here is the real way to do it! dril a hole through the foam just above the plastic brackets inside the ICF. use a "L" bolt like you would use in the footing. Lay the "L" bolt on top of the plastic bracket and zip tie it to the bracket. Bolts are level and all in a line. Install ledger with slight oversized holes for adjustment and hang simpson ties ( or install simpsons while ledger is still on the ground...much easier!) much cheaper!!!
I'm a fan of the Simpson system, for us it works very well I can get a perfectly level floor a lot easier, the pocket system I've had move slightly when pouring concrete and then everything is off
Never worked with this stuff before but it's quickly becoming popular here now. Just wondering if you could simply fasten a ledger board directly to the ICF by using heavy duty concrete anchors drilled through the ledger, ICF form and through the hardened concrete.???
Thanks for the video. Very interesting. Another option would be to avoid having to use hangers at all by using top-chord-bearing trusses and sitting them on your LVL
too complicated why not cutout 2" x 12" vertical foam pockets screw lvl in position (maybe wrap 6mil poly on rear of lvl to prevent concrete from touching wood) put j-bolts through lvl but only tighten nut after pour Isn't this cheaper, faster and easier?
why not just embedd threaded rod in the icf, pour the concrete so it grabs the threaded rod, then install the rim joist on the threaded rod? Seems cheaper and leaves lots of room for minor adjustments after the concrete cures.
Parallel to the floor is part of it. The other part is each material must have a suitable compressive strength to maintain the 'shear'. Think scissors for a moment,,, both sides are steel. But what is one side is steel and the other side is a marshmallow? The steel will just shove the bolt in shear sideways through the marshmallow. Concrete on one side is good,, wood is okay to good,, but the two inches of foam between the bolt will just bend inside the two inches as the load comes on to it. That is the beauty of this guy's system. Just cut a piece of foam out and allow the concrete to infill behind the rim joist. Your bolt now is only in concrete, or wood,,, no fluffy marshmallow between.
Imagine a long nail. Then imagine grabbing each end with you hands, and trying to stretch it until the nail snaps. This is called 'Tensile Strength'. The nail is strongest this way. Now Imagine trying to bend the nail into a U shape. This is called 'Sheer Strength'. Nails are not as strong in this dimension. You can see for your self that it is much easier to Bend a nail than to Stretch it. So some mechanisms, or fasteners can hold a lot of load with Tensile strength, but may be weak if you install using its Sheer Strength Here is a short video describing different strength dimensions th-cam.com/video/cRUi_GdXdTc/w-d-xo.html
Can you do a video with more detail on blocking out securing a beam within the ICF wall? All the beam install portions seem to just be how to cut and block out for the beam, but not how to install the beam and secure it.
What prevents the cement from flowing out into the space where the floor joist sets? Does the portion of the Levann hanger that is in the wall fill up with cement?
The video doesn't show it very well but all it takes to set the hanger is 2 vertical cuts in the foam. After attaching our ledger we throw one screw down into the 2x4 ledger to keep the hanger from pushing out of position. We also spray foam the hanger so the top doesn't tip out. Don't have to worry about concrete flowing out because you don't remove any foam. Hope I described that okay. Cheers.
That's an advantage of composite ICF like www.efbm.com/ they are stronger...So just using L bolts r simpler when using them, over a conventional ICF...
I like your video's can you do one on the roof installation? How to install a roof thats hurricane/tornado/wind resistant after the icf is settled? I see a lot of video's on the walls but none on the roof... i want to build with icf but i cant rap my mind around how to make it a safe house against wind. Thank You in advance.
Pentdog attach a metal roof with a rounded top no peak or as little a peak as possible works great, seen a home like this with metal roof survive hurricane 2 in Mexico only lost one 8 foot piece of metal roofing, come to find out there was only 2 screw in it, instead of the 8 that the others had. So the winds pulled it off. Or just us this system and build a concrete slab roof. That would be best. Also more secure probably about the same cost.
You pre-position your truss ties(hurricane ties) on the top of the ICF wall and pour them in place. When you place the trusses, the embedded ties attach to and wrap over the top of the trusses. Very strong with continuous rebar all the way to the footings. Very debris resistant with that layer of CC. Also easy to incorporate a inner ICF safe room for not much added expense...
I don't see how the first system is safe at all, because the floor joist and bracket become a fulcrum, and I would think that the inside of the ICF block (the styrofoam) would compress over time, with the weight of the house or the floors on the joist after awhile, the second system being cast into the cavity (with the c oncrete pour) of the ICF seems to be the better system structurally, it's no longer a folcrum but a cantilever, in my opinion what would be a better system would be a continuous joist ledge similar to an outside brick ledge that would be cast into the ICF form.
this whole icf system is a joke, I have seen foundations out 2 inches at the bottom and 6 inches at the top...do not use this you will regret it..they don't vibrate the concrete..half inch voids around your rebar you cant see..I could go on and on .junk junk junk
the metal is embedded in the concrete. and the joist is connected at both ends hard to act as a lever, when both ends are stationary. the foam cant compress unless the concrete does. or if the metal fails. but, once the cavity is concrete filled, it'll be solid
There are many different manufacturers of ICF blocks on the market. Does anyone have a link for a comparison completed between them? I would ask individual builders, but it would seem to me that with the learning curve required for each blocks unique characteristics, many builders would be inclined to stick with whatever they started with and not re-learn another (possibly better) ICF block. Thoughts?
I don’t know of a comparison. We have used advantage, Logix and Nudura. Mostly Logix and Nudura. I like Nudura for multiple reasons. Fold down block so way less space to truck and store it. Ties go right to top and bottom of block and they actually lock together vertically. This prevents less settling but also requires less labour to tie the blocks up and down so you don’t get lifting on corners or near top rows. Nudura is reversible so no buying left or right corners and it also has less waste. Big knobs on top and bottom. They have a million different block and accessories that are very well thought out. Logix also has a ton of accessories. A bit thicker foam so it’s a bit stronger. In the end they are all comparable with slight pros and cons. Not one block is the end all be all. Hope that helps.
If you are not going to insert the Simpson hanger, you should just turn the camera off. Trying to imagine what you are doing with all of your back and forth without doing the job is like listening to auto repair instructions on the radio. For the cost of one ICF panel, you could really show us something worthwhile.
I will debate against the Simpson system any day of the week. We did it once and once only. Way too much material cost, hangers and labour. Lavann is far better. But there’s more than 1 Way (or even 2) to do things. Not saying Lavann is the only. Always lots of good ways to achieve the same result.
Who care what you want to debate. Your demo sucks without showing how to actually use the Simpson or Lavann system. Talk is cheap. This video is cheap.
This is the worst demonstration ever! It appears that this guys was not well versed on his knowledge to bring a point across, which was to show "How TO HANG A FLOOR JOIST"
here is the real way to do it! dril a hole through the foam just above the plastic brackets inside the ICF. use a "L" bolt like you would use in the footing. Lay the "L" bolt on top of the plastic bracket and zip tie it to the bracket. Bolts are level and all in a line. Install ledger with slight oversized holes for adjustment and hang simpson ties ( or install simpsons while ledger is still on the ground...much easier!) much cheaper!!!
I like where you are going with this but instead of zip tieing it to a plastic bracket, I would tie it to a horizontal rebar
I'm a fan of the Simpson system, for us it works very well I can get a perfectly level floor a lot easier, the pocket system I've had move slightly when pouring concrete and then everything is off
Have you ever installed floor system before pouring concrete?
Never worked with this stuff before but it's quickly becoming popular here now. Just wondering if you could simply fasten a ledger board directly to the ICF by using heavy duty concrete anchors drilled through the ledger, ICF form and through the hardened concrete.???
Thanks for the video. Very interesting. Another option would be to avoid having to use hangers at all by using top-chord-bearing trusses and sitting them on your LVL
Kody, it looks like the width of the Levann hanger will accept dimensional lumber. Can you use floor trusses with those hangers?
too complicated
why not cutout 2" x 12" vertical foam pockets
screw lvl in position (maybe wrap 6mil poly on rear of lvl to prevent concrete from touching wood)
put j-bolts through lvl but only tighten nut after pour
Isn't this cheaper, faster and easier?
why not just embedd threaded rod in the icf, pour the concrete so it grabs the threaded rod, then install the rim joist on the threaded rod? Seems cheaper and leaves lots of room for minor adjustments after the concrete cures.
Jonathan Morris not rated for shearing loads
The threaded rod would not be in shear. The threaded rod would be within the ICF , foam, block and could bend under load.
if the threaded rod is parallel to the floor, it's in sheer. not following what youre saying about 'bend under load' - can you describe more?
Parallel to the floor is part of it. The other part is each material must have a suitable compressive strength to maintain the 'shear'. Think scissors for a moment,,, both sides are steel. But what is one side is steel and the other side is a marshmallow? The steel will just shove the bolt in shear sideways through the marshmallow. Concrete on one side is good,, wood is okay to good,, but the two inches of foam between the bolt will just bend inside the two inches as the load comes on to it. That is the beauty of this guy's system. Just cut a piece of foam out and allow the concrete to infill behind the rim joist. Your bolt now is only in concrete, or wood,,, no fluffy marshmallow between.
Imagine a long nail. Then imagine grabbing each end with you hands, and trying to stretch it until the nail snaps. This is called 'Tensile Strength'. The nail is strongest this way.
Now Imagine trying to bend the nail into a U shape. This is called 'Sheer Strength'. Nails are not as strong in this dimension. You can see for your self that it is much easier to Bend a nail than to Stretch it.
So some mechanisms, or fasteners can hold a lot of load with Tensile strength, but may be weak if you install using its Sheer Strength
Here is a short video describing different strength dimensions th-cam.com/video/cRUi_GdXdTc/w-d-xo.html
What is wrong with 3/4" threaded rod embedded in the concrete. Yes, you have a slight moment on the ledger, but tell me why that does not work.
I'll bet money that goof Jesse is watching this
Or use top chord, bottom chord or regular floor joists resting on a sill attached to a corbel/brick ledge block...
Can you do a video with more detail on blocking out securing a beam within the ICF wall? All the beam install portions seem to just be how to cut and block out for the beam, but not how to install the beam and secure it.
Q. Where do find the Lavaaned hangers to order . Thanks
Watkins hangers are the alternative. If you purchase from them mention promo code UPTOKODE2020 for a discount
Kody, would like to see a house you built finished with this system. Video walk through. Thanks for video.
I am looking for an ICF block experience installer to help and over see building my house in Merida,MX
What prevents the cement from flowing out into the space where the floor joist sets? Does the portion of the Levann hanger that is in the wall fill up with cement?
The video doesn't show it very well but all it takes to set the hanger is 2 vertical cuts in the foam. After attaching our ledger we throw one screw down into the 2x4 ledger to keep the hanger from pushing out of position. We also spray foam the hanger so the top doesn't tip out. Don't have to worry about concrete flowing out because you don't remove any foam. Hope I described that okay. Cheers.
Hi Kody . I’m looking for a detailed video on corner brick ledges with this system.
By the way super video 👊
DETAIL DRAWING WOULD HELP EXPLANATION A LOT
video shows detail on everything and anything. Unfortunately your video just talking instead of show how it joint.
Abadon lucif I
why not set your ledgers in place with footing L bolts and brace the ledger off the footing so it can't settle...
i.e. no special brackets...
That's an advantage of composite ICF like www.efbm.com/ they are stronger...So just using L bolts r simpler when using them, over a conventional ICF...
what's the price on something like this
as for blocks
blocks
sand
cement
labor
as for ICF
lego
i can do lego
cement
that's it
what's the cost
Good job, Thank you for your information.
Where can I buy the Lavann hangers?? I’m not seeing them online??
Are you in Canada or the United States?
@@uptokode USA
what about painting?
I like your video's can you do one on the roof installation? How to install a roof thats hurricane/tornado/wind resistant after the icf is settled?
I see a lot of video's on the walls but none on the roof... i want to build with icf but i cant rap my mind around how to make it a safe house against wind. Thank You in advance.
Do your roof with hollow core slabs.
Pentdog attach a metal roof with a rounded top no peak or as little a peak as possible works great, seen a home like this with metal roof survive hurricane 2 in Mexico only lost one 8 foot piece of metal roofing, come to find out there was only 2 screw in it, instead of the 8 that the others had. So the winds pulled it off. Or just us this system and build a concrete slab roof. That would be best. Also more secure probably about the same cost.
You pre-position your truss ties(hurricane ties) on the top of the ICF wall and pour them in place. When you place the trusses, the embedded ties attach to and wrap over the top of the trusses. Very strong with continuous rebar all the way to the footings. Very debris resistant with that layer of CC. Also easy to incorporate a inner ICF safe room for not much added expense...
I don't see how the first system is safe at all, because the floor joist and bracket become a fulcrum, and I would think that the inside of the ICF block (the styrofoam) would compress over time, with the weight of the house or the floors on the joist after awhile, the second system being cast into the cavity (with the c oncrete pour) of the ICF seems to be the better system structurally, it's no longer a folcrum but a cantilever, in my opinion what would be a better system would be a continuous joist ledge similar to an outside brick ledge that would be cast into the ICF form.
this whole icf system is a joke, I have seen foundations out 2 inches at the bottom and 6 inches at the top...do not use this you will regret it..they don't vibrate the concrete..half inch voids around your rebar you cant see..I could go on and on .junk junk junk
the metal is embedded in the concrete. and the joist is connected at both ends hard to act as a lever, when both ends are stationary. the foam cant compress unless the concrete does. or if the metal fails. but, once the cavity is concrete filled, it'll be solid
joe Schlotthauer Beautiful Idea..I Agree!!
There are many different manufacturers of ICF blocks on the market. Does anyone have a link for a comparison completed between them? I would ask individual builders, but it would seem to me that with the learning curve required for each blocks unique characteristics, many builders would be inclined to stick with whatever they started with and not re-learn another (possibly better) ICF block.
Thoughts?
I don’t know of a comparison. We have used advantage, Logix and Nudura. Mostly Logix and Nudura. I like Nudura for multiple reasons. Fold down block so way less space to truck and store it. Ties go right to top and bottom of block and they actually lock together vertically. This prevents less settling but also requires less labour to tie the blocks up and down so you don’t get lifting on corners or near top rows. Nudura is reversible so no buying left or right corners and it also has less waste. Big knobs on top and bottom. They have a million different block and accessories that are very well thought out.
Logix also has a ton of accessories. A bit thicker foam so it’s a bit stronger.
In the end they are all comparable with slight pros and cons. Not one block is the end all be all. Hope that helps.
first decide if you want a block system or a panel system
Great video! Thank you :)
good job
I appreciate that.
if you really show how to connect those parts you were showing it would be better.
The 2nd hanger is a replica of rpwatkins hanger. When was the patent issued for ur levan???? Cheep copy
Can not find direct info about it anymore. lol
OMG The cost.
Actually put that in the ICF so we get the gist of it.
Way too long, not clear and no visual aid of finished product.
I made it with Woodglut plans!
Yeah, that didn't make sense, Kode. You need to actually demonstrate.
One day I will. It’s been on my list.
You should have built a small shed model and talked us through step by step. You lost me early into this video.
That was clear a mud.
Mortar or mud?
If you are not going to insert the Simpson hanger, you should just turn the camera off. Trying to imagine what you are doing with all of your back and forth without doing the job is like listening to auto repair instructions on the radio. For the cost of one ICF panel, you could really show us something worthwhile.
I will debate against the Simpson system any day of the week. We did it once and once only. Way too much material cost, hangers and labour. Lavann is far better. But there’s more than 1 Way (or even 2) to do things. Not saying Lavann is the only. Always lots of good ways to achieve the same result.
Who care what you want to debate. Your demo sucks without showing how to actually use the Simpson or Lavann system. Talk is cheap. This video is cheap.
The ppl bitching r just moronic trolls...Kody thx for ur thorough explanation of the 2 method...
Looks like Lavann is out of business.
To much over explanation and to much jumping around. You lost me about three minutes in.
yup clear as mud lol
I hurt me to watch this. You definitely need to be prepared to talk and really know what your talking about to grab the attention of your audience .
This a lame demonstration. I don’t think you’ve ever done this work .
It’s a super old video. Much better at my delivery and execution
too slow, hard to listen to ....not able to see
This is the worst demonstration ever! It appears that this guys was not well versed on his knowledge to bring a point across, which was to show "How TO HANG A FLOOR JOIST"
Just terrible
Pretty poor demo to say the least
Waste of time!