John Behr | Exploring Personhood Conference 2022
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 เม.ย. 2022
- John Behr (University of Aberdeen) examines the earliest post-NT writers, especially Ignatius of Antioch and Irenaeus of Lyons, understood what it is to be a human being.
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Brilliant Father John. Thankyou
Well done Father John Behr, outstanding theology and amazing cross references between Genesis and the gospels. This is what we need to hear, the need to remember that human must not conform to trends, we are made in image of God, we conform to our God and his laws. The commandments are timeless, love the sinner but not the sin.
Thank you
How do we explain infant baptism in light of the necessity of our saying "let it be?"
one hour in, Father John speaking of the Trinity and 20th century misrepresenting it as relationship is a head turner for me. Let me sit at the feet and understand. We are then not made in the Image of God ( Genesis), but rather become in the Image through Christ as we say, Let it Be ( ☺️), take up our cross and follow Christ into death, transformative Life?
I ask because it seems , before thinking further in this path, when I see myself and others am I looking only at potential? Yet I want to hold on to, ‘that we will ALL be changed’ - ‘we will ALL bow’ -universally His and like Him. Ok Karen, trust the Love - right 🤓
Hi Karen,
I'm not sure if you're asking rhetorical questions, or if you would appreciate some answers as understood through Orthodox theology - which is the theology of Father John. So, forgive me if I am responding to you in error.
I hear you asking at least four questions, which I will answer according to my Orthodox understanding, but which will, ultimately, be, at best, insufficient. Again, my apologies.
Q1. Are we made in the image and likeness of God, or are we transformed into This image.
A1. Both. We are made in the image of God, and are, conditionally, transformed into Christlikeness. Being made in God's image allows us to noetically communicate with God through prayer. As we hear God's loving instruction to us and willfully follow the lead of the Holy Spirit, we become increasingly transformed into the likeness of Christ.
Q2. Is our life in Christ transformative?
A2. Absolutely, but conditionally. Our transformation into Christlikeness is not done with a simple sprinkling of whiffle dust.
Our transformation is conditional upon us participating with the Holy Spirit in a lifelong struggle against an enemy who does not want us to attain to Christlikeness, and against our own misguided thoughts, feelings and actions which also keep us from our transformation into the likeness of Christ. Father John refers to this struggle as our martyrdom.
Q3. Until we achieve Christlikeness, are we less than fully human: do we exist in a state of potentially human rather than actually human.
A3. Yes. Until we attain the state of Christlikeness, we exist in varying states of human incompleteness: God has created us to be infinitely more than any of us currently are.
Adam and Eve were also created as incomplete humans, and chose to try to find completeness on their own, rather than in cooperation with God: but, like us, they never lost the potential to call on God and get back on the true path.
An example of a human who was born incomplete, but whom, through martyrdom, struggled toward Godliness - in conjunction with the help of the grace of the Holy Spirit of God - and, so, achieved a degree of Christlikeness, was Mary, the Mother of God. She is considered the first person to become truly human during the time she spent on this earth (although, according to Jn 17:3, one never completely arrives at a full knowledge of God).
Q4. Will all people reach their full, earthly potential to become truly human?
A.4. Probably not, although all have the potential to become fully human.
The only way to become truly human is to reach Christlikeness, and the only way to reach Christlikeness is on a very specific path, as explained above. The portal onto this path is through faith in the God-Man Jesus Christ. Many of us choose to not direct our lives through the door of faith in Christ and along that path, so leave our time on earth as less than fully human.
Although some individuals write about what is called, "universal salvation," that is not the teaching of the Orthodox Church.
Blessed travels,
-Seraphima
@@soilnotdirt Thank you so much for this, for taking the time with my jumbled thoughts, organizing the questions and answering them.
What would you say about the 20th century’s misguided idea that the Trinity is a relationship. I think Father John mentions this about an hour in in the video, and if I heard that correctly it sparks a desire to understand it.
I so appreciate your response.
Cheers, K
@@karenscheffler5323 , the Trinity is most definitely a relationship: perichoresis. I think what Fr. John was getting at here is that the definition of "person/personhood" has developed/changed in the 20th century. I don't know all the details but I think perspectives of the ego and subconscious developed by Nietzsche and Freud might fall in that category. The significance and/or consequence of this changing definition of person doesn't seem to be explained in detail here but the fact still remains that the Trinity is a relationship.
Furthermore, we are indeed made in the image of the Trinity and their relationship/persons are reflected in our own being. Jesus is consubstantial with Abba and Holy Spirit and so are we! "Bone of my bones, flesh of my flesh" (Genesis 2:23). David Hart's work in "You Are Gods" might be a good place for further reference.
@@burningringofire22 Thank you for helping me along the way, Daniel. Hart’s book is on my wish list!
This may or may not help or give greater insight. However, I have dwelt and meditated on this thought for a bit or time and find myself more and more doing so. Those who reject Christ and disobey the gospel will end up less than human, as beasts of the field. Psalm 49 seems to point in that direction. Is Hell a place where the image of God is stripped away from those who end there?