Do Fat Burning Zones Exist? | Using Fat As Fuel During Exercise
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ค. 2024
- We're asking if Fat Burning Zone exists or if we should think about becoming better at being fat-adapted, is there such a thing? If so what does it mean and how might it impact us as triathletes? Many thanks to Dietician Renee McGregor & Physiologist Dan Plews for their expert advice! 🙌
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When we were competing, our focus was my training sessions and how consistency in those impacted our performance on race day, we didn’t consider how combining training intensities and diet could impact the fuel we were utilising in my body.
We're asking if a Fat Burning Zone exists or if we should think about becoming better at being fat-adapted, is there such a thing? If so what does it mean and how might it impact us as triathletes?
So to expand our horizons, Fraser spoke to two experts from the fields of sports nutrition and sports science who view this from slightly different sides of the fence. Dietician Renee McGregor erred on caution and physiologist Dan Plews expanded on how learning to become fat-adapted can help in long course triathlon.
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VT1 and easy running I think are often not tested well at all...the whole 180-age or 220-age are such terrible estimates for soooo many that even a few "at home tests" can give you such a better idea of who are you are and what you should do. Last data I saw was a sampling of ~100 runners and over 1/3rd of them were more than 10 beats away from their 'calculated max'. At this point I almost feel that the equations should be abolished because of how often they miss them mark. As a sample of 1 (me)...i'm 44 years old and my last VO2 max test had me holding 191BPM for well over a minute.
Maybe have the entire GTN staff sorta go through all the methods and compare their data to give people an idea of possible improvement of accuracy with no testing to maximal testing.
I would be interested to know more about fasted workouts, especially with some reference to affects on female athletes. I do a lot of my workouts fastest because I live in Thailand so if I waited to have breakfast and digest, etc it would be too hot to do anything, and I imagine there are a lot of people in similar situations - doing fasted workouts out of necessity. The reason I say from a female perspective is because one criticism I read regarding fasted workouts is that most research has been done based on male physiology, and there may be more serious implications for women due to differences in hormones, natural fat stores, etc. I'm not sure how true this is, but it would be interesting to hear more about it. (I realise you touched upon this in this video, but I'd be interested to know more.)
Beth Henderson have you read Stacy Sims “roar” book?
One legged pedalling, do we need to be more balanced? 🤔
It would be very interesting to hear your view on how a IM training program should/must? change as we get older?
Would you be able to do a video comparing benefits vs cons of daily running with no days off. Great subject today. Thanks
this was quite helpful. thank you.
Great video and excellent to have two expert views on this
Great, informative well balanced video. Thank you GTN.
Really good information. Thank you GTN.
Awesome and insightful! Thanks gtn!
I loved this. I’m not an athlete, nor am I a nutritionist but this is a very good topic for me at the moment. I think in terms of us normal fitness folk we have to find our own likes and dislikes. For instance I enjoy exercising while fasted, usually in the morning. Whereas my Brother cannot contemplate any form of exercise with having dippy eggs and toast an hour before.
Great Info thank you!.
Amazing information, definitely I would like to have more information especially in long cycling season
IDK if y’all got a new editor, but the music is on point in a morning becomes eclectic kinda way. Tasteful good vibes 👍🏽
That was a great video. The two experts were essentially agreeing with each other but explaining the ideas a bit differently. I remember during my first 100km ultramarathon starting to feel nauseous from about 50km. Because I was outside my practical experience I gave in to the temptation to avoid this and gradually stopped eating. At 80km I was in trouble and at about 85km, while standing on top of a mountain I completely ran out of endogenous glycogen. I could find the track, even though there was only one way to go and stood there for what appeared to be hours but was probably only 5min trying to move. I eventually fought through the confusion and got down to the aid station, which happened to be the start/finish line and withdrew. Endogenous glycogen or carbs are critical to the effective functioning of the body, especially the brain. I learned a lot that day, as I did from this video.
Great information as usual 👌😀thanks
Great topic thank you. I'd love to know what you think on intermittent fasting too and how that might enable to burn fats rather than carbs for longer while maintaining a balanced diet .
Really great video!!
Been on intermittent fasting since January, and doing an increased amount of fasted training and have noted difference in energy levels during exercise. At low intensity, energy levels seem to rise after 1hr+. Also was on a 130k ride recently , by the end of the ride I'd been fasted for 17hrs. Energy levels were great and only noticed them start to dip after 100k when I upped the intensity level.
exact same experience. I brought high fat sausages and having them mid-way (~80km) helped a lot. I was faster at the end of the 178km ride!
i really enjoy your videos it makes me a better at triathlon
Would love to hear more about fasted training. Especially from perspective of a novice who doesn't have access to lab measurements. Thanks!
Listen to the scientist in the video. Not worth doing...
@@jackjosephy23 10:10 seems to suggest otherwise
@@jackjosephy23 The scientist is mostly talking about diet, I'm interested in fasted training
This maybe useful th-cam.com/video/hfKMw0sXpkU/w-d-xo.html
fasting training will definitely increase your fat adaption. I run 10k when im 18 hours into a fast and my energy feels great an consistent and when im done im not even hungry.
Great topic love the content that's more focused on the science part of training.
Would be really cool to see something on fasted training. What could be cool is to have a look at the concept of one day hard one day a bit easier, obviously glycogen levels decrease alot on a big session and as a rough ballpark figure it takes 20 hours to refill those so how could we take that knowledge and apply that to our diet and try get fasted training in while not depriving ourselves of the carbs needed for big sessions.
When you refer to zone 2 in this video is that 2 of 5 zones? I ask because I have been using a program with 7 zones
Yeah more on this please, maybe on Maffetone Methdo?
Reading some values from last gas exchange test. 1h session at VT1 calorie approximation 600 kcal and fat percentage could be around 50%, so 300 kcal from fat sources. Doing 1h session close to VT2 calorie approximation 1300 kcal with 25% from fat so 325 kcal. Plus more kcal in post exercise than post session at VT1. :-)
On the other hand proper training resulting in an increase of FTP will also move up power at VT1 and Fatmax = going faster with the same percentage from fat sources.
Hey Daniel, if carbohydrates are “vital and really important”, how do you explain the performance of Alessandro Medeiros, a 50 year old man running 100 miles (Keys Ultras) on a carnivore diet? He’s been on a carnivore diet for nearly 2 years and zero carb intake during the run as well. I guess the reality contradicts what you just affirmed.
I was able to run a half marathon in a good time for me one morning on only a milky coffee. I couldn’t believe it! Any good ideas why?! No carbs taken on either until after the run
i think because you are in fasted state your body takes energy from fats and uses fats as a fuel (ketosis). I am the same, my preformence is better in fasted state
Great video, thanks Fraser. Renee's approach makes the most sense to me. A well balanced diet ( i.e. 60%C/25%P/15%F) is critical and it's the intensity of the workout that's the function of what zone you're in. Give your body the proper mix of nutrients and let it determine how to use them. Trying to out guess your body with fad diets is a recipe (no pun intended) for injury or sickness.
agreed
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6410243/
"Cell Metabolism reported that exhaustive cycling performance was improved by nutritional ketosis" and "Subjects that adhered to a low-carbohydrate high-fat diet were significantly higher, exhibiting a potential performance enhancement in endurance capacity." - This si an actual meta study. Not opinions.
www.runnersworld.com/nutrition-weight-loss/a20840731/the-high-fat-diet-for-endurance-athletes-in-three-graphs/ - some more useful info.
Don't believe anything just because someone said so. It's quite easy to do your own research these days.
The guy sure loves his cereal.
Would the new Lumen device help identify fat burning zone without the need for lab tests?
I’m doing ketogenic and intermittently fasting. I have more energy and train in a fasted state. Something I could never do before. I see carbs as news paper. Quick to burn. Fat burning is like putting a huge log on the fire. It will last for hours. Saving the cards for the end of a race etc makes sense.
Keto is stupid
If you don't have anything useful to say it's better to shut up. Now go eat your f cereal!
On bike I’m able to work in zone 2 in running no way always 4 or higher for me it’s HB 80-120 fat burning above it’s carbs been watching this for the last 25 years or so
Wouldn't the respiratory rate be a better indicator then heart rate of being in the fat burning zone?
Love videos like this that get into the weeds of the physiology and how common training techniques align or not with what the research tells us. However I'd appreciate a quick sum-up of the main takeaways at the end. I think it's something like "yes you burn more fat at lower intensities, and the more trained you are, the faster you can go while remaining in those more fat-utilizing intensities, which is good for endurance events. But it's hard to make hard and fast rules about where exactly those intensities are, and they vary person-to-person and even day-to-day. Don't be afraid of carbs, but a fat-heavy, carb-low diet may help around the margins with training your body to utilize fats more. Possibly regular fasted training too." Does that about sum it up, or did I miss or misunderstand anything?
I try to eat very little carbs for two days of playing Raqutball and riding my road bike and I was very exhausted, that night I had cookies and milk at night and the next day in the morning I was frying on my road bike break my old time record. Yes I need carbs but finding the balance between performance and loosing body fat can be confusing.
I found this really interesting. I've been running regularly for about 6months now, I'm 43 so a late starter. Well I initially ran mostly in Z5, and I'm now usually in Z4 or Z3. Almost never in Z2 and yet in 6 months I've lost 10kg and am now at 66kg almost at the weight I had from 18 to 35yo. So as you rightly pointed out, it's not as simple as 'run in this zone to burn fat'.
the big q how much muscle mass you loose!?
@@kristsmocs quite right! :) And I'm following some of GTNs S&C advice too to build up muscle as required. I think I was carrying useless weight and now I'm building up from a clean slate if you will. Anyway, good point.
You should consider your recovery from constant higher zone training. Also, your gain in endurance, etc. If you were to get into zone 2 and stay there, and go for a longer time, I think you would likely see even better fat loss with a lot less abuse to your body.
That's because zone 2 to burn fat is a myth. You actually burn more fat the more intensely you exercise.
Fraser where abouts in Scotland are you from? I'm from aviemore mate and your accent doesn't sound to far away from me
@Fraser Cartmell haha aye you've not lost the accent yet!! Love the channel given me the bug back for running. Yes loch morlich was amazing today ☀️
First here!! Also I have too little fat to burn as a result of all this training haha
Fats morning carbs evening, fasted training low intense morning ,carb fueld hi intense evening👃👣🦶🌲📈🙏
Important take away is that just because you increase fat oxidation doesn’t mean you increase fat loss. This confusion causes many to choose a low carb dieting approach thinking it will result in fat loss by increasing fat oxidation but it’s not always true. Caloric deficit for fat loss is the only way. But for improved aerobic performance, improved fat oxidation may definitely be the way to go!
ya I think this was about during activity
I have been on a low(less than 50g per day) Carb, High fat lifestyle for 8 years. I lost 30kgs in the first 18 months. I am sure Prof Tim Noaks (Internationally Triple A rated world leader in Sports Science and Nutrition) would take an interview on this subject...
first off: good on you for losing weight by using a tactic that works for you.
But, it REALLY doesn't matter if you eat high or low carb/fat when trying to lose weight.
Tim Noakes isn't the leader in sports nutrition, not by a long shot.. Alan Aragon is, and by way more years.
If you want to learn anything about carbs, Layne Norton is your man.
Just because some Dr. is really involved in the sports science, and a lot of people listen to his advice, doesn't make him correct.
He's really biased about his opinion on food intake, wich is never a good thing to see in a scientist.
I lost 20kg doing non of that but by being in a calorie deficit. This high fat low carb nonesense has nothing to do with fatloss. You were just on a deficit.
Its important to notice that in the video they‘re talking about what your burning during activity. burning fat during training doesn‘t mean you‘ll loose weight. If you didn‘t deplete your carbs/ are not in a caloric deficit, you won‘t loose fat/weight overall. the carbs will turn into fat after.
The problem I see with the low carb approach is that eventually all internal carbs will be used up to the point the body transitions into ketosis when this happens you can truly say you are fat adapted however the top end of your engine is going to be lacking due to no glycogen.
Consider the 70kg man with 800g of carbs stores this is a mere 3200kcals and like what was said humans are not black and white so the amount of carbs and fats used is a sliding scale based on intensity therefore if carbs are restricted logic says that 800g will eventually go.
I think the better approach is to test where your fat max lies and for some people this might be at ftp or race pace and for other it might be a thing that can be improved via training
This is false. i never eat carbs and i have tons of energy all the time. You don’t need glycogen for anything ever
Very interesting video!
Although it would be more beneficial to most viewers interested in this subject if scientist allowed themselves to speak in Layman’s terms instead of throwing technical words out there most commun mortal do not understand.
Renee McGregor was very clear and comprehensible. It seemed Dan Plews was speaking at a doctors conference.
No disrespect intended of course…
So my limited understanding is we have about 2000kcal glucose on our blood , liver for immediate use, a handy survival tool .for fighting ,hunting, running or passion !
So if we burn say 600 kcal an hour while exercising and do not eat for three hours , we are gonna bonk round about 3 to 4 hr Mark. If we consume carb only fuels this will delay this bonk onset and push it further outwards , all the while we are burning fat to varying degrees of intensity.
So once u go over the 3 hr exercise Mark of exercise its really important to take diet
Seriously , especially carbs , and under 3 hrs u should be able to get home without bonking , as a rough guide :)
I personally think metabolism has a massive part to play in this. The liver is the converter of all nutrients into glycogen. Carbs are easy, fats have a long cascade. The metabolic rates depend highly on the individuals endocrine system. I would bet older people don't burn fat as quickly/readily because their metabolic rates are slower.
There is no "Fat Burning Zone". There are just zones that consume internal fat more efficient than others. However, as long as you provide internal/external carbonhydrates, your body has no need to convert fat ever. Also, as f.e. a "skinny" Marathon runner, which internal fat is there to burn? I wouldn't focus on that in detail to much. Most of the time an athlete is capable of providing doses of carbonyhydrate, right? However, I wouldn't actually completely ignore that as well. 70% of my training happens in the lower effort zones, most of the time in sober state. But that's training. I would never rely on not consuming carbonhydrates in competition for the long distances. A 21,1k is actually a example for me personally, where I'd consider not consuming anything at all, and I know that the last 10-15% happen solely on fat burn level. But it's also a mind battle thing...and one does not underestimate adrenaline in competition, right?
This is an old topic, you just arrived to this ? I'm not a professional runner and I'm doing this for years
Here’s a 🍪
I want to hear about the actual performance increases with "fat adaptation". There is a jump from "fat adapted" to performance and no numbers given. Also it seems that all this talk ignores the fact that carbs are taken in during the event and how this effects everything. I believe we have all gotten caught up in this because of marketing. People want to sell books, clinics and coaching and need a hook.
Look at the real world and you will see incredible performances from people doing it all kinds of ways.
I think fat burning has more to do with youth and testosterone levels... When I was young I'd run and burn fat now I'm older I'll run and burn muscle and just keep the fat... Interesting subject thanks for your video... 😊
This is literally me now I’m in my 40s! 😆
You have to work out with heavy weights and watch your diet...
@@zack_paris9616 Good advice...Dead lifting and heavy squats to get the T level up....
2 person
During moderate activity a higher percentage of the total you burn will be fat whereas during intense activity a higher percentage will be carbohydrate, although you'll burn more energy overall, but the body will continue to burn fat after you stop exercising. Thus high intensity exercise still burns more fat overall. That's how it was explained to me. All this stuff about needing to be in zone 2 to burn more fat appears to be nothing more than a popular myth.
Years ago when I used to play rugby I was told to slow down on my runs to burn more fat. But that just meant I burnt less calories. I put weight on and lost some top end speed.
"unlimited fat storage" how many serious athletes have more than 4% bodyfat, Heather she has what 2 grams of fat? Now, an almost 60 year old stodger like me...I have an endless supply of fat...ie dead weight I am carrying around to power me on
ya but 1kg fat is what like 3500 kilocal, so you really can go a long way.
Phil Maffetone has left the chat
It's very simple. It doesn't matter if you burn fat or carb, if you burn food or body. It's all a number of kcals at the end of the day. If I burn let's say 100 kcals of food, it will have the same result on fatloss as when I burn 100 kcals of bodyfat. Because those kcals are already in the body contributing to all the kcals your body has. a 100 kcals will always be a 100 kcals, no matter where you burn it off.
This whole video doesn't adress this, wich is a pity because it's the most important part of fatloss.
He's talking about training fasted, and even though on paper you burn more fat when fasted, you won't be able to train as hard as you would with food in your body, so you burn less fat at the end of the day.
The best way to burn fat is just eating less than you burn.
The smart way to do that, is by eating less throughout the day, but eat most of your carbs/fats before and while training so that you can perform at your best at the most important moment.
Hi, i think target of fat-adaptation here is not weightloss but rather saving some glycogin for the end of an endurance event. The more fat yoy burn the more carbs you save for later in the race. For weightloss it wil indeed not matter
@@pahlplp although that is a theory, it's almost impossible to seperate the 2 that black and white. The easiest methode to not burn you glycogin level in an event, is by filling your energy in the ride and beforehand.
If you want to use carbs as energy at the end of a ride, it's best to eat/drink them towards the end since it's metabolised first compared to you glycogin storare.
If you're using your glycogin, you're already in a less strong situation wich I would never recommand if you're going for performance.
Carbs for raceday only
I couldn’t watch this all the way to the end because there were just too many ads. I appreciate that you want to monetise your vids, but eight ads in ten mins is too much for me, and I’m opting out of your channel now.
Jesus. Fat burning zones won't exist for this bloke, he's got not fat!
High Carb Low Fat plant based for the win!
Without watching this I can tell you long slow steady state such as walking. Preserves glycogen, and never mind all this fasting cardio. Eat sensibly so you can do the exercise. Cut back on the calories on rest days. Its a marathon not a sprint for most mortals. For the trained athlete? Well, your body fat levels are so low to start with you've got a problem that you do not recognise.
I can say that fat burning zone exist by just watching the presenter.
Would be good to understand what y'all think the relative usefulness of burning fat is versus training one's maximal oxygen uptake, moving threshold power numbers, etc. Sure, it's useful, no question. But I don't see the clear case for...paying attention to it. When I hear endurance athletes talking about HFLC I smell nonsense, the science has been in on that for quite a while. The obsession with fat seems borderline delusional at this point. Carbs fuel exercise. Carbs fuel the brain. It's just not that hard.
I see where you're coming from. Carb deprivation is not a good thing, your brain will need the equivalent of a piece of sugar every hour at least. So 24h times 4g = 96g per day. Then your muscle will store carbs and if you train them well you can even store more (hence why people carb load before an event). The whole point of this is to avoid bonking which is bound to happen if you work out too hard for a long period of time. And if you consistently train fasted without taking nutrition on board when you come at a race and consume those you may well end up with an upset stomach, not ideal! But fat is useful to avoid depleting your carbs stores. And your ability to process is also limited so fat comes in handy to spare it. I think the best recipe is to know yourself, how long you can last without fuel, how much you can process for a given period of time. Proper training will help you improve those values, but don't restrict your diet, stay healthy!
I see where you're coming from. Carb deprivation is not a good thing, your brain will need the equivalent of a piece of sugar every hour at least. So 24h times 4g = 96g per day. Then your muscle will store carbs and if you train them well you can even store more (hence why people carb load before an event). The whole point of this is to avoid bonking which is bound to happen if you work out too hard for a long period of time. And if you consistently train fasted without taking nutrition on board when you come at a race and consume those you may well end up with an upset stomach, not ideal! But fat is useful to avoid depleting your carbs stores. And your ability to process is also limited so fat comes in handy to spare it. I think the best recipe is to know yourself, how long you can last without fuel, how much you can process for a given period of time. Proper training will help you improve those values, but don't restrict your diet, stay healthy!
Thanks for busting this baseless carbphobia. Great video!
Really enjoyed this topic... and this vid couldn't have come at a better time for me....
I've been on a LCHF diet for 12 months, I have had digestive issues in the past and struggle to eat grains and sugar.... this diet has been a huge turning point for me, as I'm now, at 51, feeling healthier than I ever have since my 20s.....
However, even though I'm definitely fat adapted, I really struggle with my more intense workouts.... I can run long and slow at my forever pace, well, forever...😁 well, maybe not literally forever, but you know what I mean.... 🙃
but when I start increasing the intensity, this is when I crash and burn, or what some call Bonk....lol
After 3 mile of running hard, or race pace, or about half an hour into hard running, I lose energy.....I have to slow down....
I'm now experimenting with trying different foods , either, the evening before or sometimes before my runs, but this is trickier, as I like to run early and fasted...... I'm also, thinking I may just need to eat more.... as being fat adapted means that I rarely feel hungry as I no longer have the sugar crashes that most people have 2-3 hours after eating.....
Any advice would be great.....
I have a jacket spud in the oven now, as I'm planning a tempo run tomorrow..... I've decided that, maybe, healthier more natural carbs would suit me better than sugary unhealthy carbs, although I'm quite partial to dark chocolate....👍😋
I had a similar experience to you. I went pretty full on LCHF for while, but also found the high intensity sessions too hard. I did a spinning class once, and bonked about 15 mins in and felt awful for the rest of the class. Now if I have a high intensity session I fuel with carbs before. Trying to keep it healthy: fruit / porridge etc. But the easier / lower intensity stuff I do fasted or eat a lower carb breakfast if I'm doing a longer session.
You made the video boring by talking here n there..Instead you should have takked with them earlier n then explain us if fat burning zones really exist?N If so then how to reach that zone??
"Do Fat Burning Zones Exist?" - Yes. We call them kitchens.
Dietitian not dietician btw. I married one. tit not tic : )
Too many ads
Stopped watching GCN changed to GTN, so much better 👍
I like the data, but you take too long to get to the important information.
The fewer carbs you take in, the more you probably need to train yourself to use store/preserve them.
Is it a fact or your assumption? I'm curious because there were plenty of studies on this topic without any significant conclusion.
@@gtom84 Just my assumption. According to what Dan & Fraser has said nearing the end, the way I see it is that he implied that you could be able to train yourself to store/preserve Carbs. Some studies say that your body does not shift to using Fat until your Glycogen stores are depleted(In which this case your body will shift faster towards fat oxidation. Others say that it depends on the intensity... Though I'm not sure b/c other studies say that your body uses both simultaneously but it changes, such as when going at Higher intensities it shifts more towards the more readily available energy source. The obvious thing is that carbs come in first(Training) and this is of course based on who you are. Another thing that shows is training your metabolism to maybe burn less, unless you are looking for weight loss... It is somewhat apparent that you can do so by training longer but at a lower intensity, though I'm not sure how this would affect performance. Yeah this is quite complicated...
No, Dan! Low-carb is demonstrably unhealthy.
This is not the first time GTN get this dietitian and she really don’t seem to understand training in aerobic zone doesn’t mean train with low carbs. She seems to be the kind of dietitian Ho encourage “balanced diet” with no actual knowledge of sports science.
She’s actually incredible well versed in sports science and nutrition! She has been to the Olympics and commonwealth games with various teams, and continues to work with top international athletes. I’m not sure she was implying that aerobic zone means low carbs? That’s certainly not what I understood for her advice
@@oli0808 Starch is broken down relatively quickly, just not as quickly as simpler sugars of course. Because it still takes a while, it can make sense to eat something before you go, instead of half an hour into the run.
It sounds to me like you're assuming she's recommending this for everybody and each run-I'm sure that's not the case. The longer and more intense the workout, the more likely you are to run out of muscle glycogen and other sources of carbs. This not only has an immediate effect on performance, but also on the training effect as a result.
As for replacing carb stores purely from fat stores:
1) If you don't eat carbs or protein in the recovery period, you are at risk of losing muscle mass. Don't worry about eating carbs at this point, due to increased post-exercise oxygen consumption you'll burn some fat anyways.
2) Filling up muscle glycogen stores through "carboloading" is standard practice for elite athletes because it works very well
@@markthrelfall3577 Hi Mark, great to see two different views on this, it'd be great to see a deeper dive on this. I wonder if the difference in viewpoint on whether fat adaption via an LCHF diet is needed between the two experts is due to the length of the event they specialise in. I know Dan Plews has won Kona and has coached Ironman athletes, so really focus's on the longer events, and Renee McGregor has coached Olympian and Commonwealth games athlete. My understanding is fat adaptation for shorter events it's less important as there is less chance of running out of fuel, whereas an Ironman you can't replace the amount of carbs you burn if you don't have a high fat oxidation. They didn't really go into enough detail on the specific requirements for different events, so a follow up video on that would be great.
The fat you eat is the fat you wear you need carbs and sugar forget fat