The main thing about those is that you have to atomize the fuel correctly (with a valve) when it's burned. The atomizer aerosolizes the fuel with steam to optimize burning efficiency in the firebox. If you turn the atomizer up to much, it will put the fire out (too much steam, not enough fuel). If you turn it down too low, it will burn thick black smoke (too much fuel, not enough steam). As you adjust fuel flow you will need to adjust the atomizer. It will produce some soot regardless, but not on the level coal does. It's easier than coal firing because you don't have to think about the fire very far ahead like you do with coal, but also gives a challenge since you have to work the atomizer with the fuel control and blower.
Great video. Thank you for your time in doing this. Very informative about the fuels you guys run. Keep up the good work on videos! I hope someday I can come to your location and ride the rails! One day??
Coal is certainly authentic. Propane, however, gives the engineer/operator more control to enjoy the ride. Oil is fine but you have to keep pumping it to the jets in the firebox. Propane is clean and neat. There's enough "dirt" with the grease and water that I don't need coal.
Chances are I'm going to end up with an oil fired USRA Heavy Mikado, it will probably last me a while but I have no idea how long yet because I'm only an 11 year old live stem nerd. lol
I live in Limey-land, don't think I have ever seen a propane fired loco, it's dirty lovely coal all the way! Mind you, it is readily available. Even the creme de la creme Welsh steam coal is affordable. Interesting video, thanks.
I learned to fire on bituminus (soft) coal in a traction engine and steam powered carousel. I have run a 17 ton 4-4-0 on propane. I was unable to try wood on the 4-4-0. Wood and coal have a nasty habit of setting fires from sparks, ashes, and cinders is why logging railroads switched to oil for fuel. Oil is safer and easier to use than wood or coal. If handled properly propane is safe.
Hi, very interesting comments about fuels.Since i´m starting to use propane in an small 5"gauge locomotive, I´d like to ask you if do you think that if the flames go directly over the fire tubes these tubes could be damaged. I´ve put a little deflector between the lighters and the tubes just in case but, what do you think about?. On the other hand, the engine firing propane steams really well. Kind regards form the sunny Spain, Carlos
I'm thinking of using WVO as a fuel source for when I build my engine. Will that work well for engines of this scale for an oil burner? Provided I will have to make a WVO filter system. I plan on building a Southern Pacific MT class 4-8-2
so if you had a coal loco, does it take much to convert it over to propane? great video. this would be a great hobby ( size ) to get in to, but don't think there are any around southwestern Ontario thanks for sharing.
The one thing at least in New Zealand is that there used to be coal that burned cleaned, it closed down. So we have to mix it 50,50 with bad coal and clean coal.
I would like to see a video of some wood fired locomotives . The old 440 examples from the 1860s would be interesting . Coal fired locomotives have a very significant role in history but some of the earlier trains brought us to coal . :)
chris summers I burn wood in my Fitchburg Northern on a grate similar to a pellet stove. It makes a hot fire using dry fir. I haven't figured out how to coal fire my engine successfully.
I do have to disagree about needing air to get an oil burner going. I use propane to raise steam and then switch over to oil. One thing about starting on propane, if you wait too long it lights with a bang. The good thing about that, if you have an all steel boiler, it cleans your flues. :-)
Wonder if you could do propane with a touch of coal for effect. So the propane is the primary heat source and the coal to add just a bit of the smell/feel.
DeepPastry when an engine is set up for propane the firebox has a burner setup in the firebox instead of grates. There would be nothing to hold the coal.
Don't forget what the Grand Canyon Railroad uses; recycled vegetable oil... It has the same advantages and disadvantages of fuel oil, AND it makes the tree huggers happy... Lastly; you guessed it - your loco smells like french fries! ... LOL!
@@joshuahill6153 You gotta be careful with smokeless coal. Anthracite does not burn very well in a small locomotive. It tends to clinker up very easily and very difficult to get going again if there's a dead spot. Most steam engines that used anthracite had massive fireboxes where you could get really good airflow.
Use diesel fuel, it’s very energy dense, you can burn engine oil once it’s up to temp, & it’s easy to get if you have a few shops near by. I sometimes throw some WMO in my diesel on my 7.3idi/one of the last mechanical diesels, & when I was using engine oil & diesel. I noticed it used significantly less fuel on oil mix than it did on diesel. On my mix I mixed 10-25% gas to oil then filtered it to 2 microns & that’s it. It’s a tad bit thicker than diesel, it runs quieter, it has a tad bit more power, & it uses less fuel/more BTUs & cetane.
No...they are entirely different setups in the fire box and have different boiler tube setups to run efficiently. A coal engine has grates in the fire box for the fire to sit on and larger diameter boiler tubes to help the engine draft better...an engine setup for propane has a burner manifold in the fire box, no grates. The boiler tubes are also smaller in diameter to help the engine draft... turbulator strips can be put in larger diameter boiler tubes on a propane engine...but propane will be much more expensive if it’s run on an engine that wasn’t built with it in mind. You also lose power with a propane setup...if, for example, you had a northern running on propane...you’d suck the fire right off the burners if you open the throttle up too far. Which is why our 844 will be coal fired.
Firing with coal is brilliant, but after running with soft coal for many a year I have grown very tired of the smut and filth that collects in my smokebox, flues and tube sheets. Furthermore the sulphur and char from a coal fire destroys boilers over time, and the smell of coal coming from a small live steamer is not very pleasant in my opinion, as the sulphur and other volatiles have not had enough time to combust. This gives you a brownish smoke cloud that smells more of piss and chlorine than locomotive breath. As someone with 3/4'' scale locomotives, I have opted for the cleaner burning welsh coal. Welsh is expensive, and not readily available, so it may not be the first choice for many people. I strongly recommend it however, especially for anyone with smaller locomotives. Fantastic combustion and heat output, and I am always the last one off the track because I can just go on the stuff for hours, only stopping to refill my lubricator.
Thanck you,More please, how to build and step by step planing.How to convert to oil from caol?Did you know Mr Disney had an 15 gauge siainless steel train built for the office.Bye
May be a bit late late, but the answer is both. Many machine their own locomotives, while some are commissioned. Either way, both cost A LOT of money. Oftentimes a locomotive is around $20-30K. I could easily buy a house at that cost where I live, so I'll settle with the smaller live steam model engines for now. They've got plenty of models. Two well known model steam engine manufacturers are Mamod and Wilesco, or you could just machine your own or have someone do it if they're well educated with steam powered engines and locomotives. They can run anywhere from $300 to $1500 depending on what you're looking for.
Charcoal will burn hotter than wood, one of the reasons being there is no so no energy is wasted in turning water from a liquid to a gas. It still has far less of a calorific value than coal does. Therefore, you will be shovelling quite alot with charcoal to try and keep steam up. There is also quite a lot of vicious sparks that come from charcoal. No fuel is off limits though, I've known people who burn dried corn in their steam locomotives.
Today we think about the environment. So I think of a witness locomotive working on gas. Why because of the environment. Did she say an explosion? Any safety or safety precautions should be taken
You don't mention the problem dealing with the steam blower and propane (or oil). If you are pulling hard with a coal fire, and then stop, the reduced draft automatically slows the fire. You can turn on the steam blower at your convenience after you stop to maintain the fire. For propane, if you suddenly stop, the fire will blow back into your face unless you IMMEDIATELY turn the steam blower on. You can even flame out. Many propane burners waste fuel/water by leaving the blower on all the time for this reason.
I feel bad for live steam enthusiasts in America because Australian coal is the best quality coal in the world. 1,It burns way better and 2, it smells like the best smell ever created.
Everything’s a trade off. The sound is still there and you still get steam etc. It’s ok for smaller engines but it’s not really economical on a larger engine they consume too much fuel. In my opinion anyway.
I’ve never gotten the chance to run live steam, (We run a gasoline fired replica of a diesel streamliner at one of the clubs in the vid - not gonna be more specific as I do like some anonymity) but there’s just something special about the smell of coal fired live steam.
So yeah i really like a live steam locomotive i Basicly cried for one I really love thos machines ther amazing i even went as far as planning to build a small scale live steam locomotive becuase yeah so i even wanted to buy a live steam Locomotive but when i Look at the Price It Completly Crushed my Piggy bank i have like 200 Euros But the Live steam Locomotive cost over 12000 - 23000 Euros or dollers idk I Couldent Belive my eyes ther wer no Cheap Locomotives ther all BANK CRUSHING EXPENSIVE
Very informative video, i have to say stay with COAL for the realistic effect
I’ll choose coal every day coal always wins
Ive watched this post numerous times. I hope at some point you will give more info on kerosene and diesel. Thanks Blake and the steam channel crew.
The main thing about those is that you have to atomize the fuel correctly (with a valve) when it's burned. The atomizer aerosolizes the fuel with steam to optimize burning efficiency in the firebox. If you turn the atomizer up to much, it will put the fire out (too much steam, not enough fuel). If you turn it down too low, it will burn thick black smoke (too much fuel, not enough steam). As you adjust fuel flow you will need to adjust the atomizer. It will produce some soot regardless, but not on the level coal does. It's easier than coal firing because you don't have to think about the fire very far ahead like you do with coal, but also gives a challenge since you have to work the atomizer with the fuel control and blower.
Great video. Thank you for your time in doing this. Very informative about the fuels you guys run. Keep up the good work on videos! I hope someday I can come to your location and ride the rails! One day??
Yes,more videos are certainly in order,and thanks for making this one.
I love the new intro!!
Coal is certainly authentic. Propane, however, gives the engineer/operator more control to enjoy the ride. Oil is fine but you have to keep pumping it to the jets in the firebox. Propane is clean and neat. There's enough "dirt" with the grease and water that I don't need coal.
Yes, more videos like this one. Good information. Would love to see more about fire-up and how to run the loco.
Well done • Cheers from The Detroit & Mackinac Railway 🚂
I'm in this video! Oil fired Ten Wheeler Wabash 713! I can run all day on 5 gallons of diesel. About $12 bucks.
Corey Adams could you burn #2 home heating oil ? Even cheaper than diesel due to no highway tax.
ROTAXD I can, but I just stop at the gas station before I go to the track. Btw, my locomotive has a "drip hot pan burner".
Chances are I'm going to end up with an oil fired USRA Heavy Mikado, it will probably last me a while but I have no idea how long yet because I'm only an 11 year old live stem nerd. lol
Is it possible to run your locomotive on old engine oil? (from an auto-shop)
OUTSTANDING: I always wanted to know about the different fuels. 🚂🇺🇸🚂🇺🇸🚂🇺🇸🐢
Anthony Shepard why is there a turtle...
Thanks Blake, excellent explanation.
I live in Limey-land, don't think I have ever seen a propane fired loco, it's dirty lovely coal all the way! Mind you, it is readily available. Even the creme de la creme Welsh steam coal is affordable.
Interesting video, thanks.
I learned to fire on bituminus (soft) coal in a traction engine and steam powered carousel. I have run a 17 ton 4-4-0 on propane. I was unable to try wood on the 4-4-0. Wood and coal have a nasty habit of setting fires from sparks, ashes, and cinders is why logging railroads switched to oil for fuel. Oil is safer and easier to use than wood or coal. If handled properly propane is safe.
I personally prefer traditional Wood burners. There is also Char coal.
Hi, very interesting comments about fuels.Since i´m starting to use propane in an small 5"gauge locomotive, I´d like to ask you if do you think that if the flames go directly over the fire tubes these tubes could be damaged. I´ve put a little deflector between the lighters and the tubes just in case but, what do you think about?. On the other hand, the engine firing propane steams really well. Kind regards form the sunny Spain, Carlos
I was fortunate to have grown up when steam was still king. Nothing beats the smell of coal smoke. Reminds me of when I was a kid.
Awesome video
wanna buy some propane?
-Hank Hill
BioFox Infinite LOL very funny!
What about propane accessories? do you sell those too?
Great job, Blake!
Love the new Intro.
Well presented and very informative.
i agree-I found this fellow to be well spoken, and intelligent about his hobby--well done.
3:18
*Hank Hill has joined the chat
I'm thinking of using WVO as a fuel source for when I build my engine.
Will that work well for engines of this scale for an oil burner?
Provided I will have to make a WVO filter system. I plan on building a Southern Pacific MT class 4-8-2
so if you had a coal loco, does it take much to convert it over to propane? great video. this would be a great hobby ( size ) to get in to, but don't think there are any around southwestern Ontario
thanks for sharing.
The one thing at least in New Zealand is that there used to be coal that burned cleaned, it closed down. So we have to mix it 50,50 with bad coal and clean coal.
awesome video. very cool.
I would like to see a video of some wood fired locomotives . The old 440 examples from the 1860s would be interesting . Coal fired locomotives have a very significant role in history but some of the earlier trains brought us to coal . :)
chris summers I burn wood in my Fitchburg Northern on a grate similar to a pellet stove. It makes a hot fire using dry fir. I haven't figured out how to coal fire my engine successfully.
I do have to disagree about needing air to get an oil burner going. I use propane to raise steam and then switch over to oil. One thing about starting on propane, if you wait too long it lights with a bang. The good thing about that, if you have an all steel boiler, it cleans your flues. :-)
When I build my live steam mikado (if it ever happens) I think oil works best for me.
Would wood pellets like those in pellet stoves/grills work too? Or would they just not burn as good?
Yes lots more videos
Wonder if you could do propane with a touch of coal for effect. So the propane is the primary heat source and the coal to add just a bit of the smell/feel.
DeepPastry when an engine is set up for propane the firebox has a burner setup in the firebox instead of grates. There would be nothing to hold the coal.
Don't forget what the Grand Canyon Railroad uses; recycled vegetable oil... It has the same advantages and disadvantages of fuel oil, AND it makes the tree huggers happy... Lastly; you guessed it - your loco smells like french fries! ... LOL!
Awesome awesome awesome 👍👍👍👍
I'm actually planning to have my live steam engine burn propane or wood/charcoal. All three are somewhat clean.
Some coal are smokeless.
@@joshuahill6153 You gotta be careful with smokeless coal. Anthracite does not burn very well in a small locomotive. It tends to clinker up very easily and very difficult to get going again if there's a dead spot. Most steam engines that used anthracite had massive fireboxes where you could get really good airflow.
Use diesel fuel, it’s very energy dense, you can burn engine oil once it’s up to temp, & it’s easy to get if you have a few shops near by. I sometimes throw some WMO in my diesel on my 7.3idi/one of the last mechanical diesels, & when I was using engine oil & diesel. I noticed it used significantly less fuel on oil mix than it did on diesel.
On my mix I mixed 10-25% gas to oil then filtered it to 2 microns & that’s it. It’s a tad bit thicker than diesel, it runs quieter, it has a tad bit more power, & it uses less fuel/more BTUs & cetane.
Where can I buy one where you only have to pull the throttle?
Hey Blake I have a very good question about Kerosene is that just as clean as Propane or is it a little dirtier than Propane.
Any chance that you can do a video on diesel units between gas and electric.
Brent Piontek I can look into that for next summer
Which location is This ? I like this All Steam Locomotive and Very Interesting
would it be possible to build a propane/coal hybrid. Coal for longevity on the tracks and propane to get up the hills faster?
No...they are entirely different setups in the fire box and have different boiler tube setups to run efficiently. A coal engine has grates in the fire box for the fire to sit on and larger diameter boiler tubes to help the engine draft better...an engine setup for propane has a burner manifold in the fire box, no grates. The boiler tubes are also smaller in diameter to help the engine draft... turbulator strips can be put in larger diameter boiler tubes on a propane engine...but propane will be much more expensive if it’s run on an engine that wasn’t built with it in mind. You also lose power with a propane setup...if, for example, you had a northern running on propane...you’d suck the fire right off the burners if you open the throttle up too far. Which is why our 844 will be coal fired.
@@TheSteamChannel thanks, i suppose i was looking for a more "efficient" way of getting the best of both worlds...lol.
What about diesel locomotives like the sd40 series?
This is about steam engines.
What about a loco who's proto type was a mix of coal and oil?
Good video.
I Thank You, Young Son... For the learning!!! :-)
What about other fuels, oils, diesel, ethanol, et cetera?
Can you use charcoal in a coal-fired engine? How does it compare?
eric katz no. You wouldn’t get anywhere near the heat output of coal.
Firing with coal is brilliant, but after running with soft coal for many a year I have grown very tired of the smut and filth that collects in my smokebox, flues and tube sheets. Furthermore the sulphur and char from a coal fire destroys boilers over time, and the smell of coal coming from a small live steamer is not very pleasant in my opinion, as the sulphur and other volatiles have not had enough time to combust. This gives you a brownish smoke cloud that smells more of piss and chlorine than locomotive breath.
As someone with 3/4'' scale locomotives, I have opted for the cleaner burning welsh coal. Welsh is expensive, and not readily available, so it may not be the first choice for many people. I strongly recommend it however, especially for anyone with smaller locomotives. Fantastic combustion and heat output, and I am always the last one off the track because I can just go on the stuff for hours, only stopping to refill my lubricator.
How did you make that intro
Thanck you,More please, how to build and step by step planing.How to convert to oil from caol?Did you know Mr Disney had an 15 gauge siainless steel train built for the office.Bye
I wish I had an engine like those:(
Werebdo you get your engines made or do you make them yourself?
May be a bit late late, but the answer is both. Many machine their own locomotives, while some are commissioned. Either way, both cost A LOT of money. Oftentimes a locomotive is around $20-30K. I could easily buy a house at that cost where I live, so I'll settle with the smaller live steam model engines for now. They've got plenty of models. Two well known model steam engine manufacturers are Mamod and Wilesco, or you could just machine your own or have someone do it if they're well educated with steam powered engines and locomotives. They can run anywhere from $300 to $1500 depending on what you're looking for.
Does propane require much firebox modification?
Instead of putting grates in the firebox, you have to design a burner manifold to mount in it.
What about charcoal?
Charcoal will burn hotter than wood, one of the reasons being there is no so no energy is wasted in turning water from a liquid to a gas. It still has far less of a calorific value than coal does. Therefore, you will be shovelling quite alot with charcoal to try and keep steam up. There is also quite a lot of vicious sparks that come from charcoal. No fuel is off limits though, I've known people who burn dried corn in their steam locomotives.
How many inch are the tracks for those specific trains
7 1/4 inches
It’s not 7.4. These are 7.5
What about charcoal
were can i by one of those train s
Aussie Rail TV Productions ok how much will they run by
Well since they are 1.5 inch scale I would guess around $11,670
Do you think charcoal would be healthy for live steamers?
How does that relate to fuel, I may ask?
XD
Today we think about the environment. So I think of a witness locomotive working on gas. Why because of the environment. Did she say an explosion? Any safety or safety precautions should be taken
The environment isn’t going to stop me from burning coal.
How about using wood
You don't mention the problem dealing with the steam blower and propane (or oil). If you are pulling hard with a coal fire, and then stop, the reduced draft automatically slows the fire. You can turn on the steam blower at your convenience after you stop to maintain the fire. For propane, if you suddenly stop, the fire will blow back into your face unless you IMMEDIATELY turn the steam blower on. You can even flame out. Many propane burners waste fuel/water by leaving the blower on all the time for this reason.
I think Hank Hill would like propane because he sells propane and propane accessories.
make a run down video please
Methane/Propane all the way for me.
Propane and Propane accessories.
So what fuel do you use?
elmin2323 The presenter prefers coal and the director prefers propane.
+Illinois Valley Productions we support propane and propane accessories
coal all the way! the dirtier the better in my humble opinion.
WindersRanger I say diesel for the same reason
WindersRanger nuclear powered trains
WindersRanger hell yea
Coal fired for life, love the smell
I feel bad for live steam enthusiasts in America because Australian coal is the best quality coal in the world. 1,It burns way better and 2, it smells like the best smell ever created.
If I had the money I would buy one of those steam engine
I would say propane. It is cleaner and I would not have to clean my self every time I would have to if I used coal
why go propane if the prototype ran on coal?
Easier to run on, easier to find and buy, the engine stays cleaner, you’re not breathing soot, etc.
but propane doesn't give you the look and smell of a real steam loco
Everything’s a trade off. The sound is still there and you still get steam etc. It’s ok for smaller engines but it’s not really economical on a larger engine they consume too much fuel. In my opinion anyway.
It all depends on how you fire your loco and what type of coal you burn on your railway
No, I mean the propane is not that economical on larger engines
I’ve never gotten the chance to run live steam, (We run a gasoline fired replica of a diesel streamliner at one of the clubs in the vid - not gonna be more specific as I do like some anonymity) but there’s just something special about the smell of coal fired live steam.
Cinders and ashes
I wish I lived in Illinois i think that's were yall are
+Thekillersquid21 32 Generally, every state has a few live steam clubs/railroads.
The Steam Channel well I never heard of one in Tennessee before
+Thekillersquid21 32 the mid-south live steamers and the Eagle Point Railroad are both in Tennessee
The Steam Channel do you all have them custom made or do you make them yourself
When a hobbyist is saying coal is harder to find, what do ya think that means for the coal industry now? #Foreshadowing
I use propane!
I burn wood in my Fitchburg Northern.
So yeah i really like a live steam locomotive i Basicly cried for one I really love thos machines ther amazing i even went as far as planning to build a small scale live steam locomotive becuase yeah so i even wanted to buy a live steam Locomotive but when i Look at the Price It Completly Crushed my Piggy bank i have like 200 Euros But the Live steam Locomotive cost over 12000 - 23000 Euros or dollers idk I Couldent Belive my eyes ther wer no Cheap Locomotives ther all BANK CRUSHING EXPENSIVE
Ran a propane fired locomotive once, found it boring.
he breathes hard .
You wanna buy some propane?
Not enough talk about wood firing. 😒
It’s a fairly moot topic for anyone not running a small American.
@@TheSteamChannel There out there, Im going to be one.