Your video brings me back to my high school days at BOCES rebuilding my 1969 Buick Riviera 430 big block engine and learned to use those type feeler gauges. Good memories. Thank you for the informative videos. George.
I learned to use this back in the 1980s, in Aircraft Mechanic's school. Very handy little stuff indeed. Very quick and easy. Great to see that it's still being sold today...
I remember Mr. Robert Tryon my Jr High METALS AND ELECTRICITY teacher in 1971 in our small engines training taught us about Plastigage ... Thanks for the refresher course Mr. Pete
Back in the day, we used plastigage to balance the combustion gaps on diesel engines and racing Volkswagens. Put the plastigage thread on top of the piston, then wind the engine over. do all pistons at once, then take the heads off and measure. Adjust the thickness of the individual head gaskets to get the same clearance on all pistons.
Brings back a lot of memories from my motorcycle engine rebuilding days... we used Plastigage aka "Plastismash" to measure rod and mainbearing clearances (Two piece rods and split main bearings only): Also, we used ordinary modeling clay or soft wax to measure piston-to-cylinder head and piston to valve clearance, too.
I've built many an engine using plastigage. Really good stuff. I didn't trust it at first and measured it just like you did. As long as you don't spin the journal you are gaging it is as accurate or better than a person with a micrometer, particularly if he is having a bad day. Good video. Keep them coming.
Built my first engine in about 59 using plasti an have done quite a few over the yrs. never had one fail,knock on wood,OOPS knocked over my beer, good video i think you explained it well if some people did'nt get it we would'nt want them building an engine anyhoo.
mr peterson, with all due respect i would like to comment on this, back when we were young and poor (now not young) we built a ton of cheap race engines using plastigage to measure. for tight clearances it would be better not to use grease, maybe spit, but grease has too much thickness to it, also as you stated away from the ends and the oil hole mostly because they ovalize in this area. the same goes for measuring with more precise instruments. thanks for the remainder and for teaching the young ones the art of practicality. regards. pete penca
Hi Mr. Pete, It's funny that you mentioned how you cleaned out that motor. It reminded me that when I used to do a lot of engine work, I would marvel at the photos in the shop manuals of the techs in their white lab coats (am I dating myself?) disassembling an engine and not having a speck of dirt on them :-) I couldn't look at an engine without getting dirty! As a matter of fact, my soon-to-be wife made me promise not to work on engines for at least two weeks before the wedding (44 years ago). Happy New Year!
mrpete, excellent as always, I used this method when I rebuilt my 49' John Deer A. I wish I had seen this video first. I was told to use this stuff but not exactly how. I finally figured it out and it worked like a charm. Tim
Great video and a very handy product that I never saw before. I have used cored solder to check diesel engine bump clearance by threading a length of solder through the injector hole and turning the engine over. Then gently pull out the solder and measure the thickness of the flattened end. If it broke off you would have to strip the head off to retrieve it so it was not a fool proof method. love your excellent videos, keep up the good work,
Hi mrpete. Excellent video tutorial. Just goes to show you do not need a machine for measurements. I used Plastigauge in the 70's for measuring shaft end float. What is also interesting (to me anyway) is that on the packaging the spelling is Plastigage but on both the UK and USA websites the spelling is Plastigauge. If I remember correctly the spelling on the UK packs was Plastigauge. Those B & S engines will run almost forever with huge clearances on the crank. I stripped one once that had a bit of a rattle and the clearance was .085" Thanks for sharing. regards from the UK
Outstanding video. Great subject, I remember using it back in 1983 while rebuilding a motor that turned the freon pump on a refrigerated (refer) trailer.
I'm familiar with Plastigauge, but never have had to use it yet. Looks like a pretty good method for measuring rods and mains; thanks for the demonstration Mr. Pete! LOL, "I like to measure things!"
It's an old school method, now frowned upon by manufacturers who demand more precision. However, as the gentleman states in the video, measuring instruments are only as accurate as the user's experience. As you can see it is pretty damn accurate, and cost effective. I'm surprised he mentioned using it in class. I would have thought instructors these days dumped the plastigauge for more expensive instruments. I was taught how to use it back in HS.
We had shop class at the Jr high school I went to when we did our small engine module they had several Briggs and Stratton engines with tool boxes for each. The class I was in only had 6 students so we each had our own engine to take apart The teacher was going step by step and going around the room helping the less mechanically inclined when he got to me I had my engine completely disassembled Carb and all ! He shook his head and said I hadn't planed on going that far I had it back together before the rest of the class. And was helping the others put theirs back together. Guess that;s why I'm a mechanic now Helpful hint if you use plastigage to check bearing clearance on a torque to turn bolted cap don't use an impact to do the turning it will squish the plastic thinner than it really is.
+fatboyfester I remembet that were always 1 or 2 boys in each class that were super fast. I would have them help put the valve keepers on on all the engines.(10 or 12)
I have used plastigage a lot over the years and find it to be very easy to use an accurate enough for most engine work. Even if you have all your machine work done by an engine machine shop. It pays to check every thing upon reassembly just to verify all the clearances are correct. I am relatively young (34) but I got most of my original training from old timers. They said that back in the days of having to replace bearings at less than a hundred thousand miles when you went down to the parts house to buy your parts for the rebuild they would throw the plastigage in the box with parts. No one ever charged for the plastigage. They hoped that by giving it to you it would get used. The idea was if the clearance was not right you would have the crank turned or remedy what ever the problem was and not try to blame them for bad or wrong bearings.
+John Germain - You could also use it to check that the angle of a morse taper is correct. Place a longer length along the taper, drive it home, pull it out. If the spread is not even from end to end, the taper angle is wrong in either the male or female part. You might have to experiment with just how hard to drive it home to get a good reading, but as Mr, Pete says, Plastigage is cheap enough. It won't tell you which part is wrong, but by comparing several tapers against each other, the "oddball" one will soon show itself.
Excellent video as usual. The only thing you might wish to add is pretty obvious to someone who has done this before but not so obvious to a first-timer. And that is: If the Plastigauge indicates that the gap is too wide (as was the case with yours), you can usually order replacement bearings of a slightly different size to take up that gap. And replacing those bearings as well as the oil rings around the piston are what constitutes the usual "rebuilding of an engine". Thanks again for the videos, sir.
+Ron Icard, do you mean that the new aluminum clamp around the steel shaft will have a smaller ID or is there a type of shim that sandwiches between them?
+Shane K Usually, there is a bearing on the inside of the clamp on both sides of the camshaft. When Mr. Pete takes off the cap and holds it up to the camera at the 7:25 mark, the shiny part on the inside you're seeing that rides on the camshaft is the bearing itself. It is thin and circular and fits into a groove in the cap so that everything touching the camshaft is the bearing (on both sides of the camshaft, by the way). If that bearing is worn out, you can measure it for what size you need for replacement and purchase replacement bearings. You slide those in to replace the worn out ones. At least, that's how it works on motorcycle engines that I've rebuilt. On those, Honda will provide you with 3 different size options, based on the tolerances that camshaft ended up spec'ing out to when it was built. Because the camshaft shouldn't wear down over time but the cam bearings will. So you just replace the worn out bearings with some of the original size. Hope that helps and I didn't make you more confused. Here's a photo: the 2 thin silver rings sitting on their sides are the cam bearings: www.highpowermedia.com/Content/Images/uploaded/RETM/36/Bearings%20-%20Cam%20bearings%202.jpg
I have used this system. Never seen anybody use grease to hold it. Why ? Because grease has thickness .You proved it in your vise test . The middle is wider were the grease was.Than the ends (no grease). The ends would be closer to actual clearance.Keep the videos coming I like them.
When I worked on Turbo Chargers we used thin ( .030 ) thick wax to measure the clearance between the rotorand the housing to determine how much we had to shim for the proper clearance. Same principal. thanks
This stuff was invented by Perfect Circle they also invented the vacuum modulated cruise control. I had a cousin who worked for them before Dana took them over.
When you have a hard and a soft material, as is the case with the bearing, it is often the hard material that is worn down... this is because the small hard dirt particles embeds itself in the soft material and abrades on the hard material ... For an interesting application of this look at the series 1 Lotus Elise, the first series with the aluminium brake rotors. It would seem that the rotors would wear out very fast but in fact the were very durable.. once a bit of the brake pad material were embedded into the aluminium the friction was between the brake pad and the pad material embedded into the rotor.
I'm puzzled about your test using the feeler gauges. Why is the Plastigage barrel shaped and how do you measure it? Would it still be barrel shaped if it went from edge to edge?
I find plastigage gets hard and crumbles after a couple of years,so if I haven't had a need for it in a quite a while I go buy some new stuff before starting a job
hellow friend perhaps im just sleepy but if the original journal size was suppose to be 750 then how could the crank be 749 ? should it grow the other direction ? to say 751 ? i mean the journal gets smaller and smaller i get that but the crank Babbitt should get bigger and bigger.
I'm an old man, and have known about Plastigage and the concept for many years, but this is my first time seeing it in action. Thanks! But I'm curious as to what remedy could be taken to correct that .006 or 7 thou excess clearance in that engine. Are undersize rod ends and caps available? Or would the journal be built up and then reground? Or is the trash heap the only recourse? Never mind what's economically practical.
Great demonstration. I have always known about plastigaauges but I have never tried to use one. I think you might like to see the youtube channel of Paul Joseph Watson. Thanks for the many videos.
+Amateur Redneck Workshop many years ago, a mechanic friend said that perfect circle piston rings were the BEST. now i have heard that general motors rings are the best.
Hi Lyle! Iha ve heard of this product but have never seen it. Could plastigage be used to set up gear clearance a right angle drive or a car differential?
+Robert Szasz @ 7:38 you can see the hole in the connecting rod, oil is splashed up to the piston and as it drains back, some oil enters that hole to supply oil. Newer ones had a much smaller hole at the bearing end, but the collection end of the hole acted as a cup to insure a supply of oil. I've also seen small engines with gerotor pumps driven off the cam gear, and some with piston pumps driven off an eccentric on the cam shaft.
I just about fell on my face when the guy at the hardware store told me that B&S went out of business. B&S has always been the best small engine. Whereas Tuthumpsy was always junk. Honda ran them out of business.
Very informative and concise video. What's with the guns and ammo? Are you telling us that you are the lone opposition to Obama in the state of Illinois?
Your video brings me back to my high school days at BOCES rebuilding my 1969 Buick Riviera 430 big block engine and learned to use those type feeler gauges. Good memories. Thank you for the informative videos. George.
+Yiorgos Kay Thanks for watching
I learned to use this back in the 1980s, in Aircraft Mechanic's school. Very handy little stuff indeed. Very quick and easy. Great to see that it's still being sold today...
Takes me back to 1965 at Burgard Vocational High School in Buffallo NY and my auto shop teacher Mr. Collandra who taught us about Plastigage.
Fascinating Lyle -- totally new to me, despite my advanced years!
Thanks for the education! :)
I remember Mr. Robert Tryon my Jr High METALS AND ELECTRICITY teacher in 1971 in our small engines training taught us about Plastigage ... Thanks for the refresher course Mr. Pete
Back in the day, we used plastigage to balance the combustion gaps on diesel engines and racing Volkswagens. Put the plastigage thread on top of the piston, then wind the engine over. do all pistons at once, then take the heads off and measure. Adjust the thickness of the individual head gaskets to get the same clearance on all pistons.
Brings back a lot of memories from my motorcycle engine rebuilding days... we used Plastigage aka "Plastismash" to measure rod and mainbearing clearances (Two piece rods and split main bearings only): Also, we used ordinary modeling clay or soft wax to measure piston-to-cylinder head and piston to valve clearance, too.
I've built many an engine using plastigage. Really good stuff. I didn't trust it at first and measured it just like you did. As long as you don't spin the journal you are gaging it is as accurate or better than a person with a micrometer, particularly if he is having a bad day. Good video. Keep them coming.
VERY INFORMATIVE MR. PETE. I HAVE NEVER SEEN THAT PRODUCT, BUT I CAN SEE HOW USEFUL IT CAN BE.
I WILL GET SOME TO KEEP ON HAND. THANKS
Built my first engine in about 59 using plasti an have done quite a few over the yrs. never had one fail,knock on wood,OOPS knocked over my beer, good video i think you explained it well if some people did'nt get it we would'nt want them building an engine anyhoo.
mr peterson, with all due respect i would like to comment on this, back when we were young and poor (now not young) we built a ton of cheap race engines using plastigage to measure. for tight clearances it would be better not to use grease, maybe spit, but grease has too much thickness to it, also as you stated away from the ends and the oil hole mostly because they ovalize in this area. the same goes for measuring with more precise instruments. thanks for the remainder and for teaching the young ones the art of practicality. regards. pete penca
Thanks again mr Pete. Best wishes for you and your family for the new year from Wales uk
Good job.Liked the class.On the front row.
Hi Mr. Pete,
It's funny that you mentioned how you cleaned out that motor. It reminded me that when I used to do a lot of engine work, I would marvel at the photos in the shop manuals of the techs in their white lab coats (am I dating myself?) disassembling an engine and not having a speck of dirt on them :-) I couldn't look at an engine without getting dirty! As a matter of fact, my soon-to-be wife made me promise not to work on engines for at least two weeks before the wedding (44 years ago). Happy New Year!
Excellent video demonstrating its use. Interesting how cheap and effective it is.
I like the way you proved it. well done
Loving you're videos mate!
mrpete, excellent as always, I used this method when I rebuilt my 49' John Deer A. I wish I had seen this video first. I was told to use this stuff but not exactly how. I finally figured it out and it worked like a charm.
Tim
Great video and a very handy product that I never saw before. I have used cored solder to check diesel engine bump clearance by threading a length of solder through the injector hole and turning the engine over. Then gently pull out the solder and measure the thickness of the flattened end. If it broke off you would have to strip the head off to retrieve it so it was not a fool proof method.
love your excellent videos, keep up the good work,
Hi mrpete. Excellent video tutorial. Just goes to show you do not need a machine for measurements. I used Plastigauge in the 70's for measuring shaft end float. What is also interesting (to me anyway) is that on the packaging the spelling is Plastigage but on both the UK and USA websites the spelling is Plastigauge. If I remember correctly the spelling on the UK packs was Plastigauge. Those B & S engines will run almost forever with huge clearances on the crank. I stripped one once that had a bit of a rattle and the clearance was .085" Thanks for sharing. regards from the UK
Another great demo. I've heard and seen it but never used it.
Outstanding video. Great subject, I remember using it back in 1983 while rebuilding a motor that turned the freon pump on a refrigerated (refer) trailer.
Totally awesome to see those, now defunct, Rockford Screw Product cap screws!
I'm familiar with Plastigauge, but never have had to use it yet. Looks like a pretty good method for measuring rods and mains; thanks for the demonstration Mr. Pete!
LOL, "I like to measure things!"
And two years later it's still great info, so much good stuff from Mr Pete!
Lyle, I could see this being useful in the die shop for checking clearances, setting dies, and the like. Your friend, Cliff
+Clifford Fender i like that idea quite a lot
Completely new to me...! I never saw such a method. Thank you.
+Joss Fitzsimons Thanks for watching
It's an old school method, now frowned upon by manufacturers who demand more precision. However, as the gentleman states in the video, measuring instruments are only as accurate as the user's experience. As you can see it is pretty damn accurate, and cost effective.
I'm surprised he mentioned using it in class. I would have thought instructors these days dumped the plastigauge for more expensive instruments. I was taught how to use it back in HS.
Another informative video. Thanks.
We had shop class at the Jr high school I went to when we did our small engine module they had several Briggs and Stratton engines with tool boxes for each. The class I was in only had 6 students so we each had our own engine to take apart The teacher was going step by step and going around the room helping the less mechanically inclined when he got to me I had my engine completely disassembled Carb and all ! He shook his head and said I hadn't planed on going that far I had it back together before the rest of the class. And was helping the others put theirs back together. Guess that;s why I'm a mechanic now
Helpful hint if you use plastigage to check bearing clearance on a torque to turn bolted cap don't use an impact to do the turning it will squish the plastic thinner than it really is.
+fatboyfester I remembet that were always 1 or 2 boys in each class that were super fast. I would have them help put the valve keepers on on all the engines.(10 or 12)
I use it often , Good product .. Thumbs up !!
Thanks Mr pete 👍 very interesting.
Mr Pete I see ammo on the bench this time.
Nice video , reminds me of my school days back in the day.
I have used plastigage a lot over the years and find it to be very easy to use an accurate enough for most engine work. Even if you have all your machine work done by an engine machine shop. It pays to check every thing upon reassembly just to verify all the clearances are correct. I am relatively young (34) but I got most of my original training from old timers. They said that back in the days of having to replace bearings at less than a hundred thousand miles when you went down to the parts house to buy your parts for the rebuild they would throw the plastigage in the box with parts. No one ever charged for the plastigage. They hoped that by giving it to you it would get used. The idea was if the clearance was not right you would have the crank turned or remedy what ever the problem was and not try to blame them for bad or wrong bearings.
Good demonstration
have used it in the shop where i used to work to check the taper of a prop shaft and coupling. works great.
+John Germain - You could also use it to check that the angle of a morse taper is correct. Place a longer length along the taper, drive it home, pull it out. If the spread is not even from end to end, the taper angle is wrong in either the male or female part. You might have to experiment with just how hard to drive it home to get a good reading, but as Mr, Pete says, Plastigage is cheap enough. It won't tell you which part is wrong, but by comparing several tapers against each other, the "oddball" one will soon show itself.
I've never seen that brand of dental floss before.. Learn something new every day
Mr. Pete. Thank you. I've heard about plastigap, but never understood the what, how and why.
An SK Wayne tool set. I inherited my Dad's. He was from up the road in Alton. They must have been popular tools in the Midwest many years ago.
Excellent video as usual. The only thing you might wish to add is pretty obvious to someone who has done this before but not so obvious to a first-timer. And that is:
If the Plastigauge indicates that the gap is too wide (as was the case with yours), you can usually order replacement bearings of a slightly different size to take up that gap. And replacing those bearings as well as the oil rings around the piston are what constitutes the usual "rebuilding of an engine".
Thanks again for the videos, sir.
+Ron Icard thanks for watching
+Ron Icard, do you mean that the new aluminum clamp around the steel shaft will have a smaller ID or is there a type of shim that sandwiches between them?
+Shane K Usually, there is a bearing on the inside of the clamp on both sides of the camshaft. When Mr. Pete takes off the cap and holds it up to the camera at the 7:25 mark, the shiny part on the inside you're seeing that rides on the camshaft is the bearing itself. It is thin and circular and fits into a groove in the cap so that everything touching the camshaft is the bearing (on both sides of the camshaft, by the way).
If that bearing is worn out, you can measure it for what size you need for replacement and purchase replacement bearings. You slide those in to replace the worn out ones.
At least, that's how it works on motorcycle engines that I've rebuilt. On those, Honda will provide you with 3 different size options, based on the tolerances that camshaft ended up spec'ing out to when it was built. Because the camshaft shouldn't wear down over time but the cam bearings will. So you just replace the worn out bearings with some of the original size. Hope that helps and I didn't make you more confused.
Here's a photo: the 2 thin silver rings sitting on their sides are the cam bearings:
www.highpowermedia.com/Content/Images/uploaded/RETM/36/Bearings%20-%20Cam%20bearings%202.jpg
I still have one of them and it is in great condition and runs good.
Awesome
excellent camera work in this one Pete
Thanks, glad you noticed
thanks, it was new to me
I have used this system. Never seen anybody use grease to hold it. Why ? Because grease has thickness .You proved it in your vise test . The middle is wider were the grease was.Than the ends (no grease). The ends would be closer to actual clearance.Keep the videos coming I like them.
When I worked on Turbo Chargers we used thin ( .030 ) thick wax to measure the clearance between the rotorand the housing to determine how much we had to shim for the proper clearance. Same principal. thanks
+Tom Bellus Thanks for watching
Nice vid! I've never heard of plastigage!
+MrBen527 Thanks for watching
I had never heard of that before... I'll store that away in my dusty brain for when it's needed... thanks!!!
Used the red for checking main and rod bearings in Detroit diesel two-strokes for 3 decades.
👍
Thanks and happy 2016 year .
+Robert Patoine Thanks for watching
i had a nice torque wrench until my friend undun his truck wheel nuts with it i was not happy... thanks for the video sir....
+Kevin Willis With "friends like that..."
Thank you Mr Pete!
Is that crack in the casting at the corner of the Z axis dovetail gotten any larger? Assuming that's what it is, of course.
This stuff was invented by Perfect Circle they also invented the vacuum modulated cruise control. I had a cousin who worked for them before Dana took them over.
When you have a hard and a soft material, as is the case with the bearing, it is often the hard material that is worn down... this is because the small hard dirt particles embeds itself in the soft material and abrades on the hard material ... For an interesting application of this look at the series 1 Lotus Elise, the first series with the aluminium brake rotors. It would seem that the rotors would wear out very fast but in fact the were very durable.. once a bit of the brake pad material were embedded into the aluminium the friction was between the brake pad and the pad material embedded into the rotor.
+Tacit Tacet Great explanation
I use it to check the bolt face to barrel clearance when fitting a new barrel on a precision rifle for target and long range varmint hunting.
Never heard or seen of it before, fascinating ! :O
I wonder if, with the use of a machined chamber gauge, it could be used to measure headspace in firearm?
Learn a lot on your movies
+Larry Doucet Thanks for watching
Most interesting. I am curious to know why you say English whilst we say Imperial. Happy New Year, Sir.
This is an update of a very much older technique used on large machinery, using lead wire, still used today.
I'm puzzled about your test using the feeler gauges. Why is the Plastigage barrel shaped and how do you measure it? Would it still be barrel shaped if it went from edge to edge?
I find plastigage gets hard and crumbles after a couple of years,so if I haven't had a need for it in a quite a while I go buy some new stuff before starting a job
hellow friend perhaps im just sleepy but if the original journal size was suppose to be 750 then how could the crank be 749 ? should it grow the other direction ? to say 751 ? i mean the journal gets smaller and smaller i get that but the crank Babbitt should get bigger and bigger.
I thought the exact same thing and wanted to read the comments to see if anyone else caught that
That was .009 BY A MILE!!
Time for new glasses
+Fishkiller 41 I reckon it was by .001.
With miles like that, you should try drag racing. ;)
I'm an old man, and have known about Plastigage and the concept for many years, but this is my first time seeing it in action. Thanks!
But I'm curious as to what remedy could be taken to correct that .006 or 7 thou excess clearance in that engine. Are undersize rod ends and caps available? Or would the journal be built up and then reground? Or is the trash heap the only recourse? Never mind what's economically practical.
It's time for the scrap pile if there is that much wear
An extruded wax based material that was made where I use to work before they closed up.
Rockford Specialty Products fasteners :)
its good for junk yard engine checks if your in need of a half decant engine but have no money for a reconditioned one
metric makes so much sense God dammit
Great demonstration. I have always known about plastigaauges but I have never tried to use one. I think you might like to see the youtube channel of Paul Joseph Watson. Thanks for the many videos.
+Amateur Redneck Workshop many years ago, a mechanic friend said that perfect circle piston rings were the BEST. now i have heard that general motors rings are the best.
Hi Lyle! Iha ve heard of this product but have never seen it. Could plastigage be used to set up gear clearance a right angle drive or a car differential?
+JC S I doubt it--at least, I never heard of it used that way
+mrpete222 Ok thank you!
Blue is for GM engines.
we see a 45 maybe 375 and 460 of 50 cal. what up???
My guess is .30-30 and a .22 magnum?
Oh and the 3rd round fell on the floor!
The oiling system is just dragging a rod through the oil and flinging it around? Well that's ... simple.
+Robert Szasz @ 7:38 you can see the hole in the connecting rod, oil is splashed up to the piston and as it drains back, some oil enters that hole to supply oil. Newer ones had a much smaller hole at the bearing end, but the collection end of the hole acted as a cup to insure a supply of oil.
I've also seen small engines with gerotor pumps driven off the cam gear, and some with piston pumps driven off an eccentric on the cam shaft.
I just about fell on my face when the guy at the hardware store told me that B&S went out of business. B&S has always been the best small engine. Whereas Tuthumpsy was always junk. Honda ran them out of business.
I thought they joined up with Muray or simplicity?
My source may have been wrong. IDK.
Briggs is still around. Tecumseh sold off its engine manufacturing, they only do AC products now.
Flag, gun, ammo. Yep, just a subtle hint...
Very informative and concise video. What's with the guns and ammo? Are you telling us that you are the lone opposition to Obama in the state of Illinois?
Thank you Tubalcain! Very interesting......... :o) O,,,
you throw in an odd piece in most of your vids. 50 caliber bullet this time