This might be a contender for the most petty video made pertaining to this hobby. If having fun is not the intended goal of your game, that's fine, but you're automatically disconnected from the number one goal of 99% of people in the hobby. Here's some unsolicited advice, learn to edit.
@Yekrep No thanks. Hate watching is not a good habit. Thankfully some dude timestamped the silliest whining in this vid. Came for the perspective, got 2nd hand embarrassment.
Wrong. That crap isn't a proper RPG to begin with. It's a shitty paper videogame and Matt Colville, despite being friend with Jim Murphy (who knows what RPG means) decided to milk his tourist fanbase ($150 minimum) instead of taking the opportunity of his tribune (500k followers) to educate them. He could have made a real alternative to WoTC. A meaningful mainstream alternative. The Tourist-Friendly Sandbox Ultimate Tool. His fanbase would have bought anything. But no... So I consider him a opportunistic hypocrite. He's a fraud.
When I first got into the hobby I really enjoyed Matt's Running The Game series, I still recommend it to people looking to run an adventure game for the first time. But then I saw the first couple of episodes of The Chain and it made me realise "really? This is what we look like when we're playing D&D?" It's taken me awhile but I'm so glad that channels like this are trying to show an alternative, and give actual actionable advice on how to do it. Thanks Crispy and I hope your tomorrow is a better day than today
You hit the nail on the head - "is THAT what WE look like???" I cherish the fact that nobody watches my table but the people at it. The observer effect is heavy in this world.
@joetucker5483 I agree. It isn't a hobby that works well as a performance for an audience. But perhaps there is an idea or two that will help where it matters most, in your own game with your gaming pals.
This was such an interesting video. I personally have found Matt's advice really useful and enlightening when it comes tp ideas for my own game. Yet every time I try to watch their games I end up dropping them. And perhaps the lack of applying their own advice could play a huge part on that. If anything. I appreciate the different views and perspectives because asba relatively new GM, it's really awesome to see what everyone has to say to realize what I want for my own games and players. Im glad this video showed up in the Algo for me. Good day.
I'm happy to hear that this was helpful to you. I too often find myself in agreement with the advice videos. Sadly, it appears that there is a large gap between the advice and the actual practice.
There are a lot of actual plays out there that play really well and are very entertaining, I find watching them and learning from example is much better than listening to the guru-style advice videos.
Greetings from Legion of Myth and from The Basic Expert & Associates: Attorneys at RAW. I appreciate you taking a moment in the video to highlight this SEVERE problem of Functional Illiteracy in the hobby. One of the biggest things that I have attempted to spread throughout the hobby, and amongst my friends like Ryan Howard is to RTFM (Read the F'n Manual). It bothers me when people approach this hobby as if reading were optional. RTFM. Do not worry about memorizing every word, either. You Read so that you know where you can Reference the material on the fly, and this in turn gives you Book Control to Recall information as you play the game. It is my belief that RTFM is the single most important FIRST step in this hobby, WELL before the "just have fun."
I agree completely. Learn the game, and everyone at that table agrees to play by that same game. It is not too much to ask that all participants have read the rules of play. Reading the rules can also improve the imagination that will come during play by providing a framework for how the fictional world behaves.
@@Tablerunner The argument that I constantly hear is, "Well, we just don't let the rules get in the way of our fun. If we don't know every single thing in the book, that is not going to stop us, because we are having fun." And then they will spend HALF the session looking up rules and arguing over rulings. People fail to realize that if you read the rules completely and understand the rules completely, the rules will then inform how you parse your actions in roleplay and the rules will fade into the background.
@@Tablerunner Really miss Shonner. I used to email him links to some particularly egregious affronts to roleplaying lol. What you're doing here is definitely more constructive tho and I really do think it's needed. Its one thing to recognize that these "actual" plays are often performed with an audience in mind but you have to realize that this stuff gets emulated by most newer players in the hobby. They essentially learn how to "roleplay" from these kinds of actual play videos. I work in a game shop and see it firsthand and hear about it secondhand all the time. I've seen maybe one or two actual rpg sessions happen in store, the other 99% are essentially identical to stuff like the above.
@tomorrowwindow453 I miss him a lot. I'm not aiming to replace him as I don't think I could. But I do hope to put out an alternate view in the hope that a few people out there could benefit from the effort.
This is a cross we all must bear. TH-cam will die a very quick death if old men ever stop shouting at clouds. Shonner was the best, acerbic, angry, usually right. And best of all, if you responded back the same way he was fine with that.
People tend to play out of character when immersion would be too much effort for their mind, and being out of character does't help so its a vicious circle
15 minutes in and i can already tell that you have a fundamentally different idea for how dnd is "supposed" to be played. it doesnt matter what you would or wouldn't put up with with this table. this isnt your table and these arent your friends. every single person I've ever seen play this game has played it differently and thats perfectly fine.
My feelings exactly, I started to get the feeling that the whole point of this video was to coach these players to do better and to me that goes against everything that playing roleplaying games are, if you want to knickpick about playstyles then comment about your own games and point out moments you wish you could play other way and teach us the audience through your own mistakes rather than trying to point out that everything they do is wrong because they don’t play like you would like them to play
I've only read one of your comments and I can already tell this hit close to home for you. You are right about one thing though: it is fundamentally a different idea. Some people play TTRPGs as an excuse to hang out with friends, drink beer, eat pretzels, and make pop culture references. These people might as well play Cards Against Humanity. Some people play TTRPGs for the tactical challenges and wargame elements. These people would turn TTRPGs into pen-and-paper analog video games. Some people play TTRPGs to have their GM tell them a story. These GMs should go write a book, and the players should go read one. And then, there are those who recognize the unique, essential, and ideal feature of roleplaying games; the thing for which they are named: in-character immersive roleplay. Recognizing that people do things differently does not preclude the possibility of there being a better way to do things. And if you are unwilling to make a value judgment and say one way is better or worse, you have condemned yourself to stagnation and mediocrity.
I remember a video where Matt mentioned why he stopped streaming and he said he really didn't enjoy the stress of being live, and I think some of the players also were unsure about that too, so that must have been weighing on him. There is a reason he doesn't run a game anymore and I think it is uncharitable to use this as an example really. Plus I think it is cruel to insult the players, who are probably uncomfortable being filmed. These are just normal people, not actors like in CR.
Really appreciate the comment DM Scotty. My hope is that some who watch these videos will be inspired to review their own habits. We love EZD6 sir. It is an outstanding game.
The only thing I can nitpick is that the Draw Steel rpg is pretty much finished and the final play test pack shows a complete game, before any kind of finalized layout of course. So you guys have to stop the "the game isn't finished yet" BS. I can't argue anything else you talked about.
@@Tablerunner I remember a debate over dice mechanics. They hadn't even settled on dice before kick-starting it... And may I say how lame and lacklustre the name "Draw Steel" is.
Matt Colville has bemoaned producing his table's role playing sessions for online consumption during one of his recent streams. He gets it. Even in his streams, he just bebops from one stream of consciousness to the next. It's like sitting through an absentminded professor's class to get those sweet nuggets of knowledge that he drops every now and again.
The initiative rolling wouldn't be so bad if people had a system for tracking it. You would figure these would at least be good GAMES at this point, but it's guys that have played hundreds of sessions still waffling about a basic mechanic that's been in the game for like 40 years! Derro can be so fascinating, too. Born cursed to be insane, sun fearing bodysnatchers. One of my players was playing a fairly powerful cleric clearing some out and pondered... insanity is an illness, I can heal it. And did so. What does it look like to suddenly gain sanity if that's the kind of creature you are and the life you've lived? That was a hard hitting question from a silly fantasy game. And while I'm not against jokes IN CHARACTER, when you've seen what can come from these sessions and instead get "The fire, it burns!" heehee *giggling*... it gets old if that's all you seem to find.
I've played Shadowrun where you roll every round for your initiative and that value fluctuates wildly and combat goes faster for me doing that than this.
This is why I've become such a fan of side-based initiative and pre-roll declarations. Basically AD&D 1e. Combined with a more abstract combat round (1 minute of action) as a DM its gives me more leeway to interpret the results of the declarations and subsequent rolls rather than the blow-by-blow procedure of something like 5e. And it actually adds some excitement to that single d6 initiative roll.
@tomorrowwindow453 I don't mind side based initiative either. Most of the time, as you can see in the games on my channel, we just stay in a turn order for the whole game.
@@tomorrowwindow453 I always liked WoD's initiative scheme, though it doesn't really fit 3D play. They would have you go through, from lowest initiative to highest, declaring your intent. That way, higher-initiative entities could react to what lower-initiative entities were telegraphing. Unfortunately, that means you're using a lot of "I intend to"s and "I want to"s
Just a couple quick thoughts. O’D sorta joined the game unplanned, I’m not sure how familiar he is with playing (coming from memory of watching the Chain long ago). Lars was reading the description of the spell because Matt clearly said “sounds cool, I’m not sure what it does”. Seemed to me like everyone involved had an absolute blast playing this campaign.
@@Tablerunner If he did, it wasn't a memorable explanation, but he did say he would never do it again and he did argue with someone in chat about who gets to say it was a success or failure.
@@Tablerunner According to what I've heard in a few of his Twitch streams over the years, his players hated it. They didn't enjoy being on camera in general, supposedly. The plan moving forward, according to what he last said, is to play in private and then do the campaign diaries as a replacement.
@@BrockStrongo Maybe it is because the internet exposed how badly their play was, and it destroyed the illusion that Matt knows what he is talking about.
@@KraftyMattKraft Surely he knows what he is talking about to some extent right? Like he is one of the most successful people in this space. He has run multiple massive crowdfunders. MCDM has a pretty large active community. Even if you don't agree with him he has gotten a lot of people including me to start running their own games.
MCDM Draw Steel: The Auto-Scrolling-Cinematics-Quick Time Event-Auto Hit-Button Smashing Combo-Paper Video Game! Because... No time to fuck around, right?
You absolutely should keep making videos on this, the audience/youtube certainly thinks so judging by your metrics! It was a great video and you're speaking to the people who cringe after seeing a lot of actual plays. Some of the most watched seem to be just like watching a bunch of grown up children talking over each other or long drawn out boring scenes. You have a real nice opportunity to double down on this "unsolicited advice" series. I think if you tighten it up you'll be at 1k and monetized within 3-4 months or less. Go for it!
Everyone say it with me: "Anna, why are you talking? It's not your turn!" This was a far more helpful video than I realized. I'll be careful about these bad habits in future games that I run.
I hope, from the bottom of my black heart, that a 13 subscribers channel, with 457 uploaded videos, gives you an unsolicited advice, regarding one of your actual 4D plays. I'll give The Horizon a try (not the critique, I need 12 subs to reach 13, not to mention to produce 457 videos, only a watch). I like EZD6!
1:10 "this is the last session that is public" Nope. The Chain of Acheron goes to Ep. 27. It stopped due to the pandemic. They are in a playlist on the MCDM youtube channel. 8:50 "Matt, who are you talking to?" Partially the audience, partially the players. Anyone that might care that he's not rolling a bunch of dice for the enemies. His players had critiqued him before about how if he knows a combat is coming he could pre-roll initiative so now he's saying that he did do that this time. 9:17 "don't do that" There is no reason for you to say that he shouldn't play the game his way. Some players take a little while longer whether the dice rolled off the table or they just weren't good at math, it's fine to get the players initiative roll by who is ready. 11:00 "I don't like her response which is to giggle". Dude, you would stress me out if I wasn't allowed to giggle. Normal human reactions aren't allowed? 13:40 "O'D, he's playing leech. He says what his character is doing" No, O'D is playing Leech who has a familiar, an imp named Odie. He asked the DM what his familiar was doing. O'D is a new player and was getting clarification of what his familiar does. Odie is not Leech's chosen familiar. There is a force that has intercepted Leech's connection to his patron. As such his familiar is only partially compliant with Leech's wishes. Phil joins in because he enjoys the characters and everyone is having fun. O'D didn't lose control, Phil just enjoyed the description Matt had given enough to parrot it while waiting. Which is fine. 14:40 "you don't have to play like this." It seems like you don't find it acceptable that they do play this way. You're policing their fun like it comes with strict rules that must be obeyed. 17:40 "Ep. 12 Why are we still talking about this?" Because this ability has not been used yet in those 12 episodes. Characters change, level up, and if you haven't used something before, or haven't used it in a while, you forget the specifics. 18:38 "Tom, not your turn" He's helping. He SHOULD speak up if it's to help. 19:00 "people talking over one another" Yep. It's fine to speak to each other while not being the one who's figuring out the spell effect. People are capable of thinking out a problem while other people in the room are talking to someone else. 19:38 "Why is Lars talking now?" He's obviously helping Anna. It is not wrong to talk to Anna when helping her. If Anna told Lars to back off, then Lars should stop. If Anna appreciates the help, Lars is doing the right thing. 20:07 "it won't matter" It does, see the 1:22:45 comment 22:00 "really, were going to read the card" Yes, Matt has asked for clarification as he has multiple editions of D&D in his head so he doesn't have the nuance of each spell in perfect recall. 23:35 "everyone's paying attention right" There's a difference between paying attention and remembering which one it is when they all move around the board next turn. Markers help us keep track of things, especially when the seal would be visible to the characters so they wouldn't need to rely on memory. I will also be trying to plan my next turn while others are taking theirs in order to speed up mine. If I'm counting squares or something, I might not catch everything someone else did on their turn. 24:30 "we don't care where your toys were bought" You are critiquing that he is comfortable enough around his friends to vocalize his internal thought. Given that many people are also watching the stream and Matt pushes more people to try and be DMs, where he gets his stuff is info that people ask for. It is reasonable to say that now isn't the time though. 29:44 "Why is there any question as to who is next?" There isn't. It's the enemy turn. Matt has multiple enemies to run so he needs to figure out what they each do. He doesn't have the luxury that the rest of the players have of determining the next turn while others are taking theirs so it takes him longer to run an enemy's turn. One of the complaints that Matt has voiced is that the spells are not described in the stat block of the enemies. So he was likely considering what spells to use and whether he can get out of the Silence. 35:30 "you have responsibility to play your character" He was, it's just that he's farther from the board so he said what he wanted to do and Tom is helping him move the character into position because Tom is closer to reach the board. They are talking about whether the space Tom moved Leech is where O'D wanted it. Copper isn't involved. 36:10 "why are we getting exposition right now?" Matt is filling the empty space while O'D and Tom get Leech where O'D wants him. 36:30 "did he say he examines the environment?" No, the character would have just had eyeballs and already seen this information. I would find it ridiculous to say that your character can't see something unless you ask. 36:50 "The way I would suggest you do that" You are literally nitpicking his word choice when he asked how tall the ceiling was. If your going to do that, I couldn't feel like I would have any agency at your table. 39:40 "Wanker #2" I don't understand what problem you have with this. You didn't state how you would identify the enemy, and numbering seems to help them, so I don't know what you think is wrong here. It's not like the enemies were given different names or anything, so what do you want them to say to make sure everyone knows which one? I usually use chess pieces for enemies that I don't have the proper mini for, and I have marked on each chess piece a different number/letter/symbol to make call outs easier. Immersion shouldn't get in the way of playing the game. If you are so strict about immersion that the gameplay is in the way, you probably want LARP instead of a table top game. 40:55 "how would he know they are heavily armoured?" By seeing them wearing armour...
43:25 "Matt, head in the game" He responding to a joke from one of his players. They are friends, it's fine to share and respond to jokes. If this was a professional team you would expect them to be as serious as you are wanting, but they are just friends. They are having relaxed play time that allows for side comments. 46:00 This is not a violation of trust as the whole campaign is homebrew. They explicitly signed up for homebrew monsters. They don't know what all the monsters can do, because why would they? Their characters certainly wouldn't. My experience is that most DMs adjust the enemies to fit the place they want them in their game. Encounter balancing is standard. (ex. if you need a goblin but it's too low level to challenge the party, make a goblin chief with better stats to throw in there) 51:24 "no cheerleading". Why would you (a person not at their table) think you should tell them not to support their friends' success? It's automatic to be happy that your friend succeeded and a simple "nice" is not going to cause problems. 57:25 Your complaining that not everyone knows how everyone else's stuff works. That's not their character, I don't expect them to know how it works. Also, it was just mentioned that Boots is only just now a bard. This wasn't something he used to have, it's new. If I was running Boots, I would have how it works on a card that I pass to the player when I give the buff instead of table talk. If there were any questions then it's totally reasonable to explain it as needed. 58:00 She's already played a bard... so why you reading it?" She literally just said "its been a while", that's why he's reading it. Also, if Boots hands out inspiration to another person that hasn't played a bard they wouldn't know how it works. So best to read it. It also helps Tom make sure he knows how it works if he was unsure. 58:36 "Why are you talking?" They are reminiscing about how good Anna's bard was because it was brought up. A shared fun experience that makes them happy isn't a bad thing to take a moment to smile and laugh. 59:20 Multiple sessions... "they are all like this" Upon realizing this, you should realize that this isn't a problem. His players haven't left, they are smiling and laughing. Some of those players have played in multiple campaigns with Matt as the DM. They enjoy having fun this way. It's crazy to think that they are wrong for doing so. 1:08:55 (You trusting the player is responsible for remembering). Everyone is fallable and it is obvious that the player forgot. This isn't a breaking of trust if a person just forgets. 1:11:00 "it's all about the fun. I'm just not convinced" WTF. You are literally critiquing people having fun with their friends as if there was a wrong way to do that. They never say that you must play like them. Why would you say they are wrong for not playing like you. It really feels like your trying to advocate in favor of the "meat out of a can" approach. You keep saying that their friendly banter is a problem but I would see it as the flavor and presentation of non-canned meat. Your drill sergeant approach of not talking at all if it's not your turn sounds more like the flavorless canned meat. 1:20:20 "are you checking your phone" Some groups send messages through the phones that the other players wouldn't be privy to. Matt asked O'D if he had his phone earlier, this is probably why. Also, I wouldn't expect my players to ignore their family while we play, at all. The game comes second to real life. 1:22:25 "you are not allowed" Go fuck yourself. You don't exist at this table, stop acting like they have to follow your rules. Phil made a joke about Judge's turn's taking a while as part of friendly banter. Friends are able to give critique that also applies to themselves. 1:22:45 "how does he know that" For someone who has a lot of complaints of not paying attention, maybe you should remember. 2 of the enemy are spellcasters, they have a different kit, that would be obvious (no halberd and heavy armour). The player doesn't need to say "I look at the enemy", they can just see them as their character would without vocalizing it. Because they are spellcasters, they are not just bags of hitpoints, they work differently (different AC, abilities, etc.). Same reason they silenced the gong at the beginning, it might do something other than just hit them. 1:29:40 "isn't an optimal use of their time" Hanging out with friends isn't about optimization. You make fun sound worse than work and that anyone having fun a different way is doing it wrong. So many people watched The Chain of Acheron and backed Draw Steel because this is exactly the kind of fun we wanted and enjoy. I've been at tables that had more side conversation than I wanted but it wasn't wrong. If I had tried to make them change to my prefered level of side conversation, I would have been wrong because I'm not their boss. The only thing to do is to find a table that you enjoy and let others have fun their way. Matt's Running The Game series is about how far more people are capable of running the game than they think. His game being loose and fun helps people see that it's fine if you don't have absolutely everything that could come up memorized. It's fine if you have to ask questions. It's fine to not take the game too seriously. Take what you enjoy and put it in your game, including chatting with friends. What you advicate for sounds like it would ruin the game for me. You keep objecting to what I saw as normal fun. (The players also apparently thought so as they were laughing and some have played with Matt in multiple campaigns.) I would feel like if I dared to have fun at your table I would be risking your ire and therefor be too stressed to actually enjoy myself. You want more focus, memorization, and silence than I would ever ask of my players when we are trying to relax by playing a game.
Exactly all of this. I feel like combat drags in my games sometimes and I understand wanting to speed it up, but this joyless “no talking unless it’s your turn” authoritarian vibe doesn’t sound like a fun hobby at all. If my friends treated me like this I would not play games with them.
@@Yekrep because I don’t agree with the uploader? I haven’t even said what my idea of a good session is. Being so angry that you feel compelled to film a 1.5 hour long video whining and complaining about how other people chose to have fun 5 years ago sounds more in-line with a toddler. This video was about 1% advice, and 99% angrily complaining. One of the reasons I watched this was because Coville came across a little weird and bitter in his live streams compared to his scripted videos. The comments had me excepting some huge flaw in Coville’s character. But nope he’s just having FUN with HIS friends at HIS table. He doesn’t remember every spell (who does) and he doesn’t force players to remain quiet while they are enjoying themselves or assisting the other players. This video made me feel much better about Coville. I think some of what the uploader is saying is useful. I wish my games ran faster and am always looking for ways to speed up combat. I may even take some of what he said and use it at my table. But IMO the way he says it is not helpful advice. It’s a bitter gate-keepery rant about enforcing your own personal standards for how fun must be had. This video is far more childish than a little goofy banter at an in-optimal time. He sounds like he’s that viral Reddit rules post.
I love Matt's Running the Game videos. I enjoyed watching The Chain, but mostly for seeing something different. I think Matt is fairly open about the fact that he's not actually the best GM. After watching this, I was shocked at how bad I thought it was.
To be fair to Matt, this was a game posted 5 years ago. He could run games much differently now. My hope is to show some common things that happen in games (even from the professionals) that could be changed to the betterment of the experience of all participants.
Was literally the first game I watched where I discovered that these supposed great game masters are just mouth pieces instead of actual awesome dungeon masters.
I sincerely hope your channel hits as many eyes as possible. Let the masses know more enjoyment and satisfaction can be obtained from playing. You just have to put in the effort.
Wow. It really is the same old shit ain't it? Same way they've been playing since they were 14 years old. You'd think they would in 10-20 years in the hobby realize they were missing that "something" in the game. Actual roleplaying solves so many problems,
48:00 This is insane to me. Oh, Matt, I have a +38 to my perception now! You didn't know? Well, I thought as long as we were using rules from other editions, I'd use the skill system from 3.5 instead. And a couple of feats. Do you think he would be ok with this? Somehow, I think not.
The whole campaign is Homebrew. So when Matt pulls out a homebrewed monster, it is not a violation of trust, it's explicitly what the players signed up for.
@ That sort of thing is best decided beforehand in a session 0. With a concrete document as to what is and isn’t homebrewed or fair game. When everything is up to GM fiat, you can’t have trust at all. That’s why the rules are there in the first place.
@ I just hard disagree. The trust is that the GM will not throw in some overpowered bullshit or instakill nonsense. Every enemy is adjusted during session prep to make it appropriate to what will fit the circumstances and challenge the player's character. (ex. if you need a goblin but it's too low level to challenge the party, make a goblin chief with better stats to throw in there) If the character doesn't have the enemy stat block memorized, it makes sense that the enemy can have abilities you don't know about. If the player does have the stat block memorized, even better reason to change it so as to avoid metagaming and keep it interesting. D&D has always been about homebrewing spells, monsters, and magic items. That's where a lot of the legacy material comes from.
@@R1bbaJack I'm not arguing against homebrew, I'm arguing against changing the rules on the fly. But then, I also don't agree that this situation was at all about balance. This was about a DM trying to put one over on his players for daring to succeed. And when you do that, THAT is what violates the player trust. He didn't pull some monster stat block out because it made sense to be in the encounter, he pulled a single "gotcha!" out to *win* the encounter.
So, I'm about ten minutes into this video, and so far the only thing that has really been said is "I don't like how Colville ran this session and I don't understand why their game got the support it did." If there's any substantive criticism, it's lost. I've never seen any of your videos, so I have no reason to waste any more of my time to maybe see a substantive critique. And to be clear, I have my critiques of Colville, but you have yet to make any.
If you spend time consuming the content this guy has created, you will learn the lessons he is imparting. If you don't put in the time, you don't get to complain. This is not structured or promising to be an upfront summary. It's a play-by-play critique. Your criticism is bad faith.
@@hawkname1234 People should stop throwing around "bad faith" without actually knowing what it means. I gave ten minutes of my time, which is more than most people would. As I said in my original comment, it may be the case that he has substantive criticism, but if it's buried in more than ten minutes of lacking critique, don't expect anyone to watch it. This whole comment reeks of "The game gets good after 50 hours, I promise". Maybe, but don't expect anyone to get that far. It's a poor excuse.
@@crybabysad I never said anything against long form content. I prefer it, actually. But if I'm going to commit an hour plus to a video, I want to know that my time isn't going to be wasted. Given that those first ten minutes were complete non-arguments, I'm going to assume it is. As I said, if there were good arguments in there, there is no indication of that, and putting them behind at least ten minutes of nothing does them a disservice.
@@calvanoni5443 I honestly can't figure out what you are referring to here. They did a smaller kickstarter for custom dice to go along with the new game. I know they give away stls for minis but I am not even sure they sell minis. I am not sure what selling products as a company has to do with Matt mentioning a cool kickstarter he backed. It seems like you just really don't like MCDM
To me, reality is stranger than fiction, again. The guy has taken millions to design a game, but still plays like this. Designing should start with play-testing, and a lot of it! And a long session every single week, with different people, gms, etc.
It's crazy to talk like this about something you clearly haven't looked into at all. They not only have testers they pay to playtest material before it is public but they also release playtest packets every few months for patrons and backers to run and give feedback on. They literally have thousands of testers.
@ What you said proves my point that C. is a businessman and not remotely a great gm or roleplayer. He has delegated the actual playing of "his" game to others. And he himself is a talking head, marketer, and perhaps boardgame designer (not sure there). This game and what you said proves it. As a boardgame it is perhaps fine. As a guy who sets himself up as an rpg guru, what happens around the table here is pathetic.
@ Your complaint was the they weren't testing and I explained how they actually have a robust testing system. You literally say "different people and different gms". Matt and MCDM also run their own internal games as well when testing. As far as the stream the reality is this was an experiment for MCDM in running a game live and Matt has said he wasn't happy with it. None of them enjoyed playing while being recorded. Lastly to discount someone who has gotten so many more people to start playing and more importantly running games of their own just because he isn't great at running an actual play livestream is crazy.
@ rpg guru is awesome, except when someone is looking. Also, all of his players are shit and dont know the rules. But he has lots playing the game. He's really great as a rpg guru. Except at playing the game. Really? And you think you won the argument on a technicality? Get out of here.
The Chain? More like the pain. Glad to see someone picking up Shonner’s torch. I’ve been wondering when D&D became a spectator sport. It feels like Colville was pressured into recording his game sessions thanks to critical role (he knows those guys) and social media. He’s very good when he’s reading from a teleprompter; so it seems like he’d be good in real life. But he really drops off when he’s live. He actually sucks as a DM and cannot put into practice what he preaches. One would assume that the DM would know the rules of the game; even going so far as to read the rulebook (yes I know nobody can remember everything). That's the first thing I do when I plan on running a game. I’m happy to give concessions for new player/DMs and new unfamiliar rule systems but still knowing the basics is 100% necessary. This combat is dragging on because the players don’t know the rules, nobody knows how to roleplay and have no respect for each other and are constantly interrupting each other. Money Matt isn’t helping because he doesn’t seem to care that the players don’t know the rules and he’s encouraging rude behavior by engaging in it. That’s not even getting into him springing a new mechanic on the players without warning. Which ultimately wouldn’t have mattered because they wouldn’t have known it was taken from a previous edition; except that Matt had to open his fat mouth and say something. Which I’m sure the only reason he did is because he knows he’s on camera and someone on the internet would complain about it. Whenever someone says "combat takes too long" this is entirely the problem and is never ever the mechanics. Anna is totally metagaming; partly because she wants to win (she's going to) but also because she's board and probably doesn't trust the Dm to give her the information she seeks. I "speed combat" up by revealing "privileged information" to the players. “Yeah, the ogre has 16 AC and 40 HP”. That makes it easier on me to run combat, because now the player’s can do the math themselves and figure out if they hit or whatever by themselves and just let me know. “I rolled a 16, and did 12 points of damage”. Is so much easier on the DM and faster than waiting for the players to ask if they hit. It actually curbs negative metagaming because now they already have the useful information they’re seeking. It can be more immersive as now they can just say “i run the ogre through with my rapier and deal… 12 damage”. anyway that was painful. Crispy, you are truly a river unto your people.
New drinking game. Every time Crispy watches a Coville live play take a drink when he says "it's not your turn".😂 See you all under the table. The sad part is Crispy has a point here.
Thanks for bridging it into consideration! It's higher production and stars a celebrity guest. The DM Deb is definitely guilty of playing others characters and I want to see what else you might pick up 🤷
They look like they're having fun playing the game, and they're streaming it because they can, not because the audience has paid them to be entertained. You look like you're miserable. You're not a customer and you don't enjoy what you're watching. You should find something better to do with your time.
@@crybabysadunsolicited? This video is clearly a cry for help by a professional hater. He's begging the audience to agree with him that someone is having fun wrong. My advice is just for him to be normal
This part is brilliant, too. Because no one knows the rule, and then Chat tells them the rule, and then Matt has either the complete lack of self-awareness or the massive brass balls to start arguing with Chat about a rule he doesn't know.
I refuse to believe those are experienced players, especially the GM. That was like less than newbie level, was like "We just got our first Corebook and we are learning how to Ttrpg",which there's nothing wrong with, but that's not what was suppose to be presented on that video. One hour and a half and there was ZERO roleplaying, that was purely a board game, roll dices and move squares, that's all. You describing how the canned meat falls from the can had ten times more roleplaying that their whole session .
I honestly stay away from most of the "GM advice" stuff or how to do this or that. Mainly because its either poorly done for the most part of adding extra systems into overpacked games alot of the time more so with the likes of Modern D&D (something I heavily dislike beyond what I can say on TH-cam) Started off playing 4E myself we ended up doing several games at once had a COC game as well as a Pathfinder 1E game 4E and Patherfinder have totally different feel and alot of systems are about feel of things IMO. Colville got a ton of people to get on his project I think it was way!! more than he expected as well tbh. But what he had to show wasnt anything beyond "here is a cool idea" they have changed the base system several times I think 3 times now. How many small projects out there that are new systems have people ran themselves for many years, super well play tested and they decide to try to show it off to the world? Yeah a hell of alot and many are great tbh, others do reskins of well knowns systems and they also work well. But it seems like they (Covilles people) havent a clue what they were doing for most of the project.
at first i was quite put off by your tone, but then as the video went on i went from annoyed at you to shoked by how *atrocious* the game on display is. this is how the dude i learned GMing from runs his games? this is the game of someone that sells their not yet finished rpg as being "tactical and cinematic"? saw neither
So much out of character talking and pointless banter. The only thing missing here is the Pizza Hut box on the table and somebody occasionally taking a bite out of their slice while making a bad pun. This is fine 1D gaming (playing the equivalent of a board game while joking around eating pizza) but it sure as heck is not a ROLE PLAYING GAME. Literally zero in character role playing. I'm sure they're having fun but they misrepresent what they're doing and people take this for real role playing and generally decide that is not for me. Many of them would love the idea if they saw a 4D game, and new people would come into our hobby.
@Tablerunner totally agree. And the sad part is it's the more thoughtful people who would be a great addition to our hobby who tend to just look at this and go no thank you
My first DM had us playing in what I now realize was a low fantasy homebrew setting. The game was so fun immersive and serious. I started reading Conan and watching documentary’s about the Bronze Age cities, just so my character felt more authentic. Every game after with other DMs has been like the one in this video, which is confusing. Players literally write two page backstories, just to not talk in character or know what’s on their character sheet- and be rewarded for doing so by the dm.
@@just-a-purple-orkI'm sure he does in a live stream somewhere. Other channels like Reactionary Principle Gaming and Black Lodge Games are great as well.
I don't quite like the general vitriolic energy that pervades this video, but I'm with you with all your criticisms, other than the one about the spell from another edition; the enemies have accesss to a miriad of spells, classes and skills that are not on the lists of the PCs. As long as it follows the agreed current edition rules (and most things are easily converted), it just means that the players need to adapt to a new unforseen danger. It's also a great way to make the world seem bigger and uknown.
The problem isn't just that it is from another edition. It's also that Matt changed his creature, mid-fight, to specifically counter his player. Matt is punishing his players and changing the rules to do so.
@@Yekrep I think that it would be absurd if he changed the creature mid-fight (would be crazy to have a spell sheet printed and prepared); I do believe that he made that monster in order to counter his players concentration spells, wich is perfectly reasonable encounter design (keeping in mind that you must not abuse this practice).
@Bri0tera Do you know if the group decided in advance to use rules from other games or editions? In my advice I said that if this was known in advance (that other edition rules may be used), then there is nothing wrong. However, if this was not known, then it violates the trust that players and GM will play by the same game. I want high trust games so that all can assume that everyone is using the rules properly, without having to state the rule.
@@Tablerunner Look, this reasoning is a little bit far out I think. Do you ask for consent from your players when you're designing every not by the book element in your games? If a rulebook doesn't have a rule for a sliding door that farts fire, do you send a private message to every player asking if they are ok with you making up a rule (following the edition's guidelines and challenge numbers of course) for it? No, no you don't. He essentially made up an ability for a monster, the question is only "Is it fun? Is it fair?", and we can talk about that.
I've stopped watching Colville's channel shortly after his Dune videos. I generally enjoyed his Running the Game playlist, but have since grown past it playing with my own consistent group of friends, and playing a ton of TTRPGs beyond 5e. Seeing your feedback, I'm interested in what you'd think of this clip of Jon Bernthal being taught "DND" by Deborah Ann Woll - it's an 8 min clip, but only the first half covers what it means to play a roleplaying game. Although the games I've seen her run are more along the lines of Critical Role and other Millennial tier TV shows, I think she does a great job with presentation and immersion for Jon in that clip. I'm not really a fan for calling a roll for every single action or aspect of a character, but the clip does a decent job of showcasing how a back & forth exchange can happen, more so than these shows featuring a series of "comedic" quips and jabs alongside tangential questions and conversation that make the game more of a backdrop rather than a showpiece.
20 mins in. Yup. It’s awful. But how can I avoid this? If I fast-forward, what advice would you give me? I don’t want to be like Matt but maybe I am… can you help? 😢
As well as Crispy, follow other channels that practice immersive-style / 3d / 4d gameplay Trill FilltheThrill 28mmrpg Dice tales Reactionary principle gaming Black Lodge Games Tomb of Lime Shonner
I really like Matt's older videos. Very informative. And he has published wonderful books, that show how much he cares about the game. But I agree that this is the most confusing session I can think of. If you stream a video at least try to really entertain your audience and present something immersive. I've been on a stream or two and I am far from a great entertainer but at the very least I try to play with my co-players to present a product. The Chain series wasn't really that. Then again afaik his players weren't really comfortable playing live on the stream. It was an experiment.
These people have a hard time learning the rules because they've changed 90% of them at one point or another. Mind you, they only know one system, you'de think they could manage that much.
It's weird to talk so negatively about a kickstarter that you don't know anything about. MCDM has had multiple massively successful kick starters with great content coming from each. People backed the Draw Steel campaign because they know the type of products MCDM makes are of the highest quality. Also Draw Steel is already content complete not still "trying to find a core mechanic"? Also I cannot imagine playing a game where you DM. No one is allowed to joke around, talk on other peoples turns, new players be damned. Not every group wants a super serious game. The worst part is man I agree with some of your ideas, combat can be more roleplayish, and it's better if people know their characters, but you come off as such a prick. You obviously know the game and have a point of view which is great but if you were kinder about your advice you would reach more people. Lastly, feels weird to constantly be telling the woman to shut up, maybe she spoke more but idk feels bad man.
I think at some point they stopped doing actual plays because it wasn't as much fun for them. They don't enjoy trying to perform for the audience. I think it kind of shows in this episode. There's too much explaining and downtime while addressing the audience and being entertaining. They are trying to connect with the audience but it isn't connecting for me, and clearly you haha.
@@Tablerunner A good format might be to do the pre-recorded, then have a lifestream after we've all had a few days to watch it and then we can just REALLY rip into it.
@kdolo1887 that's an interesting option. I'll give that some thought. I'm getting so many of these to watch now, I don't know if I'll have time to return to the same game for another go at it.
They are friends, they are going to have banter. If you want to speed run your games that's fine but it would be unreasonable for you to say that they are having fun the wrong way.
I had a different comment, but after watching for a short while, I realised you were right. I think you were driving while angry. Anyone can be overly critical of someone for their opinion on how they should game, but I found myself scratching my head at some of your critiques, especially around 42-50 minutes in. I think ultimately I disagree with the assertion that you can't bring things from other editions into your game, or, I'll go even beyond, and say that I feel like you are allowed to bring in mechanics into the game from entirely different games too. If you bring it up in the middle of the game, that's fine too. You can discuss it with the players after the game if they have an issue, and from what I know about his players, they had zero issue with it. I agree with you that they didn't play the way you like to play, and they also played the game in a way I probably wouldn't have played, but I saw that so many of your issues were more... ideological doesn't seem to be the right word, but it might be more correct than personal. After seeing the comments on the video, yours and the other commenters, I think ideological seems more accurate. I'm looking at your videos and their titles and so many of them seem to be right up my alley, so I hope that I'm wrong about that.
Matt changed his NPC, mid combat, to specifically counter his player's spell using a spell that wasn't in the agreed upon rules. Matt is punishing his player.
You've touched on the reason why I've selected these games in particular. These are from big names on TH-cam that are quick with advice of their own. Do they implement what they preach? We will see.
Same for me, I DMed my first session from Matt's advice and watched a lot of his 2018/2019 stuff, then I started to watch this game and by episode 5, I think, I was just so dead bored I stopped watching any Matt Covile stuff. I even drew and epic He-Man style fanart cover for the Chain, cause back then I was a big fan.
I gave up watching Matt's games after like two sessions. None of the players really looked like they were enjoying themselves. I remember watching the first episode of this particular game and one of the players lost their character like permanently early and it just seemed really damn awkward. This is the guy everyone seems to worship as a masterclass in D&D Dungeon-Mastering. I really do not think he practices what he preaches, clearly.
The way you judge them for crosstalk and OOC talk makes it feel like an exam rather than a game. They’re supposed to know the answers by now, right? I think most players would actually enjoy the game less if you demand discipline from them.
It’s really not that hard though. It’s like the difference between a kids martial arts class and one for adults. It’s ok if you’re there to goof off as a kid but you end up getting nothing done. And obviously frustrate those who are there to advance the game.
Is there any hope of Matt correcting his or his players lowsy gaming. No. His Ego is Gigantic from what ive seen, thats what the downfall of Popularity can generate.
Hey Crispy.. I guess I'd rather play than be a spectator because this was hard to watch! Also, you don't give away secrets or abilities of the enemies you control to players who didn't ask about or can clearly see. 🤣
Wait wait wait, so you're cool with the made up characters in the world having unique complex lives and personalities in which they have different interests, but if a gm runs their game in way which is less serious then you, then actually they're some kind of charlatan? Do you not see the hypocrisy there?
Hard to say. I am particularly focused on Matt as he is the one who gives advice to others. She does interrupt others a lot. Potentially an artifact of the "show" aspect of this game.
This is analysis is nonsense. Watch Colville other material and realize that what you are looking at is an amateur home game. Despite whatever staw man argument you want to present about what another GM's games should be, you have no idea what you're talking about.
This might be a contender for the most petty video made pertaining to this hobby.
If having fun is not the intended goal of your game, that's fine, but you're automatically disconnected from the number one goal of 99% of people in the hobby.
Here's some unsolicited advice, learn to edit.
Most petty video *yet*. Lmao, this series has just begun. Feel free to hate watch.
@Yekrep No thanks. Hate watching is not a good habit. Thankfully some dude timestamped the silliest whining in this vid.
Came for the perspective, got 2nd hand embarrassment.
@ and 1st pinned comment of shame. thanks for the engagement!
Wrong. That crap isn't a proper RPG to begin with. It's a shitty paper videogame and Matt Colville, despite being friend with Jim Murphy (who knows what RPG means) decided to milk his tourist fanbase ($150 minimum) instead of taking the opportunity of his tribune (500k followers) to educate them. He could have made a real alternative to WoTC. A meaningful mainstream alternative. The Tourist-Friendly Sandbox Ultimate Tool. His fanbase would have bought anything. But no... So I consider him a opportunistic hypocrite. He's a fraud.
@theeyewizard8288 have you tried finding a real problem to complain about?
When I first got into the hobby I really enjoyed Matt's Running The Game series, I still recommend it to people looking to run an adventure game for the first time. But then I saw the first couple of episodes of The Chain and it made me realise "really? This is what we look like when we're playing D&D?"
It's taken me awhile but I'm so glad that channels like this are trying to show an alternative, and give actual actionable advice on how to do it.
Thanks Crispy and I hope your tomorrow is a better day than today
It's a stark contrast isn't it? Thanks for the comment.
You hit the nail on the head - "is THAT what WE look like???"
I cherish the fact that nobody watches my table but the people at it. The observer effect is heavy in this world.
@joetucker5483 I agree. It isn't a hobby that works well as a performance for an audience. But perhaps there is an idea or two that will help where it matters most, in your own game with your gaming pals.
This feedback is on point! At this level of production, you certainly expect more! Fair and wonderful critique for sure.
This was such an interesting video. I personally have found Matt's advice really useful and enlightening when it comes tp ideas for my own game. Yet every time I try to watch their games I end up dropping them. And perhaps the lack of applying their own advice could play a huge part on that.
If anything. I appreciate the different views and perspectives because asba relatively new GM, it's really awesome to see what everyone has to say to realize what I want for my own games and players.
Im glad this video showed up in the Algo for me. Good day.
I'm happy to hear that this was helpful to you. I too often find myself in agreement with the advice videos. Sadly, it appears that there is a large gap between the advice and the actual practice.
There are a lot of actual plays out there that play really well and are very entertaining, I find watching them and learning from example is much better than listening to the guru-style advice videos.
Crispy is channeling Shonner in this video and I'm here for it.
Glad to have you here!
Greetings from Legion of Myth and from The Basic Expert & Associates: Attorneys at RAW. I appreciate you taking a moment in the video to highlight this SEVERE problem of Functional Illiteracy in the hobby. One of the biggest things that I have attempted to spread throughout the hobby, and amongst my friends like Ryan Howard is to RTFM (Read the F'n Manual). It bothers me when people approach this hobby as if reading were optional. RTFM. Do not worry about memorizing every word, either. You Read so that you know where you can Reference the material on the fly, and this in turn gives you Book Control to Recall information as you play the game. It is my belief that RTFM is the single most important FIRST step in this hobby, WELL before the "just have fun."
I agree completely. Learn the game, and everyone at that table agrees to play by that same game. It is not too much to ask that all participants have read the rules of play. Reading the rules can also improve the imagination that will come during play by providing a framework for how the fictional world behaves.
@@Tablerunner The argument that I constantly hear is, "Well, we just don't let the rules get in the way of our fun. If we don't know every single thing in the book, that is not going to stop us, because we are having fun."
And then they will spend HALF the session looking up rules and arguing over rulings.
People fail to realize that if you read the rules completely and understand the rules completely, the rules will then inform how you parse your actions in roleplay and the rules will fade into the background.
It seems you dare to carry the cross of Shonner. Be strong :)
@@studioleus I honestly don't know how he was able to do so many of these. It is rough.
@@Tablerunner Really miss Shonner. I used to email him links to some particularly egregious affronts to roleplaying lol. What you're doing here is definitely more constructive tho and I really do think it's needed. Its one thing to recognize that these "actual" plays are often performed with an audience in mind but you have to realize that this stuff gets emulated by most newer players in the hobby. They essentially learn how to "roleplay" from these kinds of actual play videos. I work in a game shop and see it firsthand and hear about it secondhand all the time. I've seen maybe one or two actual rpg sessions happen in store, the other 99% are essentially identical to stuff like the above.
@tomorrowwindow453 I miss him a lot. I'm not aiming to replace him as I don't think I could. But I do hope to put out an alternate view in the hope that a few people out there could benefit from the effort.
This is a cross we all must bear. TH-cam will die a very quick death if old men ever stop shouting at clouds. Shonner was the best, acerbic, angry, usually right. And best of all, if you responded back the same way he was fine with that.
@@Tablerunner Shonner wouldn't have watched more than 2 minutes.
People tend to play out of character when immersion would be too much effort for their mind, and being out of character does't help so its a vicious circle
Agreed.
15 minutes in and i can already tell that you have a fundamentally different idea for how dnd is "supposed" to be played. it doesnt matter what you would or wouldn't put up with with this table. this isnt your table and these arent your friends.
every single person I've ever seen play this game has played it differently and thats perfectly fine.
My feelings exactly, I started to get the feeling that the whole point of this video was to coach these players to do better and to me that goes against everything that playing roleplaying games are, if you want to knickpick about playstyles then comment about your own games and point out moments you wish you could play other way and teach us the audience through your own mistakes rather than trying to point out that everything they do is wrong because they don’t play like you would like them to play
I've only read one of your comments and I can already tell this hit close to home for you.
You are right about one thing though: it is fundamentally a different idea.
Some people play TTRPGs as an excuse to hang out with friends, drink beer, eat pretzels, and make pop culture references. These people might as well play Cards Against Humanity.
Some people play TTRPGs for the tactical challenges and wargame elements. These people would turn TTRPGs into pen-and-paper analog video games.
Some people play TTRPGs to have their GM tell them a story. These GMs should go write a book, and the players should go read one.
And then, there are those who recognize the unique, essential, and ideal feature of roleplaying games; the thing for which they are named: in-character immersive roleplay.
Recognizing that people do things differently does not preclude the possibility of there being a better way to do things. And if you are unwilling to make a value judgment and say one way is better or worse, you have condemned yourself to stagnation and mediocrity.
@@Yekrep It's not that deep bro
@@ub8886 lmao, I see you don't need any sour grapes
@@Yekrep Yep Yek Rep! 🙌
The Algo recommended me your video. This is a lesson in how NOT rpg.
Thanks for the video!
Glad that you found it, and I'm even more pleased that you enjoyed my unsolicited RPG advice! More is on the way.
@Tablerunner 🎉🎉
Hey Turaco!
@chevronred Hey Chev!
@RollForTuraco I'm picturing two old friends randomly meeting on a busy street. Hahaha! Glad that I played a small part facilitating this reunion.
I remember a video where Matt mentioned why he stopped streaming and he said he really didn't enjoy the stress of being live, and I think some of the players also were unsure about that too, so that must have been weighing on him. There is a reason he doesn't run a game anymore and I think it is uncharitable to use this as an example really. Plus I think it is cruel to insult the players, who are probably uncomfortable being filmed. These are just normal people, not actors like in CR.
The players look so bored and confused. If my players looked at me that way I would do some serious soul searching on my technique and system.
Really appreciate the comment DM Scotty. My hope is that some who watch these videos will be inspired to review their own habits.
We love EZD6 sir. It is an outstanding game.
@@Tablerunner Appreciate that and enjoy watching your sessions.
The only thing I can nitpick is that the Draw Steel rpg is pretty much finished and the final play test pack shows a complete game, before any kind of finalized layout of course. So you guys have to stop the "the game isn't finished yet" BS.
I can't argue anything else you talked about.
Thank you for pointing that out. I appreciate the clarification. I'm happy for the Kickstarter backers that they will have a product soon.
which is worse. If it wasn't finished there would be hope 😅
I dont have a clue as to what has happened in this session except for a fireball
Me neither. And I watched it three times.
@@Tablerunnerbless you
0:56 His game is based on the principle of "Trust me, bro, you'll love it."
Seems like a risky venture to me. Especially if I can't even trust him as a GM to stay with the game that we've agreed to play.
@@Tablerunner hopefully it won't just be vapourware and the backers will get something that isn't just a cobbled together Frankensteinian mess.
@myeartrumpet I'm told that the game is called Draw Steel and is mostly complete. I haven't tried the play test as I don't have any skin in that game.
@@Tablerunner I remember a debate over dice mechanics. They hadn't even settled on dice before kick-starting it... And may I say how lame and lacklustre the name "Draw Steel" is.
I think that name could use some more workshop time for sure.
Love this new series, Crispy!
Hey thanks Bacon!
Matt Colville has bemoaned producing his table's role playing sessions for online consumption during one of his recent streams. He gets it. Even in his streams, he just bebops from one stream of consciousness to the next. It's like sitting through an absentminded professor's class to get those sweet nuggets of knowledge that he drops every now and again.
Thank you Crispy. Thoughtful and direct.
Glad you enjoyed it!
The initiative rolling wouldn't be so bad if people had a system for tracking it. You would figure these would at least be good GAMES at this point, but it's guys that have played hundreds of sessions still waffling about a basic mechanic that's been in the game for like 40 years!
Derro can be so fascinating, too. Born cursed to be insane, sun fearing bodysnatchers. One of my players was playing a fairly powerful cleric clearing some out and pondered... insanity is an illness, I can heal it. And did so.
What does it look like to suddenly gain sanity if that's the kind of creature you are and the life you've lived? That was a hard hitting question from a silly fantasy game. And while I'm not against jokes IN CHARACTER, when you've seen what can come from these sessions and instead get "The fire, it burns!" heehee *giggling*... it gets old if that's all you seem to find.
I get frustrated when opponents are reduced to "generic bad guy #3" and a bag of hit points. Not evocative at all.
I've played Shadowrun where you roll every round for your initiative and that value fluctuates wildly and combat goes faster for me doing that than this.
This is why I've become such a fan of side-based initiative and pre-roll declarations. Basically AD&D 1e. Combined with a more abstract combat round (1 minute of action) as a DM its gives me more leeway to interpret the results of the declarations and subsequent rolls rather than the blow-by-blow procedure of something like 5e. And it actually adds some excitement to that single d6 initiative roll.
@tomorrowwindow453 I don't mind side based initiative either. Most of the time, as you can see in the games on my channel, we just stay in a turn order for the whole game.
@@tomorrowwindow453 I always liked WoD's initiative scheme, though it doesn't really fit 3D play. They would have you go through, from lowest initiative to highest, declaring your intent. That way, higher-initiative entities could react to what lower-initiative entities were telegraphing. Unfortunately, that means you're using a lot of "I intend to"s and "I want to"s
High-trust gaming is such a good mantra...
I think that it describes what we are trying to do very well.
I really enjoyed this video. You succinctly break down exactly what destroys immersion in RPGs.
I'm glad that you found it helpful. Not sure if I'd call an hour and a half unscripted rambling succinct, but thanks for the watch and comment!
A bit rough on Matt and the crew weren’t you?
Just a couple quick thoughts. O’D sorta joined the game unplanned, I’m not sure how familiar he is with playing (coming from memory of watching the Chain long ago). Lars was reading the description of the spell because Matt clearly said “sounds cool, I’m not sure what it does”. Seemed to me like everyone involved had an absolute blast playing this campaign.
Matthew has said in a livestream recently that running a game on the internet was a miserable experience and a failure.
Did he mention why?
@@Tablerunner If he did, it wasn't a memorable explanation, but he did say he would never do it again and he did argue with someone in chat about who gets to say it was a success or failure.
@@Tablerunner According to what I've heard in a few of his Twitch streams over the years, his players hated it. They didn't enjoy being on camera in general, supposedly.
The plan moving forward, according to what he last said, is to play in private and then do the campaign diaries as a replacement.
@@BrockStrongo Maybe it is because the internet exposed how badly their play was, and it destroyed the illusion that Matt knows what he is talking about.
@@KraftyMattKraft Surely he knows what he is talking about to some extent right? Like he is one of the most successful people in this space. He has run multiple massive crowdfunders. MCDM has a pretty large active community. Even if you don't agree with him he has gotten a lot of people including me to start running their own games.
BRUTAL! I want you to do one of my gameplay videos. If I can withstand the dressing down, I'm sure I'll learn lots!
It will be my pleasure.
@@Tablerunner Awesome! d20play is my youtube channel. All sorts of game systems to choose from. I'm always looking to get better.
Good on you sir. I'm the same way. Always looking for improvement.
@@d20play MAN! If we had more people with your attitude in the hobby, imagine what would happen.
Matt’s video is great…it’ll encourage new GM’s to go “I can do better than this” and start GMing.
Inspiration! Yup.
MCDM Draw Steel: The Auto-Scrolling-Cinematics-Quick Time Event-Auto Hit-Button Smashing Combo-Paper Video Game! Because... No time to fuck around, right?
You absolutely should keep making videos on this, the audience/youtube certainly thinks so judging by your metrics!
It was a great video and you're speaking to the people who cringe after seeing a lot of actual plays. Some of the most watched seem to be just like watching a bunch of grown up children talking over each other or long drawn out boring scenes.
You have a real nice opportunity to double down on this "unsolicited advice" series. I think if you tighten it up you'll be at 1k and monetized within 3-4 months or less. Go for it!
I appreciate your encouragement!
Everyone say it with me: "Anna, why are you talking? It's not your turn!"
This was a far more helpful video than I realized. I'll be careful about these bad habits in future games that I run.
I hope, from the bottom of my black heart, that a 13 subscribers channel, with 457 uploaded videos, gives you an unsolicited advice, regarding one of your actual 4D plays.
I'll give The Horizon a try (not the critique, I need 12 subs to reach 13, not to mention to produce 457 videos, only a watch). I like EZD6!
1:10 "this is the last session that is public" Nope. The Chain of Acheron goes to Ep. 27. It stopped due to the pandemic. They are in a playlist on the MCDM youtube channel.
8:50 "Matt, who are you talking to?" Partially the audience, partially the players. Anyone that might care that he's not rolling a bunch of dice for the enemies. His players had critiqued him before about how if he knows a combat is coming he could pre-roll initiative so now he's saying that he did do that this time.
9:17 "don't do that" There is no reason for you to say that he shouldn't play the game his way. Some players take a little while longer whether the dice rolled off the table or they just weren't good at math, it's fine to get the players initiative roll by who is ready.
11:00 "I don't like her response which is to giggle". Dude, you would stress me out if I wasn't allowed to giggle. Normal human reactions aren't allowed?
13:40 "O'D, he's playing leech. He says what his character is doing" No, O'D is playing Leech who has a familiar, an imp named Odie. He asked the DM what his familiar was doing. O'D is a new player and was getting clarification of what his familiar does. Odie is not Leech's chosen familiar. There is a force that has intercepted Leech's connection to his patron. As such his familiar is only partially compliant with Leech's wishes. Phil joins in because he enjoys the characters and everyone is having fun. O'D didn't lose control, Phil just enjoyed the description Matt had given enough to parrot it while waiting. Which is fine.
14:40 "you don't have to play like this." It seems like you don't find it acceptable that they do play this way. You're policing their fun like it comes with strict rules that must be obeyed.
17:40 "Ep. 12 Why are we still talking about this?" Because this ability has not been used yet in those 12 episodes. Characters change, level up, and if you haven't used something before, or haven't used it in a while, you forget the specifics.
18:38 "Tom, not your turn" He's helping. He SHOULD speak up if it's to help.
19:00 "people talking over one another" Yep. It's fine to speak to each other while not being the one who's figuring out the spell effect. People are capable of thinking out a problem while other people in the room are talking to someone else.
19:38 "Why is Lars talking now?" He's obviously helping Anna. It is not wrong to talk to Anna when helping her. If Anna told Lars to back off, then Lars should stop. If Anna appreciates the help, Lars is doing the right thing.
20:07 "it won't matter" It does, see the 1:22:45 comment
22:00 "really, were going to read the card" Yes, Matt has asked for clarification as he has multiple editions of D&D in his head so he doesn't have the nuance of each spell in perfect recall.
23:35 "everyone's paying attention right" There's a difference between paying attention and remembering which one it is when they all move around the board next turn. Markers help us keep track of things, especially when the seal would be visible to the characters so they wouldn't need to rely on memory. I will also be trying to plan my next turn while others are taking theirs in order to speed up mine. If I'm counting squares or something, I might not catch everything someone else did on their turn.
24:30 "we don't care where your toys were bought" You are critiquing that he is comfortable enough around his friends to vocalize his internal thought. Given that many people are also watching the stream and Matt pushes more people to try and be DMs, where he gets his stuff is info that people ask for. It is reasonable to say that now isn't the time though.
29:44 "Why is there any question as to who is next?" There isn't. It's the enemy turn. Matt has multiple enemies to run so he needs to figure out what they each do. He doesn't have the luxury that the rest of the players have of determining the next turn while others are taking theirs so it takes him longer to run an enemy's turn. One of the complaints that Matt has voiced is that the spells are not described in the stat block of the enemies. So he was likely considering what spells to use and whether he can get out of the Silence.
35:30 "you have responsibility to play your character" He was, it's just that he's farther from the board so he said what he wanted to do and Tom is helping him move the character into position because Tom is closer to reach the board. They are talking about whether the space Tom moved Leech is where O'D wanted it. Copper isn't involved.
36:10 "why are we getting exposition right now?" Matt is filling the empty space while O'D and Tom get Leech where O'D wants him.
36:30 "did he say he examines the environment?" No, the character would have just had eyeballs and already seen this information. I would find it ridiculous to say that your character can't see something unless you ask.
36:50 "The way I would suggest you do that" You are literally nitpicking his word choice when he asked how tall the ceiling was. If your going to do that, I couldn't feel like I would have any agency at your table.
39:40 "Wanker #2" I don't understand what problem you have with this. You didn't state how you would identify the enemy, and numbering seems to help them, so I don't know what you think is wrong here. It's not like the enemies were given different names or anything, so what do you want them to say to make sure everyone knows which one? I usually use chess pieces for enemies that I don't have the proper mini for, and I have marked on each chess piece a different number/letter/symbol to make call outs easier. Immersion shouldn't get in the way of playing the game. If you are so strict about immersion that the gameplay is in the way, you probably want LARP instead of a table top game.
40:55 "how would he know they are heavily armoured?" By seeing them wearing armour...
43:25 "Matt, head in the game" He responding to a joke from one of his players. They are friends, it's fine to share and respond to jokes. If this was a professional team you would expect them to be as serious as you are wanting, but they are just friends. They are having relaxed play time that allows for side comments.
46:00 This is not a violation of trust as the whole campaign is homebrew. They explicitly signed up for homebrew monsters. They don't know what all the monsters can do, because why would they? Their characters certainly wouldn't. My experience is that most DMs adjust the enemies to fit the place they want them in their game. Encounter balancing is standard. (ex. if you need a goblin but it's too low level to challenge the party, make a goblin chief with better stats to throw in there)
51:24 "no cheerleading". Why would you (a person not at their table) think you should tell them not to support their friends' success? It's automatic to be happy that your friend succeeded and a simple "nice" is not going to cause problems.
57:25 Your complaining that not everyone knows how everyone else's stuff works. That's not their character, I don't expect them to know how it works. Also, it was just mentioned that Boots is only just now a bard. This wasn't something he used to have, it's new.
If I was running Boots, I would have how it works on a card that I pass to the player when I give the buff instead of table talk. If there were any questions then it's totally reasonable to explain it as needed.
58:00 She's already played a bard... so why you reading it?" She literally just said "its been a while", that's why he's reading it. Also, if Boots hands out inspiration to another person that hasn't played a bard they wouldn't know how it works. So best to read it. It also helps Tom make sure he knows how it works if he was unsure.
58:36 "Why are you talking?" They are reminiscing about how good Anna's bard was because it was brought up. A shared fun experience that makes them happy isn't a bad thing to take a moment to smile and laugh.
59:20 Multiple sessions... "they are all like this" Upon realizing this, you should realize that this isn't a problem. His players haven't left, they are smiling and laughing. Some of those players have played in multiple campaigns with Matt as the DM. They enjoy having fun this way. It's crazy to think that they are wrong for doing so.
1:08:55 (You trusting the player is responsible for remembering). Everyone is fallable and it is obvious that the player forgot. This isn't a breaking of trust if a person just forgets.
1:11:00 "it's all about the fun. I'm just not convinced" WTF. You are literally critiquing people having fun with their friends as if there was a wrong way to do that. They never say that you must play like them. Why would you say they are wrong for not playing like you. It really feels like your trying to advocate in favor of the "meat out of a can" approach. You keep saying that their friendly banter is a problem but I would see it as the flavor and presentation of non-canned meat. Your drill sergeant approach of not talking at all if it's not your turn sounds more like the flavorless canned meat.
1:20:20 "are you checking your phone" Some groups send messages through the phones that the other players wouldn't be privy to. Matt asked O'D if he had his phone earlier, this is probably why. Also, I wouldn't expect my players to ignore their family while we play, at all. The game comes second to real life.
1:22:25 "you are not allowed" Go fuck yourself. You don't exist at this table, stop acting like they have to follow your rules. Phil made a joke about Judge's turn's taking a while as part of friendly banter. Friends are able to give critique that also applies to themselves.
1:22:45 "how does he know that" For someone who has a lot of complaints of not paying attention, maybe you should remember. 2 of the enemy are spellcasters, they have a different kit, that would be obvious (no halberd and heavy armour). The player doesn't need to say "I look at the enemy", they can just see them as their character would without vocalizing it. Because they are spellcasters, they are not just bags of hitpoints, they work differently (different AC, abilities, etc.). Same reason they silenced the gong at the beginning, it might do something other than just hit them.
1:29:40 "isn't an optimal use of their time" Hanging out with friends isn't about optimization. You make fun sound worse than work and that anyone having fun a different way is doing it wrong. So many people watched The Chain of Acheron and backed Draw Steel because this is exactly the kind of fun we wanted and enjoy. I've been at tables that had more side conversation than I wanted but it wasn't wrong. If I had tried to make them change to my prefered level of side conversation, I would have been wrong because I'm not their boss. The only thing to do is to find a table that you enjoy and let others have fun their way.
Matt's Running The Game series is about how far more people are capable of running the game than they think. His game being loose and fun helps people see that it's fine if you don't have absolutely everything that could come up memorized. It's fine if you have to ask questions. It's fine to not take the game too seriously. Take what you enjoy and put it in your game, including chatting with friends.
What you advicate for sounds like it would ruin the game for me. You keep objecting to what I saw as normal fun. (The players also apparently thought so as they were laughing and some have played with Matt in multiple campaigns.) I would feel like if I dared to have fun at your table I would be risking your ire and therefor be too stressed to actually enjoy myself. You want more focus, memorization, and silence than I would ever ask of my players when we are trying to relax by playing a game.
Exactly all of this. I feel like combat drags in my games sometimes and I understand wanting to speed it up, but this joyless “no talking unless it’s your turn” authoritarian vibe doesn’t sound like a fun hobby at all. If my friends treated me like this I would not play games with them.
Your idea of a good ttrpg session is like a toddlers idea of good food. You go ahead and enjoy your microwaved dino nuggies with ketchup.
@@Yekrep because I don’t agree with the uploader? I haven’t even said what my idea of a good session is.
Being so angry that you feel compelled to film a 1.5 hour long video whining and complaining about how other people chose to have fun 5 years ago sounds more in-line with a toddler. This video was about 1% advice, and 99% angrily complaining.
One of the reasons I watched this was because Coville came across a little weird and bitter in his live streams compared to his scripted videos. The comments had me excepting some huge flaw in Coville’s character. But nope he’s just having FUN with HIS friends at HIS table. He doesn’t remember every spell (who does) and he doesn’t force players to remain quiet while they are enjoying themselves or assisting the other players. This video made me feel much better about Coville.
I think some of what the uploader is saying is useful. I wish my games ran faster and am always looking for ways to speed up combat. I may even take some of what he said and use it at my table. But IMO the way he says it is not helpful advice. It’s a bitter gate-keepery rant about enforcing your own personal standards for how fun must be had. This video is far more childish than a little goofy banter at an in-optimal time. He sounds like he’s that viral Reddit rules post.
@BrianKyleMcCord and here you are writing your bitter essay response.
Finally a concrete advice video
Thanks! I hope something I said will be useful to you.
@Tablerunner You did for sure ! I'm writing a video about that (in french), yours is just a gold mine of inspiration
La belle langue française. J'approve!
I love Matt's Running the Game videos. I enjoyed watching The Chain, but mostly for seeing something different. I think Matt is fairly open about the fact that he's not actually the best GM. After watching this, I was shocked at how bad I thought it was.
To be fair to Matt, this was a game posted 5 years ago. He could run games much differently now. My hope is to show some common things that happen in games (even from the professionals) that could be changed to the betterment of the experience of all participants.
I remember when The Chain first came out and it killed his channel for me.
I wonder if he will post some actual play sessions of his new game?
Was literally the first game I watched where I discovered that these supposed great game masters are just mouth pieces instead of actual awesome dungeon masters.
I sincerely hope your channel hits as many eyes as possible. Let the masses know more enjoyment and satisfaction can be obtained from playing. You just have to put in the effort.
Thanks Josh! I appreciate your encouragement.
Yo Josh! Haven’t seen you around in a while, hope you’re doing well.
@ Thank you Tyler. Hope all is good on your end as well!
15:31 this is the effect of having an audience. Everyone thinks that they have to entertain the viewers so there is this irritating babbling.
Yes, and this is why I struggle with RPG sessions presented as "a show" like Critical Roll and all its imitators.
9:47 the stupid voices really grate on my nerves.
Voice acting can be a distraction. It isn't necessary for good roleplay. But I think you are talking about something else. Hahaha.
Matt talks... Well because hes a Star! 😂
He talks far too often and for far too long.
Wow. It really is the same old shit ain't it? Same way they've been playing since they were 14 years old. You'd think they would in 10-20 years in the hobby realize they were missing that "something" in the game. Actual roleplaying solves so many problems,
Actual roleplay is the solution!
0:35 You feel better after shouting down a well?
it's pretty satisfying
Sometimes!
48:00 This is insane to me.
Oh, Matt, I have a +38 to my perception now! You didn't know? Well, I thought as long as we were using rules from other editions, I'd use the skill system from 3.5 instead. And a couple of feats.
Do you think he would be ok with this? Somehow, I think not.
That part got under my skin immediately. High trust games people. We want high trust games.
The whole campaign is Homebrew. So when Matt pulls out a homebrewed monster, it is not a violation of trust, it's explicitly what the players signed up for.
@ That sort of thing is best decided beforehand in a session 0. With a concrete document as to what is and isn’t homebrewed or fair game.
When everything is up to GM fiat, you can’t have trust at all. That’s why the rules are there in the first place.
@ I just hard disagree. The trust is that the GM will not throw in some overpowered bullshit or instakill nonsense. Every enemy is adjusted during session prep to make it appropriate to what will fit the circumstances and challenge the player's character. (ex. if you need a goblin but it's too low level to challenge the party, make a goblin chief with better stats to throw in there) If the character doesn't have the enemy stat block memorized, it makes sense that the enemy can have abilities you don't know about. If the player does have the stat block memorized, even better reason to change it so as to avoid metagaming and keep it interesting. D&D has always been about homebrewing spells, monsters, and magic items. That's where a lot of the legacy material comes from.
@@R1bbaJack I'm not arguing against homebrew, I'm arguing against changing the rules on the fly. But then, I also don't agree that this situation was at all about balance.
This was about a DM trying to put one over on his players for daring to succeed. And when you do that, THAT is what violates the player trust. He didn't pull some monster stat block out because it made sense to be in the encounter, he pulled a single "gotcha!" out to *win* the encounter.
So, I'm about ten minutes into this video, and so far the only thing that has really been said is "I don't like how Colville ran this session and I don't understand why their game got the support it did." If there's any substantive criticism, it's lost. I've never seen any of your videos, so I have no reason to waste any more of my time to maybe see a substantive critique. And to be clear, I have my critiques of Colville, but you have yet to make any.
If you spend time consuming the content this guy has created, you will learn the lessons he is imparting. If you don't put in the time, you don't get to complain. This is not structured or promising to be an upfront summary. It's a play-by-play critique. Your criticism is bad faith.
@@hawkname1234 People should stop throwing around "bad faith" without actually knowing what it means. I gave ten minutes of my time, which is more than most people would. As I said in my original comment, it may be the case that he has substantive criticism, but if it's buried in more than ten minutes of lacking critique, don't expect anyone to watch it. This whole comment reeks of "The game gets good after 50 hours, I promise". Maybe, but don't expect anyone to get that far. It's a poor excuse.
Maybe tiktok or youtube shorts are more your speed...
@@crybabysad I never said anything against long form content. I prefer it, actually. But if I'm going to commit an hour plus to a video, I want to know that my time isn't going to be wasted. Given that those first ten minutes were complete non-arguments, I'm going to assume it is. As I said, if there were good arguments in there, there is no indication of that, and putting them behind at least ten minutes of nothing does them a disservice.
Gaming with Democracy, Ive seen this style before!
Gaming with Democracy? Are you referring to every player wanting to play everyone else's character? Definitely a lot of that in this game.
@@Tablerunner Or at least voting on what you should do!
@calvanoni5443 I loathe that.
@@Tablerunner Same mostly, occasionally it could be funny.
Yes he memtions the miniatures because hes merchandising.
I figured as much.
@@Tablerunner I see what you did there :)
What is he merchandising? Someone else's kickstarter?!
@@Mezzer92 Considering that they then after the big KS,they brought out dice & minis for big money, I don't trust anything he recommends.
@@calvanoni5443 I honestly can't figure out what you are referring to here. They did a smaller kickstarter for custom dice to go along with the new game. I know they give away stls for minis but I am not even sure they sell minis. I am not sure what selling products as a company has to do with Matt mentioning a cool kickstarter he backed. It seems like you just really don't like MCDM
To me, reality is stranger than fiction, again. The guy has taken millions to design a game, but still plays like this. Designing should start with play-testing, and a lot of it! And a long session every single week, with different people, gms, etc.
It's crazy to talk like this about something you clearly haven't looked into at all. They not only have testers they pay to playtest material before it is public but they also release playtest packets every few months for patrons and backers to run and give feedback on. They literally have thousands of testers.
@ What you said proves my point that C. is a businessman and not remotely a great gm or roleplayer. He has delegated the actual playing of "his" game to others. And he himself is a talking head, marketer, and perhaps boardgame designer (not sure there).
This game and what you said proves it. As a boardgame it is perhaps fine. As a guy who sets himself up as an rpg guru, what happens around the table here is pathetic.
@ imagine a golf guru who couldn't swing a club to save his life.
@ Your complaint was the they weren't testing and I explained how they actually have a robust testing system. You literally say "different people and different gms". Matt and MCDM also run their own internal games as well when testing. As far as the stream the reality is this was an experiment for MCDM in running a game live and Matt has said he wasn't happy with it. None of them enjoyed playing while being recorded. Lastly to discount someone who has gotten so many more people to start playing and more importantly running games of their own just because he isn't great at running an actual play livestream is crazy.
@ rpg guru is awesome, except when someone is looking. Also, all of his players are shit and dont know the rules. But he has lots playing the game. He's really great as a rpg guru. Except at playing the game. Really? And you think you won the argument on a technicality? Get out of here.
I wonder if Grand Theft Auto Online Roleplayers stay in character longer than this?
It's just Board Game night. That's what they are doing.
The Chain? More like the pain.
Glad to see someone picking up Shonner’s torch.
I’ve been wondering when D&D became a spectator sport.
It feels like Colville was pressured into recording his game sessions thanks to critical role (he knows those guys) and social media. He’s very good when he’s reading from a teleprompter; so it seems like he’d be good in real life. But he really drops off when he’s live. He actually sucks as a DM and cannot put into practice what he preaches.
One would assume that the DM would know the rules of the game; even going so far as to read the rulebook (yes I know nobody can remember everything). That's the first thing I do when I plan on running a game. I’m happy to give concessions for new player/DMs and new unfamiliar rule systems but still knowing the basics is 100% necessary.
This combat is dragging on because the players don’t know the rules, nobody knows how to roleplay and have no respect for each other and are constantly interrupting each other. Money Matt isn’t helping because he doesn’t seem to care that the players don’t know the rules and he’s encouraging rude behavior by engaging in it. That’s not even getting into him springing a new mechanic on the players without warning. Which ultimately wouldn’t have mattered because they wouldn’t have known it was taken from a previous edition; except that Matt had to open his fat mouth and say something. Which I’m sure the only reason he did is because he knows he’s on camera and someone on the internet would complain about it. Whenever someone says "combat takes too long" this is entirely the problem and is never ever the mechanics.
Anna is totally metagaming; partly because she wants to win (she's going to) but also because she's board and probably doesn't trust the Dm to give her the information she seeks. I "speed combat" up by revealing "privileged information" to the players. “Yeah, the ogre has 16 AC and 40 HP”. That makes it easier on me to run combat, because now the player’s can do the math themselves and figure out if they hit or whatever by themselves and just let me know. “I rolled a 16, and did 12 points of damage”. Is so much easier on the DM and faster than waiting for the players to ask if they hit. It actually curbs negative metagaming because now they already have the useful information they’re seeking. It can be more immersive as now they can just say “i run the ogre through with my rapier and deal… 12 damage”.
anyway that was painful. Crispy, you are truly a river unto your people.
Great comment. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.
New drinking game. Every time Crispy watches a Coville live play take a drink when he says "it's not your turn".😂 See you all under the table. The sad part is Crispy has a point here.
Liver damage game. Looking forward to finishing our Cthulhu game sir!
@@Tablerunner me too!
Colville's ADD is one of the reasons why I have absolutely zero trust in his ability to deliver a coherent, usable game system.
35:47:00 ... Roleplaying in a Game with Matt Colville? ...wait...nevermind.
Exactly.
Please do a Relics & Rarities Unsolicited advice!
Thanks for the suggestion! I'll add that to my list.
Thanks for bridging it into consideration! It's higher production and stars a celebrity guest. The DM Deb is definitely guilty of playing others characters and I want to see what else you might pick up 🤷
@Tablerunner "Live Play Example: Shadowdark RPG" is another video you might want to check out. The GM is the creator of Shadowdark.
I think I may have seen that one. Thanks for the suggestion.
@Tablerunner Happy to help if I can. May Shonner's ghost be with you 🙏
They look like they're having fun playing the game, and they're streaming it because they can, not because the audience has paid them to be entertained.
You look like you're miserable.
You're not a customer and you don't enjoy what you're watching. You should find something better to do with your time.
Crispy is doing just fine, and Matt's session was clearly nonfunctional.
You will learn nothing if you're not willing to listen to unsolicited advice.
complains about unsolicited advice while taking the time to comment unsolicited advice.
@@crybabysadunsolicited? This video is clearly a cry for help by a professional hater. He's begging the audience to agree with him that someone is having fun wrong. My advice is just for him to be normal
1:20:56 this is the point they finally broke him. 🙂
Crispy's a glutton for punishment. Look at the seething expression on his face.
Yes. You are completely correct. Now on to the next game that will likely be just as painful. Hahaha!
This part is brilliant, too. Because no one knows the rule, and then Chat tells them the rule, and then Matt has either the complete lack of self-awareness or the massive brass balls to start arguing with Chat about a rule he doesn't know.
@kdolo1887 Hubris. Pure hubris.
I refuse to believe those are experienced players, especially the GM. That was like less than newbie level, was like "We just got our first Corebook and we are learning how to Ttrpg",which there's nothing wrong with, but that's not what was suppose to be presented on that video.
One hour and a half and there was ZERO roleplaying, that was purely a board game, roll dices and move squares, that's all. You describing how the canned meat falls from the can had ten times more roleplaying that their whole session .
Hahaha! You can tell that I enjoyed that part. I really like introducing new people to the hobby. They don't have a bunch of bad habits to unlearn.
I honestly stay away from most of the "GM advice" stuff or how to do this or that. Mainly because its either poorly done for the most part of adding extra systems into overpacked games alot of the time more so with the likes of Modern D&D (something I heavily dislike beyond what I can say on TH-cam) Started off playing 4E myself we ended up doing several games at once had a COC game as well as a Pathfinder 1E game 4E and Patherfinder have totally different feel and alot of systems are about feel of things IMO. Colville got a ton of people to get on his project I think it was way!! more than he expected as well tbh. But what he had to show wasnt anything beyond "here is a cool idea" they have changed the base system several times I think 3 times now. How many small projects out there that are new systems have people ran themselves for many years, super well play tested and they decide to try to show it off to the world? Yeah a hell of alot and many are great tbh, others do reskins of well knowns systems and they also work well. But it seems like they (Covilles people) havent a clue what they were doing for most of the project.
at first i was quite put off by your tone, but then as the video went on i went from annoyed at you to shoked by how *atrocious* the game on display is. this is how the dude i learned GMing from runs his games? this is the game of someone that sells their not yet finished rpg as being "tactical and cinematic"? saw neither
Phil seems to think that, because he's a fighter, that his turns take no time at all. It doesn't matter what the reality is, the memes make it so.
Frustrating.
So much out of character talking and pointless banter. The only thing missing here is the Pizza Hut box on the table and somebody occasionally taking a bite out of their slice while making a bad pun. This is fine 1D gaming (playing the equivalent of a board game while joking around eating pizza) but it sure as heck is not a ROLE PLAYING GAME. Literally zero in character role playing. I'm sure they're having fun but they misrepresent what they're doing and people take this for real role playing and generally decide that is not for me. Many of them would love the idea if they saw a 4D game, and new people would come into our hobby.
I think games where roleplay is largely absent tend to chase new people away. So hopefully I can share a few ideas to bring roleplay back.
@Tablerunner totally agree. And the sad part is it's the more thoughtful people who would be a great addition to our hobby who tend to just look at this and go no thank you
Do you actually define roleplaying in the video? Was looking for timestamps but couldn't find them.
My first DM had us playing in what I now realize was a low fantasy homebrew setting. The game was so fun immersive and serious. I started reading Conan and watching documentary’s about the Bronze Age cities, just so my character felt more authentic. Every game after with other DMs has been like the one in this video, which is confusing. Players literally write two page backstories, just to not talk in character or know what’s on their character sheet- and be rewarded for doing so by the dm.
@@just-a-purple-orkI'm sure he does in a live stream somewhere. Other channels like Reactionary Principle Gaming and Black Lodge Games are great as well.
I don't quite like the general vitriolic energy that pervades this video, but I'm with you with all your criticisms, other than the one about the spell from another edition; the enemies have accesss to a miriad of spells, classes and skills that are not on the lists of the PCs. As long as it follows the agreed current edition rules (and most things are easily converted), it just means that the players need to adapt to a new unforseen danger. It's also a great way to make the world seem bigger and uknown.
The problem isn't just that it is from another edition. It's also that Matt changed his creature, mid-fight, to specifically counter his player. Matt is punishing his players and changing the rules to do so.
@@Yekrep I think that it would be absurd if he changed the creature mid-fight (would be crazy to have a spell sheet printed and prepared); I do believe that he made that monster in order to counter his players concentration spells, wich is perfectly reasonable encounter design (keeping in mind that you must not abuse this practice).
@Bri0tera Do you know if the group decided in advance to use rules from other games or editions? In my advice I said that if this was known in advance (that other edition rules may be used), then there is nothing wrong. However, if this was not known, then it violates the trust that players and GM will play by the same game. I want high trust games so that all can assume that everyone is using the rules properly, without having to state the rule.
@@Tablerunner Look, this reasoning is a little bit far out I think. Do you ask for consent from your players when you're designing every not by the book element in your games? If a rulebook doesn't have a rule for a sliding door that farts fire, do you send a private message to every player asking if they are ok with you making up a rule (following the edition's guidelines and challenge numbers of course) for it? No, no you don't. He essentially made up an ability for a monster, the question is only "Is it fun? Is it fair?", and we can talk about that.
@@Bri0tera Matt Colville got caught red-handed metagaming against his own players. lmao
I've stopped watching Colville's channel shortly after his Dune videos. I generally enjoyed his Running the Game playlist, but have since grown past it playing with my own consistent group of friends, and playing a ton of TTRPGs beyond 5e.
Seeing your feedback, I'm interested in what you'd think of this clip of Jon Bernthal being taught "DND" by Deborah Ann Woll - it's an 8 min clip, but only the first half covers what it means to play a roleplaying game. Although the games I've seen her run are more along the lines of Critical Role and other Millennial tier TV shows, I think she does a great job with presentation and immersion for Jon in that clip.
I'm not really a fan for calling a roll for every single action or aspect of a character, but the clip does a decent job of showcasing how a back & forth exchange can happen, more so than these shows featuring a series of "comedic" quips and jabs alongside tangential questions and conversation that make the game more of a backdrop rather than a showpiece.
I'm familiar with the video that you reference and will put it in my backlog of free advice videos.
20 mins in. Yup. It’s awful. But how can I avoid this? If I fast-forward, what advice would you give me? I don’t want to be like Matt but maybe I am… can you help? 😢
I try to give a few concrete examples. Perhaps ensure that players avoid speaking when it is not their turn? Thanks for watching.
As well as Crispy, follow other channels that practice immersive-style / 3d / 4d gameplay
Trill
FilltheThrill
28mmrpg
Dice tales
Reactionary principle gaming
Black Lodge Games
Tomb of Lime
Shonner
I really like Matt's older videos. Very informative. And he has published wonderful books, that show how much he cares about the game. But I agree that this is the most confusing session I can think of. If you stream a video at least try to really entertain your audience and present something immersive. I've been on a stream or two and I am far from a great entertainer but at the very least I try to play with my co-players to present a product. The Chain series wasn't really that. Then again afaik his players weren't really comfortable playing live on the stream. It was an experiment.
That's fair.
These people have a hard time learning the rules because they've changed 90% of them at one point or another. Mind you, they only know one system, you'de think they could manage that much.
Very little trust between player and GM possible in this game because no one appears to know the rules that are being used.
It's weird to talk so negatively about a kickstarter that you don't know anything about. MCDM has had multiple massively successful kick starters with great content coming from each. People backed the Draw Steel campaign because they know the type of products MCDM makes are of the highest quality. Also Draw Steel is already content complete not still "trying to find a core mechanic"?
Also I cannot imagine playing a game where you DM. No one is allowed to joke around, talk on other peoples turns, new players be damned. Not every group wants a super serious game.
The worst part is man I agree with some of your ideas, combat can be more roleplayish, and it's better if people know their characters, but you come off as such a prick. You obviously know the game and have a point of view which is great but if you were kinder about your advice you would reach more people.
Lastly, feels weird to constantly be telling the woman to shut up, maybe she spoke more but idk feels bad man.
womp womp
I think at some point they stopped doing actual plays because it wasn't as much fun for them. They don't enjoy trying to perform for the audience. I think it kind of shows in this episode. There's too much explaining and downtime while addressing the audience and being entertaining. They are trying to connect with the audience but it isn't connecting for me, and clearly you haha.
I agree. Playing an RPG as a performance for a viewing audience is a bad idea and results in a poorer experience for the players and GM.
While I love the live chats, I think doing these solo helps focus on the issues.
@@kdolo1887 I also think that more people watch recorded content than live streams. I do miss the interaction with chat though.
@@Tablerunner A good format might be to do the pre-recorded, then have a lifestream after we've all had a few days to watch it and then we can just REALLY rip into it.
@kdolo1887 that's an interesting option. I'll give that some thought. I'm getting so many of these to watch now, I don't know if I'll have time to return to the same game for another go at it.
@@TablerunnerThere's far too much bad RP out there to get through it all. What you're talking about is a punishment rivaling Sisyphus'.
Wow! I never watched one of Matt's live plays before...what a hack!
Shocking for sure.
At most 25% of the words spoken in Matt's game served the game. The rest was all fat that should have been trimmed.
Imagine how much more could happen without the 75% of needless fluff!
Adept Austin and I have experienced incredibly fast games with TONS of roleplay since we switched to a 1-on-1, 3d/4d style.
They are friends, they are going to have banter. If you want to speed run your games that's fine but it would be unreasonable for you to say that they are having fun the wrong way.
I had a different comment, but after watching for a short while, I realised you were right. I think you were driving while angry. Anyone can be overly critical of someone for their opinion on how they should game, but I found myself scratching my head at some of your critiques, especially around 42-50 minutes in.
I think ultimately I disagree with the assertion that you can't bring things from other editions into your game, or, I'll go even beyond, and say that I feel like you are allowed to bring in mechanics into the game from entirely different games too. If you bring it up in the middle of the game, that's fine too. You can discuss it with the players after the game if they have an issue, and from what I know about his players, they had zero issue with it.
I agree with you that they didn't play the way you like to play, and they also played the game in a way I probably wouldn't have played, but I saw that so many of your issues were more... ideological doesn't seem to be the right word, but it might be more correct than personal.
After seeing the comments on the video, yours and the other commenters, I think ideological seems more accurate. I'm looking at your videos and their titles and so many of them seem to be right up my alley, so I hope that I'm wrong about that.
Matt changed his NPC, mid combat, to specifically counter his player's spell using a spell that wasn't in the agreed upon rules. Matt is punishing his player.
@@Yekrep Absolutely unforgivable. That should be a video all by itself.
His games are ALL boring af. Watch his other stuff. He never puts into practice what he preaches. They aren’t gamers, they are tourists
You've touched on the reason why I've selected these games in particular. These are from big names on TH-cam that are quick with advice of their own. Do they implement what they preach? We will see.
Mathfinder! Yeah, that's the game. 😂
His play sessions absolutely tank his credibility with me. This is not good D&D, why would I want his advice?
I look forward to seeing a game from a big RPG advice TH-camr where they practice what they preach. Don't laugh, it could exist.
Same for me, I DMed my first session from Matt's advice and watched a lot of his 2018/2019 stuff, then I started to watch this game and by episode 5, I think, I was just so dead bored I stopped watching any Matt Covile stuff. I even drew and epic He-Man style fanart cover for the Chain, cause back then I was a big fan.
@TARMHeLL How is your own game going? Are you still the DM?
If only. 🤣
I knew that you would catch that offhand comment!
I cackled out loud at that part
I gave up watching Matt's games after like two sessions. None of the players really looked like they were enjoying themselves. I remember watching the first episode of this particular game and one of the players lost their character like permanently early and it just seemed really damn awkward. This is the guy everyone seems to worship as a masterclass in D&D Dungeon-Mastering. I really do not think he practices what he preaches, clearly.
Its not really a game. More of a clown show with dice rolling and Matt as the Ringmaster.
That's how my wife describes it also. She asks the really hard questions like, "Why aren't they roleplaying their characters?" And "Where are they?"
@@Tablerunner LOL. "Where are they?" Got me good.
The way you judge them for crosstalk and OOC talk makes it feel like an exam rather than a game. They’re supposed to know the answers by now, right? I think most players would actually enjoy the game less if you demand discipline from them.
It’s really not that hard though. It’s like the difference between a kids martial arts class and one for adults. It’s ok if you’re there to goof off as a kid but you end up getting nothing done. And obviously frustrate those who are there to advance the game.
Is there any hope of Matt correcting his or his players lowsy gaming. No. His Ego is Gigantic from what ive seen, thats what the downfall of Popularity can generate.
The curse of celebrity.
I watch half of this last night, now im watching the other half. This is an awful Game session!
Try watching it three times. Awful. I do it for the people.
@Tablerunner You are a Champion! 🏆🥇🥇🥇
But I also Dislike Matt intensely, he's like a Televangelist of Gaming!
Hey Crispy.. I guess I'd rather play than be a spectator because this was hard to watch! Also, you don't give away secrets or abilities of the enemies you control to players who didn't ask about or can clearly see. 🤣
Boston John! Thanks for watching.
Wait wait wait, so you're cool with the made up characters in the world having unique complex lives and personalities in which they have different interests, but if a gm runs their game in way which is less serious then you, then actually they're some kind of charlatan? Do you not see the hypocrisy there?
Less serious? I think you meant nonfunctional.
The lady is the worst player is my vote!
Hard to say. I am particularly focused on Matt as he is the one who gives advice to others. She does interrupt others a lot. Potentially an artifact of the "show" aspect of this game.
@Tablerunner Matt's one of the worst DMs.
Blowing on the dice didn't seem to improve the session. That's for sure.
This is analysis is nonsense. Watch Colville other material and realize that what you are looking at is an amateur home game. Despite whatever staw man argument you want to present about what another GM's games should be, you have no idea what you're talking about.
Good point! Matt Colville is an amateur unworthy of the mantle Dungeon MASTER! Dungeon Amateur is more like it!
This comment is nonsense. Colville is giving DMing advice and THIS is his game? Come on, man.
Was this video needed? No. Was he wrong? Also, no.
This is weird. A 90 min video complaining that other people are having fun wrong. Not everyone plays ttrpgs the same and that's okay.