In a similar vein, "spice girl" said in a Glasgow accent sounds the same as "space ghetto" in an American one. But this time it's not solely about vowel shifts - you have the alveolar tap and l-vocalisation affecting things as well.
As a casual observing Brit who used to live in NZ, I've always referred to this as the 'rotation of vowels'. Pin (Eng) becomes pun (NZ), pun becomes pan, pan becomes pen, pen becomes pin... and back to the beginning. Nice to stumble across the science that explains it. :)
Back in the '80s, I was in charge of stationery for a small company in London whose staff included a New Zealand lass. She asked me for a new desk because her old one was full, and only after quite a lot of frustrated four-way discussion between me, her, and girls from Japan and South Carolina, about how one might - or might not be able to - tidy their desk, file things away, even throw things away, did she offer up a full computer floppy disc as proof of her need for a new one. (I was delighted to meet up with her again some 10 years later, in Perth, Western Australia!)
As a New Zealander, it's always fascinating how others interpret our accents. I say accents because depends where you are from, very much determines the vowel sounds.
My ex is from Timaru and it was hard to talk to her about serious situations because I'd always laugh. I think the northern parts sound a little more like Aussies and the south is off doing their own thing. When we were in Europe it was easier to use fake British accents than to repeat everything four times over.
Thank you. I have heard about the Great Vowel Shift and about the waves of huge changes in the pronunciation of French, but before this video, it never fully clicked that whole sets of vowels change together because they'd end up too similar otherwise. I always understood it as "suddenly, people went crazy and started saying everything differently" rather than "a change starts a whole system of changes because vowels need to stay differentiated". How had that not clicked?
3:36 a perfect pronunciation guide for us Kiwis in how to say: "Jim's crashed, and begs for bucks." In the Northern English accent. All we have to do is to just try to say: "Gems crushed in bags for books" in our own accent, and somehow, Bob becomes our uncle.
If I closed my eyes while you said TRAP, DRESS and KIT, you sounded so much like a native NZer that I thought you must've gotten someone else to do the voiceover. A great video!
I adore the New Zealand accent (well, the generalized one, I know there are regional differences, particularly in the far south of the South Island). It's funny, as an older person who grew up in West Texas, saying "Tin" for "ten" and "pin" for "pen" is totally natural. When I started learning to spell and was told the "e" in "pen" was supposed to be pronounced differently, I was so confused!
I have a few Kiwi friends, and I noticed that they said "bed" as /beed/, "head" as /heed/ but they insisted they did not. This made it a lot easier to distinguish an Aussie from a Kiwi, though.
They absolutely do and being a kiwi I try to tone down my kiwi accent. But if I didn't bother doing that it would be just as ear-melting. Although some are just so broad that you could only do them in jest.
@@moaningpheromonesPLEASE do not try to tone down your accent! As an American, I absolutely love New Zealand accents and find the idea of trying to get rid of them rather depressing.
I'm a geordie so using long vowels instead of diphthongs is very normal for me like in 'hoos' (house), 'roond' (round), 'caad' (cold), 'waam' (warm) etc. but I never thought about how similar that is to NZ English before.
This kind of reminds me of modular arithmetic. So, the ”Broad New Zealand” vowel system and the ”Northern England” vowel system are ”congruent, modulo 6”, with respect to each other (since there are 6 vowels) 😅.
In 1980, as an 11-year old, I moved to (just outside) Penrith, Cumbria from Invercargill, New Zealand. I was immediately called "Igg" by my classmates because that's how I ordered egg when in the queue at school lunches. Despite having lived outside NZ for the majority of my life, even now I have extreme difficulty in making my pin and pen, which sound so distinct to my own ears, sound distinct to other people.
I was confused by the title until you explained about the rotation of vowels between words. For example, in England, "bitter" is a kind of beer, whereas, in New Zealand, it means "superior". Also, a "litter box" is where cats poop in the UK, whereas it is where New Zealanders deposit their mail.
What an amazing video! Coming from NZ this almost sounds spot on except I'm reminded of your "length and linking" video because some sounds would be longer said with an NZ accent. The speed of "gems" and "bags" for example is like hearing Natalie Portman saying "hair" 🤣
When you said trap, dress, kit etc that was perfect Kiwi! The sentence at the end wasn't though. I can't explain without a voice note, but the "Kiwi" sentence about crushed gems didn't sound like us at all.
I totally agree, I do believe that our accent is changing, especially with the younger generation. I’m often asked “How’ve ya bin?” Remember the rhyme about the pussy cat visiting the queen? Pussy cat pussy cat where have you been? I’ve been to London to visit the Queen. I started school in 1973, so that’s nearly 50 years ago & we had to pronounce words like been, seen, dress, trap & kit correctly. Thank you so much for a great video. Hello from New Zealand 🇳🇿❤🇬🇧
Funny story: I once had a manager with a broad Preston (Lancashire) accent, whose name was Pat. I also had a flatmate who was from New Zealand. Pat had called me at home and left a message with said New Zealand flatmate. When I got home, she said, ‘Oh, some guy called for you but I didn’t get his name… Park, or something??’ I was mystified but after a bit of quizzing, established that the call must have come from my manager. ‘His name’s Pat,’ I told her. ‘Ohhhh,’ she exclaimed in sudden understanding. ‘Pit’.
This is so interesting. I'm from Cheshire, live in North Lancashire and work in Stockport.. The accent variations locally in Lancs are huge and I no longer have any idea what my accent is!
As a (somewhat) older NZer, I find that the accent has changed enormously. Younger people - particularly women - sound much more Australian than they did forty or fifty years ago. Back then, we pronounced "better" with a flat NZ e vowel and aspirated ts. Now I often hear younger speakers using a more Australian open e and ds instead of ts.
@@shaunmckenzie5509 Na. As an Australian I think the Kiwi accent has definitely become more Australian over my lifetime - the old "fush and chups" sounds we use to mock are rarer. Now if only our rugby team could become more like the NZ one ....
The more kiwis need to be understood internationally, the less strong our accent becomes. I spent some time in the UK 15 years ago and I still get asked where I’m from at home fairly often (especially when I’m talking to a Brit and manage to pick their accent lol). I hear plenty of kiwi TH-camrs who basically sound like a horrific kiwi-american franken-accent. Or a Southlander.
@@ek-nz Those American vowel sounds are taking over both here in Oz and in Kiwidom - yes, its a horrible franken accent. But we both still have the rising pitch at the end of sentences and are both still non-rhotic (unless you're in far south NZ and hence sound Scots). So not all distinctiveness is being lost. I note the influence of "Neighbours" and similar shows have spread that rising pitch into Estuary English, too.
@@ek-nz I grew up in Dunedin and in those days (many moons ago) one NEVER heard the Southland Burr north of Gore. Now many young people in Dunedin have it. I have no idea why. People of my generation just sound like Wellingtonians, only slower and less pretentious.
This was super interesting! Would love to see you do a Speech/Pronunciation/Accent video on Australia 🇦🇺 I am an Aussie from Melbourne and have found it fascinating to see our accent change over my own lifetime (30 something years). I grew up with my grandmother and parents having more English pronunciation , due to cultural decent and what was in TV at the time. However, now feel like there’s been quite a shift in our pronunciation, to more American especially the younger generations who do watch a lot of TH-cam and US content. However, the English aspect is still there too. I find it very intriguing! Would love to hear your expertise on it 😊 (sorry if you have already done a video on this, I am new to your channel and could find anything on AUS) thank you!
I love all this stuff. The thing that always baffles me is that it doesn't seem to cause any problem with intelligibility at all! As a Northern Brit, a New Zealander is just as easy to understand even though I should think they're saying completely different words. Weird!
Oh that's quite interesting. I was born in New Zealand, and grew up around the New Zealand accent, but I also maintained my family's quite strong Lancashire accent all the while. I found that people did have an easier time understanding my thick Lanc drawl than my friend with a well-pronounced southern RP accent. Real funny!
I'm a Northern Brit who was surprised to be mistaken for a New Zealander so often when I was in the States recently. Thanks for shedding light on my experience.
I loved the analogy with the queue and the social distance. That makes lots of sense. In Brazilian Portuguese we also have different pronunciations depending on the accent.
As a northener from Rawtenstall and always having had trouble getting the kiwi accent. This just explained a lot. Again i feel compelled to thank you. Thanks.
excellent video!! as a Portuguese speaker that distinguishes the phonemes /e/ and /ɛ/, i always interpreted the kiwis vowels for ‘dress’ and ‘trap’ like so, rather than dress being /ɪ/
If we're talking about articulatory fantasy rather than acoustic values, I'm still waiting for the topic “contrasting [e] and [ɪ]”. And this makes me wonder... If the symbols for British English phonology were defined today, would they choose ⟨e⟩ for KIT and ⟨ɛ⟩ for DRESS? As they would probably have chosen ⟨a⟩ rather than ⟨æ⟩ for the TRAP vowel, I guess.
Great video! Isn't the NZ English "put" vowel the more centralized /ɵ/ while the "thought" vowel /o/ is symmetrical in height with the "dress vowel" /e/? I remember you arguing once on ESS that the "kit" vowel in SSB English could be transcribed as /e/. This would make NZ English and SSB English similar in that they both have /e/, /ɵ/, and /o/, except that /e/ is the "dress" vowel in NZ English and the "kit" vowel in SSB English
@@Sergio-hn9vr Indeed. You may remember that the original main 'point' of my famous/notorious blog article on SSB vowels was not a palace coup regarding symbols but to point out how far you can get transcribing SSB with primary cardinals. The problem with clinging to inaccurate symbols like /e/ for SSB is that it makes comparison with other systems harder.
It's interesting to watch New Zealand English evolving. I've read on Wikipedia that /ʊ/ becomes more centralised using the same pattern that /ɪ/ do. I wonder if it will merge with /ə/ and /ɪ/ some day. Taking into account that /uː/ is already centralised and diphthongised to [ʊ̈ʉ] as in many other dialects the centralised /ʊ/ will leave the close back vowel area empty. The next step in the New Zealand vowel shift might be the raising of /ɔː/ from [oː] to [o̝ː] or even [uː].
Hi, native speaker of NZE here, the /ɔː/ vowel is indeed pretty much somewhere between [oː] and [uː], so this has already happened. Also I'm not sure what you're referring to here with /ɪ/ and /ə/ merging, if you mean the KIT and COMMA vowels, then yes they've already merged, meaning that /ə/ appears on stressed syllables. Anecdotally there's somewhat of a tendency to unround the high central vowels, /ʊ ʉː aʉ/ might better be written /ɨ ɘɨ aɨ/, or something to that effect. We've also got a high front-ish rounded vowel, that fluctuates in quality from speaker to speaker between something like [ɵː] [øː] or [ʏː], the NURSE vowel. Finally noteworthy point of interest is that there is one short/long pair where there is no noticeable difference in vowel quality, between /a/ and /aː/.
@@ori5315 I would expect Kiwi English to have more length contrasts, considering that Australian are happy to use [ɪ ɪː e eː æ æː a aː ʊ ʊː] - bid beard bed bared span(verb) span(noun) bud barred pull pool.
I recall pronouncing books as boo-ks when I moved from Durham to Australia at age 5. Teacher asked me to get a book from the neighboring class and I went and asked for a bucket. Confusion ensued.
Not sure if that's a new end screen or I just haven't noticed before but you've written 'thanks for watching' in IPA, and it's reminded me of something... So there's a lovely podcast called Lingthusiasm, and they have merchandise including cards with "thanks" and "congrats" in IPA, thanks written as θæŋks. You've written θaŋks with an even more open vowel. But I definitely say θɛŋks! I'm from Tasmania, and the only other people I've come across (all mainland Australians besides my family) who share my pronunciation for that word are members of my family (and yes, I am the kind of person to ask all my friends and even my dentist how they say 'thanks'). One of the people who does the podcast is an Australian, so I'd expect them to put out a θɛŋks card if they pronounced it that way, but they didn't. I'm curious if you've come across the θɛŋks pronunciation before. I'd love someone to validate my ears.
I'm sure your transcription of your "thanks" is accurate. The TRAP vowel of broad AusE has been described as [ɛ], in addition to which vowels can be raised before nasals; some accents can neutralize TRAP and DRESS before nasals. Conversely, perhaps the most publicly recognized difference between old posh RP and modern SSB is the lowering of TRAP to [a].
You've just made me spend several minutes saying "thanks" to myself in different accents I'm American and as near as I can figure, mine is /θeŋks/? Probably drifting into θɛŋks territory more often than I realize.
@@DrGeoffLindsey Not entirely sure what you mean by that. I don't pronounce "ang" and "eng" appreciably differently, but that doesn't extend to other nasals.
@@woodfur00 Sorry, I meant to say velars. linguistics.washington.edu/research/publications/bag-beg-bagel-prevelar-raising-and-merger-pacific-northwest-english
Another similar linguistics person, Simon Roper, who has worked with Geoff in the past, has a video about the history of the "r" sound in English: th-cam.com/video/bq4XbdA3dTk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=8z6j50YGVb2bT3Tr
Quite interesting. This reminds me of the eternal dilemma when adapting the phonetics of "strut" to spanish. As this vowel doesn't exist, it's converted into either an /a/ or /o/, meaning that e.g. in Mexico the word "plus" would generally be adapted as /plos/ whereas in Spain it would be /plas/ (Forgive me not having the phonetic alphabet on my phone). And funnily, that is basically the same as North of England vs NZ.
Yep, I'm Australian and I would say /plas/ is 100% the correct native way to pronounce the word. If I hear /plos/ I imagine Postman Pat (a kids show with funny accents)
Hi, New Zealander here - this blew my mind and made me more aware of my own accent, so thank you for that, but I'd like to point out that when you said the sentences at the end, I couldn't hear the "crashed" or "crushed" part as anything aside from an English person saying "crashed". 99% of what you said sounds right, I just don't think our "u" sound like in "strut" or "crushed" moved quite as far as you think it did, it's still distinctly different from the Northern England "a" in "crashed", at least to me.
Fascinating. I'm from Northern England and I keep hearing the new Zealand in TH-cam videos. I've been finding it quite a jarring accent because the vowels are completely shifted compared to my own accent, as demonstrated here. I know it's just their accent but I find myself wanting to correct the shifted vowels and asking them to speak correctly because it can be difficult to understand them sometimes! I've noticed they pronounced 'care' as 'kee-er' so that one confused me too.
I'd love to hear a Yorkshire/Lancashire comparison. If I'm trying to work out which side of the Pennines someone is from, I always think the "o" in words like "Bolton" is the big giveaway. I love the generational comparisons as well. Would love to see more of them, especially comparisons of different generations from the same family who grew up in the same place.
The second o is reduced to ə in both accents I believe, indeed it seems in pretty much all accents, but I think the first o is a different vowel in each accent, maybe like the o in lot in Yorkshire, but like the u in strut in Lancashire? (Wiki suggests the oa in goat for a local pronunciation).
The main difference is that the r sound West of the Pennines is rhotic, whereas in most Yorkshire accents it isn't. Some Yorkshire folk though still speak a much older form of the accent that is near-indistinguishable from Lancashire.
Thank you Dr. Lindsey. Could you make a video about points of articulations in the English language and if you have MRI images /videos for R, H, A, K, G sounds it would be very helpful.
there is an entire video on H, likely including an MRI. K and G differ in aspiration, there’s a video on that, so there may be something in there. don’t know about R.
Extremely interesting! Another strange coincidence is the use of /ə/ in stressed position in NZ and in "toned down" Northern English: "kit" /kət/ and "cut" /kət/. I believe "pit" can also be /pət/ or /pɨt/ in South African Enfglish (in certain environements). I have a weakness for stressed schwa, such as Belearic Catalan "més" /məs/ ("more"). Any other stressed schwas out there? I was wondering about a possible strong form "just" /dʒəst/ in RP. Not really sure... Any other specific words in RP with stressed schwa, if it is at all possible? Thanks for this wonderful visual explanation of "the vowel space".
I'm Australian but with Kiwi heritage, spending a substantial portion of my childhood in Christchurch. In fluctuating amounts depending on how alert I am, I get asked frequently why I sound British despite never having been there or spending any time around the British when I was learning to speak. Australian accents have a distinct tier system that is usually tied to a very backwards understanding of intelligence (or class), and generally I've generally attributed it to the more articulated use of T's and S's, because that sounds more stereotypically British, and I've always been told that I sound articulate because of my emphasis on T's and S's. It's always been a point of contention because it just happens accidentally and people like to joke about it, but it's fun to know it's actually down to the Kiwi side. Going to start using 'innit' as well as 'sweet as'.
This was an entertaining video, as a native speaker of NZE with a huge interest in linguistics it was definitely refreshing to not see the standard IPA symbols that are used in NZE transcriptions (seriously, why are we using for the LOT vowel, when in precise quality it's more like [̟ɔ̟]??) It's a shame you didn't go through the diphthongs/long vowels, as that's where a lot of other interesting quirks come up. The merging of NEAR/SQUARE is a distinctive feature, as well as the rounding+fronting of the NURSE vowel! And potentially ever unrounding of the GOOSE, FOOT, and GOAT vowels, though I've not seen this talked about very frequently. Also a very low FACE vowel, depending on speaker it can be anywhere from [æɪ] to [ɐɪ], some speakers will also round their PRICE vowels to something approximating [ɔɪ]!
I have heard this and couldn't articulate it. It can be challenging sometimes getting used to one accent on a show, and then hearing the other on another show. The vowels are shifted and can make it difficult to understand. Accents with vowel reduction(Like scouse) can sometimes sound like someone who has been outside in the cold too long and their mouth has gone numb :P
Fascinating stuff. I think speakers of a particular accent can detect a lot more nuance in pronunciation because they are attuned to subtle aspects of their own accent. This shifts your perception. For example, as a New Zealander the way we pronounce "dress" sounds more like Northern England pronunciation given in this video than the NZ accent attempt.
As a born & bred Kiwi, this makes so much sense. My ancestry includes folks from Cumbria. They used dialect words that sounded like a foreign language, but somehow I got the flow of the meaning from my grandparents.
On a very vaguely similar note, am I right in thinking some of the vowels in MLE are weirdly similar to the corresponding vowels in a very aristrocratic/old time RP? not enough of a linguist to explain properly but I'm SSB and comparing my 'o' as in 'so' to the queen or 1930s newreader it seems like their o's have more e to them, when I hear some young MLE speakers their o's seem closer to the posh o's than my own. Same thing with the i's in high. Maybe it's just me. But would be interested in a vid about this if there is anything to it
Hmmm. Not sure I understand what a "vowel space" is. And in other news, a sure fire way to identify a kiwi in the UK is the pronunciation of the word "it" which Kiwis pronounce like British "ut" [as in "utmost").
could you make a video about the trap/bath split? i find it so curious that new Zealand has it and australia does not to certain extent. is it just because of the gap in time between each of them were colonized?
@@KatzRool Depends on where in Australia you're from. This article ( lgzsoldos.blogspot.com/2020/06/trapbath-split-in-australian-english.html ) shows a chart of how often speakers from Hobart, Melbourne, Brisbane, Sydney and Adelaide pronounce the long /a:/ vowel in graph, chance, demand, dance and castle. Varies quite heavily from place-to-place
Ah I see, you're talking about the split in regards to other words. Trap and bath themselves are always split but many words are ambiguous as to which lexical set they're in. I'm from Sydney and say all of those words in each set interchangeably, and sometimes with a vowel right in the middle. Kinda an either either thing for me :p
I love your videos :) I have a question about the "click here to subscribe" transcription at 4:02: by what process does subscribe end up having a /g/ or [g] in it? Is "skr" always really [sgr]?
Thank you! Within a word, there's no contrast between /ptk/ and /bdg/ after /s/, and phonetically plosives after /s/ sound more like English /bdg/. Please see my video on this: th-cam.com/video/U37hX8NPgjQ/w-d-xo.html
As a kiwi, I feel like I should say that this is quite generalised. Here, where I live, there are quite a few variations on vowel sounds, and foreigners tend to cherry pick a very specific NZ accent when they talk about our pronunciations. I, and my peers speak similarly to the way that's described in the video, but there are some pretty big differences that nobody seems to be willing or able to point out.
Well he can’t pick all the accents in New Zealand can he? It’s like how he can’t pick every northern English accent he picked a general one from each and compared them of course there’s lots of variation within the accents of the countries
As a speaker of American English, I would argue for a distinction between the two phonemes, and while I agree that schwa can be stressed, turning it into an upside- down V, the mouth changes shape in the process - if you say, “She’s the love of my life,” you can feel the difference between THE and LOVE. So perhaps what we really need to do is have a frank discussion of what it means to not stress something, regardless of which phoneme we’re discussing
As a New Zealander with strong British familial ties, I often get confused as British in NZ and vice versa. I heard the phrase said as "Jim's crushed and begs for books"
I’m born and raised in nz and my mums parents are from England, her dad’s side from Yorkshire in northern England. I’m a half cast Maori and European and sound strange even to kiwi’s lol
Very interesting. My mother tongue is Yorkshire but after being in NZ for nearly 50 years some of that has gone so I reckon I've got the best of both worlds. I still say bath, grass, class, last and dance properly, mind.😄
The variation of accents in the British Isles is astounding. There's not usually *that* much variation over such a small distance, but there's noticeable differences from one town to the next. Leeds sounds different to Wakefield which sounds different to Barnsley which sounds different to Sheffield and so on. Of course, these highly localised differences are starting to fade as culture becomes more homogenised, but they're still there.
Gems in NZ english has a shifted sound compared to Jim's in northern english. You're using the australian pronunciation of gems. To me it sounds like you're saying ji rather than jeh
As a New Zealander you'd have to have a very extreme zild accent for those sentences to sound similar if a northerner and a New Zealander said them but there is some truth there.
I always find it weird when people pronounce an I like an E or an E like an I. Like saying "beg" but it sounds like "big" (like in Australia) or like saying "six" and it sounds like "sex" (like in Scotland). Although I've also heard Americans pronounce an A like an E, basically saying "end" instead of "and" (but not quite the same, and more nasal sounding).
I agree, it gets confusing. Theres a funny video of an English MP repeatedly asking a Scottish MP to repeat a sentence as he can't understand him. The sentence included the word disability which was pronounced 'dessabelletee' by the Scot.
The far south of NZ (the part with all the Scottish place names) definitely sounds Caledonian to my untrained ears - its different to that of someone from Auckland. I've got a mate from Dundee who lived there for a while and felt right at home, though admittedly that may have been because the climate was all too familiar.
Depends where. Deep South yes, especially in rural areas, but in Christchurch (and Willington) I think there’s a funny RP thing going on from the old days, especially with the older generations. Auckland definitely has a Pacific influence to my ears these days, and Dunedin you would think would have the Caledonian but at least to me it’s not noticeable. Perhaps slightly less clipped than Chch and Welly.
3:55 No. That does NOT sound like a New Zealander saying "gems crushed in bags for books". To me it sounds like a Northern Englander saying... something, but not that.
the nz accent in millennials and gen z is quite distinctively different than the typical nz accent shown here. Probably due to globalisation, millennial/gen z kiwi accent is sometimes much closer to australian or south london accents
It would be interesting to a non-speaker of English, say a monolingual German speaker, they would probably perceive these two accents as remarkably similar
There could have been an influence from immigration. When I visited NZ I was constantly reminded of a Scottish references. In particular in Invercargill many of the street names are Scottish places and a whole block of streets are named after Scottish rivers- Tay, Tweed, Clyde etc. We chose to eat in a cafe on Spey St as we live less than a mile away from the River Spey,
I find your pronunciation, and that of most British people, of 'Zealand' odd. You say ZEEland, rather than like it's 'sea-land' with a z instead of an s. That's obviously etmologically sound but every kiwi pronounces it more like it's spelt, like "zeal-land".
All English speakers say Zee-Land but Kiwis shorten it so it sounds more like Zullund. I am not sure why Zealand was spelt that way in English but most people just pronounce it as they read it. There are no words in English that start with 'z' but make an 's' or 'sh' sound.
I have found three recognizable accents(to me) in the time I have lived in NZ. There is the Maori accent, the Pakeha Standard and Pakeha Broad. Locals tell me there is at least 4 with south end of the South Island having a soft rolling R, but I have only ever met one person from there and I never noticed it. I was a brand new arrival though and couldn't even tell the difference between Kiwis and Aussies at the time. My wife has the standard Pakeha accent and my brother in law has the broad. Going to get them both to read out these sentences for science.
Look, whilst every well educated and well spoken New Zealander does occasionally slip a wrong vowel or three in, many of us can out'pronounce around 80-90% of the inhabitants of the UK and match a further 5-15% :-p I was *so* horrified by the low quality of speech and education when I moved to England (Cotswolds) that I intentionally avoided excessive social contact with the natives and instead studied and practiced my pronunciation alone and online. My wife who is from Spain lived in Ireland for a while and felt similarly. For her BBC radio was her reference and although she does still sound Spanish her English is exceptionally strong and mostly natural, partially as a result of that tactic. I sent her your weak forms video a few minutes ago and will watch it again with her shortly. Cheers. PS, I drive a small car to make up for my large kwila deck. Ahem.
That's one of the most snobbish comments I've ever read. Imagine moving to a country who invented the language you speak and declaring your superiority to the entire population.
In a similar vein, "spice girl" said in a Glasgow accent sounds the same as "space ghetto" in an American one. But this time it's not solely about vowel shifts - you have the alveolar tap and l-vocalisation affecting things as well.
th-cam.com/video/a6tKdqRN21w/w-d-xo.html
This is hilarious
@@asdabir th-cam.com/video/Nepgbe-rYbQ/w-d-xo.html
It's so funny, I genuinely can't believe it
I've always been confused about adding a second syllable to words like "girl", to the point it sounds more like "girdle" or even "geh-dl"
As a casual observing Brit who used to live in NZ, I've always referred to this as the 'rotation of vowels'. Pin (Eng) becomes pun (NZ), pun becomes pan, pan becomes pen, pen becomes pin... and back to the beginning. Nice to stumble across the science that explains it. :)
I've often called it vowel transposition but rotation works well, too. Whatever you call it I'm afraid the result is jarring to Australian ears. 😂
Try asking for ten pins in a tin can. You end up with tin pens, but who knows what a tonne ken is?
I've observed that New Zealanders sleep on beards.
Back in the '80s, I was in charge of stationery for a small company in London whose staff included a New Zealand lass. She asked me for a new desk because her old one was full, and only after quite a lot of frustrated four-way discussion between me, her, and girls from Japan and South Carolina, about how one might - or might not be able to - tidy their desk, file things away, even throw things away, did she offer up a full computer floppy disc as proof of her need for a new one. (I was delighted to meet up with her again some 10 years later, in Perth, Western Australia!)
@@ek-nz Or say with a thick NZ accent, "Ten bucks and sixty six cents" ebcomes > "Tin bucks and suxty sux cints"
As a New Zealander, it's always fascinating how others interpret our accents.
I say accents because depends where you are from, very much determines the vowel sounds.
My ex is from Timaru and it was hard to talk to her about serious situations because I'd always laugh. I think the northern parts sound a little more like Aussies and the south is off doing their own thing. When we were in Europe it was easier to use fake British accents than to repeat everything four times over.
Thank you. I have heard about the Great Vowel Shift and about the waves of huge changes in the pronunciation of French, but before this video, it never fully clicked that whole sets of vowels change together because they'd end up too similar otherwise. I always understood it as "suddenly, people went crazy and started saying everything differently" rather than "a change starts a whole system of changes because vowels need to stay differentiated". How had that not clicked?
I'm glad that helped!
th-cam.com/video/a6tKdqRN21w/w-d-xo.html
3:36 a perfect pronunciation guide for us Kiwis in how to say:
"Jim's crashed, and begs for bucks."
In the Northern English accent.
All we have to do is to just try to say:
"Gems crushed in bags for books" in our own accent, and somehow, Bob becomes our uncle.
If I closed my eyes while you said TRAP, DRESS and KIT, you sounded so much like a native NZer that I thought you must've gotten someone else to do the voiceover. A great video!
That’s the magic of knowing the IPA/being a linguist.
@@bacondoesthings123 or knowing how to read "trep, driss, cut"
@@notwithouttext cut wouldn't work for him, his STRUT is very clearly not schwa.
@@EngliscMidEadwine you sure? he says it's schwa
@@notwithouttext not in his English accent. Cut isn't kət for him
I adore the New Zealand accent (well, the generalized one, I know there are regional differences, particularly in the far south of the South Island). It's funny, as an older person who grew up in West Texas, saying "Tin" for "ten" and "pin" for "pen" is totally natural. When I started learning to spell and was told the "e" in "pen" was supposed to be pronounced differently, I was so confused!
I have a few Kiwi friends, and I noticed that they said "bed" as /beed/, "head" as /heed/ but they insisted they did not. This made it a lot easier to distinguish an Aussie from a Kiwi, though.
They absolutely do and being a kiwi I try to tone down my kiwi accent. But if I didn't bother doing that it would be just as ear-melting. Although some are just so broad that you could only do them in jest.
@@moaningpheromonesPLEASE do not try to tone down your accent! As an American, I absolutely love New Zealand accents and find the idea of trying to get rid of them rather depressing.
You can tell which side of the ditch you’re from according to whether you eat fush n chups or feesh n cheeps.
I'm a geordie so using long vowels instead of diphthongs is very normal for me like in 'hoos' (house), 'roond' (round), 'caad' (cold), 'waam' (warm) etc. but I never thought about how similar that is to NZ English before.
This kind of reminds me of modular arithmetic. So, the ”Broad New Zealand” vowel system and the ”Northern England” vowel system are ”congruent, modulo 6”, with respect to each other (since there are 6 vowels) 😅.
Two New Zealand mathematicians arguing:
Are they congruent, modulo tin?
No, they're congruent, modulo sucks!
😂
@@gary.h.turner Nice one 👌🏻😅!
In 1980, as an 11-year old, I moved to (just outside) Penrith, Cumbria from Invercargill, New Zealand. I was immediately called "Igg" by my classmates because that's how I ordered egg when in the queue at school lunches. Despite having lived outside NZ for the majority of my life, even now I have extreme difficulty in making my pin and pen, which sound so distinct to my own ears, sound distinct to other people.
I was confused by the title until you explained about the rotation of vowels between words. For example, in England, "bitter" is a kind of beer, whereas, in New Zealand, it means "superior". Also, a "litter box" is where cats poop in the UK, whereas it is where New Zealanders deposit their mail.
What an amazing video! Coming from NZ this almost sounds spot on except I'm reminded of your "length and linking" video because some sounds would be longer said with an NZ accent. The speed of "gems" and "bags" for example is like hearing Natalie Portman saying "hair" 🤣
When you said trap, dress, kit etc that was perfect Kiwi! The sentence at the end wasn't though. I can't explain without a voice note, but the "Kiwi" sentence about crushed gems didn't sound like us at all.
I totally agree, I do believe that our accent is changing, especially with the younger generation. I’m often asked “How’ve ya bin?” Remember the rhyme about the pussy cat visiting the queen? Pussy cat pussy cat where have you been? I’ve been to London to visit the Queen. I started school in 1973, so that’s nearly 50 years ago & we had to pronounce words like been, seen, dress, trap & kit correctly. Thank you so much for a great video. Hello from New Zealand 🇳🇿❤🇬🇧
Agreed. I have an nz accent and your pronunciation of the last sentence sounds wrong, especially the gems
Funny story: I once had a manager with a broad Preston (Lancashire) accent, whose name was Pat. I also had a flatmate who was from New Zealand. Pat had called me at home and left a message with said New Zealand flatmate. When I got home, she said, ‘Oh, some guy called for you but I didn’t get his name… Park, or something??’ I was mystified but after a bit of quizzing, established that the call must have come from my manager. ‘His name’s Pat,’ I told her. ‘Ohhhh,’ she exclaimed in sudden understanding. ‘Pit’.
This is so interesting. I'm from Cheshire, live in North Lancashire and work in Stockport.. The accent variations locally in Lancs are huge and I no longer have any idea what my accent is!
As a (somewhat) older NZer, I find that the accent has changed enormously. Younger people - particularly women - sound much more Australian than they did forty or fifty years ago. Back then, we pronounced "better" with a flat NZ e vowel and aspirated ts. Now I often hear younger speakers using a more Australian open e and ds instead of ts.
As an Australian, I was thinking that young Australians are sounding more like kiwis!
I think the accents are merging
@@shaunmckenzie5509 Na. As an Australian I think the Kiwi accent has definitely become more Australian over my lifetime - the old "fush and chups" sounds we use to mock are rarer. Now if only our rugby team could become more like the NZ one ....
The more kiwis need to be understood internationally, the less strong our accent becomes. I spent some time in the UK 15 years ago and I still get asked where I’m from at home fairly often (especially when I’m talking to a Brit and manage to pick their accent lol). I hear plenty of kiwi TH-camrs who basically sound like a horrific kiwi-american franken-accent. Or a Southlander.
@@ek-nz Those American vowel sounds are taking over both here in Oz and in Kiwidom - yes, its a horrible franken accent. But we both still have the rising pitch at the end of sentences and are both still non-rhotic (unless you're in far south NZ and hence sound Scots). So not all distinctiveness is being lost. I note the influence of "Neighbours" and similar shows have spread that rising pitch into Estuary English, too.
@@ek-nz I grew up in Dunedin and in those days (many moons ago) one NEVER heard the Southland Burr north of Gore. Now many young people in Dunedin have it. I have no idea why. People of my generation just sound like Wellingtonians, only slower and less pretentious.
This was super interesting! Would love to see you do a Speech/Pronunciation/Accent video on Australia 🇦🇺 I am an Aussie from Melbourne and have found it fascinating to see our accent change over my own lifetime (30 something years). I grew up with my grandmother and parents having more English pronunciation , due to cultural decent and what was in TV at the time. However, now feel like there’s been quite a shift in our pronunciation, to more American especially the younger generations who do watch a lot of TH-cam and US content. However, the English aspect is still there too. I find it very intriguing! Would love to hear your expertise on it 😊 (sorry if you have already done a video on this, I am new to your channel and could find anything on AUS) thank you!
I love all this stuff. The thing that always baffles me is that it doesn't seem to cause any problem with intelligibility at all! As a Northern Brit, a New Zealander is just as easy to understand even though I should think they're saying completely different words. Weird!
A northern Brit, are you Scottish?
@@samdaniels2 No, I'm from the North of England.
@@jhonbus Where from, mate? Sorry, just curious. Do you share the vowels in the video?
Oh that's quite interesting. I was born in New Zealand, and grew up around the New Zealand accent, but I also maintained my family's quite strong Lancashire accent all the while. I found that people did have an easier time understanding my thick Lanc drawl than my friend with a well-pronounced southern RP accent. Real funny!
I'm a Northern Brit who was surprised to be mistaken for a New Zealander so often when I was in the States recently. Thanks for shedding light on my experience.
I live in Ireland and people ask me if I'm Australian....wtf I'm from Manchester
Super interesting, Geoff. And DRESS of New Zealanders are really signature and distinctive imo.
I loved the analogy with the queue and the social distance. That makes lots of sense. In Brazilian Portuguese we also have different pronunciations depending on the accent.
I love your videos. Huge respect. I wish I could study phonetics having so competent and kind professor
That's very kind. Thank you.
th-cam.com/video/a6tKdqRN21w/w-d-xo.html
As a northener from Rawtenstall and always having had trouble getting the kiwi accent. This just explained a lot. Again i feel compelled to thank you. Thanks.
Love it!, As an SSB, who moved/lived in the NE for a decade, and now lives in Nuu Zilund you got this spot on!
Wow, thanks!
excellent video!! as a Portuguese speaker that distinguishes the phonemes /e/ and /ɛ/, i always interpreted the kiwis vowels for ‘dress’ and ‘trap’ like so, rather than dress being /ɪ/
Thank you! The convention in NZ phonetics is to use /e/ rather than /ɪ/. It isn't centralized but I think most other English speakers hear it as KIT.
If we're talking about articulatory fantasy rather than acoustic values, I'm still waiting for the topic “contrasting [e] and [ɪ]”. And this makes me wonder... If the symbols for British English phonology were defined today, would they choose ⟨e⟩ for KIT and ⟨ɛ⟩ for DRESS? As they would probably have chosen ⟨a⟩ rather than ⟨æ⟩ for the TRAP vowel, I guess.
@@Sergio-hn9vr i don’t think so. i reckon i can distinguish [e] from [ɪ] fairly easily and for me most brits pronounce it as [ɪ] still
Great video! Isn't the NZ English "put" vowel the more centralized /ɵ/ while the "thought" vowel /o/ is symmetrical in height with the "dress vowel" /e/? I remember you arguing once on ESS that the "kit" vowel in SSB English could be transcribed as /e/. This would make NZ English and SSB English similar in that they both have /e/, /ɵ/, and /o/, except that /e/ is the "dress" vowel in NZ English and the "kit" vowel in SSB English
@@Sergio-hn9vr Indeed. You may remember that the original main 'point' of my famous/notorious blog article on SSB vowels was not a palace coup regarding symbols but to point out how far you can get transcribing SSB with primary cardinals. The problem with clinging to inaccurate symbols like /e/ for SSB is that it makes comparison with other systems harder.
Excellent video, as usual. And loved the transcription system in the "thanks for wathing / click here to subscribe" message!
It's interesting to watch New Zealand English evolving. I've read on Wikipedia that /ʊ/ becomes more centralised using the same pattern that /ɪ/ do. I wonder if it will merge with /ə/ and /ɪ/ some day. Taking into account that /uː/ is already centralised and diphthongised to [ʊ̈ʉ] as in many other dialects the centralised /ʊ/ will leave the close back vowel area empty. The next step in the New Zealand vowel shift might be the raising of /ɔː/ from [oː] to [o̝ː] or even [uː].
Hi, native speaker of NZE here, the /ɔː/ vowel is indeed pretty much somewhere between [oː] and [uː], so this has already happened. Also I'm not sure what you're referring to here with /ɪ/ and /ə/ merging, if you mean the KIT and COMMA vowels, then yes they've already merged, meaning that /ə/ appears on stressed syllables.
Anecdotally there's somewhat of a tendency to unround the high central vowels, /ʊ ʉː aʉ/ might better be written /ɨ ɘɨ aɨ/, or something to that effect.
We've also got a high front-ish rounded vowel, that fluctuates in quality from speaker to speaker between something like [ɵː] [øː] or [ʏː], the NURSE vowel.
Finally noteworthy point of interest is that there is one short/long pair where there is no noticeable difference in vowel quality, between /a/ and /aː/.
@@ori5315 thank you for the information!
@@ori5315 I would expect Kiwi English to have more length contrasts, considering that Australian are happy to use [ɪ ɪː e eː æ æː a aː ʊ ʊː] - bid beard bed bared span(verb) span(noun) bud barred pull pool.
I recall pronouncing books as boo-ks when I moved from Durham to Australia at age 5. Teacher asked me to get a book from the neighboring class and I went and asked for a bucket. Confusion ensued.
Not sure if that's a new end screen or I just haven't noticed before but you've written 'thanks for watching' in IPA, and it's reminded me of something... So there's a lovely podcast called Lingthusiasm, and they have merchandise including cards with "thanks" and "congrats" in IPA, thanks written as θæŋks. You've written θaŋks with an even more open vowel. But I definitely say θɛŋks! I'm from Tasmania, and the only other people I've come across (all mainland Australians besides my family) who share my pronunciation for that word are members of my family (and yes, I am the kind of person to ask all my friends and even my dentist how they say 'thanks'). One of the people who does the podcast is an Australian, so I'd expect them to put out a θɛŋks card if they pronounced it that way, but they didn't. I'm curious if you've come across the θɛŋks pronunciation before. I'd love someone to validate my ears.
I'm sure your transcription of your "thanks" is accurate. The TRAP vowel of broad AusE has been described as [ɛ], in addition to which vowels can be raised before nasals; some accents can neutralize TRAP and DRESS before nasals. Conversely, perhaps the most publicly recognized difference between old posh RP and modern SSB is the lowering of TRAP to [a].
You've just made me spend several minutes saying "thanks" to myself in different accents
I'm American and as near as I can figure, mine is /θeŋks/? Probably drifting into θɛŋks territory more often than I realize.
@@woodfur00 Do you have a TRAP DRESS contrast before nasals? Lots of Americans say benk etc.
@@DrGeoffLindsey Not entirely sure what you mean by that. I don't pronounce "ang" and "eng" appreciably differently, but that doesn't extend to other nasals.
@@woodfur00 Sorry, I meant to say velars. linguistics.washington.edu/research/publications/bag-beg-bagel-prevelar-raising-and-merger-pacific-northwest-english
Dr. Lindsey, could you do a comparison of New England and Australia? I'm facinated by the similarities in the vowel A (r) as in: mark and park.
Another similar linguistics person, Simon Roper, who has worked with Geoff in the past, has a video about the history of the "r" sound in English: th-cam.com/video/bq4XbdA3dTk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=8z6j50YGVb2bT3Tr
That was like vertigo at the end. I started hearing the New Zealand while reading the Yorkshire and vice versa.
Quite interesting. This reminds me of the eternal dilemma when adapting the phonetics of "strut" to spanish. As this vowel doesn't exist, it's converted into either an /a/ or /o/, meaning that e.g. in Mexico the word "plus" would generally be adapted as /plos/ whereas in Spain it would be /plas/ (Forgive me not having the phonetic alphabet on my phone). And funnily, that is basically the same as North of England vs NZ.
Yep, I'm Australian and I would say /plas/ is 100% the correct native way to pronounce the word. If I hear /plos/ I imagine Postman Pat (a kids show with funny accents)
My native 6 short vowels are exactly like those shown here, but our KIT vowel is spelled with "y" and it stands for [ ɨ ]
Hi, New Zealander here - this blew my mind and made me more aware of my own accent, so thank you for that, but I'd like to point out that when you said the sentences at the end, I couldn't hear the "crashed" or "crushed" part as anything aside from an English person saying "crashed". 99% of what you said sounds right, I just don't think our "u" sound like in "strut" or "crushed" moved quite as far as you think it did, it's still distinctly different from the Northern England "a" in "crashed", at least to me.
Fascinating. I'm from Northern England and I keep hearing the new Zealand in TH-cam videos. I've been finding it quite a jarring accent because the vowels are completely shifted compared to my own accent, as demonstrated here. I know it's just their accent but I find myself wanting to correct the shifted vowels and asking them to speak correctly because it can be difficult to understand them sometimes! I've noticed they pronounced 'care' as 'kee-er' so that one confused me too.
I'd love to hear a Yorkshire/Lancashire comparison. If I'm trying to work out which side of the Pennines someone is from, I always think the "o" in words like "Bolton" is the big giveaway. I love the generational comparisons as well. Would love to see more of them, especially comparisons of different generations from the same family who grew up in the same place.
The second o is reduced to ə in both accents I believe, indeed it seems in pretty much all accents, but I think the first o is a different vowel in each accent, maybe like the o in lot in Yorkshire, but like the u in strut in Lancashire? (Wiki suggests the oa in goat for a local pronunciation).
The main difference is that the r sound West of the Pennines is rhotic, whereas in most Yorkshire accents it isn't. Some Yorkshire folk though still speak a much older form of the accent that is near-indistinguishable from Lancashire.
It's not a clean dichotomy. There's more variation within each county than there is between the bordering areas of each.
@@RaunienTheFirst The majority of Lancashire isn't rhotic though. Even going back a century or so a lot of the county was non-rhotic.
@@RaunienTheFirst
That’s completely untrue. Probably 0.1% of Lancashire accents are rhotic now.
Thank you Dr. Lindsey. Could you make a video about points of articulations in the English language and if you have MRI images /videos for R, H, A, K, G sounds it would be very helpful.
there is an entire video on H, likely including an MRI. K and G differ in aspiration, there’s a video on that, so there may be something in there.
don’t know about R.
@@U20E0 Thank you.
Extremely interesting! Another strange coincidence is the use of /ə/ in stressed position in NZ and in "toned down" Northern English: "kit" /kət/ and "cut" /kət/. I believe "pit" can also be /pət/ or /pɨt/ in South African Enfglish (in certain environements). I have a weakness for stressed schwa, such as Belearic Catalan "més" /məs/ ("more"). Any other stressed schwas out there? I was wondering about a possible strong form "just" /dʒəst/ in RP. Not really sure... Any other specific words in RP with stressed schwa, if it is at all possible? Thanks for this wonderful visual explanation of "the vowel space".
Thank you! Please be patient, I'm in the process of making a series of STRUT-schwa related videos touching, I think, on all your points.
@@DrGeoffLindsey i shall be patient :) Thank you so much 😊
th-cam.com/video/a6tKdqRN21w/w-d-xo.html
@@DrGeoffLindsey th-cam.com/video/a6tKdqRN21w/w-d-xo.html
I'm Australian but with Kiwi heritage, spending a substantial portion of my childhood in Christchurch. In fluctuating amounts depending on how alert I am, I get asked frequently why I sound British despite never having been there or spending any time around the British when I was learning to speak. Australian accents have a distinct tier system that is usually tied to a very backwards understanding of intelligence (or class), and generally I've generally attributed it to the more articulated use of T's and S's, because that sounds more stereotypically British, and I've always been told that I sound articulate because of my emphasis on T's and S's. It's always been a point of contention because it just happens accidentally and people like to joke about it, but it's fun to know it's actually down to the Kiwi side. Going to start using 'innit' as well as 'sweet as'.
didn't realise that textbooks and tuition was getting so expensive in New Zealand :(
This was an entertaining video, as a native speaker of NZE with a huge interest in linguistics it was definitely refreshing to not see the standard IPA symbols that are used in NZE transcriptions (seriously, why are we using for the LOT vowel, when in precise quality it's more like [̟ɔ̟]??)
It's a shame you didn't go through the diphthongs/long vowels, as that's where a lot of other interesting quirks come up. The merging of NEAR/SQUARE is a distinctive feature, as well as the rounding+fronting of the NURSE vowel! And potentially ever unrounding of the GOOSE, FOOT, and GOAT vowels, though I've not seen this talked about very frequently.
Also a very low FACE vowel, depending on speaker it can be anywhere from [æɪ] to [ɐɪ], some speakers will also round their PRICE vowels to something approximating [ɔɪ]!
All interesting for sure. Hopefully in coming videos. Thank you
When Harry met Jacinda, they both lived happy ever after in Bondi.
I have heard this and couldn't articulate it. It can be challenging sometimes getting used to one accent on a show, and then hearing the other on another show. The vowels are shifted and can make it difficult to understand. Accents with vowel reduction(Like scouse) can sometimes sound like someone who has been outside in the cold too long and their mouth has gone numb :P
Fascinating stuff. I think speakers of a particular accent can detect a lot more nuance in pronunciation because they are attuned to subtle aspects of their own accent. This shifts your perception. For example, as a New Zealander the way we pronounce "dress" sounds more like Northern England pronunciation given in this video than the NZ accent attempt.
I'm from Northern England and the way New Zealanders pronounce dress sounds like 'driss' to me.
As a born & bred Kiwi, this makes so much sense. My ancestry includes folks from Cumbria. They used dialect words that sounded like a foreign language, but somehow I got the flow of the meaning from my grandparents.
On a very vaguely similar note, am I right in thinking some of the vowels in MLE are weirdly similar to the corresponding vowels in a very aristrocratic/old time RP? not enough of a linguist to explain properly but I'm SSB and comparing my 'o' as in 'so' to the queen or 1930s newreader it seems like their o's have more e to them, when I hear some young MLE speakers their o's seem closer to the posh o's than my own. Same thing with the i's in high. Maybe it's just me. But would be interested in a vid about this if there is anything to it
I used to follow a NZ youtuber, and once in a video she had an anecdote about building a deck.... I couldn't stop laughing (yes, I'm childish)
"The vowels changed a lot, or did they?" - a tie in to your American syntax video?
Hmmm. Not sure I understand what a "vowel space" is. And in other news, a sure fire way to identify a kiwi in the UK is the pronunciation of the word "it" which Kiwis pronounce like British "ut" [as in "utmost").
could you make a video about the trap/bath split? i find it so curious that new Zealand has it and australia does not to certain extent. is it just because of the gap in time between each of them were colonized?
Huh? I'm Australian and every single person I know has a huge difference between trap and bath.
@@KatzRool ohhh that's good to know! i think i heard that somewhere and wikipedia checked it out. thank you
@@KatzRool Depends on where in Australia you're from. This article ( lgzsoldos.blogspot.com/2020/06/trapbath-split-in-australian-english.html ) shows a chart of how often speakers from Hobart, Melbourne, Brisbane, Sydney and Adelaide pronounce the long /a:/ vowel in graph, chance, demand, dance and castle. Varies quite heavily from place-to-place
Ah I see, you're talking about the split in regards to other words. Trap and bath themselves are always split but many words are ambiguous as to which lexical set they're in.
I'm from Sydney and say all of those words in each set interchangeably, and sometimes with a vowel right in the middle. Kinda an either either thing for me :p
Australians and NZ pronounce these words exactly the same.
But chance, dance, glance etc can be different
I love your videos :)
I have a question about the "click here to subscribe" transcription at 4:02: by what process does subscribe end up having a /g/ or [g] in it? Is "skr" always really [sgr]?
Thank you! Within a word, there's no contrast between /ptk/ and /bdg/ after /s/, and phonetically plosives after /s/ sound more like English /bdg/. Please see my video on this: th-cam.com/video/U37hX8NPgjQ/w-d-xo.html
Had to watch this as I come from the North East.
By the way, have you noticed how New Zelanders tend to transpose the E and I vowels?
Is this why I’ve always liked Northern English accents?
I'm a northern English lass. It's all so fascinating. ☺
Similarly; from, what I’ve heard, ”Bacon”, in Jamaican accent, sounds like: ”Beer Can”, in Cockney accent 🇯🇲🥓🏴🍺.
As a kiwi, I feel like I should say that this is quite generalised. Here, where I live, there are quite a few variations on vowel sounds, and foreigners tend to cherry pick a very specific NZ accent when they talk about our pronunciations. I, and my peers speak similarly to the way that's described in the video, but there are some pretty big differences that nobody seems to be willing or able to point out.
Well he can’t pick all the accents in New Zealand can he? It’s like how he can’t pick every northern English accent he picked a general one from each and compared them of course there’s lots of variation within the accents of the countries
Nice to see Jopnah Lomu
As a speaker of American English, I would argue for a distinction between the two phonemes, and while I agree that schwa can be stressed, turning it into an upside- down V, the mouth changes shape in the process - if you say, “She’s the love of my life,” you can feel the difference between THE and LOVE. So perhaps what we really need to do is have a frank discussion of what it means to not stress something, regardless of which phoneme we’re discussing
Brilliant.
Brilliant
Ha ha, that's really clever. Or cliver? Anyway, Northern English here - and never even considered the linguistic relationship with our NZ pals before.
I once heard a Nzer talking about a big "Teddy Bear" but it came out a "Beeg Titty Bah " which led to much confusion.
As a New Zealander with strong British familial ties, I often get confused as British in NZ and vice versa. I heard the phrase said as "Jim's crushed and begs for books"
Along the same lines - an American saying “Rise up lights” sounds pretty much identical to an Australian saying “razor blades”
I’m born and raised in nz and my mums parents are from England, her dad’s side from Yorkshire in northern England. I’m a half cast Maori and European and sound strange even to kiwi’s lol
Outrageously fascinating, captain, but Y? Respectfully, NHG
Very interesting. My mother tongue is Yorkshire but after being in NZ for nearly 50 years some of that has gone so I reckon I've got the best of both worlds. I still say bath, grass, class, last and dance properly, mind.😄
What would happen to someone who said you were saying these words in an American accent?
@@stellabrando9308 I'd tell 'em they need to get their lugs tested.
@@tawawhite9668Ok, I thought they might end up beaten up or killed.
Whenever I start listening to a Kiwi, I start confused till my ears start adapting.
Funny how the vowels in the NE of England are so different from those just across the adjacent Scottish border.
The variation of accents in the British Isles is astounding. There's not usually *that* much variation over such a small distance, but there's noticeable differences from one town to the next. Leeds sounds different to Wakefield which sounds different to Barnsley which sounds different to Sheffield and so on. Of course, these highly localised differences are starting to fade as culture becomes more homogenised, but they're still there.
"You're a pain" in a Derry accent sounds like "European" also in a Derry accent
Many of us pakeha immigrants came from northern England and Scotland still perhaps that might be the reason for the similarities?
Gems in NZ english has a shifted sound compared to Jim's in northern english. You're using the australian pronunciation of gems. To me it sounds like you're saying ji rather than jeh
Me too. Kiwi here.
Here in OZ I hear 'crashed' more like 'creshed'.
As a non-native speaker of English, I wonder how English speakers from different regions can understand each other...
As a New Zealander you'd have to have a very extreme zild accent for those sentences to sound similar if a northerner and a New Zealander said them but there is some truth there.
I always find it weird when people pronounce an I like an E or an E like an I. Like saying "beg" but it sounds like "big" (like in Australia) or like saying "six" and it sounds like "sex" (like in Scotland). Although I've also heard Americans pronounce an A like an E, basically saying "end" instead of "and" (but not quite the same, and more nasal sounding).
I agree, it gets confusing. Theres a funny video of an English MP repeatedly asking a Scottish MP to repeat a sentence as he can't understand him. The sentence included the word disability which was pronounced 'dessabelletee' by the Scot.
As a Kiwi this is so weird to realise lol
Bruh today i learned that some people use a different vowel for "put" and "strut" :/
I'd always heard that the NZ dialect was due having a higher proportion of Scots than Australia did. No idea if that's actually true.
The far south of NZ (the part with all the Scottish place names) definitely sounds Caledonian to my untrained ears - its different to that of someone from Auckland. I've got a mate from Dundee who lived there for a while and felt right at home, though admittedly that may have been because the climate was all too familiar.
Depends where. Deep South yes, especially in rural areas, but in Christchurch (and Willington) I think there’s a funny RP thing going on from the old days, especially with the older generations. Auckland definitely has a Pacific influence to my ears these days, and Dunedin you would think would have the Caledonian but at least to me it’s not noticeable. Perhaps slightly less clipped than Chch and Welly.
@@ek-nz chch can be pretty different when within the city. That RP sound is associated with the private schools/Upper class especially
3:55 No. That does NOT sound like a New Zealander saying "gems crushed in bags for books". To me it sounds like a Northern Englander saying... something, but not that.
How or why does such a shift occur?
the nz accent in millennials and gen z is quite distinctively different than the typical nz accent shown here. Probably due to globalisation, millennial/gen z kiwi accent is sometimes much closer to australian or south london accents
Would that be why my "gems" doesn't match with his "Jim's"?
It would be interesting to a non-speaker of English, say a monolingual German speaker, they would probably perceive these two accents as remarkably similar
Weird. I use to think some New Zealand and Scottish vowels sounded alike. Not sure why
There could have been an influence from immigration. When I visited NZ I was constantly reminded of a Scottish references. In particular in Invercargill many of the street names are Scottish places and a whole block of streets are named after Scottish rivers- Tay, Tweed, Clyde etc. We chose to eat in a cafe on Spey St as we live less than a mile away from the River Spey,
New Zealanders and Southern Californians are slowly beginning to sound alike. Words like "really" are pronounced as "ruhlee" by both.
From "Flight of the Conchords": "He may be dead" - "He maybe did what?"
😆 th-cam.com/video/NRdg1MOYxHo/w-d-xo.html
SSB?
Super Smash Brothers
jk Southern Standard British
I thought nz accent was closest to south african
NEW ZEALAND MENTIONED WOOH
The vowel space - what it is and how it works wasn't very clear or aaccessible in here for me. My brain feels foggy now. In a different way at least.
Nut t'my lugs they hevn't me lad.
I find your pronunciation, and that of most British people, of 'Zealand' odd. You say ZEEland, rather than like it's 'sea-land' with a z instead of an s. That's obviously etmologically sound but every kiwi pronounces it more like it's spelt, like "zeal-land".
All English speakers say Zee-Land but Kiwis shorten it so it sounds more like Zullund. I am not sure why Zealand was spelt that way in English but most people just pronounce it as they read it. There are no words in English that start with 'z' but make an 's' or 'sh' sound.
@@IvarDaigon It only sounds like zullund when people speak overly fast. There's a glide there in kiwi accents.
Broad New Zealand.... You can just say "Kiwi"
I have found three recognizable accents(to me) in the time I have lived in NZ. There is the Maori accent, the Pakeha Standard and Pakeha Broad. Locals tell me there is at least 4 with south end of the South Island having a soft rolling R, but I have only ever met one person from there and I never noticed it. I was a brand new arrival though and couldn't even tell the difference between Kiwis and Aussies at the time. My wife has the standard Pakeha accent and my brother in law has the broad. Going to get them both to read out these sentences for science.
Thahnks? Not thaynks?
Femly fan day at the pack.
Jawdropping
Look, whilst every well educated and well spoken New Zealander does occasionally slip a wrong vowel or three in, many of us can out'pronounce around 80-90% of the inhabitants of the UK and match a further 5-15% :-p I was *so* horrified by the low quality of speech and education when I moved to England (Cotswolds) that I intentionally avoided excessive social contact with the natives and instead studied and practiced my pronunciation alone and online. My wife who is from Spain lived in Ireland for a while and felt similarly. For her BBC radio was her reference and although she does still sound Spanish her English is exceptionally strong and mostly natural, partially as a result of that tactic. I sent her your weak forms video a few minutes ago and will watch it again with her shortly. Cheers. PS, I drive a small car to make up for my large kwila deck. Ahem.
That's one of the most snobbish comments I've ever read. Imagine moving to a country who invented the language you speak and declaring your superiority to the entire population.
perhaps a more simpler explanation would be, Kiwis have had their brains rattled by too much rugby union