I know I'm a Rose fan but...his Bankai, Kinshara Butōdan, is pretty badass. How strong do you think his Bankai really is? How many characters could he defeat...if he didn't tell them the secret to overcoming it? Let me know your thoughts!
Rose is cool in my book. I can understand why a lot of folks dunked on him for monologuing too much on what his Bankai could do to his opponents. It’s not entirely Rose’s fault it’s the writers behind it. Hopefully the next time he goes face to face with an opponent, he learns his lesson to not say anything to his opponent on what his Bankai could do. And to answer the question how strong his Bankai really is. On a scale to 1 to 10, I’m going to go with 8. And how many characters could Rose defeat? I’ll go with 4.
I think it is as strong as the one of our beloved one-eyed headcaptain. Thats for several reasons. I acctually dont think you have to believe that its real because Rose told his enemie it wasnt real. That might have been a dumb move but he is not as stupid as to make his Bankai useless. The ilusion is not broken by believe but by blocking sound completly. The writing here is sadly bad. Besides Rose every, really EVERY single character told their respective power but it never hits them back. Also James shouldnt be able to heal Mask as the healing is also sound based with cheers. Kubo could have given Rose weakening James so much, that Mask had to give up his healing powers to survive. This wold have been much better than letting Mask kill James himself by being dumb himself and getting owned by one vize-captain (captain level) Renji while two captains lost. If he was weakend, it would have been nice team victory. As Roses Bankai is an illusion, it cant be hurt physically, which should make it nearly impossible to escape by fighting against the dancers. You cant win a sword fight against something that isnt there.
From a realistic pov, Rose's Bankai is definitely an op one. If I were to rank him among the other captains, I think he only loses to Yama, Adult Hitsugaya, Kenpachi, Unohana, Shunsui and Byakuya. Shinji is debatable.
I love Roses secretly sadistic nature. It's a shame he wasn't more central to the plot in any way. I would've loved to see this side of him more. Also, it'd be neat if the type of music he decides to play affects the abilities his bankai uses.
FACTS when it shows Rose saying “Nice” with that sadistic smile as Sea Drift is crushing him and his excited expression when yelling the third and final act Ein Helden-Leben I was like damn he’s a sadistic mad man I love it
It's plenty strong, problem is Kubo loves matching up people against the one guy or girl who can perfectly counter their power. In this case Rose was matched against a guy not only insane enough to deafen himself immediately but who could both pummel Rose immediately after and also could heal himself instantly.
Yeah, it's all started back in SS arc when Tousen fought the only shinigami who could counter his bankai (Zaraki) but it got progressively worse in future arcs (to the point where half of TYBW fights were basically about favourable/unfavorable matchups)
@@сахасахович-п2и And in the handful of situations they weren't Kubo introduces a completely new power that completely flips the script. I'm looking at Komamura conveniently having the ability to basically become immortal just so he can beat Bambietta who otherwise would've thrashed him. One thing I prefer in series is when the characters get clever when it comes to winning against stronger opponents.
@@thefanwithoutaface8105While I half agree, I think reducing Komamura's humanization technique as just an ass pull to beat Bambietta is head empty, especially since Komamura himself didn't even intend to really fight her again.
Yep. He literally went against a fake enemy construct that can afford to do something insane like bursting your own eardrums. Generally, Quincy can’t even heal themselves like Arrancar with Resurreccion because they’re human. What Rose did really wasn’t as incompetent as people say.
I had no problem with the Bankai, only with the writing. Kubo used both Kensei and Rose as fodder to hype-up Mask de Masculine, just so could then use Mask to hype-up Renji... Renji, who doesn't do anything for the remainder of the arc EDIT: Sorry, afterwards Renji did have the huge accomplishment of calling Bazz-B "Chicken-Hair" or something
the thing is, alot of people thought that the Sternritters were weaker than the Soul Reapers & HAD to steal their Bankai's just to compete (even though that wasn't the point of why they did that in the first place) either way Mask proved that they didn't need to steal Bankai to compete..
@@JxFTWplus sternritters took too many L's in second invasion so it was nice to see that it wasn't completely one-sided war (even if only vizards lost their fights)
@@JxFTW that is definitely not the main reason for why kubo did that cuz there wasn't any realistic way mask was gonna win against 2 100+ experienced captains with hollow masks that are poison to quincy and were forced to explain their powers due to plot.
Something a lot of people don’t seem to understand about this fight is that destroying your eardrums is something that would ordinarily leave a person immobilized and not even able to stand. Whether he knew he could heal or not, the pain accompanying that and what should have followed could have crippled him and left him susceptible to a lethal attack. Being able to withstand that says more about Mask than Rose. Also, another thing I wanna bring up. About zanpakutos, it should be noted that all Zanpakuto have a Bankai that correlate to their Shikai. However, it’s less about their element and more about their concept. The main ones that can be given as an example are Soifon’s, whose Zanpakuto focuses on trying to kill the enemy as fast as possible, going from 2 strikes one kill to one strike one kill, and Senjumaru, who can disguise and hide reality with her threads, not mention completely resew the target in the way she wants, to creating tanmonos that have their own realities that are based upon their patterns. Even Kisuke’s. His Benihime is the epitome of adaptability to any situation, and his Bankai further exemplifies that. It’s something that people fail to notice, but Zanpakuto are conceptual beings
This is my head canon for this bankais potential evolution/nature. Since its ability revolves around using sound waves, your body and other objects should still be able to ‘hear’ (feel the waves, e.g. explosion sound wave). Therefore, you would still be affected by the bankai even when deaf, but maybe to much smaller degree.
yh if rose trained to up the potency of the music then opponents would be able to feel the music through the vibrations and effective remove the weakness of the bankai but unless youre renji or rukia or you have a whole novel like shuhei, you wont be getting any character development anytime soon.
Wonder if you can counter the music by singing louder and out of tune. Would be a funny counter and seeing rose annoyed at what horrible music he is hearing.
Mask wasn't the real problem, it was James. He was a subconscious imaginary hero. So unless James is eliminated, he'll just keep rejuvenating, fighting, and overcome his opponent.
You know what's funny about that, the fact that we're getting a mute soul reaper in the hell arc, so unless his enemies know sign language and he decides to f****** start breaking out the Naruto hand signs, he won't be giving up the bank
Now I'm wondering if being mute makes one automatically lose Kyoraku's color game. Is it like with Kinkaku and Ginkaku in Naruto, where if you are silent for too long you are forced to lose?
headcannon synopsis 🤓: the nature of roses bankai is too create any “program” so long as you believe it to be true. He uses sea drift and Prometheus to trap you into believing his deceptive songs, and once captivated or “in a state of believing” rose is able too createee a specific program to defeat his opponent (with a befiting title.). similarities: gremmy’s the visionary. + Shunui’s bankai.
@@olo703 mayuri was able to resurrect a bunch of dead captains, and hiyori was able to somehow completely heal from getting cut in half by Gin. Byakuya would definitely be able to heal his eardrums.
Can you really blame Rose? If anyone is to blame is Renji for taking too much L’s in the previous arcs. Nerfed a completely OP Bankai to make up for past Renji downfalls 😂
Thats how i felt! Rose had to lose so that renji could come and save the day. Good for renji but why did it have to come at a cost for rose 😭 Renji rukia and chad should have had a victory against Yami working together instead of squad 11 and 6 captains coming to save the day
Now that I think about it his bankai might have actually been really strong against Lil and his intangibility. Because of how his bankai works, he doesn't need to touch him directly to damage him. As long as he could hear the melody his brain would think his body is being damaged by its effects
I'm pretty sure that its an established rule that Zanpakuto can only have one element, although it might be possible to fake it. For example, a Zanpakuto might have teh ability to manipulate heat, which would let it create fire and ice, but they all only have one power. Even if we consider Rose being stupid enough to tell his opponent that his power works through sound, how many people would willingly deafen themselves just to counter him? Damaging your inner ear isnt exactly a good thing, it would have a good chance of destroying your balance to start with and most people cant regenerate their eardrums. Technically speaking, you could counter Aizen by blinding yourself, but most people arent going to do that. Thats why Rose was so taken aback when he realized that Mask had destroyed his own eardrums, its an absolutely insane thing to do that most people simply wouldnt.
Not to mention, Mask has no weapons. It is psychologically impossible to mutilate yourself with your bare hands. Of course, Mask isn't an actual person, so he wouldn't be limited by such things. I like to think that is at least partially why Rose was so shocked to see him use his fingers to rupture his eardrums.
It's also important to remember that Orihime is the only character in the whole series able to heal other people's major injuries to that degree. There are exceptions (hollows/arrancar with regeneration, Yhwach's Almighty, and of course James/Mask), but it's really not a common thing, the story just keeps her & her powers central. Rose has probably never fought someone with 1. the ability to recover from destroying their eardrums, 2. the wherewithal to know that'd work, and 3. the power to take him down immediately after neutralizing his Bankai
yall better come up w better excuse to justify kubos writing. Telling opponents the users abilities is one of bleach's cringiest aspects. Id rather have a narrator w lengthy expositions like jjk than this, who undermines people's IQ especially captains over 300+ years, just because.... 😂
@22:06 I recall Byakuya slicing his tedons VS Zommari. (Not hesitation) Zaraki tearing his "compulsoried" arm off VS Pernida. These characters exist. Just few and far between.
Part of me really wishes that Mask deafening himself would have prevented James from healing him. It would have made Rose and to a lesser extent Kensei feel like they contributed to Renji’s win, and messed with power scaling less. As is, it made such a cool bankai feel like fodder, and it isn’t like James did much more to contribute after this point anyways.
Imagine being a battle-hardened captain who’s trained for centuries, only to be fodder to hype up a several-chapter villain that gets wrecked easily by somebody else who has way less experience than you. But that’s not all! Then you become a zombie slave for some psychotic creep.
That's what pisses me off. These boring and unlikable characters given opportunity to completely stomp already liked characters that have been built up with no punchline.
One of the big things you wouldn't immediately think about with a character punching a hole in their eardrums is it would irrevocably ruin their sense of balance, they would barely be able to walk in a straight line ever again let alone swing a weapon with any proficiency, mask being able to heal himself really eas an ace that rose could never have accounted for
while a lot has been said about Rose's defeat for good reason it does seem like Rose can probably bust out a few more Symphonies for different effects and we haven't seen the full capabilities of this Bankai yet, which is exciting if the series continues
Before he unleashed his bankai rose always seemed like a kurama(yuyu hakusho) knockoff with his rose whip but the bankai really gave him an identity to me.
I definitely agree that Rose's bankai is incredibly powerful. Especially if it's true that you can't cover your ears to ignore it. The lengths one would need to go to just to have it not effect them are drastic and debilitating in any type of fight. So you either die to the illusion or you weaken yourself so much the shikai, his kidō (confirmed second best kidō user of the vizard), or later on hollowed Rose, can take you out.
I remember hearing the theory that the Vizard Captain’s Zanpakuto reference the Five Senses. Shinji’s Sakanade uses Smell to reverse his opponent’s senses. Kensei’s Tachikaze will endlessly attack his opponent as long as he Touches them. Rose’s Kinshara uses music and Hearing. That leaves Love and Lisa with Taste and Sight.
I think for the water part of his technique he uses the metal whip in all directions mimicking water and for the fire section I think he lets the different sections of the whip touch and the friction from the "waves" rubbing against each other burns whatever is caught up in the coils continuously.
This was always an interesting piece of worldbuilding for me,because I don't think it's a coincidence that Aizen, Shinji and Rose had power that all tamper with the senses but all come from a different reference point, Sight Smell and Sound respectively . I always speculated that Kubo had that as a possible narrative thread at some point.
I think it doesn't matter if you know it's an illusion or not. Because the BAN-KAI controls music and sound and not though. The only moment mask escapes the Illinois is when he can't hear anything so as long as the "melody is echoing thru your heart" you will be under the influence of his BANKAI. And I think that's really cool, makes it really powerful.
I imagine Rose's bankai is one of the most versatile, as his creativity and artistic ability are at the heart of his strength. Zanjutsu for him would be like composition sessions, rehearsals, and improvisational "jam sessions" which would build up his arsenal of illusions and strengthen his ability to compose new illusion/performances as the need arises. The relative strength of the compositions would be dependent on the amount of practice he's had with it, while the strength of his improvisational illusions would be based purely (and subjectively) on how moving they are to his "audience."
Kenpachi Zaraki might be the only other character who wouldn’t hesitate to crush his own eardrums. That said, I think Mayuri would do something similar, although in his case, he could always reconstruct them in some way. Kenpachi would do it, even knowing it would mean permanent hearing loss for him.
Tbh i always thought that people were too harsh to Rose. Like sure, it was dumb for him to reveal his ability but is it really that different from all other instances in Bleach when characters explained abilities to their enemies? (Zommari explaining how his Amor works instead of silently taking Byakuya body by aiming to his head, Ulquiorra explaining how his regeneration works even if it was completely unnecessary, Byakuya telling Ichigo that Senkei blades won't attack him all at once and so on). The only difference is that Rose almost immediately paid the price for his big mouth.
when you brought up BBS I was quickly able to imagine an attack kit for him lol... his first strong attack can be a 3k beam that has his dancers throwing flames across from each other, his second strong attack can be a homing vortex of his dancers performing sea drift & his 3rd can be a full screen mix of both or another element.. then his special can be Einheldenleben & we're basically in the enemy's POV & we see a golden glow that evaporates us, while the curtains draw over us as we die lol.. idk what Einheldenleben actually does but I'm giving it so much credit if it actually does guarantee a kill lol
Oh man I love your videos so much! Bleach has ended so long ago and as I and my friend still discuss and argue and "fix" Naruto, you still make videos on Bleach 🎉 Great video!
I always thought that if that fight had not been rigged for Renji to shine, the dance troupe could be more of an element of the power. If the target was not enthralled by the music (or pierced their eardrums, as one does), the dancing could capture their hearts. Rose could even laugh it off and say something like "did you think I was playing this song for you?" as he controlled the dancers into the next attack. If the enemy pierced their eyes too, well, then they would be in a terrible disadvantage. And if they still won, then they deserved it. But alas...
1. I'm pretty sure it could craft any illusion he desires & the names are created after the fact. 2. Given the technique means Hero's life, it would likely be a tragedy on how much Ichigo, or someone else close to Rose, suffered throughout their life. Ex. Forcing Mask to be mutilate by the enemies that Rose knew Ichigo fought, or subject Mask to the emotional despair Rose thinks Ichigo suffered without his powers. 3. He probably has productions based on tornados (debris based blunt force), rockslide (being buried alive), Thunderstorm (struck by lightning), Blizzard (Freezing) & non-weather phenomenon.
Theory: Rose's bankai uses sound. That sound resonates with your spiritual pressure thus creating the final "crescendo" to end a fight. Maybe. And I think Rose is mid tier captain. I'd rank him 8th overall at end of series.
I am glad Rose is getting his flowers. Kinshara Butodan is an deadly Bankai and is seriously underrated. I'd love to see his last act in the future, I'll let Kubo cook!
I think a way to figure out the power isn't real is if you notice that nothing else around you is affected. Like if the ground doesn't get wet or nothing else is burning but yourself. If Maske starts burning then looks at Kensei and sees he's perfectly fine then he would probably figure it out.
Honestly, I’ve always thought that Rose NEEDS to elaborate on exactly what he is doing for his abilities to work properly. Kinda like how Ichigo’s Getsuga Tensho is stronger when he “chants” it or how Kido works. He’s the opposite of Shunsui almost, one is a gamer trying to outplay his opponent whereas the other is an artist detailing his art to his opponent. I think Shutara also has a similar condition, where she explains what is going on inside each cloth. So while you could say that “he talks too much”, that IS the point of his Bankai. It’s just that his opponent was crazy enough to go deaf just to win similar to how Kenpachi rips Berenice’s throat out before he could finish his Question. Edit: for such an overpowered ability, it makes sense that there would be a drawback, otherwise Rose would be unbeatable. You find the same trend with Gremmy as well, he’s also his own enemy. The same thing happens with Rukia as well, her own Bankai could kill her. Kenpachi as well, and even Shinji. People just took the meme too far and it became “the truth” when in reality, Rose isn’t stupid, he never explains his Shikai or hollowfication or even kido, it is clearly a condition of his Bankai to explain how it works.
Not believing something is not always a conscious choice because there is always doubt. You may think you're sure you don't believe you're on fire, but if all your senses tell you that you are, then it would be really hard to override your own nervous system. Doing the ear thing was really the only defense, unless you possess the unlikely absolute control of your senses required. The only other perfect enemy for Rose would be a mindreader.
Superstar is an oaf so he needed to be told the power of that zanpaktou...but anyone with some level of intellect would figure out that the music is probably the key because his bankai just manifest a sound from nowhere...that should raise a flag in any discerning mind. Knowing is only half of it, for sure not many would be willing to puncture their eardrums which wouldn't only deafen you but also affect balance as your ears play a role there. Byakuya and Mayuri are the 2 captains that without hesitation would deafen themselves to counter it. We saw Byakuya injure himself on an extreme level before, and Mayuri basically is a sadist that can regenerate at the end of the day. One has to wonder though what if you create powerful sounds of your on to disrupt his music, if that would weaken the bankai? Like Giselle using tons of explosions to negate the sound that is playing.
In terms of opera a hero's life is a totally fitting name and theme for an opera so it's not unlikely that he has a preset list of programs he can use and ein heldenleben is one of them. Honestly sea drift is a more out of place one. So who's to say for sure maybe he can basically do anything he wants and create new programs on the fly. But Rose's bankai is special and cool for one reason. The damage it does is not an illusion. Other illusion type zanpakuto like kyokasuigetsu and sakanade don't have any physical effects on their own. When rose uses prometheus mask's arm gets burnt and the material of his outfit on that part is destroyed. Even after the bankai is over that damage remains his arm is still burnt and his sleeve is destroyed. Not to mention if the last technique truly was going to just kill mask then thats clearly a real effect and not just an illusion. Which is awesome. Cause one of the things i dislike about sakanade is that its essentially just a worse version of kyokasuigetsu. It only affects sight and is very limited in comparison. But thats just his shikai. If a captain's bankai was just a worse version of kyokasuigetsu that would be insulting. So its good that it can do things aizen's shikai cannot. So it does use sound and has no effect if the target can't hear but it does real damage its not illusions. Also for sakanade not being able to smell would do nothing its a gas that's inhaled. The way to prevent it would be to cover all your orifices so you don't inhale or intake the gas.
With the theme being music, the final act of Rose’s bankai probably represents musical improvisation, giving him ability to create a bespoke attack for any opponent.
It reminds me of how the battle between zaraki and sternritter Q went and from what we now know he could have actually won against zaraki if it wasn't for the plot , so both sides had the same problem so it's fair .
Wait what? Sternritter Q didn't die because of a plot bro. Why would he have won against ZARAKI and how is it a plot? She got two seconds of screen time before her throat was torn open. You sure bro? Yo so I did some research. Sternritter Q is not a guy, that's a girl, the more you know. She is Sternritter "Q", meaning she can ask a question, and if her opponent answers, they start suffering self-doubt. SO BASICALLY. Her powers are only useful if Zaraki actually startled chatting with her but Zaraki pierced her throat to silence her, and this rendered her totally powerless. Where did you get the Information of it being plot armor? Because you said "From what we know" That's so confusing. Let's say ZARAKI answered her questions and her powers started manifesting.. ZARAKI could just release some spiritual pressure to nullify her effects, just like Aizen did with Soi Fon's SHIKAI. I hope you answer me because I'm fuckin curious where tf you got that information from😁
@@BladeZlayer with all my respect my bro looks like your has some flaws in it . First it literally says that Berenice is a "he" in the official website for anime and look it up yourself. Secondly that's not how this power works , when someone question you about your loyalty to someone you " yeah I loyal to them , what the hell are you saying" and this is when the shrift ability kicks in ; it makes you question your loyalty and in the end you lose it ,you don't need to actually answer the question itself with your lips, and the blu ray bonus for cour one Berenice was talking about how zaraki is a savage animal that all what he thinks about is killing , so he said he's gonna take away his intent to kill from him . So theoretically Berenice can defeat any one with three questions: First " do you have the intent to kill me?" Takes away the killing intention. Second " are you loyal to your side?" Takes away your loyalty Third " weren't you always loyal to Quincy side ? " and with that you are now service under Yhwach . You would think that's too op , it's impossible for a fodder like him to have power like this. Funny enough Berenice was never stated to be a fodder , but the fandom made him look like this cause he didn't get a proper showcase for his abilities like many other sternritters that people call them fodders . He is ability is too broken that Kubo made sure that Zaraki was deaf so don't get affected by it. And as for the reiatsu negation in case you didn't notice yet it doesn't work with the Quincy shirfts ; we saw weakened Nanana that lost his holy form and his actual shirft got weaker than before able affect Aizen himself with no problem at all or when base Askin was able to affect Ichigo with his shrift and Ichigo couldn't do anything. That is the answer to your questions my friend. From Sternritter (Q) the question Berenice Gabrielle .
Something to note is that Kubo only has the characters explain their powers if it is within their character to do so in that scenario, and how they do so, if they do, is also determined by the character in that scenario. In this case, Rose is dramatic and fully confident. Even if Mask covered his ears, nothing would happen. He just never expected Mask to be capable of rupturing his own eardrums You keep blaming Kubo and the narrative, but honestly, I can't think of a single reason why Rose WOULDN'T talk about it.
I will forever stand by Rose! A cool character with some really cool abilities (his Bankai is awesome), he was just unfortunately a victim of circumstance, so Kubo could give Renji a badass moment to show off his new powers. From just some quick and dirty research, "Ein Heldenleben" is an actual music piece from a German composer, and it is made up of six different "movements," each movement being part of a hero's life, so may Ein Heldenleben could be composed of six different attacks? Haven't fully thought it through yet.
If Rose were to refine his Bankai for future battles, I think it would make sense for him to find a way for his music to penetrate the SOUL ITSELF, rather than to just emit physical sound waves to be heard by the physical eardrums. In this way, his music itself would become an illusion, and his Bankai, an inescapable masterpiece.
Rose’s bankai falls into the same pothole as Tosen’s: actually super powerful and reasonably could be used to beat many other characters, but whose only showing is against the one opponent that it’s useless against, to then never be used again.
It's really a shame that we don't see the Bankai do anything else other than injure. Having music increase the speed of other friendly fighters or help them get back up when they normally wouldn’t could make it a versatile Bankai that doesn't need to be individually strong as the 'Orchestra' and 'Conductor' work as one many times.
potential-wise, (excluding Ichigo who is an abomination) VIZARD should be stronger than Shinigami, right? Like a Vizard Byakuya wil be stronger than Shinigami Byakuya?
Given the conception of music having different melodies and each person having different tastes, it would make sense he can tailor his bankai to make unique songs to ensnare his opponents. I doubt he has a preset 3 song playlist and is more able than at first thought
Rose is dope man. I always love the whip style attackers somethin about em is just cool. Maybe im a masochist or somethin idk. But yeah rose bankai definitely is powerful. And speaking on kisuke bankai REALLY hope the anime drags its out a bit. Please give us more time with kisuke an his creepy beautiful bankai!
Rose a nice character, of the captains Ukitake is my favorite but I like the Rose, his bankai should be like the melody of the flute of Sorento, where it attacks directly the mind of the opponent, not being possible to be canceled if he does not prevent him from performing the melody.
If Rose were to ever train his Bankai further (dunno if it’s possible), a useful extension of his ability would be using sound vibrations themselves to trick the enemy. Extending the trickery to be activated by feeling certain rhythms of vibrations would make it so the opponent has to be DEAF and not able to FEEL to completely nullify the illusions.
Haven’t seen bleach in nearly ten years but rose and shinji have always been my favorite vizards. The fact that they both have illusionary based powers make them all the more interesting to me. I adore roses bankai. Just watched TYBW and sadly it seemed to me that roses bankai came and went w out much fanfare or effect on the enemy. I would have loved to see rose save the day on that fight. I wanted roses bankai to have been lavished on like byakuya’s was in the soul society arc. For rose to get get one shotted in half an episode was so sad for me
It truly sucks how horrible Kubos writing of Rose was he didn’t deserve to be shit on like he was I love Kinshara Butōdan it’s my 2nd favorite Bankai in the Bleach series and Rose is my 3rd favorite captain in the Gotei 13 I really hope Kubo redeems him and in the Hell Arc he gets more love and uses his Bankai again but this time getting the killing blow on his enemies maybe Rose, Kensei, Shinji, and Lisa went to the Royal Palace during the 10 year time skip and trained like Rukia, Renji, Byakuya, and Ichigo to get stronger that would be really nice and please Kubo let them all use their damn hollow masks as Captains
I feel like a way they could have justified Rose revealing how his Bankai works is by having him use it to make the target realize they are in danger. Think about: if someone tells you "everything you hear will become real and hurt you". That instills a deep fear that you are affected by it, making it even more potent. Against people who cant heal or recover like Mask can, that would make it easier to understand why he would do so.
Definitely something I thought after I learned about Rose's Bankai, who in their right mind would just stab your own ears just like that. This was one of the scenes that really shows the arc's goriness, and pre anime I was thinking of how gross they could make it like having a bloody popping sound for when Mask did it, but it wasn't that bad in the anime. But anyway, unless you really confident in your own or someone else's healing prowess, you'd have to be crazy desperate to mess up your ears that way in order to get the win.
Rose is one of those characters where, had he been introduced earlier in the series, he could've been a major recurring character. His shikai and bankai are creative and have enough potential and variance to evolve over time. The same way that Ichigo, Ishida, and to a lesser extent Renji's abilities kept evolving over time. But he was introduced too late, and as a minor character. Which is a shame, because I would've loved to have seen more of his ability. A training arc where he's just writing songs for his dancers would've been cool. But alas, he was introduced too late and as a minor character. I am glad we got to see it though. Because for what it is, it's super cool. Maybe some of the more in tune characters like Byakuya or Ishida could figure him out. But more headstrong characters like Ikkaku, Grimmjow, or Yami would've struggled with it.
I always thought it was kinda dumb that Masculine was able to throw off his Bamkai by rupturing his ear drums. Feels like Kubo forgot that sound waves can resonate in the water of your body.
Just a hint: when pronouncing "ein Heldenleben", the emphasis is on the "Held" (hero) part. Apart from that: I appreciate the effort you put into pronouncing all those german words and phrases. I know it's not the easiest language to learn for a native english speaker, but you pretty much nail it most of the time :)
I'm a big Rose fan. I was very sad how he Kubo handled him, and never understood why Rose bankai can't work when the enemy can't hear. Human body is basiclly one big ear.
This Bankai is absolutely loaded with unseen potential if we assume Rose has a plethora of scores to play with varying effects and degrees of potency. In retrospect it seems like it foreshadows Senjumaru’s Bankai and her seemingly being shot down by Lille. Another commenter (@CaptainKotetsu) mentioned Rose’s resurrection as him also being enslaved by a “psychotic creep” which could also describe the allegedly wise Ichibei and his relationship with the Zero Division. Aside from their deaths and states of servitude, Rose and Senjumaru are also loosely paralleled with their respective weaponization of “cords.” Speaking of, I’m upset to just be realizing that Kinshara resembles piano wire, or that of other instruments. Too on the nose for me to even see.
I personally think “Ein Helden-Leben” deprives the enemy of the ability to breathe, thus, making them suffocate to death. It’s quite a scary concept, because such death is both theatrical and violent. It’s exactly what Rose would do.
If this has indeed a instant-kill move, it suffers the same issues as Soifons Shikai: It just does not make a good story. Either the enemy dies or the power is defeated entirely. There is no middle ground. No struggle in combat to maybe overcome it. As for how captains would fare: It is worth noting Rose only has a conductors staff. He has no weapon anymore while in bankai. If you can push through the illusions, you can probably defeat him in one swing. - Shunsui probably would understand the mechanic/notice the melodi quickly. Not sure he is quick with self injury. He would likely rush him. - Soifon - rush him. Assuming she didn't start teh combat with shikai from surprise. - Unohana. Probably encountered sound based attacks befere and can heal her eardrums. Alternarively, rush him. - Shinji's Sakanade is odd. Either it is completely negated (as no aiming is required) or it scrambles the music. At least I think it affects the wielder too, Shinji is just trained to fight with it - Byakuya is the most likely to cut his own ear drums, healing option or not. See his Zomari fight. But he also has considerable reach and a attack that pierces his petals will tip him off that it is a illusion - Sajin is odd. His Bankais reach might keep him out of range. Containing his main body in illusory water is not going to top the Bankai. And he is prone to go Bankai on the drop of a dime. - Kensei only move is rushing. However, I am not sure his damage is as high as one would think. Either Kensei is utterly disrupted, or this becomes a battle of attrition vs instant kill. Maybe he can drown/disrupt the music with explosions? - Toshiro. Another Bankai fanatic. He can kill Rose on range, even while in the illusion. - Kenpachi cut the vacuum of space, but won't be able to cut illusions. So that will tip him off this is not real. And his instinct is to rush the enemy - so if the illusions don't stop him, he is on you in seconds - Mayuri would likely notice the melody instantly. And he either has a off-switch for his hearing, or can just regenerate his eardrums. Assuming he isn't the second one to combat anyway - the guy likes his prep-time! - Ukitake is the "smartest captain" and when he can't redirect any of the elements, he knows it is a illusion. So, rush him. - Rukia. She can range attack. And her Bankai seems omni-directional/wide angle.
I think Rose's Bankai abilities seem limitless, as the known attacks are all musical orchestral pieces from famous composers. For example, he could possibly exploit "The Four Seasons - Winter" by Vivaldi and conjure up an intense blizzard on an opponent. As long as the title and theme of those orchestral symphonies can fall in line of a material illusion, Rose should be able to exploit anything with Kinshara Butodan.
I wonder if his Bankai would even affect BG9 on principle, or if it did affect it, how long might it be before BG9 deduces what's happening and shuts down its hearing?
I think Rose's Bankai should have encompassed "A Musical Performance Beyond Imagination" that could subvert enemies' expectations of a musical weapon, even when explained. Each act aligned with an element. A Hero's Life would be a wind-based one that literally draws your breath and suffocates you, and for those smart enough to deafen themselves, an earth-based act would cause rumbling of bass that makes you feel the music in your body even if you can't hear it. Then him explaining his ability would lead to no advantage. Perhaps even letting rose get hit only to reveal a dancer took his place, unraveling or "wilting" like a flower giving him limited shields. Alternatively, if the bankai stayed the same, maybe Rose as a character could have made a play on the explaining your powers trope by lying and saying it controlled the senses, what you see is what becomes real. A dummie like Mask would blind himself and gloat, only for Rose to finish him with A Hero's Life anyway and comment on why a he would take what an enemy says at face value, that this is war and you have to use what you can to survive. Sorry for the book of text.
What would’ve been better is if he still uses the last song but cutting away and Mask yelling, implying pain. Then when we cut back them, Mask has broken all the bones in his arms in order to get out and THEN activated his Star burst, killing him abruptly. Idk I feel like this would have made Rose seem less like he gave away the secret to his enemy
I think Prometheus, and the effects in general, dont vary based on how MUCH they believe the illusions. I think if they hear the music, theyre forced into believing it, and in turn making those illusions real, even if it doesnt make sense to them. Its like how certain melodies can sound sad, and even if we ourselves are feeling happy we still relate to it.
Well I know a story of 2 people got got trapped in a van and one of them thought they will freeze to death he died of hypothermia even tho when they were found the truck was 76 degrees or something
I think the main problem of this Bankai is the believe-aspect, cause it goes both ways. For example I would think that Kenpachi would easy win against it, cause he would believe that he can win, therefore he would fall for the illusions but none of them can be structured in a way, that would stop him, cause Kenpachi wouldn't believe that something can stop him. In a way Kenpachi has proven this against Sternritter V. But every Person that believes he/she can lose or has a weakness the opponent can abuse, will lose against Rose' Bankai.
I know I'm a Rose fan but...his Bankai, Kinshara Butōdan, is pretty badass. How strong do you think his Bankai really is? How many characters could he defeat...if he didn't tell them the secret to overcoming it? Let me know your thoughts!
Rose is cool in my book. I can understand why a lot of folks dunked on him for monologuing too much on what his Bankai could do to his opponents. It’s not entirely Rose’s fault it’s the writers behind it. Hopefully the next time he goes face to face with an opponent, he learns his lesson to not say anything to his opponent on what his Bankai could do. And to answer the question how strong his Bankai really is. On a scale to 1 to 10, I’m going to go with 8.
And how many characters could Rose defeat? I’ll go with 4.
I think it is as strong as the one of our beloved one-eyed headcaptain. Thats for several reasons. I acctually dont think you have to believe that its real because Rose told his enemie it wasnt real. That might have been a dumb move but he is not as stupid as to make his Bankai useless. The ilusion is not broken by believe but by blocking sound completly. The writing here is sadly bad. Besides Rose every, really EVERY single character told their respective power but it never hits them back. Also James shouldnt be able to heal Mask as the healing is also sound based with cheers. Kubo could have given Rose weakening James so much, that Mask had to give up his healing powers to survive. This wold have been much better than letting Mask kill James himself by being dumb himself and getting owned by one vize-captain (captain level) Renji while two captains lost. If he was weakend, it would have been nice team victory.
As Roses Bankai is an illusion, it cant be hurt physically, which should make it nearly impossible to escape by fighting against the dancers. You cant win a sword fight against something that isnt there.
Will dead captains appear in hell arc ??
From a realistic pov, Rose's Bankai is definitely an op one. If I were to rank him among the other captains, I think he only loses to Yama, Adult Hitsugaya, Kenpachi, Unohana, Shunsui and Byakuya. Shinji is debatable.
According to Klub Outside's Q&A #506,He is 2nd strongest (next to Hachigen) with regards to using Kidō!
the only bankai that can be defeated by going "lalalala i cant hear you"
Just covering your ears doesn’t work
@@garrymoloney9570 yeah I know but it sounds funnier this way
I love Roses secretly sadistic nature. It's a shame he wasn't more central to the plot in any way. I would've loved to see this side of him more.
Also, it'd be neat if the type of music he decides to play affects the abilities his bankai uses.
FACTS when it shows Rose saying “Nice” with that sadistic smile as Sea Drift is crushing him and his excited expression when yelling the third and final act Ein Helden-Leben I was like damn he’s a sadistic mad man I love it
It's plenty strong, problem is Kubo loves matching up people against the one guy or girl who can perfectly counter their power. In this case Rose was matched against a guy not only insane enough to deafen himself immediately but who could both pummel Rose immediately after and also could heal himself instantly.
Yeah, it's all started back in SS arc when Tousen fought the only shinigami who could counter his bankai (Zaraki) but it got progressively worse in future arcs (to the point where half of TYBW fights were basically about favourable/unfavorable matchups)
@@сахасахович-п2и And in the handful of situations they weren't Kubo introduces a completely new power that completely flips the script. I'm looking at Komamura conveniently having the ability to basically become immortal just so he can beat Bambietta who otherwise would've thrashed him.
One thing I prefer in series is when the characters get clever when it comes to winning against stronger opponents.
@@thefanwithoutaface8105While I half agree, I think reducing Komamura's humanization technique as just an ass pull to beat Bambietta is head empty, especially since Komamura himself didn't even intend to really fight her again.
Yep. He literally went against a fake enemy construct that can afford to do something insane like bursting your own eardrums. Generally, Quincy can’t even heal themselves like Arrancar with Resurreccion because they’re human. What Rose did really wasn’t as incompetent as people say.
The one person on the soul reapers side that could have beat Lillie…. With a special, magical weapon no less. It was so had in the war.
Mr Tommo should be commended for his loyalty, anyways a staunch supporter of the characters that get shafted by the story
I'm similar with Ikkaku.....WHY COULDNT HE GET HIS ZANPAKUTO REFORGED TOO?!
I had no problem with the Bankai, only with the writing. Kubo used both Kensei and Rose as fodder to hype-up Mask de Masculine, just so could then use Mask to hype-up Renji...
Renji, who doesn't do anything for the remainder of the arc
EDIT: Sorry, afterwards Renji did have the huge accomplishment of calling Bazz-B "Chicken-Hair" or something
the thing is, alot of people thought that the Sternritters were weaker than the Soul Reapers & HAD to steal their Bankai's just to compete (even though that wasn't the point of why they did that in the first place) either way Mask proved that they didn't need to steal Bankai to compete..
@@JxFTWplus sternritters took too many L's in second invasion so it was nice to see that it wasn't completely one-sided war (even if only vizards lost their fights)
@@JxFTW that is definitely not the main reason for why kubo did that cuz there wasn't any realistic way mask was gonna win against 2 100+ experienced captains with hollow masks that are poison to quincy and were forced to explain their powers due to plot.
Hopefully the anime will do something to fix that issue.
wut renji is right there at the end with Aizen and Ichigo
Something a lot of people don’t seem to understand about this fight is that destroying your eardrums is something that would ordinarily leave a person immobilized and not even able to stand. Whether he knew he could heal or not, the pain accompanying that and what should have followed could have crippled him and left him susceptible to a lethal attack. Being able to withstand that says more about Mask than Rose.
Also, another thing I wanna bring up. About zanpakutos, it should be noted that all Zanpakuto have a Bankai that correlate to their Shikai. However, it’s less about their element and more about their concept. The main ones that can be given as an example are Soifon’s, whose Zanpakuto focuses on trying to kill the enemy as fast as possible, going from 2 strikes one kill to one strike one kill, and Senjumaru, who can disguise and hide reality with her threads, not mention completely resew the target in the way she wants, to creating tanmonos that have their own realities that are based upon their patterns. Even Kisuke’s. His Benihime is the epitome of adaptability to any situation, and his Bankai further exemplifies that. It’s something that people fail to notice, but Zanpakuto are conceptual beings
This is my head canon for this bankais potential evolution/nature. Since its ability revolves around using sound waves, your body and other objects should still be able to ‘hear’ (feel the waves, e.g. explosion sound wave). Therefore, you would still be affected by the bankai even when deaf, but maybe to much smaller degree.
yh if rose trained to up the potency of the music then opponents would be able to feel the music through the vibrations and effective remove the weakness of the bankai but unless youre renji or rukia or you have a whole novel like shuhei, you wont be getting any character development anytime soon.
I agree.
Wonder if you can counter the music by singing louder and out of tune. Would be a funny counter and seeing rose annoyed at what horrible music he is hearing.
I think you’re right and I wonder what Rose’s beyond Bankai would have looked like in the brave souls game.
Mask wasn't the real problem, it was James. He was a subconscious imaginary hero. So unless James is eliminated, he'll just keep rejuvenating, fighting, and overcome his opponent.
But according to Mask he can bring James back too, so...
Imagine if a mute Soul reaper had that Bankai and couldnt tell his enemy how it worked, Top Tier
You know what's funny about that, the fact that we're getting a mute soul reaper in the hell arc, so unless his enemies know sign language and he decides to f****** start breaking out the Naruto hand signs, he won't be giving up the bank
Atau?
@@skeptischism1324😂
@@fordc.2831exactly XD
Now I'm wondering if being mute makes one automatically lose Kyoraku's color game. Is it like with Kinkaku and Ginkaku in Naruto, where if you are silent for too long you are forced to lose?
headcannon synopsis 🤓: the nature of roses bankai is too create any “program” so long as you believe it to be true. He uses sea drift and Prometheus to trap you into believing his deceptive songs, and once captivated or “in a state of believing” rose is able too createee a specific program to defeat his opponent (with a befiting title.).
similarities: gremmy’s the visionary. + Shunui’s bankai.
Byakuya would puncture his ears as seen when he cut his tendons fighting Zemari
And then he would be crippled without the ability to regenerate
@@olo703but he would be alive, and eventually adjust
@@olo703Byakuya had his stomach gouged out by As Nodt. Pretty sure he can get his hearing back
@@olo703 mayuri was able to resurrect a bunch of dead captains, and hiyori was able to somehow completely heal from getting cut in half by Gin. Byakuya would definitely be able to heal his eardrums.
@@olo703 That's better than being dead lol
And they have means of getting healed after the battle anyway
Can you really blame Rose? If anyone is to blame is Renji for taking too much L’s in the previous arcs. Nerfed a completely OP Bankai to make up for past Renji downfalls 😂
favorite comment lmao
Thats how i felt! Rose had to lose so that renji could come and save the day. Good for renji but why did it have to come at a cost for rose 😭
Renji rukia and chad should have had a victory against Yami working together instead of squad 11 and 6 captains coming to save the day
Now that I think about it his bankai might have actually been really strong against Lil and his intangibility. Because of how his bankai works, he doesn't need to touch him directly to damage him. As long as he could hear the melody his brain would think his body is being damaged by its effects
I'm pretty sure that its an established rule that Zanpakuto can only have one element, although it might be possible to fake it. For example, a Zanpakuto might have teh ability to manipulate heat, which would let it create fire and ice, but they all only have one power.
Even if we consider Rose being stupid enough to tell his opponent that his power works through sound, how many people would willingly deafen themselves just to counter him? Damaging your inner ear isnt exactly a good thing, it would have a good chance of destroying your balance to start with and most people cant regenerate their eardrums. Technically speaking, you could counter Aizen by blinding yourself, but most people arent going to do that. Thats why Rose was so taken aback when he realized that Mask had destroyed his own eardrums, its an absolutely insane thing to do that most people simply wouldnt.
Not to mention, Mask has no weapons. It is psychologically impossible to mutilate yourself with your bare hands. Of course, Mask isn't an actual person, so he wouldn't be limited by such things.
I like to think that is at least partially why Rose was so shocked to see him use his fingers to rupture his eardrums.
It's also important to remember that Orihime is the only character in the whole series able to heal other people's major injuries to that degree. There are exceptions (hollows/arrancar with regeneration, Yhwach's Almighty, and of course James/Mask), but it's really not a common thing, the story just keeps her & her powers central.
Rose has probably never fought someone with 1. the ability to recover from destroying their eardrums, 2. the wherewithal to know that'd work, and 3. the power to take him down immediately after neutralizing his Bankai
yall better come up w better excuse to justify kubos writing. Telling opponents the users abilities is one of bleach's cringiest aspects. Id rather have a narrator w lengthy expositions like jjk than this, who undermines people's IQ especially captains over 300+ years, just because.... 😂
@22:06 I recall Byakuya slicing his tedons VS Zommari. (Not hesitation)
Zaraki tearing his "compulsoried" arm off VS Pernida.
These characters exist. Just few and far between.
Part of me really wishes that Mask deafening himself would have prevented James from healing him. It would have made Rose and to a lesser extent Kensei feel like they contributed to Renji’s win, and messed with power scaling less. As is, it made such a cool bankai feel like fodder, and it isn’t like James did much more to contribute after this point anyways.
Agreed
Imagine being a battle-hardened captain who’s trained for centuries, only to be fodder to hype up a several-chapter villain that gets wrecked easily by somebody else who has way less experience than you.
But that’s not all! Then you become a zombie slave for some psychotic creep.
And not just one psychotic creep, but TWO psychotic creeps in a row. Talk about unlucky lmao
And does not use his fucking mask what the fuck
THANKS GREMMY
That's what pisses me off. These boring and unlikable characters given opportunity to completely stomp already liked characters that have been built up with no punchline.
One of the big things you wouldn't immediately think about with a character punching a hole in their eardrums is it would irrevocably ruin their sense of balance, they would barely be able to walk in a straight line ever again let alone swing a weapon with any proficiency, mask being able to heal himself really eas an ace that rose could never have accounted for
while a lot has been said about Rose's defeat for good reason it does seem like Rose can probably bust out a few more Symphonies for different effects and we haven't seen the full capabilities of this Bankai yet, which is exciting if the series continues
I really wish masc had just figured it out on his own, it would've made him look much scarier as a villain without making rose look stupid
Before he unleashed his bankai rose always seemed like a kurama(yuyu hakusho) knockoff with his rose whip but the bankai really gave him an identity to me.
I definitely agree that Rose's bankai is incredibly powerful. Especially if it's true that you can't cover your ears to ignore it. The lengths one would need to go to just to have it not effect them are drastic and debilitating in any type of fight. So you either die to the illusion or you weaken yourself so much the shikai, his kidō (confirmed second best kidō user of the vizard), or later on hollowed Rose, can take you out.
Maybe he conducts the flames to make them more visually interesting not for the viewers but himself, he is an artist
Yesss! I just love Rose too, he’s so cool. And his Shikai Bankai are interesting.
I remember hearing the theory that the Vizard Captain’s Zanpakuto reference the Five Senses. Shinji’s Sakanade uses Smell to reverse his opponent’s senses. Kensei’s Tachikaze will endlessly attack his opponent as long as he Touches them. Rose’s Kinshara uses music and Hearing. That leaves Love and Lisa with Taste and Sight.
I think for the water part of his technique he uses the metal whip in all directions mimicking water and for the fire section I think he lets the different sections of the whip touch and the friction from the "waves" rubbing against each other burns whatever is caught up in the coils continuously.
This was always an interesting piece of worldbuilding for me,because I don't think it's a coincidence that Aizen, Shinji and Rose had power that all tamper with the senses but all come from a different reference point, Sight Smell and Sound respectively . I always speculated that Kubo had that as a possible narrative thread at some point.
And that black guy with aizen and komumura
I think it doesn't matter if you know it's an illusion or not. Because the BAN-KAI controls music and sound and not though. The only moment mask escapes the Illinois is when he can't hear anything so as long as the
"melody is echoing thru your heart" you will be under the influence of his BANKAI. And I think that's really cool, makes it really powerful.
we got mr tommo defending rose before gt6
Rose deserves a win with his bankai during the hell arc
I was so excited to see his bankai only to make him, job to mask by explaining his ability, just to make Renji look good.
I imagine Rose's bankai is one of the most versatile, as his creativity and artistic ability are at the heart of his strength. Zanjutsu for him would be like composition sessions, rehearsals, and improvisational "jam sessions" which would build up his arsenal of illusions and strengthen his ability to compose new illusion/performances as the need arises. The relative strength of the compositions would be dependent on the amount of practice he's had with it, while the strength of his improvisational illusions would be based purely (and subjectively) on how moving they are to his "audience."
Kenpachi Zaraki might be the only other character who wouldn’t hesitate to crush his own eardrums. That said, I think Mayuri would do something similar, although in his case, he could always reconstruct them in some way. Kenpachi would do it, even knowing it would mean permanent hearing loss for him.
So he uses music to manipulate the victims reishi and reiatsu and the real weakness is the users ego? That tracks
Tbh i always thought that people were too harsh to Rose. Like sure, it was dumb for him to reveal his ability but is it really that different from all other instances in Bleach when characters explained abilities to their enemies? (Zommari explaining how his Amor works instead of silently taking Byakuya body by aiming to his head, Ulquiorra explaining how his regeneration works even if it was completely unnecessary, Byakuya telling Ichigo that Senkei blades won't attack him all at once and so on). The only difference is that Rose almost immediately paid the price for his big mouth.
when you brought up BBS I was quickly able to imagine an attack kit for him lol... his first strong attack can be a 3k beam that has his dancers throwing flames across from each other, his second strong attack can be a homing vortex of his dancers performing sea drift & his 3rd can be a full screen mix of both or another element.. then his special can be Einheldenleben & we're basically in the enemy's POV & we see a golden glow that evaporates us, while the curtains draw over us as we die lol.. idk what Einheldenleben actually does but I'm giving it so much credit if it actually does guarantee a kill lol
Oh man I love your videos so much! Bleach has ended so long ago and as I and my friend still discuss and argue and "fix" Naruto, you still make videos on Bleach 🎉 Great video!
That crazy Kenpachi... He would fight the sea.
Rose: My Zanpakuto controls music. Its deceptive melodies resound in your ears and give me power over your heart
Superstar: 👉🙂👈
Rose: 👁👃👁
The anime at least makes it less ridiculous than the manga.
⭐
would've been cool if he just switched the genre of music and it starts affecting him again because music can be something you feel within your soul
I always thought that if that fight had not been rigged for Renji to shine, the dance troupe could be more of an element of the power. If the target was not enthralled by the music (or pierced their eardrums, as one does), the dancing could capture their hearts. Rose could even laugh it off and say something like "did you think I was playing this song for you?" as he controlled the dancers into the next attack. If the enemy pierced their eyes too, well, then they would be in a terrible disadvantage. And if they still won, then they deserved it. But alas...
Rose: ⭐🍩
Always wondered if its effectiveness is limited depending on the opponents power in the same way that soi fons was
1. I'm pretty sure it could craft any illusion he desires & the names are created after the fact.
2. Given the technique means Hero's life, it would likely be a tragedy on how much Ichigo, or someone else close to Rose, suffered throughout their life. Ex. Forcing Mask to be mutilate by the enemies that Rose knew Ichigo fought, or subject Mask to the emotional despair Rose thinks Ichigo suffered without his powers.
3. He probably has productions based on tornados (debris based blunt force), rockslide (being buried alive), Thunderstorm (struck by lightning), Blizzard (Freezing) & non-weather phenomenon.
Theory: Rose's bankai uses sound. That sound resonates with your spiritual pressure thus creating the final "crescendo" to end a fight. Maybe. And I think Rose is mid tier captain. I'd rank him 8th overall at end of series.
I am glad Rose is getting his flowers. Kinshara Butodan is an deadly Bankai and is seriously underrated. I'd love to see his last act in the future, I'll let Kubo cook!
wdym getting his flowers, hes getting flamed left and right because of kubos writing. 😂
@@corndog7813exactly which is absolutely infuriating
I think a way to figure out the power isn't real is if you notice that nothing else around you is affected. Like if the ground doesn't get wet or nothing else is burning but yourself. If Maske starts burning then looks at Kensei and sees he's perfectly fine then he would probably figure it out.
Rose and Yondu would get along
Honestly, I’ve always thought that Rose NEEDS to elaborate on exactly what he is doing for his abilities to work properly.
Kinda like how Ichigo’s Getsuga Tensho is stronger when he “chants” it or how Kido works.
He’s the opposite of Shunsui almost, one is a gamer trying to outplay his opponent whereas the other is an artist detailing his art to his opponent.
I think Shutara also has a similar condition, where she explains what is going on inside each cloth.
So while you could say that “he talks too much”, that IS the point of his Bankai. It’s just that his opponent was crazy enough to go deaf just to win similar to how Kenpachi rips Berenice’s throat out before he could finish his Question.
Edit: for such an overpowered ability, it makes sense that there would be a drawback, otherwise Rose would be unbeatable. You find the same trend with Gremmy as well, he’s also his own enemy.
The same thing happens with Rukia as well, her own Bankai could kill her. Kenpachi as well, and even Shinji.
People just took the meme too far and it became “the truth” when in reality, Rose isn’t stupid, he never explains his Shikai or hollowfication or even kido, it is clearly a condition of his Bankai to explain how it works.
Most likely
Your videos butter My biscuits thank you
Not believing something is not always a conscious choice because there is always doubt. You may think you're sure you don't believe you're on fire, but if all your senses tell you that you are, then it would be really hard to override your own nervous system. Doing the ear thing was really the only defense, unless you possess the unlikely absolute control of your senses required. The only other perfect enemy for Rose would be a mindreader.
Finally one of my top 5 captains gets some love
Superstar is an oaf so he needed to be told the power of that zanpaktou...but anyone with some level of intellect would figure out that the music is probably the key because his bankai just manifest a sound from nowhere...that should raise a flag in any discerning mind. Knowing is only half of it, for sure not many would be willing to puncture their eardrums which wouldn't only deafen you but also affect balance as your ears play a role there.
Byakuya and Mayuri are the 2 captains that without hesitation would deafen themselves to counter it. We saw Byakuya injure himself on an extreme level before, and Mayuri basically is a sadist that can regenerate at the end of the day. One has to wonder though what if you create powerful sounds of your on to disrupt his music, if that would weaken the bankai? Like Giselle using tons of explosions to negate the sound that is playing.
In terms of opera a hero's life is a totally fitting name and theme for an opera so it's not unlikely that he has a preset list of programs he can use and ein heldenleben is one of them. Honestly sea drift is a more out of place one. So who's to say for sure maybe he can basically do anything he wants and create new programs on the fly.
But Rose's bankai is special and cool for one reason. The damage it does is not an illusion. Other illusion type zanpakuto like kyokasuigetsu and sakanade don't have any physical effects on their own. When rose uses prometheus mask's arm gets burnt and the material of his outfit on that part is destroyed. Even after the bankai is over that damage remains his arm is still burnt and his sleeve is destroyed. Not to mention if the last technique truly was going to just kill mask then thats clearly a real effect and not just an illusion.
Which is awesome. Cause one of the things i dislike about sakanade is that its essentially just a worse version of kyokasuigetsu. It only affects sight and is very limited in comparison. But thats just his shikai. If a captain's bankai was just a worse version of kyokasuigetsu that would be insulting. So its good that it can do things aizen's shikai cannot. So it does use sound and has no effect if the target can't hear but it does real damage its not illusions.
Also for sakanade not being able to smell would do nothing its a gas that's inhaled. The way to prevent it would be to cover all your orifices so you don't inhale or intake the gas.
With the theme being music, the final act of Rose’s bankai probably represents musical improvisation, giving him ability to create a bespoke attack for any opponent.
It reminds me of how the battle between zaraki and sternritter Q went and from what we now know he could have actually won against zaraki if it wasn't for the plot , so both sides had the same problem so it's fair .
Wait what?
Sternritter Q didn't die because of a plot bro.
Why would he have won against ZARAKI and how is it a plot? She got two seconds of screen time before her throat was torn open.
You sure bro?
Yo so I did some research. Sternritter Q is not a guy, that's a girl, the more you know.
She is Sternritter "Q", meaning she can ask a question, and if her opponent answers, they start suffering self-doubt.
SO BASICALLY. Her powers are only useful if Zaraki actually startled chatting with her but Zaraki pierced her throat to silence her, and this rendered her totally powerless.
Where did you get the Information of it being plot armor?
Because you said
"From what we know"
That's so confusing.
Let's say ZARAKI answered her questions and her powers started manifesting..
ZARAKI could just release some spiritual pressure to nullify her effects, just like Aizen did with Soi Fon's SHIKAI.
I hope you answer me because I'm fuckin curious where tf you got that information from😁
@@BladeZlayer with all my respect my bro looks like your has some flaws in it .
First it literally says that Berenice is a "he" in the official website for anime and look it up yourself.
Secondly that's not how this power works , when someone question you about your loyalty to someone you " yeah I loyal to them , what the hell are you saying" and this is when the shrift ability kicks in ; it makes you question your loyalty and in the end you lose it ,you don't need to actually answer the question itself with your lips, and the blu ray bonus for cour one Berenice was talking about how zaraki is a savage animal that all what he thinks about is killing , so he said he's gonna take away his intent to kill from him .
So theoretically Berenice can defeat any one with three questions:
First " do you have the intent to kill me?" Takes away the killing intention.
Second " are you loyal to your side?" Takes away your loyalty
Third " weren't you always loyal to Quincy side ? " and with that you are now service under Yhwach .
You would think that's too op , it's impossible for a fodder like him to have power like this.
Funny enough Berenice was never stated to be a fodder , but the fandom made him look like this cause he didn't get a proper showcase for his abilities like many other sternritters that people call them fodders . He is ability is too broken that Kubo made sure that Zaraki was deaf so don't get affected by it.
And as for the reiatsu negation in case you didn't notice yet it doesn't work with the Quincy shirfts ; we saw weakened Nanana that lost his holy form and his actual shirft got weaker than before able affect Aizen himself with no problem at all or when base Askin was able to affect Ichigo with his shrift and Ichigo couldn't do anything.
That is the answer to your questions my friend.
From Sternritter (Q) the question Berenice Gabrielle .
Shinji's Shikai + Rose's Bankai is a deadly combination!
Something to note is that Kubo only has the characters explain their powers if it is within their character to do so in that scenario, and how they do so, if they do, is also determined by the character in that scenario.
In this case, Rose is dramatic and fully confident. Even if Mask covered his ears, nothing would happen. He just never expected Mask to be capable of rupturing his own eardrums
You keep blaming Kubo and the narrative, but honestly, I can't think of a single reason why Rose WOULDN'T talk about it.
Exactly. I know it's frustrating as a reader, but to just straight up blaming the author is stupid.
@@ironclad-m3qI think the problem is maybe kubo could have gone about explaining it in a better way without telling the enemy exactly how it works.
@@gammafrost It's in character for Rose as an artist. So it's already the best for the characters.
I’m glad you did a video on rose! He’s my favorite captain 🥹
Mr Tommo is one of the 5 Rose fans.
I'm one of the other 5. I really like Rose.
guess I am one of those 5 fans
Another member of that 5 here
And one of the 3 Robert fans
I like Rose
Rose: releases Bankai once for 3 minutes.
Byakuua; released Bankai 100000x
You should make a video battle analysis on Toshiro vs Rukia
To see how toshiro wins. Yes he should
@@countries333facts the goat
I will forever stand by Rose! A cool character with some really cool abilities (his Bankai is awesome), he was just unfortunately a victim of circumstance, so Kubo could give Renji a badass moment to show off his new powers. From just some quick and dirty research, "Ein Heldenleben" is an actual music piece from a German composer, and it is made up of six different "movements," each movement being part of a hero's life, so may Ein Heldenleben could be composed of six different attacks? Haven't fully thought it through yet.
If Rose were to refine his Bankai for future battles, I think it would make sense for him to find a way for his music to penetrate the SOUL ITSELF, rather than to just emit physical sound waves to be heard by the physical eardrums. In this way, his music itself would become an illusion, and his Bankai, an inescapable masterpiece.
Rose’s bankai falls into the same pothole as Tosen’s: actually super powerful and reasonably could be used to beat many other characters, but whose only showing is against the one opponent that it’s useless against, to then never be used again.
It's really a shame that we don't see the Bankai do anything else other than injure. Having music increase the speed of other friendly fighters or help them get back up when they normally wouldn’t could make it a versatile Bankai that doesn't need to be individually strong as the 'Orchestra' and 'Conductor' work as one many times.
potential-wise, (excluding Ichigo who is an abomination) VIZARD should be stronger than Shinigami, right?
Like a Vizard Byakuya wil be stronger than Shinigami Byakuya?
Given the conception of music having different melodies and each person having different tastes, it would make sense he can tailor his bankai to make unique songs to ensnare his opponents. I doubt he has a preset 3 song playlist and is more able than at first thought
Rose is dope man. I always love the whip style attackers somethin about em is just cool. Maybe im a masochist or somethin idk. But yeah rose bankai definitely is powerful. And speaking on kisuke bankai REALLY hope the anime drags its out a bit. Please give us more time with kisuke an his creepy beautiful bankai!
Rose a nice character, of the captains Ukitake is my favorite but I like the Rose, his bankai should be like the melody of the flute of Sorento, where it attacks directly the mind of the opponent, not being possible to be canceled if he does not prevent him from performing the melody.
If Rose were to ever train his Bankai further (dunno if it’s possible), a useful extension of his ability would be using sound vibrations themselves to trick the enemy. Extending the trickery to be activated by feeling certain rhythms of vibrations would make it so the opponent has to be DEAF and not able to FEEL to completely nullify the illusions.
Haven’t seen bleach in nearly ten years but rose and shinji have always been my favorite vizards. The fact that they both have illusionary based powers make them all the more interesting to me.
I adore roses bankai. Just watched TYBW and sadly it seemed to me that roses bankai came and went w out much fanfare or effect on the enemy. I would have loved to see rose save the day on that fight.
I wanted roses bankai to have been lavished on like byakuya’s was in the soul society arc. For rose to get get one shotted in half an episode was so sad for me
It truly sucks how horrible Kubos writing of Rose was he didn’t deserve to be shit on like he was I love Kinshara Butōdan it’s my 2nd favorite Bankai in the Bleach series and Rose is my 3rd favorite captain in the Gotei 13 I really hope Kubo redeems him and in the Hell Arc he gets more love and uses his Bankai again but this time getting the killing blow on his enemies maybe Rose, Kensei, Shinji, and Lisa went to the Royal Palace during the 10 year time skip and trained like Rukia, Renji, Byakuya, and Ichigo to get stronger that would be really nice and please Kubo let them all use their damn hollow masks as Captains
I feel like a way they could have justified Rose revealing how his Bankai works is by having him use it to make the target realize they are in danger. Think about: if someone tells you "everything you hear will become real and hurt you". That instills a deep fear that you are affected by it, making it even more potent.
Against people who cant heal or recover like Mask can, that would make it easier to understand why he would do so.
Definitely something I thought after I learned about Rose's Bankai, who in their right mind would just stab your own ears just like that.
This was one of the scenes that really shows the arc's goriness, and pre anime I was thinking of how gross they could make it like having a bloody popping sound for when Mask did it, but it wasn't that bad in the anime.
But anyway, unless you really confident in your own or someone else's healing prowess, you'd have to be crazy desperate to mess up your ears that way in order to get the win.
Exactly! You’d have to be out of your mind to do that!
Rose is one of those characters where, had he been introduced earlier in the series, he could've been a major recurring character. His shikai and bankai are creative and have enough potential and variance to evolve over time. The same way that Ichigo, Ishida, and to a lesser extent Renji's abilities kept evolving over time. But he was introduced too late, and as a minor character. Which is a shame, because I would've loved to have seen more of his ability. A training arc where he's just writing songs for his dancers would've been cool. But alas, he was introduced too late and as a minor character. I am glad we got to see it though. Because for what it is, it's super cool. Maybe some of the more in tune characters like Byakuya or Ishida could figure him out. But more headstrong characters like Ikkaku, Grimmjow, or Yami would've struggled with it.
I think rose could beat most captain level fighters with the exception of the true monsters of the verse
I always thought it was kinda dumb that Masculine was able to throw off his Bamkai by rupturing his ear drums.
Feels like Kubo forgot that sound waves can resonate in the water of your body.
Did Kubo ever explain why the Vizard captains didn't use their masks during the war?
Just a hint: when pronouncing "ein Heldenleben", the emphasis is on the "Held" (hero) part.
Apart from that: I appreciate the effort you put into pronouncing all those german words and phrases. I know it's not the easiest language to learn for a native english speaker, but you pretty much nail it most of the time :)
Another case of the Arthur forgetting the power of the thought bubble.
I've waited years for kinshara butodan to be animated and put into brave souls 🎉 I hope he comes soon
Such a cool Bankai ^^
I'm a big Rose fan. I was very sad how he Kubo handled him, and never understood why Rose bankai can't work when the enemy can't hear. Human body is basiclly one big ear.
They can team up: you need a partner who don't hear music.
This Bankai is absolutely loaded with unseen potential if we assume Rose has a plethora of scores to play with varying effects and degrees of potency. In retrospect it seems like it foreshadows Senjumaru’s Bankai and her seemingly being shot down by Lille. Another commenter (@CaptainKotetsu) mentioned Rose’s resurrection as him also being enslaved by a “psychotic creep” which could also describe the allegedly wise Ichibei and his relationship with the Zero Division.
Aside from their deaths and states of servitude, Rose and Senjumaru are also loosely paralleled with their respective weaponization of “cords.” Speaking of, I’m upset to just be realizing that Kinshara resembles piano wire, or that of other instruments. Too on the nose for me to even see.
Rose needs to conduct the flames to make it more believable, so it is useful.
I personally think “Ein Helden-Leben” deprives the enemy of the ability to breathe, thus, making them suffocate to death. It’s quite a scary concept, because such death is both theatrical and violent. It’s exactly what Rose would do.
Perhaps if he has a melody that controls vines and earth he could force them to stop destroying their eardrums and start his final melody.
If this has indeed a instant-kill move, it suffers the same issues as Soifons Shikai: It just does not make a good story.
Either the enemy dies or the power is defeated entirely. There is no middle ground. No struggle in combat to maybe overcome it.
As for how captains would fare:
It is worth noting Rose only has a conductors staff. He has no weapon anymore while in bankai. If you can push through the illusions, you can probably defeat him in one swing.
- Shunsui probably would understand the mechanic/notice the melodi quickly. Not sure he is quick with self injury. He would likely rush him.
- Soifon - rush him. Assuming she didn't start teh combat with shikai from surprise.
- Unohana. Probably encountered sound based attacks befere and can heal her eardrums. Alternarively, rush him.
- Shinji's Sakanade is odd. Either it is completely negated (as no aiming is required) or it scrambles the music. At least I think it affects the wielder too, Shinji is just trained to fight with it
- Byakuya is the most likely to cut his own ear drums, healing option or not. See his Zomari fight. But he also has considerable reach and a attack that pierces his petals will tip him off that it is a illusion
- Sajin is odd. His Bankais reach might keep him out of range. Containing his main body in illusory water is not going to top the Bankai. And he is prone to go Bankai on the drop of a dime.
- Kensei only move is rushing. However, I am not sure his damage is as high as one would think. Either Kensei is utterly disrupted, or this becomes a battle of attrition vs instant kill. Maybe he can drown/disrupt the music with explosions?
- Toshiro. Another Bankai fanatic. He can kill Rose on range, even while in the illusion.
- Kenpachi cut the vacuum of space, but won't be able to cut illusions. So that will tip him off this is not real. And his instinct is to rush the enemy - so if the illusions don't stop him, he is on you in seconds
- Mayuri would likely notice the melody instantly. And he either has a off-switch for his hearing, or can just regenerate his eardrums. Assuming he isn't the second one to combat anyway - the guy likes his prep-time!
- Ukitake is the "smartest captain" and when he can't redirect any of the elements, he knows it is a illusion. So, rush him.
- Rukia. She can range attack. And her Bankai seems omni-directional/wide angle.
I think Rose's Bankai abilities seem limitless, as the known attacks are all musical orchestral pieces from famous composers. For example, he could possibly exploit "The Four Seasons - Winter" by Vivaldi and conjure up an intense blizzard on an opponent. As long as the title and theme of those orchestral symphonies can fall in line of a material illusion, Rose should be able to exploit anything with Kinshara Butodan.
I wonder if his Bankai would even affect BG9 on principle, or if it did affect it, how long might it be before BG9 deduces what's happening and shuts down its hearing?
I think Rose's Bankai should have encompassed "A Musical Performance Beyond Imagination" that could subvert enemies' expectations of a musical weapon, even when explained. Each act aligned with an element. A Hero's Life would be a wind-based one that literally draws your breath and suffocates you, and for those smart enough to deafen themselves, an earth-based act would cause rumbling of bass that makes you feel the music in your body even if you can't hear it. Then him explaining his ability would lead to no advantage. Perhaps even letting rose get hit only to reveal a dancer took his place, unraveling or "wilting" like a flower giving him limited shields. Alternatively, if the bankai stayed the same, maybe Rose as a character could have made a play on the explaining your powers trope by lying and saying it controlled the senses, what you see is what becomes real. A dummie like Mask would blind himself and gloat, only for Rose to finish him with A Hero's Life anyway and comment on why a he would take what an enemy says at face value, that this is war and you have to use what you can to survive. Sorry for the book of text.
It sounds like Rose's Bankai is a somewhat unrefined version of the Squad 0 member
What would’ve been better is if he still uses the last song but cutting away and Mask yelling, implying pain. Then when we cut back them, Mask has broken all the bones in his arms in order to get out and THEN activated his Star burst, killing him abruptly. Idk I feel like this would have made Rose seem less like he gave away the secret to his enemy
I think Prometheus, and the effects in general, dont vary based on how MUCH they believe the illusions. I think if they hear the music, theyre forced into believing it, and in turn making those illusions real, even if it doesnt make sense to them. Its like how certain melodies can sound sad, and even if we ourselves are feeling happy we still relate to it.
Well I know a story of 2 people got got trapped in a van and one of them thought they will freeze to death he died of hypothermia even tho when they were found the truck was 76 degrees or something
I think the main problem of this Bankai is the believe-aspect, cause it goes both ways. For example I would think that Kenpachi would easy win against it, cause he would believe that he can win, therefore he would fall for the illusions but none of them can be structured in a way, that would stop him, cause Kenpachi wouldn't believe that something can stop him. In a way Kenpachi has proven this against Sternritter V.
But every Person that believes he/she can lose or has a weakness the opponent can abuse, will lose against Rose' Bankai.
I kinda want to see. Rose vs Tosen
Aizen: hold my illusionary beer
If your Bankai can defeat the Main character........I say it's a good Bankai.
Kensei and his partner were always my favorite