When I took a flight of 27's tonkas to Bahrain (oh so many years ago....) on an exercise they dined out on the story of rushing to get out of the way on the pan, really cool to hear John tell it first hand after all these years.
It tickled me to hear that it has become Tornado folklore. What I forgot to mention was it was 6 Tornados and 4 Luftwaffe Phantoms. I did hear one story where he was overtaken by a Phantom in reheat. It was totally chaotic. Cheers
I totally get the "When times get tough, that [what you were first taught] is what you remember" comment.. I'm not a pilot, but I am a caver, and when I'm teaching people the various manouvres they need to move along and climb and descend ropes, even though there are things I might simplify and corners I might safely cut for myself, I make a point of stressing doing things the maximally safe way, not only for someone's immediate safety, but because (even though in this case it's rather more about fatigue than some sudden crisis) if someone finds themselves some time later climbing out of a deep cave in the small hours of the morning and/or if they are somewhat colder than they would like to be, while their conscious mind may be having issues staying alert or even awake, what their deeper mind will hang on to are those things that someone drilled into them when they first started. I've been there myself a few times, when I didn't feel like I had enough energy to move and think at the same time, but not moving wasn't a good option.
I am always amazed by the control of emotion that people who have been at the sharp end of an event display, this man performing correctly under extreme stress, my dad telling me about continuing to send morse signals when under shellfire inWW2, ordinary people doing extraordinary things.
*THAT'S because the ones who panic aren't around to recount events* The trick is to deal with the problem THEN look for a change of trousers AFTERWARDS once its resolved 😋
Some people are just built different and training can also help a lot. One time during a firefight, I wasn't actively involved in it because there was no need for Fire Support. I was so calm and oblivious I didn't realize the Humvee I was idly standing behind was trying to be towed and I was in the way. Not until the CO shouted my name and said get the hell out of the way lmao... I was daydreaming, thinking about how bored I was and wishing I could CFF. Yeah, probably not great in the middle of combat but it just goes to show you that even when your life is in danger, some people aren't bothered.
When I was in the RAF we were taught how an ejection seat works. An absolutely magnificent piece of equipment. Very intricate but also extremely reliable.
Fascinating story, especially the bit about the leg restraint and its effect on John's leg. Years earlier there was a nasty incident where an exchange Harrier pilot was flying a local sortie and chose not to wear a Mae West. Some sort of failure led to an ejection, the oxygen hose should have been clipped to a D-ring on said Mae West but was clipped to one on the flying suit instead. This attachment was too weak and as the seat separated the oxygen hose tore away from this attachment point, the hose stretched out to its maximum and the PEC was released from the seat causing it to be yanked back by the hose and hit the pilot in the throat which was a fatal injury. Just goes to show how all the kit has to work together and be in the correct configuration.
As I recall you have to have the plane around you to count it as a landing. I was also interested to know if he took up Martin Baker's standing invitation to anyone who has to use one of their seats. You can make an appointment to visit the factory and if the people who built your seat are still working there they will introduce you to them. They can do this because of the finely detailed logging done at their factories, where everything done by every individual is logged.
@@FireAngelOfLondon Hmmm *I was told any landing you can walk away from's a good one* . That leg restaint cord may have skewed the picture but As Mr Grogan did limp away Yeah - It *should* count.
HLWSCU and feedback shafts stop the wings sweeping with the flaps down. If however the feedback shafts have been disconnected during a servicing procedure and the other shift F**k up you can in fact sweep said wings with the flaps down as happened at Marham in the early 90s and is fully documented in "Groundcrew Boys" well worth a read lol.
I believe it happend at Cottesmore too long before the one at Marham😬 Sweeping the wings with the flaps down and HLWSCU feedback shafts disconnected. It made a mess and took a while to fix. I did wonder if a flap assymetry would have prevented the flaps deploying, but iirc that would have given a warning on the CWP. I guess the buttons he was talking about that illuminated were on the CSAS control panel with lane failures? Oooooh, it's a long time ago since I learnt about those😂
@125brat "Dont be enraged, the csas has engaged" 😂 yeah you could try and clear any failures on the csas control panel by pressing the relevant caption.. Flap asymmetry would throw up an error in the fscp and cause a "slat"? caption on the cwp . Its been a while 😮
Yes. Interesting about warning captions. Oddly there were no captions lit at any point apart from the fly by wire switch and that went out when it was reset. The thing that alerted me was the angle of attack was too high downwind. Cheers
@@Johnbg81327. Just wondering if with slats only deployed i.e. flaps remaining fully up, whether that would cause the nose to rise because the centre of pressure moved forward giving the increased AOA you saw? I would have thought that would have been prevented by the CSAS computers and subsequently appear on the ADR trace, but it seems not. You mentioned elsewhere the SPILS was only on the ADV but if I remember correctly, the SPILS was inhibited on the IDS because of development issues. It was only incorporated years after the aircraft was in service although the control panel was fitted from very early days.
@125brat RSAF GR1 had a Spils comp mod to have Spils active engaged by U/C lock rather than WOW as they had a habit of taking off with SPILS switched on
That is my expericane. I was a pongo, Got injured, For some reason the keee I tried to fire on is now the knee I need a strap on to go out with my latest guide dog - Bruno.
My name is Bill just wondering,I sponsored a name on the Battle of Britain, memorial on d London embankment he was Blenheim gunner from maybe Wexford or waterford.Is there any relationship.thanks.
Thank you for your question. The answer is not that I know of. My father came from Enniskillen which is quite a way from Waterford and Grogan is quite a popular name in Ireland. Cheers
The leg restraints are attached to the cockpit floor at one end and to straps around the ankle/lower leg at the other and pass through clips on the bottom of the seat pan iirc. When the seat fires and moved up the rail, the restraints pull the feet rearwards off the rudder pedals and lock them so the feet are clear of the instrument panel as the occupant leaves the aircraft. That jerk I would presume is quite forceful, so the leg restraints have to be pretty strong. Again iirc, they are severed by guillotines when the occupant separates from the seat so it falls away cleanly. Obviously in this instance, it didn't work as intended but John was very lucky not to lose his leg.
Ah, that is interesting. I’d forgotten about the guillotine. My story comes from the AIB comments to me. Maybe the ‘caught in the DRing ‘ was not quite accurate. Similarly the 5000 lb breaking strain. It certainly needs to be strong because as well as what you described it also has to stop the legs flailing in a high speed ejection. Maybe it wasn’t as much as 5000 lb. Maybe someone from Martin Baker would know - I’ll give them a call. You may be interested to know that, according to the AIB, John my navigator pulled his handle milliseconds before me - which makes the ‘long wait’ for my ejection even more weird. Cheers
@@Johnbg81327. I would imagine the time between you pulling the handle once you'd made the decision to "Jettison the aircraft" and feeling the seat firing seemed like an hour especially being so close to the ground. Again, with the command eject set to both, the canopy has got to clear first (or does the MDC fire?, I can't remember to be honest) so the rear seat can leave, then the front seat is initiated. Either way, thank goodness you both made the same decision and survived. Well done Sir 😁
Support the channel - www.aircrewinterview.tv/donate/
I could listen to these Guys all day because it's from real first hand experience, told how it happened. Amazing 👍
When I took a flight of 27's tonkas to Bahrain (oh so many years ago....) on an exercise they dined out on the story of rushing to get out of the way on the pan, really cool to hear John tell it first hand after all these years.
It tickled me to hear that it has become Tornado folklore. What I forgot to mention was it was 6 Tornados and 4 Luftwaffe Phantoms. I did hear one story where he was overtaken by a Phantom in reheat. It was totally chaotic. Cheers
Totally transfixed the whole way through. Thank you !
Glad you enjoyed it!
I totally get the "When times get tough, that [what you were first taught] is what you remember" comment..
I'm not a pilot, but I am a caver, and when I'm teaching people the various manouvres they need to move along and climb and descend ropes, even though there are things I might simplify and corners I might safely cut for myself, I make a point of stressing doing things the maximally safe way, not only for someone's immediate safety, but because (even though in this case it's rather more about fatigue than some sudden crisis) if someone finds themselves some time later climbing out of a deep cave in the small hours of the morning and/or if they are somewhat colder than they would like to be, while their conscious mind may be having issues staying alert or even awake, what their deeper mind will hang on to are those things that someone drilled into them when they first started.
I've been there myself a few times, when I didn't feel like I had enough energy to move and think at the same time, but not moving wasn't a good option.
Love John Grogan's sang froid. Great channel by the way. It's wonderful to hear these experiences recounted by the guys themselves.
Cheers
I am always amazed by the control of emotion that people who have been at the sharp end of an event display, this man performing correctly under extreme stress, my dad telling me about continuing to send morse signals when under shellfire inWW2, ordinary people doing extraordinary things.
*THAT'S because the ones who panic aren't around to recount events*
The trick is to deal with the problem
THEN look for a change of trousers AFTERWARDS once its resolved 😋
Some people are just built different and training can also help a lot. One time during a firefight, I wasn't actively involved in it because there was no need for Fire Support. I was so calm and oblivious I didn't realize the Humvee I was idly standing behind was trying to be towed and I was in the way. Not until the CO shouted my name and said get the hell out of the way lmao... I was daydreaming, thinking about how bored I was and wishing I could CFF. Yeah, probably not great in the middle of combat but it just goes to show you that even when your life is in danger, some people aren't bothered.
Wonderful story. Thank you both for sharing it. 👏👏👏
When I was in the RAF we were taught how an ejection seat works. An absolutely magnificent piece of equipment. Very intricate but also extremely reliable.
Much better than they used to be lol. I'd much rather have rockets underneath me than literal bombs.
I did warn you about flying in Aircraft of Multiple Occupancy! Still a great storyteller, Grogers. Happy memories of our Harrier PAI Course.
Fascinating story, especially the bit about the leg restraint and its effect on John's leg.
Years earlier there was a nasty incident where an exchange Harrier pilot was flying a local sortie and chose not to wear a Mae West. Some sort of failure led to an ejection, the oxygen hose should have been clipped to a D-ring on said Mae West but was clipped to one on the flying suit instead. This attachment was too weak and as the seat separated the oxygen hose tore away from this attachment point, the hose stretched out to its maximum and the PEC was released from the seat causing it to be yanked back by the hose and hit the pilot in the throat which was a fatal injury. Just goes to show how all the kit has to work together and be in the correct configuration.
I find myself liking your videos/ interviews at the start. Not seen a bad one yet mate 👍🏼
Cheers!
He is very very lucky! What a story!
Thank you.
As you landed on the runway does it count as a take off and landing on that trip?
As I recall you have to have the plane around you to count it as a landing. I was also interested to know if he took up Martin Baker's standing invitation to anyone who has to use one of their seats. You can make an appointment to visit the factory and if the people who built your seat are still working there they will introduce you to them. They can do this because of the finely detailed logging done at their factories, where everything done by every individual is logged.
@@FireAngelOfLondonThat's a good sign of quality. Wish Boeing did the same!
Actually no. But you’ve given me food for thought - I’ll give them a call👍
@@Johnbg81327. so
You are one of the rare bunch where your landing and takeoffs don’t tally up
@@FireAngelOfLondon Hmmm *I was told any landing you can walk away from's a good one* .
That leg restaint cord may have skewed the picture but As Mr Grogan did limp away
Yeah - It *should* count.
Thanks for this.
Cheers
Very brave man
HLWSCU and feedback shafts stop the wings sweeping with the flaps down. If however the feedback shafts have been disconnected during a servicing procedure and the other shift F**k up you can in fact sweep said wings with the flaps down as happened at Marham in the early 90s and is fully documented in "Groundcrew Boys" well worth a read lol.
I believe it happend at Cottesmore too long before the one at Marham😬 Sweeping the wings with the flaps down and HLWSCU feedback shafts disconnected. It made a mess and took a while to fix.
I did wonder if a flap assymetry would have prevented the flaps deploying, but iirc that would have given a warning on the CWP.
I guess the buttons he was talking about that illuminated were on the CSAS control panel with lane failures? Oooooh, it's a long time ago since I learnt about those😂
@125brat "Dont be enraged, the csas has engaged" 😂
yeah you could try and clear any failures on the csas control panel by pressing the relevant caption..
Flap asymmetry would throw up an error in the fscp and cause a "slat"? caption on the cwp . Its been a while 😮
Yes. Interesting about warning captions. Oddly there were no captions lit at any point apart from the fly by wire switch and that went out when it was reset. The thing that alerted me was the angle of attack was too high downwind. Cheers
@@Johnbg81327. Just wondering if with slats only deployed i.e. flaps remaining fully up, whether that would cause the nose to rise because the centre of pressure moved forward giving the increased AOA you saw? I would have thought that would have been prevented by the CSAS computers and subsequently appear on the ADR trace, but it seems not.
You mentioned elsewhere the SPILS was only on the ADV but if I remember correctly, the SPILS was inhibited on the IDS because of development issues. It was only incorporated years after the aircraft was in service although the control panel was fitted from very early days.
@125brat RSAF GR1 had a Spils comp mod to have Spils active engaged by U/C lock rather than WOW as they had a habit of taking off with SPILS switched on
Nice listen.
Great yarn!
12 feet...great seat 👍
That is my expericane. I was a pongo, Got injured, For some reason the keee I tried to fire on is now the knee I need a strap on to go out with my latest guide dog - Bruno.
Is it still working? Sir you are a lucky man,
,
Very interesting, so nonchalant about having to eject, great story to hear.
12' ? Could have just jumped down from there, mate.
My name is Bill just wondering,I sponsored a name on the Battle of Britain, memorial on d London embankment he was Blenheim gunner from maybe Wexford or waterford.Is there any relationship.thanks.
He was Grogan
Thank you for your question. The answer is not that I know of. My father came from Enniskillen which is quite a way from Waterford and Grogan is quite a popular name in Ireland. Cheers
If the Bck Str hears the 3rd "Eject" he has waited too long. The Ejection Sequence in some aircraft has little forgiveness!!!
5,000 lb breaking strain cord for leg restaint WHY?
I do hope they've reviewed & reset for something adequate but less lethal for current aircraft
The leg restraints are attached to the cockpit floor at one end and to straps around the ankle/lower leg at the other and pass through clips on the bottom of the seat pan iirc. When the seat fires and moved up the rail, the restraints pull the feet rearwards off the rudder pedals and lock them so the feet are clear of the instrument panel as the occupant leaves the aircraft. That jerk I would presume is quite forceful, so the leg restraints have to be pretty strong. Again iirc, they are severed by guillotines when the occupant separates from the seat so it falls away cleanly. Obviously in this instance, it didn't work as intended but John was very lucky not to lose his leg.
Ah, that is interesting. I’d forgotten about the guillotine. My story comes from the AIB comments to me. Maybe the ‘caught in the DRing ‘ was not quite accurate. Similarly the 5000 lb breaking strain. It certainly needs to be strong because as well as what you described it also has to stop the legs flailing in a high speed ejection. Maybe it wasn’t as much as 5000 lb. Maybe someone from Martin Baker would know - I’ll give them a call. You may be interested to know that, according to the AIB, John my navigator pulled his handle milliseconds before me - which makes the ‘long wait’ for my ejection even more weird. Cheers
@@Johnbg81327. I would imagine the time between you pulling the handle once you'd made the decision to "Jettison the aircraft" and feeling the seat firing seemed like an hour especially being so close to the ground. Again, with the command eject set to both, the canopy has got to clear first (or does the MDC fire?, I can't remember to be honest) so the rear seat can leave, then the front seat is initiated. Either way, thank goodness you both made the same decision and survived. Well done Sir 😁