@crazzynez Well no, anyone scouted early double gas, no expo would expect a huge push, they will most likely delay their expo and get a way to scout what is going on (obs or hallucination phoenix) before expanding. It is a very all-on build but it might work if possible because zerg pumps units a lot faster than the gateways
@kamikrazi123 I think the video tells you what you need to know already. If it can work not too bad-ish against minigun without even refining the build, then after he refine it, it is possible. I don't see what your argument is at all. All the strat I listed were most used in tournament before. Idra did the early spine crawler push with overlord speed, July did a quick nydus worm for busting FFE protoss etc. Idra used to do early burrow roache
@CaelisGrey Lol? You can only reaserch warpgate on one core at a time, it's not like you can build two evo chambers and research attack lvl 1 on both of them. Also, you can just gue up the other core that the toss builds, he still would have to cancel it on 75% and star researching it again...
@KamuiRyu88 Yeah, and one banshee is 150 minerals + 100 gas, and cloak is 200 minerals + 200 gas. If you can shut down +300 gas worth of investment with 300 minerals, I'd say you got the better deal. It's no different than the way zerg expands vs banshee when they're still on hatch tech. If you need to scout, just get hallucination instead.
@fakkeRICH Warpgates allow you to warp in one unit at the time per gate, and are used to create armies at a faster rate than making one unit at a time with the slow gateway times. :)
@KamuiRyu88 One cannon in your mineral line will give you sufficient detection and enough time to tech switch if the terran invests heavily enough into banshees
i guess you're right. I didn't think about cannons... However you could probably still contaminate for a while after cannons are built because overseers are pretty tanky. Would work even better with overlord speed
It seems like they could just keep up with production anyway, or add another gateway if they need to after you invested so much into delaying the warp gate.
I was thinking about that. It's true that not only would it delay WG but also give you scouting. But the dilemma is whether or not its worth the early gas investment which could be going into defensive/ offensive units.
@KamuiRyu88 I get your point, allucination is amazing. But vs Terran is always worth getting obs instead of allucination. A bunch of cloacked banshee and Ghost will shout down every kind of aggression an your map presence. Those 2 units force you to get robotic for observers so it's like not really worth it. I like my allucination scouting, but it's still not like obs. And still the allucination comes always too late. If you want to scout just go 1-2 gate robo and you have your intel way faster.
Not possible anymore since the energy required is 125, up from 75, those last 25% of the warp tech are spent on waiting for the overseer to get the energy up... awesome... :(
@TheJapaneseboy12345 patch 1.4 made the spell 125 energy now :( cool idea tho. i have no idea why they changed the energy. that spell wasnt used in ladder or in turnys by pros.
@czarchasm2 One cannon is 150 minerals (a gateway) and it doesn't scout your opponent base. It's not worth it. And when you don't go robotic you usually do 1-3 gate expo. A fast banshee kills that ez or blocks you in the base for long enough to get the T the advantage. If you build a random forge and 2 cannons in each mineral line you're just wasting minerals. A robotic plus a couple of obs does the job and it's 10 times more usefull since you can scout with the observers. In PvT you need robo.
@czarchasm2 Allucination is 100/100 and doesn't reveal cloacked units. Yes you can scout all day long but you need to keep getting allu phoenix to do that. Observer are way better then allucination in general since you can park them on the corner of the map and scout for drops or scout an imminent attack. Plus in late game you need obs vs cloack ghost. You saw what TorZain can do with a couple of them if there is no obs around. You need robotic vs T end of disscussion and is not for colossi.
@Sydberg I tried to share my problem on a zerg race in hopes to find maybe some help, or indication to where I should search for good tutorials on how to improve my zerg game, cause its the only race I enjoy playing. But no...people get over exited and start bashing on someone's comment.
@KamuiRyu88 So you let the possibility of ghosts and banshees dictate your entire PvT strategy? If you go with council, you can just use hallucinations to scout, and proxy pylons around the map to watch for drops. If you go with stargate tech, your army itself would be sufficient for map control. If you don't see a ghost academy or a tech lab on a starport, then why feel like you're forced to get observers? In the mid/late game, you can always add on a robo to your current tech.
@paoxjus it takes 5 OVERSEERS to continuously contaminate a building. if it's a 4 gate you need 20 OVERSEERS 3 gate expo you need 15 OVERSEERS even a 2 gate expo you need 10 OVERSEERS which would cost (1500 minerals and 1000 gaz) do you get it now ?
I need to use Contaminate more. It is powerful, distracting, and a piece of the army that is never used. Though I did play one game where I used it ZvZ, and he counter contaminated me when he saw it. Mass contaminate would spawn the greatest micro battles ever if people ever used it.
a one base version would just die, but i think if you tried to work in having a few over seer's to stalll WG research for a bit then it could be useful, also doesn't contaminate cost more energy now? so you'd need the overseers really fast for them to save energy to be able to contamnate....
@Telanhzan yes but since the Zerg is still on one base you can easily have enough units to fend off the roaches that have to come. or is it viable to expand while doing this strat?
@xXstrIker8Xx I actually tried doing this for Day9's funday monday a while ago to stop a 4 gate. With recent warpgate nerf this could actually work though (was too slow) 13 Gas 13 Pool 16 Lair 16 Zerglings x2 18 Extractor 17 Overlord 18 Zergling Speed 23 Roach Warren 22 Overlord x2 (? Wrote x2 but doesn't seem necessary) Rally 3 overlords to your opponent's base and make a queen and 3 overseers as soon as your lair completes. Pretty sure I attempted a 3 roach speedling rush from here.
@tjtomax you would need a macro hatch and an extra queen and by the time you get that warpgate research is completed and over... lings on a single hatch is weak at this stage of the game.
it wouldn't have to be perma, and I'm pretty sure 5 isn't enough, it takes 5 Sentries to maintain a spell that lasts 15 seconds and costs 50 energy, so a spell that takes 30 seconds can't cost more than 100 energy to be maintained by 5. but even if you could just significantly delay WG then it would be useful, and 5 overseers would basicly give you omnipitance on what your opponent is doing.
Definitely not 1 base. I haven't actually tried doing an exact build of it, but ideally i could segue into it after a standard early 3rd base, but possibly slightly delayed because of earlier gas mining. If the energy nerf makes it so that I can't perma-delay a building with 5 overseers, then its probably nonviable.
Looks a nice build but alot of P players are using a chrono stalker on after the zea to apply pressure. I think that can be a trouble since you need 4 overlords near the base of the p payer to do this. But I guess if refined it can work on a boX
instead of roaches you should go w/ speedlings instead. could've reinforced much faster and 3 gate w/ no warpgate means they cant get downt he ramp so at least you'll kill nat. but you might not be able to actualyl kill them off.
@KamuiRyu88 late tech and insufficient scouting options. You p and t have options of rushing tons of options and we have to scout perfectly to hold off. You still see shit like that in pros' playing.
@Brazenhope oh well thx a lot. You opened my eyes. I guess I am stupid cause I don't spam, I just play a game and win almost every single ladder match as a protoss, but I want to play zerg, so I guess I am stupid.
@paoxjus oh please... invest into 4 overseers (600minerals400gaz) just to make the expansion harder to defend if you are not playing against a bronze it's insta lose.
@kamikrazi123 Have you ever played Brood War? Oh btw I see alot of pro gamers actually do poor scouting. The lack of options are in the early game but in the late game you have some good stuff to work with between overlord speed, overseers, creep spread etc. Btw you're let's talk about lacking options, did you ever played a safe PvT without Robotic? You know how it feels when the cloack banshe destroys your mineral line =(
Don't think it was ever practical. It went from 7 overseers for constant block to 9. Still a ridiculous number. However, I do want to implement contaminate into more of my games. It could be great on a push where you just need to keep him from warping out reinforcements.
back in the days when it was fun watching Destinys stream
You never know when the good days are until their gone
yeah
@@Fuck_Anime yeah
@@sc2bronzeplayer yeha
Yeah
I did this in ladder and some dude didn't know what contaminate did so he killed his own robo.
amazing
whos here 11 years later
Sounds so chill when Destiny is hanging with his friends on teamspeak
ye
@crazzynez
Well no, anyone scouted early double gas, no expo would expect a huge push, they will most likely delay their expo and get a way to scout what is going on (obs or hallucination phoenix) before expanding.
It is a very all-on build but it might work if possible because zerg pumps units a lot faster than the gateways
Gotta love the beautiful sound of those Cherry MX blue switches. I have them on my Ducky 9008 and they really make typing and gaming sound amazing.
@kamikrazi123
I think the video tells you what you need to know already. If it can work not too bad-ish against minigun without even refining the build, then after he refine it, it is possible. I don't see what your argument is at all. All the strat I listed were most used in tournament before. Idra did the early spine crawler push with overlord speed, July did a quick nydus worm for busting FFE protoss etc. Idra used to do early burrow roache
@nbaumg It's because they made overseers cost half the minerals and gas so they had to adjust
I ALWAYS MISS THE GOOD STUFF
"You did not just do this build and call me bad. That didn't happen"
Chad is such a baller. 1 gate expos vs zerg. 2 gate expos vs terran. So good.
@Ryno4269a yeah, doesnt take away from the fact that it is called the ice fisher build.
That was intensly good. He even forgot about the overseers near his base!!
@CaelisGrey Lol? You can only reaserch warpgate on one core at a time, it's not like you can build two evo chambers and research attack lvl 1 on both of them. Also, you can just gue up the other core that the toss builds, he still would have to cancel it on 75% and star researching it again...
I was wondering when this would be posted.
@KamuiRyu88 Yeah, and one banshee is 150 minerals + 100 gas, and cloak is 200 minerals + 200 gas. If you can shut down +300 gas worth of investment with 300 minerals, I'd say you got the better deal. It's no different than the way zerg expands vs banshee when they're still on hatch tech. If you need to scout, just get hallucination instead.
@fakkeRICH Warpgates allow you to warp in one unit at the time per gate, and are used to create armies at a faster rate than making one unit at a time with the slow gateway times. :)
@Pand0rk they can still use their normal Gateways and CHronoboost.
@KamuiRyu88 One cannon in your mineral line will give you sufficient detection and enough time to tech switch if the terran invests heavily enough into banshees
destiny is pretty cool guy he makes fun builds and doesn't afraid of anything
@Telanhzan Have you seen a one-base zerg recently? They can push out humongous amounts of shit that would make you weep.
i guess you're right. I didn't think about cannons... However you could probably still contaminate for a while after cannons are built because overseers are pretty tanky. Would work even better with overlord speed
It seems like they could just keep up with production anyway, or add another gateway if they need to after you invested so much into delaying the warp gate.
@prospineshank
That leaves them at a defensive advantage. Protoss loses a lot of offensive mobility without warp tech.
@DreIs1337 well that would make it even easier because you have more energie on overseers when the research starts....
I'd love to see Destiny whip out the DERP build at a major event with Day9/Wheat casting. Get them in the blazers saying "Here comes the DERP build!"
I was thinking about that. It's true that not only would it delay WG but also give you scouting. But the dilemma is whether or not its worth the early gas investment which could be going into defensive/ offensive units.
@KamuiRyu88 I get your point, allucination is amazing. But vs Terran is always worth getting obs instead of allucination. A bunch of cloacked banshee and Ghost will shout down every kind of aggression an your map presence. Those 2 units force you to get robotic for observers so it's like not really worth it. I like my allucination scouting, but it's still not like obs. And still the allucination comes always too late. If you want to scout just go 1-2 gate robo and you have your intel way faster.
This would work so fucking well, but you need 4 of them to permanently do it.
The fourverseer hit squad.
same here, MY friend did not know, what the green thing on the corruptor is, so he killed his 3 3 3 Battlecruisers and 3 3 3 Thors
Not possible anymore since the energy required is 125, up from 75, those last 25% of the warp tech are spent on waiting for the overseer to get the energy up... awesome... :(
@TheJapaneseboy12345 patch 1.4 made the spell 125 energy now :( cool idea tho. i have no idea why they changed the energy. that spell wasnt used in ladder or in turnys by pros.
@czarchasm2 One cannon is 150 minerals (a gateway) and it doesn't scout your opponent base. It's not worth it. And when you don't go robotic you usually do 1-3 gate expo. A fast banshee kills that ez or blocks you in the base for long enough to get the T the advantage. If you build a random forge and 2 cannons in each mineral line you're just wasting minerals. A robotic plus a couple of obs does the job and it's 10 times more usefull since you can scout with the observers. In PvT you need robo.
@czarchasm2 Allucination is 100/100 and doesn't reveal cloacked units. Yes you can scout all day long but you need to keep getting allu phoenix to do that. Observer are way better then allucination in general since you can park them on the corner of the map and scout for drops or scout an imminent attack. Plus in late game you need obs vs cloack ghost. You saw what TorZain can do with a couple of them if there is no obs around. You need robotic vs T end of disscussion and is not for colossi.
@Sydberg I tried to share my problem on a zerg race in hopes to find maybe some help, or indication to where I should search for good tutorials on how to improve my zerg game, cause its the only race I enjoy playing. But no...people get over exited and start bashing on someone's comment.
@AzureDrag0n1 yeah. it would be in fact 350m and 500 gaz including lair. Warpgate research is 50/50 anywayz lol
@3v3r1n he has a replay manager thing but its in korean it auto saves and names his replays for him
@KamuiRyu88 So you let the possibility of ghosts and banshees dictate your entire PvT strategy? If you go with council, you can just use hallucinations to scout, and proxy pylons around the map to watch for drops. If you go with stargate tech, your army itself would be sufficient for map control. If you don't see a ghost academy or a tech lab on a starport, then why feel like you're forced to get observers? In the mid/late game, you can always add on a robo to your current tech.
But the thing is he has to scout the 3 gate expo or 1 gate expo first and by then Destiny would have already done a standard Zerg fast expand.
@paoxjus it takes 5 OVERSEERS to continuously contaminate a building.
if it's a 4 gate you need 20 OVERSEERS
3 gate expo you need 15 OVERSEERS
even a 2 gate expo you need 10 OVERSEERS which would cost (1500 minerals and 1000 gaz)
do you get it now ?
I need to use Contaminate more. It is powerful, distracting, and a piece of the army that is never used. Though I did play one game where I used it ZvZ, and he counter contaminated me when he saw it. Mass contaminate would spawn the greatest micro battles ever if people ever used it.
Snute did this once in a massive HotS Roach War. It got him ahead enough to win.
a one base version would just die, but i think if you tried to work in having a few over seer's to stalll WG research for a bit then it could be useful, also doesn't contaminate cost more energy now? so you'd need the overseers really fast for them to save energy to be able to contamnate....
@Telanhzan yes but since the Zerg is still on one base you can easily have enough units to fend off the roaches that have to come. or is it viable to expand while doing this strat?
@xXstrIker8Xx I actually tried doing this for Day9's funday monday a while ago to stop a 4 gate. With recent warpgate nerf this could actually work though (was too slow)
13 Gas
13 Pool
16 Lair
16 Zerglings x2
18 Extractor
17 Overlord
18 Zergling Speed
23 Roach Warren
22 Overlord x2 (? Wrote x2 but doesn't seem necessary)
Rally 3 overlords to your opponent's base and make a queen and 3 overseers as soon as your lair completes. Pretty sure I attempted a 3 roach speedling rush from here.
Love how both comments are exactly the same
@tjtomax you would need a macro hatch and an extra queen and by the time you get that warpgate research is completed and over... lings on a single hatch is weak at this stage of the game.
check the date on this video.
back then the FFE wasn't standard
@nevadie133 Because roaches are very powerful regardless of stalkers doing extra damage, and roaches don't do extra damage.
The ice fisher. -cower
it wouldn't have to be perma, and I'm pretty sure 5 isn't enough, it takes 5 Sentries to maintain a spell that lasts 15 seconds and costs 50 energy, so a spell that takes 30 seconds can't cost more than 100 energy to be maintained by 5. but even if you could just significantly delay WG then it would be useful, and 5 overseers would basicly give you omnipitance on what your opponent is doing.
This is. . . .
GENIUS!
you need to try this again on the most recent stuff
RAWFLE! Destiny's everlasting research prevention. PERFECT
@Sydberg Highly doubt your apm is 150 in plat without spam.
The base concept could but the follow up would have a hard time working if he just pops down 2 or so more cannons.
Definitely not 1 base. I haven't actually tried doing an exact build of it, but ideally i could segue into it after a standard early 3rd base, but possibly slightly delayed because of earlier gas mining. If the energy nerf makes it so that I can't perma-delay a building with 5 overseers, then its probably nonviable.
the herp derp shuffle
Destiny's
Everlasting
Research
Prevention
....brilliant.....
Looks a nice build but alot of P players are using a chrono stalker on after the zea to apply pressure. I think that can be a trouble since you need 4 overlords near the base of the p payer to do this. But I guess if refined it can work on a boX
@TheTauren13 That's exactly what I said. Not sure what you're trying to prove.
instead of roaches you should go w/ speedlings instead. could've reinforced much faster and 3 gate w/ no warpgate means they cant get downt he ramp so at least you'll kill nat. but you might not be able to actualyl kill them off.
@KamuiRyu88 late tech and insufficient scouting options. You p and t have options of rushing tons of options and we have to scout perfectly to hold off. You still see shit like that in pros' playing.
only problem is that the protoss can jsut build units out of the gateways:/
the "Broverseer":
Similar to the Overseer, but with a +100 Swag Upgrade.
Destiny's Everlasting Research Prevention build!
AKA
DERP buil!
@Brazenhope oh well thx a lot. You opened my eyes. I guess I am stupid cause I don't spam, I just play a game and win almost every single ladder match as a protoss, but I want to play zerg, so I guess I am stupid.
@Sydberg Zerg is hard to master. Lower level Zerg players are easy wins for the opponent, but Diamond+ players usually pray they don't face a Zerg.
@prospineshank well, you could pretty much just mass ling pressure them after warpgate tech has been stopped. eventually you'll over run them :D
@xXstrIker8Xx you got a video of it, why you would need tutorial when u can take note YOURSELF by watching the video >.>
you need 6 actually.... If you get 4, they won't be able to regen enough energy in time. but that works for perma.
derping on the ladder is awesome.
what a legend.
"I think I need more broverseers to make thos work though..."
Need 5 to perma goop so if you fuck up your behind. Will try to perfect it.
no dud, if this build becomes popular that would make me a super sad pandatoss
LONG AWKWARD SILENCE: 6:36
@Wunji1 Because you are putting a new condom on his warp tech each time it bursts!!!! haha
@paoxjus oh please...
invest into 4 overseers (600minerals400gaz) just to make the expansion harder to defend
if you are not playing against a bronze it's insta lose.
did you just say yeast infection? around 2:15
@guardianofnature1 Yes, but that's ineffective and bad. Takes a long time to press out units in time for a push.
day9 should do a "steal this build" on this
You best be herpin' before you derp.
@kamikrazi123 Have you ever played Brood War? Oh btw I see alot of pro gamers actually do poor scouting. The lack of options are in the early game but in the late game you have some good stuff to work with between overlord speed, overseers, creep spread etc. Btw you're let's talk about lacking options, did you ever played a safe PvT without Robotic? You know how it feels when the cloack banshe destroys your mineral line =(
@CagedDwarf Amazing name
Don't think it was ever practical. It went from 7 overseers for constant block to 9. Still a ridiculous number. However, I do want to implement contaminate into more of my games. It could be great on a push where you just need to keep him from warping out reinforcements.
*normal overseer *FLIES* (facepalm) near broverseer*
@Monthral1 Yes, you are damn right, because its typical for Protoss in PvZ to go 14 gas 14 pool build against Zerg... /EndOfIrony
This build makes me want to switch back to Zerg just to try it.
DERP
Destinys
Everlasting
Research
Prevention
with how few people use contaminate, I'm not surprised by this haha.
wtf is that sound when the game ends
I need more broverseers.
i guess this build is impossible now seeing how the puke thingy spell is... 125 energy? idk i hell of a lot more then it was in this patch
wait what does a warpgate do????
@saldana787 You saw his APM slipping so we all know what that means ^^
use overseers for vision on high ground too :)
@aznhalowannab why does he have it ?
You must have seen that one on facebook, Huh?
*normal overseer walks near broverseer*
*explodes*
=)
Which means the Protoss wastes an extra 150 mins and has to waste an extra 210 GTS
The build doesn't work any more though, so this is all speculation
did he ever use the DERP again?