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The US turned a blind eye while US citizen Gonzalo Lira was tortured in a Ukrainian prison for reporting on the events honestly. He may very well be back there now.... In context to govts justifying accepting atrocities when it suits their proxy war interests. He may very well be back in custody now. Its too bad he wasnt smoking pot and being stunning and brave, or else theyd trade terrorists like the merchant of death or whatever to get him out, but Im sure the US knows he was being tortured and was probably in on it. As an aside, f proxy wars, and f ukraine.
There's an often overlooked conflict involving Europeans and economics in South America, the salpeter war between Peru and Chile. It's bizarre no one has made a video on it yet
The Korean war was an interesting proxy in that there were Soviet pilots flying against American ones. They just painted their planes with the Korean military's colors and engaged the American-led UN forces. That would cross the line from proxy into direct confrontation but both sides just pretended it wasn't happening because nukes.
it helped that it was never proven by shooting down & capturing a Russian pilot. If a Russian pilot was ever caught then things may have been different.
@@thesauceman8457 China did not have nukes. Conflict between them and the USA was possible w/o nuclear war. It didn't escalate because Truman fired McCarthur who was smoking crack and wanted to carpet bomb China and even nuke them. Either option was gonna get WW3 started.
You should have mentioned Nigerian Civil War,one of rare examples of auto-team balance in real life. Not to mention confusing team composition. On Nigerian side we had Egypt,USA,UK and USSR face of against China, France and Portugal,with Czezhoslovakia and Israel switching sides mid way. Even Vatican took part in the madness
1:10 - Chapter 1 - The method 2:30 - Mid roll ads 4:10 - Back to the video 9:30 - Chapter 2 - The history 16:55 - Chapter 3 - The present day 22:35 - Chapter 4 - Future and analysis
I appreciate how the episode took the time to outline how not all modern / current proxy wars are between the US and Russia (or the US's other adversaries); such as the Suez Crisis and the conflict between Iran and Saudi Arabia. Far too often, people default into a simplistic, US-Russia bipolarity world view and not miss recognising a more complex geopolitical landscape where differing factions hold differing spheres of influence and partnerships in differing parts of the world.
@@tylermorrison420hey bud, hopefully you see this reply, no it is not like that at all. It is far more like saying here, this is a microscope, it has 100X power, and here is an electron microscope, it has 1,000,000 power, look at this cell with both scopes, it’s not the same dude. We aren’t always against our enemy, we need our enemy sometimes
An argument could be made that the proxy war going on in Yemen between Iran and Saudi Arabia is kind of a proxy war for America. It's a twice removed proxy war on one side and a direct proxy war on the other side.
The Chinese have some of the earliest records of utilizing proxies against their enemies. They even have some of the earliest manuals in how to manage a proxy war and how to orchestrate coups and unrest in other countries. As far back as the Han dynasty, the Chinese used to arm insurgents of Tibet and Central Asia with arrows, swords, and ancient firearms against their overlords.
I think one thing that you missed were colonial proxy wars where European powers exerted their influence in a region by escalating tensions between locals, or even pitting their own colony against another European colony. This happened a lot during the French-Indian War where American and Quebec forces would clash under orders of Britain and France with the help of various tribes like the Iroquois and the Ottowa. Other good examples include the British conquest pf India and the Scramble for Africa.
Forgot to mention that the Algonquin and Iroquois were actively fighting against each other when the French arrived. The French sided with the Algonquin (because they were the first people they encountered) which made them enemy of the Iroquois. When Britain and France started fighting for power, the Iroquois sided with the British because France sided with their enemies. It was a four-way proxy war with two alliances hoping to use their partner in defeating their traditional enemy.
I mean Lenin did wage war on the majority of his populace; his political party lost the votes so he resorted to violence. Though I guess the fighting was more led by Trotsky
Probably the most entertaining comments section I've seen in a long time. Very little typical derp derp riff raff and people just taking the piss. Well done folks!
For all the hatred, the evil, the corruption, the negligence and ouright disregard for human life, it is sometimes amazing how, despite having at their disposal weapons that could wipe out entire cities at a time, no-one hated enough, or was evil enough, or cared little enough about human life, to actually use them in an all-out war, even against an enemy who didn't have such weapons in their arsenals (WWII not withstanding). See the Vietnam War, the Korean War, the Malvinas/Falklands War, the Iraq War, in all those conflicts, a nation with access to nuclear armament (US/US/UK/US, there's a pattern there, I can feel it) went on against nations/factions without (North Vietnam/North Korea and China/Argentina/Iraq) and despite being more than able to force a surrender just by dropping some well-placed nukes, they just accepted to duke it out in the old-fashioned way. And mind you, neither Argentina nor Iraq were backed by a nuclear-armed nation, so there wasn't a risk of angering the buffed-out friend of your enemy by bombing the hell out of their main cities...
It would be great to get a deep dive into Franco, the war, the outcome for Spain (short and longterm) and Europe in that troubled time. Maybe even a longer series about Spain, as it has a long and interesting one for this channel
8:32 Wrong, Simon The Mujahideen were a collection of Afghan tribes who banded together to fight off the Soviet invasion of their homeland. After that they split into multiple groups, one of which is the Taliban. After the Taliban conquest in 2021, they are still fighting insurgencies against other factions with whom they were once allied
The Taliban were the biggest and most influential group that existed after the Soviet-afgan war proclaiming themselves as the successor of the mantel. And no, there are no group fighting the Taliban that has anything to do with the Mujahedeen, the only fighting force left in Afghanistan that are against the Taliban are the ISIL, an ISIS remnant funded and protected by the US since the Kunduz airlift, they have never claimed nor have any relation with Taliban or the Mujahedeen. Or maybe you are talking about the northern opium warlords, they have all surrendered and left the country aftet the US retreat. They are various group of ethnic and religious minorities, whom rights were firmly protected by the Soviets, whom temporarily allied with US for their enrichment and protection from the Taliban discrimination, this group is usually are usually misrepresented intentionally by US propaganda as "liberals" and the "true Mujahedeen" to shield themselves from embarrassment from funding terrorist that killed thousands of their own peoples, the groups themselves has never claimed so, being politically against the Mujahedeen. The northern warlords being subjected to US demand to "democratize" and "embrace western culture" have officially joined the Taliban, some warlords still want to hold on to power but have to left the country and denounced by their tribal elders, most groups of the northern alliance are now in Taliban governments with legal rights protection and representation in governments.
Great example, although I'm not sure it qualifies as a proxy war. Alexios I was aiming to hire a large number of Western knights to fight directly for him, and even required them to swear allegiance to him and directly return any cities they conquered to the Roman Empire. They ended up being much more independent than he had hoped, but the intent was to treat them more as mercenaries than as a nominally independent proxy force.
@@philipdemaeyer1665 True. In defense of the Romans, though, they didn't start the war. The Turks had just invaded and conquered much of their heartland, which they had inhabited for the past millennium. Wanting their land back was pretty reasonable, IMO.
The best thing I like about Simon is when eh does he and ad he actually makes it interesting and fun unlike some others who can just be basically reading off a script
Simon, this is by far the best of your channels. It's just absolutely full of context for understanding the world and extremely entertaining. You and the writers are doing a great job.
I think two type of proxy war should be taken into consideration: 1. The proxy is fronting the interests of the behind the scene partner. 2. The conflict is already ongoing or inevitable (debatable) and the supporting partner pick a side to support. The issue usually is if the conflict was inevitable or if the support given started the conflict. The Ukraine war is a proxy war in both phases, before and after russian troops got on the ground. The western support of Ukraine isn't different from the material, training and consulting given local fighters by the US against the soviet invesion of Afganistan. Moraly we have few issue with the second type and quite some issues with the first type. I think that the first phase of the war was of type 1 (Ukraine vs separatist) but I can understand why someone might disagree with me. This doesn't include Crimea which is a separate issue.
The Wagner group attacking US special forces unit at the gas plant was classic. Approximately 500 Wagner with armor and artillery vs. 50 US and Syrian rebel fighters with guest appearances by American AirPower
It was only 50 Wagner and hundreds of Syrian allies , propaganda really gotta y'all fucked , same said for the lone survivor situation according to the average American and Hollywood it was 4 vs 100s but in reality it was less then 12
They charged into a minefield. Bad call for the Ukrainian command for not looking before leaping. Not an example Russian combat prowess. Remove the minefield or the lack of tactical awareness of the Ukrainian command for missing the minefield in this avoidable incident and it would have gone very badly for Russia. Ukraine got careless. Russia got lucky.
@@satanicmicrochipv5656 buddy the entire frontline is a minefield and it’s easier to say they need to remove it than it is to actually remove a minefield.
Great video, but a quick correction for 10 mins in: in the Wars of the Roses the French king backed Lancaster, and Burgundy backed York, not the other way around.
one important feature is that if a nation is drawn into a war its geopolitical opponents will try to help the smaller nation to weaken its enemy. often "personal" wars become more complicated when an adversary sees an opportunity to weaken its rival. if the Vietnam war is a proxy war then so is Ukraine. the north Vietnamese were definitely fighting for independence and would have fought without aid. also the south Vietnamese received far more support than the eastern Ukraine separatists movements have, and south Vietnam was practically created by the US while eastern Ukraine has always had some desire for secession. something being a proxy war does not mean the smaller nation does not have real motivation or justification in fighting.
I'll never forget the moment when we kicked down a door in Sadr Al YUsufiah and found a room full of white guys sitting around with a pile of AKs, a couple RPGs, and a mortar in the middle of the floor. I put a round right in front of the first guy that moved without hesitation. I guess they thought they were still dealing with the weekend warrior national guard unit we'd inherited the AO from. Instead they got a bunch of guys from the 101st with decked out M4s and fancy new camo. We knew right away who we were dealing with.
There is one more unspoken proxy war.. that against us backed Pakistan and Russia supported India. That still plays out today with slightly different dynamics.. also the civil interest in niger etc backed by Wagner with ecowas being backed by "Western" forces
I'm not sure you can say that's still ongoing. The US is now much more invested in its relationship with India than it is with Pakistan, especially militarily, and India has been edging away from Russia as Russia's significance on the global stage decreases.
@@JackHankeAnd of course, is support for Pak may not be ongoing right now considering China is supporting pak now, thereby changing the dynamics. Until very recently though, it was a real thing.
@@36minutesago7 you do realize that it's the Kurds living inside of Syria that have kicked ISIS out and established a safe area when civilians of all ethnicity's and religions can live their lives safe from attacks from everywhere except Turkish and Russian airforces right? The right of self rule is a natural human right and it's up to people living anywhere they are too determined how free they want to be. Obviously if they are subjects of a foreign power they might have to fight for that independence. But it's not a governments position to give something away that it doesn't possess the right to to begin with.
Your channel to casual criminalist is particularly interesting when it comes to figuring out who you are Simon it's interesting seeing a channel about war from a coward
me leaving war thunder after notification that warographics uploaded. i was like yessss!. and then. "todays sponsor its WAR THUNDER" i was like.... damn, i cant even escape this game LOL
You should do a piece about the fall of the USSR because I hear how it "collapsed" far too often and that kind of overlooks the whole "take the head of state hostage and spark a full-blown popular uprising which brings down the established order from whence the hostage takers came" thing.
The troops of the major powers in involved in the conflict may come into contact with each other in a combat action..In the Vietnam Conflict Mac-v-sog operators were in open fire Fights with Chinese and Soviet Operators in Laos and Cambodia
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When Metal Gear Solid is played in living rooms, real-life Call of Duty is played on the stage of the world. When Call of Duty is played from the couch, the real world plays Metal Gear Solid 4. Kinda. All at the same time, all at once. Kinda.
I adore the Muhammad Ali comment lol. My teacher always went to effort to say Mehmet Ali or even Mehmet Ali Pasha, so we were never confused, cuz it totally came up in class lmao.
I would hesitate to call the Finnish Civil War a true proxy conflict, since Germany was at the time fighting a very real war with Russia. It was Germany's victory in that war which sealed the fate of the Finnish Reds, because in the peace of Brest-Litovsk the Bolsheviks were prohibited from supporting them. Consequently they were overrun by a combined White Guard-German army.
Simon, shame I stopped teaching almost 10 years ago. I'd have certainly used videos like this one as a support teaching resource. I used to be a bilingual sociology/cultural studies teacher in Brazil. Some of your videos would fall like a glove to cover sociology and English language curricula. Congratulations. Top marks!!!
@maquacr7014 As I said, they would be used as a support resource. You can't simply bombard sociological theory to 16 to 18 yo students. You start with something they can reach, like Cold War, expand the topic into proxi wars (that's when the video would be useful), and then, a bit of sociological theory would top it up. In this case, Samuel Huntington's Clash of Civilizations, which falls into the umbrella of Sociology (and not Political Science) when it comes to what is known as 6th form in the UK. Not an easy task, and certainly to advanced students.
The Mujihadeen were not the same thing as the Taliban. I truly wish people would understand this. There was crossover yes, but there's not a straight fucking line from anti-soviet fighters to the Taliban
Excellent coverage of the majority of proxy wars but the myriad of conflicts in Central & South America had only a bare mention. An episode on those - and considering how many there have been and still are ongoing - would not be remiss.
That's not the Soviet flag at 6:11. The real flag didn't have a wreath. The fictional flag was made in 2007 by Wikipedia user Oren neu dag. It was titled "An imaginary flag of the New USSR".
1:13: 🔍 Proxy warfare is a form of war in which major powers use third parties to fight on their behalf. 3:36: 🔥 Proxy wars are a strategic way for major powers to avoid direct conflict and bear the cost of war while pursuing their goals. 7:11: 💼 Proxy warfare is a short-term and conditional partnership where a major power supports a smaller nation or non-state actor to achieve their goals. 10:11: 🌍 Proxy wars have been a recurring theme throughout history, with foreign powers supporting different factions in conflicts around the world. 13:27: 🌍 The Cold War was characterized by proxy conflicts between the US and the Soviet Union, with both sides supporting opposing factions in civil wars and regional disputes around the world. 17:28: 🌍 The conflicts in Syria, Libya, and Yemen have become complex proxy wars involving multiple countries. 20:50: 🌍 The concept of proxy wars is becoming more relevant as regional powers grow more militarily fearsome, with debates on whether certain conflicts qualify as true proxy wars. 24:05: 🌍 Proxy warfare is likely to continue being used by major powers such as the US and Russia, as well as Iran, Saudi Arabia, UAE, and Israel in the Middle East. Recap by Tammy AI
20:50 You are politely ignoring a few proxy-incriminating facts: 1) PooXi and P00ti not only declared "unlimited friendship", but P00ti waited for PooXi's braggadocious Olympics to end before attempting to seize Kyiv. 2) Xina has designated itself as a "near-Arctic" nation. 3) Xina now refers to Vladivostok as Hǎishēnwǎi 4) Xina wants oil. Siberia has oil. 5) Xina is posturing as a "peace-keeper" with a laughably unacceptable proposal.
My parents fled El Salvador in the early 80’s cause proxy war, dictatorship government was sponsored by the USA while communist rebels where sponsored by Soviet Union, Country was worn torn from late 70’s when protests stated to full civil war from 1980-1992
Kinds funny....the atomic bomb clips shows the house roasting before being blown apart......but the 1940s camera remains unharmed. Some good reinforcement.
Thus, people should be very careful who they associate with. For even a fool if associated with "those" people may think himself as like "the men above all". We should be very careful whom to be around with.
Instead of the war in Ukraine being a war for independence for Ukraine, maybe it’s more accurate to say it’s a war for Ukraine to maintain their independence that they already had. A bit like the War of 1812 for the US.
you can't really talk about proxy wars on earth without mentioning the "divide and conquer" policy of Great Britain. More than half of the current conflicts on the planet have their source there.
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The US turned a blind eye while US citizen Gonzalo Lira was tortured in a Ukrainian prison for reporting on the events honestly. He may very well be back there now.... In context to govts justifying accepting atrocities when it suits their proxy war interests. He may very well be back in custody now.
Its too bad he wasnt smoking pot and being stunning and brave, or else theyd trade terrorists like the merchant of death or whatever to get him out, but Im sure the US knows he was being tortured and was probably in on it.
As an aside, f proxy wars, and f ukraine.
There's an often overlooked conflict involving Europeans and economics in South America, the salpeter war between Peru and Chile. It's bizarre no one has made a video on it yet
War thunder mobile ❤
This “art of war” series is really cool, someone should write a book about it! 😃
I think a dog wrote it, ShihTzu
"A good commander is benevolent and unconcerned with fame."
-Sun-Tuh-Zoo
"Until a mosquito lands on one's testicles, one does not truly understand restraint" -Sun Tzu, probably
I've been saying that for months 😤😬
@@Metaphix My favorite Sun-Tzu quote.
🤣
The Korean war was an interesting proxy in that there were Soviet pilots flying against American ones. They just painted their planes with the Korean military's colors and engaged the American-led UN forces. That would cross the line from proxy into direct confrontation but both sides just pretended it wasn't happening because nukes.
It was a mess.
it helped that it was never proven by shooting down & capturing a Russian pilot. If a Russian pilot was ever caught then things may have been different.
Well there was direct conflict with China in that war too, but it somehow didn’t escalate outside of Korea.
@@thesauceman8457 China did not have nukes. Conflict between them and the USA was possible w/o nuclear war. It didn't escalate because Truman fired McCarthur who was smoking crack and wanted to carpet bomb China and even nuke them. Either option was gonna get WW3 started.
@@dcptivIf a pilot was caught AND we admitted it. That second part was key.
Simon has declared a proxy war on my free time.
Damn you Simon.
Damn you.
Explain how it's only indirect. I'm confused.
@@odinfromcentr2
Simon is simply narrating, the channel is doing his dirty work.
@@georgehh2574actualy... its youtube fighting this war For simon by demanding your time
You should have mentioned Nigerian Civil War,one of rare examples of auto-team balance in real life. Not to mention confusing team composition. On Nigerian side we had Egypt,USA,UK and USSR face of against China, France and Portugal,with Czezhoslovakia and Israel switching sides mid way. Even Vatican took part in the madness
I'll have to look into that, I never heard anything like that.
Its sort of like the suez crisis where it was israel, the uk and france against egypt, the usa and the ussr.
Vatican how?
@silverhawkscape2677 the Rebels were Catholic, whilst the rest of Nigeria was half Protestant half Muslim
He made a video about it
th-cam.com/video/O2OLdE6peHY/w-d-xo.htmlsi=0_VKYg0ZzndZXtYi
1:10 - Chapter 1 - The method
2:30 - Mid roll ads
4:10 - Back to the video
9:30 - Chapter 2 - The history
16:55 - Chapter 3 - The present day
22:35 - Chapter 4 - Future and analysis
U my friend, r a saint & a scholar!
🙏
Always appreciate people like you
Sun Tzu listed a chapter breakdown like that and I'd say he knows a little more about listing than you do pal, because he invented it!
I felll alseep when in hisotry
I appreciate how the episode took the time to outline how not all modern / current proxy wars are between the US and Russia (or the US's other adversaries); such as the Suez Crisis and the conflict between Iran and Saudi Arabia. Far too often, people default into a simplistic, US-Russia bipolarity world view and not miss recognising a more complex geopolitical landscape where differing factions hold differing spheres of influence and partnerships in differing parts of the world.
Dude wtf are you talking about
That's like saying people don't talk about jv as much as the varsity team
Lmfao and? Duh
@@tylermorrison420hey bud, hopefully you see this reply, no it is not like that at all. It is far more like saying here, this is a microscope, it has 100X power, and here is an electron microscope, it has 1,000,000 power, look at this cell with both scopes, it’s not the same dude. We aren’t always against our enemy, we need our enemy sometimes
Ruzzia has been an irrelevant regional power since the collapse of the soviet union, china is the US's only true rival anymore.
An argument could be made that the proxy war going on in Yemen between Iran and Saudi Arabia is kind of a proxy war for America. It's a twice removed proxy war on one side and a direct proxy war on the other side.
@@andrewmathias1967 this is correct, arms are funded partly by black rock
The Chinese have some of the earliest records of utilizing proxies against their enemies. They even have some of the earliest manuals in how to manage a proxy war and how to orchestrate coups and unrest in other countries. As far back as the Han dynasty, the Chinese used to arm insurgents of Tibet and Central Asia with arrows, swords, and ancient firearms against their overlords.
Do you know what some of these manuals are called? I’d love to see if they have English translations
@@yodatrombonist121 I only know the "Art of War" by SunTzu. Your local college may have have some good Chinese sources on the topics
I think one thing that you missed were colonial proxy wars where European powers exerted their influence in a region by escalating tensions between locals, or even pitting their own colony against another European colony. This happened a lot during the French-Indian War where American and Quebec forces would clash under orders of Britain and France with the help of various tribes like the Iroquois and the Ottowa. Other good examples include the British conquest pf India and the Scramble for Africa.
Forgot to mention that the Algonquin and Iroquois were actively fighting against each other when the French arrived. The French sided with the Algonquin (because they were the first people they encountered) which made them enemy of the Iroquois. When Britain and France started fighting for power, the Iroquois sided with the British because France sided with their enemies. It was a four-way proxy war with two alliances hoping to use their partner in defeating their traditional enemy.
You mean the aboriginals were not smoking peace pipes and banging all the time?
That's what Trudeau says
What a time to be a live, Lenin himself teaching us the art of war.
Lenin was an international socialist, I reckon he thought about war a lot. At least the need for proxy war to create more communist states.
I mean
Lenin did wage war on the majority of his populace; his political party lost the votes so he resorted to violence.
Though I guess the fighting was more led by Trotsky
@ClericOfPholtus His own people and every other peoples within their vicinity
WAR THUNDER: The most fun I've ever had, while not having any fun.
Simon loves it when we say he looks like every other bald guy with a beard.
Probably the most entertaining comments section I've seen in a long time. Very little typical derp derp riff raff and people just taking the piss. Well done folks!
Sun Tzu commented that! And I'd say he knows a little more about commenting that you do _pal_ because he invented it!
For all the hatred, the evil, the corruption, the negligence and ouright disregard for human life, it is sometimes amazing how, despite having at their disposal weapons that could wipe out entire cities at a time, no-one hated enough, or was evil enough, or cared little enough about human life, to actually use them in an all-out war, even against an enemy who didn't have such weapons in their arsenals (WWII not withstanding).
See the Vietnam War, the Korean War, the Malvinas/Falklands War, the Iraq War, in all those conflicts, a nation with access to nuclear armament (US/US/UK/US, there's a pattern there, I can feel it) went on against nations/factions without (North Vietnam/North Korea and China/Argentina/Iraq) and despite being more than able to force a surrender just by dropping some well-placed nukes, they just accepted to duke it out in the old-fashioned way. And mind you, neither Argentina nor Iraq were backed by a nuclear-armed nation, so there wasn't a risk of angering the buffed-out friend of your enemy by bombing the hell out of their main cities...
Billions to Ukraine are cheaper than military funerals in West Europe or USA. Sad but it's true
Warographics notification equals instant click. Very interesting topic
It would be great to get a deep dive into Franco, the war, the outcome for Spain (short and longterm) and Europe in that troubled time. Maybe even a longer series about Spain, as it has a long and interesting one for this channel
8:32 Wrong, Simon
The Mujahideen were a collection of Afghan tribes who banded together to fight off the Soviet invasion of their homeland. After that they split into multiple groups, one of which is the Taliban. After the Taliban conquest in 2021, they are still fighting insurgencies against other factions with whom they were once allied
The Taliban were the biggest and most influential group that existed after the Soviet-afgan war proclaiming themselves as the successor of the mantel.
And no, there are no group fighting the Taliban that has anything to do with the Mujahedeen, the only fighting force left in Afghanistan that are against the Taliban are the ISIL, an ISIS remnant funded and protected by the US since the Kunduz airlift, they have never claimed nor have any relation with Taliban or the Mujahedeen.
Or maybe you are talking about the northern opium warlords, they have all surrendered and left the country aftet the US retreat. They are various group of ethnic and religious minorities, whom rights were firmly protected by the Soviets, whom temporarily allied with US for their enrichment and protection from the Taliban discrimination, this group is usually are usually misrepresented intentionally by US propaganda as "liberals" and the "true Mujahedeen" to shield themselves from embarrassment from funding terrorist that killed thousands of their own peoples, the groups themselves has never claimed so, being politically against the Mujahedeen.
The northern warlords being subjected to US demand to "democratize" and "embrace western culture" have officially joined the Taliban, some warlords still want to hold on to power but have to left the country and denounced by their tribal elders, most groups of the northern alliance are now in Taliban governments with legal rights protection and representation in governments.
10:00 that’s how the first crusade started. A letter from emperor Alexi to the pope, and the west was galvanised for war.
Great example, although I'm not sure it qualifies as a proxy war. Alexios I was aiming to hire a large number of Western knights to fight directly for him, and even required them to swear allegiance to him and directly return any cities they conquered to the Roman Empire. They ended up being much more independent than he had hoped, but the intent was to treat them more as mercenaries than as a nominally independent proxy force.
@@JackHankeAnd yeah, war tends to backfire in many ways.
@@philipdemaeyer1665 True. In defense of the Romans, though, they didn't start the war. The Turks had just invaded and conquered much of their heartland, which they had inhabited for the past millennium. Wanting their land back was pretty reasonable, IMO.
We're all waiting for that "Logistics" episode.
Only then will we be official armchair warriors.
The best thing I like about Simon is when eh does he and ad he actually makes it interesting and fun unlike some others who can just be basically reading off a script
Simon, this is by far the best of your channels. It's just absolutely full of context for understanding the world and extremely entertaining. You and the writers are doing a great job.
For a great historical example, see Charlie Wilson's War. Great movie, great acting, historically pretty accurate.
That's a masterpiece of a video. So much information and details!
American and soviet pilots were fighting each other in korea, direct dogfighting between soviet and American pilots and also in Vietnam
The jist of proxy warfare in a nutshell, you've got gold, silver, oil, rare earths, uranium, diamonds. I've got guns and ammo. Lets talk.
Loving the special forces and this art of war content. You're the best ever, simon!!!
Thanks for this series, it helps give context to all of your other videos and news stories! Keep it up!
Fantastic, interesting and intelligent breakdown of a aspect of warfare which has shaped so much of our history. Many thanks.
I think two type of proxy war should be taken into consideration:
1. The proxy is fronting the interests of the behind the scene partner.
2. The conflict is already ongoing or inevitable (debatable) and the supporting partner pick a side to support.
The issue usually is if the conflict was inevitable or if the support given started the conflict.
The Ukraine war is a proxy war in both phases, before and after russian troops got on the ground. The western support of Ukraine isn't different from the material, training and consulting given local fighters by the US against the soviet invesion of Afganistan.
Moraly we have few issue with the second type and quite some issues with the first type.
I think that the first phase of the war was of type 1 (Ukraine vs separatist) but I can understand why someone might disagree with me.
This doesn't include Crimea which is a separate issue.
Keep your friends rich and your enemies rich, then wait and see which is which...
The Wagner group attacking US special forces unit at the gas plant was classic. Approximately 500 Wagner with armor and artillery vs. 50 US and Syrian rebel fighters with guest appearances by American AirPower
It was only 50 Wagner and hundreds of Syrian allies , propaganda really gotta y'all fucked , same said for the lone survivor situation according to the average American and Hollywood it was 4 vs 100s but in reality it was less then 12
@@lizzyinthecut3617most tank kills on both sides have been from artillery.
@@kingtachalla6181lol that doesn’t make it any better for the Wagnerites.
I see you like to simp for loosing sides.
They charged into a minefield.
Bad call for the Ukrainian command for not looking before leaping.
Not an example Russian combat prowess.
Remove the minefield or the lack of tactical awareness of the Ukrainian command for missing the minefield in this avoidable incident and it would have gone very badly for Russia.
Ukraine got careless.
Russia got lucky.
@@satanicmicrochipv5656 buddy the entire frontline is a minefield and it’s easier to say they need to remove it than it is to actually remove a minefield.
Great video, but a quick correction for 10 mins in: in the Wars of the Roses the French king backed Lancaster, and Burgundy backed York, not the other way around.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory then you must fight!"
Simon's new channel "side conflicts"
When you lack the strength, manipulate from the shadows
Thats what Chancellor Palpetine did in star wars.... 😏
Me: playing warthunder. -> wants to listen to video while playing -> video has warthunder as sponsor: classic
Video on the battle of the boyne 1690 and how it effected Ireland going forward
one important feature is that if a nation is drawn into a war its geopolitical opponents will try to help the smaller nation to weaken its enemy. often "personal" wars become more complicated when an adversary sees an opportunity to weaken its rival. if the Vietnam war is a proxy war then so is Ukraine. the north Vietnamese were definitely fighting for independence and would have fought without aid. also the south Vietnamese received far more support than the eastern Ukraine separatists movements have, and south Vietnam was practically created by the US while eastern Ukraine has always had some desire for secession. something being a proxy war does not mean the smaller nation does not have real motivation or justification in fighting.
I’m looking forward to the logistics episode in this series. 😊
Cover the shortest war ever, Zanzibar and Britain, only lasted 38 minutes!
Rest in peace to those that passed away.
You're still here😊I'm so glad I don’t have to unsubscribe
I'll never forget the moment when we kicked down a door in Sadr Al YUsufiah and found a room full of white guys sitting around with a pile of AKs, a couple RPGs, and a mortar in the middle of the floor. I put a round right in front of the first guy that moved without hesitation. I guess they thought they were still dealing with the weekend warrior national guard unit we'd inherited the AO from. Instead they got a bunch of guys from the 101st with decked out M4s and fancy new camo. We knew right away who we were dealing with.
Explain please
Middle East in the Cold War comes to mind for me
There is one more unspoken proxy war.. that against us backed Pakistan and Russia supported India. That still plays out today with slightly different dynamics.. also the civil interest in niger etc backed by Wagner with ecowas being backed by "Western" forces
I'm not sure you can say that's still ongoing. The US is now much more invested in its relationship with India than it is with Pakistan, especially militarily, and India has been edging away from Russia as Russia's significance on the global stage decreases.
Ecowas is Western. Western africa.
@@JackHankeAnd of course, is support for Pak may not be ongoing right now considering China is supporting pak now, thereby changing the dynamics. Until very recently though, it was a real thing.
@@JackHankeAndIndia is not edging away from Russia at all. Keep telling yourself that.
@@hg.chetanChina has always supported Pakistan.
Pakistan was the one which airlifted Henry Kissinger to China in the first place.
Something the United States is a expert at.
LOVE THE SHOW
It's incredibly shameful that the Kurds were prevented from strengthening the safest place in Syria into their own independent country
They claim land in Turkey,iran and Syria
Be a mess if Kurds in Iraq became its own country
That could only be decided by the Syrian government, any outside actor cannot create a new state within another nations borders.
@@36minutesago7 you do realize that it's the Kurds living inside of Syria that have kicked ISIS out and established a safe area when civilians of all ethnicity's and religions can live their lives safe from attacks from everywhere except Turkish and Russian airforces right? The right of self rule is a natural human right and it's up to people living anywhere they are too determined how free they want to be. Obviously if they are subjects of a foreign power they might have to fight for that independence. But it's not a governments position to give something away that it doesn't possess the right to to begin with.
Haha the stock footage at 2:20 kills me! Flags his buddy's butt.
did you just call Gaddafi a mad dictator?
and ukraine isnt a proxy war? lol this channel is a joke…
Your channel to casual criminalist is particularly interesting when it comes to figuring out who you are Simon it's interesting seeing a channel about war from a coward
me leaving war thunder after notification that warographics uploaded. i was like yessss!. and then. "todays sponsor its WAR THUNDER" i was like.... damn, i cant even escape this game LOL
You should do a piece about the fall of the USSR because I hear how it "collapsed" far too often and that kind of overlooks the whole "take the head of state hostage and spark a full-blown popular uprising which brings down the established order from whence the hostage takers came" thing.
Proxy Wars can be one sided too. With one side using proxies in secret. 😁
Since 2011, more than 500,000 have died in the Syrian Civil War. In the Yemeni Civil War, over 1,000 died in April 2015.
13:53 The soviets were not involved in the Mau Mau uprising in Kenya at any point. Elsewise, good video!
Should do your own "the art of modern war" i think you could make it interesting.
The troops of the major powers in involved in the conflict may come into contact with each other in a combat action..In the Vietnam Conflict Mac-v-sog operators were in open fire Fights with Chinese and Soviet Operators in Laos and Cambodia
You should do an episode on the Niger conflict, it's likely to go hot any day now
Simon you are truely talented
I'd say Russia has become even more of a pariah state than Iran to most countries aside from the US.
We can learn about proxy wars by playing Call of Duty.
Ah, the vitamin wars... A1 vs B2. C was such an award bystander.
Join war thunder and engage in epic forum arguments, taken to the next level, with supporting documentation including technical documents and training manuals
I wonder if there'll be a video about War Thunder one day and people leaking confidential documents on their forums
im surprised you didnt mention the yom kippur war and its effects on both the us and ussr
Love the Art of War series
When Metal Gear Solid is played in living rooms, real-life Call of Duty is played on the stage of the world. When Call of Duty is played from the couch, the real world plays Metal Gear Solid 4. Kinda. All at the same time, all at once. Kinda.
Do we know if Sun-Tzu was also bald? Have we ever seen Simon and Sun in the same room together?
only 20 years without armed conflict since it creation for usa so the intro is kinda correct ...
Sure thing buddy
@@baneofbanes they didn't lie buddy
@@themouthofsauron6926 sure thing buddy
@@baneofbanes whatever helps you cope ma'am
@@themouthofsauron6926 sure thing buddy
Polite conversations and all- out war dance much closer together than you'd think, behind closed office doors.
I adore the Muhammad Ali comment lol. My teacher always went to effort to say Mehmet Ali or even Mehmet Ali Pasha, so we were never confused, cuz it totally came up in class lmao.
So many wars
So little time
07:33 Mur-Sen-Reece
I would hesitate to call the Finnish Civil War a true proxy conflict, since Germany was at the time fighting a very real war with Russia. It was Germany's victory in that war which sealed the fate of the Finnish Reds, because in the peace of Brest-Litovsk the Bolsheviks were prohibited from supporting them. Consequently they were overrun by a combined White Guard-German army.
I've been watching you long enough to know you Simon I'm getting to know your orders now
Simon, shame I stopped teaching almost 10 years ago. I'd have certainly used videos like this one as a support teaching resource. I used to be a bilingual sociology/cultural studies teacher in Brazil. Some of your videos would fall like a glove to cover sociology and English language curricula.
Congratulations. Top marks!!!
How would his videos cover sociology though?
@maquacr7014 As I said, they would be used as a support resource. You can't simply bombard sociological theory to 16 to 18 yo students. You start with something they can reach, like Cold War, expand the topic into proxi wars (that's when the video would be useful), and then, a bit of sociological theory would top it up. In this case, Samuel Huntington's Clash of Civilizations, which falls into the umbrella of Sociology (and not Political Science) when it comes to what is known as 6th form in the UK.
Not an easy task, and certainly to advanced students.
@@alexandrebacci6589 Interesting. Thanks for explaining.
America - *Hold my war crimes*
The Mujihadeen were not the same thing as the Taliban. I truly wish people would understand this. There was crossover yes, but there's not a straight fucking line from anti-soviet fighters to the Taliban
Excellent coverage of the majority of proxy wars but the myriad of conflicts in Central & South America had only a bare mention. An episode on those - and considering how many there have been and still are ongoing - would not be remiss.
That's not the Soviet flag at 6:11. The real flag didn't have a wreath.
The fictional flag was made in 2007 by Wikipedia user Oren neu dag. It was titled "An imaginary flag of the New USSR".
1:13: 🔍 Proxy warfare is a form of war in which major powers use third parties to fight on their behalf.
3:36: 🔥 Proxy wars are a strategic way for major powers to avoid direct conflict and bear the cost of war while pursuing their goals.
7:11: 💼 Proxy warfare is a short-term and conditional partnership where a major power supports a smaller nation or non-state actor to achieve their goals.
10:11: 🌍 Proxy wars have been a recurring theme throughout history, with foreign powers supporting different factions in conflicts around the world.
13:27: 🌍 The Cold War was characterized by proxy conflicts between the US and the Soviet Union, with both sides supporting opposing factions in civil wars and regional disputes around the world.
17:28: 🌍 The conflicts in Syria, Libya, and Yemen have become complex proxy wars involving multiple countries.
20:50: 🌍 The concept of proxy wars is becoming more relevant as regional powers grow more militarily fearsome, with debates on whether certain conflicts qualify as true proxy wars.
24:05: 🌍 Proxy warfare is likely to continue being used by major powers such as the US and Russia, as well as Iran, Saudi Arabia, UAE, and Israel in the Middle East.
Recap by Tammy AI
Another banger
Its amazing how The persian empire is awakening and take back its Empire with proxi wars,a hidden super power. Viva Persia .
I have an idea for a new War Thunder play mode:
Proxy War Thunder.
The rules are very complicated.
It takes a very long time to raise a kid and it's sad to see them thrown away so fruitlessly and needlessly...👣
Does this guy have a personal life. I thought I followed all his channels and then find a new one I don’t know about
10:55 You mean Cassius Clay... not that Cassius Clay.
at work, i always make proxy war between the people i hate, im really good at it!
20:50 You are politely ignoring a few proxy-incriminating facts:
1) PooXi and P00ti not only declared "unlimited friendship", but P00ti waited for PooXi's braggadocious Olympics to end before attempting to seize Kyiv.
2) Xina has designated itself as a "near-Arctic" nation.
3) Xina now refers to Vladivostok as Hǎishēnwǎi
4) Xina wants oil. Siberia has oil.
5) Xina is posturing as a "peace-keeper" with a laughably unacceptable proposal.
Cry more magg ot😂😂😂
@@methamphetamineaddict5217 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
My parents fled El Salvador in the early 80’s cause proxy war, dictatorship government was sponsored by the USA while communist rebels where sponsored by Soviet Union, Country was worn torn from late 70’s when protests stated to full civil war from 1980-1992
Kinds funny....the atomic bomb clips shows the house roasting before being blown apart......but the 1940s camera remains unharmed. Some good reinforcement.
Southern Africa
Imma be honest here, absolutely tired of the proxy wars let’s just go at it.
Nope, no mindless games Simon, lets play real games. cheers mate.
Thus, people should be very careful who they associate with. For even a fool if associated with "those" people may think himself as like "the men above all". We should be very careful whom to be around with.
Instead of the war in Ukraine being a war for independence for Ukraine, maybe it’s more accurate to say it’s a war for Ukraine to maintain their independence that they already had. A bit like the War of 1812 for the US.
I only heard "are you ready for hard pounding" 😂😂
the minute 1 assertion that proxy wars are actually good for peace may be Simon's worst take yet
you can't really talk about proxy wars on earth without mentioning the "divide and conquer" policy of Great Britain. More than half of the current conflicts on the planet have their source there.
I think I know what this video is about and I am disturbed.