When trying to decide how much distortion is enough, I usually do a pinch harmonics test. I do pinch harmonics over and over on the low E string (since it's the thickest gauge and harder to work with), and stop RIGHT at the point where the harmonics begin to sustain. It's worked wonders for me.
for metal, i use the Master of Puppets Riff-test if the lowest notes smear at all into each other, it's too much gain. nowadays i have some guitars set up and spec'd so well that i barely use any gain at all to get there. i used to use way too much gain when i was beginning, diming it and then pulling back a smidge. now i never need go past 11'o clock on a Mark IV.
@Jordan i think that wont matter just keep the gain where you can keep the higher strings clean sounding if your running up and down doing a scale slowly I guess, too much distortion you will have a harder time palm muting
I hate that argument because if I were to do a cover of my favorite band, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Once you understand the Dynamics and nuances a guitar player uses, you won't know the difference. And that's not tone in my opinion, that's more relating to song material.
@@beast99dp26 so true. Since I wrote that comment, I’ve come down on that opinion. So much more than just gear goes into tone. Talk to any pro bassist and they’ll open your mind. Gear still helps though.
Metalzone is actually really good if you leave everything at noon and only use your amp for eq also don't turn the level or distortion up past noon either and you'll be all set!
So many don't understand this!!!!! Yes, a good guitar tone is needed, but you have to have an awesome bass tone to go a long with the guitar!!! Also, "tone stacking", or doing multiple guitar tracks in a mix will make a huge impact on your tone when recording!!! In a live setting, you have to have a good bass tone!!!
Basically, you made a tutorial on how to use a digital FX unit. I can't spin a knob and select 200 different cab/amp combos in the real world. I've got 3 amps. Farty McPracticeface, 80s Chorus Brotato and 70's Dr. Icepick Q Facemelt 130 watt, super clean Tube amp running the Scoliosis Thunderdome 2x12 reflex. There are no control elements other than what they were built with.
Exactly.....!!! The vid was a good idea, but not everyone has a $1500 Helix, or $300 software that will load IR's. But the truth is, if your using a cab, you will be limited to what you will ultimately get. I have 11 cabs, and about 40 speakers in boxes that I regularly change out for different things, buit very few people have that available...I tend to advise guys if they are going to play live, work on a rig. If your just going to record in your room, invest in software. Even the guitar really doesnt matter much through most software. I can make the crappiest guitar sound great through Amp FX...using IR's as well....live though...its a tone search.
Actually there a bunch of free IR loaders available, and most IR packs cost less than 10$, not to mention the thousands of free IRs that float around online.
Yeah, I've tried alot of them out. Many just sound like the ones you usually get with the software you have. Some are pretty good. Some not even close. But I know what you mean. Its out there...alot depends on the plug ins your using in your DAW. But as posted above, many people dont have hardware or software to go this route. Just amps and cabs or combos, so dialing in a really good tone is dependant on what you have to work with. Like the EQ of the amp setting in the Helix could apply to a physical amp head. The EQ adjustments to the pedal in the Helix could transfer to real as well, but many people, especially starting out, will only have what they have in terms of cabs and speakers. Not IR's to try out and tweak with mic placement and all. So. many times, as the poster above stated, you have to use what you got...still a good useful vid...but theres definitely several ways to go. I have to say though.. I LOVED the discriptions of Doug's gear...that was good...LOL
Blaydrnnnr Honestly, I prefer real amps for recording and amp sims live. Makes it easier to get from show to show and the best results possible in the studio. Don't get me wrong, I love real amps. However amp sims aren't bad either. Depends on what you invest in and not expecting an exact replica of your favorite amp.
Hey Trey. You probably already know this , but if you put a looper block first in the chain you can loop a riff and then scan through all the different cabs or ir’s and change amp eq and everything. Great video!
"No matter how hard I play, I'm not gonna get a heavy, distorted guitar sound just using my hands." Proceeds to get heavy, distorted sound, using only hands.
He didn't get the heavy sound merely with his hands, and obviously there is a HUGE difference between what sound he ended up getting and what YOU or anyone else can merely do with your hands. Repeat after me, NIVEN42: "These two sounds are NOT THE SAME THING." Got that? Now give yourself a thousand slaps in the head every day for a week, and say "I will not write stupid shit on a public forum ever again."
Robert G. ....that seems to be the Metallica tone pedal. Boss should just call it that, get every Metallica wannabe out there to buy one and pay me 1% commission so I can afford a Helix, interface, Dell computer with tons of memory and some monitors.
80% of your tone is in your amp 10% is your pickups 5% is your FX 5% is everything else Trolls will argue. To them, I say try getting a brutal tone from a Fender Princeton. It's not happening. Try getting tiptoe through the tulips clean sounds from a Krankenstein on the Dime channel. Again, it's not happening. Plug a $100 guitar into a $1000 amp. Guaranteed you get a way better sound than you would with a $1000 guitar plugged into a $100 amp. No amount of hands or pedals is going to save that tone.
Thanks for spending so much time on the Cab section! I've seen so many people just blindly use any cab sims and then split hairs in their amp stage only to end up with half-baked tones.
OMFG Trey. You fooking KILLED my FLUB. Oh thank Bog. I have a Reezafratzitz that I love for high gain into a clean amp (one of the only distortions my 71 Fender Twin will tolerate) and sounds great through my Blackheart Little Giant into a Carvin 412 for bedroom practice. Here's the thing, I just got a Kiesel Vader VM7, and the FLUB got really bad. Now, I have a Voodoo Labs Sparkle Drive, which is a TS9 circuit with an additional clean bypass knob to pass some clean signal through, but I had it set wrong. Had the output low, gain high and tone low. Went low gain, higher on tone, and 75% on the output, rolled off some of the bass on the Reezafratzitz, pushed a little more bass on the amp. whoa! Hyooge. Great thanks. Now I don't want to put down the VM7. This will absolutely do the trick until I scrape the change together for a 6505 MH or Combo.
Now one thing I noticed once your friend started switching the amps: different mic types were included in the cabinets. Do you think the sound may be affected by you switching the mic type on the cabinet you select? This is a very informative video! Thanks for putting time into teaching this stuff!
The Mark IV also has the infamous Mesa 5 band eq, Many modelers have a 3 band para-eq. The best way I've found to simulate this are focusing these bands on Mesa's 3 middle sliders: 240, 750, and 2200 Hz. With a GSP1101, I have found that +3, -3 and +3 dB respectively, is the best and most "common" type of setting with this amp model. Something to think about...
I just want to point out on factor u missed out with the helix Cabs, you can change what microphone the cab is using for its sound which drastically changes the cab tone. Go from a condenser mic to a ribbon mic and change the distances from the cab.
There's nothing to fight. Without any empirical evidence to back up your claim, your comment is essentially useless. Besides, sound and tone is the exact same thing. Good day sir.
I dont think so, sound is the general for everything like tone, loudness, frequency etc..... Tone is just a component of sound referred as timbre or quality in physics.... I am sorry for ur illiterate self to find it hard to understand physics... But then not everything is for everyone.... We need some illiterate labour class in the world... U must be one of them who spends life "uselessly" Anyways, good day "Sir"
YOUR SO RIGHT, TONE IS 90% IN I WAY YOU FRET NOTES YOUR PICK ATTACK ECT. SEEMS YOUR TONE IS ALWAYS BETTER ON TUNES YOU KNOW AND EASILY PLAY BECAUSE YOUR PLAYING IS MUCH MORE DELIBERATE, YOU KNOW WHEN TO SOFTEN YOUR TONE WITH GENTLE PICKING OR HAMMER INTO A PINCH HARMONIC FROM HELL BECAUSE YOU KNOW AXACTLY HOW TO MANIPULATE YOUR AXE AND OWN THAT TUNE, SO STOP PLAYING WITH YOUR KNOB SLOB AND SPEND MORE TIME PRACTICING YOUR TECHNIQUE. IDIOTS THINK THEY CAN BUY A $5000 RIG AND THINK WHY DOES MY TONE SUCK, ITS NOT YOUR TONE THAT SUCKS, ANYONE NOTICE REALLY SKILLED PLAYERS ALWAYS SOUND GOOD? SELDOM ARE THEY ON THE KNOBS TRYING TO RUB SOME TONE OUT, ITS THAT DUDE WHOS ALWAYS PLAYING WITH HIS HEAD INSTEAD OF PLAYING WITH HIS AXE. ID RATHER HAVE GREAT SKILLS THAN GREAT EQUIPMENT ANY DAY. IF YOU DONT AGREE THEN GET BACK TO YOUR KNOB SLOB
Dude I was getting so demotivated, I bought this incredible amp and felt like I just could not for the life of me get that crunchy smooth distortion tone and finally this video helped me crack the code thank you so much dude!
Thanks man. This was the best how to get started quick and done video I’ve seen on heavy Helix tones. I often see bashing of the Helix for Metal but I can’t fathom this thing can’t get the tone you’re looking for. It’s all about trying different things. Especially the cabs. I would have liked a cab settings bit though. I don’t mess with mine except the mic type as I have no clue what the others do, much like the power amp settings you mentioned. Thanks again.
The part about "develop a weak picking hand" happened to me with but with weak vibrato laying too much on the tremolo/floyd, recently start playing with a hipshot bridge equip guitar and realize that.
DevilMayAsian ..... Thank you....this should be a tutorial on which amp would be best for a good metal sound...start at the most expensive, then work down.
Great video! The only thing I think would've been nice to say was that the Mark amp's tonestack sits in the signal chain before the distortion happens which makes it more of a tweakable clean boost for the second stage where the signal starts to get distorted. On most other amps the tonestack is the last tone shaping element of the preamp. In the Mark amps it's where the 5-band eq sits. Keep it up, dude! :)
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awesome video!! imo one of the most important things in the master section itself is just the mastervolume ... this can totally transform the sound from tight to saggy muddy and compressed ... just like on a real amp ...
I have an actual amp and cab so I can't go back and forth. I guess I'm just stuck with my EVH 5150 iii 50 Watt, EVH 5150 4x12, and Orange 2x12. Hopefully I can find a usable tone somewhere in there. 👍🤘
Alex Ramos Dude I'm just screwing around, I love my rig. I use a Horizon Precision Drive and an MXR Smart Gate. Plus an MXR 10 band EQ, MXR Carbon Copy, and Hall of Fame Reverb.👍
Could you do a similar video, but how to dial different kinds of amps for metal? Most videos I've seen on how to dial in an amp for metal, they use 5150s or Mesa Boogies. I'd like to see something with Marshalls, Splawns, Friedmans, PRS Archons, etc.
My 2 cents. I mix tones like that frequently and they don't sound very good live. And yes, most of them come out of Spyders but occasionally someone will bring in an Axe-FX with some super scooped over saturated tone and it just doesn't work. Maybe its cool in headphones or at home but if you ever want to be heard in a room you need some mids. Some guys come in and their entire sound is this wall of muddy mids and they hit the other extreme. Turn down the gain, balance out the EQ a bit more and try to run through something 'real' - od pedal, analog cab sim, something, especially for live. One of the biggest mistakes I see is way too much low end. You want your sound to be 'crushing' with a full band, not solo, unless you want that just for at home. Getting your 'at home crushing sound' in the context of a live band is the trick. The issue with these digital units is that they are unbelievably finicky, you really have to labor over your sound to get something good. When the tonal options are opened up to nearly infinite, finding the sweet spots becomes much harder. Some of the best sounds I've heard are from Marshall stacks that are barely on (for room noise purposes). I've heard guys run high gain with pedals on Fender Reverb amps that sound better than Axe-FX units. I find the more digital-esque the rig is the more time I have to spend having the guitarist tweak his sound into something usable. Running it through a solid state preamp and into a real speaker would probably help even. That said, if you know the sound you like and are familiar with it, you can get pretty convincing on the new modelers. I've had a lot of guys ditch their tube combos and just run a Joyo American and get the best tone they've had (blues & clean). Using a cab sim from a well known or popular speaker can also help a lot - so many of these give speakers that will just be a waste of time for most. All the tone in the hands comments are hilarious. Between identical rigs and different players, yes, better/worse in that context will be down to the player. Between a $6000 rig and some 10 watt solid state amp, there are simply things you won't be able to do. Sometimes you just need to get the gear you are trying to model. Its one of the hardest lessons I learned because pros and players constantly went on about getting the same tones through digital 'cheats'. If you want metal buy a high gain tube Marshall, Mesa Rectifier type, or 5150 type head and run it through any size cab you want to carry using a well documented and 'industry standard' type speaker like a v30, G12H, greenback, etc. Or get a modeler like this and run it through a preamp into a real cab. Then, once you know what 'real' sounds like and you know what you want, then you could get some digital unit and try to match it. If you want crushing metal tones with real gear to get some ideas check out the cabinet shootout by Spectre Studios here on youtube. Best video I've seen on one of the most overlooked parts of the chain by far.
First, I'll spend a good bit of money getting myself the quintessential Metal amplifier, it's possibly a Peavey 6505 or a Mesa Boogie Dual. I've heard on all the online forums that this is about as Metal as you can get. Clean channel Cheap drive pedal ALL THE GAIN! ALL THE GAIN! METAL ZONE! NO MIDS! MORE GAIN! SLAYER! ALL THE GAIN!!!!!!!!!!
Great video! I've been playing for a long time, I have multiple high gain tube heads and a couple of cabinets, plus some digital amp sim stuff. I like to think i'm pretty knowledgeable - I still learned a thing or two here. Thanks!
SG, Marshall style amp, Tube Screamer. Simple and effective. Also, if you're recording music, a great bass tone does WONDERS!! A P Bass, J Bass, Stingray, etc, would do so much in a mix
Rosen Digital impulses are superb for mixing all other Line 6 processors besides the helix with. I got a POD X3 live and for its age its sounds pretty close to Helix and the ElevenRack . And it also has midi so, for the price, you cannot beat it.
tube amp (with proper cab)...crunch channel...Bass 6, Mids 8, Treble 5, dry crunched tone (like Malcom Young) pushed with a Tubescreamer (Level high, Gain low, Tone just above 12 o clock)...everybody should know that by now...
Great vid. You really explained everything in detail, not just what but why. Awesome. Enough of this will translate to my Line-6 POD xt Live. I'm a big fan of the Greenback 25 cab. You get plenty of that low end wall shaking reverberating sound with muted power chords. For those who don't have equipment, you can pick up a used Line 6 kidney bean for short money. Just make sure you have a humbucker pickup at the bridge for a heavy sound.
You made a good point about not cranking the treble, BUT, the EQ section on a Mark IV is quite different than let's say a Rectifier. Cranking the treble and turning down the bass on a Mark IV actually eliminates your need for an overdrive.
That's a great topic, although it's a bit of a can of worms hahahaha. What you're hearing in this one is an IR of an SM57 right on the cone, straight on, smack in the middle of the speaker. Dead simple, hard to fuck up, great for heavy music. There's loads of other good ways to do it, I'll have to start cooking up a video on the topic.
Great information!!! Thank that give me more clarity about tone, I have a EVH 100w with a G system and I found that if I use a G system parametric EQ in the loop I can get pretty good tone, but some times I lose mid so I add more in the amp itself. Thanks again.
Cool video, but i find it weird to refine your tone for 13 minutes and THEN ONLY check out impulse responses, which affect the tone A LOT. I would start with a decent base tone (in like 2 minutes : EQ at noon, right gain amount, tube screamer or not), and then check out impulse responses, and then only tweak the tone further when the right IR is found.
Thank you very much for making this video man seriously. I've been playing for 20 years and I'm still open for educating myself anything to improve technique, tone, style, etc. I am currently running a Ibanez 100w tone blaster amp head through a 1960A Marshall cab with a digitech jam man, and rp300A. I cant really find a tone that I like, but this will help with the options that I have currently. Good content! Thank you!
Good video, sometimes though this all comes down to ear of the beholder. It also depends on what kind of sound you are trying to get. Are you just experimenting with the settings? Or is there a certain sound you hear in your head that you are trying to bring to life? I personally use a processor, and I usually tweak all the way through all the settings for as many times as it takes to get it right for me. Also, sometimes you really don't know for sure how your guitar really sounds until it's in a mix with other instruments.
I have a distortion pedal that has a “Bloodbath” mode. Nothing can touch it. It has a “”Tighten” knob and a “Tone Shaper” knob as well as a “Mids Kill” switch. Built in 12 band EQ and built in dual core noise gate that is adjustable. Metal AF 🤘🏻
Ok, everyone, stfu! Gear and settings will help you get the tone you're look for, not your hands. The major factors in getting over saturated metal tones like the one in this video are: the right pickups, eq and gain settings, amp head & cab at the very least. An overdrive or an extra EQ can help you shape the tone if the before mentioned gear can't get you close to what your looking for. Major factor for clean tones are the right tone wood, pickups and amp. Use a little delay and some modulation, like a chorus to keep the signal from being too dry. You can only make the gear sound bad ass if you have good technique, that is where your hands come into the equation. Trey touched on this at the beginning of video, 0:46 .
What a lot of people tend to forget, or not understand when searching for the all mighty guitar tone to stomp all other guitar tones is, you also will want to have an awesome bass guitar tone!!!! In both live settings, and in a studio setting ( but in a studio setting you can "tone stack"... meaning have multiple guitar and bass tracks to thicken up your sound tone) So kiddos, don't forget about the bass guitar tone!!! They are actually way more important than what you might think!!!
Just subscribed after watching this it was very helpful I have Line 6 Spider V, I know I’m probably gonna get laughed at for it, but I’ve been using the app for the amp and this has helped me a bunch thanks trey. Cheers from New Mexico.
Hey look, it’s the same modeler I use! Trey, if you can, you gotta update the Helix firmware, cause the latest amp they put on is the Friedman BE-100 and it just kills every other metal amp in the box!
Tone is the ha.... oh wait you already covered that. But for real, I wish a video like this existed when I was trying to figure how to improve my tone when I was younger and had crappier gear. It's funny though, because the tone you came up with here is not far at all from my rig now, with a TS mini into a Mesa Mark V 35 at it's core.
I've owned the helix since its birth & I gotta say this video has explained amp settings better than any other I've seen (& I've seen afew 🤣) Good job 🤘
Tha toanz in your hands. Nah but in all seriousness, I put a boss metal zone in front of my line 6 spider IV and it blows all metal tones I see on TH-cam out of the water.
Meshuggah Fan8675 haha Some Line 6 settings are very useable and it takes some time (a fairly ridiculous amount of time), but a good metal tone can be had from the Metal Zone. Probably one of the distortion pedals that I despise most, but it CAN be done. I used it throughout my entire days in a metal band and it did the job. Gave me the sound I needed through about 16 or so shows played, with compliments to my sound. Its passable if dialed in.
I use IR's with real 1x12 Blackstar cab. U can call me sick, BUT! For home practice it makes ALL the difference comparing to the monitors (i have Yamaha HS7). Yes, monitors sound good, until you swap them for real cab (if you haven't 4x12) + some Mesa Trad or Marshall 1960 4x12 IR. I was happy as a child when i first used it. Sometimes you just need to boost 1-2k on th EQ and it sounds badass.
Good vid on EQ'ing a bit to get more of what you want, but of course, if you have a cab, you will ultimately be limited in what you can get. The Helix, load boxes, IR's and such have all come into their own for one reason. Noise. I'm old school, still take days to mic cabs, A/B heads, pedals, etc....to record. But most people dont have that option, AND CANT even if they have the stuff. Noise. You can dial in a decent tone, and cab, with your headphones on. Cant do that with a vintage amp and cabs. They need to push to get to that sweet spot. That means freakin loud. ( Ever heard a Hiwatt through a Marshall 4 x 12 cab??? It'll make you dizzy, deaf, and your neighbors will hate you..) Take into account as well, noisy room, noise from mics and cables and power supplies, all taken out by the use of software. Its not a bad thing, just different. With the stuff available these days, it can be done through headphones. Makes it more accessible to many, ( if you can justify over a $1000 minimum for a good processor like the Helix, $1500'ish, Black Widow, $2000, Axe Effects III, $3500, The OX loadbox, $1300...etc ) and makes it quicker by far for many. There are cheaper ways, Bias Amp, Bias Amp FX, software like that. But you need the pro versions to use IR's.
The eq on the Mark series work before the gain stages, so you're affecting the tone of your pickups (screamer 808 here) before they're distorted and not the tone of the amp. Go to page 3 of the model and you should have the controls for the graphic eq Mark amps have and adjust the amp's tone there. Great informations nevertheless!
When trying to decide how much distortion is enough, I usually do a pinch harmonics test. I do pinch harmonics over and over on the low E string (since it's the thickest gauge and harder to work with), and stop RIGHT at the point where the harmonics begin to sustain. It's worked wonders for me.
Zeroaddone that’s a cool guide, like the simplicity of that!
we got a genius over here
for metal, i use the Master of Puppets Riff-test
if the lowest notes smear at all into each other, it's too much gain.
nowadays i have some guitars set up and spec'd so well that i barely use any gain at all to get there.
i used to use way too much gain when i was beginning, diming it and then pulling back a smidge.
now i never need go past 11'o clock on a Mark IV.
Interesting, will give it a try 😀
@Jordan i think that wont matter just keep the gain where you can keep the higher strings clean sounding if your running up and down doing a scale slowly I guess, too much distortion you will have a harder time palm muting
Watching with my Squier strat and Fender champion 20
GeraldTheLizard 187 honestly exactly the same
F in the chat
Got the 40 it aint bad
I’m with my squier jaguar and champion 40😂
ProCo RAT with a TS9 in front, or swap the bridge pickup for a mini JB
1. Buy a 5150
2. Plug in guitar
3. Play
just add long hair and questionable life choices and you too can shred your way to the top of the 80's charts
@@stevestevestevesteve6466 nah, just Eddie van Halen's hot rodded marshal haha
you forgot the cab
4. Sound like everyone else.
👴🏻 love this tone
You're my hero for mentioning that you can't actually get good tone using just your hands and a guitar.
i agree. i very agree.
I hate that argument because if I were to do a cover of my favorite band, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Once you understand the Dynamics and nuances a guitar player uses, you won't know the difference. And that's not tone in my opinion, that's more relating to song material.
you ALSO need...ears
preferable ones that are not tone-deaf
Wrong though. All the gear in the world won't save most guitarists
@@beast99dp26 so true. Since I wrote that comment, I’ve come down on that opinion. So much more than just gear goes into tone. Talk to any pro bassist and they’ll open your mind. Gear still helps though.
Tons of bass. Tons of treble. Tons of gain. NO. MIDS.
(metalzooone, slayeeeeeer)
ALL THE GAIN!!!!!!
You won’t be haired
GAAAAAAAIIINNNNNNN
recipe for MUUUUSHSHSSHSHSHSHSH
then you cant be haired
Metalzone is actually really good if you leave everything at noon and only use your amp for eq also don't turn the level or distortion up past noon either and you'll be all set!
Answer: Have a good bass guitar crushing tone in the mix
So many don't understand this!!!!! Yes, a good guitar tone is needed, but you have to have an awesome bass tone to go a long with the guitar!!! Also, "tone stacking", or doing multiple guitar tracks in a mix will make a huge impact on your tone when recording!!! In a live setting, you have to have a good bass tone!!!
Hell yes! True story!
Basically, you made a tutorial on how to use a digital FX unit. I can't spin a knob and select 200 different cab/amp combos in the real world. I've got 3 amps. Farty McPracticeface, 80s Chorus Brotato and 70's Dr. Icepick Q Facemelt 130 watt, super clean Tube amp running the Scoliosis Thunderdome 2x12 reflex. There are no control elements other than what they were built with.
You can actually transfer everything up until he starts discussing the cab sims and IRs to a real rig.
Exactly.....!!! The vid was a good idea, but not everyone has a $1500 Helix, or $300 software that will load IR's. But the truth is, if your using a cab, you will be limited to what you will ultimately get. I have 11 cabs, and about 40 speakers in boxes that I regularly change out for different things, buit very few people have that available...I tend to advise guys if they are going to play live, work on a rig. If your just going to record in your room, invest in software. Even the guitar really doesnt matter much through most software. I can make the crappiest guitar sound great through Amp FX...using IR's as well....live though...its a tone search.
Actually there a bunch of free IR loaders available, and most IR packs cost less than 10$, not to mention the thousands of free IRs that float around online.
Yeah, I've tried alot of them out. Many just sound like the ones you usually get with the software you have. Some are pretty good. Some not even close. But I know what you mean. Its out there...alot depends on the plug ins your using in your DAW. But as posted above, many people dont have hardware or software to go this route. Just amps and cabs or combos, so dialing in a really good tone is dependant on what you have to work with. Like the EQ of the amp setting in the Helix could apply to a physical amp head. The EQ adjustments to the pedal in the Helix could transfer to real as well, but many people, especially starting out, will only have what they have in terms of cabs and speakers. Not IR's to try out and tweak with mic placement and all. So. many times, as the poster above stated, you have to use what you got...still a good useful vid...but theres definitely several ways to go. I have to say though.. I LOVED the discriptions of Doug's gear...that was good...LOL
Blaydrnnnr Honestly, I prefer real amps for recording and amp sims live. Makes it easier to get from show to show and the best results possible in the studio. Don't get me wrong, I love real amps. However amp sims aren't bad either. Depends on what you invest in and not expecting an exact replica of your favorite amp.
Hey Trey. You probably already know this , but if you put a looper block first in the chain you can loop a riff and then scan through all the different cabs or ir’s and change amp eq and everything. Great video!
I'm actually working on a video about using a looper to dial in an amp, I didn't think to use the one in the Helix, that's smart thinking!
This is what I do too! Such a great feature.
Thats an old school trick...I was taught that decades ago... Good point bringing that up!!!
if you can't distort your guitar with your hands you need to work on your technique, bro
Dank if your fingers are not delay then you cant play
If your hands can’t control your mids then you won’t get no kids
If your fingers can’t phaser then you should get tasered
i didnt even notice i rhymed, touché
If your fingers can’t gain then just sell your signal chain, stop playing guitar and get back in your lane
I like a nice, tight low end too Trey
Your advice and insight from 7:00-8:09 is spot on! Awesome job Trey
I’m pretty sure that when people say “tone is in the hands”, they mean that what you’re playing matters more than your guitar tone.
The guy doesn't know what 'tone' even means.
XO
"No matter how hard I play, I'm not gonna get a heavy, distorted guitar sound just using my hands."
Proceeds to get heavy, distorted sound, using only hands.
he didn't tho?
He didn't get the heavy sound merely with his hands, and obviously there is a HUGE difference between what sound he ended up getting and what YOU or anyone else can merely do with your hands. Repeat after me, NIVEN42: "These two sounds are NOT THE SAME THING." Got that? Now give yourself a thousand slaps in the head every day for a week, and say "I will not write stupid shit on a public forum ever again."
Duh, Boss Metalzone.
Robert G. String 7 of them together to become unstoppable
All theee gaaaiiin
I strung 7 of them together once, to this day I still have to wear orthopedic shirts.
Robert G. ....that seems to be the Metallica tone pedal.
Boss should just call it that, get every Metallica wannabe out there to buy one and pay me 1% commission so I can afford a Helix, interface, Dell computer with tons of memory and some monitors.
Fast forward to 5 months later, everyone on youtube is using metalzone lmao
I can't stop staring at that spot on the guitar
Chuck Norris could distort it with his hands...
he couldn't distort Bruce Lee though.
De doesn't distort, distort does Chuck Norris
He could distort it unpluged
Without Chuck Norris there would not be a guitar or amp.
chuck schuldiner*
ALL THE GAIN , NO MIDS ,SLAYURRRRR
you won't be haired
80% of your tone is in your amp
10% is your pickups
5% is your FX
5% is everything else
Trolls will argue. To them, I say try getting a brutal tone from a Fender Princeton. It's not happening. Try getting tiptoe through the tulips clean sounds from a Krankenstein on the Dime channel. Again, it's not happening.
Plug a $100 guitar into a $1000 amp. Guaranteed you get a way better sound than you would with a $1000 guitar plugged into a $100 amp. No amount of hands or pedals is going to save that tone.
Facts bro ;) I agree
the final paragraph is the truest thing ive ever heard
Thanks for spending so much time on the Cab section! I've seen so many people just blindly use any cab sims and then split hairs in their amp stage only to end up with half-baked tones.
OMFG Trey. You fooking KILLED my FLUB. Oh thank Bog. I have a Reezafratzitz that I love for high gain into a clean amp (one of the only distortions my 71 Fender Twin will tolerate) and sounds great through my Blackheart Little Giant into a Carvin 412 for bedroom practice. Here's the thing, I just got a Kiesel Vader VM7, and the FLUB got really bad. Now, I have a Voodoo Labs Sparkle Drive, which is a TS9 circuit with an additional clean bypass knob to pass some clean signal through, but I had it set wrong. Had the output low, gain high and tone low. Went low gain, higher on tone, and 75% on the output, rolled off some of the bass on the Reezafratzitz, pushed a little more bass on the amp. whoa! Hyooge. Great thanks. Now I don't want to put down the VM7. This will absolutely do the trick until I scrape the change together for a 6505 MH or Combo.
Amazing video bro! Thank you so much for taking the time to make this for us all! Keep doing what you're doing! :)
Now one thing I noticed once your friend started switching the amps: different mic types were included in the cabinets. Do you think the sound may be affected by you switching the mic type on the cabinet you select?
This is a very informative video! Thanks for putting time into teaching this stuff!
Yes that also affects the tone quite drastically!
Tremendous vid. I have a Helix LT...this is super helpful.
The Mark IV also has the infamous Mesa 5 band eq, Many modelers have a 3 band para-eq. The best way I've found to simulate this are focusing these bands on Mesa's 3 middle sliders: 240, 750, and 2200 Hz. With a GSP1101, I have found that +3, -3 and +3 dB respectively, is the best and most "common" type of setting with this amp model. Something to think about...
I just want to point out on factor u missed out with the helix Cabs, you can change what microphone the cab is using for its sound which drastically changes the cab tone. Go from a condenser mic to a ribbon mic and change the distances from the cab.
“Tone is in the hands, sound is in the rig. There, I said it! Fight me.”
There's nothing to fight. Without any empirical evidence to back up your claim, your comment is essentially useless.
Besides, sound and tone is the exact same thing.
Good day sir.
I dont think so, sound is the general for everything like tone, loudness, frequency etc..... Tone is just a component of sound referred as timbre or quality in physics.... I am sorry for ur illiterate self to find it hard to understand physics... But then not everything is for everyone.... We need some illiterate labour class in the world... U must be one of them who spends life "uselessly"
Anyways, good day "Sir"
sarcasm
/ˈsɑːkaz(ə)m/
noun
the use of irony to mock or convey contempt.
synonyms: derision, mockery, ridicule, satire, irony, scorn, sneering, scoffing, gibing, taunting; trenchancy, mordancy, acerbity; rarecausticity, mordacity
Arya Biswas btw, amazing respect you have for the working classes. I salute your tight bourgeois sphincter.
YOUR SO RIGHT, TONE IS 90% IN I WAY YOU FRET NOTES YOUR PICK ATTACK ECT. SEEMS YOUR TONE IS ALWAYS BETTER ON TUNES YOU KNOW AND EASILY PLAY BECAUSE YOUR PLAYING IS MUCH MORE DELIBERATE, YOU KNOW WHEN TO SOFTEN YOUR TONE WITH GENTLE PICKING OR HAMMER INTO A PINCH HARMONIC FROM HELL BECAUSE YOU KNOW AXACTLY HOW TO MANIPULATE YOUR AXE AND OWN THAT TUNE, SO STOP PLAYING WITH YOUR KNOB SLOB AND SPEND MORE TIME PRACTICING YOUR TECHNIQUE. IDIOTS THINK THEY CAN BUY A $5000 RIG AND THINK WHY DOES MY TONE SUCK, ITS NOT YOUR TONE THAT SUCKS, ANYONE NOTICE REALLY SKILLED PLAYERS ALWAYS SOUND GOOD? SELDOM ARE THEY ON THE KNOBS TRYING TO RUB SOME TONE OUT, ITS THAT DUDE WHOS ALWAYS PLAYING WITH HIS HEAD INSTEAD OF PLAYING WITH HIS AXE. ID RATHER HAVE GREAT SKILLS THAN GREAT EQUIPMENT ANY DAY. IF YOU DONT AGREE THEN GET BACK TO YOUR KNOB SLOB
Dude I was getting so demotivated, I bought this incredible amp and felt like I just could not for the life of me get that crunchy smooth distortion tone and finally this video helped me crack the code thank you so much dude!
Thanks man. This was the best how to get started quick and done video I’ve seen on heavy Helix tones. I often see bashing of the Helix for Metal but I can’t fathom this thing can’t get the tone you’re looking for. It’s all about trying different things. Especially the cabs. I would have liked a cab settings bit though. I don’t mess with mine except the mic type as I have no clue what the others do, much like the power amp settings you mentioned. Thanks again.
The part about "develop a weak picking hand" happened to me with but with weak vibrato laying too much on the tremolo/floyd, recently start playing with a hipshot bridge equip guitar and realize that.
With cabs having a profound influence in tone, would be a good idea to decide on which cabs are best before investing the time in shaping the eq?
I would definitely recommend it. Even the difference between a 2x12 and 4x12 with the same speakers can make the tone feel quite different
DevilMayAsian ..... Thank you....this should be a tutorial on which amp would be best for a good metal sound...start at the most expensive, then work down.
If you can’t set tone, you damn sure can’t pick up on cab differences yet.
Great video!
The only thing I think would've been nice to say was that the Mark amp's tonestack sits in the signal chain before the distortion happens which makes it more of a tweakable clean boost for the second stage where the signal starts to get distorted. On most other amps the tonestack is the last tone shaping element of the preamp. In the Mark amps it's where the 5-band eq sits.
Keep it up, dude! :)
awesome video!! imo one of the most important things in the master section itself is just the mastervolume ... this can totally transform the sound from tight to saggy muddy and compressed ... just like on a real amp ...
I have an actual amp and cab so I can't go back and forth. I guess I'm just stuck with my EVH 5150 iii 50 Watt, EVH 5150 4x12, and Orange 2x12. Hopefully I can find a usable tone somewhere in there. 👍🤘
That's a sick rig, nothing wrong with that!
You probably just need an overdrive, and/or a noise gate that you can work with.
Alex Ramos Dude I'm just screwing around, I love my rig. I use a Horizon Precision Drive and an MXR Smart Gate. Plus an MXR 10 band EQ, MXR Carbon Copy, and Hall of Fame Reverb.👍
Haha
Picked up on the sarcasm immediately.
Could you do a similar video, but how to dial different kinds of amps for metal? Most videos I've seen on how to dial in an amp for metal, they use 5150s or Mesa Boogies. I'd like to see something with Marshalls, Splawns, Friedmans, PRS Archons, etc.
OR a Fender Twin
dude that's (nearly, not close ) mettalica tone, so sick!
My 2 cents. I mix tones like that frequently and they don't sound very good live. And yes, most of them come out of Spyders but occasionally someone will bring in an Axe-FX with some super scooped over saturated tone and it just doesn't work. Maybe its cool in headphones or at home but if you ever want to be heard in a room you need some mids. Some guys come in and their entire sound is this wall of muddy mids and they hit the other extreme. Turn down the gain, balance out the EQ a bit more and try to run through something 'real' - od pedal, analog cab sim, something, especially for live. One of the biggest mistakes I see is way too much low end. You want your sound to be 'crushing' with a full band, not solo, unless you want that just for at home. Getting your 'at home crushing sound' in the context of a live band is the trick.
The issue with these digital units is that they are unbelievably finicky, you really have to labor over your sound to get something good. When the tonal options are opened up to nearly infinite, finding the sweet spots becomes much harder. Some of the best sounds I've heard are from Marshall stacks that are barely on (for room noise purposes). I've heard guys run high gain with pedals on Fender Reverb amps that sound better than Axe-FX units. I find the more digital-esque the rig is the more time I have to spend having the guitarist tweak his sound into something usable. Running it through a solid state preamp and into a real speaker would probably help even. That said, if you know the sound you like and are familiar with it, you can get pretty convincing on the new modelers. I've had a lot of guys ditch their tube combos and just run a Joyo American and get the best tone they've had (blues & clean). Using a cab sim from a well known or popular speaker can also help a lot - so many of these give speakers that will just be a waste of time for most.
All the tone in the hands comments are hilarious. Between identical rigs and different players, yes, better/worse in that context will be down to the player. Between a $6000 rig and some 10 watt solid state amp, there are simply things you won't be able to do. Sometimes you just need to get the gear you are trying to model. Its one of the hardest lessons I learned because pros and players constantly went on about getting the same tones through digital 'cheats'. If you want metal buy a high gain tube Marshall, Mesa Rectifier type, or 5150 type head and run it through any size cab you want to carry using a well documented and 'industry standard' type speaker like a v30, G12H, greenback, etc. Or get a modeler like this and run it through a preamp into a real cab. Then, once you know what 'real' sounds like and you know what you want, then you could get some digital unit and try to match it.
If you want crushing metal tones with real gear to get some ideas check out the cabinet shootout by Spectre Studios here on youtube. Best video I've seen on one of the most overlooked parts of the chain by far.
First, I'll spend a good bit of money getting myself the quintessential Metal amplifier, it's possibly a Peavey 6505 or a Mesa Boogie Dual. I've heard on all the online forums that this is about as Metal as you can get.
Clean channel
Cheap drive pedal
ALL THE GAIN!
ALL THE GAIN!
METAL ZONE!
NO MIDS!
MORE GAIN!
SLAYER!
ALL THE GAIN!!!!!!!!!!
See the problem with that is you won't be haired
Metal zone is good. Check out ola englund's video on it.
Great video! I've been playing for a long time, I have multiple high gain tube heads and a couple of cabinets, plus some digital amp sim stuff. I like to think i'm pretty knowledgeable - I still learned a thing or two here. Thanks!
SG, Marshall style amp, Tube Screamer. Simple and effective. Also, if you're recording music, a great bass tone does WONDERS!! A P Bass, J Bass, Stingray, etc, would do so much in a mix
16:06 Ride The Lightning
4:59 Im currently learning the song Impulsively responsible and I've been searching for the tone and It right there mannnnnn
Rosen Digital impulses are superb for mixing all other Line 6 processors besides the helix with. I got a POD X3 live and for its age its sounds pretty close to Helix and the ElevenRack . And it also has midi so, for the price, you cannot beat it.
The volume level is back up. Sweet!!!
The IR you're using is everything here. Trick is picking one that is present and has enough high end but not fizzy.
I like a little bit of reverb, barely noticeable but it has a nice effect on the whole sound
step 1: Sunn Amps and a Fuzz pedal
Beta super lead and a big muff
C0nnie STONERRRRRR
Thank you.. just in time .. i was looking for a video like this .. suddenly .. gear god upload a new video ... lucky me 🤘🏼🤘🏼
Thanks bud I've been trying to get a crushing tone yet I've been wrestling with clarity
Sounds good. I kinda stumbled upon a lot of these tips from experimenting on my own. Good info here.
tube amp (with proper cab)...crunch channel...Bass 6, Mids 8, Treble 5, dry crunched tone (like Malcom Young) pushed with a Tubescreamer (Level high, Gain low, Tone just above 12 o clock)...everybody should know that by now...
Slears more bass then highs.... breh!! You’re not a bass player
I'm use digitech rp 500 + return fx loop on my amp . Enough for me to achieve various metal sounds. 💪
Great vid. You really explained everything in detail, not just what but why. Awesome. Enough of this will translate to my Line-6 POD xt Live. I'm a big fan of the Greenback 25 cab. You get plenty of that low end wall shaking reverberating sound with muted power chords. For those who don't have equipment, you can pick up a used Line 6 kidney bean for short money. Just make sure you have a humbucker pickup at the bridge for a heavy sound.
You made a good point about not cranking the treble, BUT, the EQ section on a Mark IV is quite different than let's say a Rectifier. Cranking the treble and turning down the bass on a Mark IV actually eliminates your need for an overdrive.
Great video man, what about mic position settings?
That's a great topic, although it's a bit of a can of worms hahahaha. What you're hearing in this one is an IR of an SM57 right on the cone, straight on, smack in the middle of the speaker. Dead simple, hard to fuck up, great for heavy music. There's loads of other good ways to do it, I'll have to start cooking up a video on the topic.
this is easily the best tutorial on this subject i've found on youtube. Thank you! :D
Great information!!! Thank that give me more clarity about tone, I have a EVH 100w with a G system and I found that if I use a G system parametric EQ in the loop I can get pretty good tone, but some times I lose mid so I add more in the amp itself. Thanks again.
Need to set high cut at least on the cab block. It's a must!
Great ideas.... thanks
Cool video, but i find it weird to refine your tone for 13 minutes and THEN ONLY check out impulse responses, which affect the tone A LOT.
I would start with a decent base tone (in like 2 minutes : EQ at noon, right gain amount, tube screamer or not), and then check out impulse responses, and then only tweak the tone further when the right IR is found.
Great point about mids in a live setting. I saw suffocation a while back and it was just bass and drums lol
Thanks for your incredible lesson man.
Awesome thanks Gear God’s
The best video of all times dude!!!! Great great one 💪😉
Thank you very much for making this video man seriously. I've been playing for 20 years and I'm still open for educating myself anything to improve technique, tone, style, etc. I am currently running a Ibanez 100w tone blaster amp head through a 1960A Marshall cab with a digitech jam man, and rp300A. I cant really find a tone that I like, but this will help with the options that I have currently. Good content! Thank you!
Good video, sometimes though this all comes down to ear of the beholder. It also depends on what kind of sound you are trying to get. Are you just experimenting with the settings? Or is there a certain sound you hear in your head that you are trying to bring to life? I personally use a processor, and I usually tweak all the way through all the settings for as many times as it takes to get it right for me. Also, sometimes you really don't know for sure how your guitar really sounds until it's in a mix with other instruments.
Aside from your hands, it is also the pick you're using, the strings and gear you're using. Have to tweak those sounds around to achieve your sound.
good little points I did not know....
Super helpful... thanks dooder
ditch the mids and clutch the gain
Watching with my homemade franken jazz strat and a smol lany amp
Really helpful
I have a distortion pedal that has a “Bloodbath” mode. Nothing can touch it. It has a “”Tighten” knob and a “Tone Shaper” knob as well as a “Mids Kill” switch. Built in 12 band EQ and built in dual core noise gate that is adjustable. Metal AF 🤘🏻
Wtf pedal is that, sounds fucking awesome
Really cool video, 100% agreed. I have 2 amps and a torpedo live and with different IRs I can make 100s of very different sounds!
Ok, everyone, stfu!
Gear and settings will help you get the tone you're look for, not your hands.
The major factors in getting over saturated metal tones like the one in this video are: the right pickups, eq and gain settings, amp head & cab at the very least. An overdrive or an extra EQ can help you shape the tone if the before mentioned gear can't get you close to what your looking for.
Major factor for clean tones are the right tone wood, pickups and amp. Use a little delay and some modulation, like a chorus to keep the signal from being too dry.
You can only make the gear sound bad ass if you have good technique, that is where your hands come into the equation. Trey touched on this at the beginning of video, 0:46 .
Amazing tutorial. Love that you used a base effects processor which most would have
What a lot of people tend to forget, or not understand when searching for the all mighty guitar tone to stomp all other guitar tones is, you also will want to have an awesome bass guitar tone!!!! In both live settings, and in a studio setting ( but in a studio setting you can "tone stack"... meaning have multiple guitar and bass tracks to thicken up your sound tone)
So kiddos, don't forget about the bass guitar tone!!! They are actually way more important than what you might think!!!
Sadly my gear is so minimal that I can't get a bass toneee...
The better and tighter you are as a guitar player, the less distortion you rely on.
Facts
Great advice, trey! Thanks!
Dude do you work for line 6?
Great explanation. Thanks!
Just subscribed after watching this it was very helpful I have Line 6 Spider V, I know I’m probably gonna get laughed at for it, but I’ve been using the app for the amp and this has helped me a bunch thanks trey. Cheers from New Mexico.
JJ Fafrak You can get good tones from a Line 6 amp. Dont sweat the trollers.
Great video
5:58 favorite riff! 🤘🔥
Hey look, it’s the same modeler I use! Trey, if you can, you gotta update the Helix firmware, cause the latest amp they put on is the Friedman BE-100 and it just kills every other metal amp in the box!
Orange 0r 15, Wampler Ratsbane and a tumnus gives me a crushing tone.
I like you! You are clever and real teachers material. Thanks for a great vid!
BATTERY
I tried a boost pedal on my Peavey 6505 but decided the dry amp with no effects and high gain channel works better.
i have the combo, i boost with a ts9 how tight can you get it without effects and what are ur settings
Tone is the ha.... oh wait you already covered that.
But for real, I wish a video like this existed when I was trying to figure how to improve my tone when I was younger and had crappier gear. It's funny though, because the tone you came up with here is not far at all from my rig now, with a TS mini into a Mesa Mark V 35 at it's core.
That's a good rig! I want a Mark V 25 real bad, even though I don't have a particular use for it hahaha
c'mon now, it's not like we only buy gear because we always have a particular use for it ;)
I've owned the helix since its birth & I gotta say this video has explained amp settings better than any other I've seen (& I've seen afew 🤣)
Good job 🤘
Tha toanz in your hands. Nah but in all seriousness, I put a boss metal zone in front of my line 6 spider IV and it blows all metal tones I see on TH-cam out of the water.
Dexter trying to get the ear head underwater line 6 spider 4 at the end of a 300 yard tunnel swollen butthole tone?
Meshuggah Fan8675 haha
Some Line 6 settings are very useable and it takes some time (a fairly ridiculous amount of time), but a good metal tone can be had from the Metal Zone.
Probably one of the distortion pedals that I despise most, but it CAN be done. I used it throughout my entire days in a metal band and it did the job. Gave me the sound I needed through about 16 or so shows played, with compliments to my sound.
Its passable if dialed in.
A “useable” tone can be achieved with a decent amount of tweaking. But it isn’t blowing any tones, out of any waters!
How would you recommend shaping your tone in a live situation with a band?
Actually, the best tutorial out there
I use IR's with real 1x12 Blackstar cab. U can call me sick, BUT! For home practice it makes ALL the difference comparing to the monitors (i have Yamaha HS7). Yes, monitors sound good, until you swap them for real cab (if you haven't 4x12) + some Mesa Trad or Marshall 1960 4x12 IR. I was happy as a child when i first used it. Sometimes you just need to boost 1-2k on th EQ and it sounds badass.
Can you do a tutorial on a lead tone?
Good vid on EQ'ing a bit to get more of what you want, but of course, if you have a cab, you will ultimately be limited in what you can get. The Helix, load boxes, IR's and such have all come into their own for one reason. Noise. I'm old school, still take days to mic cabs, A/B heads, pedals, etc....to record. But most people dont have that option, AND CANT even if they have the stuff. Noise. You can dial in a decent tone, and cab, with your headphones on. Cant do that with a vintage amp and cabs. They need to push to get to that sweet spot. That means freakin loud. ( Ever heard a Hiwatt through a Marshall 4 x 12 cab??? It'll make you dizzy, deaf, and your neighbors will hate you..) Take into account as well, noisy room, noise from mics and cables and power supplies, all taken out by the use of software. Its not a bad thing, just different. With the stuff available these days, it can be done through headphones. Makes it more accessible to many, ( if you can justify over a $1000 minimum for a good processor like the Helix, $1500'ish, Black Widow, $2000, Axe Effects III, $3500, The OX loadbox, $1300...etc ) and makes it quicker by far for many. There are cheaper ways, Bias Amp, Bias Amp FX, software like that. But you need the pro versions to use IR's.
The eq on the Mark series work before the gain stages, so you're affecting the tone of your pickups (screamer 808 here) before they're distorted and not the tone of the amp. Go to page 3 of the model and you should have the controls for the graphic eq Mark amps have and adjust the amp's tone there. Great informations nevertheless!
Thank you for the informative video! Any chance for a video on how to make a smooth/violin-like lead tone?
Acer Pseudoplantatus The EBow, maybe...?
Damn man.. that’s how it’s done!