Irene, could you do a series on how narcissitic abuse wreaks havoc on the nervous system and how to disentagle onesself from this constant onslaught. Rumination, learned helplessness, cognitive dissonance, trauma bonding, gaslighting, blame shifting etc. are quite a lot to handle for the body. How do you heal from narcisstic abuse? How do you defrost your mind and body?
This is what led me to doing somatic experiencing sessions 28 months ago. Went no contact with my narcissistic ex, was in the worst place I’d ever been. Constant rumination, cognitive dissonance, functional freeze, dissociated and I found an SE practitioner (have weekly sessions and still do) and here I am 28 months later - feeling alive, connected, present, grounded, regulated. Now I look back and I’m grateful for the life lessons as I’d never have gone on my NS journey if it wasn’t for that relationship. I’m sure all Irene’s work/courses would help too 💜
I’ve been doing Joe’s work for a couple of years. I’ve had a spontaneous healing during meditation. I still do his meditations almost daily because it does raise my energy. It has helped open my heart. But i felt that I needed more. I need to learn more about the stuck energy and how to release it. I’m on a Dr Joe meditation Fb page, and have heard a lot of people need the same. I’ve recommended you to a lot of them.
I'm doing Joe's work, and have been for a year now consistently. His methods are essentially chakra meditation (placing awareness on these nerve plexuses and really feeling them out) + powerful Kriya & Hatha techniques. And THAT'S why it works, it's not his methods per se, but methods that have been in existence since Ancient times but known to few. What he does is an amazing job at communicating and drawing people in to the path of healing and growth. He emphasises that this work must be done every day, pretty much for the rest of your life (we're talking not only healing, but soul evolution and mystical experiences. Healing is just the beginning 😅). I've done his meditations on/off for years, but it is only when I began showing up every day - meditation, breathwork, kriya - that my body and mind began to purge, then heal. Also, "feeling the energy" became a real thing to me, whereas before I thought it was just a figure of speech. No. You actually physically feel the energy in its many manifestations.
I’ve done Dr joes work everyday for three years. Have not missed a day. Some days I do it 3 times a day. There are many things he teaches but the tuning into the body and the energy centers was profound for me due to trauma and disconnect from the emotional body
You know I think anything that depends on us using willpower to "push" through things is unlikely to be sustainable long term. The body wisdom is just beyond what we understand with our minds even with the advances of science, there is much that is unexplained about our brains. One other perspective is to consider Bruce Lipton's work on receptors on the body - the more conscious a person is , the greater then number of receptors and therefore the more sensitive to the environment, more likely to experience trauma and to have a greater sensitivity in the central nervous system to threat, simply because there are more antennas receiving environmental energy. This might be affected by who is in the particular group at the time . Is this a problem ? or is it a design feature of higher consciousness and therefore something to learn to care for. Mindfulness of where we live, how much we interact with certain things etc. I think a big part of that is the need for rest so the body can deal with it without having to allocate resources to unnecessary activities. But we have been taught not to trust our body's desires - we call it laziness or resistance and we override it. Same with diets - not every body has the same dietary needs all the time, it changes and the same with water - we can overdo drinking water just because this is how much science says to drink. People are coming to you to help with skills to address the accumulated trauma in the body that we have simply pushed past in our effort to belong in this culture. But truly the long term answers can only ever lie in listening to our own body even if it seems to go against the advice of experts.
Hi @yinchimoon thank you for your perspective. I really resonated with the points you raised. Especially labour us not trusting and shaming our need for rest. And the one size fits all approach. I am highly productive in short bursts. And I need loads of breaks. I'm a sprinter no a marathon runner. A generic approach to healing is always going to be hit and miss. Thanks again for your comments. Nell x
Oh yes, thank you for this. I hadn't heard of Bruce Lipton before. I used to think I was so lazy! But now I realize that's just a judgement I put on myself. People don't understand how much energy you move just being. It's important. You just think you aren't doing anything because you aren't aware of it.
@@costaldevomito I think also when you are healing old trauma, there is such much more needed by the body to dismantle physical blocks within the body. Thank you for your comment
@@nell6139 The softening effect your comment has had on my body, makes me realise how difficult it is to hold a point of view that is counter to the mainstream. To be validated in that makes me feel less alone. Thank you Nell.
thank you this is very interesting please where does bruce lipton write this in which book or is it in the video? that the higher the consciousness, the more receptors? I am a very perceptive sensitive empath and it is difficult to find the right environment to live in. I need a lot of silence and harmony.
I am an SBSM Alum, luckily I started in 2022 I believe so I've had the privilege of taking 2courses per year. This program ( in combination with EMDR and parts work I did as well) has taken me from almost a decade of shut down and functioning at 2% of my capacity in a very small world- to feeling alive again and able to work full time, back to school for my bachelors, pursuing personal goals, excelling in my current career, and REGULATION and the ability to find safety within was the key. Before, I didn't even think all of my emotions were valid... SMBS IS A SERVICE TO HUMANITY! We all need more education on how to regulate. ❤
Hi. Im SBSM student 5th time. It is hard work to implement but it shifted me so much. I came to this work after having real PTSD symtoms. I tried before this work first hypnosis wich unpacked something even worse and my system blown up. After that many meditations, also Dr Joes method. And I was even worse. He's work is not for CPTS, or severe PTSD symptoms. It is disconectic from body and it can hurt a lot of people who are not on that level of consciousness. Im so greatfull to find this work. Because nothing works so deeply and longterm as this. Thanks for interesting theme and conversation. Also. People should bevefy wise in choosing their practice.
I found Dispenza’s work over 10 years ago. I found it to be very interesting and thought it might work for me. Initially it did, but then my system got completely blown apart. What he teaches is the opposite of what heals a dysregulated nervous system. He teaches you to separate yourself from your body, your environment, and even time itself….the exact things you should not be doing when you’re stuck in trauma, or dealing with CPTSD. Trauma already breaks those connections, and to heal trauma, one must get connected back to their bodies and their environment. It proved to be very dangerous for me. I would encourage people to be extremely careful and really do their due diligence before getting involved with those modalities. On the other hand, I have been working with your concepts, Irene, and I have done the 21 day program. It is has started to heal my system.
TRUTH! He teaches you to separate yourself from your body, your environment, and even time itself….the exact things you should not be doing when you’re stuck in trauma, or dealing with CPTSD. I AGREE! Joes work is Nothing like Irenes Work. It is dangerous in fact....
Funny how different people have different experiences. His work helped me connect to my body and was through which I started to experience spontaneous somatic releases. Dispenza's work helped me understand what Itene Lyon teaches.
For me dr. Joe Dispenza's work completely transformed my life. I learn a lot from Irene too, so these modalities can complement each other, if you are curious enough and if it resonates with you. For some it will click and resonate, for some not. Having said this, the most I learn from self awareness and self observation - all the rest are tools I use. Knowledge that Irene shares is of the greatest value nonetheless
Thank you Irene. I'd like to think that if you (learn to) regulate your nervous system properly, and you keep doing this as a lifestyle, what Joe Dispenza does (or any other for that matter) is an added bonus. Ever since I came out of decades of freeze, and now learn to regulate, I have been so hungry for learning new stuff. I am devouring books on various subjects and I have to admit, one of Joe’s books is waiting for me on my Kindle 😊
I started with Joe's work 5 1/2 years ago now for complex trauma, blunt force trauma, brain injuries and chronic pain. It has helped me tremendously, yet like Irene says, it's an ongoing process. I don't consider myself a "success story" far from it...yet. But stages of relief and progress are felt and they're real. For me.
I guess what joe dispenzas teaches works for those who stick at it and truly believe and trust the process is why it worked for some and not others. I suppose the same reason why some will get better with your your work and some won’t. I am incorporating both your work and his because I truly want to. Change and get better. I believe in both and both practices make total sense to me. I think what you are both teaching is amazing work!
Spot on! Are they living the work? That is the difference. I love your Edgar cayce passage! The moments of connection of all things feels like bliss! I’m committed to snip the illusions of separation within myself to be oneness…feels like my life work and path
I really enjoyed your perspective. I attended one of his 3 day events. It is very powerful doing the meditations in such a large group (he does do large events on purpose). At the event I was able to "override" the "resistance" of the body, mind, emotions etc... But when I practiced at home by myself I couldn't, the meditations themselves were triggering deep trauma and PTSD, of which spiritual abuse was a contributing factor. There can be indoctrination in that environment, that I was then not good enough because I didn't have the "will power" to override what was happening and keep with the meditation. Not all the meditations are like that, but many are. In my opinion these meditations can lead to spiritual bypass and possibly the addiction of chasing the high if the inner resources to do a particular style of practice aren't there. Through my personal experience of being highly disconnected and dysregulated his approach was more harmful than helpful. Reconnecting to my body, myself, my environment and using the gentle approach to move out of dysregulation was part of my pathway to healing. That said, I wouldn't dismiss what he has to say. He has a lot of wonderful information in his books and lectures, and I will continue to learn from him with discernment. But, I doubt I would do the meditations again. I have other meditation practices that work for me.
@@sistaschin I work a lot with awareness meditation, energy healing meditations, somatic practices and mantra and mudra meditations. Also, I am working my way through SBSM.
Really awesome & nuanced video Irene, thank you. Its all about integrating the work gently into our everyday way of being. Through that we can sustainably heal and allow the healing to actually STICK and weave through our systems across all these layers! There us definitely a place in the world for higher activation group experiences...but for me I've found them a bit too much for my nervous system currently. Maybe once I have more regulation on board but maybe not! Who knows :) And in my obs over the years, I've seen a lot of people approach high activation activities from a very dysregulated place hoping (likely unconsciously) that it will 'fix/save' them almost, I include some religious communities here too. And these things definitely can bring a lot of miraculous healing, however...where are they in months/years after that? A bunch quit and go back to their regular dysregulated state feeling a bit more mixed up on their journey. So for me its about the WAY in which we approach different modalities and spaces and if we have enough capacity to continually *be* with them to allow them to land. And we might not depending on where we are at in our journey!
At one point sincerely tried dispenza method.. to change my personality to heal my physical illnesses. I noticed that i just dont have what it takes 😂 im just not able to "change my personality" 😛 And doing those meditations every day.. i ve had times when it s possible for a while, i ve had times when its not possible. Sometimes i ve been months continuously so exhausted (chronic fatigue syndrome etc) that if i simply sit down i just pass out in less than a minute. That really doesnt support the neditating attempts.. 😖 Anyway, im working on the sbsm, i have all the logical reasons to believe in this method 👍👍👍
Joined your 21 day tuneup last year and could not even sit still long enough to get past day three lol! I am a long time seeker but very ungrounded and am going back to IFS work and will be ready soon. I really feel deep in my marrow it will soon be time to begin the 21 day tuneup again. Not sure if my wellness journey is linear but I do feel good about it now. Love that you tap into different dimensions and frequencies. I fall into the trap of believing that healing and wellness should look a certain way and I am learning that my creativity plays a huge part in breaking through some of the blockages. Hope this makes sense!
Yes I agree with the creativity thing. I guess that is why it's also a specific form of therapy. Learning to create, to enjoy being in that space of creating, no pressure, no right, no wrong, just creating our own worlds... our awareness in that moment ...completely absorbed... is so fulfilling and empowering. 😊
I fail to see the similarity between JD's and IL's work, maybe in that they're both trying to help us navigate the challenges that life inherently present us with on a daily basis. The first thinking mistake we all make is that this or that method is going to FIX our problem. I believe the best we can get from any methodology that resonates with us is the tools to navigate the challenges and constraints, not the removal of those constraints. These tools, when used accordingly can be so empowering that if effective can give us more agency and take us away from a position of victimhood, or the feeling that we are inescapably at the mercy of an unwanted life. If you ask me which I would chose between Irene and Joe I would probably chose Irene because she delivers her method through very easy to understand verbiage and very actionable homework. It is work but what is better work than that which we invest ourselves in for the better. Just the fact that wen can get invested in such self loving work can be a reward in itself, and again an empowering way to direct our energies.
@@lindsayh1502 That is "Not" what Irenes work is doing...calming, though in time doing her work of regulating our nervous system will bring us to a place of regulation
@@leticiadelgadillooh I thought that is exactly what her nervous system work is about. I have followed her for years and am a mindbody coach - love her stuff - it’s all about bringing in safety to the nervous system (through gentle somatics) 🥰
I think that when you want to say anything about another method of healing you first must know what it is about, how it works and the studies that are available about it. I work as a therapist like you. I am totally with you when you talk about continuing the work (what work it is that helps you) and not expect that you just let go after a period of time. You could have made this video without the example of a man whose method you dont even know. Then your information was valid and honest. Stay in clear information without prejudice so that clients with cptsd can make their own decisions (thats already very hard for this group!)
Hello @aams135, Sophia from Team Lyon here. Thank you for your comment. Your feedback is valuable and has been fully received and registered. Irene's intention in sharing this case study was not to speak to or undermine the specific work that Joe Dispenza offers, but in response to a direct question she received where Joe Dispenza's work was used as an example in the question being asked. The intention of her overarching message was to explain why healing happens for some and not for others. In the video she points to these differences coming from how the individual utilizes any healing method with which they engage and not to any direct methods that Joe Dispenza offers, since, as she explains, she is not aware of the specific work he delivers. We fully appreciate your comment and perspective on different healing methods and healers and we sincerely hope that this topic does not alienate you from the nervous system regulation work that Irene offers. Please feel free to be in touch with any additional thoughts or feedback you wish to share.
I understand het intention. But to make her point it is absolutely not necessarily to mention a sort of therapy, a name or a method. You can change the question in 'why does something methods work for one but not for the other'. A name in the caption is influence. Even if you dont mean to do.
Hi there. Thanks for your message here :) Perhaps you have already moved through these, but if you haven't: Have you move through my audio samplers that have practical exercises? You will find the audio samplers on this page: irenelyon.com/free-resources/ ... We also have a YT playlist here with practical exercises: th-cam.com/play/PL_tIcR-r0CU5Xss_Mq1buU-tWdYVQksjI.html Some of my most advanced students once started with these, some of which were bed bound with complex PTSD at the start!! Keep up the learning! Irene.
I attended one of Joe Dispenza's advanced retreat and I had exactly the same question: how are the majority of attendee's doing in the long run? Like - really, honestly. Being one of them, I was very curious to observe how my expectations and all the build up hype will play out. I met tons of people in that retreat for whom it was their 5th + time that they attend his retreats. As with everything: the moment we outsource the power of transformation/ shift to someone or something else, it becomes just another "addiction". Just an expensive one. I asked people why do they think they keep returning to his events and paying big money for it (people travelled to the event from all over the globe to attend, so it becomes really costly)? Does it really, deeply shifts anything then? Or is it, in majority of cases, just a strong hit for some time and then it wears down, till the next time? I also saw people putting him on a pedestal and seeing him as authority without discernment and questioning. That also doesn't help at the end. J. Dispenza encourages attendees to take responsibility for their shifts (which is a sane way to do it) and, at the same time, the setting of the retreat itself is built to support this interesting-intense vibe after which you truly feel as if something has changed. So it's interesting weaving of support and good old event setting in one place. I'm always happy for people who really get fascinating results and, I'm not sure, whether they really work out that way in the long run.
I haven't attended a Dr Joe event, was in the application process for one a year or so ago. But it sold out very quickly and I missed out. I have huge respect for him and his work and feel that he is doing this as a way of presenting to people the possibility of what humanity can be... of having people experience it. Some will manage to recreate themselves, some won't, but they had the opportunity to connect with the bigger self. And perhaps this sort of experience is the most promising one for bringing peace to humanity... for ending the cycle of wars.
I did the meditations for a while and it was terrible for me because it took me out of my body and made me feel wired and unsafe. I know other people that had similar experiences
Thank you Irene for your work. Integration and acceptance of healing is so important and cannot be done so easily. I am currently experiencing some effects from rapid healing that are to tough to assimilate.
Well I have a friend that healed his heart from a 95% irreversible fibrotic miocarditis using and applying breaking the habit of being yourself book more than 10 years ago. He is personal trainer and karate elite sports since then. The doctors said he will not able to even walk again cause his heart could explode at any moment but he healed I one year completely. This is how I met the work of Dr Joe, after knowing my friend's story 5 years ago and my friend was already healed years ago. Only the book, in his house and applying the meditation and the things every day until healed, he doesn't even follow the meditations anymore now
Joe’s teachings are very valuable. This feels a bit like click bait. Irene’s teaching/system has some value but only a small piece of the puzzle on my recovery journey.
I do believe in the miraculous things that happened to Joe’s students but I do have the feeling those miracles require doing his work for multiple hours each day for months on end. I just don’t think that’s sustainable for everyone of us. Irene’s work doesn’t take that much of investment while still reaping ginormous benefits if you stick with it.
It doesn’t require that for everyone. It’s different for different people. I had a crazy moment of healing and only did it consistently for 2-3 weeks to get there.
@@missxjewel1246 I do think the more regulated one is the more results one can gain with Joe Dispenza's work. But indeed, I guess results vary and some people may have results rather quickly.
Wow. It's not a competition, Irene. As someone else mentioned in the comments, you just did yourself a huge professional and ethical disservice here by passing judgement on Dispensa's method whilst admitting you know nothing about it! If you did a modicum of research or read one of his books, you would find that this EG quote is actually very much in line with what he does. I mean, one of his key words is "coherence" - between the body, the mind, the heart, the soul, our environment. His retreats aren't mere expensive Tulumesque raves, and implying so passes a judgement on what he does AND the people who attend as "sorta shallow". They very much encourage the attendees to read the books, do the work, the meditations, the breath work, and prepare themselves to get the best out of the retreats. You must have done a shorter retreat before doing the weeklong and advanced retreats: his message is exactly that you have to do the work and learn to stay coherent in between meditation sessions, in your day to day life. He readily admits that he still gets triggered several times a day, and finds the discipline and dedication to re-direct, as he teaches. It's all about mindfulness and a calm nervous system. Most people readily know that nothing will stick if you don't do the work, practice until it's a new habit or reflex - it's the same with yoga, ice skating, playing the violin, driving, doing biofeedback or different forms of therapy. I'm not sure why you wouldn't just remind people of that simple fact, without going on a tangent about YOUR credentials, YOUR method and success story... when there was no competition or comparison implied in the original question. Disappointing! 😐
Actually I think it’s been proven man times that Joe doesn’t help people with trauma perhaps because he doesn’t seem to understand how it feels. I feel the same with Eckhart Tolle. There was a time where I was so traumatised that just sitting in the moment was incredibly painful and I couldn’t do it without rolling around in tears on the floor. That wouldn’t have been viable had I been sitting in Joe Dispenzas auditorium…! I remember immediately realising that I had to heal the trauma first. Later Joe Dispenzas meditations benefitted me greatly and was often the main thing stopping me from feeling depressed. Trauma is such a weird experience I think it’s very hard for people without trauma to understand. That’s why I think these teachers miss it out.
Hello @sophiemarcaurele , Sophia from Team Lyon here. Thank you for your comment. Your feedback is valuable and has been fully received and registered. Irene's intention in sharing this case study was not to speak to or undermine the specific work that Joe Dispenza offers, but in response to a direct question she received where Joe Dispenza's work was used as an example in the question being asked. The intention of her overarching message was to explain why healing happens for some and not for others. In the video she points to these differences coming from how the individual utilizes any healing method with which they engage and not to any direct methods that Joe Dispenza offers, since, as she explains, she is not aware of the specific work he delivers. We fully appreciate your comment and we sincerely hope that this topic does not alienate you from the nervous system regulation work that Irene offers. Please feel free to be in touch with any additional thoughts or feedback you wish to share.
@Duckietwo hello I've been looking into Joe's material I've just done my first round of sbsm I'm feeling like in irene's work that isn't as much of a creating a vision of our future repetitively and I feel like that's something that I missing do you feel like these two things would be beneficial together for example coming back into the present moment and visualizing a future and dreaming ourselves into that future through meditation?
Hi! I'm also an sbsm student and I have found that after spending some time resourcing and feeling very connected, I allow myself and imagination to visualise and ponder exciting possibilities or scenarios. I think that imagination process is also part of "following impulse" and honouring our capacity to imagination and day dream and fantasise for future scenarios. I think the difference is when the visualising is happening consistently as a way of disconnecting from ourselves and mabe sparking up some freeze? I notice that when I visualise or imagination future scenarios and I notice sensations that feel like some flight activation, then perhaps a priority is not daydreaming but connecting back to my body and moving in a way that shifts me into a more level neutral state, then if I feel like re visiting my imagination from that neutral place I allow myself some time but then give myself a boundary to stop and continue with another part of my day. I hope this helps a little
I also notice that when I visualise and day dream from that neutral pleasant internal state, my body feels nice through the day dream and it kind of feels like a resource in itself, but if i notice I start to daze off or go a little too far then I might orient and stop the visualising. But I do allow it to happen because I don't want to repress my imagination just because I have used it previously to sustain a freeze response.
Joe Dispenza would agree with you I believe - the meditations makes up the work" and everyone in the JD community understand that if you dont continue the work the healing wont continue. How many hours of JD's work have you done yourself ? And why would anyone comment (and put his name in the heading of a video) on a body of work that you yourself have not done extensively ? I am confused ....
Hello, @handsdesigncollective3488 Sophia from Team Lyon here. Thank you for your comment. Your feedback is valuable and has been fully received and registered. Irene's intention in sharing this case study was not to speak to or undermine the specific work that Joe Dispenza offers, but in response to a direct question she received where Joe Dispenza's work was used as an example in the question being asked. The intention of her overarching message was to explain why healing happens for some and not for others. In the video she points to these differences coming from how the individual utilizes any healing method with which they engage and not to any direct methods that Joe Dispenza offers, since, as she explains, she is not aware of the specific work he delivers. We fully appreciate your comment and perspective on different healing methods and healers and we sincerely hope that this topic does not alienate you from the nervous system regulation work that Irene offers. Please feel free to be in touch with any additional thoughts or feedback you wish to share.
That's a very important acknowledgement in the beginning - that there is no follow-up regarding testimonials. That, to me, is a huge red flag that, no matter how well something works or the goodness of intention is, it is primarily marketing. And in the healing world, that is a very sad thing
Not true that there is no follow up. The events are studying groups there long term. Not everyone is a part of the long term studies taking place, but they are definitely studying and always have been doing long term research of Joe Dispenza work.
Joe says the same... Meditation itself is not enough. A person must become conscious during their waking day. Learn how to self regulate - he doesn't teach this. His work is not about dissociation but connecting back to self. And of course, creating a new future. I love his love meditations. I know of ppl who attended his retreat and felt great after but they went back to their toxic relationships and live back their unfulfilled lives. If something works for some but doesn't for some, it is not because the teaching. It is because a person's level of consciousness.
I have question. Why do people who had a decent upbringing and are relatively well regulated not have to do all this kind of work, at least not like unregulated people do. As in incorporating all these intentional teachings into their lives permanently. How come they can go on and live a relatively well life or at least a regulated one, while we have to do all this life work of constant healing and intentional re coordination and re training of everything
To answer your question.. and this is my opinion, I don't claim to be right. A different perspective...The law of karma is real. Like gravity it does what it does without thinking. From a soul perspective we have had many incarnations where in bodies we do actions both good and bad. These actions have to be accounted for. A human life is a combination of good and bad based on these previous actions. Unfortunately we can't see this, it's not tangible and therefore most people dismiss this. It's the law of cause and effect in Physics or as you sow shall you reap in the Bible. In fact it is mentioned in all the scriptures. So whilst on a human level we see that life is unfair, it in fact is just. Look up Supreme Yogi on TH-cam it will give you some inspiration hopefully. Wishing you well 🙏🏻
@@Miss-Hellcat666 we have all done bad things at different stages of our souls evolution. But we have also done good things. Ultimately what we see in our lives is 'paying' off (reaping) . That includes the good things as well. YT obviously didn't like my first comment. It seems to have disappeared
With the 21 day nervous system course is it necessary to do it a few times to get results? I did it once and did like it but didn’t get the results I was hoping for.
Hello @humblelovingsouls, Sophia here from Team Lyon. Thank you for your comment and for sharing about your experience with our courses. To answer your question here are some ways to gain more from the 21 Day Nervous System Tune-Up course: 1. Begin again. Especially re-engage with the 9 neurosensory exercises. These are designed to offer an embodied somatic experience of the education and concepts. The neurosensory exercises offer a direct felt-sense experience of your somatic nervous system. With time we can become better at actually feeling and experiencing (and self-directing) our autonomic nervous system too! - plus in a way that is not survival-based, but with conscious thought and biological intelligence! Each time we practice any one of the exercises, we are beginning fresh, exploring anew, diving a bit deeper into our nervous system, shifting states and building capacity and regulation (which ripples out to all our biological systems...and this takes time). The 21 Day course is not designed as a "one and done" - meaning, it can take a few rounds to have some of the essence and practical nature (as well as benefits) seep in. This is 100% normal for any new lifestyle practice. All this to say, the 21 Day course is a beginning foundation and is designed to be repeated. 2. Re: Orienting. Keep playing around with and practicing orienting. It is similar, yet different, from how mindfulness is generally understood and practiced. Orienting builds a fuller spectrum of somatic + environmental awareness. Most forms of mindfulness concentrate, typically, only on the inner experience and the internal sensations and thoughts etc. Whereas orienting, is about what some might call the 'holy trinity' of awareness + embodiment which is: somatic self and ALL its senses; the environment around us; PLUS integrating them both at the same exact time. As we develop this capacity, we can become more responsive (rather than reactive), engaged, and regulated in our lives (in the good times and also during painful and challenging/stressful times). This orienting practice appears very simplistic in the beginning, however, it can become a very potent practice of awareness that supports us indefinitely. Our hope is that as you continue the practices and education in the 21 Day course you'll recognize the material offered is much more in-depth and layered than the many free resources Irene offers. We would love to suggest to practice orienting in more advanced settings: in a busy grocery store or a crowded café, out in a park, on the street, etc. After all, orienting is something that we, as mammals, are meant to be doing ALL the time. The audio exercise is meant as an introduction to the practice and in time, we want this to simply be our healthy human nature that is happening throughout our waking hours. So maybe that kind of daily, in-the-moment practice would be an interesting thing to explore, although you may be doing that already? The same can be said of the other neurosensory exercises - all of them can be brought into our daily lived experience. Thank you once again for your comment and we do hope you continue to ask questions and be curious with your internal and external experiences as you learn and practice moving forward.
@@IreneLyon thank you Sophia, I appreciate your very in depth response. Yes, I definitely want to do the 21 day course again. I do resonate with Irene’s teachings much more than others and I’ve researched and done many other teachings/modalities ect. Capacity is definitely an issue still which is not a surprise to me. I find it really hard to put myself into stressful/different situations without feeling over stimulated, faint or honestly just really strange. Still trying to navigate that as it is all coming from a fried ns and adrenal fatigue.
Joe did say in an interview (Lewis Howes I think) that getting the results to stick was a central problem. Perhaps a collaboration between Irene and Joe might be fruitful.
Hello @nk35101 , Sophia from Team Lyon here. Thank you for your comment. Your feedback is valuable and has been fully received and registered. Irene's intention in sharing this case study was not to speak to or undermine the specific work that Joe Dispenza offers, but in response to a direct question she received where Joe Dispenza's work was used as an example in the question being asked. The intention of her overarching message was to explain why healing happens for some and not for others. In the video she points to these differences coming from how the individual utilizes any healing method with which they engage and not to any direct methods that Joe Dispenza offers, since, as she explains, she is not aware of the specific work he delivers. We fully appreciate your comment and we sincerely hope that this topic does not alienate you from the nervous system regulation work that Irene offers. Please feel free to be in touch with any additional thoughts or feedback you wish to share.
Hello @handsdesigncollective3488 Sophia from Team Lyon here. Thank you for your comment. Your feedback is valuable and has been fully received and registered. Irene's intention in sharing this case study was not to speak to or undermine the specific work that Joe Dispenza offers, but in response to a direct question she received where Joe Dispenza's work was used as an example in the question being asked. The intention of her overarching message was to explain why healing happens for some and not for others. In the video she points to these differences coming from how the individual utilizes any healing method with which they engage and not to any direct methods that Joe Dispenza offers, since, as she explains, she is not aware of the specific work he delivers. We fully appreciate your comment and we sincerely hope that this topic does not alienate you from the nervous system regulation work that Irene offers. Please feel free to be in touch with any additional thoughts or feedback you wish to share.
I did Joe's meditations, 2-3 hours a day for nearly a year. They didn't help me at all unfortunately (I have ME/CFS and multiple other issues). I think his methods help you transcend trauma, but absolutely do not heal it. And if you have lots if trauma, as I do, I just don't think it can work. Maybe if you only have some, it can work. Either way, I don't see it as permanent healing of root cause. I've heard of many people's diseases returning after they get back from retreats, because they go back to their old identities. Maybe you can get long term results if you're really careful about continuing the work forever.
Irene, such a shame you are indirectly dissing Dr Joe while it's clear from what you're saying that you don't even know what his method entails. Maybe just read what the requirements are for enrolling in his week-long. I hadn't expected this kind of review from you, really disappointing.
Hello @sparklingdiva1111 Sophia from Team Lyon here. Thank you for your comment. Your feedback is valuable and has been fully received and registered. Irene's intention in sharing this case study was not to speak to or undermine the specific work that Joe Dispenza offers, but in response to a direct question she received where Joe Dispenza's work was used as an example in the question being asked. The intention of her overarching message was to explain why healing happens for some and not for others. In the video she points to these differences coming from how the individual utilizes any healing method with which they engage and not to any direct methods that Joe Dispenza offers, since, as she explains, she is not aware of the specific work he delivers. We fully appreciate your comment and we sincerely hope that this topic does not alienate you from the nervous system regulation work that Irene offers. Please feel free to be in touch with any additional thoughts or feedback you wish to share.
The purpose of Joe dispenza is to bring a new consciousness to the mainstream. He and his teaching is perfect for that job, so let him do his job. Its like every other subject, you have beginner stuff then you have advanced stuff. You are obviously advanced and your whole channel is emernating with the frequency of "i know better then everyone else". Its like noone has given you credit for your amazing work and discoveries, so im going to do that for you. Good job irene. You are so good. You have so much wisdom. You are very smart and you know the truth about healing better then everybody else. Source did not put Joe Dispenza in that place because it did a mistake, nor with the people who follow his teachings. Just like everything else in this universe and awakening. When you have deeper understanding you will see it.
I don't know what video you watched but I find your comment totally unwarranted. In no way has Irene made a derogatory comment about Dr. Joe Dispenza or has delusions of grandeur about her own work. She just gave her perspective and answered a question about Dr. Joe Dispenza that was put to her. I find their teachings very similar and equally valuable. I wholeheartedly agree with her that every healing journey is an individual one and what works for some doesn't work for others.
I have a question, are you teaching nervous system regulation or in the field of somatic health? I’m just curious. I’ve taken all of Irene’s courses and I am a somatic movement guide certified in other methods. I took Irene’s classes to become trauma informed and it’s excellent. Also, I healed some of my own stuff along the way which was a big bonus. As you mentioned Joes stuff is different and I don’t believe he calls himself a nervous system expert either. It's not uncommon for experts in a particular field to offer critiques or comparisons, but it's essential to do so respectfully which Irene has done. However, perhaps not with a clear understanding of the his modalities. Also our perspectives are shaped by our own experiences, biases, or personal preferences. And while they both may have valid points about the effectiveness of certain practices for particular individuals, it's important to recognize that healing is a deeply personal and individualized process. So to finish, in the end I found her approach aligned with my own values and beliefs. And it inadvertently worked for me. Not coming from severe trauma, I find Joe’s approach interesting for other reasons, like you mentioned.
It's happened couple times now. I don't have the reference links, but one case was an entire thyroid gland. Of course it's case by case and Dr. Joe thinks of it as "the four minute mile"...in that after the first person succeeds, more will follow because the pattern of possibility has been established in a non-physical dimension of reality. Many of his students by now have been able to put their cancers into remission and shrink or eliminate malignant tumors. Many I'm sure, have also tried to do that but not been successful. And many succeed but ultimately it doesn't "stick". But after the first person, it became possible for others. Placebo effect is a powerful thing, and a real thing. Yeah, sounds a little salad-like, agreed. But one thing I keep thinking, that might be more accessible: for a century or more, nobody, no medical field or doctor, believed that cartilage destroyed in osteoarthritis could ever be repaired. Hence the proliferation of joint replacement surgeries. But more and more I'm starting to see examples of people succeeding and a revival of consideration by medical professionals. (Maybe the ones who don't depend on joint replacement for their bread and butter?)
@@lisbethbird8268 you can tick every box of a charlatan with him. I'd be as happy as the next person if it was shown humans could regrow organs, but surely you can see that in the absence of providing proof of claims like this, it's meaningless
Nothing Joe or Bruce Lipton taught briught me any relief, healing or any positive "manifestation" in my life. I think maybe their methods are effective for people with little to no major trauma. Also, God is always absent from these teachings, and these courses cost an exorbitant amount of money. I don't know, but after years of trying and failing, you end up feeling like you must be broken in a way other people are not, and that's why none of these teachings work for you.
Hello, Sophia from Team Lyon here. Thank you for your feedback and for sharing about what is going on for you. Many of our students found Irene's work while feeling like what you described above. Irene's work is for those who want to learn the education of the nervous system and integrate the information into their lives. Her courses are designed to work with all types of trauma at the deep level of the nervous system to fundamentally change the way you are in relationship to yourself, others, and the environment around you. Many folks find this nervous system work, at its heart, is about becoming who YOU truly are and finally learning what it means to go from living in a state of survival, stress, and anxiety to a place of hope, possibility, and solid well-being. If you're interested in learning more about your nervous system and how to work with it, we highly recommend Irene's free resources and mini-training, all housed under this link: irenelyon.com/free-resources/ Please feel free to reach out to our support inbox if you have any questions.
@@IreneLyon Thank you Sophia, I'm actually familiar with Irene Lyon's work and resources and find her and find that her methods a million times more effective than most of what's out there, specifically "manifestation" and many things new-age-y. My comment was about Joe Dispenza and Bruce Lipton, and many other well-known ones who fall under the same category. Most are snake-oil salesmen, and the rest while doing their best and following what they themselves believe to be truly useful, just don't offer tools that work for many many of us because we have more complicated traumas, and more pragmatic and less airy fairy methods are required. Irene is doing God's work and her channel has truly been a boon on my path of recovery. Wishing you many blessings!
![ร้อยพ่อพันแม่ - WanMai [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XY2pNYASEbg/mqdefault.jpg)
Irene, could you do a series on how narcissitic abuse wreaks havoc on the nervous system and how to disentagle onesself from this constant onslaught. Rumination, learned helplessness, cognitive dissonance, trauma bonding, gaslighting, blame shifting etc. are quite a lot to handle for the body. How do you heal from narcisstic abuse? How do you defrost your mind and body?
I second this. Would be really helpful. Consider the request Irene.
Yes please!
Would love to hear her take on this subject too 🤞
A third YES Please! here.
This is what led me to doing somatic experiencing sessions 28 months ago. Went no contact with my narcissistic ex, was in the worst place I’d ever been. Constant rumination, cognitive dissonance, functional freeze, dissociated and I found an SE practitioner (have weekly sessions and still do) and here I am 28 months later - feeling alive, connected, present, grounded, regulated. Now I look back and I’m grateful for the life lessons as I’d never have gone on my NS journey if it wasn’t for that relationship. I’m sure all Irene’s work/courses would help too 💜
I’ve been doing Joe’s work for a couple of years. I’ve had a spontaneous healing during meditation. I still do his meditations almost daily because it does raise my energy. It has helped open my heart. But i felt that I needed more. I need to learn more about the stuck energy and how to release it. I’m on a Dr Joe meditation Fb page, and have heard a lot of people need the same. I’ve recommended you to a lot of them.
I'm doing Joe's work, and have been for a year now consistently. His methods are essentially chakra meditation (placing awareness on these nerve plexuses and really feeling them out) + powerful Kriya & Hatha techniques. And THAT'S why it works, it's not his methods per se, but methods that have been in existence since Ancient times but known to few. What he does is an amazing job at communicating and drawing people in to the path of healing and growth. He emphasises that this work must be done every day, pretty much for the rest of your life (we're talking not only healing, but soul evolution and mystical experiences. Healing is just the beginning 😅). I've done his meditations on/off for years, but it is only when I began showing up every day - meditation, breathwork, kriya - that my body and mind began to purge, then heal. Also, "feeling the energy" became a real thing to me, whereas before I thought it was just a figure of speech. No. You actually physically feel the energy in its many manifestations.
I’ve done Dr joes work everyday for three years. Have not missed a day. Some days I do it 3 times a day. There are many things he teaches but the tuning into the body and the energy centers was profound for me due to trauma and disconnect from the emotional body
You know I think anything that depends on us using willpower to "push" through things is unlikely to be sustainable long term. The body wisdom is just beyond what we understand with our minds even with the advances of science, there is much that is unexplained about our brains.
One other perspective is to consider Bruce Lipton's work on receptors on the body - the more conscious a person is , the greater then number of receptors and therefore the more sensitive to the environment, more likely to experience trauma and to have a greater sensitivity in the central nervous system to threat, simply because there are more antennas receiving environmental energy. This might be affected by who is in the particular group at the time .
Is this a problem ? or is it a design feature of higher consciousness and therefore something to learn to care for. Mindfulness of where we live, how much we interact with certain things etc. I think a big part of that is the need for rest so the body can deal with it without having to allocate resources to unnecessary activities. But we have been taught not to trust our body's desires - we call it laziness or resistance and we override it. Same with diets - not every body has the same dietary needs all the time, it changes and the same with water - we can overdo drinking water just because this is how much science says to drink.
People are coming to you to help with skills to address the accumulated trauma in the body that we have simply pushed past in our effort to belong in this culture. But truly the long term answers can only ever lie in listening to our own body even if it seems to go against the advice of experts.
Hi @yinchimoon thank you for your perspective. I really resonated with the points you raised. Especially labour us not trusting and shaming our need for rest. And the one size fits all approach. I am highly productive in short bursts. And I need loads of breaks. I'm a sprinter no a marathon runner. A generic approach to healing is always going to be hit and miss. Thanks again for your comments. Nell x
Oh yes, thank you for this. I hadn't heard of Bruce Lipton before.
I used to think I was so lazy! But now I realize that's just a judgement I put on myself. People don't understand how much energy you move just being. It's important. You just think you aren't doing anything because you aren't aware of it.
@@costaldevomito I think also when you are healing old trauma, there is such much more needed by the body to dismantle physical blocks within the body. Thank you for your comment
@@nell6139 The softening effect your comment has had on my body, makes me realise how difficult it is to hold a point of view that is counter to the mainstream. To be validated in that makes me feel less alone. Thank you Nell.
thank you this is very interesting please where does bruce lipton write this in which book or is it in the video? that the higher the consciousness, the more receptors? I am a very perceptive sensitive empath and it is difficult to find the right environment to live in. I need a lot of silence and harmony.
I am an SBSM Alum, luckily I started in 2022 I believe so I've had the privilege of taking 2courses per year. This program ( in combination with EMDR and parts work I did as well) has taken me from almost a decade of shut down and functioning at 2% of my capacity in a very small world- to feeling alive again and able to work full time, back to school for my bachelors, pursuing personal goals, excelling in my current career, and REGULATION and the ability to find safety within was the key. Before, I didn't even think all of my emotions were valid... SMBS IS A SERVICE TO HUMANITY! We all need more education on how to regulate. ❤
Hi. Im SBSM student 5th time. It is hard work to implement but it shifted me so much. I came to this work after having real PTSD symtoms. I tried before this work first hypnosis wich unpacked something even worse and my system blown up. After that many meditations, also Dr Joes method. And I was even worse. He's work is not for CPTS, or severe PTSD symptoms. It is disconectic from body and it can hurt a lot of people who are not on that level of consciousness. Im so greatfull to find this work. Because nothing works so deeply and longterm as this. Thanks for interesting theme and conversation. Also. People should bevefy wise in choosing their practice.
I found Dispenza’s work over 10 years ago. I found it to be very interesting and thought it might work for me. Initially it did, but then my system got completely blown apart. What he teaches is the opposite of what heals a dysregulated nervous system. He teaches you to separate yourself from your body, your environment, and even time itself….the exact things you should not be doing when you’re stuck in trauma, or dealing with CPTSD. Trauma already breaks those connections, and to heal trauma, one must get connected back to their bodies and their environment. It proved to be very dangerous for me. I would encourage people to be extremely careful and really do their due diligence before getting involved with those modalities. On the other hand, I have been working with your concepts, Irene, and I have done the 21 day program. It is has started to heal my system.
TRUTH! He teaches you to separate yourself from your body, your environment, and even time itself….the exact things you should not be doing when you’re stuck in trauma, or dealing with CPTSD. I AGREE! Joes work is Nothing like Irenes Work. It is dangerous in fact....
Maybe this is why it didn’t work for me. I already completely disassociate from my body to escape the pain.
Funny how different people have different experiences. His work helped me connect to my body and was through which I started to experience spontaneous somatic releases. Dispenza's work helped me understand what Itene Lyon teaches.
For me dr. Joe Dispenza's work completely transformed my life. I learn a lot from Irene too, so these modalities can complement each other, if you are curious enough and if it resonates with you. For some it will click and resonate, for some not. Having said this, the most I learn from self awareness and self observation - all the rest are tools I use. Knowledge that Irene shares is of the greatest value nonetheless
Yup same for me. I had horrible side effects from his breath work
Dr. Joe is the best! Changed my life and I’ll be forever grateful.
Thank you Irene. I'd like to think that if you (learn to) regulate your nervous system properly, and you keep doing this as a lifestyle, what Joe Dispenza does (or any other for that matter) is an added bonus. Ever since I came out of decades of freeze, and now learn to regulate, I have been so hungry for learning new stuff. I am devouring books on various subjects and I have to admit, one of Joe’s books is waiting for me on my Kindle 😊
I started with Joe's work 5 1/2 years ago now for complex trauma, blunt force trauma, brain injuries and chronic pain. It has helped me tremendously, yet like Irene says, it's an ongoing process. I don't consider myself a "success story" far from it...yet. But stages of relief and progress are felt and they're real. For me.
@@lisbethbird8268 I love your comment. The 'yet' will come, of this I have no doubt. Thank you ☺
@@artynegelen786 Thanks!
Dr. Joe’s work is phenomenal.
I guess what joe dispenzas teaches works for those who stick at it and truly believe and trust the process is why it worked for some and not others. I suppose the same reason why some will get better with your your work and some won’t. I am incorporating both your work and his because I truly want to. Change and get better. I believe in both and both practices make total sense to me. I think what you are both teaching is amazing work!
Spot on! Are they living the work? That is the difference.
I love your Edgar cayce passage! The moments of connection of all things feels like bliss! I’m committed to snip the illusions of separation within myself to be oneness…feels like my life work and path
I really enjoyed your perspective. I attended one of his 3 day events. It is very powerful doing the meditations in such a large group (he does do large events on purpose). At the event I was able to "override" the "resistance" of the body, mind, emotions etc... But when I practiced at home by myself I couldn't, the meditations themselves were triggering deep trauma and PTSD, of which spiritual abuse was a contributing factor.
There can be indoctrination in that environment, that I was then not good enough because I didn't have the "will power" to override what was happening and keep with the meditation. Not all the meditations are like that, but many are.
In my opinion these meditations can lead to spiritual bypass and possibly the addiction of chasing the high if the inner resources to do a particular style of practice aren't there. Through my personal experience of being highly disconnected and dysregulated his approach was more harmful than helpful.
Reconnecting to my body, myself, my environment and using the gentle approach to move out of dysregulation was part of my pathway to healing.
That said, I wouldn't dismiss what he has to say. He has a lot of wonderful information in his books and lectures, and I will continue to learn from him with discernment. But, I doubt I would do the meditations again. I have other meditation practices that work for me.
What other meditation types have you found helpful?
Which ones?
@@sistaschin I work a lot with awareness meditation, energy healing meditations, somatic practices and mantra and mudra meditations. Also, I am working my way through SBSM.
@@MEF7 Do you mean what do I practice now, or which of the dispenza meditations have I tried?
Really awesome & nuanced video Irene, thank you.
Its all about integrating the work gently into our everyday way of being. Through that we can sustainably heal and allow the healing to actually STICK and weave through our systems across all these layers! There us definitely a place in the world for higher activation group experiences...but for me I've found them a bit too much for my nervous system currently. Maybe once I have more regulation on board but maybe not! Who knows :)
And in my obs over the years, I've seen a lot of people approach high activation activities from a very dysregulated place hoping (likely unconsciously) that it will 'fix/save' them almost, I include some religious communities here too. And these things definitely can bring a lot of miraculous healing, however...where are they in months/years after that? A bunch quit and go back to their regular dysregulated state feeling a bit more mixed up on their journey. So for me its about the WAY in which we approach different modalities and spaces and if we have enough capacity to continually *be* with them to allow them to land. And we might not depending on where we are at in our journey!
At one point sincerely tried dispenza method.. to change my personality to heal my physical illnesses. I noticed that i just dont have what it takes 😂 im just not able to "change my personality" 😛
And doing those meditations every day.. i ve had times when it s possible for a while, i ve had times when its not possible. Sometimes i ve been months continuously so exhausted (chronic fatigue syndrome etc) that if i simply sit down i just pass out in less than a minute. That really doesnt support the neditating attempts.. 😖
Anyway, im working on the sbsm, i have all the logical reasons to believe in this method 👍👍👍
Joined your 21 day tuneup last year and could not even sit still long enough to get past day three lol! I am a long time seeker but very ungrounded and am going back to IFS work and will be ready soon. I really feel deep in my marrow it will soon be time to begin the 21 day tuneup again. Not sure if my wellness journey is linear but I do feel good about it now. Love that you tap into different dimensions and frequencies. I fall into the trap of believing that healing and wellness should look a certain way and I am learning that my creativity plays a huge part in breaking through some of the blockages. Hope this makes sense!
Yes I agree with the creativity thing. I guess that is why it's also a specific form of therapy. Learning to create, to enjoy being in that space of creating, no pressure, no right, no wrong, just creating our own worlds... our awareness in that moment ...completely absorbed... is so fulfilling and empowering. 😊
I’ve been to a Dr. Joe advanced retreat, and what he teaches is very similar to what you teach. You should go. I think you’d like it. 🥰
I fail to see the similarity between JD's and IL's work, maybe in that they're both trying to help us navigate the challenges that life inherently present us with on a daily basis. The first thinking mistake we all make is that this or that method is going to FIX our problem. I believe the best we can get from any methodology that resonates with us is the tools to navigate the challenges and constraints, not the removal of those constraints. These tools, when used accordingly can be so empowering that if effective can give us more agency and take us away from a position of victimhood, or the feeling that we are inescapably at the mercy of an unwanted life. If you ask me which I would chose between Irene and Joe I would probably chose Irene because she delivers her method through very easy to understand verbiage and very actionable homework. It is work but what is better work than that which we invest ourselves in for the better. Just the fact that wen can get invested in such self loving work can be a reward in itself, and again an empowering way to direct our energies.
It’s all very similar work. It’s calming the nervous system … bringing in safety.
@@lindsayh1502 That is "Not" what Irenes work is doing...calming, though in time doing her work of regulating our nervous system will bring us to a place of regulation
@@leticiadelgadillooh I thought that is exactly what her nervous system work is about. I have followed her for years and am a mindbody coach - love her stuff - it’s all about bringing in safety to the nervous system (through gentle somatics) 🥰
@@mauricioherrador7791 what you describe is inherent in both Irene Lyon’s and Dr. Joe’s philosophies. It’s all the same teachings. 😊
“Are they living the work?” That was powerful ❤
And that's exactly what Dispensa says, too.
I think that when you want to say anything about another method of healing you first must know what it is about, how it works and the studies that are available about it.
I work as a therapist like you. I am totally with you when you talk about continuing the work (what work it is that helps you) and not expect that you just let go after a period of time.
You could have made this video without the example of a man whose method you dont even know. Then your information was valid and honest.
Stay in clear information without prejudice so that clients with cptsd can make their own decisions (thats already very hard for this group!)
Hello @aams135, Sophia from Team Lyon here. Thank you for your comment. Your feedback is valuable and has been fully received and registered.
Irene's intention in sharing this case study was not to speak to or undermine the specific work that Joe Dispenza offers, but in response to a direct question she received where Joe Dispenza's work was used as an example in the question being asked. The intention of her overarching message was to explain why healing happens for some and not for others. In the video she points to these differences coming from how the individual utilizes any healing method with which they engage and not to any direct methods that Joe Dispenza offers, since, as she explains, she is not aware of the specific work he delivers.
We fully appreciate your comment and perspective on different healing methods and healers and we sincerely hope that this topic does not alienate you from the nervous system regulation work that Irene offers.
Please feel free to be in touch with any additional thoughts or feedback you wish to share.
I understand het intention. But to make her point it is absolutely not necessarily to mention a sort of therapy, a name or a method.
You can change the question in 'why does something methods work for one but not for the other'.
A name in the caption is influence. Even if you dont mean to do.
I so very much wish that your guidance was financially attainable for me. You are worth every single penny, and I'm SO grateful for your YT shares 🙏
Hi there. Thanks for your message here :)
Perhaps you have already moved through these, but if you haven't:
Have you move through my audio samplers that have practical exercises? You will find the audio samplers on this page: irenelyon.com/free-resources/ ...
We also have a YT playlist here with practical exercises:
th-cam.com/play/PL_tIcR-r0CU5Xss_Mq1buU-tWdYVQksjI.html
Some of my most advanced students once started with these, some of which were bed bound with complex PTSD at the start!! Keep up the learning! Irene.
Thank you. @@IreneLyon
I attended one of Joe Dispenza's advanced retreat and I had exactly the same question: how are the majority of attendee's doing in the long run? Like - really, honestly. Being one of them, I was very curious to observe how my expectations and all the build up hype will play out.
I met tons of people in that retreat for whom it was their 5th + time that they attend his retreats. As with everything: the moment we outsource the power of transformation/ shift to someone or something else, it becomes just another "addiction". Just an expensive one.
I asked people why do they think they keep returning to his events and paying big money for it (people travelled to the event from all over the globe to attend, so it becomes really costly)? Does it really, deeply shifts anything then? Or is it, in majority of cases, just a strong hit for some time and then it wears down, till the next time? I also saw people putting him on a pedestal and seeing him as authority without discernment and questioning. That also doesn't help at the end.
J. Dispenza encourages attendees to take responsibility for their shifts (which is a sane way to do it) and, at the same time, the setting of the retreat itself is built to support this interesting-intense vibe after which you truly feel as if something has changed. So it's interesting weaving of support and good old event setting in one place.
I'm always happy for people who really get fascinating results and, I'm not sure, whether they really work out that way in the long run.
My experience is the same.
I haven't attended a Dr Joe event, was in the application process for one a year or so ago. But it sold out very quickly and I missed out.
I have huge respect for him and his work and feel that he is doing this as a way of presenting to people the possibility of what humanity can be... of having people experience it. Some will manage to recreate themselves, some won't, but they had the opportunity to connect with the bigger self. And perhaps this sort of experience is the most promising one for bringing peace to humanity... for ending the cycle of wars.
I did the meditations for a while and it was terrible for me because it took me out of my body and made me feel wired and unsafe.
I know other people that had similar experiences
Same
Thank you Irene for your work. Integration and acceptance of healing is so important and cannot be done so easily. I am currently experiencing some effects from rapid healing that are to tough to assimilate.
Well I have a friend that healed his heart from a 95% irreversible fibrotic miocarditis using and applying breaking the habit of being yourself book more than 10 years ago. He is personal trainer and karate elite sports since then. The doctors said he will not able to even walk again cause his heart could explode at any moment but he healed I one year completely. This is how I met the work of Dr Joe, after knowing my friend's story 5 years ago and my friend was already healed years ago. Only the book, in his house and applying the meditation and the things every day until healed, he doesn't even follow the meditations anymore now
Joe’s teachings are very valuable. This feels a bit like click bait. Irene’s teaching/system has some value but only a small piece of the puzzle on my recovery journey.
I do believe in the miraculous things that happened to Joe’s students but I do have the feeling those miracles require doing his work for multiple hours each day for months on end. I just don’t think that’s sustainable for everyone of us.
Irene’s work doesn’t take that much of investment while still reaping ginormous benefits if you stick with it.
It doesn’t require that for everyone. It’s different for different people. I had a crazy moment of healing and only did it consistently for 2-3 weeks to get there.
@@missxjewel1246 I do think the more regulated one is the more results one can gain with Joe Dispenza's work. But indeed, I guess results vary and some people may have results rather quickly.
Wow.
It's not a competition, Irene.
As someone else mentioned in the comments, you just did yourself a huge professional and ethical disservice here by passing judgement on Dispensa's method whilst admitting you know nothing about it! If you did a modicum of research or read one of his books, you would find that this EG quote is actually very much in line with what he does. I mean, one of his key words is "coherence" - between the body, the mind, the heart, the soul, our environment. His retreats aren't mere expensive Tulumesque raves, and implying so passes a judgement on what he does AND the people who attend as "sorta shallow".
They very much encourage the attendees to read the books, do the work, the meditations, the breath work, and prepare themselves to get the best out of the retreats. You must have done a shorter retreat before doing the weeklong and advanced retreats: his message is exactly that you have to do the work and learn to stay coherent in between meditation sessions, in your day to day life. He readily admits that he still gets triggered several times a day, and finds the discipline and dedication to re-direct, as he teaches. It's all about mindfulness and a calm nervous system.
Most people readily know that nothing will stick if you don't do the work, practice until it's a new habit or reflex - it's the same with yoga, ice skating, playing the violin, driving, doing biofeedback or different forms of therapy. I'm not sure why you wouldn't just remind people of that simple fact, without going on a tangent about YOUR credentials, YOUR method and success story... when there was no competition or comparison implied in the original question. Disappointing! 😐
Actually I think it’s been proven man times that Joe doesn’t help people with trauma perhaps because he doesn’t seem to understand how it feels. I feel the same with Eckhart Tolle. There was a time where I was so traumatised that just sitting in the moment was incredibly painful and I couldn’t do it without rolling around in tears on the floor. That wouldn’t have been viable had I been sitting in Joe Dispenzas auditorium…! I remember immediately realising that I had to heal the trauma first. Later Joe Dispenzas meditations benefitted me greatly and was often the main thing stopping me from feeling depressed. Trauma is such a weird experience I think it’s very hard for people without trauma to understand. That’s why I think these teachers miss it out.
Hello @sophiemarcaurele , Sophia from Team Lyon here. Thank you for your comment. Your feedback is valuable and has been fully received and registered.
Irene's intention in sharing this case study was not to speak to or undermine the specific work that Joe Dispenza offers, but in response to a direct question she received where Joe Dispenza's work was used as an example in the question being asked. The intention of her overarching message was to explain why healing happens for some and not for others. In the video she points to these differences coming from how the individual utilizes any healing method with which they engage and not to any direct methods that Joe Dispenza offers, since, as she explains, she is not aware of the specific work he delivers.
We fully appreciate your comment and we sincerely hope that this topic does not alienate you from the nervous system regulation work that Irene offers.
Please feel free to be in touch with any additional thoughts or feedback you wish to share.
@Duckietwo hello I've been looking into Joe's material I've just done my first round of sbsm I'm feeling like in irene's work that isn't as much of a creating a vision of our future repetitively and I feel like that's something that I missing do you feel like these two things would be beneficial together for example coming back into the present moment and visualizing a future and dreaming ourselves into that future through meditation?
Hi! I'm also an sbsm student and I have found that after spending some time resourcing and feeling very connected, I allow myself and imagination to visualise and ponder exciting possibilities or scenarios. I think that imagination process is also part of "following impulse" and honouring our capacity to imagination and day dream and fantasise for future scenarios. I think the difference is when the visualising is happening consistently as a way of disconnecting from ourselves and mabe sparking up some freeze?
I notice that when I visualise or imagination future scenarios and I notice sensations that feel like some flight activation, then perhaps a priority is not daydreaming but connecting back to my body and moving in a way that shifts me into a more level neutral state, then if I feel like re visiting my imagination from that neutral place I allow myself some time but then give myself a boundary to stop and continue with another part of my day.
I hope this helps a little
I also notice that when I visualise and day dream from that neutral pleasant internal state, my body feels nice through the day dream and it kind of feels like a resource in itself, but if i notice I start to daze off or go a little too far then I might orient and stop the visualising. But I do allow it to happen because I don't want to repress my imagination just because I have used it previously to sustain a freeze response.
That sounds great.
Only probable stumbling block would be not believing it could work ..well from my p.o v. ❤
Joe Dispenza would agree with you I believe - the meditations makes up the work" and everyone in the JD community understand that if you dont continue the work the healing wont continue. How many hours of JD's work have you done yourself ? And why would anyone comment (and put his name in the heading of a video) on a body of work that you yourself have not done extensively ? I am confused ....
Hello, @handsdesigncollective3488 Sophia from Team Lyon here. Thank you for your comment. Your feedback is valuable and has been fully received and registered.
Irene's intention in sharing this case study was not to speak to or undermine the specific work that Joe Dispenza offers, but in response to a direct question she received where Joe Dispenza's work was used as an example in the question being asked. The intention of her overarching message was to explain why healing happens for some and not for others. In the video she points to these differences coming from how the individual utilizes any healing method with which they engage and not to any direct methods that Joe Dispenza offers, since, as she explains, she is not aware of the specific work he delivers.
We fully appreciate your comment and perspective on different healing methods and healers and we sincerely hope that this topic does not alienate you from the nervous system regulation work that Irene offers.
Please feel free to be in touch with any additional thoughts or feedback you wish to share.
That's a very important acknowledgement in the beginning - that there is no follow-up regarding testimonials.
That, to me, is a huge red flag that, no matter how well something works or the goodness of intention is, it is primarily marketing. And in the healing world, that is a very sad thing
Not true that there is no follow up. The events are studying groups there long term. Not everyone is a part of the long term studies taking place, but they are definitely studying and always have been doing long term research of Joe Dispenza work.
I see longitudinal data with Dr. Dispenza’s work. We don’t need to dis someone’s work when we have a great product.
Joe says the same... Meditation itself is not enough. A person must become conscious during their waking day. Learn how to self regulate - he doesn't teach this. His work is not about dissociation but connecting back to self. And of course, creating a new future. I love his love meditations.
I know of ppl who attended his retreat and felt great after but they went back to their toxic relationships and live back their unfulfilled lives. If something works for some but doesn't for some, it is not because the teaching. It is because a person's level of consciousness.
Love this.
I have question. Why do people who had a decent upbringing and are relatively well regulated not have to do all this kind of work, at least not like unregulated people do. As in incorporating all these intentional teachings into their lives permanently. How come they can go on and live a relatively well life or at least a regulated one, while we have to do all this life work of constant healing and intentional re coordination and re training of everything
It's unfair, isn't it? I hate it so much, but I have no other chance at a decent life. That's my cope 😢
To answer your question.. and this is my opinion, I don't claim to be right. A different perspective...The law of karma is real. Like gravity it does what it does without thinking. From a soul perspective we have had many incarnations where in bodies we do actions both good and bad. These actions have to be accounted for. A human life is a combination of good and bad based on these previous actions. Unfortunately we can't see this, it's not tangible and therefore most people dismiss this. It's the law of cause and effect in Physics or as you sow shall you reap in the Bible. In fact it is mentioned in all the scriptures.
So whilst on a human level we see that life is unfair, it in fact is just.
Look up Supreme Yogi on TH-cam it will give you some inspiration hopefully. Wishing you well 🙏🏻
@@robster7012 Are you saying I was a bad person who did bad things in a previous life and this is my atonement?
@@Miss-Hellcat666 we have all done bad things at different stages of our souls evolution. But we have also done good things. Ultimately what we see in our lives is 'paying' off (reaping) . That includes the good things as well.
YT obviously didn't like my first comment. It seems to have disappeared
Main question is if the regulation can be really attained.
I've been sober 3 years and never looked back 😁
With the 21 day nervous system course is it necessary to do it a few times to get results? I did it once and did like it but didn’t get the results I was hoping for.
Hello
@humblelovingsouls, Sophia here from Team Lyon. Thank you for your comment and for sharing about your experience with our courses.
To answer your question here are some ways to gain more from the 21 Day Nervous System Tune-Up course:
1. Begin again. Especially re-engage with the 9 neurosensory exercises.
These are designed to offer an embodied somatic experience of the education and concepts.
The neurosensory exercises offer a direct felt-sense experience of your somatic nervous system. With time we can become better at actually feeling and experiencing (and self-directing) our autonomic nervous system too! - plus in a way that is not survival-based, but with conscious thought and biological intelligence! Each time we practice any one of the exercises, we are beginning fresh, exploring anew, diving a bit deeper into our nervous system, shifting states and building capacity and regulation (which ripples out to all our biological systems...and this takes time).
The 21 Day course is not designed as a "one and done" - meaning, it can take a few rounds to have some of the essence and practical nature (as well as benefits) seep in. This is 100% normal for any new lifestyle practice.
All this to say, the 21 Day course is a beginning foundation and is designed to be repeated.
2. Re: Orienting. Keep playing around with and practicing orienting. It is similar, yet different, from how mindfulness is generally understood and practiced. Orienting builds a fuller spectrum of somatic + environmental awareness.
Most forms of mindfulness concentrate, typically, only on the inner experience and the internal sensations and thoughts etc. Whereas orienting, is about what some might call the 'holy trinity' of awareness + embodiment which is: somatic self and ALL its senses; the environment around us; PLUS integrating them both at the same exact time.
As we develop this capacity, we can become more responsive (rather than reactive), engaged, and regulated in our lives (in the good times and also during painful and challenging/stressful times). This orienting practice appears very simplistic in the beginning, however, it can become a very potent practice of awareness that supports us indefinitely.
Our hope is that as you continue the practices and education in the 21 Day course you'll recognize the material offered is much more in-depth and layered than the many free resources Irene offers.
We would love to suggest to practice orienting in more advanced settings: in a busy grocery store or a crowded café, out in a park, on the street, etc. After all, orienting is something that we, as mammals, are meant to be doing ALL the time. The audio exercise is meant as an introduction to the practice and in time, we want this to simply be our healthy human nature that is happening throughout our waking hours. So maybe that kind of daily, in-the-moment practice would be an interesting thing to explore, although you may be doing that already?
The same can be said of the other neurosensory exercises - all of them can be brought into our daily lived experience.
Thank you once again for your comment and we do hope you continue to ask questions and be curious with your internal and external experiences as you learn and practice moving forward.
@@IreneLyon thank you Sophia, I appreciate your very in depth response. Yes, I definitely want to do the 21 day course again. I do resonate with Irene’s teachings much more than others and I’ve researched and done many other teachings/modalities ect. Capacity is definitely an issue still which is not a surprise to me. I find it really hard to put myself into stressful/different situations without feeling over stimulated, faint or honestly just really strange. Still trying to navigate that as it is all coming from a fried ns and adrenal fatigue.
Joe did say in an interview (Lewis Howes I think) that getting the results to stick was a central problem. Perhaps a collaboration between Irene and Joe might be fruitful.
You should go to one of his event. You can’t really comment without knowing what he does in person xx
That’s not true. He has so much material online, and you can gauge whether it resonates with you or not.
@@kaylee7518it’s not the sane I promise x
I totally agree - if you haven't experienced his work why make a video about it ??
Hello @nk35101 , Sophia from Team Lyon here. Thank you for your comment. Your feedback is valuable and has been fully received and registered.
Irene's intention in sharing this case study was not to speak to or undermine the specific work that Joe Dispenza offers, but in response to a direct question she received where Joe Dispenza's work was used as an example in the question being asked. The intention of her overarching message was to explain why healing happens for some and not for others. In the video she points to these differences coming from how the individual utilizes any healing method with which they engage and not to any direct methods that Joe Dispenza offers, since, as she explains, she is not aware of the specific work he delivers.
We fully appreciate your comment and we sincerely hope that this topic does not alienate you from the nervous system regulation work that Irene offers.
Please feel free to be in touch with any additional thoughts or feedback you wish to share.
Hello @handsdesigncollective3488 Sophia from Team Lyon here. Thank you for your comment. Your feedback is valuable and has been fully received and registered.
Irene's intention in sharing this case study was not to speak to or undermine the specific work that Joe Dispenza offers, but in response to a direct question she received where Joe Dispenza's work was used as an example in the question being asked. The intention of her overarching message was to explain why healing happens for some and not for others. In the video she points to these differences coming from how the individual utilizes any healing method with which they engage and not to any direct methods that Joe Dispenza offers, since, as she explains, she is not aware of the specific work he delivers.
We fully appreciate your comment and we sincerely hope that this topic does not alienate you from the nervous system regulation work that Irene offers.
Please feel free to be in touch with any additional thoughts or feedback you wish to share.
hello
I did Joe's meditations, 2-3 hours a day for nearly a year. They didn't help me at all unfortunately (I have ME/CFS and multiple other issues).
I think his methods help you transcend trauma, but absolutely do not heal it. And if you have lots if trauma, as I do, I just don't think it can work. Maybe if you only have some, it can work.
Either way, I don't see it as permanent healing of root cause. I've heard of many people's diseases returning after they get back from retreats, because they go back to their old identities. Maybe you can get long term results if you're really careful about continuing the work forever.
Irene, such a shame you are indirectly dissing Dr Joe while it's clear from what you're saying that you don't even know what his method entails. Maybe just read what the requirements are for enrolling in his week-long.
I hadn't expected this kind of review from you, really disappointing.
Hello @sparklingdiva1111 Sophia from Team Lyon here. Thank you for your comment. Your feedback is valuable and has been fully received and registered.
Irene's intention in sharing this case study was not to speak to or undermine the specific work that Joe Dispenza offers, but in response to a direct question she received where Joe Dispenza's work was used as an example in the question being asked. The intention of her overarching message was to explain why healing happens for some and not for others. In the video she points to these differences coming from how the individual utilizes any healing method with which they engage and not to any direct methods that Joe Dispenza offers, since, as she explains, she is not aware of the specific work he delivers.
We fully appreciate your comment and we sincerely hope that this topic does not alienate you from the nervous system regulation work that Irene offers.
Please feel free to be in touch with any additional thoughts or feedback you wish to share.
The purpose of Joe dispenza is to bring a new consciousness to the mainstream. He and his teaching is perfect for that job, so let him do his job. Its like every other subject, you have beginner stuff then you have advanced stuff. You are obviously advanced and your whole channel is emernating with the frequency of "i know better then everyone else".
Its like noone has given you credit for your amazing work and discoveries, so im going to do that for you. Good job irene. You are so good. You have so much wisdom. You are very smart and you know the truth about healing better then everybody else.
Source did not put Joe Dispenza in that place because it did a mistake, nor with the people who follow his teachings. Just like everything else in this universe and awakening. When you have deeper understanding you will see it.
I don't know what video you watched but I find your comment totally unwarranted. In no way has Irene made a derogatory comment about Dr. Joe Dispenza or has delusions of grandeur about her own work. She just gave her perspective and answered a question about Dr. Joe Dispenza that was put to her. I find their teachings very similar and equally valuable. I wholeheartedly agree with her that every healing journey is an individual one and what works for some doesn't work for others.
I have a question, are you teaching nervous system regulation or in the field of somatic health? I’m just curious. I’ve taken all of Irene’s courses and I am a somatic movement guide certified in other methods. I took Irene’s classes to become trauma informed and it’s excellent. Also, I healed some of my own stuff along the way which was a big bonus.
As you mentioned Joes stuff is different and I don’t believe he calls himself a nervous system expert either.
It's not uncommon for experts in a particular field to offer critiques or comparisons, but it's essential to do so respectfully which Irene has done. However, perhaps not with a clear understanding of the his modalities.
Also our perspectives are shaped by our own experiences, biases, or personal preferences. And while they both may have valid points about the effectiveness of certain practices for particular individuals, it's important to recognize that healing is a deeply personal and individualized process.
So to finish, in the end I found her approach aligned with my own values and beliefs. And it inadvertently worked for me. Not coming from severe trauma, I find Joe’s approach interesting for other reasons, like you mentioned.
He seems like a classic con artist / charlatan. He speaks in word salad. This week seemed to say we can regrrow body organs 😐
It's happened couple times now. I don't have the reference links, but one case was an entire thyroid gland. Of course it's case by case and Dr. Joe thinks of it as "the four minute mile"...in that after the first person succeeds, more will follow because the pattern of possibility has been established in a non-physical dimension of reality. Many of his students by now have been able to put their cancers into remission and shrink or eliminate malignant tumors. Many I'm sure, have also tried to do that but not been successful. And many succeed but ultimately it doesn't "stick".
But after the first person, it became possible for others. Placebo effect is a powerful thing, and a real thing.
Yeah, sounds a little salad-like, agreed. But one thing I keep thinking, that might be more accessible: for a century or more, nobody, no medical field or doctor, believed that cartilage destroyed in osteoarthritis could ever be repaired. Hence the proliferation of joint replacement surgeries. But more and more I'm starting to see examples of people succeeding and a revival of consideration by medical professionals. (Maybe the ones who don't depend on joint replacement for their bread and butter?)
@@lisbethbird8268 you can tick every box of a charlatan with him. I'd be as happy as the next person if it was shown humans could regrow organs, but surely you can see that in the absence of providing proof of claims like this, it's meaningless
Nothing Joe or Bruce Lipton taught briught me any relief, healing or any positive "manifestation" in my life. I think maybe their methods are effective for people with little to no major trauma. Also, God is always absent from these teachings, and these courses cost an exorbitant amount of money. I don't know, but after years of trying and failing, you end up feeling like you must be broken in a way other people are not, and that's why none of these teachings work for you.
Its true. We don't need fixing. We're whole as we are. Thank you Mama/Dada God.
Hello, Sophia from Team Lyon here. Thank you for your feedback and for sharing about what is going on for you. Many of our students found Irene's work while feeling like what you described above. Irene's work is for those who want to learn the education of the nervous system and integrate the information into their lives. Her courses are designed to work with all types of trauma at the deep level of the nervous system to fundamentally change the way you are in relationship to yourself, others, and the environment around you. Many folks find this nervous system work, at its heart, is about becoming who YOU truly are and finally learning what it means to go from living in a state of survival, stress, and anxiety to a place of hope, possibility, and solid well-being.
If you're interested in learning more about your nervous system and how to work with it, we highly recommend Irene's free resources and mini-training, all housed under this link: irenelyon.com/free-resources/ Please feel free to reach out to our support inbox if you have any questions.
@@IreneLyon Thank you Sophia, I'm actually familiar with Irene Lyon's work and resources and find her and find that her methods a million times more effective than most of what's out there, specifically "manifestation" and many things new-age-y. My comment was about Joe Dispenza and Bruce Lipton, and many other well-known ones who fall under the same category. Most are snake-oil salesmen, and the rest while doing their best and following what they themselves believe to be truly useful, just don't offer tools that work for many many of us because we have more complicated traumas, and more pragmatic and less airy fairy methods are required. Irene is doing God's work and her channel has truly been a boon on my path of recovery. Wishing you many blessings!
@IreneLyon
Irene's work does not actively reach out to God and Christ tho.
This is not a small minus, so to speak.