xisumavoid I always do away with that rule. All it does is give the person who played worse a trivial way to win and makes people overly careful when they're on the 8-ball.
Dave Power #6 as far as i know, you only lose when you make a foul and potting the 8 at the same time. if you simply pot the white it's just a regular foul
hallowurm I think you're right, according to two sets of official rules I just looked at. I'd still dismiss the auto-lose for scratching when the 8-ball is pocketed, but I had the official rules wrong on this. Thanks.
@@lolioliol360 Yes, that's the cheat and that's why there hasn't been a single game without cheating. Without that cheat, there would've been a game without cheating.
Now if Jacob never plays again, not only will he be the first person to beat someone at Loop, he'll also be known as the first person to beat the inventor, and he'll have a record of a 100% win ratio.
A better rule than an instant loss for whoever pots the cue ball would be the person who _didn't_ pot the cue gets to place it on the other focus point, and take an easy shot.
Sean, while that is amusing, the proposal is a lot more elegant (and probably quite a bit more difficult) than a regular ball-in-hand. Instead of starting wherever one wants in a certain region, one starts by default in a universal sweet spot. Starting in the empty focus point, solutions based on either of the balls hitting the wall once will always line up perfectly so that the paths of the two balls are mathematically identical paths shifted in time. Such shots would probably be a lot harder than they seem, but their elegance is undeniable. Furthermore, I would argue that the current rule is not as harsh as many seem to think. After all, there are just three other balls on the field from the beginning, and a single hole to get them in. I suspect cupping the white is a lot less frequent in loop than in billiards to begin with.
Procyon B. But a problem arises if the focus point is not empty. You need a way to manage that condition. I would probably suggest a circle of radius equal to a ball diameter around the focus point within which the contact-patch of the ball can be placed.
bigglessy that gives me a idea, a spherical glass chamber where the balls inside are equally buoyant to water so there is a 3d version of this, maybe the hole would be a ring instead.
Joey Fogarty there are many problems with that. how are you gona play that under water, and since water is basically uncompressable; would be prettu hard to get zem ballz movin' (not really a problem doe...)
***** yeah, probably, and a rule that states that the table gets reset if you dont hit exactly what you called before or something, just to make it more of a challange
Sir Zoidberg I want to see the robit not even look at his cards, and win a game of poker with a hand of 5 kings, one of which is a coaster that says "King of Beers", which still counts in the house rules.
Considering that it is an ellipse, I imagine that it would work for any ellipse. So, this is a pool table that you could resize to fit whatever space you need.
GuyWithAnAmazingHat It's certainly interesting, and I would love to play sometime, but I doubt it would ever make money. The cost of manufacturing an ellipse table, in wood, of that size would be crazy on a large scale.
Never really were intrigued by pool, but this seems like big fun. Let's ask the Klein Bottle guy if he got some free time to manufacture and sell these tables. He'd have to build a bigger robot though to carry them around :D (BTW: Awesome acapella)
NorWestern Eh, maybe in the days of manual *hand* labor. Now, they'd just find the formula for an ellipse they like, scale it up or down, and throw it into a cad reading lazer/waterjet cutter and off you go... Eliptical loop table in just a few hours probably.
"You need to hit the ball as if it was coming from the point - " YES WE GET IT! Do you have to explain that every time it is his turn? Leave the poor nephew alone.
Please share some blueprints/dimensions for this table, and how it was made! I think the hole needs to be just slightly bigger though. I wonder how much money I could hustle from people with trickshots before they catch on to the fact it's cheating using physics?
I now have the sudden urge to go create my own miniature version of Loop out of a smaller piece of wood or plastic, using marbles instead of pool balls. This is such an ingenious concept, and the game has extremely simple rules, which would allow it to become a popular game if it was easy enough to produce. Thanks for putting so much effort into making these videos very high-quality and informative.
Not really. It'll have pi/4 (78.5%) as much area as a rectangular pool table, but it'll have the same dimensions, so moving it through doors will be just as difficult.
MenwithHill Gravity would have to work differently, or the surface of the Klein bottle would need to be ferrous and the ball a magnet while in a low gravity environment, or something along those lines. You wouldn't be potting the ball, it would probably use carom scoring of some sort similar to snooker.
taenami Than make it harder... the border is made out of different materials with different hardness. Like 1/4 of the border is made out of rubber, 1/4 is marble etc.
daniel tabin Nah, when they showed the diagrams with arrows they weren't precise. You would have to make the cue ball hit the other ball at the point that would be the center if the cue ball were on the focus. It isn't that simple.
In American Pool (Not Snooker), pocketing the cue ball is called scratching. You don't lose the game, but the next player gets to position the ball where they want in the defined starting area.
ModernGameArmy But according to most house rules, pocketing the cue ball while going for the 8 ball is considered a loss, and seeing as how Loop is not an official sport, and how they make up rules as they go, it makes the most sense for them to include that rule
Question: Have there been any attempts to mass produce this as an actual pool "loop" table product? The game looks equally as fun as pool if not for different reasons, the table takes up considerably less space than a normal pool/snooker table making it a viable option for people who don't have vast open spaces in their home (which is most of us), and it's remarkably more simple to pick up than other table games.. Why not mass produce it? I'm damn sure that if people knew about this and it was made affordable then they would buy it, I know I would for sure and I'm not even a huge pool/snooker fan.
it's only a game lose if you pocket the cue ball AND the 8 ball. a pocket fowl on the 8 ball is just a normal pocket foul, and is play with normal pocket foul rules. (typically ball in hand for your opponent, a pulling a ball for you.)
That's the international championship rule, but usually in bar pool and some championships based on bar pool rules, a foul in the 8 ball shot means a loss.
Jonatas Silveira Baldo not just international. basically every recognized professional billiard group, nationally and international, use the same rule. you are correct that most bars you go to will use the "game loss if you scratch on the 8" rule, but atleast half the bars I've gone to also use the "it's ball in hand if you miss and don't hit atleast 3 rails" rule, and my personal favorite the "you didn't call that cross table bank shot, so clearly that wasn't what you were planning on doing, so now it's my turn, and I get ball in hand." rule. basically, people in bars have no idea how to play 8 ball. or straight pool. or 9 ball. or 7 ball.
What a great looking game! I can see where this could be a great addition to any bar without room for a full pool table. Plenty of options for other game variations too.
This seems like it would be a way more user friendly game of pool because you know exactly where you need to hit it. I think that this will become a million dollar idea if it gets more notice.
If the hole was slightly bigger (so that how hard you hit it didn't matter as much) This would be an amaaaaazing training tool for real snooker/pool! I find the hardest part of snooker is being able to see from behind the white where exactly you need to hit the other ball, this is a way of confirming to you that you hit it perfectly or not
As a pocket billiards player and hustler, I want to play this game so badly I can't even put it into words. Make one of these tables for me, and I will gladly purchase it.
I think this is great. The "marker" spot means that you can always work out the required angle to hit the object ball, through visual angular deduction. It makes it that little bit easier than it first appears. There is a future for this, i'm sure.
The actual rules of pool say that you can reposition the cue ball wherever you want after you pot the cue ball. But if you pot the 8-ball (Black) before all your other balls are gone OR if you pot the 8-ball alongside with the cue ball, you automatically lost.
R3Testa no, it's not different at all. if you pot the cue ball, the enemy can reposition it anywhere. if you pot the 8-ball AND the cue ball, you lost.
8-ball rules vary widely. Check the APA/CPA rules, and you'll see "[11]e. When playing the 8-ball, you scratch. You lose whether or not you pocket the 8-ball."
R3Testa Never heard of that rules (I thinks it's a bit ridiculous). That's probably because I play by the WPA-Rules. "The shooter loses if he (a) fouls when pocketing the eight ball; (b) pockets the eight ball before his group is cleared; (c) pockets the eight ball in an uncalled pocket; or (d) drives the eight ball off the table (These do not apply to the break shot.)"
If you add a bit of back spin to the cue ball, it would give the next ball forward spin which will help with the way that it banks off the wall (in simpler words, a ball tends to keep the entering and exiting angle equal when you have a bit of top spin on it)
MichaelKingsfordGray I don't know if its still there, but there used (20+ years ago) to be a hexagonal rotating table in a pub in near Box near Bath, UK where there was no room for a normal table. The player always stood in the same place and you rotated the table to the angle you wanted. It worked, but if you moved the table to fast all the balls would move.
jca111 There have been plenty of octagonal pool tables. In fact, I have one myself. That is, bumper pool tables. I assume that you mean a octagonal standard table. There are also other shapes of tables out there, and also other types of them. I think it was Tom Scott who had a video on bar pool, another awesome billiard game.
Getting the ball into the pocket also depends on the spin that the Q ball causes the colored ball to have when the cue ball is coming from any direction that has an angle OR when the cue ball is hit with a spin (like when the cue doesn't strike the cue ball directly in the center). This spin will cause the colored ball to deviate from the target as it travels on the felt at low speed and highly deviate when it hits the rail. You can't just think of hitting the ball as if it were coming from the focus point, you have to keep in mind the spin induced.
You already noticed, and rightfully so, that speed affects the bounce angle on the bank. However there's more to it. Namely an effect called throw. To be more precise: Spin induced throw (SIT) and Collision induced throw (CIT). The latter especially plays a role in most bank shots unless they are "straight on" and warrants adjustment on the bank angle.
Hunter Long How is your dad being a bouncer in anyway relevant? While it's true pool tables are more common in bars, that just means you might have played it more. Most people that play it casually in a bar/pub don't follow many of the basic rules of pool.
Swiftix If you are going for the 8 ball, if you pot the 8 ball and cue ball at the same time, game over. If you pot the cue ball but not the 8-ball, it's just ball in hand for the other person
Numberphile I just watched the video again, and I agree, that in your edit, there are almost no straight cut shots. I also think that a good safety play (provided safeties are allowed) will ensure that regular cut shots are few and far between. Still, given the slightest chance, even a semi-decent pool player, will run out of the two balls-if cut shots are allowed-almost every time. Damn cool concept, though, this whole thing. Damn cool.
suddenly I feel myself ported back to the 19th century, in some high-society club or ball room, surrounded by noblemen eager to play this new game everybody is talking about.... cognac and cigars all around, beards and top hats, fancy talking.... you get the idea. dunno.... it might be the fact that the guy is wearing a vest and a bow tie.
The only other thing to remember is when you cut an object ball it imparts spin. Cutting on the left imparts a little clockwise spin and vice versa. That affects how it will come of the rail and should be accounted for. Otherwise I'd love this in my house!! Awesome idea!!
It's kind of as if there are two pockets. You can either hit it in to the hole directly, or hit the colored balls towards the dot from any direction, as if it was the hole.
I think a putt-putt hole with an elliptical rail around the green would be fun too. Just like this table the hole would be at one focal point at the ball would start at the other.
In BCA and most accepted pool rules, you only lose if you pocket the 8-ball and scratch all in the same shot. If you hit the 8-ball, miss but the cue scratches it is a "ball in hand" and the opposing player can place it anywhere on the table.
This is also particularly interesting because you have the goldilocks force. If, for example, you wanted to hit the ball at a 45 degree angle I believe you would need 2x the goldilocks force. This also would be super interesting is you started planning shots hitting the bumper then the target ball.
Would be cool to see some more work on developing this so the force of the shot doesn't have such an influence on the angle at which it rebounds. The bumpers may need to be made significantly stiffer than those of standard billiards tables.
This needs to become a thing! I want to play this.
TheDiggster13 that looks fun, and that table takes less space than regular pool table.
Fiaca Yeah, but as in these need to be in places where I can play it. Like pubs!
TheDiggster13 This could be something. Did he patent it?
TheDiggster13 It is a thing, isn't it ?
I would assume that he patent it. The LOOP website is in the description and as for now you need to email him for the agreement to the purchase.
My favourite sentence of the video: "This is a Snooker in Loop and it's called a Snoop" :D
SNOOP DOGG!
Der Knebelini I would like but you have 69 likes. I'll like mine instead.
Cornelius McMuffin You're so nice :D
It is 'Snook'.
Taufiq Othman not in loop
Trying to pot the black and potting the white... happened to me too many times XD Awsum game! Looks like a lot of fun :-)
xisumavoid I always do away with that rule. All it does is give the person who played worse a trivial way to win and makes people overly careful when they're on the 8-ball.
xisumavoid
xisumavoid Great to see ya :3
Dave Power #6 as far as i know, you only lose when you make a foul and potting the 8 at the same time. if you simply pot the white it's just a regular foul
hallowurm I think you're right, according to two sets of official rules I just looked at. I'd still dismiss the auto-lose for scratching when the 8-ball is pocketed, but I had the official rules wrong on this.
Thanks.
This needs to be a thing!
Well it is
In the whole history of Loop, not a single game was played without cheating. I like it!
Lol you mean aside from him just moving the cue ball out from behind the 8 ball? Yeah, none
***** oh, yeah, true dat
@@lolioliol360 Yes, that's the cheat and that's why there hasn't been a single game without cheating. Without that cheat, there would've been a game without cheating.
Now if Jacob never plays again, not only will he be the first person to beat someone at Loop, he'll also be known as the first person to beat the inventor, and he'll have a record of a 100% win ratio.
Go Jacob!
-_-
@@mrloop1530for real
A better rule than an instant loss for whoever pots the cue ball would be the person who _didn't_ pot the cue gets to place it on the other focus point, and take an easy shot.
Onjit I like it!
Procyon B. It's like the pool game everyone else has played with!
Makes more sense tbh
Sean, while that is amusing, the proposal is a lot more elegant (and probably quite a bit more difficult) than a regular ball-in-hand. Instead of starting wherever one wants in a certain region, one starts by default in a universal sweet spot. Starting in the empty focus point, solutions based on either of the balls hitting the wall once will always line up perfectly so that the paths of the two balls are mathematically identical paths shifted in time. Such shots would probably be a lot harder than they seem, but their elegance is undeniable.
Furthermore, I would argue that the current rule is not as harsh as many seem to think. After all, there are just three other balls on the field from the beginning, and a single hole to get them in. I suspect cupping the white is a lot less frequent in loop than in billiards to begin with.
Procyon B. But a problem arises if the focus point is not empty. You need a way to manage that condition. I would probably suggest a circle of radius equal to a ball diameter around the focus point within which the contact-patch of the ball can be placed.
Every university bar needs one of these.
Someone get them in mass production.
It needs to be a reality.
Check the description. It's not quite 'mass' production, but all the same, they are being made.
I'm an engineering student and I need to play this
I can only imagine the math majors having drunken fights over how many degrees their angle of incidence is supposed to be to pot the ball
false.
I think that a sensible expansion would be to allow a colored ball for each person playing, allowing you to have many players rather than just 2.
GildedBear Huh?
My comment was doubled, sorry about that.
Huh?
Huh?
MAMAjAMAj8 We just need to go bigger :D
Now we need to play Loop in non-euclidean space...
bigglessy that gives me a idea, a spherical glass chamber where the balls inside are equally buoyant to water so there is a 3d version of this, maybe the hole would be a ring instead.
Joey Fogarty there are many problems with that. how are you gona play that under water, and since water is basically uncompressable; would be prettu hard to get zem ballz movin' (not really a problem doe...)
***** How about equally buoyant in a tank of heavier-than-air gas, instead of water.
Dracolith1 there would still be the problem; it migth be toxic. a person couldn't stand in it w/o gear.
The playing field would be embedded in a Toroid, so the hole would just be an ordinary hole and the one hole could be approached from any direction.
I need to play this..........
Joshua Gold it's cool
Is it possible to play on, like anywhere?
Joshua Gold It should be really easy to program something like this.
I guess you're right, but I have no programming skills what so ever :)
Numberphile There should be a Math bar (named "Numbar" perhaps), where folks get their beer in Klein bottles and play loop.
I actually wish loop was a popular thing now
id play it, i feel if you pot the cue it should be a scratch
pot the cue? That'd be an interesting quitting strategy.
Prehistoricman
I'd love to have a loop table
i want to see professional pool players playing loop... i need to see it... i wont be able to die happily until i see it...
T Landman but it would still be interesting *-*
T Landman You'd have to make a rule saying off the wall shot's only, no direct aiming for the pocket.
***** yeah, probably, and a rule that states that the table gets reset if you dont hit exactly what you called before or something, just to make it more of a challange
Sir Zoidberg I want to see the robit not even look at his cards, and win a game of poker with a hand of 5 kings, one of which is a coaster that says "King of Beers", which still counts in the house rules.
carultch oddly specific but lets make it happen :D
Finally a pool table that will fit in my apartment...
Considering that it is an ellipse, I imagine that it would work for any ellipse.
So, this is a pool table that you could resize to fit whatever space you need.
loop table!
@@lauroneto3360 its been 4 years, curious to see if youll reply
@@aloedg8058 I wont.
You need to mass produce things! Get these in physics and Math bars all over the world!
It took me a whole five minutes to realize that loop is just pool spelled backwards.
Darude - Sandstorm
thanks.
Took me until I saw this comment :|
xmorgan1123x it took me till this comment XD, probably would have never noticed it too
xmorgan1123x and they mentioned it in the first minutes of the video lol.
xmorgan1123x Im stil not sure what we talking about, what year is it?
This is the first time I'm genuinely intrigued by a table ball game, and as many in the comments have expressed, this may actually make money.
GuyWithAnAmazingHat It's certainly interesting, and I would love to play sometime, but I doubt it would ever make money. The cost of manufacturing an ellipse table, in wood, of that size would be crazy on a large scale.
NorWestern I don't think it would be terribly cost prohibitive. I'm a woodworker and have an applied math degree. This seems pretty feasible.
Never really were intrigued by pool, but this seems like big fun. Let's ask the Klein Bottle guy if he got some free time to manufacture and sell these tables. He'd have to build a bigger robot though to carry them around :D
(BTW: Awesome acapella)
NorWestern Eh, maybe in the days of manual *hand* labor. Now, they'd just find the formula for an ellipse they like, scale it up or down, and throw it into a cad reading lazer/waterjet cutter and off you go... Eliptical loop table in just a few hours probably.
Cory Lannon waterjet cutter for wood?
"You need to hit the ball as if it was coming from the point - "
YES WE GET IT! Do you have to explain that every time it is his turn? Leave the poor nephew alone.
+Carolus Rex With just enough force.
I think he's mostly explaining so they can show the angles of each ideal shot for the viewer.
Knowitall mathematician
ikr. I think he thinks this is much more complicated than it actually is.
Boohoo. Triggered baby.
Please share some blueprints/dimensions for this table, and how it was made! I think the hole needs to be just slightly bigger though. I wonder how much money I could hustle from people with trickshots before they catch on to the fact it's cheating using physics?
BlobVanDam ?
6 years late, but you can do this with any elliptical table it just changes how much power is needed and where the 2 focus points are
Literally make an ellipse. It's super easy to make one
I now have the sudden urge to go create my own miniature version of Loop out of a smaller piece of wood or plastic, using marbles instead of pool balls. This is such an ingenious concept, and the game has extremely simple rules, which would allow it to become a popular game if it was easy enough to produce. Thanks for putting so much effort into making these videos very high-quality and informative.
that actually look pretty fun. and it takes soooooo much less space than a regular pool table! I need to play this!
Not really. It'll have pi/4 (78.5%) as much area as a rectangular pool table, but it'll have the same dimensions, so moving it through doors will be just as difficult.
Did he give dimensions? There's also regulation sized pool tables and a smaller size.
JZStudiosonline And this is clearly the small one.
This looks like a lot of fun. Would be interesting to introduce more advanced pool techniques into this.
Now what happens if we have a game of pool in a Klein bottle ?
MenwithHill maybe on a morbius loop cause then if you put it in a straight line it would always go in.
Joseph Hart or out!
MenwithHill Gravity would have to work differently, or the surface of the Klein bottle would need to be ferrous and the ball a magnet while in a low gravity environment, or something along those lines. You wouldn't be potting the ball, it would probably use carom scoring of some sort similar to snooker.
Lol!
someone please program a virtual version
Not a fluke, but a _floop_.
.ƨu ɘvɒƧ .ƨu qlɘH .nɒmbɒm ɒ ƨi qoolᖷ
Crushermach3 Floop is a mapman (or madman). Help us. Save us
Stefan's Productions spy kidsssssss😩😭
I want a Loop table !!
It's a loop elbat
wouldn't it be elbat loop
I would love seeing some professional pool players play this.
jurgyy if a professional pool player played this one game would only last for a few seconds :))
taenami Than make it harder... the border is made out of different materials with different hardness. Like 1/4 of the border is made out of rubber, 1/4 is marble etc.
taenami Professional pool players wouldn't be accustomed to this round-shaped pool table, so they may just play like anyone else.
daniel tabin Nah, when they showed the diagrams with arrows they weren't precise. You would have to make the cue ball hit the other ball at the point that would be the center if the cue ball were on the focus. It isn't that simple.
*****
Hence every pro player would try to counter-play the other.
The math is simple and elegant, and yet the skill necessary to execute it looks like it would be the perfect recipe for a fun game.
They didn't call the pocket before trying for the 8 ball!!!
In American Pool (Not Snooker), pocketing the cue ball is called scratching. You don't lose the game, but the next player gets to position the ball where they want in the defined starting area.
+Assossa But if you're playing 8 ball, and the player is on the 8 ball when they scratch, it's a loss.
Incorrect according to the official pool rules you only lose if you hit in the white ball and the eight ball on the eight ball shot
if you pot the 8 ball in the pocket in a Non - 8 ball shot, u loose xD
ModernGameArmy But according to most house rules, pocketing the cue ball while going for the 8 ball is considered a loss, and seeing as how Loop is not an official sport, and how they make up rules as they go, it makes the most sense for them to include that rule
ClassyGamerCat Pool is an official sport
This looks so fun.........
it is
Numberphile where can i buy this?
+Key4427 he said it's custom made in the other video
Master Bearer i want one
Key4427 You could make it
Question: Have there been any attempts to mass produce this as an actual pool "loop" table product? The game looks equally as fun as pool if not for different reasons, the table takes up considerably less space than a normal pool/snooker table making it a viable option for people who don't have vast open spaces in their home (which is most of us), and it's remarkably more simple to pick up than other table games.. Why not mass produce it? I'm damn sure that if people knew about this and it was made affordable then they would buy it, I know I would for sure and I'm not even a huge pool/snooker fan.
Matt I WBA it's not really a revolutionary sport that's viable...
Who said anything about turning it into a sport? It'd a table top game people could play for fun.
But in the extra video, he said it was very difficult to make and took months. So I don't think mass production would be viable.
It's usually always difficult when you are building the first. It gets easier after that.
it's only a game lose if you pocket the cue ball AND the 8 ball. a pocket fowl on the 8 ball is just a normal pocket foul, and is play with normal pocket foul rules. (typically ball in hand for your opponent, a pulling a ball for you.)
That's the international championship rule, but usually in bar pool and some championships based on bar pool rules, a foul in the 8 ball shot means a loss.
Jonatas Silveira Baldo not just international. basically every recognized professional billiard group, nationally and international, use the same rule. you are correct that most bars you go to will use the "game loss if you scratch on the 8" rule, but atleast half the bars I've gone to also use the "it's ball in hand if you miss and don't hit atleast 3 rails" rule, and my personal favorite the "you didn't call that cross table bank shot, so clearly that wasn't what you were planning on doing, so now it's my turn, and I get ball in hand." rule.
basically, people in bars have no idea how to play 8 ball. or straight pool. or 9 ball. or 7 ball.
ive never played a foul on the 8 is a loss, dunno why thats a thing
ImGrumpher drunk people don't know how to play pool.
that's my guess anyway.
I think he was talking about just potting the que ball not being a loss, which it truly isnt.
I would love to see a build video on this
I didn't realize until 5 minutes in that LOOP is pool backwards...end me
I didn't realize till I read your comment XD
i still dint realize it
realize what?
i didn't realize until 5 minutes later that you copied someone else's comment
What a great looking game! I can see where this could be a great addition to any bar without room for a full pool table. Plenty of options for other game variations too.
This is a brilliant game! It should be just as common and popular as Pool!
This seems like it would be a way more user friendly game of pool because you know exactly where you need to hit it. I think that this will become a million dollar idea if it gets more notice.
You quite literally beat him at his own game. :-D
If the hole was slightly bigger (so that how hard you hit it didn't matter as much) This would be an amaaaaazing training tool for real snooker/pool! I find the hardest part of snooker is being able to see from behind the white where exactly you need to hit the other ball, this is a way of confirming to you that you hit it perfectly or not
Why is this video not public? This is awesome *_*
matekusz1 it will be later - I just wanted to launch Part 1 first
This is a great alternative for people who love billiards but might not have the space and would like something a little different than bumper
As a pocket billiards player and hustler, I want to play this game so badly I can't even put it into words. Make one of these tables for me, and I will gladly purchase it.
I think this is great. The "marker" spot means that you can always work out the required angle to hit the object ball, through visual angular deduction. It makes it that little bit easier than it first appears. There is a future for this, i'm sure.
Man I would totally get this, looks alot smaller than a pool table
The beauty of the design is that as long as it's an ellipse, it can be any size.
To be able to watch two of the greatest players of Loop playing head to head against each other on TH-cam, I feel so blessed.
This is genius, I want to play this.
Amazingly inventive game. Can’t wait to have a loop table of my own
Now everytime i see a mark on a pool table im going to think its a focal point and claim someones cheating
Tavon Jackson A pool table is rectangular. Rectangles dont have focal points.
Milind Bebarta he was joking, clearly.
You guys are officially the best players in the world at this.
so a minigolf table basically
Every game in the history of loop has been videotaped and documented! :D
The actual rules of pool say that you can reposition the cue ball wherever you want after you pot the cue ball. But if you pot the 8-ball (Black) before all your other balls are gone OR if you pot the 8-ball alongside with the cue ball, you automatically lost.
iTomate They only discussed rules of play while targeting the 8-ball, where it's different than the rest of the game.
The Real Kusay Those are the UK rules currently in place
R3Testa no, it's not different at all. if you pot the cue ball, the enemy can reposition it anywhere. if you pot the 8-ball AND the cue ball, you lost.
8-ball rules vary widely. Check the APA/CPA rules, and you'll see "[11]e. When playing the 8-ball, you scratch. You lose whether or not you pocket the 8-ball."
R3Testa Never heard of that rules (I thinks it's a bit ridiculous). That's probably because I play by the WPA-Rules. "The shooter loses if he (a) fouls when pocketing the eight ball; (b) pockets the eight ball before his group is cleared; (c) pockets the eight ball in an uncalled pocket; or (d) drives the eight ball off the table (These do not apply to the break shot.)"
If you add a bit of back spin to the cue ball, it would give the next ball forward spin which will help with the way that it banks off the wall (in simpler words, a ball tends to keep the entering and exiting angle equal when you have a bit of top spin on it)
You lovely nerds you. Great fun
Iliyan Laskov cheers
Numberphile show this to the physics professors and say "Is pool math or physics?"
J Salas Both :p
You need to manufacture and sell these. Simple yet brilliant.
This is a snooker in loop and it's called a snoop. :D
Please start making more LOOP Tables!!! I want this game to get as big as pool
I can see this becoming more popular than actual pool! ;)
MichaelKingsfordGray I don't know if its still there, but there used (20+ years ago) to be a hexagonal rotating table in a pub in near Box near Bath, UK where there was no room for a normal table. The player always stood in the same place and you rotated the table to the angle you wanted. It worked, but if you moved the table to fast all the balls would move.
jca111 There have been plenty of octagonal pool tables. In fact, I have one myself.
That is, bumper pool tables. I assume that you mean a octagonal standard table.
There are also other shapes of tables out there, and also other types of them. I think it was Tom Scott who had a video on bar pool, another awesome billiard game.
MichaelKingsfordGray Hexagonal close pack ;)
I though of something similar back when I played a lot of 9-ball. Awesome that this guy followed through on his idea.
I'm not the only one that feels the genuine need to have this am I?
This absolutely needs to become a thing
Nice ... does it come in different eccentricities?
Playing pool with an elliptical pool table with eccentricity 7000 (gone wrong)
Getting the ball into the pocket also depends on the spin that the Q ball causes the colored ball to have when the cue ball is coming from any direction that has an angle OR when the cue ball is hit with a spin (like when the cue doesn't strike the cue ball directly in the center). This spin will cause the colored ball to deviate from the target as it travels on the felt at low speed and highly deviate when it hits the rail. You can't just think of hitting the ball as if it were coming from the focus point, you have to keep in mind the spin induced.
The number of times he explained how to pot the ball was too damn high
Bamboozled The number of radians in a circle is two damn pi.
You already noticed, and rightfully so, that speed affects the bounce angle on the bank. However there's more to it. Namely an effect called throw. To be more precise: Spin induced throw (SIT) and Collision induced throw (CIT). The latter especially plays a role in most bank shots unless they are "straight on" and warrants adjustment on the bank angle.
So where's the kickstarter? ;-)
This is actually fantastic game design
I would have two pockets, one at each focus of the ellipse.
This looks like great fun actually, well done.
If you hit the eight ball in too early you lose. If you pocket the cue ball the other player gets to position the ball wherever They like
Hunter Long if you make the 8 ball and pocket the cue then you lose but if you pocket the cue on the 8 they get to put it anywhere
Hunter Long How is your dad being a bouncer in anyway relevant? While it's true pool tables are more common in bars, that just means you might have played it more. Most people that play it casually in a bar/pub don't follow many of the basic rules of pool.
EPA rules say you lose if you pot the cue ball in the same turn you POT the 8-ball - Other wise it is just a standard foul.
Swiftix If you are going for the 8 ball, if you pot the 8 ball and cue ball at the same time, game over. If you pot the cue ball but not the 8-ball, it's just ball in hand for the other person
When you hit the cue ball onto the coloured ball other than directly it will impart side spin, so the angle of reflection also changes.
"As if It comes from the focus point" How many times he needs to say it!...It got it the first time!!
Seriously, you need to consider selling this. It seems like it takes up less room than a standard pool table but looks just as fun
I think one of the rules should stipulate that only bank shots are allowed.
Ast A. Moore I wondered that - from what I have seen so far, it may not be necessary
Numberphile I just watched the video again, and I agree, that in your edit, there are almost no straight cut shots. I also think that a good safety play (provided safeties are allowed) will ensure that regular cut shots are few and far between. Still, given the slightest chance, even a semi-decent pool player, will run out of the two balls-if cut shots are allowed-almost every time.
Damn cool concept, though, this whole thing. Damn cool.
Brilliant, I would watch this all day!
suddenly I feel myself ported back to the 19th century, in some high-society club or ball room, surrounded by noblemen eager to play this new game everybody is talking about....
cognac and cigars all around, beards and top hats, fancy talking.... you get the idea.
dunno.... it might be the fact that the guy is wearing a vest and a bow tie.
I love this. I want to make a version of it for a computer play but intellectual property says that it's yours. Nice job!
coming to an iphone near you
DjDedan xD Brilliant.
Hahaha
DjDedan I want this on PC, as a game I can simply play online.
The only other thing to remember is when you cut an object ball it imparts spin. Cutting on the left imparts a little clockwise spin and vice versa. That affects how it will come of the rail and should be accounted for. Otherwise I'd love this in my house!! Awesome idea!!
Loop > Bullet Ball
+SquareWaveHeaven Thanks for introducing me to bullet ball. Sure looks like a high caliber table game to me. Can't wait until it hits Europe!
You should watch the 1972 sci-fi movie Silent Running starring Bruce Dern. Early in the film his fellow astronauts play elliptical pool as well.
massproduce it, i need this!!! D:
This is why I love this channel! Awesome video!
loop is pool spelled backwards
Yes Numberphile! More games of elliptical pool! A very promising new sport.
Now I want a elliptical pool table. Loop looks really fun!
It's kind of as if there are two pockets. You can either hit it in to the hole directly, or hit the colored balls towards the dot from any direction, as if it was the hole.
Jacob is the world champion of Loop!
This needs to be standardized and mass produced. Looks so fun
I think a putt-putt hole with an elliptical rail around the green would be fun too. Just like this table the hole would be at one focal point at the ball would start at the other.
Not a new idea. They showed this on BBCs Tomorrows World about 30 years ago. they also had one in the 1972 movie 'Silent Running'
I had to scroll through 500 comments to find this one, after watching Silent Running.
That's brilliant. Looks like so much more fun than those compact mini pool tables.
“I think that’s actually the best shot in the history of loop.”
This is awesome, you guys need to start selling this table.
In BCA and most accepted pool rules, you only lose if you pocket the 8-ball and scratch all in the same shot. If you hit the 8-ball, miss but the cue scratches it is a "ball in hand" and the opposing player can place it anywhere on the table.
This is also particularly interesting because you have the goldilocks force. If, for example, you wanted to hit the ball at a 45 degree angle I believe you would need 2x the goldilocks force. This also would be super interesting is you started planning shots hitting the bumper then the target ball.
Would be cool to see some more work on developing this so the force of the shot doesn't have such an influence on the angle at which it rebounds. The bumpers may need to be made significantly stiffer than those of standard billiards tables.
I would love to watch more of these
My math teacher spent 2 days telling us about ellipses and this gave me everything I needed to know in five minutes