I can honestly say I have been “that guy” in the parking lot watching a group of Ebikers come in. For reasons unknown to me, I simply thought they were lazy and would often tear up the trails. Pair that perception with my ongoing attempt to get my wife into mtbing. No matter how easy I thought the trail or short the distance was, she never had a good time, until she rode an ebike. She doesn’t want to ride 4-5 days a week like I do nor does she feel inclined to redo challenging climbs. The ebike for her (and for many) is a way to enjoy the trails without feeling overly frustrated when it comes to climbs. I am stoked on e-bikes now as it allows me to enjoy bikes with my wife!
This is awesome Spencer! So rad of you to share your story and share the perspective of someone who's been on both sides. And congrats on getting your wife on the trails, so cool.
That's so cool. I met a guy in his 70s recently and I saw he had a dirt bike in his garage and he told me he had to stop riding it due to weight but switched to E-biking on the same trails. I thought, awesome whatever keeps you out there doing things in nature. Thanks for sharing your story too. We don't know why people are doing what they do until we talk to them, but they often have compelling reasons.
… somehow survived an Aortic Dissection/ best part of 5 years to recover (somewhat) …without an ebike I’m stuffed (literally) but am out there riding heaps again + loving it. t back country was always my “thing”, now I’m back
I've also experienced some elitism when I first started mountain biking. I remember the first time showing up to the trail head with my cheapo "mountain bike" I got from the department store, skateboarding helmet and running shorts on. Got some snarky "You gonna ride on that?" remarks from people. Thank goodness mountain biking is so fun! Whenever I see people on cheapo bikes or wearing hockey pads I give them a compliment. I also used to be like them.
Absolutely and that's great to hear!! We always go out of our way to find newer riders or ones on bikes and gear like yours and welcome them! We're so much more stoked to see those people on the trails than another dude kitted out head to toe with a flashy carbon race rig.
Funny you say that, i have a mate in his early 40s with a £500 pounds vitus hardtail needs brake pads and shock servicing he wears a cheap helmet and tracksuit pants, and nobody on a 10k bike can touch him. Its him that looks down at them and me 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Thanks Drew for your comments. I have had mountain bikes since 1984. I experienced a similar situation when rock climbing as sport climbing was just beginning. Now Sport Climbing is generally accepted except for a few climbing areas. I have friends that ride EMTBs and they are 78 and 76 respectively. I bought a EMTB when I broke my leg riding a regular bike at Sandy Ridge in 2020. I was able to ride my EMTB to recover. I could not have recovered as quickly without my EMTB and I still have hardware in my leg. II am 66 and I switch between riding EMTBs with my wife who is 65. and my friends who are 10 years older, and with riding my analog MTBs. I enjoy both types of bikes equally. I find riding is riding. It is not cheating as I find I get more exercise on my EMTB as I am out longer. Please continue to fight the cause that E-bikes are not a crime.
Most of the eMTB hate comes from those who have never ridden one. If they did, they'd realize they still get the cardio benefit and they are so much fun.
Very well said Drew, it's the reason I call everyone riders! It should not be important what bike you're riding, or how you're riding it. The most important thing should be getting out there and having fun with your mates!
I was like that at first, but have really changed my mind. I have a friend who used to be an amazing rider but has been stricken with a disease that just doesn't allow him to expend the energy needed, and one day when talking with him he expressed that it might be a great way to get back into it. I started thinking about how one day this may extend my ablility to ride to a riper older age and that this was something that previously wasn't available. This is an opportunity for those that no longer can or never could enjoy such a fantastic sport or lifestyle.
Thanks for posting this. This has been my ONLY issue with owning an e-bike. At 50, it's gotten me WAY more miles than my regular mtb...but the looks of disgust and snarky comments out on the trail are the biggest drawback...ALL I'm trying to do is have fun and be out in nature but now you make me feel bad about myself. The "locals only" vibe is alive and thriving unfortunately.
Totally agree with you. I ride both and just don’t get why people are so against eMTBs. When my wife rides with me, she uses my e-bike and I ride on a regular MTB so she can keep up. It’s all riding a bike and having fun on the mountain. Totally agree with you 👍
because ebikes are knob *enablers*. It allows ppl that don't have the fitness or skill(usually both) to be on the trails, thus endagering us and themselves. If you want to be a mountain biker.. you need to grow organically, not leapfrogging everything just because you have a motor between your pedals. It is bad for you, as a rider, it is bad for the others you might meet on the trail, it is bad for the sport... which, actually, is a different one all together. as for who's who.. it is simple... if you want to be a mountain biker, you need to ride the mountains on your bike. Ebikes are not mountain bikes..well, partially they are but, most ppl I know use them for everything.. commuting to work, going to have some beers with the guys, riding casually in the city(joy ride with wife, gf, etc).. so, the moped term is actually more appropriate. I have rode ebikes in the past and for sure I will ride other ebikes in the future.. but, I consider myself a mountain biker because I ride real bikes all over the mountains, on my own strength, using my acumulated skill. Ebikes don't offer that. It is that easy and I don't understand why ppl complicate the subject so much.
I'm against ebikes because ebikers poach trails, destroy trails, and are generally riding way too aggresively for the multi-use trails that make up 95% of our trails. Hikers and dog walkers don't like people on MTB going by them at 5-10mph and constantly complain about us, and now they have to deal with peopel going by them at 15-20mph. ebikers are generally newcomers, yes, but they also don't believe the rules and respect of the trails apply to them at all. because they spent $7K on a bike.
@@eugenux same. my exp with ebikers over the past few years has been overwhelmingly negative. they act like entitled jerks and then get butthurt if you disapprove of their blatant disrespect of others and the trails. most are new comers who don't have the fitness, skills, or knowledge, and have zero interest in learning any of it. there have always been trail poachers and bad actors, but the majority of it that i see now is always people on ebikes who are older and just have that "i'm old and lazy, so i will do what i want and i don't care about anyone else' attitude.
come on stop the generalizations. I've riden for 30 + years. wife got me a trek exe last year. Its great e bike but more important it's a great bike. I still ride my analog but have to admit the trek puts a smile on my face. also I'm almost 70 and have no intention of giving up either bike.@@manaknight333
I came to moutain biking about 2.5 years ago after lung cancer took most of my right lung and paralyzed my right diaphragm. I run about 40% of normal lung function and pretty much exclusively ride an emtb. Emtbing has been a complete life saver, life changer for me allowing me to be an athlete again while also helping me rehabilitate my body to get as strong as it can after 4 thoracic surgeries in 18 months. There is really no other mountain sports that I can participate in now. Prior to lung cancer I was a big time rock climber having put up first ascents in the Cascades of Wa state, and was sponsored by some companies for a time. Ive been quite obsessed with riding my emtb clocking 300k of ascent/descent my first year and 430k my second and have progressed to seeking out the hardest dbld blacks I can find in the WA state. I struggle pretty hard with the culture and community of mountain biking, though it is getting better. The difference between pulling up in a parking lot full of climbers and full of bikers is pretty drastic and quite disheartening. Climbers just tend to be friendly and chatty, dont judge, and its just normal for climbers to chat it up when gearing up in a parking lot. Not so with bikers.. Just pretty cold and quiet in general. It seems like there is quiet a bit of ego with moutainbiking and with that insecurities and judgement. The ebike hates gotten alot better but its still there. A few years ago it was so bad I considered putting handicap stickers on my bike or clothes or helmet (I have a permanent disability parkiing placard) to quite getting yelled at out on the trails or maddogged in the parking lots (my disability is pretty hidden). I dont feel that way anymore and i've had some really great random encounters with other riders lately up here in WA state. I think its better here than most places and I've noticed alot of the real shredders finally adding an emtb into their quiver in the last year. I'm cautiously optomistic for the future.
Thanks for sharing that story and we're glad you're still here and shredding some major miles! Sorry to hear you've had some pretty bad experiences. We're not all dicks.
Well, being 47 (old af) , and our boy being 3 years, me and wifey have maybe 1-2 hours of me-time every other day. Emtb = 2-3 times the ammount I could do on my regular mtb. And it also makes the uphill and flats waaay more fun 😁
I loved what Jeremy Hyatt (over the Fire Mtn Trails in NC) said when asked. “We have carte blanche to make our own rules. One of those rules is that we allow ebikes. We have had zero issues with anything (out on the trails). Anyone who discredited an ebike has never ridden one. That’s the bottom line,” I don't normally ride an ebike, but I have no issue with those who do. Funny thing, I have ridden dirt bikes for 40 years and not nearly as much hate for those.
I understand your experience and recently deactivated my Facebook account. I grew tired of reading people nagging at each other for every little thing. I love riding my bike and I am frustrated that anything and everything has to be divisive. Nuanced opinions matter but having fun matters more. I stopped riding with some people because of their attitude and I told myself I won't be that guy and try to be supportive of others. Marketing in the bike industry also plays a role in this, creating fads and creating a culture of constant technological improvement (or not) until they convince you to change your ways. I got into it to be outside riding, not arguing with strangers. I hope you will keep making positive content as I enjoy watching it, and please, do not let yourself be beaten down by the loud Minority. Filtering the noise is key these days. Have a safe one.
Don't worry man, the negative people, are still a small minority....most people are just like you, happy to be out mtb, happy to see others out, etc...keep doing what you do...its awesome
Thank you for taking the time to post this. I have been an avid mountain biker since 1986 and added an e-bike in 2021. It added a whole new layer of fun and technical challenges. I can honestly say I am probably riding twice as often since then. Unfortunately, I can also say it brought to my attention those riders’ attitudes you mention. Hoping most will grow up someday, but in the meantime I try not to let it bum me out too much.
I am pretty much the same. The amount of hate online is crazy. I am also why the forest service and BLM are so out of touch. I think allot is about advocacy. Many bike organizations like COTA in Bend are anti ebike. Sad
I'm an acoustic rider but promis you, there have been some climbs that I wished for an ebike! Whatever bike gets you out on the trail, it's awesome and if you can get in a few extra laps because you have an ebike even better😊
Man I’ve been alive long enough to know there are tools in every group. Some people just need something to be angry about. I’ve had the little sneer remarks when I’m on my emtb and I just reply with a fun, light-hearted remark so they know it didn’t get the better of me. Responding with joy takes their ammo away and their sour behavior just falls back on them. Keep shredding bro! 🤙🏼
Drew, your analogy is perfect! I grew up surfing and “paddle boards “ were considered the worst to short boarders. Now paddle boards have broadened water board sport access to people and places never imagined. Without e-bikes, my wife wouldn’t be able to ride with me and not puke! I will ride e-bikes one day but the big $ goes to the wife’s bike for now! I’ve been re-wording my e-bike support and stating that the e-bike hater is against women, elderly and handicap access to the outdoors….. usually shuts em up especially in today’s political climate. Just gotta keep helping IMBA to get forest access legal ! Then access is huge!
As a dirtbiker i was about to give up mtb riding until I found emtb's. The emtb world completely changed my life and filled the gap between mtb and dirtbiking. As a dirtbiker the eMTb checks so many boxes. I eMTb's ride in Austin and NWA. Love both areas but NWA is my preference due to the entire vib of the NWA area and volume of trails.
I have been riding in Ireland since 2019 I got an Ebike in 2022 and I never encounterd anything else than genuinly nice people, have a simple greeting a chat or a laugh with them when they call me a cheater (For F's sake it's only a bit of banter) I just enjoy the part where we all are out having a good time, enjoying our passion and the community. Happy trails to all of you no matter what your ride is 😁
E-bikes have changed my local trails for me. Trails that I stopped doing because the climb was so hard I couldn’t enjoy the downhill because of being tired. Also being able to session downhills multiple times made so many places a bike park. It made riding so much fun again! I can ride with really fast analog riders I could never keep up with before. This is an example just like so many other issues in this world where people need to stop judging others “different decisions” and worry more about who they are being in the world.
After reading a lot of the comments, I have 2 more thoughts: 1. I was so thankful having a an e-bike after I got c0v1d. I literally thought I would die on the climb I did every day on my normal bike. Took 2x the time and instead of the steady 160, I was in the 180-190 range and had to stop 4-5 times where I just pedaled up before getting it. The e-bike helped me get back in shape, and also not just rot in the lockdown when recovering (also lucky to have a trail 200m from my house ... so once I was back in shape I would do a normal bike lap, get home, get the e-bike and do laps for hours ...) 2. I would love to see my old "ride 4ever" BMX friends on the trails. I would not care if they were riding an ATV, an e-bike, a dirt bike, a pogo-stick or literally a MOPED. Any of those would be better than sitting home, drinking beer, watching the game and working on their 1st/2nd/3rd stroke or heart attack with 50+ kilos to lose. As I said, eMTB is not the same workout as a bike ride, but if I could just get those guys back on anything that's not a couch, would make me really happy. And yes, do enough laps and play with the assist and it CAN BE a very good and intense workout as well. With that ... I also have to say that I have respect for anyone who takes the time to get out of their house and into the forest, or dirt road, or road, or where ever they choose to do some activity. Getting up at 5 and going to the gym, or getting up early and squeeze in a ride before work DOES take an effort. .... Talking of which .... have to gear up and squeeze in that before-work ride .... acoustic suffer Friday, as Saturday/Sunday it is e-bike laps at the park ...
Thanks for sharing!! Good luck getting your crew back out! Maybe just go to a shop and rent one or two e-bikes for a day and tell them to grab a helmet you’re picking em up! Never know, forcing them out for that first ride could be all it takes to save a life!
Im in the same boat. Ive seen the looks and heard the comments from the bro crowd. I got an bike because im 50 i started riding again 4 years ago! I wasnt the most healthy before then. I found mountain biking and it saved my life! I changed how i ate quit smoking focused on my health and was much happier! That being said it made me crazy that i only had one loop in a day. I was exhausted by the time i got to the top. I couldnt progress any further than where i was no matter how hard i tried. I was ready to give up. Then a buddy let me borrow his ebike for the day. I fell in love with this all over again. That day i rode 17 miles like it was nothing! Till then my longest ride was 12 miles and i thought i was going to die. Now im able to ride with my friends who have been riding for 20+ years and do a 25 mile day! Turns out i have asthma and severe damage to my lungs from smoking for 20 years! I cant help that i cant pedal like you guys that weigh far less than me (230lbs i was 265!!) and never smoked never did terrible things to your body partying and generally living a touring punk rock band lifestyle! Ive done too much damage to be as fit and capable as you! BUT… im out there riding loving every moment i have doing this! Im no longer angry unhealthy unhappy drunk on drugs or any of that! This amazing thing has saved my life! I out there doing it! For the same reason you are.. BECAUSE I LOVE IT! Theres no reason you need to hate on me or anyone else riding an ebike! We are the same people! Out there riding and loving it! At least im not on the damn couch watching tv for a lifestyle! This does not belong to you! Its all of ours! I feel incredibly lucky that i can do it! Be the cool welcoming people you were before. It doesnt matter what i ride or why i ride. Im out there just like you are
I found it so regional as well. I get way more flack in certain areas of Utah. We just came back from Phoenix and we had a great interactions bikers and other bikers and people even asking what kind of bikes are we on! I think it all comes down to people’s misunderstanding and their own issues with their egos. Life is short, enjoy the ride!
Word. In my case, sometimes my knee doesn't allow me to ride my MTB. On trails that allow it, I'll then ride my eMTB. You're correct, it's about getting out and riding. It really doesn't matter what you ride as long as the bike is legal, you enjoy it, and have fun.
Amen! The only MTBr's that I've come across saying shit about eMTB's are insecure or ignorant. I've been riding MTB for over 30 years, since I was a kid growing up in BC, and now still ride as much as I can in LA area. I have 4 MTBs, one is an E, and I ride it the most by far... unless I'm riding with other non-E riders or hitting a lift-operated park. I used to make excuses for riding it, but fuck that, it's so much fun. I can go on rides twice as far, get way more scenery, get higher up the mountain or deeper into the woods, and still burn the same calories as a ride on my MTB.
One thing I learned during my time playing D1 Soccer is that there are people that just have "bad sportsmanship". It's all about having fun and having a good time.
I don’t get people who think they gain something from bringing others down, what a way to live!😂 Hikers, MTB, Emtb, dirt bikes, we’re all on the trails to get away and have a good time. I’m not going to let it get ruined by a bunch of snobs. Just give them a “have a good one pal” and be on your way 🤙
I got into MTB during the covid days, it's something I did as a kid, grew up racing MX, raced BMX in my 20's, and in a couple month I'll be picking up my first eMTB. Ever since an eMTB rider joined our riding group I've taken the view, whatever helps someone get out to enjoy the activity, the outdoors, get fresh air, etc, the better it is. Be it limit time to ride, physical fitness, physical ability, etc, it doesn't matter, if an eMTB is what it takes to get out on the trails, do it! At 40 years old, I'm not fit, enjoy riding and have no issues getting in a 2 hour ride on my MTB, but I'm limited in what trail networks I can ride either do to how much climbing is involved, or just the time/distance the trails are from home a 2 hour ride doesn't justify the 4+ hour round trip, and this is where the eMTB will come in HUGE!
@@TheLoamWolfI don't know why you guy celebrate lazy mentality?!, I am also a 40 years old.. and of course I get fat-ish and out of shape-ish(because I snowboard) in the winter but when spring comes, so are the trainings.. and I also have a family, I'm not a lone wolf living in the mountains. 3 months of hard training or 4-5 months of decent training gets you in enough shape to do a multi-stage enduro race... and I know because I did it last summer.. so, the age is BS argument. Ffs, 40 years is not 70 or 80. With decent will power and mind focus you can still get in a very powerfull shape.. anyone can. In fact, it is almost a must if you want to have a proper functional body in your later years.
Turning 54 in a few months….my eMTB is a life changer….im riding at least a few times a week and checking out new spots all over the so cal and lovin being outside. I can ride deep into the hills and stay moving for hours at a time. Makes me feel 15 again… At first I was subconscious about being the new guy on a Ebike and ruffling feathers with locals…but now I could care less-I’m gettin better and doin it more!!
I don’t ride an e-bike but I have no problem with those who do. I hope to get the opportunity to ride one soon. I agree that we should all be more welcoming to other people who choose to enjoy spending time outside riding bikes. Thanks for putting this out there Drew. Keep doing what you are doing.
Acoustic rider here ✋🏼 Douchebags gonna douche. I race XC so an e-bike isn’t my jam but ngl, I’m a little jealous on non-workout days of my riding buddies on e-bikes If someone sneers at you in the parking lot just think about how sad things must be for them if they feel the need to sneer at a fellow rider. Ride on. 🤘
Well said. I have 4 different types of mtbs. One is a kenevo ebike. I enjoy riding them all for different reasons on different trails on different days. They’re each fun in a unique way. I’ve had some longer rides on the ebike with a lot of elevation that I couldn’t manage on my non powered bikes. My ebike also is a ‘free’ lift at some Dh places and lets me session and get better on some trails as a result
It isn’t MTB vs eMTB that we should focus on here. It is intolerance and straight up bad manners. They exist everywhere and it never goes away with more intolerance and bad manners.
I think the mentality toward eBikes is changing. More and more of us are starting to ride them and most have no choice but to deal with seeing them. Hell on the trail I even make jokes when on my eeB and someone is in front of me on an acoustic by saying things like, cheater coming thru or some other joke. The vibe is getting way better at least here in the Southeast.
Hey man, great video. I moved to e-mtb a couple years back. I am 57, but I don’t want to make it about age or disability. E-mtb has helped me progress so much from the Amish bikes. They also allow me to ride longer in the outdoors (and for more days in a week) where I love to be. I’m not sure where the shaming comes from… certainly don’t get that where I live. Super fit riders just say, yep I’ll do that at some point, but amish biking is my only form or cardio. I get that.
You called it, when you are struggling up every hill and the guy bringing up the rear isn't sweating, that can demoralize the whole group. But when they realize that I have already ridden two laps before they got there and I will be riding another lap when they start the after ride beverage hour........yep never going back. Over 40 now, career and kids.........and with the assistance of Bosch I can now still ride like I am 20, and still have the energy to chase little man, do my husband duties and still be apart of my community it's a win-win. Heck I have almost convinced the local bike shop owner to start ordering and stocking ebikes.....it boils down to one simple thing......LETS RIDE
Hi drew. Thanks for sharing. I think what people who dis ebikes don't understand is that most of us don't ride them because we're lazy. We ride them because they let us do double or triple the number of laps in the same time period as on an acoustic bike. And they get you amped to ride even where you're not 100 per cent feeling super energised. So they offer more laps and more riding. What's not to like? And mostly the people who don't like ebikes are people who haven't ridden an ebike yet!
Hey Drew, you're an excellent embassador of Mountainbiking and e-Mountainbiking, please don't let those things affect you. Those haters are just a bunch of frustrated people. Stay strong mate 💪 💪 💪. (ps: what would they say about me with 4 bikes at home, two with a motor and other two without motor, would I be just a 50% cool guy) 😂
Great video and totally true! Riding should be positive and inviting for all. I want everyone on a bike, having fun, getting healthy and understanding it better. My experience is a little different but same principle. When I was first starting out I was not "sleek" in design, I was more of a clydesdale weightclass and so was my buddy. We were trying to get back into shape and learn. It was crazy to me that both groups (mountain/road) made comments to us. Slamming our gear, bikes, speed and size. It bothered me more than it should have. Great video and I share your thoughts on this. Be kind, have fun and keep pedaling.
Thanks for the video! Such an important message not just for mountainbikers! People just get shat on for being different or not being part of some thing. I don't know how many times I heard people say: "It was just a joke. Don't be so touchy." When they actually tried to insult you and try to make you feel bad for reacting to it. Probably, most people who shit on others are just compensating for insecurity or other issues. There might be no scene, sport or group on the planet that's different than this. So the only solution is be vulnerable, talk about it and gather the real people around you. :)
Well done sir. I used to be 'that' guy back in the late 90's. But, now after going through a number of surgeries I finally got back into it during COVID. I am very slow and I have to be careful on jumps and the like. And I recently got a few 'bro' teenage guys snicker and yell sarcastic cheers at me. And let's just say I let them know what a thought of their behavior. The conversation ended with them apologizing. It consequentially taught me a lesson and I now do my best to be more welcoming - especially guys my age. Cheers!
People have issues with change for one and then there's the jealousy/anger response when you can do laps and clear complex climbs with ease. Plus there are lot of people out there that ride for their own ego/fitness and not so much for 'fun'. Emtbs are fun, period, a lot of fun! Are when people aren't having as much fun as you or don't believe you should be enjoying yourself so much, sadly, they can react negatively. In BC, Canada, I rarely hear negative comments out on the trail with my emtb. So many people own emtbs here and in some instances, you see more emtbs at the trail head than mtbs. From what I've read and heard, these criticisms are heard more in the USofA than other countries around the world where emtbs are more popular and accepted. I still believe in the good nature of the mountain bike community, but with all the trail restrictions, divisiveness and judgement south of the border I can see why there are issues. Land of the free? Not so sure.
Your talent on an analog or any bike is amazing and it’s incredible to hear that you would get that kind of reaction when hitting a parking lot. Thank you for validating my ability to get back into biking with the assistance of an E Mtb bike. I have an analog bike also and work it into my routine but the emtb bike helped me this year at age 57 to get back into something I did for 30 years, but let go for 10+ years due to a busy career.
Agreed. It seems to be so rampant in society to be this way nowadays. It’s really not that hard to just be nice, even if you don’t agree with someone on a particular topic.
@@Lex-Rex this may be true, but I can make the choice not to contribute. I am doing better at being positive as I get older. I’m now 42 and there are just not that many things worth being unkind about. Admittedly it’s taken me too long to get to this point, but I feel if we all try to improve a little bit, it could have a big impact.
Damn spitting TRUTH here Drew. Im 54 and have ridden MTB's since 1988. I do feel some of my friends look at emtb's with distain--these guys have never been on one mind you. I just bought my first emtb after I rode about a dozen rides on different models. (Finally bought a Crestline 50/75 a few weeks back which is so good!). The reality is: I can access trails that are WAY higher up and I can ride my favorite DH trails without killing myself climbing up 3K vertical like I feel when I'm on my analog. This debate is never going to end to be honest. A-holes will be a-holes. I find myself just riding with buddies that want to ride either type of bikes. Love the Loam Wolf content, and I want to personally thank you for helping me make an informed decision ✌
Mountain Bikers have become the Roadies of yesteryear… Always on Strava looking for PR’s and KOM’s and missing out on the essence of riding which is why I enjoy riding my E so much! I ride more, explore more, no Strava and smile more. Drew put it out there and I hope the riders are listening…
As a 65+ year old, I can tell you that our ebikes have been central to keeping us riding. My body is high mileage and I'm getting old enough it is both age and mileage. As much as I like to ride, if ebikes weren't an option, neither my wife or I would be still be riding. We ride for recreation and enjoyment, and a little exercise. The reality is that at our age, and bad knees, etc, neither of us can ride enough to have that be our primary exercise. We've got a 100' elevation change in the first 1/2 mile around our block (it's a 3 mile trip to circle our block), which pretty much eliminates 'fun' from the equation as far as my wife is concerned. At our age, as our doctor as said, it is duration of the activity that is most important, not the intensity. Ebikes make the fun possible where it would other wise not be.
Completely agree man! Doesn’t take much to be friendly and share the stoke. Why be a dick and potentially sour someone’s experience on an mtb. I love riding bikes and if more people are getting into it and helping grow the sport, it’s a win.
I just got an emtb, and at 55 fat and overweight it's been life changing. I can do a 20-30 mile ride on my emtb and have my heart rate in Zone 3 for a good two hours and not be tired when done. On my amish bike if I did 10 miles, I'd spend a good chunk of that up in Zone 4 especially after long hills and have to rest to get it back down. I've been riding in winter when conditions allow and I'd have never done that with my old bike. I've no interest in tearing up trails, it's a Class 1 mid-drive bike with pedal assist only. I'm loving this.
I must admit, I was one of those eMTB haters a couple years back. I even won the “E-Biking is Not A Crime” t-shirt contest on the Loam Wolf instagram with my sassy e-bike dragging submissions. I ended up softening my stance and last year demo’d a Nukeproof (RIP) Megawatt and had a blast. So much fun. I was yeewwwing with delight at the rocket-like ascension. And descending was just as fun as always. Now I wear the “E-Biking is Not A Crime” t-shirt with pride.
Great mindset. At the end of the day, those types of folks are negative & if it wasn’t E-bikes, they’d find something else to complain about. I don’t own an E-bike but I’m confident it will be my next bike purchase. Thanks for sharing, brother! ✌🏼🤟🏼
I have nothing against e-MTB, but there are assholes in every hobby, MTB/E-MTB not immune. Climbing a trail to have an e-MTB buzz my rear tire instead of ringing a bell or giving me a warning 15sec ahead of time isn't good stewardship. Do that crap and I'll just climb slower, especially since I can probably balance going 1mph better than the e-MTBer can. Ring the bell and say hi and I pull over nicely. Life is a mirror.
Life is a mirror! Love that. yeah buzzing the tire of a stranger is not a cool move at all! I'd be rather upset as well. Everyone should be courteous and polite, pretty simple to just say hi.
I've found every hobby/sport gets ruined on the internet. But when I'm out doing the things I love those people I meet are 99% awesome people. The comment sections and social will really amplify the negativity, but I'm riding 3x a week during the season and I've found both types of riders are almost always super chill. I don't see myself switching to electric, I like the sufferfest, but I'd love to get one for my gf so she can come out with me. We have to stay united as a community to keep expanding trail access. We've lost so much for dirtbikes we don't want to see the same for mtb.
Good point about negativity be amplified on the internet... I suspect a lot of mountain-bikers (both assisted and non-assisted) spend time online - we're here after all! - and as you say, any negativity can end up get carried with them next time they go for a ride...
Thanks for sharing. It has been interesting observing the mtb vs Emtb controversy from continental europe where riding emtb for the past 5 years I have not had a single negative comment about emtbs. But you should have seen the faces of young kids on bikes when you first turned up on your emtb and they saw one for the first time 😊
You are absolutely right.I've noticed that when I'm riding uphill and say hi to people, they are much less friendly when I'm on my e-bike compared to my regular Ibis bike. I think there's a misconception that a Class 1 e-bike is the same as an e-motorcycle like the Sur-Ron. I understand the annoyance if someone were riding a Sur-Ron on a mountain bike trail. Other mountain bikers often don't understand how pedal-assisted e-bikes work because they've never ridden one. I think we need to help them understand how awesome e-biles are.
Many ebikers are think ebikes should be fully accepted and they develop unassailable justifications for feeling that way, while at the same time being annoyed at the idea of a Sur-Ron on a trail. It seems to me that those people would understand that they are the same as people who don't want to see ebikes, just with lines drawn in different places in the sand.
I know how it feels and I’m sorry that you had to go through that. My wife and I also got cuss out just for riding and ebike! It’s hurt, but we both look the other way smile and pedals on !
I would welcome more videos like this ❤. I had a bad crash which destroyed my ankle and foot. Doctors wanted to amputate my foot, but I wouldn’t let them. I couldn’t walk for 18 months. After multiple surgeries and a new 3D computer printed ankle, I began walking and riding again. My recovery was a deep jog into the back of the pain cave. Doctors said I’d never be able to ride a mountain bike again. I tried riding a pedal bike, but it hurt bad. I was ready to give up when I decided to try an eBike. My eBike literally saved my life. I rode 2,900 miles last year on my eBike. It hurts when I hear the snide comments made by the pedaling crowd when I ride. I’m just doing the best I can, ya know? People in America have forgotten how to stay in their lane and mind their own business.
Don't forget 1 thing: majority of the people talking shit in a parking lot to ebikers have either a) never ridden one or are b) too proud to do so. If you've been on a semi-decent E-MTB and suitable terrain to your ability, you can't tell me you weren't having fun when you enjoy acoustic bikes in the first place.
Nah ive ridden ebikes and I dont like it they are heavy and sluggish. And I know emtb people dont want to hear it but it is the lazy option. Yea you might be able to be out longer and its still exersice but you lie to yourself if you say its better than mtb in that regard. If you just go out for fun and dont mind the sluggish heavy behaviour when going downhill then go for it.
@@paul4292 Nobody is arguing the point of an acoustic bike being more strenuous - it's in the nature of the product. But an ebike will guaranteed make you a better rider downhill just because you can smash laps - one after another. I can usually do 3-4runs downhill in the same time I'm out compared to 1 on my normal mtb and still do the 2nd half of my 8-10hr workday. Sure you're 10-20secs slower on a 10min downhill but you're up the hill in 15min instead of an hour.
@@paul4292I rode almost 20 years downhill here in Switzerland and my first DH bikes where way heavier then my 2022 Ebike. I‘d say, the question is not what you ride, but how you ride it. As we all know, pro DH teams often put extra weight bellow the bottom bracket as they say it feels way more stable on fast/rough parts of the track.
@@Phonophobia and i hope those same users who are now "smash laps one after another" realize the additional wear they are putting on trails and volunteer or donate accordingly. As a trail builder i know ebikes dont damage trails anymore than non-ebikes, it really comes down to the number of users. If you knock out 3-4 laps instead of 1, its no different than 3-4 additional riders on the trail.
You make some good points and I agree - Here in NM there are a lot of trails that do not allow eBikes like all of our foothills which are some really good trails especially during the winter. A lot a of people are quick to the let eBikes know there not allowed and over time it builds resentment towards that community- I’m not sure what the answer is and personally as long as everyone is being polite I don’t care. On the other hand, constantly seeing people riding eBikes that are clearly marked just adds fuel to the community’s division - again, not sure what the answer is
Yeah that is a tough one and could be chalked up to growing pains? Bureaucracy lagging behind trends? Not sure, but could definitely understand and see how that's frustrating for sure!
Assuming this happened in Bend. We have such a weird pedal culture here. A bunch of older riders that want to climb the trails that are best to descend on, look down on e bikes, and keep our trails flat/rolling even though we have the elevation drop for way more fun trails. I can’t wait for the official “changing of the guard.” BTW Every time I ride clinne butte I get so jealous of e bikes.
I think the problem with bend is COTA. They are anti e-bike. I really believe with their stewardship, they can work with the forest service to make a chang
Well said Drew and really appreciate you bringing this topic up in such a thoughtful way. It's not about the steed of choice one chooses but how you carry yourself out there on the trail!
Well said and true. Mountain biking is for all, whether you choose electrified or not. Dirt bikes, ice or electric (Surron), should not be ridden on mountain bike trails.
So you want your motored bike to be accepted, but you reject other motored bikes on "mountain bike trails". You've drawn the lawn just far enough to include yourself, but close enough to exclude others.
@@jimwing.2178 I don't ride an e-bike. And yes, dirt bikes (gas or electric) should not be ridden on trails made for hikers and cyclists. Never seen a gas dirtbike on trail because they know better. Wish the same could be said for the e-dirtbike riders.
I've lived in Bentonville for several years and have seen the trails go from zero ebikes to now more ebikes than regular bikes. I don't know why, but I still get irritated when I see them. I hate that I am that way, but I'm working through it. Bottom line, they allow people to have fun and be outside
I’m with you. I train on the road all week so I can be strong on the trail and it bothers me that someone on an ebike can keep up with me with no training. I don’t say anything rude I’m not like that but it feels like they are cheating. I’m 56 and work hard to stay in top riding shape. In the end ebikes get more people on bikes and that’s good for everyone
I ride Amish and electric bikes. I'm an evangelist for both and try to convince anyone to ride either. My motto is 'have fun' ride what you want to ride. Spent 10 full days riding in Florida this month and everyone on that trails was having a blast. Alafia was nuts with the new jump line opening up. I saw every type of rider hitting the jumps. Some were boosting and doing tricks while others were rolling the jumps. Stoke all around!!
Awesome to hear! I'm sure that certain regions are more likely to have the "Cool guy vibe" more than others. But, rad to hear this and Florida is creeping on our list of places to ride. Crazy as it sounds. haha.
Way to remind us all to be better human beings to each other Drew. As someone who’s been mountain biking since the 90s it’s been admittedly hard to accept the idea of adding a motor. But I’m working on it 🙂. Also the online eMTB interactions you described remind me a lot about the hating I see every day on MTB groups directed at roadies. It’s so weird… so many of us do both and the roadie-mocking comes off as smug and insecure. Hopefully we can all learn to chill out a little bit and just enjoy the ride and each other.
I think that if you go back to the start of Mountain biking, people were not happy about bikes on trails. Bikes were seen as cheating your way through the woods. People wanted the trails strictly for hikers and horses. Hopefully, Ebike acceptance will increase with time. Of course, part of this is going to depend on Ebikers being considerate of others on the trails.
Totally agree with this comment . And your last comment Drew about more people getting out there and doing it . Give it a year or so and the fuss will have died down . MTBers are good people as you say
I've never had any anti-Ebike issues on the trail or at the trailhead. I ride both Ebikes and normal MTBs, and do the maintenance on my local trails. I have found that most of the negativity is online where the "keyboard warrior" mentality can set in. There's a lot of ill-informed negativity that needs to be stamped out with facts at times. It does seem to be more prevalent in places where there are "no Ebike" trails, that the worst treatment comes from non-Ebike riders. Here in Australia, most are pretty laid back about Ebikes and there's very few areas that separate MTB from EMTB and I think that makes a difference. My comeback to the "Ebikes are cheating" comment is that sole purpose of a bicycle is to give a mechanical advantage to go further and faster than you could on foot. If I get the comment about cheating, I call them out for the same, and state that they need to take up running bare foot if they want a "pure" sport. 🤣
Great video. Keep up the awesome work. That’s a reason that I ride to be free from the daily competition of the surf lineup that changes daily that I deal with, we often have our apex pecking order, when on the bike it dosent exist. Kind of like snowboarding, the bike is freedom compared to the surf sometimes but the surf can offer freedom from competition in the lineup sometimes if it’s uncrowded. My friends I’ve surfed with since 1990 are some great mountain bikers for their age at 81, 78, 76, etc and they are on regular Mtb and I’m on the fuel exe like you see in my recent video (just out for the scenery in that.. we ride great terrain usually). I like being teased by them and anyone. It’s like someone teasing me because I don’t drink. They should try to hang with my dead step father alcoholic that drank vodka like water all day. I don’t have to be the best on the mountain or in the surf, I’ll leave it up to Jesus.
A lot of the guys in my local mtb group ride e-bikes, and I've even outclimbed some of them on my acoustic bike. 😄 I'm still adjusting to the idea of motorized bikes, having grown up as a mountain biker in the 90's, but I think it's very cool to see more people getting into the sport who might not otherwise. Hoping to get one for my wife eventually so she can join me on some easier rides. 🤙
I got into mountain biking at the age of 39 (43 now), started on a regular bike. Fell in love with it, and connected with a like-minded group of riders. Over time, they all switched to e-bikes and I was the last holdout. Until recently. And I still love mountain biking. I feel bad when I pedal past the dude huffing and puffing on the climb, to the point where I've apologized haha. But the mentality is clearly evolving. Half the time, the person on the analog bike laughs and says they have an eMTB at home too. I still get the occasional "moped-esque" comment when I post a pic of my eMTB. But for the most part, folks are down with it all. Seems the tide is changing, and hopefully we can all continue to have fun on the trails. Share a beer in the parking lot (or a soda, for you Drew), and talk about how much fun we just all had. You even changed my mind on it, when you and I chatted about how it helps you get your loop in, in a good amount of time, to get home and get back to your family. I rip off my hour-long loop mid-day, and get home in plenty of time to get back to work or whatever the day entails.
I'm a two wheeled enthusiast myself. I recently had a knee replacement though I'm still relatively young (@52) and look healthy. If I wanted to be able to walk after a ride I had to use my EMTB as the stress on the joint would aggravate it too much. I've had a handful or more of negative interactions with people on the trail but none quite as crazy a guy screaming at me for a good five minutes to get off the trail and go home. This for a good 3-4 minutes after I pedaled away from him. I sold my MTB and now only ride EMTB - more miles more smiles; unless I run across another jerk like that. Ruins not only the rest of my ride but my day. I always try to give every other rider the right-of-way, even if I should have it on a climb. Don't want to give them any excuses for a rant 🔊📢
I loved all bikes period. I grew up BMX, Freestyle back in the 80’s. I get those looks/comments when I ride my eMtb not often but there are those that just want to argue for the sake of argue. I’m 53 yrs young, I started riding mtb when it was rigid steel frame, no suspensions etc. + we road hiking trail and jeep roads, no bike trail specific and I watch and enjoyed how bikes evolved. So yeah, I ride a eMtb, I paid my dues, so I don’t need to pay attention to your views. Keep riding enjoy life I say!
Yep, I consider I've more than 'earned my descent' over the past 30+ years pedalling (and pushing!) old-school DH bikes up hill... time to sit down and let the motor take some of that strain now ;o)
I'm with you man. There are assholes and rude people everywhere unfortunately, even in mountain biking. I've been feeling this way recently about a number of other toxic interactions I've witnessed/been a part of, that's really left a bitter taste in my mouth. I think the key takeaway is don't listen to the hate and keep spreading the stoke.
Riding an E-bike circumvents a huge opportunity for personal growth and self knowledge. True mountain bikers embrace obstacles, because obstacles are teachers, and the process of overcoming these obstacles usually requires consistent practice and determination. One obstacle to mountain bikers for example are… mountains, hills… unless you have some kind of disability, when you ride an e-bike, it says you were unwilling to face your own physical and mental weaknesses, and dedicate yourself to overcoming the challenge of riding up hill. And in the process you could have become stronger, healthier and more mentally resilient. But instead you just plugged in a cheat code spent a few grand and got a motor. Anyone can do that.
Appreciate your opinion! Here’s my thought on that… What’s interesting is that so many people have this sentiment. As someone who has spent decades riding, training for mega events like the BC Bike Race (2x) and other endurance races, I know and love those very challenges and mental battles while building strength!! However, i find it odd that ebike riders, like myself, get quickly written off as “not being able to hack it or wanting a cheat code” and not earning it, despite having done that exclusively for decades and still do! Most people who’ve shared stories say their ebike is one of 2, 3 or 4 bikes and they only use it certain days or rides. So, when folks see an ebike rider, they write off their life’s work of what they do and have done and criticize based on what they see them in that particular day… it would be like someone seeing Aaron Gwin (not knowing who he is) on a road bike training and them saying, “You should get on a mountain bike and challenge yourself instead of just working on fitness on a road bike” haha. If that analogy Makes any sense?? Haha.
@@TheLoamWolf yes totally makes sense. Unfortunately I guess it’s human nature to pass judgment before knowing a person’s history and situation in life. That’s wrong too. Personally, I wouldn’t be rude to an e-biker. Like you, I’ve also ridden motorcycles, dirt bikes, and I have a road bike and multiple mountain bikes. I might even get an e-bike to commute on. I just think it’s it’s own thing somewhere on the spectrum between a mountain-bike and a motorcycle. There are lots of vehicles on that spectrum, but they’re not mountain bikes and if the only bike you ride is an e-bike, I don’t think you’re a mountain biker and maybe not even a cyclist. That’s not to throw hate at e-bikers, I just think there should be definitions of terms and activities. For example I shoot archery for fun. I use a compound bow. It’s not a traditional bow. And it’s not a crossbow. And I’m sorry, but if you shoot a crossbow, you’re not an archer. It’s similar, but it’s not the same thing. There’s no book called zen and the art of crossbows. It’s Zen and the art of archery. Likewise, it’s very simple to draw a distinction between bicycles and other machines: bicycles don’t have a motor.
Man I think TH-cam is making this a bigger deal than what it is in reality. Most people don’t care what you ride. Those that really do are far and few. The root of the problem is courtesy. If I’m on a bike struggling, don’t get on my rear on an ebike telling me to move in a rude manner. That’s my beef with ebikers. It’s about 50% of them in my experience actually this way. Do I care if it’s an ebike? Nope! But many of them forget what it’s like riding a normal bike and treat the analog bikers as peasants in the way. I don’t care if they ride twice as long, and all the other blah blah bs they say… enjoy whatever bike you overpay for and be courteous to others
How you felt that day driving away from the parking lot is how I feel sometimes. I mostly ride fat bikes and I always get the comments like, expecting snow, bet that THING is heavy or just a shake of the head. When I try to make a joke back to them they think I’m being defensive. As a whole I think we are a bunch of like minded people just trying to have fun our own way!
Well said. "Don't be a dick" will be my next response when I get the "look" or comment I'm on my e bike. MTB ~20 years, also I ride both and love each for different reasons. Can't we just get along & shred like the old days? ;)
I loved mountain biking as a young man in the late 90s, early 2000's. I moved to another place that didn't have any good mountain biking close so I stopped riding. In 2021 I got back into mountain biking because a friend let me take 1 ride on his ebike. I now have an ebike and regular mountain bike and love to ride both of them. I probably would have never got back into it if it wasn't for ebikes! I wish some people could understand that. I have a fun group of friends I ride with, and it's made my life better in many ways.
Well said Drew! There are always small minded people in most walks of life! Certainly in the UK I think we are still quite a welcoming community to all who want to participate at any level! Keep up the good work with the channel.... 👊
I quit surfing decades ago because I was turned off by crowds and localism. I am 52 and not nearly in the same shape that I was at 20. My technical skills are there.... Stamina not as much. I no longer weigh 155lbs. I weigh 240. Climbing anything steep or long would push me anaerobic and into the "no fun zone". Even when I would ride consistently I would only lose 10 pounds or so. My ebike has completely revamped the fun and adventure that I would get on my bike in my younger years. Biking is FUN again! As a result I am riding more miles and getting more smiles than I have in decades!
Confession here, I too have cracked on young guys heading up a paved climb on e-bikes to do another shuttle run. At 65 and not in the shape I was even 5yrs. ago and having way too many bikes already, if there is a "next" bike it will probably be an e-bike, and the wife gets one first! As far as people are concerned, we are all flawed and need a Savior. Thanks Loam Wolf.
I don't really care if you ride an ebike or not, but here is what I notice. The people who constantly complain about riding ebikes, all ride ebikes. The people who are tired of listening to other people complain about ebikes, don't ride ebikes.
I have an eMTB and a Hightower. The eMTB has opened up the mountains I ride near me to the point where I would never have discovered trails I absolutely love. Haters guna hate… no matter what they ride. Keep up the good work.
You make several good points including "just being outside and enjoying the great outdoors" as many people don't appreciate all that we get out of riding. Another good point is that "there are a$$holes in every walk of life" and if they try to take your joy, its up to you to grow a thicker skin and ignore them (easy to say, not so easy to do!) as they are not going to change. My only counter point is that I do see too many new a$$hole emtb owner where I ride, who don't know about trail etiquette, as they go blasting by regular bike riders and hikers on all access and climbing trails. I love my emtb and have many younger friends who ride regular bikes and we all get along just fine. Education, respect and tolerance is solution.
It's crazy to me to hear that so many people are saying those things about your ebikes. Around here, maybe it's just because there are so many of them, I've never once heard a bad comment, if I get any comments it's about what a cool bike my Oso and Wild are.
I remember in the early 1980s how many negative attitudes hikers had towards us mountain bikers,same with snowboarders and skiers.most don't like change in our ever evolving sports!but eventually learn to co-exist and except. I live by sandy ridge bike trail and ebike it 3 or 4 days a week . Been noticing bikers being more acceptable over time I feel it is more of a ego issue for non ebikers and don't blame them. I reply with friendly attitude and offer assistance when necessary!
Be good and respect all (nature included!). Who gives a shit, if people don't go along with "you", "ebikers", "what ever"... For ex: I salut everyone, but I don't aspect the unknow guy/girl from the parking lot retributes it back... I wish... but couldn't care less PS: And I salut EVERYONE! It's part of our nature to interact
Out where I live in Western Colorado most of the trails have banned e-bikes. Iv brought up to some friends I want an Ebike and have been immediately ridiculed for it. There’s definitely a very snobby attitude towards them out here. :(
Drew: I think you hit the nail on the head there when talking about it's not what people are doing, it's about the people themselves. Some, regardless of endeavor, are inclined to "put down" others in an effort to boost their own self esteem/worth. To me, its a juvenile self-serving power play that reveals their true character. Unfortunate, but it reminds me of the wisdom "Comparison is the thief of joy". 🙂
Best vent ever. I have both MTB & EMTB. For years I held off getting an e-version because of the potential strange looks and comments. They do happen. But honestly if you want to ride to have fun, get an e-bike. I still ride both and enjoy them both. Do the hard climbing in eco mode if you want to work the heart rate. The haters will get an e-bike eventually. Everyone ages. If they want to keep riding longer, they’ll get one.
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I can honestly say I have been “that guy” in the parking lot watching a group of Ebikers come in. For reasons unknown to me, I simply thought they were lazy and would often tear up the trails. Pair that perception with my ongoing attempt to get my wife into mtbing. No matter how easy I thought the trail or short the distance was, she never had a good time, until she rode an ebike. She doesn’t want to ride 4-5 days a week like I do nor does she feel inclined to redo challenging climbs. The ebike for her (and for many) is a way to enjoy the trails without feeling overly frustrated when it comes to climbs. I am stoked on e-bikes now as it allows me to enjoy bikes with my wife!
This is awesome Spencer! So rad of you to share your story and share the perspective of someone who's been on both sides. And congrats on getting your wife on the trails, so cool.
This is 100% why I bought an e-bike, and now I ride it more than she does. Ha.
bring your single lady friends on the trails please. Just don't zoom by laughing at the struggling and say hi
That's so cool. I met a guy in his 70s recently and I saw he had a dirt bike in his garage and he told me he had to stop riding it due to weight but switched to E-biking on the same trails. I thought, awesome whatever keeps you out there doing things in nature.
Thanks for sharing your story too. We don't know why people are doing what they do until we talk to them, but they often have compelling reasons.
… somehow survived an Aortic Dissection/ best part of 5 years to recover (somewhat) …without an ebike I’m stuffed (literally) but am out there riding heaps again + loving it. t back country was always my “thing”, now I’m back
I've also experienced some elitism when I first started mountain biking. I remember the first time showing up to the trail head with my cheapo "mountain bike" I got from the department store, skateboarding helmet and running shorts on. Got some snarky "You gonna ride on that?" remarks from people. Thank goodness mountain biking is so fun! Whenever I see people on cheapo bikes or wearing hockey pads I give them a compliment. I also used to be like them.
Absolutely and that's great to hear!! We always go out of our way to find newer riders or ones on bikes and gear like yours and welcome them! We're so much more stoked to see those people on the trails than another dude kitted out head to toe with a flashy carbon race rig.
Wait, I'm not the only one that wants to wear my hockey gear when I'm mountain biking? 😂
A rider of 30 years and yep that’s who I talk to the most, they’ve got new energy and excitement that we all had at the beginning which is cool
Funny you say that, i have a mate in his early 40s with a £500 pounds vitus hardtail needs brake pads and shock servicing he wears a cheap helmet and tracksuit pants, and nobody on a 10k bike can touch him. Its him that looks down at them and me 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
YES!!!
Thanks Drew for your comments. I have had mountain bikes since 1984. I experienced a similar situation when rock climbing as sport climbing was just beginning. Now Sport Climbing is generally accepted except for a few climbing areas.
I have friends that ride EMTBs and they are 78 and 76 respectively. I bought a EMTB when I broke my leg riding a regular bike at Sandy Ridge in 2020. I was able to ride my EMTB to recover. I could not have recovered as quickly without my EMTB and I still have hardware in my leg.
II am 66 and I switch between riding EMTBs with my wife who is 65. and my friends who are 10 years older, and with riding my analog MTBs. I enjoy both types of bikes equally. I find riding is riding. It is not cheating as I find I get more exercise on my EMTB as I am out longer.
Please continue to fight the cause that E-bikes are not a crime.
Thank you for sharing Chris and glad to hear you are still ripping!!
Most of the eMTB hate comes from those who have never ridden one. If they did, they'd realize they still get the cardio benefit and they are so much fun.
It's funny, I never thought if mtb and emtb like sport and trad climbing, but you are absolutely right.
Very well said Drew, it's the reason I call everyone riders! It should not be important what bike you're riding, or how you're riding it. The most important thing should be getting out there and having fun with your mates!
I was like that at first, but have really changed my mind. I have a friend who used to be an amazing rider but has been stricken with a disease that just doesn't allow him to expend the energy needed, and one day when talking with him he expressed that it might be a great way to get back into it. I started thinking about how one day this may extend my ablility to ride to a riper older age and that this was something that previously wasn't available. This is an opportunity for those that no longer can or never could enjoy such a fantastic sport or lifestyle.
Thanks for posting this. This has been my ONLY issue with owning an e-bike. At 50, it's gotten me WAY more miles than my regular mtb...but the looks of disgust and snarky comments out on the trail are the biggest drawback...ALL I'm trying to do is have fun and be out in nature but now you make me feel bad about myself. The "locals only" vibe is alive and thriving unfortunately.
Totally agree with you. I ride both and just don’t get why people are so against eMTBs. When my wife rides with me, she uses my e-bike and I ride on a regular MTB so she can keep up. It’s all riding a bike and having fun on the mountain. Totally agree with you 👍
Thanks Jared! Glad to hear you and your wife are riding and having fun.
because ebikes are knob *enablers*. It allows ppl that don't have the fitness or skill(usually both) to be on the trails, thus endagering us and themselves.
If you want to be a mountain biker.. you need to grow organically, not leapfrogging everything just because you have a motor between your pedals. It is bad for you, as a rider, it is bad for the others you might meet on the trail, it is bad for the sport... which, actually, is a different one all together.
as for who's who.. it is simple... if you want to be a mountain biker, you need to ride the mountains on your bike. Ebikes are not mountain bikes..well, partially they are but, most ppl I know use them for everything.. commuting to work, going to have some beers with the guys, riding casually in the city(joy ride with wife, gf, etc).. so, the moped term is actually more appropriate.
I have rode ebikes in the past and for sure I will ride other ebikes in the future.. but, I consider myself a mountain biker because I ride real bikes all over the mountains, on my own strength, using my acumulated skill. Ebikes don't offer that. It is that easy and I don't understand why ppl complicate the subject so much.
I'm against ebikes because ebikers poach trails, destroy trails, and are generally riding way too aggresively for the multi-use trails that make up 95% of our trails. Hikers and dog walkers don't like people on MTB going by them at 5-10mph and constantly complain about us, and now they have to deal with peopel going by them at 15-20mph.
ebikers are generally newcomers, yes, but they also don't believe the rules and respect of the trails apply to them at all. because they spent $7K on a bike.
@@eugenux same. my exp with ebikers over the past few years has been overwhelmingly negative. they act like entitled jerks and then get butthurt if you disapprove of their blatant disrespect of others and the trails. most are new comers who don't have the fitness, skills, or knowledge, and have zero interest in learning any of it. there have always been trail poachers and bad actors, but the majority of it that i see now is always people on ebikes who are older and just have that "i'm old and lazy, so i will do what i want and i don't care about anyone else' attitude.
come on stop the generalizations. I've riden for 30 + years. wife got me a trek exe last year. Its great e bike but more important it's a great bike. I still ride my analog but have to admit the trek puts a smile on my face. also I'm almost 70 and have no intention of giving up either bike.@@manaknight333
I came to moutain biking about 2.5 years ago after lung cancer took most of my right lung and paralyzed my right diaphragm. I run about 40% of normal lung function and pretty much exclusively ride an emtb. Emtbing has been a complete life saver, life changer for me allowing me to be an athlete again while also helping me rehabilitate my body to get as strong as it can after 4 thoracic surgeries in 18 months. There is really no other mountain sports that I can participate in now. Prior to lung cancer I was a big time rock climber having put up first ascents in the Cascades of Wa state, and was sponsored by some companies for a time. Ive been quite obsessed with riding my emtb clocking 300k of ascent/descent my first year and 430k my second and have progressed to seeking out the hardest dbld blacks I can find in the WA state.
I struggle pretty hard with the culture and community of mountain biking, though it is getting better. The difference between pulling up in a parking lot full of climbers and full of bikers is pretty drastic and quite disheartening. Climbers just tend to be friendly and chatty, dont judge, and its just normal for climbers to chat it up when gearing up in a parking lot. Not so with bikers.. Just pretty cold and quiet in general. It seems like there is quiet a bit of ego with moutainbiking and with that insecurities and judgement. The ebike hates gotten alot better but its still there. A few years ago it was so bad I considered putting handicap stickers on my bike or clothes or helmet (I have a permanent disability parkiing placard) to quite getting yelled at out on the trails or maddogged in the parking lots (my disability is pretty hidden). I dont feel that way anymore and i've had some really great random encounters with other riders lately up here in WA state. I think its better here than most places and I've noticed alot of the real shredders finally adding an emtb into their quiver in the last year. I'm cautiously optomistic for the future.
Thanks for sharing that story and we're glad you're still here and shredding some major miles! Sorry to hear you've had some pretty bad experiences. We're not all dicks.
Proud ebiker! Been mountain biking longer than most kids been alive.
Well, being 47 (old af) , and our boy being 3 years, me and wifey have maybe 1-2 hours of me-time every other day.
Emtb = 2-3 times the ammount I could do on my regular mtb.
And it also makes the uphill and flats waaay more fun 😁
I loved what Jeremy Hyatt (over the Fire Mtn Trails in NC) said when asked. “We have carte blanche to make our own rules. One of those rules is that we allow ebikes. We have had zero issues with anything (out on the trails). Anyone who discredited an ebike has never ridden one. That’s the bottom line,” I don't normally ride an ebike, but I have no issue with those who do. Funny thing, I have ridden dirt bikes for 40 years and not nearly as much hate for those.
I understand your experience and recently deactivated my Facebook account. I grew tired of reading people nagging at each other for every little thing. I love riding my bike and I am frustrated that anything and everything has to be divisive. Nuanced opinions matter but having fun matters more. I stopped riding with some people because of their attitude and I told myself I won't be that guy and try to be supportive of others. Marketing in the bike industry also plays a role in this, creating fads and creating a culture of constant technological improvement (or not) until they convince you to change your ways. I got into it to be outside riding, not arguing with strangers. I hope you will keep making positive content as I enjoy watching it, and please, do not let yourself be beaten down by the loud Minority. Filtering the noise is key these days. Have a safe one.
Don't worry man, the negative people, are still a small minority....most people are just like you, happy to be out mtb, happy to see others out, etc...keep doing what you do...its awesome
🤙
Thank you for taking the time to post this. I have been an avid mountain biker since 1986 and added an e-bike in 2021. It added a whole new layer of fun and technical challenges. I can honestly say I am probably riding twice as often since then. Unfortunately, I can also say it brought to my attention those riders’ attitudes you mention. Hoping most will grow up someday, but in the meantime I try not to let it bum me out too much.
I am pretty much the same. The amount of hate online is crazy. I am also why the forest service and BLM are so out of touch. I think allot is about advocacy. Many bike organizations like COTA in Bend are anti ebike. Sad
I'm an acoustic rider but promis you, there have been some climbs that I wished for an ebike! Whatever bike gets you out on the trail, it's awesome and if you can get in a few extra laps because you have an ebike even better😊
Man I’ve been alive long enough to know there are tools in every group. Some people just need something to be angry about. I’ve had the little sneer remarks when I’m on my emtb and I just reply with a fun, light-hearted remark so they know it didn’t get the better of me. Responding with joy takes their ammo away and their sour behavior just falls back on them. Keep shredding bro! 🤙🏼
Drew, your analogy is perfect! I grew up surfing and “paddle boards “ were considered the worst to short boarders. Now paddle boards have broadened water board sport access to people and places never imagined. Without e-bikes, my wife wouldn’t be able to ride with me and not puke! I will ride e-bikes one day but the big $ goes to the wife’s bike for now! I’ve been re-wording my e-bike support and stating that the e-bike hater is against women, elderly and handicap access to the outdoors….. usually shuts em up especially in today’s political climate. Just gotta keep helping IMBA to get forest access legal ! Then access is huge!
As a dirtbiker i was about to give up mtb riding until I found emtb's. The emtb world completely changed my life and filled the gap between mtb and dirtbiking. As a dirtbiker the eMTb checks so many boxes. I eMTb's ride in Austin and NWA. Love both areas but NWA is my preference due to the entire vib of the NWA area and volume of trails.
Heck yes that's awesome to hear.
I love NWA, Ice Cube is probably my favorite member.
I have been riding in Ireland since 2019 I got an Ebike in 2022 and I never encounterd anything else than genuinly nice people, have a simple greeting a chat or a laugh with them when they call me a cheater (For F's sake it's only a bit of banter) I just enjoy the part where we all are out having a good time, enjoying our passion and the community. Happy trails to all of you no matter what your ride is 😁
Yeah, it's mostly like that in the USA, as well. Some people are too sensitive.
E-bikes have changed my local trails for me. Trails that I stopped doing because the climb was so hard I couldn’t enjoy the downhill because of being tired. Also being able to session downhills multiple times made so many places a bike park. It made riding so much fun again! I can ride with really fast analog riders I could never keep up with before. This is an example just like so many other issues in this world where people need to stop judging others “different decisions” and worry more about who they are being in the world.
After reading a lot of the comments, I have 2 more thoughts:
1. I was so thankful having a an e-bike after I got c0v1d. I literally thought I would die on the climb I did every day on my normal bike. Took 2x the time and instead of the steady 160, I was in the 180-190 range and had to stop 4-5 times where I just pedaled up before getting it.
The e-bike helped me get back in shape, and also not just rot in the lockdown when recovering (also lucky to have a trail 200m from my house ... so once I was back in shape I would do a normal bike lap, get home, get the e-bike and do laps for hours ...)
2. I would love to see my old "ride 4ever" BMX friends on the trails. I would not care if they were riding an ATV, an e-bike, a dirt bike, a pogo-stick or literally a MOPED.
Any of those would be better than sitting home, drinking beer, watching the game and working on their 1st/2nd/3rd stroke or heart attack with 50+ kilos to lose.
As I said, eMTB is not the same workout as a bike ride, but if I could just get those guys back on anything that's not a couch, would make me really happy.
And yes, do enough laps and play with the assist and it CAN BE a very good and intense workout as well.
With that ... I also have to say that I have respect for anyone who takes the time to get out of their house and into the forest, or dirt road, or road, or where ever they choose to do some activity. Getting up at 5 and going to the gym, or getting up early and squeeze in a ride before work DOES take an effort. ....
Talking of which .... have to gear up and squeeze in that before-work ride .... acoustic suffer Friday, as Saturday/Sunday it is e-bike laps at the park ...
Thanks for sharing!! Good luck getting your crew back out! Maybe just go to a shop and rent one or two e-bikes for a day and tell them to grab a helmet you’re picking em up! Never know, forcing them out for that first ride could be all it takes to save a life!
Im in the same boat. Ive seen the looks and heard the comments from the bro crowd. I got an bike because im 50 i started riding again 4 years ago! I wasnt the most healthy before then. I found mountain biking and it saved my life! I changed how i ate quit smoking focused on my health and was much happier! That being said it made me crazy that i only had one loop in a day. I was exhausted by the time i got to the top. I couldnt progress any further than where i was no matter how hard i tried. I was ready to give up. Then a buddy let me borrow his ebike for the day. I fell in love with this all over again. That day i rode 17 miles like it was nothing! Till then my longest ride was 12 miles and i thought i was going to die. Now im able to ride with my friends who have been riding for 20+ years and do a 25 mile day! Turns out i have asthma and severe damage to my lungs from smoking for 20 years! I cant help that i cant pedal like you guys that weigh far less than me (230lbs i was 265!!) and never smoked never did terrible things to your body partying and generally living a touring punk rock band lifestyle!
Ive done too much damage to be as fit and capable as you! BUT… im out there riding loving every moment i have doing this! Im no longer angry unhealthy unhappy drunk on drugs or any of that! This amazing thing has saved my life! I out there doing it! For the same reason you are.. BECAUSE I LOVE IT! Theres no reason you need to hate on me or anyone else riding an ebike! We are the same people! Out there riding and loving it! At least im not on the damn couch watching tv for a lifestyle!
This does not belong to you! Its all of ours! I feel incredibly lucky that i can do it! Be the cool welcoming people you were before. It doesnt matter what i ride or why i ride. Im out there just like you are
Awesome! Thank you for sharing.
I found it so regional as well. I get way more flack in certain areas of Utah. We just came back from Phoenix and we had a great interactions bikers and other bikers and people even asking what kind of bikes are we on! I think it all comes down to people’s misunderstanding and their own issues with their egos.
Life is short, enjoy the ride!
Word. In my case, sometimes my knee doesn't allow me to ride my MTB. On trails that allow it, I'll then ride my eMTB. You're correct, it's about getting out and riding. It really doesn't matter what you ride as long as the bike is legal, you enjoy it, and have fun.
Mate the surf analogy is spot on, it's exactly what what I use to explain this behaviour.
Amen! The only MTBr's that I've come across saying shit about eMTB's are insecure or ignorant. I've been riding MTB for over 30 years, since I was a kid growing up in BC, and now still ride as much as I can in LA area. I have 4 MTBs, one is an E, and I ride it the most by far... unless I'm riding with other non-E riders or hitting a lift-operated park. I used to make excuses for riding it, but fuck that, it's so much fun. I can go on rides twice as far, get way more scenery, get higher up the mountain or deeper into the woods, and still burn the same calories as a ride on my MTB.
agreed, who wouldn't use that electric s rewdriver if they had it
One thing I learned during my time playing D1 Soccer is that there are people that just have "bad sportsmanship". It's all about having fun and having a good time.
I don’t get people who think they gain something from bringing others down, what a way to live!😂 Hikers, MTB, Emtb, dirt bikes, we’re all on the trails to get away and have a good time. I’m not going to let it get ruined by a bunch of snobs. Just give them a “have a good one pal” and be on your way 🤙
I got into MTB during the covid days, it's something I did as a kid, grew up racing MX, raced BMX in my 20's, and in a couple month I'll be picking up my first eMTB. Ever since an eMTB rider joined our riding group I've taken the view, whatever helps someone get out to enjoy the activity, the outdoors, get fresh air, etc, the better it is. Be it limit time to ride, physical fitness, physical ability, etc, it doesn't matter, if an eMTB is what it takes to get out on the trails, do it! At 40 years old, I'm not fit, enjoy riding and have no issues getting in a 2 hour ride on my MTB, but I'm limited in what trail networks I can ride either do to how much climbing is involved, or just the time/distance the trails are from home a 2 hour ride doesn't justify the 4+ hour round trip, and this is where the eMTB will come in HUGE!
Awesome to hear this. Welcome back to the dirt and enjoy your new bike!
@@TheLoamWolfI don't know why you guy celebrate lazy mentality?!, I am also a 40 years old.. and of course I get fat-ish and out of shape-ish(because I snowboard) in the winter but when spring comes, so are the trainings.. and I also have a family, I'm not a lone wolf living in the mountains.
3 months of hard training or 4-5 months of decent training gets you in enough shape to do a multi-stage enduro race... and I know because I did it last summer.. so, the age is BS argument.
Ffs, 40 years is not 70 or 80. With decent will power and mind focus you can still get in a very powerfull shape.. anyone can. In fact, it is almost a must if you want to have a proper functional body in your later years.
Turning 54 in a few months….my eMTB is a life changer….im riding at least a few times a week and checking out new spots all over the so cal and lovin being outside. I can ride deep into the hills and stay moving for hours at a time. Makes me feel 15 again…
At first I was subconscious about being the new guy on a Ebike and ruffling feathers with locals…but now I could care less-I’m gettin better and doin it more!!
I don’t ride an e-bike but I have no problem with those who do. I hope to get the opportunity to ride one soon. I agree that we should all be more welcoming to other people who choose to enjoy spending time outside riding bikes. Thanks for putting this out there Drew. Keep doing what you are doing.
Acoustic rider here ✋🏼
Douchebags gonna douche. I race XC so an e-bike isn’t my jam but ngl, I’m a little jealous on non-workout days of my riding buddies on e-bikes
If someone sneers at you in the parking lot just think about how sad things must be for them if they feel the need to sneer at a fellow rider.
Ride on. 🤘
Well said. I have 4 different types of mtbs. One is a kenevo ebike. I enjoy riding them all for different reasons on different trails on different days. They’re each fun in a unique way. I’ve had some longer rides on the ebike with a lot of elevation that I couldn’t manage on my non powered bikes. My ebike also is a ‘free’ lift at some Dh places and lets me session and get better on some trails as a result
It isn’t MTB vs eMTB that we should focus on here. It is intolerance and straight up bad manners. They exist everywhere and it never goes away with more intolerance and bad manners.
I think the mentality toward eBikes is changing. More and more of us are starting to ride them and most have no choice but to deal with seeing them. Hell on the trail I even make jokes when on my eeB and someone is in front of me on an acoustic by saying things like, cheater coming thru or some other joke. The vibe is getting way better at least here in the Southeast.
But don’t you dare attempt to take it to DuPont or pisgah because the hate runs deep there
Hey man, great video. I moved to e-mtb a couple years back. I am 57, but I don’t want to make it about age or disability. E-mtb has helped me progress so much from the Amish bikes. They also allow me to ride longer in the outdoors (and for more days in a week) where I love to be. I’m not sure where the shaming comes from… certainly don’t get that where I live. Super fit riders just say, yep I’ll do that at some point, but amish biking is my only form or cardio. I get that.
You called it, when you are struggling up every hill and the guy bringing up the rear isn't sweating, that can demoralize the whole group. But when they realize that I have already ridden two laps before they got there and I will be riding another lap when they start the after ride beverage hour........yep never going back. Over 40 now, career and kids.........and with the assistance of Bosch I can now still ride like I am 20, and still have the energy to chase little man, do my husband duties and still be apart of my community it's a win-win. Heck I have almost convinced the local bike shop owner to start ordering and stocking ebikes.....it boils down to one simple thing......LETS RIDE
Hi drew.
Thanks for sharing.
I think what people who dis ebikes don't understand is that most of us don't ride them because we're lazy. We ride them because they let us do double or triple the number of laps in the same time period as on an acoustic bike. And they get you amped to ride even where you're not 100 per cent feeling super energised. So they offer more laps and more riding. What's not to like? And mostly the people who don't like ebikes are people who haven't ridden an ebike yet!
Hey Drew, you're an excellent embassador of Mountainbiking and e-Mountainbiking, please don't let those things affect you. Those haters are just a bunch of frustrated people. Stay strong mate 💪 💪 💪. (ps: what would they say about me with 4 bikes at home, two with a motor and other two without motor, would I be just a 50% cool guy) 😂
Haha. thanks Carlos. i don't even know where we'd sit with like a dozen of each and three motorcycles....
Splitter!😆😉 (in Monty Python voice).
Great video and totally true! Riding should be positive and inviting for all. I want everyone on a bike, having fun, getting healthy and understanding it better. My experience is a little different but same principle. When I was first starting out I was not "sleek" in design, I was more of a clydesdale weightclass and so was my buddy. We were trying to get back into shape and learn. It was crazy to me that both groups (mountain/road) made comments to us. Slamming our gear, bikes, speed and size. It bothered me more than it should have.
Great video and I share your thoughts on this. Be kind, have fun and keep pedaling.
Thanks for the video! Such an important message not just for mountainbikers! People just get shat on for being different or not being part of some thing.
I don't know how many times I heard people say: "It was just a joke. Don't be so touchy." When they actually tried to insult you and try to make you feel bad for reacting to it. Probably, most people who shit on others are just compensating for insecurity or other issues.
There might be no scene, sport or group on the planet that's different than this. So the only solution is be vulnerable, talk about it and gather the real people around you. :)
Well done sir. I used to be 'that' guy back in the late 90's. But, now after going through a number of surgeries I finally got back into it during COVID. I am very slow and I have to be careful on jumps and the like. And I recently got a few 'bro' teenage guys snicker and yell sarcastic cheers at me. And let's just say I let them know what a thought of their behavior. The conversation ended with them apologizing. It consequentially taught me a lesson and I now do my best to be more welcoming - especially guys my age. Cheers!
You nailed it. I ride pedal and e-bikes. Love them both. It’s mountain biking! Cheers and keep up the good work
Thanks, will do!
People have issues with change for one and then there's the jealousy/anger response when you can do laps and clear complex climbs with ease. Plus there are lot of people out there that ride for their own ego/fitness and not so much for 'fun'. Emtbs are fun, period, a lot of fun! Are when people aren't having as much fun as you or don't believe you should be enjoying yourself so much, sadly, they can react negatively. In BC, Canada, I rarely hear negative comments out on the trail with my emtb. So many people own emtbs here and in some instances, you see more emtbs at the trail head than mtbs. From what I've read and heard, these criticisms are heard more in the USofA than other countries around the world where emtbs are more popular and accepted. I still believe in the good nature of the mountain bike community, but with all the trail restrictions, divisiveness and judgement south of the border I can see why there are issues. Land of the free? Not so sure.
Thank you for sharing! Great to hear from our friends to the north.
Your talent on an analog or any bike is amazing and it’s incredible to hear that you would get that kind of reaction when hitting a parking lot. Thank you for validating my ability to get back into biking with the assistance of an E Mtb bike. I have an analog bike also and work it into my routine but the emtb bike helped me this year at age 57 to get back into something I did for 30 years, but let go for 10+ years due to a busy career.
I appreciate that! Thanks and we’re stoked to hear you are back on the bike!
Well said. I think most of us that ride both types of mountain bikes has felt this way.
Agreed. It seems to be so rampant in society to be this way nowadays. It’s really not that hard to just be nice, even if you don’t agree with someone on a particular topic.
Agreed.
It has always and will always be rampant.
@@Lex-Rex this may be true, but I can make the choice not to contribute. I am doing better at being positive as I get older. I’m now 42 and there are just not that many things worth being unkind about. Admittedly it’s taken me too long to get to this point, but I feel if we all try to improve a little bit, it could have a big impact.
@@noahwilson2719You are 100% correct and there is a saying that goes like: „You need to have a strong character to show empathy towards others.“
Damn spitting TRUTH here Drew. Im 54 and have ridden MTB's since 1988. I do feel some of my friends look at emtb's with distain--these guys have never been on one mind you. I just bought my first emtb after I rode about a dozen rides on different models. (Finally bought a Crestline 50/75 a few weeks back which is so good!).
The reality is: I can access trails that are WAY higher up and I can ride my favorite DH trails without killing myself climbing up 3K vertical like I feel when I'm on my analog. This debate is never going to end to be honest. A-holes will be a-holes. I find myself just riding with buddies that want to ride either type of bikes. Love the Loam Wolf content, and I want to personally thank you for helping me make an informed decision ✌
Thank you for sharing and appreciate the kind words. Congrats and enjoy that new bike!
Mountain Bikers have become the Roadies of yesteryear…
Always on Strava looking for PR’s and KOM’s and missing out on the essence of riding which is why I enjoy riding my E so much!
I ride more, explore more, no Strava and smile more.
Drew put it out there and I hope the riders are listening…
As a 65+ year old, I can tell you that our ebikes have been central to keeping us riding. My body is high mileage and I'm getting old enough it is both age and mileage. As much as I like to ride, if ebikes weren't an option, neither my wife or I would be still be riding. We ride for recreation and enjoyment, and a little exercise. The reality is that at our age, and bad knees, etc, neither of us can ride enough to have that be our primary exercise. We've got a 100' elevation change in the first 1/2 mile around our block (it's a 3 mile trip to circle our block), which pretty much eliminates 'fun' from the equation as far as my wife is concerned. At our age, as our doctor as said, it is duration of the activity that is most important, not the intensity. Ebikes make the fun possible where it would other wise not be.
Completely agree man! Doesn’t take much to be friendly and share the stoke. Why be a dick and potentially sour someone’s experience on an mtb. I love riding bikes and if more people are getting into it and helping grow the sport, it’s a win.
I just got an emtb, and at 55 fat and overweight it's been life changing. I can do a 20-30 mile ride on my emtb and have my heart rate in Zone 3 for a good two hours and not be tired when done. On my amish bike if I did 10 miles, I'd spend a good chunk of that up in Zone 4 especially after long hills and have to rest to get it back down. I've been riding in winter when conditions allow and I'd have never done that with my old bike. I've no interest in tearing up trails, it's a Class 1 mid-drive bike with pedal assist only. I'm loving this.
I always enjoy your mtb and your moped content, good presentation, clear tech info - thanks :)
Haha, awesome and we're glad to hear you enjoy it. Thanks for being a fan.
I must admit, I was one of those eMTB haters a couple years back. I even won the “E-Biking is Not A Crime” t-shirt contest on the Loam Wolf instagram with my sassy e-bike dragging submissions. I ended up softening my stance and last year demo’d a Nukeproof (RIP) Megawatt and had a blast. So much fun. I was yeewwwing with delight at the rocket-like ascension. And descending was just as fun as always. Now I wear the “E-Biking is Not A Crime” t-shirt with pride.
Great mindset. At the end of the day, those types of folks are negative & if it wasn’t E-bikes, they’d find something else to complain about. I don’t own an E-bike but I’m confident it will be my next bike purchase. Thanks for sharing, brother! ✌🏼🤟🏼
I have nothing against e-MTB, but there are assholes in every hobby, MTB/E-MTB not immune.
Climbing a trail to have an e-MTB buzz my rear tire instead of ringing a bell or giving me a warning 15sec ahead of time isn't good stewardship. Do that crap and I'll just climb slower, especially since I can probably balance going 1mph better than the e-MTBer can. Ring the bell and say hi and I pull over nicely. Life is a mirror.
Life is a mirror! Love that.
yeah buzzing the tire of a stranger is not a cool move at all! I'd be rather upset as well. Everyone should be courteous and polite, pretty simple to just say hi.
I've found every hobby/sport gets ruined on the internet. But when I'm out doing the things I love those people I meet are 99% awesome people. The comment sections and social will really amplify the negativity, but I'm riding 3x a week during the season and I've found both types of riders are almost always super chill. I don't see myself switching to electric, I like the sufferfest, but I'd love to get one for my gf so she can come out with me. We have to stay united as a community to keep expanding trail access. We've lost so much for dirtbikes we don't want to see the same for mtb.
Good point about negativity be amplified on the internet... I suspect a lot of mountain-bikers (both assisted and non-assisted) spend time online - we're here after all! - and as you say, any negativity can end up get carried with them next time they go for a ride...
Thanks for sharing. It has been interesting observing the mtb vs Emtb controversy from continental europe where riding emtb for the past 5 years I have not had a single negative comment about emtbs. But you should have seen the faces of young kids on bikes when you first turned up on your emtb and they saw one for the first time 😊
You are absolutely right.I've noticed that when I'm riding uphill and say hi to people, they are much less friendly when I'm on my e-bike compared to my regular Ibis bike. I think there's a misconception that a Class 1 e-bike is the same as an e-motorcycle like the Sur-Ron. I understand the annoyance if someone were riding a Sur-Ron on a mountain bike trail. Other mountain bikers often don't understand how pedal-assisted e-bikes work because they've never ridden one. I think we need to help them understand how awesome e-biles are.
Many ebikers are think ebikes should be fully accepted and they develop unassailable justifications for feeling that way, while at the same time being annoyed at the idea of a Sur-Ron on a trail. It seems to me that those people would understand that they are the same as people who don't want to see ebikes, just with lines drawn in different places in the sand.
I know how it feels and I’m sorry that you had to go through that. My wife and I also got cuss out just for riding and ebike! It’s hurt, but we both look the other way smile and pedals on !
Sorry to hear that
I would welcome more videos like this ❤.
I had a bad crash which destroyed my ankle and foot. Doctors wanted to amputate my foot, but I wouldn’t let them.
I couldn’t walk for 18 months. After multiple surgeries and a new 3D computer printed ankle, I began walking and riding again.
My recovery was a deep jog into the back of the pain cave.
Doctors said I’d never be able to ride a mountain bike again. I tried riding a pedal bike, but it hurt bad.
I was ready to give up when I decided to try an eBike. My eBike literally saved my life. I rode 2,900 miles last year on my eBike.
It hurts when I hear the snide comments made by the pedaling crowd when I ride. I’m just doing the best I can, ya know?
People in America have forgotten how to stay in their lane and mind their own business.
Thank you for sharing and respect for the determination to stick it out and get back on the trails!! Keep shredding!
Don't forget 1 thing: majority of the people talking shit in a parking lot to ebikers have either a) never ridden one or are b) too proud to do so. If you've been on a semi-decent E-MTB and suitable terrain to your ability, you can't tell me you weren't having fun when you enjoy acoustic bikes in the first place.
Amen. Good comment. I’ve said the same exact thing for several years now.👍😉
Nah ive ridden ebikes and I dont like it they are heavy and sluggish. And I know emtb people dont want to hear it but it is the lazy option. Yea you might be able to be out longer and its still exersice but you lie to yourself if you say its better than mtb in that regard. If you just go out for fun and dont mind the sluggish heavy behaviour when going downhill then go for it.
@@paul4292 Nobody is arguing the point of an acoustic bike being more strenuous - it's in the nature of the product. But an ebike will guaranteed make you a better rider downhill just because you can smash laps - one after another. I can usually do 3-4runs downhill in the same time I'm out compared to 1 on my normal mtb and still do the 2nd half of my 8-10hr workday. Sure you're 10-20secs slower on a 10min downhill but you're up the hill in 15min instead of an hour.
@@paul4292I rode almost 20 years downhill here in Switzerland and my first DH bikes where way heavier then my 2022 Ebike.
I‘d say, the question is not what you ride, but how you ride it.
As we all know, pro DH teams often put extra weight bellow the bottom bracket as they say it feels way more stable on fast/rough parts of the track.
@@Phonophobia and i hope those same users who are now "smash laps one after another" realize the additional wear they are putting on trails and volunteer or donate accordingly. As a trail builder i know ebikes dont damage trails anymore than non-ebikes, it really comes down to the number of users. If you knock out 3-4 laps instead of 1, its no different than 3-4 additional riders on the trail.
You make some good points and I agree - Here in NM there are a lot of trails that do not allow eBikes like all of our foothills which are some really good trails especially during the winter. A lot a of people are quick to the let eBikes know there not allowed and over time it builds resentment towards that community- I’m not sure what the answer is and personally as long as everyone is being polite I don’t care. On the other hand, constantly seeing people riding eBikes that are clearly marked just adds fuel to the community’s division - again, not sure what the answer is
Yeah that is a tough one and could be chalked up to growing pains? Bureaucracy lagging behind trends? Not sure, but could definitely understand and see how that's frustrating for sure!
I hear what you’re saying , either MTB or e-bike it’s all good
I just enjoying being out breathing fresh air
Assuming this happened in Bend. We have such a weird pedal culture here. A bunch of older riders that want to climb the trails that are best to descend on, look down on e bikes, and keep our trails flat/rolling even though we have the elevation drop for way more fun trails. I can’t wait for the official “changing of the guard.” BTW Every time I ride clinne butte I get so jealous of e bikes.
I think the problem with bend is COTA. They are anti e-bike. I really believe with their stewardship, they can work with the forest service to make a chang
Well said Drew and really appreciate you bringing this topic up in such a thoughtful way. It's not about the steed of choice one chooses but how you carry yourself out there on the trail!
Well said and true. Mountain biking is for all, whether you choose electrified or not. Dirt bikes, ice or electric (Surron), should not be ridden on mountain bike trails.
So you want your motored bike to be accepted, but you reject other motored bikes on "mountain bike trails". You've drawn the lawn just far enough to include yourself, but close enough to exclude others.
@@jimwing.2178 I don't ride an e-bike. And yes, dirt bikes (gas or electric) should not be ridden on trails made for hikers and cyclists. Never seen a gas dirtbike on trail because they know better. Wish the same could be said for the e-dirtbike riders.
@@echobenav8 Your reasoning is arbitrary, as far as I can tell by what you wrote. That's my beef.
I've lived in Bentonville for several years and have seen the trails go from zero ebikes to now more ebikes than regular bikes. I don't know why, but I still get irritated when I see them. I hate that I am that way, but I'm working through it. Bottom line, they allow people to have fun and be outside
I’m with you. I train on the road all week so I can be strong on the trail and it bothers me that someone on an ebike can keep up with me with no training. I don’t say anything rude I’m not like that but it feels like they are cheating. I’m 56 and work hard to stay in top riding shape. In the end ebikes get more people on bikes and that’s good for everyone
I ride Amish and electric bikes. I'm an evangelist for both and try to convince anyone to ride either. My motto is 'have fun' ride what you want to ride. Spent 10 full days riding in Florida this month and everyone on that trails was having a blast. Alafia was nuts with the new jump line opening up. I saw every type of rider hitting the jumps. Some were boosting and doing tricks while others were rolling the jumps. Stoke all around!!
Awesome to hear! I'm sure that certain regions are more likely to have the "Cool guy vibe" more than others. But, rad to hear this and Florida is creeping on our list of places to ride. Crazy as it sounds. haha.
Way to remind us all to be better human beings to each other Drew. As someone who’s been mountain biking since the 90s it’s been admittedly hard to accept the idea of adding a motor. But I’m working on it 🙂. Also the online eMTB interactions you described remind me a lot about the hating I see every day on MTB groups directed at roadies. It’s so weird… so many of us do both and the roadie-mocking comes off as smug and insecure. Hopefully we can all learn to chill out a little bit and just enjoy the ride and each other.
Thanks graham! It doesn't cost anything to be nice!
I think that if you go back to the start of Mountain biking, people were not happy about bikes on trails. Bikes were seen as cheating your way through the woods. People wanted the trails strictly for hikers and horses. Hopefully, Ebike acceptance will increase with time. Of course, part of this is going to depend on Ebikers being considerate of others on the trails.
Totally agree with this comment . And your last comment Drew about more people getting out there and doing it . Give it a year or so and the fuss will have died down . MTBers are good people as you say
Not to mention what some said when the first full suspension riders showed up on the local trails. „Cheaters“ and „snowflakes“ and much worse things.
Are you also hopeful for the acceptance of electric dirt bikes, like Sur-Ron, on hiking and MTB trails?
I've never had any anti-Ebike issues on the trail or at the trailhead. I ride both Ebikes and normal MTBs, and do the maintenance on my local trails. I have found that most of the negativity is online where the "keyboard warrior" mentality can set in. There's a lot of ill-informed negativity that needs to be stamped out with facts at times. It does seem to be more prevalent in places where there are "no Ebike" trails, that the worst treatment comes from non-Ebike riders. Here in Australia, most are pretty laid back about Ebikes and there's very few areas that separate MTB from EMTB and I think that makes a difference. My comeback to the "Ebikes are cheating" comment is that sole purpose of a bicycle is to give a mechanical advantage to go further and faster than you could on foot. If I get the comment about cheating, I call them out for the same, and state that they need to take up running bare foot if they want a "pure" sport. 🤣
Great video. Keep up the awesome work. That’s a reason that I ride to be free from the daily competition of the surf lineup that changes daily that I deal with, we often have our apex pecking order, when on the bike it dosent exist. Kind of like snowboarding, the bike is freedom compared to the surf sometimes but the surf can offer freedom from competition in the lineup sometimes if it’s uncrowded. My friends I’ve surfed with since 1990 are some great mountain bikers for their age at 81, 78, 76, etc and they are on regular Mtb and I’m on the fuel exe like you see in my recent video (just out for the scenery in that.. we ride great terrain usually). I like being teased by them and anyone. It’s like someone teasing me because I don’t drink. They should try to hang with my dead step father alcoholic that drank vodka like water all day. I don’t have to be the best on the mountain or in the surf, I’ll leave it up to Jesus.
A lot of the guys in my local mtb group ride e-bikes, and I've even outclimbed some of them on my acoustic bike. 😄 I'm still adjusting to the idea of motorized bikes, having grown up as a mountain biker in the 90's, but I think it's very cool to see more people getting into the sport who might not otherwise. Hoping to get one for my wife eventually so she can join me on some easier rides. 🤙
If you could beat ebikers (at least the turbo blasters) imagine what you could do in a day on one... That's the selling point right there. lol.
I got into mountain biking at the age of 39 (43 now), started on a regular bike. Fell in love with it, and connected with a like-minded group of riders. Over time, they all switched to e-bikes and I was the last holdout. Until recently. And I still love mountain biking. I feel bad when I pedal past the dude huffing and puffing on the climb, to the point where I've apologized haha. But the mentality is clearly evolving. Half the time, the person on the analog bike laughs and says they have an eMTB at home too.
I still get the occasional "moped-esque" comment when I post a pic of my eMTB. But for the most part, folks are down with it all. Seems the tide is changing, and hopefully we can all continue to have fun on the trails. Share a beer in the parking lot (or a soda, for you Drew), and talk about how much fun we just all had.
You even changed my mind on it, when you and I chatted about how it helps you get your loop in, in a good amount of time, to get home and get back to your family. I rip off my hour-long loop mid-day, and get home in plenty of time to get back to work or whatever the day entails.
Awesome story and thanks for sharing Jeff.
100% Just be good people
Amen!
People hating on E mtb are the same people that hated on the Tri Fin and Snowboarders.
I'm a two wheeled enthusiast myself. I recently had a knee replacement though I'm still relatively young (@52) and look healthy. If I wanted to be able to walk after a ride I had to use my EMTB as the stress on the joint would aggravate it too much. I've had a handful or more of negative interactions with people on the trail but none quite as crazy a guy screaming at me for a good five minutes to get off the trail and go home. This for a good 3-4 minutes after I pedaled away from him. I sold my MTB and now only ride EMTB - more miles more smiles; unless I run across another jerk like that. Ruins not only the rest of my ride but my day. I always try to give every other rider the right-of-way, even if I should have it on a climb. Don't want to give them any excuses for a rant 🔊📢
Very well said, and I appreciate your channel, keep up the positive work. It’s much better to treat your neighbors as you would want to be treated.
I loved all bikes period. I grew up BMX, Freestyle back in the 80’s. I get those looks/comments when I ride my eMtb not often but there are those that just want to argue for the sake of argue. I’m 53 yrs young, I started riding mtb when it was rigid steel frame, no suspensions etc. + we road hiking trail and jeep roads, no bike trail specific and I watch and enjoyed how bikes evolved. So yeah, I ride a eMtb, I paid my dues, so I don’t need to pay attention to your views. Keep riding enjoy life I say!
Yep, I consider I've more than 'earned my descent' over the past 30+ years pedalling (and pushing!) old-school DH bikes up hill... time to sit down and let the motor take some of that strain now ;o)
I'm with you man. There are assholes and rude people everywhere unfortunately, even in mountain biking. I've been feeling this way recently about a number of other toxic interactions I've witnessed/been a part of, that's really left a bitter taste in my mouth. I think the key takeaway is don't listen to the hate and keep spreading the stoke.
Riding an E-bike circumvents a huge opportunity for personal growth and self knowledge. True mountain bikers embrace obstacles, because obstacles are teachers, and the process of overcoming these obstacles usually requires consistent practice and determination. One obstacle to mountain bikers for example are… mountains, hills… unless you have some kind of disability, when you ride an e-bike, it says you were unwilling to face your own physical and mental weaknesses, and dedicate yourself to overcoming the challenge of riding up hill. And in the process you could have become stronger, healthier and more mentally resilient. But instead you just plugged in a cheat code spent a few grand and got a motor. Anyone can do that.
Appreciate your opinion! Here’s my thought on that… What’s interesting is that so many people have this sentiment. As someone who has spent decades riding, training for mega events like the BC Bike Race (2x) and other endurance races, I know and love those very challenges and mental battles while building strength!!
However, i find it odd that ebike riders, like myself, get quickly written off as “not being able to hack it or wanting a cheat code” and not earning it, despite having done that exclusively for decades and still do! Most people who’ve shared stories say their ebike is one of 2, 3 or 4 bikes and they only use it certain days or rides. So, when folks see an ebike rider, they write off their life’s work of what they do and have done and criticize based on what they see them in that particular day… it would be like someone seeing Aaron Gwin (not knowing who he is) on a road bike training and them saying, “You should get on a mountain bike and challenge yourself instead of just working on fitness on a road bike” haha. If that analogy
Makes any sense?? Haha.
@@TheLoamWolf yes totally makes sense. Unfortunately I guess it’s human nature to pass judgment before knowing a person’s history and situation in life. That’s wrong too. Personally, I wouldn’t be rude to an e-biker. Like you, I’ve also ridden motorcycles, dirt bikes, and I have a road bike and multiple mountain bikes. I might even get an e-bike to commute on. I just think it’s it’s own thing somewhere on the spectrum between a mountain-bike and a motorcycle. There are lots of vehicles on that spectrum, but they’re not mountain bikes and if the only bike you ride is an e-bike, I don’t think you’re a mountain biker and maybe not even a cyclist. That’s not to throw hate at e-bikers, I just think there should be definitions of terms and activities.
For example I shoot archery for fun. I use a compound bow. It’s not a traditional bow. And it’s not a crossbow. And I’m sorry, but if you shoot a crossbow, you’re not an archer. It’s similar, but it’s not the same thing. There’s no book called zen and the art of crossbows. It’s Zen and the art of archery.
Likewise, it’s very simple to draw a distinction between bicycles and other machines: bicycles don’t have a motor.
Man I think TH-cam is making this a bigger deal than what it is in reality. Most people don’t care what you ride. Those that really do are far and few. The root of the problem is courtesy. If I’m on a bike struggling, don’t get on my rear on an ebike telling me to move in a rude manner. That’s my beef with ebikers. It’s about 50% of them in my experience actually this way. Do I care if it’s an ebike? Nope! But many of them forget what it’s like riding a normal bike and treat the analog bikers as peasants in the way. I don’t care if they ride twice as long, and all the other blah blah bs they say… enjoy whatever bike you overpay for and be courteous to others
How you felt that day driving away from the parking lot is how I feel sometimes. I mostly ride fat bikes and I always get the comments like, expecting snow, bet that THING is heavy or just a shake of the head. When I try to make a joke back to them they think I’m being defensive. As a whole I think we are a bunch of like minded people just trying to have fun our own way!
Well said. "Don't be a dick" will be my next response when I get the "look" or comment I'm on my e bike. MTB ~20 years, also I ride both and love each for different reasons. Can't we just get along & shred like the old days? ;)
Good stuff. Appreciate you sharing this. I still get surprised when I encounter some eBike hate. But that's when I pull a Taylor Swift.
what does that entail? Video please. Lol.
Thanks. BUTTTT...We'd love to know what a Taylor Swift is! haha. Enlighten us.
Your not TS ❓all this time I’ve been watching thinking you were 😜
Shake it off
@@TheLoamWolf You keep talking like that and we're gonna have "bad blood". 😆
I loved mountain biking as a young man in the late 90s, early 2000's. I moved to another place that didn't have any good mountain biking close so I stopped riding. In 2021 I got back into mountain biking because a friend let me take 1 ride on his ebike. I now have an ebike and regular mountain bike and love to ride both of them. I probably would have never got back into it if it wasn't for ebikes! I wish some people could understand that. I have a fun group of friends I ride with, and it's made my life better in many ways.
Well said Drew! There are always small minded people in most walks of life! Certainly in the UK I think we are still quite a welcoming community to all who want to participate at any level! Keep up the good work with the channel.... 👊
Thanks Simon!
I quit surfing decades ago because I was turned off by crowds and localism. I am 52 and not nearly in the same shape that I was at 20. My technical skills are there.... Stamina not as much. I no longer weigh 155lbs. I weigh 240. Climbing anything steep or long would push me anaerobic and into the "no fun zone". Even when I would ride consistently I would only lose 10 pounds or so. My ebike has completely revamped the fun and adventure that I would get on my bike in my younger years. Biking is FUN again! As a result I am riding more miles and getting more smiles than I have in decades!
Confession here, I too have cracked on young guys heading up a paved climb on e-bikes to do another shuttle run. At 65 and not in the shape I was even 5yrs. ago and having way too many bikes already, if there is a "next" bike it will probably be an e-bike, and the wife gets one first! As far as people are concerned, we are all flawed and need a Savior. Thanks Loam Wolf.
I don't really care if you ride an ebike or not, but here is what I notice. The people who constantly complain about riding ebikes, all ride ebikes. The people who are tired of listening to other people complain about ebikes, don't ride ebikes.
I have an eMTB and a Hightower. The eMTB has opened up the mountains I ride near me to the point where I would never have discovered trails I absolutely love. Haters guna hate… no matter what they ride.
Keep up the good work.
You make several good points including "just being outside and enjoying the great outdoors" as many people don't appreciate all that we get out of riding. Another good point is that "there are a$$holes in every walk of life" and if they try to take your joy, its up to you to grow a thicker skin and ignore them (easy to say, not so easy to do!) as they are not going to change. My only counter point is that I do see too many new a$$hole emtb owner where I ride, who don't know about trail etiquette, as they go blasting by regular bike riders and hikers on all access and climbing trails. I love my emtb and have many younger friends who ride regular bikes and we all get along just fine. Education, respect and tolerance is solution.
Very well said n
It's crazy to me to hear that so many people are saying those things about your ebikes. Around here, maybe it's just because there are so many of them, I've never once heard a bad comment, if I get any comments it's about what a cool bike my Oso and Wild are.
I remember in the early 1980s how many negative attitudes hikers had towards us mountain bikers,same with snowboarders and skiers.most don't like change in our ever evolving sports!but eventually learn to co-exist and except. I live by sandy ridge bike trail and ebike it 3 or 4 days a week . Been noticing bikers being more acceptable over time I feel it is more of a ego issue for non ebikers and don't blame them. I reply with friendly attitude and offer assistance when necessary!
Be good and respect all (nature included!).
Who gives a shit, if people don't go along with "you", "ebikers", "what ever"...
For ex: I salut everyone, but I don't aspect the unknow guy/girl from the parking lot retributes it back... I wish... but couldn't care less
PS: And I salut EVERYONE! It's part of our nature to interact
Out where I live in Western Colorado most of the trails have banned e-bikes. Iv brought up to some friends I want an Ebike and have been immediately ridiculed for it. There’s definitely a very snobby attitude towards them out here. :(
Drew: I think you hit the nail on the head there when talking about it's not what people are doing, it's about the people themselves. Some, regardless of endeavor, are inclined to "put down" others in an effort to boost their own self esteem/worth. To me, its a juvenile self-serving power play that reveals their true character. Unfortunate, but it reminds me of the wisdom "Comparison is the thief of joy". 🙂
Best vent ever. I have both MTB & EMTB. For years I held off getting an e-version because of the potential strange looks and comments. They do happen. But honestly if you want to ride to have fun, get an e-bike. I still ride both and enjoy them both. Do the hard climbing in eco mode if you want to work the heart rate. The haters will get an e-bike eventually. Everyone ages. If they want to keep riding longer, they’ll get one.
Hi from Australia.
Love your video as no matter what sport there are always hateful people who need to wake up and be nice to everyone😁🚴♂️