Fear of GhostWriting (Feat. Lindsay Ellis) | It's Lit! | PBS Digital Studios
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You might being asking yourself-- Why do ghostwriters even exist? Isn’t that cheating? Isn’t literature supposed to be the result of one person’s agonizing need to create? Aren’t books supposed to be the blood, sweat, and tears of the tortured auteur? Well, the answer is more complicated than you think!
Interested in using this video as a teaching resource? Check it out on PBS LearningMedia: to.pbs.org/3fFk209
Written by Antonella Inserra and Angelina Meehan
Directed by Andrew Matthews
Animation by Dano Johnson
Produced by Amanda Fox
Executive in Charge (PBS): Adam Dylewski
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I guess im asking randomly but does anyone know of a trick to log back into an Instagram account..?
I stupidly lost my login password. I would love any assistance you can offer me.
@Moses Jonathan Instablaster ;)
@Frederick Maximiliano Thanks for your reply. I got to the site through google and im in the hacking process now.
Takes a while so I will get back to you later with my results.
@Frederick Maximiliano It worked and I finally got access to my account again. I am so happy:D
Thank you so much you really help me out!
@Moses Jonathan you are welcome =)
More Lindsay Ellis, please
I guess PBS realized Lindsay has more screen presence in person rather than just black and white stills of her disembodied head.
Damn right
She so awesome
@@Shen986 I think Necroglobule is an asshole, but he is referring to her film school thesis, a documentary short on her own abortion, titled The A Word. Hardly exploitative to share your own experience. From what I understand (I've not been able to find a copy), it includes interviews with several women who have had abortions, some who consider it the decision that saved their life, and others who regret it. Again, how is it exploitative to have people share their stories?
I love Lindsay's work and greatly respect her as a person. So, Necroglobule, I prefer hosts who are talented, witty, honest, and unapologetic about themselves.
Merry Xmas.
@@ethansloan th-cam.com/video/qhV5SmNao74/w-d-xo.html , th-cam.com/video/HUYqC-fYcUE/w-d-xo.html Enjoy your witty, honest, unapologetic and talented host, lol
@@dacealksne I honestly don't know whether you were being sincere or ironic but thanks for sharing those links. That was actually a good piece. Well made, honest, and unbiased.
I still believe it's only right to give credit to those who contributed. Movies have credits, why can't books? I think the way James Patterson does it is in the right direction.
Have you been in a Hotel?
Do we need to give credit to the architect?
To the firm?
To the owner?
To the hundreds of men who gave blood, sweat and tears and actually did the work?
I think is ok if you agree with but I dislike the fact of having to sign a contract that forbids you to disclose your collaboration. I like to be able to say "Hey son, I worked here, helped build that building. Wrote this, did that" but no can say just to protect the "author" image or ego.
Just mho. Signed by 'an architect and hobby writer.'
@@0Raik A hotel isn't art
I'm not sure how accurate film writing credits actually are. Films often go through hundreds of drafts and while the credited writer who did the most work often large sections from other non credited writers are often left in the final screen play.
@Sardonicus Ghost writers are workers in the entertainment industry, if they get payed well they do what they are supposed to do. If you want to industrialize the creative process in order to have a constant flow of books you need to hire people who are good at writing and are able to write in every condition regardless of the topic they are writing about. They may not be "Authors", but it's a job like any other. Da Vinci painted the Monna Lisa, but there are many people who can paint it exactly like him, they are very good painters, but they are not Da Vinci. The brand of the writer is a thing, the craft is something else that anyone can learn
In some situations the writer do not wish to get credit. Often because there writing something controversial. In the past it was also a way to avoid the prejudiced of the time as female writers often where not taken serious. Though I hope most of that has dispersed in today's age. Sometimes is simply done because they do not want to be associated with a work that they felt did not live up to there standards (but may have to be realised due to contractual obligations or that the rest of the team behind the work do like it or simply wish to get paid.)
But I do in general think that if someone did put in effort in to a work and they want credit then the default should get it for the part they did. And that we should be more open for collaborations when it comes to authorship of books. I generally see this being the case actually when it comes to RPG books. Sure they may have a main author/game designer, but they tend to have a team of people helping in different ways from play testing the rules to making the art.
I think the video shows the real issue really well. That we have this vision of the lone author so we do not like the idea of books being a collaboration even if most books are in some degree. (After all is pretty common to have a editor that helps out making the book ready for print.) And because we think that the book lacks authenticity if it does not have this lone author we get in to a situation where is advantages to hide who is really behind the written words of a book.
This really feels like it was supposed to come out in October.
They posted this on FB back at the end of October.
Well, there you go.
It was on TH-cam for like three seconds at Halloween. It was pulled by the time I clicked on the notification. Have no idea why.
@@jsharp1701 : Your senses are as sharp as your name! Thanks for the info.
There’s nothing like a Halloween in December
"Yeah, this question is for the whole panel: What's your favourite type of ghost to write for?"
As a ghostwriter, I can say from my end it is both to further develop my craft and money. Because shock and awe, writing your own book not only takes time but you aint paid until you get a publisher. I need to eat.
One question I didn't find answered: if you sign away the right to even say you wrote something, how can you build up a resume and writing history?
May I ask something that has been bugging after I saw this video.
Is translating ones work (say Polish to English) can be considered ghostwriting ? Can someone like David A. French (who as been translating Andrzej Sapkowski's Witcher novel) can or should be considered a ghostwriter ?
@@bloodangel13 No, translation is not ghostwriting because the translator is credited and it's understood that they have a role in choosing words to communicate ideas with careful nuance. They can collaborate with the authors sometimes.
@Fuck Off Thanks for clarifying that.
@@bloodangel13 According to Lindsay's definition, you could be classified a ghostwriter I think. But in the stricter sense you're not a ghostwriter, especially if you've been credited.
Nothing wrong with collaborative writing, but when appropriate credit is not given, it *is* deceptive. As a consumer of fiction, I would like to know who participated in its creation, and in what way. Imagine making a film and only crediting the director, and not the dozens of people who contributed, from the actors to the costume designer to the make-up artist to... etc. No one thinks to do this, even if all those people agreed to not be credited, so why do people do it with books?
Interesting thing about bringing up movies as an example is that there actually are still people who go uncredited in movies (although, granted, it was more common-place in the past)
I agree. I feel like as a society we can move on from the idea that books can only be written by one person. Why not just be upfront from the beginning? Picking up a book that has five writers as opposed to one on the cover isn't gonna make me put it down. You could even assume that the book might be better written because it was a collaborative project.
Many, many screenwriters make major contributions to produced movie and TV screenplays without being credited. Even big names like Carrie Fisher.
@@lowrider276 Also, you could apply the same logic to groups of writers, for example, CLAMP is a group of female manga artists who created a number of works wich were made to franchises, and are very famous in their genre.
The only reason the crew gets credit at the end of the movie is because they have union representation. And there's still a ton of people who contributed hugely to the project who don't get credited at all. Even less so in television where a company will get credited, but not the actual people who worked on it and may well have left the company by the time the project is released.
Lindsay Ellis is a national treasure
This subject is just a little too spooooooky for December...
Not if you grew up on The Nightmare Before Christmas. Then Christmas is as good a time as any for some spookiness.
Glad I'm not the only one who was thinking this should have been a Halloween episode.
@@Sephajinami Aww man...I totally grew up on Nightmare Before Christmas. But I see no Jack or Sally in this video. 😆 I guess spooky is always appropriate.
People start decorating for Halloween in January earlier and earlier every year.
Not according to the classic Christmas carol "It's the Most Wonderful Time of the Year":
There'll be parties for hosting
Marshmallows for toasting
And caroling out in the snow
There'll be scary ghost stories
And tales of the glories of
Christmases long, long ago
I used to work in retail, so I've actually been brainwashed to enjoy Christmas songs and the overall holiday aesthetic. I wish a merry Wall Street Christmas to you!
One could make the argument that if the writing and publishing industry were more transparent and demystified, it would be a great help to art. Instead of focusing on a single author "brand," we could appreciate, and support, a more diverse set of authors with more unique voices. Even if those authors aren't as "prolific." This video, (while I feel is making a certain amount of rationalizations) helps with that, so that's good.
Absolutely. One issue is that capitalism as it stands is obsessed with brand, which is just a myth that helps you sell stuff.
A more transparent writing and publishing world could demystify the brand of a given author, give more credits to co authors, writing assistants etc... and take away the stigma on both sides, for people who require help for their writing, as well as for the ghostwriters.
In the end, ghostwriting can be good training, writing for someone else can take away a good deal of the pressure and writers block that emerge from trying to be an "AUTHOR", a bit like fanfiction. Those who want to could go on to create their own stuff, and maybe in time hire assistants to teach them the craft. The further away we go from a lonely struggling artist model for creation, the better off we are.
Sorry but that's bad for sales and business. If you can't build a cult of personality around the author they won't become big enough to build a following.
♞ Go Fuck Yourself ♞ I said it would be a great help to “art.”
Not Animorphs! Next you're going to tell me Goosebumps wasn't all painstakingly crafted by R. L. Stine!
According to this Stack Exchange R.L. Stine has done the majority of the writing of his own books, but he has said he's used other writers to "help write outlines": scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/107333/which-goosebumps-books-were-ghostwritten
The later books were mostly Ghostwritten. They are credited on the dedication page.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
About half the Animorphs books, a lot of the ones in the middle, with K.A. Applegate & husband Michael Grant providing outlines.
The first 20? or so books, the last few books, the Chronicles and Megamorphs weren't ghostwritten.
They used ghosts cos Katherine & Michael had had kids and couldn't keep up with a schedule of a book a month.
And they started out as ghosts themselves, so circle of life I guess.
@@alexwright4930 All jokes aside, even as a kid there was a point where I can remember noticing a subtle shift in the style and voice of the books, and it always left me wondering what changed. I hardly blame them, though, and looking back it's insane that she kept it up as long as she did. I hope she's doing well now wherever she is.
Personal experience as a failed writer: if you don't have a name then you very likely won't get paid very much; however, if you have someone willing to pay you for pretending to be somebody else, chances are you'll get a bigger paycheck then you would by yourself. I wrote for Yahoo and was even awarded one of the top 1,000 writers of 2012, but my paycheck reflected that of a welfare case. I was new to writing at the time and too prideful to ghostwrite anyting; though in hindsight, I probably would have been paid better and potentially had steady work.
That's pretty cynical - everybody has a name.
@@jeffboon9125 there is also the issue of my nephew committing suicide so I quit college for journalism to go aide my brother. I guess it also lost its challenge when I managed to interview Neil deGrasse Tyson in my first semester
@@jeffboon9125 there's a few reasons I lost my motivation and there's quite a few reasons I regret losing my motivation as well
Lost things can be found again.
I have seen (and enjoyed) many of Lindsay's videos (I ATE THE WHOLE PLATE! THE WHOLE PLATE!), and this one about ghostwriting is the first video of hers I have seen that she wasn't credited as a writer or co-writer. (One of the co-writers writers of this video, Angelina M., is often her frequent collaborator though). I can't tell if Lindsay not being credited as a writer on this is intentionally meta or unintentionally meta. In any case, it adds a layer to re-watching the video.
windmills_waterfalls And the other is Nella Inserra herself
so happy to see Ellis producing for PBS now, with channel awesome scumbags in the dirt
tugger I hope they see the massive view counts on the vids on her channel and weep :)
I'm ignorant... what happened?
I doubt they care as much as you do, and they seem to be doing fine.
I found the snowflake, guys!
"Isn't literature supposed to be the result of one person's agonizing need to create? Aren't books supposed to be the blood, sweat, and tears of the tortured AUTEUR?"....well, when you say it like that, it does sound a bit pretentious, doesn't it?
But seriously, I find it fascinating that we can accept films, music, or plays as collaborative works, but not writing (or art, quite often). In the case of films, music, etc., credit is often given one person or a few people, often the 'celebrity' or director- and should we also pay attention to and appreciate the others working behind the scenes? Of course! But that doesn't somehow detract from the validity of the work and its impact and connection with audiences. I feel like writing has been painted as so personal, so intimate, we've forced it to be a solitary act. So ghostwriting has never really bothered me- the only situation I can think of off the top of my head that might make me uncomfortable would be a situation where the author presented events from the *ghostwriter's* life as their own- that, to me, would at least be disingenuous. But if it's your life, your story, your characters, and someone else's writing? Then I don't see how it's different than other collaborative works.
Thank you, PBS, for more Lindsay Ellis! She's always very appreciated!
Great comment, but line breaks are your friend!
If the ghostwriter's name with a clearly presented list of their contributions isn't present in the book then it's plagiarism even if the ghostwriter has been well rewarded for their work. At the end of the day, it's about acknowledging that you didn't do everything yourself, it's about giving credit where credit is due. Films and music are already seen as collaborative artistic endeavours, each song for example has at least five-six people behind it, and we are fine with that fact, so this shouldn't be different when it comes to written works.
@@NaumRusomarov Agreed! I agree with both OP and you, wow this seldom happens.
@@NaumRusomarov Surveys show people only read 20% to 40% of each book they purchase. So you could make the argument that it isn't the skill of the writing that's getting them to buy.
Looks like the only way George R.R.R.R.R.R.R.R.R.R.R.R.R.R.R.R.R.R.R.R.R.... (gasp!)... R. Martin will ever finish his Song series is if ghostwriters are employed.
If the words I am reading are credited to someone who did not write said words, the name that is actually credited is guilty of lying to me. It doesn't matter if the industry of mainstream literature has created a need for such practices, it is still a lie. A lie told to me as the consumer in order to trick me into buying a specific product, thinking I am getting one thing, but in reality I'm buying something completely different. It is false advertisement, no matter how people in the industry try to twist it around.
"It GHOST to show..." You did that on purpose, didn't you?
She, and the writers of the show of course, are such nerds, I love it.
No need to disre-SPECTRE.
Lindsay Ellis is so great and professional. She really made a comeback with a bang.
The real shocker is that so many of well-known authors, despite not using a ghostwriter, still owe a good deal of their literary success to their editors. Editors need more appreciation.
Lindsey Ellis is the coolest person PBS could get. That's why her show is called "It's lit"
the clicking sound of every letter appearing on screen soothes me.
Maybe part of why people expect books to be written by a single author in solitude is because that is how it's experianced by the reader. Music can and often is enjoyed be friends listening to a song together, and when you go to the movies you are watching a film with other people even if you go alone. But when you read it is just you and the book. Even if you are sitting at a table with other people reading the same book it's still a solitary activity. So the idea that more than one person is on the otherside can imbalance the relationship. Books are by their nature more intimate, and intimacy is harder in a crowd.
I love this explanation!
my brain melted. even if you are watching a movie or listening to music with friends, it's still a solitary activity. movies and music can also be enjoyed in solitude and reading a book can also be a group activity like parents reading it to their childern etc. just like reading a books around people is a solitary activity, watching a movie around people is the same thing. in both the cases you have the ability to focus on the art and so intimacy is never lost.
"So the idea that more than one person is on the otherside can imbalance the relationship." what you described here is bias not reason. you can read a book and enjoy it without knowing anything about the author and every book has some sort of collaboration but our bias make us feel weird even tho it's illogical.
I'm really surprised that Virginia Andrews and Tom Clancy were not mentioned, for their cases are famous and very interesting.
V. C. Andrews wrote seven books, started another and maybe planned the beggining of one, but when she died of breast cancer, her family hired Andrew Neiderman to keep writing under her name, so her planned stories could be completed. And now she has twenty six sagas attributed to her (when she just started two). Most of the fans still like the stories and don't mind the ghost writting, but a few years ago there were some movie adaptations for the Dollanganger saga and My sweet Audrina, and a prequel series for the former and a sequel for the latter were released. Most of the fans and critics expressed that it was disrespectful to her name to introduce new chapters to the stories that she did manage to write in life.
And Tom Clancy is more of a cautionary tale that people seem to ignore by tweeting mean things to Patrick Rothfuss and George R. R. Martin: Clancy's novels were so popular that the demand exceded his time to write them, so ghost writers were hired, and wrote novels and movie scripts while he worked on other stories too. So, now you know: people can be irrational about their idols.
And a bonus story is the non existent Penelope Ashe. Twenty four journalist wrote an intentionaly bad and nonesensical novel about sex to prove the point that the USA's standards were so low that any book with lots of intercourse could be a best seller. Every single chapter was written by a different person without talking to the rest of the authors, and some of them had to be edited because they were too well written. When it was revealed a year after its publication, sales just piked!
I too was surprised V.C. Andrews wasn't mentioned, since her books weren't originally intended to be ghostwritten, but rather, became that out of necessity.
I don't view collectives of writers sharing a pseudonym as being in the same category as an uncredited writer's work being passed off as some other real person's work.
(This comment was ghostwritten by my unpaid intern.)
Awesome video, I am glad Lindsey is becoming a big part of the channel now.
I understand the need for ghostwriters but I think it would be better if they were credited and society as a whole accepted that books are a collaborative effort like other media. It makes me kinda sad that a lot of people could read a GWs work but the GW would never get recognition for it or help them advance their career. Of course if they don't want to be credited or publish their work under a pseudonym then that should be an option as well. I just feel like ghostwriters or collab writers should have more options to have their name on a piece of work similar to how people get credited in a tv show or film and for the idea of a "multi-authored" book to be more mainstream.
It's a big leap to say the solitary author is a BS expectation therefore it's ok not to credit ghostwriters. Yeah, let's accept that most great things don't have one true auteur. But let's also credit those who made it!
I mean, I do see how collaborative works being credited to a single person (and erasing the work of others who participated) might be deceptive. That'd be like if Henry Selick directed and spearheaded one of the most famous holiday movies of all time, and all his work was credited to Tim Burton cause Tim's name was on the cover :\
Usarnavon To be fair Henry was properly credited but nobody ever reads it
@@Ryda124 Honest Trailer read it! And now a couple of viewers vaguely remember this fact.
You just ruined my entire childhood with the Animorphs reveal. Thank God you didn't desecrate Goosebumps. I SAID GOOD-DAY, MADAM!
Animorphs was the first time I ever heard about ghostwriting (besides the punnily named PBS show Ghostwriter). I was shocked too, but when you think about it, writing and publishing 64 150-250+ page books over the course of 5 years (that's almost 13 books a year!) is an endeavor that almost requires some additional assistance.
Now that I think about it, maybe George R.R. Martin should consider a ghostwriter...
This might mitigate the ruining: animorphs.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Ghostwriters
Only some of them were ghostwritten, and even in those cases, Applegate did final editing. Really, it's not surprising at all; a hundred-some page story every month isn't conducive to actual good fiction. Rest assured she was using the time to work on the better entries.
Also, if I'm remembering correctly, she was GOING to write them all herself, but then one of her kids got really sick about a third of the way through the series' run and that's when she had to delegate.
Think about 20 books in the middle of the series was ghostwritten, and Applegate came back to finish up the series. I remember thinking there was a noticeable drop off in quality when I read them as a kid, and surely enough, that was the moment she started using ghost writers.
@@CowboyxWayne The andalite toilet book was all her, but it's still not as batshit as the buffahuman book or the one where some vegan decided to send the kids to the nightmare slaughterhouse and was asked politely to never write for the series again.
I just wish that, when a writer creates something I deeply enjoy, I’m able to give correct appreciation.
I actually didn't give a book a go when my nan bought it for me, it admitted was the opposite of my taste (a soppy teen drama about people who hate their parents), but also because it was 'written' by Cara Delevingne. I'd much rather read fiction written by an aspiring author than with a celebrity name slapped on, especially when the buyer thinks they wrote it.
The interesting thing about Ann M.Martin and BSC is she has a very definitive tone that is not kept in all of the books, particularly the later ones. As a kid, I chalked this up to her writing a serial series, and it was just getting crappier as she went on, the same way a tv show usually goes downhill the longer it's on.
I noticed that you yourself didn't write this episode. Is it possible that Lindsay Ellis...has a GHOSTWRITER?! No, wait, you credit your writers in the end credits, so we know exactly who they are, never mind.
You think Nella writes everything? Or maybe Maven of the Eventide given this spooky episode? ;)
Oh it actually says it's written by Nella, hadn't looked.
Alex Wright At least half the channel is co-written by Nella.
I'd imagine that one of the best ways to dispel to myth of the solitary author would be to credit ghost writers
we need more Lindsay Ellis video essays!!
*Warriors peeks around the corner* 👀
I never used to think about this until someone online complained that it was unfair for reality tv star Lauren Conrad to "write" a book, get all the attention and money, and legit authors spend their whole lives unable to get their books published unless they ghost write for all the Lauren Conrads of the world. The community I was in came in fast, but politely explained that ghost writing is usually a good way for authors to get into the publishing industry and make money since making a career as a writer is really hard. Also, celebrities like Lauren Conrad keep the book publishing industry alive since their fans will buy the books, and that kind of money gives publishing companies the freedom to take a risk on signing an unknown author.
Yeah, capitalism gets too much of a bad name.
Thank you PBS for giving us high-budgeted Lindsey videos. 😁
Something that I'm surprised didn't come up is that recognition is not an end in itself to many creative people, but a means to perpetuate their craft. A lot of people genuinely don't have an interest in notoriety or the performance involved in being a public figure, or they have some vulnerable element that makes them uncomfortable in that harsh lense. Attribution is really important of course, but if you have alternatives... Some people prefer not to be there. We don't all want to be the center of attention always, and especially nowadays in this land of obsession with auteur and personality branding, it's work. I guess in the end, just like how some people can have a story but not be writers, a lot of writers aren't marketers.
Side note- loving the dramatis personae of your actual presence, though your cutout art version is totes 'dorbs!
This comment was pretentious and incredibly dated all in the space of a few words
This caused my brain to remember the movie "Anonymous".
*tongue click. *sigh...
This needed more on how "normal" authorship is not the sole, personal creation of a single author: authors get feedback when writing, often as part of a formal or semi-formal writer's group; they write in genres defined by tropes and conventions not of their own making; and so much of what goes into a book--especially fiction--is the outcome of a culture at a particular place and time that one or more people are just positioned to give a voice to.
I kind of feel like that a stable of ghostwriters that are working on one continuous project are much like scriptwriters for a show underneath a show creator.
Except script witers are credited.
James Patterson will continue writing books long after he dies, mark my words
I'm do a type ghost writing for doctors. I've also ghosted an autobiographical novela that had a short-term publication. Let me tell you, the skills you pick up are absolutely indispensable. You learn so much about interviewing and reading people.
This series keeps getting better and better!
This is not unlike my many forays as a painter's assistant. Hella jaws drop when I tell the story of making other people's paintings.
Heh. The comic book brain in me is reacting to "Ghost Writer" and thinking instead of the Spirit of Vengence (aka Ghost Rider). :-)
Wooh wooh! Always love an update from it’s lit. I think it help Lindsay talk about books in a way that isn’t about movies or tv directly.
I once got roped into a ghost writing for my job, I wasn’t aware it was expected of me until shortly after I started the job... it’s honestly a terrifying job if you’re not prepared for it.
Started this hoping for an Animorphs reference, was not disappointed! Surprised to hear about the Hardy Boys though my grandparents collected those and were my go-to reading when staying there
I was getting ready to mention Animorphs in the comments, especially after a College Humor Animorphs & Harry Potter quiz show teaser the other day.
I watched Bojack Horseman, so I actually like ghostwriters.
My father once handed me something to edit for grammar and flow. Two months later I'm in a doctor's waiting room reading a magazine. The article seems familiar, so I check the date. It's brand new. I keep reading and come across a specific phrase Dad and I had gone back and forth on. As an officer, Dad apparently had done this type of work often for senior officers who didn't have the time (or literacy) to fulfill a press request.
I'm an artist and I applied this to my field, I think that ghostwriting can be seen as an artist making a comission, the person who hires the artist gives the idea of the piece, and sometimes if they stipulate all the rights of the illustration or whatever it's theirs, you don't usually see big companies giving credit to the person who made their logos or mascots, I think that if you view it in this perspective it seems really normal and logical
👌I like your way of thinking!
Loving this series! More Lindsay please!
I could quite literally listen to her talk about Animorphs for hours and be riveted. That series was my life as a kid.
Lmao Lindsay being all spooky and dramatic reminds me of Elisa/Maven of the Eventide
Exactly what I was thinking.
This is one of the reasons why this modern times are so intriguing. This has never been a problem in previous centuries and ages. In ancient times, few could afford the luxury to learn letters. To have a surplus of supply and unending demand for literature that creates this situation is intriguing.
Lindsay you did a great job with this! Perfect delivery.
The sound effects in these videos are so so satisfying...
Dear Lindsay, For some of us, ghost-writing is a living. Ciao! Please, continue publishing excellent work.
My favorite ghost-writer is Diane Nguyen.
Then you get the rare exception with Trump who had like no real input in anything but takes all the credit while his ghost writer says no you were an idiot, I wrote it, and I regret it.
Well, for the illusion of ghostwriting to work, the credited author would need some basic degree of literacy. As well as keeping the story straight with regards to biographical details. IIRC the "controversy" arose because Trump was contradicting things in "his own" book that he so loved to brag about.
I wouldn't even say it's an exception. When the author is a so called "celebrity", thaťs what we should expect.
I laughed super hard when Netanyahu trolled him and he didnt get it.
Also ghostwriting is a raw deal for sure.
Found the woke liberal
That finnishing sentence was top. Excellent work Lindsay!
I am loving watching this series.
This is fascinating as someone who is interested in ghostwriting, and has actually done a little!! Fantastic!
i love this series so much, please keep it going! yay lindsay!
Always nice to see a new Lindsay video (and I guess because she's done two of these series lately I know why she hasn't been able to do much on her own channel).
I'm surprised you didn't mention editors. Even non-ghostwritten books can be heavily modified by people other than the credited author, correct?
Yeah but the authors still have to give their approval no one can just change their book without them being actively part of it. So it's less Ghostwriting and more "super beta reader".
Adama Sanogo I didn't mean to imply it was without the author's permission, just that book creation is more of a team activity than many people may realize, even when ghostwriting isn't involved.
In another video, hopefully?
@@somethingsomething922 You are my hero. I am sorry for your suffering.
* pats head *
@@somethingsomething922 Not all heroes wear capes, but all have to deal with dumb people's bullshits you have my deepest sympathy!!
Beautifully produced and scripted video, thank you! :D
I agree with those who say we should give everyone credit, like we do with movies, TV shows, computer games, or other forms of collaborative art. If multiple people worked on it, give multiple people credit like we do in other media.
I strongly disagree that we're uncomfortable with ghost writers because we're too obsessed with author celebrity. I think it just feels inherently unfair: for example, this would never fly in visual arts. If someone commissions someone to draw for them, even if they provide an ellaborate original description, the artist is still credited as the creator of the piece. It'd be much healthier and transparent if there was a convention of crediting both the writer and the initial idea creator. Like they do with comic books, you credit writers AND the illustrator, not just the illustrator.
I feel like you've hit your stride with this series.
As someone who was made to analyse a lot of literature in school in reference to the author's personal life, it would be so interesting to me to see how much our understanding of writing is still instinctively connected to the idea of the author. Imagine, after decades of making comparisons between Lord of the Rings and Tolkien's experiences with WWI, finding out that he had a ghostwriter heavily involved in the themes and story - wouldn't it completely turn many interpretations upside down? I'm not against ghostwriting per se (but as a writer myself I have my own hangups about it) but I would really love to explore how the proliferation of ghostwriting affects literary theory and analysis!
I honestly thought with this being for PBS that a 90s "Ghostwriter" reference would be slid in!
K. A. Applegate and her husband Michael Grant started as ghostwriters of '90s teen books before starting Animorphs, and ultimately using ghostwriters to write about half the books, cos especially after having kids they couldn't keep up with a book a month schedule.
So kind of went full circle.
im always so happy to see lindsay here ❤
Wow great halloween vid in december, but honestly love your videos
How is that Lovecraft writing for Houdini hasn't been fictionalized into either a drama or horror series? I feel like that'd be a goldmine for outlandish historical fiction!
Loving the spooky Halloween aesthetic in December XD
It's not too awkward according to the classic Christmas carol "It's the Most Wonderful Time of the Year":
There'll be parties for hosting
Marshmallows for toasting
And caroling out in the snow
There'll be scary ghost stories
And tales of the glories of
Christmases long, long ago
I used to work in retail, so I've actually been brainwashed to enjoy Christmas songs and the overall holiday aesthetic. I wish a merry Wall Street Christmas to you!
P.S.: A different commenter posted that this video was posted in October, but then erroneously pulled for some reason.
I see it is fitting that if you read the credits you find that Lindsey Ellis did not write this video.
I actually think the last line of this video inadvertently showed why people dislike ghostwriting. People do not like the idea of more importance being attached to a name than the work.
Loving the new video :) also I want that top!
To explain the spooky theme. This episode was released on Halloween on Facebook, their youtube channel is being slow.
this is such a lowkey savage video and i'm so here for it 😂
😍 Always a good day that starts with Lindsay Ellis video essay.
I can't speak for people who are comfortable working in such a way, but personally I couldn't do so. I've actually turned down a writing project as I wouldn't have received credit. While the many illusions surrounding authors might be overdone, I believe those who do the work must be credited.
Wait wait wait... Are you saying the members of Motley Crue didn't write their own book? I'm flabbergasted!
I refuse to believe that Stephen King uses ghostwriters. What? He just happens to find a whole team that also don't know how to end a story?
Lindsay is doing such a great job delivering these visual jokes! great video, interesting way to look at ghostwriting
You could do a video about the pros and cons of fanfiction. And about graphic novels and the relationshiop between comics and literature
I've made my living as a technical writer for more than 20 years...it's like ghostwriting, but non-fiction instead of fiction. I mostly work as a contractor...in my contract, it specifically says that my work belongs to my client, not to me. This is what "work for hire" means. Sometimes, if the work I do is publicly available, I can use it as a writing sample. If it's internal to a company though, I can't do that. Honestly, if I could move from technical writing to ghostwriting it would be pretty sweet. I wouldn't mind not getting credit--the money is pretty good and writing fiction would be more fun than non-fiction.
I see this episode has been ghostwritten by... (dramatic pause) DARK NELLA! (thunder)
Ghost writing can definitely be very complex.. like Con's is the writer gets no credit, fame or sweet sweet royality checks.. but pro's you never get stuck with labels, you can write a variety of books without making up a bunch of pennames, and it's like steady work in a way with high serialized stuff.. like those nancy drews, grahic novels, and celebrity autobiographies.. but the one thing that gets to me is when somebody pretends they wrote a book but never really did.. like when celebrities try to write novels but didn't even write a sentence 😤💔 especially if it's like so obvious..
Depending on the form of ghostwriting, it can quite clearly be a form of exploitation. Somebody's talent, time, effort and maybe even resources are taken advantage of at the expense of, not only their due acknowledgement, but even their propper share. It's famous people exhausting other people's input for their own gain.
if i can use my own career as an analogy, it's like the difference between being a fashion designer, and a tailor. a designer creates their own original designs that they show to the world through fashion shows and modelling, while someone would go to a tailor or seamstress with their own idea or design, and ask them to have it made for them. both careers are require the same kind of skill sets and are both equally rewarding, but the designers are focused more on the individual and therefore garner much more name recognition, even if they themselves employ tailors and seamstress' to actually produce the designs they make. they become famous for their ideas, while someone else worked to execute that idea for them.
I love this show so much
I really like what you're doing with this brand. It's almost like a separate identity from your channel
And most people forget that books almost always have some level of collaboration involved - editors have a lot to do with the process of making a book readable and they are rarely credited on the cover, though they often end up in the acknowledgements section.
While Lindsay is great for all of these It’s Lit videos, this subject is the most perfect to feature her as she herself has served as a ghost writer and hired other ghost writers for her work.
My favorite book is "Awoken" authored by Serra Elinsen. Please don't tell me its Ghostwritten!