to 12] like a scroll housing, but as it goes around, it also has to lay back. The cutter here comes pretty close to a perfect: that 9-10 area generally demands some compromises, either caused by gasket choice or core shift.
Guide hone? I'm more happy to see those arrive a touch tight than not, so they can be matched for the valves used. Are 11/32 valves shipped 0.342" or 0.344" ? Could matter a whole lot.
Anyway, buy new heads and step 1 is disassembly and inspection - there's always something to touch up.
Ed can speak to that. I believe he cut the angles in his machine, then touched up the sealing angle with the stones to guarantee a positive seal. These hards are going in my racecar (although they aren’t a true “race head”) guides neeeded sized accordingly for the application. I look to spin this engine 6,500-7,000 rpm not long after it’s built.
Icing on the 400 !
Yes sir! Super glad to have them. 10 steps better than stockers
Very impressive work Joe !!! Where is Ed Located and can I ship a set of heads to him or call and then make arrangements?? Thank you Joe n always learn and enjoy from your videos.
Thanks brother! Ed is in Rogers Arkansas.
@@JustMoparJoe Thank you very much . I am in Texas. Might try n look him up ??
Please, Tell Us How Much Did this Cost For All This Work, I Love His Precision
I think it cost less to do it once, then learn that it had to be redone. Thanks for the support! Be sure and check out Ed’s channel!
Thats a lot of extra finish work, did Edelbrock give you a discount? I’ll stick with my iron heads. They my need more work, but I’ll be ahead the cost of the aluminum heads.
I got these heads on sale for around $1,350. They have gone up 400-500$ since then. I was looking for the improved performance design benefits of an aluminum head,and the weight savings.
I bought some cheaply made heads for my c4 corvette. The heads were bent 2.6mm between in the middle when I placed them together.
I torqued the mid bolts first, so I could find out how much torque was wasted to make them flat. The heads are the crappy Edelbrock RPM, Poorly made in the U S A.
Oh man. These were cut .010 to clean up some road rash from shipping
Tying to turn them into trick flow heads
But better! I know every aspect of these heads are now ready to go. Even trick flows out of the box aren’t guaranteed to be ready for the application.
How big is the head gasket (diameter) vs the bore? Gotta watch as many head gaskets are much bigger then bore diameter and depending on the engine you may create other problems if the chamber is now “bigger” the the bore because now the airflow is slamming into the deck of the block….
Hopefully you saw my common head gaskets mistakes video. One of the biggest lessons I’ve learned was running too small of a head gasket diameter on a 440 truck block that had huge chamfers, similar to the 400 I have. Bore is around 4.372. The chamfer hanging on some sides is .030+. The common shim style gasket is cited as 4.400 and 4.410 in other places. If you add .030 per side of the bore, plus 4.372= I’m at 4.432. The common size up from that is 4.500. All I can do is test fit my new gaskets and look at how they hang in or out.
Just out of curiosity what kind of money do you have in them heads with the purchase and machine work?
Hey Dan. The heads were on sale for around $1350. I got an awesome deal on the machine work.
Lesson learned for me; if the expensive require all that machine work why not start with less expensive heads?
Thanks Garry. These were the least expensive “name brand” head. Cheaper than the performer and the victors
Did you do flow test pre and post work?
No sir. I’ll post the dyno numbers for the engine in a video.
It would be nice to see if this thing was on the dyno
And and you shall receive! I’ve got 4 dyno videos of these heads on a stock stroke 400 with 10/1 compression.
Big Block 400: Part 1/4 Dyno Testing Begins. #edelbrock Performer RPM intake #mopar #bigblock #dyno
th-cam.com/video/cEHE-_Zho-M/w-d-xo.html
How much did this cost you in addition to the head cost?
I have a deal with this machine shop. The value isn’t in the cost, for sure.
How’s the cost to benefit ratio for “cleaning” the heads compared to off the shelf?
Thanks for asking. These heads with my total expense is still less than an unchecked off the shelf TF or Indy.
@@JustMoparJoe what did you mean by a bare set of heads?
@@JoesMoparMess bare means without any valves, or hardware, or springs. You have to source it all for your build. Bare castings
@@JoesMoparMess www.speedmaster79.com/Mopar-Chrysler-BB-383-440-265cc-74cc-As-Cast-Bare-Aluminum-Cylinder-Head
@@JustMoparJoe Got it, that’s what I figured. I was thinking of the 440 source stealth heads. I love the idea of getting a stroker kit and some stealth heads but everything else looking like an old tired 440!
I find these e street heads are like Russian roulette used a few and had some that were pretty good and some that were terrible
Thanks for sharing Peter. I was scared to send them back when it took so many months to get them.
@@JustMoparJoe I know that feeling, it took me forever to get my last pair sent over to England where I'm located but luckily they weren't a bad pair of heads and got my C body screaming again. Love your vids and can't wait to see the 400 in the barracuda
@@peterh7605 hope they wake up my barracuda!
2" in 1.78 out valves?
I believe they’re 2.14” or 2.19”. I can’t remember
Edelbrock shipped those for install? Bad guides, no clearancing, poor head surface, rough cast chambers? Why install the valves?
They’re a world better now! They’re on my 512
It’s a shame, Joe pay all that money for aluminum heads, and then you gotta take them to the machine shop and get it worked out or ready to go.
They’re working flawlessly now, and I paid for the piece of mind. It’s not the quality of new parts that it used to be
Wouldn't it have been better to scribe to the cylinder bore?
Hey Harry’s. We scribed to a compressed gaskets bore size. The line left was just inside that gasket perimeter, which will be almost exactly the bore. I would argue that the difference in processes would not net enough gain to worry about. Also, our block was not bored yet.
Joe , good video < check out the youtube channel " Erick Weingartner " , he does a lot on porting and cylinder head flow - pretty interesting . Secondly it is pretty hard to avoid chinese made stuff today but when the choice is easy I go American made . It is hard to find a crank for instance not forged in china but stuff like heads and intakes it is pretty easy . just my opinion
Thanks buddy. He and Ed actually talk on the phone. They’re not too far from each other.
How much. Hp did this build turn out to be
Dyno is next week! Hope you come back for it.
@@JustMoparJoe I will thanks Joe
Do you sell t shirts
@@danieljacobson5774 yes sir! www.etsy.com/search?q=Justmoparjoe%20
The big block Mopar is a big block with small block heads;
All torque no power .
That’s a good reason to buy aftermarket heads. Best of both worlds
Ed still doing cylinder heads...
Yes
@@JustMoparJoe I have an set of AFR cylinder heads and looking for an shop that will do an amazing Porting and polished on them
@@rodneymartin2046 check out Ed’s machine on TH-cam if you’re interested in using him
@@JustMoparJoe thank you very much
Good heads cost $$ one way or another
That’s a fact
Your increasing your combustion chamber size as well slightly.. edit you got around to that 😂
These ended up at 75.6 after being shaved. I believe in the unshrouded chamber. People cry about the small cc runners. I think this broadens the funnel effect. These heads are kicking butt on my 512 now.
@@JustMoparJoe I agree it really helps on the low end a lot to get more air flow at lower lift.
Get Brodix and everything is perfect :-) Never buy Edelbrock they have Chinese castings assembled in USA and the Valves seem to be chinese imports too! The valve seats are not sealing porperly ot of the box! AFR is better and even Trick Flow are better!
I just made 500 hp and 500 foot pounds with these heads on a 406. Hope you watch the dyno video series.