Debunking The Usefulness Of APRS...Again
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ก.พ. 2025
- They Say If You Don't Have A Cell Signal, You Can Use APRS To Send A Message. But Can You Really??
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I have said for years that APRS is a solution searching for a problem to solve!
Yup
Took the words right outta my mouth
I can't disagree. Still fun to goof around with.
Applies to a lot of the ham radio hobby.
It has several problems it solves. In search and rescue situations, it allows tracking of where search teams have been. In areas with no cell service, it also allows the sending and recieving or SMS messages via an APRS-SMS gateway.
I love your videos, so please don't take this the wrong way, but you only demonstrated that APRS sucks in your area. I've had absolutely great success in Colorado and I hope the rest of the community picks up the slack. Again, I say this with the utmost respect, but maybe you could try to reach out to hams in your area to encourage them to start setting up digipeaters? Maybe set one up yourself (assuming you haven't already done so) to help push people along?
Don't worry, this guy never goes more than 10 miles from his house. Or he checks the aprs map and goes to places without repeaters.
I was just going to say the same thing. I have had a ton of success in CO sending text at the bottom of a mountain at a trail head with no cell coverage with immediate send and receive text back on the radio. I also beacon my route every 5 minutes when hiking 14ers and it has worked great. But mostly have been impressed with getting text messages out to SMS cell phones with no problem.
Truly, this video simply demonstrated that his closest digipeater appears to be garbage and that his area seems to be a hole for coverage. I have made many trips to various locations throughout the US and have not once encountered an area with such bad coverage as he demonstrated. Nor have I heard from anyone else how he was unable to get messages out when needed. I'm not sure what Mike's issue is with APRS.
@@mediocreman2 I just found out about The APRS map last night on my quest of what is APRS .. well there is very few repeaters in my area and when i click on the maps icons it freezes up!!!!! WTF .. i probable need a linux browser and a Linux PC to use this shit .. APRS SUCKS ... I'm Glad i didn't buy a radio with this shit in it ..
This is analogous to the 'cell phones don't work and never will' line of the early 90s. It is true that when there is no coverage, there is no coverage. If the infrastructure isn't there, than yeah, useless. But then that is true of all radio.... you have to go where the people and infrastructure are... One could make the argument that FM repeaters are useless, as no one is on them.
Seriously, this is like debunking the usefulness of water because of the lack of plumbing.
Yes!!! I didn't want to say it because I was afraid I'd be trolled, but this is the first thing that went through my head as I watched the video.
@@billcosgrave6232 I am sure there will be some trolling... but that's just YT.
I don't disagree with you, not even a little.
What I think gets some folks is that, y'know, we promote Amateur radio as this solution for ad hoc communications that doesn't rely upon the existing communications and power infrastructure. And, to wit, there's a good deal of Amateur radio that accomplishes that task.
But there are exceptions to this, and APRS is, in this particular use-case, a case in point. Another example would be utilizing internet-based infrastructure - RMS gateways with Winlink, linking repeaters over the internet with Allstar, Echolink, or tying a Raspberry Pi with an digital voice hotspot and advertising a talk group.
Similarly, if we're discussing power for emergency communications, then reliance upon fossil fuel generators would be viewed in a similar light. After all, if the power is out, the gas pumps won't work, either; and fuel stations are (as we are reminded in Asheville) reliant upon the fuel trucks being able to navigate roads to get the fuel delivered.
It's not that these are necessarily bad things, or illegitimate pursuits when it comes to Amateur radio. But it does need to be recognized that when it comes to emergency communications, slaving the success of one's communications mission on infrastructure that may or may not be there when that emergency occurs is...problematic.
This guy... He'll do anything to make a video... no matter how much effort it takes...
oooh, love the low hanging fruit of a comment! This is too easy !
You're just butt hurt that APRS doesn't work as well as everyone says. Good for you and your 10,000' repeater.
What a clown!
Mike the igate maybe down, there may be other reasons... aprs works when the infrastructure is there.
@@KY4TRKAPRS works when infrastructure isn’t there too, you don’t need to hit an igate, you just need two radios, it all depends what you’re trying to do with it
"The little lights aren't twinkling, Clark."
We have a didipeater at 10000 feet. It will work on APRS for hundreds of miles in all directions. You have not disproved anything but you are in an area that is not 2m friendly.
he only proved his area has inadequate APRS coverage, and that he hasn't been willing to fill in the void.
@@ChrisRobinsonKF6NFW 💯
@@genebodenberger he had to drive away from his QTH into the boondocks to be sure he could bash aprs
That digipeater would be instantly overwhelmed if people actually used the service. "Hundreds of miles" of coverage proves APRS is dead 🤣
And to be clear, I wish it *wasn't*. I have fun sending SMS Texts, Emails, and checking the weather, but it needs a LOT more adoption. It's a niche and not assumed to be reliable.
This is advised against by the creator of APRS. Can create collisions, stall traffic.
Next mailbag Monday “Mike you didn’t APRS HARD ENOugh!!!” Lol
Hahahaha!
I mean, clearly that's actually a garden hose and not coax...and the radio is somehow in a transparent faraday cage!
Am I doing it right?
My experience with APRS is fairly different, maybe the local digipeaters are a lot more better-er here. Wish yours was more like mine!
Congrats Mike! You found an aprs dead zone. I don't know if anyone ever said you can ALWAYS spot with aprs, I think they said you CAN spot with aprs. Fun video nonetheless! Love your stuff. Keep it up!
That's the thing about National Parks, they tend to be away from centres of population.
@@paulsengupta971 state parks are a thing and aren't always so remote. I think SOTA spotting via APRS is more viable, but to Mikes's point, just call CQ.
Mike is actually on of the "Sad Hams" he frequently talks about on his channel.
Dude, I'm the saddest of them all. But you still commented and helped get this video in front of more people. Who's sad now?
@@hamradiotube Just because we might disagree on some points (although I don't disagree here) doesn't mean I don't want your video to be popular. I love a big ol nerd fight! 😁
I hope cheap APRS options coming now make APRS more useful. I'm going to finally try it with a AIOB cable when I can. I expect it wont be amazing, but a fun project
Swear he was going to have a heart attack at the end the way he was huffing and puffing. Aprs works, but its only as good as the foundation you have. Don't be a sad ham. We got enough of those videos on youtube to watch.
So if doing an experiment makes me a sad ham, consider me the saddest ham of them all.
@@hamradiotube what experiment? You were not doing anything but showing the area has no aprs coverage. You knew this before you got started.. so yeah I stand by my view point.
@@kc8tyk86 That's just the point. APRS is not a reliable emergency communications system. And even if there would be coverage, every digipeater should be equipped with a diesel generator and enough fuel. RX only igates would not work because there is no internet ( the current backbone of APRS .. ).
A power-outage is the worst disaster to battle because we have become totally dependent on electricity. APRS does not provide a backup.
In general, HAM's often believe themselves to be the saviours of the world in case of an emergency. As a HAM I say: dream on.
@@gartnlYour late to the party. That wasn't his point. Aprs is AX25 protocol...packet radio.its only as good as the backbone in place.
Anyways most places have backup battery banks along with generators as this is nothing new. As for being saviors well that's a long subject matter as everything and everyone can have something to contribute at certain times. But he author was just wanting to beacon himself for a pota activation which since they have no vhf backbone he could have used hf aprs if he thought about it before hand. Anyways enjoy.
@@kc8tyk86 I know but think one month is acceptable .. The original point was to use APRS when you don't have cellphone coverage, that is as a backup. But if you don't have cellphone coverage you are in a sparsely populated area. Why would there be a digipeater in such an area?
As for the 'saviour' part. I'm afraid that in a real power-outage or other disaster anarchy takes over, as seen in the past. Unless you guard your generator with a gun in your hand you wan't be holding on to it very long.
Be part of the solution. Setup a your own digipeater and/or igate so aprs packets from you and others that can't reach the current igate, can maybe reach yours and be retransmitted or sent to aprs-is.
@@jonw695 HUZZAH, I like the thought patterns!
@@jonw695 that is fine in undercover Ed areas. However over repeating is just as bad for APRS
@@mikemandell132 yes, and if you watch the video, he is not able to reach a digipeater or igate, which is why i suggested helping his undercovered area..
I am in agreement with you Mike! We did use it to track our SAG vehicles during a bicycle race where Hams were supporting the communications, but even then it required the internet to support it. You had a real "evangelical preacher" vibe going on this one lol. Thanks for the vid!
I have used APRS to send a text when in areas without cell coverage, so I think it can be useful. But you did make me laugh by busting out the tape measure Yagi and a big 40 foot antenna.
Sadly, you're not going to be sending any more text messages via APRS. The laws changed and it screwed us.
Someone came out with a new way of doing that. KM4ACK did a video on it a while ago. Not going to see that here though 🤣
I commend you for trying to get out there on APRS.
Unrelated question: What drive-on stand did you use for your 12m Spiderbeam?
As an APRS-believer, maybe I should go to the next pet store and get a unicorn, this video is cracking me up. I admire you for putting in the effort and prove all of us believers wrong, as the No.1 APRS-hater you are - and I give you a lot of credit. But, but, but the potential! We just need more Digipeaters. Fun fact: I am considering to put up my own Digipeater, just to be able to "get acknowledged. I know, I know - it's pathetic. But I am not giving up!
The first 8 seconds made me realize that I can watch this video, but I really shouldn't...
Setup ham radio, get contacts, ask them to spot you.
This was hilarious! Loved it!
Hope to hear you on the Carlos repeater some time.
73’s from Aggieland
People will always find reasons to be butthurt in this hobby. It's like we're all butt masochists.
Necessity is the mother of invention. These frustrations transmute into new experiments and solutions.
Aprs can be useful for a lot of things. But I can definitely be useless for a lot of things. So thank you very much for showing us the lack of usefulness on that mode. Helps me to keep myself in check. And I'm sure for others that don't want to hear it, it does for them as well.😊
Well guess what, I brought a friggen Yagi.
In our community we use Js8Call on 70cm with FM. That goes much further than aprs....also much slower of course.
I build a box for that so it turns on and off the radio and the mini comp in it. writing messages with the phone....its running for nearly a year now without any mayor problems.
Have you tried VarAC? I really like it a lot. I use it on both HF and VHF/UHF.
@@levisorenson7873 yes a while ago. only problem is its only running on windows what I remember.
I tried a while ago. its good but what I remember only working on windows.
@@CrazyChekov Yeah, that is the one downside about even just VARA in general. I run it through crossover on my Macbook and it works fine, but I really wish there was a native unix option for VARA.
You can send APRS packets over JS8 on HF bands too btw.
But you can’t do that from parks. It’s verboten.
APRS has annoyed me from way back when it started. WHY ?!? What in the world is the POINT ? It's so lame, it makes FT8 look like a high-skill specialty.
Why talk on Nets? What's the point? Why activate a POTA? Why stick pins in a QSO map?
I was pumped about APRS. Had a Yaesu VX-8R with the GPS unit. Went hiking in the Olympics and nothing recorded once I got out of town.
You're not wrong. If you're signal is not being picked up by a digi-peater, then APRS is not much use. But, as one user from Utah pointed out - a lot of the re(digi)peaters are up on mountains here, and give good coverage. So, I can walk down the street, and be picked up by a digi-peater, but not always. So, you comment about it not being reliable - you're absolutely right. But, some of us still use it, and think it works.
Some events use another freq for APRS, set up their own digi - or just use point to point.
My Yeasu 400 hits the APRS everywhere I drive. W1LSE
This was a great video, thank you for making it. I've tinkered with APRS just for fun but have found that on VHF that the practical range is usually only 2-3 miles for most applications. At least to me it seems like APRS starts becoming useful much more so on HF than VHF. I know APRS 30 meters is a thing but I never see anyone talking about it or using it. Is it possible to do a POTA spot on 30 meters HF? I really wish I could see more content about APRS HF vs VHF.
Where's a shopping cart corral when you need one?
Great video! Unfortunately, I have had the similar experience even using a base antenna with 4db gain with LMR400 cable. You guessed it - did not work -So I gave up on this BS. AGAIN THANK YOU!
I'm so glad you made this video. APRS has always bugged me. More...the HYPE of APRS bugs me. It's ok for tracking. It's useless, tedious and slow for messaging.
Messaging on Yaesu radios is ridiculous.
Am I the only one who see's a flaw in his testing? I am not a fan or hater of APRS, but I think Mike is becoming one of the sad hams that he frequently talks about.
Oh yeah? What flaw might that be? Enlighten this "sad ham".
@@hamradiotube You have already enlightened everyone on your channel regarding the type of person you really are. I suspect this response will reveal even more.
@@billcosgrave6232 Oh thanks. Yes I am the type of person to go out in the field and try things and report on my findings.
I've seen APRS work mobile in far worse conditions than that over longer distances. Check your terrain and check the digipeater.
Hi Mike,
When you find yourself in an area without VHF coverage on APRS, consider switching to 30 meters APRS, using 10.1492 and 10.1494 MHz. Choosing the right band is essential for achieving your goals.
Remember, sometimes you just need to fail your way up to success. Don't give up-you can do this! We believe in you. After all, where would a QRPer or Winston Churchill be without persistence?
Never give up! 73, Dan KM6CQ
Yes, but there are so many things I would do on HF before I considered APRS on 30 meters. Not to mention most of my antennas aren't resonant on 30. I would go so far as to say APRS on HF would be the last thing I would do.
18 wheel mobile with millions of miles of no signal. Thankful for all kinds of ham modes that can help me talk to my family and I have used them. Cell phone service sucks everywhere that I go. But anyways nothing is perfect. I have all these tools that my hand and some of them just will never work.
I want those 6 minutes of my life back.
Mike, I gotta tell ya, you’re right. Thumbs up for great video editing one side on the car to the other.
Heh, Mike is kicking hornet nests again. But the results speak for themselves. I like APRS not because its actually useful but because "txt msg on ham radio go brrrrr"
Love yhe video. But I also enjoy messing with APRS. 100%? NOPE, but another mode to mess with. I've found that if I'm in range of a digipeater and it is up and workingproperly, life is good. Keep it up!
Yep, learned very quickly that APRS that the S stands for sucks, and annoy beacons
Mike, is there a way to see if that digipeater is even online? Could be down for some reason. Just a Thought. 😀
You didn't prove that APRS is useless, you just proved that there is an insufficient number of Digipeaters in your area. We have pretty decent coverage over a wide area where I live. No, not everywhere, but it's pretty darn good. It's like saying repeaters are useless because there is not one in range of you. Maybe encourage people to put Digipeaters or an IGATE in their shack and the problem of no coverage will improve. APRS is a neat tool to have in the toolbox. It's not available everywhere, but is in many places, it works great. I have been able to spot a pota park with APRS and not spot a park. Like everything, it depends. Anyone who hears just spot with APRS should know it may or may not work. I don't take a HT in the mountains expecting I'm going to make contacts. I just hope that there may be someone who might hear me if I really need to make contact.
Many areas didn't have repeaters until amateur operators put them up. It's much cheaper and easier to put a Digipeater into operation than a repeater. Instead of once again slamming APRS, be a part of the solution and show people how easy it is to get a Digipeater or IGATE set up in their shack so there will be coverage in more areas. If you are in the middle of nowhere, you're not going to have service of any kind, we get that and yes that includes APRS. Not SAD...Logical, yes.
From where he was at it was pretty useless to me. Apparently you watching a different video at the same time.
@@mine99759 I think he may have been making the point that from where he was saying APRS is useless he might as well have been saying 2M Repeaters are since he couldn't reach one. No different that claiming cell phones are useless as you found a dead spot. As a HAM we can either bemoan a lack of coverage or help fill it in, all part of the hobby. No one cares if you or he likes APRS specifically, okay maybe someone does for some reason. I don't, don't use it if you don't want. Showing a spot without coverage and saying that proves your opinion on what's good or fun about HAM radio is right, idk what use that is.
Sure I did. You clearly missed the point of this video that I mentioned several times. I'll let you watch it again and maybe it'll sink in.
Don't think into it. I made my point several times in this video.
@@hamradiotube Yes, you made the point that there was no APRS to be had at your pota site. That the statement that if there was no cell service, just use APRS is a false statement because there was also the fact that many places that have no cell service also don't have access to APRS. You also made it very clear that you thought APRS was totally useless. You are right, in many cases there is no APRS in more remote places. Some areas have wide APRS coverage and some don't. Some areas have more 2m/70cm repeaters than could ever be used, other locations have one or none. In some instances there is APRS when there is no cell service. I have spotted myself with APRS when I did not have cell service. If you just wanted to make the above points about limited APRS at remote sites, you could have stopped there and offered a solution. But you went on to basically say there is no reason to have APRS, which is also a very false statement. APRS is available in many places and has a use in the ham radio toolbox. Where you fell short was that you didn't come up with a solution. That solution is for more people to put up their own IGates and digipeaters to help expand the APRS network. That would have been a very useful addition to the discussion and would have benefited the ham community. You have a big voice on youtube. You came off as more of a Sad Ham than someone who wanted to offer a solution. I know you're not a sad ham and the vast majority of your content is very good and helpful to hams. When you do good, I am very supportive in the comments. When you miss the mark, I also will call you out. In this case, you missed the mark. Maybe you just don't see a need for APRS and don't care for it. You are entitled to your opinion. Many of us have helped expand the APRS network and use APRS from time to time. APRS is just one part of the many tools ham radio offers. Myself, I hate FT8, JS8CALL etc. I prefer phone. That said, I know many love it and 100% see the necessity of those modes. For that reason I have digital modes and on a limited basis use those modes. Take up Jason's offer of the PIE and put up a digipeater at your 20. You might not use it much, but other hams in your community will be thankful it's there and get the bug to expand the APRS network in your area. ....Ham Harder...73 !
"And would you believe, I thought of that too" LMAO
Does it make any difference if you attempt to beacon first? An Elmer taught me the way but I have no idea if it would make a difference. Asking to learn.
I tend to agree that remote areas with no cell also lack APRS (and often ham repeaters). APRS has valid uses, but it's never an emcomm tool for various reasons and is more of a novelty most of the time.
This is a funny video and I agree with you depending on where you are located. Here in the San Francisco Bay Area, for example, you can literally hit an APRS digi with a handheld and rubber duck from just about anywhere. Don't assume APRS is useless; its functionality largely depends on where you live and the amount of activity in the area. It can be very useful. One extremely good use case is texting a non-ham contact (out of the affected area of course) if the cell network goes down during a natural disaster such as an earthquake. Here in the bay area there are so many fill-in-digis and high level digis it's highly likely your packet will find its way to a working igate somewhere out of the affected area. So I'm sorry you live in an area where there is insufficient APRS coverage but that doesn't mean we all do and it hardly means APRS is not a useful mode when mainstream communication methods fail.
I didn't think APRS "acknowledged" a transmission because these are one-way.
In my local area theree are lots of digipeters. I too ran into the signal not getting out issue on one of my mobile advebtures so I have added 40m aprs over vara and thar gives me a 300-3000km range depending on conditions. Great thing about ham radio is theres always a solution if you want one... But easy to find fault if you just want that too.
Love the video - so much fun watching it!
You could have used 30m HF APRS and did your spot, if you took a laptop for digital modes.
He does go with his laptop.
If you’re wanting to get APRS spotted on HF then you need to be a bit creative.
Hint 🎱
Yes I see your point. US is vast country and not easy to find good APRS coverage. I live in the UK and APRS works fine 90% of the time, can't complain.
Automatic Poopy Reporting System... when you really need to see some shit LOL
APRS was critical to 3 recent SOTA activations. I guess I'll keep it around.
Have you tried APRS on HF? I assume you are there to work HF so you should have an HF rig. I think its around 10.147mhz 300bps or somewhere around there.
That’s one way.
Probably better luck with a little known digi mode.
Hint 🎱
Good god, no.
If you hoist a shopping trolly up a tree and can’t get spotted on APRS I’ll buy you a beer/coffee.
That would be a video I’d watch 🤣
Not everything works everywhere. But we should encourage people to dive into the part of the hobby that they enjoy!
Here's a challenge. Have a good enough signal that others will spot you.
Good point Dylan!!
Very nice MRDer mobile you have there Mike!
Has a great looking set of wheels on it.
Excellent vehicle even if the APRS option doesn't work 😅
The user terrible interface is a function of the Yaesu radio. Kenwood’s APRS is much better.
Oh and I agree 100% there is no need to spot yourself.
Truth!
I agree. Yaesu needs to be taken to the woodshed, not so much for their clumsy implementation of APRS, but more for 'locking out' any integrations with mobile apps like APRSDroid. Kenwood was just as guilty of this right up until the D75 came out, but they made it so damned expensive it's driving people away. I tell people the best way to get into APRS is with a plain old VHF handheld and a Mobilinkd TNC. An amazing (and inexpensive) device that, in conjunction with APRSDroid, really does open up APRS to its full potential.
Ask, not what amateur radio can do for you? but what you can do for amateur radio.
To be fair, he stated the Digi was 20mi south, (should) be well within a 50w mobiles range, especially on a vertical @ 40ft. My fill in RX/TX site receives APRS from a mobile whip 20ft up, from my City apartment in Dayton 30+ miles away with ease. So why the Digi wasn't hearing him is unclear with multiple possibilities, but it should have. I do also agree with Mike, APRS spotting for POTA is just silly. Much easier to call CQ if internet isn't available like he mentioned & ask for the spot with someone who can. We all have the God given right to agree or disagree, like or dislike & applaud him for keeping it real regardless of what others think or say. He's not a SAD ham, He's a "Keeping it Real" Ham stating in the real world on that day, in that park with a overkill portable APRS setup.....it failed for him. This all coming from someone who uses APRS daily & enjoys it, see's the usefulness, supports it yet realizes it also has its place & limitations. Others getting all wrapped up in Mike disliking APRS is pure entertainment. Boo Hoo it's his right. I primarily operate digital modes & get hate for it all the time because I'm not Dit-Dahing away or on voice chatting about my prostate exam next week. I'm not making "Real" contacts LMAO.....get over it and enjoy the hobby, doing what you enjoy. Its that simple & what matters.
Another great video. Thanks. I use APRS for tracking my travels. Was intrigued with spotting with APRS. As for spotting for POTA, I have normally relied on a hunter to spot me as my phone service doesn't provide enough data to use it for cell service connection to internet. I have a new weapon now, Starlink Mini. Hooks to my battery gives great internet anywhere I go. Travels in a Harbor Freight Apache case. I can now spot myself wherever I am. Love the Starlink Mini.
Steve, k7ofg.
Love your channel! And it is a very worthwhile endeavor, that you impart your knowledge to the rest of us. Let me impart a tiny part. In 1991 I was a Navy Helicopter Pilot , flying for the NSA (National Science Foundation) in Antarctica. I had some knowledge of electronics and radio. A project to place a radio repeater on mount Newell ( see pictures on Google images) was underway. It involved placing a 35 foot High fiberglass tower of about a 8 foot diameter on the top of the mountain. Mount Newell is about six thousand feet high with very shear sides on all sides. No roads are possible to be placed for access. All the pilots and crews call this antenna, the Green Pickle. It was hollow on the inside, allowing for electronic mounting. I told the engineers that it wouldn't survive the winds. The project called for placing the Giant Green Pickle by helicopter on the mountain. This involved great flying skill. And I considered it a bit dangerous. The engineers assured me it would be just fine and actually were condensing to me (I was a very senior pilot and had Antarctic experience and had a degree in engineering) We got it up there. The next season I was the first pilot up to mount Newell to service the electronic repeater stations located there. There was nothing left of the Green Pickle. Nothing, it was blown away. This at the cost of many thousands of dollars and a personal risk. Beware of "experts"
Forgive my spelling, I am very old. But still alive.
Not trying to start another video response, but can you hit the repeater with FM? There are repeaters that I just can't hit even when I'm only 8 miles away because the location isn't great with either terrain or something else I haven't yet determined. But I agree just get on the air, call CQ and let someone else do the spotting if you can't. As always love the video and the real world application test
Well this is a "repeater" and it is over FM. I can hit a repeater further south of me while I'm further north. Sure there's location, but something people always seem to miss is the actual point of these videos. Every other TH-camr makes the same claims about APRS. If you don't have a cell signal you can use APRS to get a message out. That's it. All I'm doing is proving that's not true.
@@hamradiotube are you a ham or not? how can you try to disprove trivial facts that you should already know? no sane person can claim technology X is going to work when you don’t have a cell signal, that’s too big of a generalization, and you know it
@@hamradiotube I guess I could have been more clear, does the repeater have a standard 2m frequency pair on the same tower. If you can hit the voice input of the repeater but not the aprs side vs not being able to open any part of the repeaters at that location. APRS, 2m voice or 70cm or otherwise. It is a matter of park to location possibly not having a great path.
Unfortunately I’ve had similar experiences. If I want to use APRS I usually end up doing it via DMR or JS8.
I think the big issue is digipeaters are usually cheaply built and have sub par locations compared to a repeater… has anyone seen a digipeater on a stationmaster antenna with decent height, heliax, some filter cavities, and a preamp? Add a decent spot on a tower? I doubt it. I’ve long suspected most gateways are deaf due to local noise. My vhf winlink gateway was until I put a few pass filter cavities on it…
I think outside if densely populated areas APRS will continue to struggle until a modernized solution is built. Probably using something more robust than ax25.
Great video Mike.. I’m so glad i’m only a HF SSB operator.. all this repeater stuff has waaaay too much drama for me, lol.. Keep up the entertaining videos. !! k0klb
APRS is available for a huge part of the Mantiqueira Mountains, Southeastern Brazil. In my channel on the video tab, look for " _Comunicação e Segurança_ ". At 1:31:53, from the window of my office and using a Retevis RT3S, you can see me sending a packet to a antenna 50 km far away. Geolocation was plotted. The logic behind APRS is the same for any other ham resources. If you do not have a repeater ou someone that you can talk to, you are alone.
I don't find aprs useful but I don't understand why we need to bring this type of tone to the hobby.
Singling out a ham radio mode and calling it stupid, is not a good look. I will spend my valuable time watching content providers that have positive content, not people bashing on their own hobby.
I suppose the APRS peanut gallery wants you try two cans and string. Great video Mike. All the best from Nova Scotia.
Probably.
I'm not that ambitious. I was introduced to it years ago. To each there own. After two minutes of demo, I walked off. However, I use a FT891 and 125 feet of wire. Some don't like HF. We all have different tastes, so no need to track dirt in. I appreciate him giving us his opinion. TY.
Hey, I am Nx1q -3 on your ftm-300 message list ! Wait, did you read my message from 8/19 ?? wahhhh !
Packet was useful. APRS is a gimmick.
It’d be cool if we had some geostationary satellite repeaters that also supported APRS. Maybe then it would be more useful.
If you would of waited long enough the ISS would eventually pass! You can use SOTAMAT to send ft8 from your phone through your mic to hit the RBN too.
I have the ftm 300 and d74. Trying to use aprs is the most difficult and useless thing I’ve come across in ham radio so far. I wanna love it but i don’t see its use and if i did its a huge pain in the ass to type a message
I've been debating on getting an ftm 200 or 300. One repeater with fusion about 30 miles away on a huge hill. Check into some nets in region but not very often. Mostly use HF but I'm wondering if I should spend more and get a fusion capable radio for using on one repeater? My understanding is if Internet is down then no good. Could I settle for the ftm 200 with single receive since I doubt I will use aprs? Just don't wanna spend more than what I need to. Any help is appreciated cause i could use my money for more HF toys and a cheaper dual band.
I use APRS as yet another tool, given it is already on my mobile Kenwood radio, when I am in the backcountry off roading to track routes and location. Use FT8 to spot POTA if you have no cell phone service.
Ive used this twice now since your first video. For me it worked with my 300. It spotted me but I never got the message back saying it worked.
You are right AND wrong... But the argument really is based upon ONE thing... > Where is the nearest ARPSI digipeater to one's location? < That is what will determine success or failure. But then again, just start calling CQ and get others to spot you. I've done it a few times before. It does work, eventually. 🤣 Great video Mike! 73!
I have similar experiences here in VK land. Very spotty coverage at best. I found that I have much better luck using D-APRS over D-Star, the purists will say that's not APRS. True that you don't have the same functionality but at least I can add a beacon comment that I'm doing a POTA at my position. 73's and thanks for posting.
I want to like APRS but it is unreliable as you said very well. I will run it for fun when driving to just send out my location, but I’m even wondering what the point is for that.
You know what's way better than spotting via APSPOT? ...SOTAmat.
In my opinion….APRS is about as reliable as trying to make a phone call with a pager from the 90’s!
While I think we're far too dependent on spotting (activating and hunting) there is a time and a place for it. If your time window is tight due to weather or just life in general, or if you're operating on an atypical band, spotting can be essential to activating a new park or from a new state. It's good practice to just call CQ when you have the time, but if there's need, you have to have a good off-grid spotting tool. APRS ain't it.
Have you tried APRS over JS8 on HF? I can even text cell phones using JS8 and JS8 tools.
Why did you have to spoil the fun.🤪
I posted a hint above. 🎱
Not everyone reads the comments.
Let’s see if Mike picks up on this.
Yes, I got all of your "hints". I know about it. Have known about it. You have told me nothing I don't already know. I still don't care about it.
@@hamradiotubethen you don’t care that you’re wrong?
Hmmm... I can almost hear Jason saying "Take the pebbles from my hand Grasshopper". 😉
Agree 100% aprs sucks. You are more likely to have a cell tower closer than a digipeater
My issue with APRS in a big city is that I’m inundated with received messages whenever I turn them on. It’s non-stop. I don’t quite understand the practical use when you’re getting 20 messages a minute or whatever of all location/weather updates. Also, if the grid is ever down, how many of these digipeaters go away?
I use aprs in the middle of the ocean all the time via a satellite 🛰️.This guy is clearly doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
Make a video on you doing it. If it isn’t documented, it doesn’t happen. How are you doing APRS in the middle of the ocean?
I think that APRS can be useful in some instances. If your are driving cross country it is possible for someone to monitor your progress, for instance. On the other had VHF communications in remote areas is often useless because no one is listening. Try calling on 146.52. In the past I drove 600mi periodically calling CQ on 146.52. with no response. APRS will be better than this because of the number of digirepeaters but still there are remote areas. Try calling in a remote area of ND. APRS can be helpful in guiding rescuers to your exact location provided they have been notified by other means (e.g. Garmin in reach) APRS can help in tracking hikers around a base camp. Positions can be exchanged between individual subgroups and the base camp. APRS can also be used for balloon tracking. APRS POTA spotting clearly is a questionable.
I will take that challenge to get a spot out via APRS. 😎
It’s a hobby that’s supposed to provide an opportunity to experiment and learn about technology that interests you, it’s 100 hobbies within a hobby. One person’s “useful” is another person’s useless. Try to keep that in mind.
Hahahaha I just stumbled across this video. You said I tried, I tried , I tried. I thought to myself did you try 144.390?? Hahahaha good video and sorry it didn't work out for you.
That's how I feel about FT4/8 What's the purpose. Just to prove you can propagate a weak signal in bad band conditions? Yes, it works. But does it serve any purpose. Other than mapping propagation? Not really. You HAVE to have certain messages for it to not think it's a bad message, you are extremely limited in message length, and it looks for key components of a message to determine what message it needs to send back. Couple those things together, and it literally serves not purpose. It's not "communicating." It's really only good for saying "Yes I heard your signal." Great!! I heard yours too. But if that signal cant carry any sort of information other than your call sign, your grid square, and the senders signal report, who cares!? As @Rusty-Williams said about APRS... FT8 and FT4 are solutions looking for a problem.
I believe that APRS is nice to show your position, but I have to agree with you that "messaging" with APRS is just ... impractical. I am working on an APRS iGate to put on my basecamp antenna tower, which will already host a 5watt repeater, a Meshtastic node, and some antennas needed for radios down in the tent. It also will have a mobile hotspot for DMR, and a cellular 24db antenna to "pull-in" cellular coverage from a cell tower out of reach by normal means due to trees, hills, mountains, etc.
I like positioning myself with APRS, because it's an already established system. But for messaging? I still haven't seen an advantage to it. THANKS for the info and presentation.
As a Ham you should strive to be good at overcoming obstacles in communication. As an extra you should have some knowledge of HF APRS and maybe you could encourage others to upgrade their tech license to at least a general. 30 meters is pretty good at overcoming the local repeater not reachable obstacle.
Unfortunately Packet Radio, which is the core of APRS, has waned in popularity for a couple of decades now. Digipeaters used to be everywhere in my location, and that's what made the system hum. As Mike has demonstrated, APRS simply cannot work well at all if you have to hit a digipeater from 20 miles away. Remember also digipeaters shouldn't be confused with REPEATERS, which are usually high up and provide good coverage. Digipeaters are maintained by us lowly HAMS at residences with Antenna restrictions.
So I contend that if POTA was conceived in the mid-1990s, spotting via APRS would have been much more viable, except of course in the more remote areas.
But as others have stated, If you have a mountain with a digipeater on it, you will get many miles of coverage, but a state like Florida, you are out of luck without a lot of participation in the system.
This video got me to subscribe to your channel. Great content!
My APRS experience ... it works really well ... unless it doesn't. And that applies to a lot of ham radio. And it also applies to a lot everything else in life. The question your video poses is ... Why didn't it work and what can be done about it? As per so many ham radio things, there's so many links in the chain that could be the problem and so many thing to do about it.
FWIW, I'm hitting a digi about 18 miles away using an FT3D (5W) & SignalStick. It's sitting in a steel sided house. I'm pretty much at ground level. The digiis on a tower but I don't know how high. Last I checked the PHG circles, I'm outside the range yet hit that digi a lot. YMMV
I prefer calling Cq I can tell when someone spots me by the 6db gain I get
I waited Mike. I'd say I'm disappointed but I'm not. oO(how many of these comments are going to be on the next "Mean Comments" video). The entertainment on the comments coming out already made the video more than worth watching. Thanks again. APRS is great when it works, but in a lot of places.............it lets you down, like a cheap cooler towards the end of a hot Texas day when all you want is that ice cold beer, and you have a warm beer at best..........Should have bought a better cooler. Take care.
Was the Digipeater on at the time?