MUSINGS ON THE BUTTPACK what makes a perfect buttpack? what considerations should you take into account when choosing a buttpack or if you should even run one?
I love the butt pack, I hate the direction modern gear has gone. Infantryman are not SWAT cops, our gear should be focused on long range patrolling and sustained war fighting operations.
Absolutely agree. I was attached to some smaller units that wanted me to carry a pistol. If I just had to carry more weight I’d rather carry more 556 or water. No room for John Wick crap in the field.
How important do you think it is to have a sidearm for military, or for civilians in a situation bad enough that we’re armed with a rifle? I get in case your rifle goes down but really how often is that and how much of a problem is that if you’re with a team?
@@Khemtime that's alway been my thought to as in civilian bug out situation. Only pistol I own are for my wife to carry. I always told her if things get to bad I'll be carrying my rifle and staying off the roads.... I also have a rifle for every member of my family... Guys ask me all the time why don't I have more pistols... I just tell them if it gets that bad I'll find pistol. Then you always get the CQB guy and my answer to them is shot gun. I would rather carry my cut down 870 with pistol grip for entering building with buck shot. Or home defence... I'm with you on the question of pistol. The one thing I found with pistols to is kids and women have a he'll of time racking slides in autos. So I made sure the wife use a revolver with speed loaders. You get into a bad sit. I just want her to point and shoot and not worry about anything else. Anyways good question
I dont mean to be offtopic but does someone know a trick to get back into an Instagram account? I was stupid lost my password. I would appreciate any assistance you can give me!
I was always a fan of the legacy M1956 LBE . I agree with Brent0331 - the modern stuff has gone to motor T CQB and not foot mobility. Going prone and crawling with a chest festooned with doo dads is a soup sandwich. Thanks for sharing !
I own the Black Hawk version of the Mini ALICE buttpack in woodland, it was designed to attach to a standard military pistol belt via both velcro flaps and Slider clips...it also has the top D rings for attaching suspenders. It was still too large so i removed the two side pouches...Huge difference!!! removing the side pouches means more room on the pistol belt for Canteens ect,...I would have removed the top zippered pouch but its perfect for holding a PSK. I was issued the Canvas M61 Buttpack in 1971 and still, even to this day own a few...they have remained my favorite Buttpack...we all carried a hodge podge of both 56 and 67 web gear, so the M67 stuff never fully replaced the M56. The ALICE was not fully developed until 73, by then most front line troops were replaced with ARVN Forces...enjoy watching your videos amigo!...atvb...woods
Several decades ago (yea, Im old), I was recon with the Airborne in Vicenza. We would scrounge for old Vietnam era H harness and butt packs. I could live for several days on what was on my LBE, butt pack etc. It contained ammo, food, shelter, and water. Add in my large Alice pack, much, much longer.
I was able to have my butt pack on and still use the ALICE pack sitting above it. If I doffed the ruck I still had the contents of the butt pack. The modern concept is to use the small patrol pack/assault pack for those same items that were in the butt pack. Thus having to attach the smaller pack to the outside of the ruck. All adding weight. I think the Brits have it figured out with their “webbing” and the “bergen” riding/resting on the 1st line “webbing” (belt and suspenders).
Faithful subscriber#5 checking in. I was late to the game, but someone already said what I came here to post. The Brits PLCE is done right. I have a set up with four of the utility pouches(two for water and for two GP). If you drop your ruck, you can live off that gear if need be. They were made to work in concert with a short back ruck like Alice. Molle may be the new girl in town, but Alice was built the right way. Plus, the PLCE can integrate with armor if you want to. Just use a slick carrier, and wear it over top of it. Keep up the great vids!
i worked with brits before and admired their "kit". the tactical tailor gp pouch reminds me of their stuff. i have one h harness with nothing but those. all purpose!
Thank you for the video. I have a modern recon butt pack on my belt kit. I took it to a luggage repair shop and had the D-rings added on with three heavy duty bar tacks. It was a game changer.
I believe that the original recon pack was the Eagle Industries one. They envisioned it to be used with the Eagle Industries MOLLE H-Harness. From what I've heard it's a super practical setup, but it's only really good if you use the Eagle/Eagle combo
SOE gear makes one that pretty close to the original. Drag handle, not crazy big but you can open top and use the cinch to fit up to a jungle bag no problem. Been getting back to the "old ways" and building out belt kit and the SOE buttpack has been awesome.
To paraphrase an online Article I've read- avoid the modern so-called Buttpacks that are so small they're actually Utility Pouches; and those so large as to actually be Rucksacks !
On the air force issued butt pack, why not run small carabiners on the outside molle straps at the very top? then you get some d ring functionality like you want.
I think I was the only one using a butt pack in Afghanistan in 09. Being 6 foot 4 I had a little extra space between the plate carrier and my hips, so I bought a Y harness and the lbv buttpack, canteen pouches, and 2 OD green magazine pouches from the 80s. Loved the setup, mostly because it took the weight off my chest and put it on my hips making the lower back much happier. I really hated the plate carrier getting in the way. I've been putting together a similar setup for camping and hunting with the butt pack as the foundation. I liked the shoulder straps of the lbv, but didn't need all of the magazine pouches in the front, so I swapped the front out for Y harness front straps. Now life is good. No plate carrier to worry about, and I can use the D rings. I've been thinking of adding a belly strap at the level of the D rings to hold it closer to my body. Have you ever tried that out? Thanks for the video.
I own 5 buttpacks of various types and sizes. Love the concept, and love them when used properly. Bear in mind, it is not always practical to run a buttpack. When you want/need one, though, they can be a game changer.
Butt pacs seem to be favoured by staff officers, to carry their jack rations and comforters. Great for getting caught on barbed wire entanglements, lawyer vine and thorny bushes in jungles and wooded areas. Makes it hard to get close when moving along walls in built up areas. In general a pain in the butt.🤣 Be like the Vietcong. A chest rig and a day rucksack, versatile and ergonomic. I Iike a Borneo style drop pouch belt rig, and a jungle rucksack , because it's a good idea to be able to go as prone as you can go, when on the two-way range.😁
The Velocity Systems jungle butt pack looks like it's essentially an updated original USGI nylon butt pack (Field pack, training/M67). Same shape, but uses fastex buckles and some PALS webbing on the sides and rear. You should check it out!
I used to have one of the original versions of the but pack and loved it I even did like you did and added the fastest buckles to it but mine still had the d-rings on it. I reinforced those those so that they would not RIP out with an extra layer of webbing also I sewed on the sides some Mollie webbing so as to attach a couple m16 mag pouches that I cut the separating web straps that are inside out and made one into a large iMac pouch and the other into a possible pouch/fire kit for carrying in the woods while hiking/hunting for a number of years I wish I still had it it worked great fantastic I carried in the pack my camo webbing shield for a homemade ground blind that I could see thrue but the deer could not see me. I hunt with a bow and a muzzle loader ( Blackpool powder ).
That new “butt pack” looks to be about the size of a WWII M1936 Musette Bag. If you paired it up with a chest rig or suspended setup and hung it from your shoulders, it might work better in that roll. Off you filled that thing all the way and hung it from you waist, it looks like it would be very awkward and unbalance you backwards.
Appreciate the video, very solid points and considerations. Don't know if it's been mentioned, but Velocity Systems makes essentially an updated version of the OG buttpack. Dad was 101st in Nam' 68-69, he said pretty much the only thing they carried in their buttpacks were mags and maybe Cs. In their rucks more mags, Cs, and water. I was issued the waistpack, thought it was absolutely useless until I became a machine gunner. It was a pretty good place to carry a 500 roundish belt to supplement the 100 round starter in case my AG went down or things went awry.
I picked up a M1961 at my local surplus store. I've been using it for almost two weeks now and it's by far my favorite pack for everyday carry. I always found older gear more towards my taste compared to what is available today.
Informative presentation, I’ve never seen the newest versions before. My lower back hurts a little just looking at them. Also thanks for the Fight Light Malice Clip recommendation to replace the metal ALICE clips for MOLLE. I have been using zip ties because I couldn’t find anything that fit.
I have one of those Recon but packs and I agree with you they're almost useless. One remedy I possibly see is to get some aftermarket d-ring or something and loop it through the Molly attachments when installing the pack onto some kind of belt and attaching a harness that way
I have been working with a m-1967 set of suspenders which have a second set of hooks up on the shoulder area. I think the Marines had a pack which looked like the larger molly but pack. For the M-1967. I have attached two butt backs, one high and the other on the belt. I really like the butt pack. You hit it on the head. If two is one then four is great. I will have back up to the back up.That.s why I gave up on the ALIC pack which I like also. Old guy old gear.
Even when I served in the early 90's, the canvas buttpacks I always bought (and kept replacing). I always loved the canvas stuff even though it wore out faster, and I was always suspicious if it held more water in rain, river crossings, etc. than the nylon gear.....
The Fox recon was the first MOLLE butt pack I got. I just went to Tractor Supply and bought two O rings from the horse section and ran two straps through them to use with my M1967 H suspenders. Usally run with M1956 on belt and M1967 or later nylon butt pack on back hooks.
After getting out of the Corps in ‘04 I have used a small hydration pack with a Blackhawk buttpack attached as a small game pouch. I’ll often try a purpose built small game vest but always go back to the buttpack setup lol.
The Molle II waist pack goes very well on ALICE gear if you slide a pair of USMC dive belt adapters onto the pistol belt and mount ut to those. And you really don't need the D-rings for it, because the closure straps hold it tight enough when cinched because if how wide the back is. Also, I can fit an entire fishing kit with Emrod pole and Ugly reel in it. Very good little pack in itself, really.
I was able to attach the woodland ALICE buttpack to my MOLLE II FLC via the clips directly to the pals webbing but I also fished the rear straps through the D-rings on the top of the pack to keep it vertical like it was originally intended for the previous generation load bearing gear. Since I pretty much use it for rain gear or light stuff anyway the webbing seems to hold up with no tears or anything. As for MOLLE II buttpacks like your first two examples, I have seen Chinese made versions on Ebay but I will bet good money that the quality and the overall dimensions will be a lot less than the original equipment. You have to realize that the modern military is going away from the standard load bearing gear and putting everything on the plate carriers, to me it makes no sense if you have to mount a transport quickly, just unzip the FLC off and hop in, even if you are wearing a simple plate carrier underneath. Of the standard issue gear, the army has completely dropped the FLC and went with chest rigs, don't know what the air force or Marines are using.
So I opted for a fox recon buttpack, after tossing it on to the belt, noticed the sag, took took 550 ran it through the top of the molle straps and connected it to the harness with that in lieu of D rings.
Great video! I'm always down to listen/ watch a discussion on butt packs! Personally I always thought those "recon butt packs" should of just been made with backpack straps because using something that big as a butt pack is just ridiculous.
I agree, they've made them too big and bulky and not very practical to use on a belt system. I tend to enjoy the older gear myself, when durability, functionality, and practicality were the main focus. Nowadays, it seems like the powers that be are more focused on how much they can make our guys carry. Thanks for the vids, Oorah!
"FireForce" makes a MOLLE version of the original style buttpack. It has a simple storm flap and fastex hardware with a few rows of webbing for using smaller pouches or lashing gear to. I like mine. It may be discontinued.
buttpack for me was for poncho, and extended duration gear like a couple mres and such. For the modern gear since were mounted we dont have it, BUT we do have a smaller pack that can carry all of that.
You could actually use the recon buttpack with a h harness if you slide d rings on the molle straps on the back and then somehow secure them im sure it would work cause i jury rig things like that all the time
I would like to have a recondo but pack in ABU to put it up high on my H-harness SFLCS back panel. Not to big but with enough support to make it supported and usable. The waist pack compared to the butt pack is just too wide takes up to important space of more important pouches.
Great history and critique of butt packs. Never used one but the idea of something bouncing around unsecured and unsupported does not sound so good. Thank you for the review. Stay safe and stay cool
vietnam war m1956, if the flap is square then its a rare early model, if its pack flap is round and has a rubber lining thing then its not as rare as the square one but still pretty rare and nice.
I don't know how long you've been at this, but, I can't believe you don't have a Spec Ops S.O.B. Mine is currently serving as my kitchen bag. ISO stove, fuel, GSI kettlist, spoon, lighters, brew stuff, etc, and 2 or 3 Mtn. House meals all fit.
I've run it and like it O.K. Bought it at Brigade Quartermasters store in Marietta Georgia. LOL, that should give a hint as to how old it is! Currently it's dismounted, but I run it on a LC2 belt with a Condor H harness. Plus the usual 24 hour gear. The only gripe with it? Why no PALS? And it could use drain holes. Anyhow, my set up is a great day pack, and down here in South Mississippi you want all the ventilation you can get. Have a GOODN.
Them big ones would be good with some Alice shoulder straps I think. I like the coyote brown one please send me a link or description so I can get one. I love all your channel videos keep up the good work.
I just picked up a cheap recon style ALICE and MOLLE compatible butt pack to test out before possibly buying the pricy the issued version... So far I'm not a fan. I mounted it midway on my molle padded belt and ran the H-harness straps through the top molle row and around each outer molle strap, so it's not terrible as long as you keep the rest of your heavy items on the sides and front as evenly as possible... I need to do more testing, but so far I think I still like having a USGI nylon butt pack with buckles, handle and D rings along with a MOLLE zippered sustainment/gp pouch or some other narrow but similar height MOLLE gp pouch would be a better solution. If it was wider and each side pocket held a canteen then it would be MUCH more useful... I swear the main compartment is like the nylon butt pack turned the wrong way for distributing weight or packing a ponco liner, and the 3 pockets are perfect only for holding 3 mags exactly where you shouldn't have heavy weight, so maybe just socks, boonie, watch cap or the random small necessities in another inner baggie in the pouch? (Anything in that middle pouch is gonna take a beating) ... Plus the height makes it impossible to lash a poncho/netting/etc. underneath or an E tool or other single random heavier field item on top... Time will tell but not very impressed with the setup so far... Also I couldn't imagine how bad this would flop around on an ALICE belt using the included slots! You'd definitely have to clip the harness to the top molle row and just hope it held.
@@renaissancemarinetv3536 it seems both too big and too small at the same time... Like the narrow but tall compartment mixed with bulky top and side pouches make it perfectly the wrong size lol, I actually repacked it again in the last couple days so we'll see I guess. Great video BTW 👍
We had origonally hook Butt Packs then D ring and they kept them basic size in the Australian Army. As a civvie I use this gear still for hiking. Tried molle versions went back to origonal..UNTIL...I discovered the UK issue GSR gas mask case. A tad smaller slimmerline, but It got D rings. Slimmer better on a chair or vechile. I run it with 2 UK water bottle pouches. A bit of food light small compressed sleep bag bivi bag 3in1 coffee pot under water bottle set for a hike 2lt water. Or if the mood strikes stay out overnight
If you wanted to use the butt pack as a mini stand alone alice pack (not weaved into the back of a plate carrier, or attached to an h harness) but with straps for itself, you should take a look at how the condor hcb2 hydration carrier has shoulder straps that attach to the pals webbing. Im looking for something with a bit more padding because they are thin but it does work if you keep it light. Anyways just an idea since you said you couldnt take it off to get in it if its attached the other ways
Ever since We Were Soldiers was released I wondered about the butt pack. Figured it probably was meant for socks. Maybe a beanie. Extra gloves. Woobie. Maybe a stripped MRE. As a civilian I work with guys who went to Iraq & Afghanistan and all they talk about is what they could ride on patrol wearing and how much plates suck in blast oven heat. Again as a civvy who tries to integrate surplus into my gear, my woobie & maybe 1 pair a decent quality wool socks is all that would fit in the first three shown. Which is fine. I’d rather have those than not on a longer range patrol. Where I need some help from veterans is where are the primary pick points on the last 3 reckon packs? Are they supposed to affix to the bottom or rear of a plates/carrier system? Or to the bottom of a larger ruck? It seems like without the H or Y harness the nicety of that extra volume immediately turns into a guaranteed screaming lower back? Seems obvious that one wouldn’t place those mini ALICE packs solely on a war belt without 2 additional pick points? That’d ruin the ergonomics of a well planned belt. Can someone set me straight on this? PS: new sub. I watch Brent and youtube led me over here.
I bought one of the Recon Butt packs, and came to the same conclusions. The only use I found for it was to Mount it to the back of my Tactical Tailor MAV to replicate a Russian Smersh vest - but that created the new problem(s) of not being able to carry a bladder or ruck. I then tried a modern approach to an ALICE type belt with it, and I just stopped trying. It’s too small to be a pack, and too big to be a pouch
what do you think of the um21 butt pack. i picked one up a few years ago and used it a few times. hopefully use it this year as a go-lite pack for overnighters with a poncho roll
I like the um21 buttpack. I've been using it as a small travel bag but am planning on fitting it up for hiking soon. Its got a lot of good things going for it. Plastic stiffener in the back, built in standalone waist belt, long cinch straps. My biggest complaint is no pals webbing on the sides. That being said its built to be packed to the gills and you'd definitely want it attached to a harness.
@@GryphonIndustrial thanks you, have it rigged with a shoulder strap from sarma custom made, use both together or as a stand alone over the shoulder.cut out the ridgid plastic and put in some closed cell foam for comfort and to support and it works great. butt packs and belt orders have come full circle. got put onto butt pack from friends who served in the UK ( never served but have family that did).
Love the video... I'm with you on the butt pack... The m56 to the Alice gear butt backs are the best. My bug out home gear is a mix of M56/67/Alice gear. You know what the bigger butt pack would be good with M67 suspenders. Put some D rings on it and attach to back upper clips... Use it as a mini Alice pack like you said.... Other than that using it as a butt pack without D ring would sux unless your attaching to a ruck.
They are made to attach to the h harness not the belt that is why they don’t have d rings.. they are more of an assault pack then a buttpack.. The issue is you can’t carry a field pack with one of these.. so why settle for a small assault pack when you could have a 72h pack? Makes no sense..
It's not meant to be used to carry a sustainment load. It's similar to the British PLCE system. Why carry a 72 hour+ sustainment load when you know you're gonna be back to your ruck before then
I know this video is a year old but I too love the butt pack and don't care for the way it has evolved into a huge worthless piece of gear. If you want a modern version of the old m1961 buttpack then velocity systems mayflower jungle buttpack is the way to go. It doesn't have the carry handle but In my opinion I dont see much of a need anyways.
No Mollie or clips? Just use a file on a cable binder and clip to length then slightly melt the union. A lot more comfortable. Depending upon what you are wearing, the butt pack does hold food. Just one man's opinion. S. Fi
I love the butt pack, I hate the direction modern gear has gone. Infantryman are not SWAT cops, our gear should be focused on long range patrolling and sustained war fighting operations.
Absolutely agree. I was attached to some smaller units that wanted me to carry a pistol. If I just had to carry more weight I’d rather carry more 556 or water. No room for John Wick crap in the field.
How important do you think it is to have a sidearm for military, or for civilians in a situation bad enough that we’re armed with a rifle? I get in case your rifle goes down but really how often is that and how much of a problem is that if you’re with a team?
@@Khemtime that's alway been my thought to as in civilian bug out situation.
Only pistol I own are for my wife to carry.
I always told her if things get to bad I'll be carrying my rifle and staying off the roads.... I also have a rifle for every member of my family... Guys ask me all the time why don't I have more pistols... I just tell them if it gets that bad I'll find pistol. Then you always get the CQB guy and my answer to them is shot gun. I would rather carry my cut down 870 with pistol grip for entering building with buck shot. Or home defence...
I'm with you on the question of pistol.
The one thing I found with pistols to is kids and women have a he'll of time racking slides in autos. So I made sure the wife use a revolver with speed loaders.
You get into a bad sit. I just want her to point and shoot and not worry about anything else.
Anyways good question
I dont mean to be offtopic but does someone know a trick to get back into an Instagram account?
I was stupid lost my password. I would appreciate any assistance you can give me!
@Anthony Alfredo instablaster :)
“Low speed, high drag”, I’m there.
bruh me too lol
I was always a fan of the legacy M1956 LBE . I agree with Brent0331 - the modern stuff has gone to motor T CQB and not foot mobility. Going prone and crawling with a chest festooned with doo dads is a soup sandwich. Thanks for sharing !
@Glizzy6d Cool story kid. Make some videos.
"Low speed, high drag"
Relatable... I'm gonna start saying this
I own the Black Hawk version of the Mini ALICE buttpack in woodland, it was designed to attach to a standard military pistol belt via both velcro flaps and Slider clips...it also has the top D rings for attaching suspenders.
It was still too large so i removed the two side pouches...Huge difference!!! removing the side pouches means more room on the pistol belt for Canteens ect,...I would have removed the top zippered pouch but its perfect for holding a PSK.
I was issued the Canvas M61 Buttpack in 1971 and still, even to this day own a few...they have remained my favorite Buttpack...we all carried a hodge podge of both 56 and 67 web gear, so the M67 stuff never fully replaced the M56. The ALICE was not fully developed until 73, by then most front line troops were replaced with ARVN Forces...enjoy watching your videos amigo!...atvb...woods
that is exactly what i ended up doing with that big behemoth...cutting the side pouches off.
Several decades ago (yea, Im old), I was recon with the Airborne in Vicenza. We would scrounge for old Vietnam era H harness and butt packs. I could live for several days on what was on my LBE, butt pack etc. It contained ammo, food, shelter, and water. Add in my large Alice pack, much, much longer.
I was able to have my butt pack on and still use the ALICE pack sitting above it. If I doffed the ruck I still had the contents of the butt pack. The modern concept is to use the small patrol pack/assault pack for those same items that were in the butt pack. Thus having to attach the smaller pack to the outside of the ruck. All adding weight. I think the Brits have it figured out with their “webbing” and the “bergen” riding/resting on the 1st line “webbing” (belt and suspenders).
exactly!
Faithful subscriber#5 checking in. I was late to the game, but someone already said what I came here to post. The Brits PLCE is done right. I have a set up with four of the utility pouches(two for water and for two GP). If you drop your ruck, you can live off that gear if need be. They were made to work in concert with a short back ruck like Alice. Molle may be the new girl in town, but Alice was built the right way. Plus, the PLCE can integrate with armor if you want to. Just use a slick carrier, and wear it over top of it. Keep up the great vids!
i worked with brits before and admired their "kit". the tactical tailor gp pouch reminds me of their stuff. i have one h harness with nothing but those. all purpose!
Thank you for the video. I have a modern recon butt pack on my belt kit. I took it to a luggage repair shop and had the D-rings added on with three heavy duty bar tacks. It was a game changer.
I believe that the original recon pack was the Eagle Industries one. They envisioned it to be used with the Eagle Industries MOLLE H-Harness. From what I've heard it's a super practical setup, but it's only really good if you use the Eagle/Eagle combo
The m1956 and the 3 day training buttpacks are probably my favorites.
SOE gear makes one that pretty close to the original. Drag handle, not crazy big but you can open top and use the cinch to fit up to a jungle bag no problem. Been getting back to the "old ways" and building out belt kit and the SOE buttpack has been awesome.
To paraphrase an online Article I've read- avoid the modern so-called Buttpacks that are so small they're actually Utility Pouches; and those so large as to actually be Rucksacks !
On the air force issued butt pack, why not run small carabiners on the outside molle straps at the very top? then you get some d ring functionality like you want.
I think I was the only one using a butt pack in Afghanistan in 09. Being 6 foot 4 I had a little extra space between the plate carrier and my hips, so I bought a Y harness and the lbv buttpack, canteen pouches, and 2 OD green magazine pouches from the 80s. Loved the setup, mostly because it took the weight off my chest and put it on my hips making the lower back much happier. I really hated the plate carrier getting in the way.
I've been putting together a similar setup for camping and hunting with the butt pack as the foundation. I liked the shoulder straps of the lbv, but didn't need all of the magazine pouches in the front, so I swapped the front out for Y harness front straps.
Now life is good. No plate carrier to worry about, and I can use the D rings. I've been thinking of adding a belly strap at the level of the D rings to hold it closer to my body. Have you ever tried that out?
Thanks for the video.
you mean a sternum strap, just lower? yeah they are good additions. thank you for watching and commenting.
I own 5 buttpacks of various types and sizes. Love the concept, and love them when used properly. Bear in mind, it is not always practical to run a buttpack. When you want/need one, though, they can be a game changer.
Butt pacs seem to be favoured by staff officers, to carry their jack rations and comforters. Great for getting caught on barbed wire entanglements, lawyer vine and thorny bushes in jungles and wooded areas. Makes it hard to get close when moving along walls in built up areas. In general a pain in the butt.🤣 Be like the Vietcong. A chest rig and a day rucksack, versatile and ergonomic. I Iike a Borneo style drop pouch belt rig, and a jungle rucksack , because it's a good idea to be able to go as prone as you can go, when on the two-way range.😁
The Velocity Systems jungle butt pack looks like it's essentially an updated original USGI nylon butt pack (Field pack, training/M67). Same shape, but uses fastex buckles and some PALS webbing on the sides and rear. You should check it out!
I used to have one of the original versions of the but pack and loved it I even did like you did and added the fastest buckles to it but mine still had the d-rings on it. I reinforced those those so that they would not RIP out with an extra layer of webbing also I sewed on the sides some Mollie webbing so as to attach a couple m16 mag pouches that I cut the separating web straps that are inside out and made one into a large iMac pouch and the other into a possible pouch/fire kit for carrying in the woods while hiking/hunting for a number of years I wish I still had it it worked great fantastic I carried in the pack my camo webbing shield for a homemade ground blind that I could see thrue but the deer could not see me. I hunt with a bow and a muzzle loader ( Blackpool powder ).
That new “butt pack” looks to be about the size of a WWII M1936 Musette Bag. If you paired it up with a chest rig or suspended setup and hung it from your shoulders, it might work better in that roll. Off you filled that thing all the way and hung it from you waist, it looks like it would be very awkward and unbalance you backwards.
I agree, there is a market for the original size LCE butt pack for a molle belt
Appreciate the video, very solid points and considerations. Don't know if it's been mentioned, but Velocity Systems makes essentially an updated version of the OG buttpack. Dad was 101st in Nam' 68-69, he said pretty much the only thing they carried in their buttpacks were mags and maybe Cs. In their rucks more mags, Cs, and water. I was issued the waistpack, thought it was absolutely useless until I became a machine gunner. It was a pretty good place to carry a 500 roundish belt to supplement the 100 round starter in case my AG went down or things went awry.
Seems like it wouldn't hang well with 500 rounds of 5.56
I picked up a M1961 at my local surplus store. I've been using it for almost two weeks now and it's by far my favorite pack for everyday carry. I always found older gear more towards my taste compared to what is available today.
Informative presentation, I’ve never seen the newest versions before. My lower back hurts a little just looking at them. Also thanks for the Fight Light Malice Clip recommendation to replace the metal ALICE clips for MOLLE. I have been using zip ties because I couldn’t find anything that fit.
th-cam.com/video/O3oRknEU9AU/w-d-xo.html
I have one of those Recon but packs and I agree with you they're almost useless. One remedy I possibly see is to get some aftermarket d-ring or something and loop it through the Molly attachments when installing the pack onto some kind of belt and attaching a harness that way
I have been working with a m-1967 set of suspenders which have a second set of hooks up on the shoulder area. I think the Marines had a pack which looked like the larger molly but pack. For the M-1967. I have attached two butt backs, one high and the other on the belt. I really like the butt pack. You hit it on the head. If two is one then four is great. I will have back up to the back up.That.s why I gave up on the ALIC pack which I like also. Old guy old gear.
Even when I served in the early 90's, the canvas buttpacks I always bought (and kept replacing). I always loved the canvas stuff even though it wore out faster, and I was always suspicious if it held more water in rain, river crossings, etc. than the nylon gear.....
The Fox recon was the first MOLLE butt pack I got. I just went to Tractor Supply and bought two O rings from the horse section and ran two straps through them to use with my M1967 H suspenders. Usally run with M1956 on belt and M1967 or later nylon butt pack on back hooks.
After getting out of the Corps in ‘04 I have used a small hydration pack with a Blackhawk buttpack attached as a small game pouch. I’ll often try a purpose built small game vest but always go back to the buttpack setup lol.
The Molle II waist pack goes very well on ALICE gear if you slide a pair of USMC dive belt adapters onto the pistol belt and mount ut to those. And you really don't need the D-rings for it, because the closure straps hold it tight enough when cinched because if how wide the back is. Also, I can fit an entire fishing kit with Emrod pole and Ugly reel in it. Very good little pack in itself, really.
I was able to attach the woodland ALICE buttpack to my MOLLE II FLC via the clips directly to the pals webbing but I also fished the rear straps through the D-rings on the top of the pack to keep it vertical like it was originally intended for the previous generation load bearing gear. Since I pretty much use it for rain gear or light stuff anyway the webbing seems to hold up with no tears or anything.
As for MOLLE II buttpacks like your first two examples, I have seen Chinese made versions on Ebay but I will bet good money that the quality and the overall dimensions will be a lot less than the original equipment.
You have to realize that the modern military is going away from the standard load bearing gear and putting everything on the plate carriers, to me it makes no sense if you have to mount a transport quickly, just unzip the FLC off and hop in, even if you are wearing a simple plate carrier underneath. Of the standard issue gear, the army has completely dropped the FLC and went with chest rigs, don't know what the air force or Marines are using.
So I opted for a fox recon buttpack, after tossing it on to the belt, noticed the sag, took took 550 ran it through the top of the molle straps and connected it to the harness with that in lieu of D rings.
Great video! I'm always down to listen/ watch a discussion on butt packs! Personally I always thought those "recon butt packs" should of just been made with backpack straps because using something that big as a butt pack is just ridiculous.
My two ass packs are canvas with the roll down inside closure. Great piece of gear.
m1956, vietnam war.
Fire force tactical makes a molle version of the original
I agree, they've made them too big and bulky and not very practical to use on a belt system. I tend to enjoy the older gear myself, when durability, functionality, and practicality were the main focus. Nowadays, it seems like the powers that be are more focused on how much they can make our guys carry. Thanks for the vids, Oorah!
Rothcos Molle butt pack seems closest to the original but all the pictures I see online don’t show the back
"FireForce" makes a MOLLE version of the original style buttpack. It has a simple storm flap and fastex hardware with a few rows of webbing for using smaller pouches or lashing gear to. I like mine. It may be discontinued.
buttpack for me was for poncho, and extended duration gear like a couple mres and such. For the modern gear since were mounted we dont have it, BUT we do have a smaller pack that can carry all of that.
The OSOE Butt Pack is very similar to the original ones and is molle attachment.
do you know a good source for them?
The OSOE website is the only source I’m aware of.
Giving SOE money is like poking yourself in the eye with a pencil.
You could actually use the recon buttpack with a h harness if you slide d rings on the molle straps on the back and then somehow secure them im sure it would work cause i jury rig things like that all the time
I would like to have a recondo but pack in ABU to put it up high on my H-harness SFLCS back panel.
Not to big but with enough support to make it supported and usable.
The waist pack compared to the butt pack is just too wide takes up to important space of more important pouches.
yeah the waist pack definitely has to be packed differently
As a suggestion, you can thread a D ring or a short cable binder loop on the outside belt loops to attract a Y harness. Good discussion.
Great history and critique of butt packs. Never used one but the idea of something bouncing around unsecured and unsupported does not sound so good. Thank you for the review. Stay safe and stay cool
Mine is like your nylon one, the first one you talked about. But mine is canvas.
vietnam war m1956, if the flap is square then its a rare early model, if its pack flap is round and has a rubber lining thing then its not as rare as the square one but still pretty rare and nice.
I don't know how long you've been at this, but, I can't believe you don't have a Spec Ops S.O.B. Mine is currently serving as my kitchen bag. ISO stove, fuel, GSI kettlist, spoon, lighters, brew stuff, etc, and 2 or 3 Mtn. House meals all fit.
i do have one of those but have never used it as a buttpack. it have it in my pickup as a med kit right now.
I've run it and like it O.K. Bought it at Brigade Quartermasters store in Marietta Georgia. LOL, that should give a hint as to how old it is! Currently it's dismounted, but I run it on a LC2 belt with a Condor H harness. Plus the usual 24 hour gear. The only gripe with it? Why no PALS? And it could use drain holes. Anyhow, my set up is a great day pack, and down here in South Mississippi you want all the ventilation you can get. Have a GOODN.
i actually love my issued molle2 waist pack
Nice collection and great video
Them big ones would be good with some Alice shoulder straps I think.
I like the coyote brown one please send me a link or description so I can get one. I love all your channel videos keep up the good work.
I just picked up a cheap recon style ALICE and MOLLE compatible butt pack to test out before possibly buying the pricy the issued version... So far I'm not a fan. I mounted it midway on my molle padded belt and ran the H-harness straps through the top molle row and around each outer molle strap, so it's not terrible as long as you keep the rest of your heavy items on the sides and front as evenly as possible... I need to do more testing, but so far I think I still like having a USGI nylon butt pack with buckles, handle and D rings along with a MOLLE zippered sustainment/gp pouch or some other narrow but similar height MOLLE gp pouch would be a better solution. If it was wider and each side pocket held a canteen then it would be MUCH more useful... I swear the main compartment is like the nylon butt pack turned the wrong way for distributing weight or packing a ponco liner, and the 3 pockets are perfect only for holding 3 mags exactly where you shouldn't have heavy weight, so maybe just socks, boonie, watch cap or the random small necessities in another inner baggie in the pouch? (Anything in that middle pouch is gonna take a beating) ... Plus the height makes it impossible to lash a poncho/netting/etc. underneath or an E tool or other single random heavier field item on top... Time will tell but not very impressed with the setup so far... Also I couldn't imagine how bad this would flop around on an ALICE belt using the included slots! You'd definitely have to clip the harness to the top molle row and just hope it held.
butt packs can definitely be TOO big.
@@renaissancemarinetv3536 it seems both too big and too small at the same time... Like the narrow but tall compartment mixed with bulky top and side pouches make it perfectly the wrong size lol, I actually repacked it again in the last couple days so we'll see I guess. Great video BTW 👍
I recommend checking out the Mayflower Research buttpack.
oh, that is nice!
Or the Kifaru Hellcat or Scout, they are great too!
Thanks for this.
Awesome video dude. Butt packs are certainly still a valid capability.
Once we get into it with china we will be back to patrolman gear.
Not a lot of roads or open spaces on islands and jungles.
We had origonally hook Butt Packs then D ring and they kept them basic size in the Australian Army. As a civvie I use this gear still for hiking. Tried molle versions went back to origonal..UNTIL...I discovered the UK issue GSR gas mask case. A tad smaller slimmerline, but It got D rings.
Slimmer better on a chair or vechile. I run it with 2 UK water bottle pouches. A bit of food light small compressed sleep bag bivi bag 3in1 coffee pot under water bottle set for a hike 2lt water. Or if the mood strikes stay out overnight
i had to look it up. damn that looks good. where can i get one in the states?
If you wanted to use the butt pack as a mini stand alone alice pack (not weaved into the back of a plate carrier, or attached to an h harness) but with straps for itself, you should take a look at how the condor hcb2 hydration carrier has shoulder straps that attach to the pals webbing. Im looking for something with a bit more padding because they are thin but it does work if you keep it light. Anyways just an idea since you said you couldnt take it off to get in it if its attached the other ways
Aside from your preference to keep less in the buttpack, the NixieWorks LFR buttpack is worth checking out.
The woodland buttpack was issued before the vests where a thing.
Ever since We Were Soldiers was released I wondered about the butt pack. Figured it probably was meant for socks. Maybe a beanie. Extra gloves. Woobie. Maybe a stripped MRE. As a civilian I work with guys who went to Iraq & Afghanistan and all they talk about is what they could ride on patrol wearing and how much plates suck in blast oven heat. Again as a civvy who tries to integrate surplus into my gear, my woobie & maybe 1 pair a decent quality wool socks is all that would fit in the first three shown. Which is fine. I’d rather have those than not on a longer range patrol. Where I need some help from veterans is where are the primary pick points on the last 3 reckon packs? Are they supposed to affix to the bottom or rear of a plates/carrier system? Or to the bottom of a larger ruck? It seems like without the H or Y harness the nicety of that extra volume immediately turns into a guaranteed screaming lower back? Seems obvious that one wouldn’t place those mini ALICE packs solely on a war belt without 2 additional pick points? That’d ruin the ergonomics of a well planned belt. Can someone set me straight on this?
PS: new sub. I watch Brent and youtube led me over here.
I bought one of the Recon Butt packs, and came to the same conclusions. The only use I found for it was to Mount it to the back of my Tactical Tailor MAV to replicate a Russian Smersh vest - but that created the new problem(s) of not being able to carry a bladder or ruck. I then tried a modern approach to an ALICE type belt with it, and I just stopped trying.
It’s too small to be a pack, and too big to be a pouch
@Robert Williamson i would like to see pictures or a video of that setup.
put metal key rings in place of the D Rings. That what I did
Where did you get that latest multicam one?
got it at the thrift store on base.
We used the molle 2 for carrying extra belted ammo through out a squad. I loved my recon style buttpack.
Great video sir
Removing H-harness attachment points doesn't make any sense. It achieves no goal and it ruins the whole idea behind a butt pack.
what do you think of the um21 butt pack. i picked one up a few years ago and used it a few times. hopefully use it this year as a go-lite pack for overnighters with a poncho roll
that is a neat system. i have never seen one in real life but would love to get my hands on that whole system.
I like the um21 buttpack. I've been using it as a small travel bag but am planning on fitting it up for hiking soon. Its got a lot of good things going for it. Plastic stiffener in the back, built in standalone waist belt, long cinch straps. My biggest complaint is no pals webbing on the sides. That being said its built to be packed to the gills and you'd definitely want it attached to a harness.
@@GryphonIndustrial thanks you, have it rigged with a shoulder strap from sarma custom made, use both together or as a stand alone over the shoulder.cut out the ridgid plastic and put in some closed cell foam for comfort and to support and it works great. butt packs and belt orders have come full circle. got put onto butt pack from friends who served in the UK ( never served but have family that did).
Love the video... I'm with you on the butt pack... The m56 to the Alice gear butt backs are the best. My bug out home gear is a mix of M56/67/Alice gear.
You know what the bigger butt pack would be good with M67 suspenders. Put some D rings on it and attach to back upper clips... Use it as a mini Alice pack like you said.... Other than that using it as a butt pack without D ring would sux unless your attaching to a ruck.
my findings exactly.
I like the lbv88
I love these where can I get that coyote brown one and what is the name of it.??
tactical tailor
Yo tengo
Fantastic
Grimlock biners will replace the D rings okay
The Air Force pack would make a very good possibles bag
Yes You Are So Right about This D Rings are Needed 😎🤙
They are made to attach to the h harness not the belt that is why they don’t have d rings.. they are more of an assault pack then a buttpack..
The issue is you can’t carry a field pack with one of these.. so why settle for a small assault pack when you could have a 72h pack? Makes no sense..
It's not meant to be used to carry a sustainment load. It's similar to the British PLCE system. Why carry a 72 hour+ sustainment load when you know you're gonna be back to your ruck before then
I know this video is a year old but I too love the butt pack and don't care for the way it has evolved into a huge worthless piece of gear. If you want a modern version of the old m1961 buttpack then velocity systems mayflower jungle buttpack is the way to go. It doesn't have the carry handle but In my opinion I dont see much of a need anyways.
No Mollie or clips? Just use a file on a cable binder and clip to length then slightly melt the union. A lot more comfortable. Depending upon what you are wearing, the butt pack does hold food. Just one man's opinion. S. Fi
Just put a d ring or clasp on the molle…
Just purchased an old lbv 88 and setting up an nastalga rig. Tired of the gucci gear.
look jungle butpack
Im looking for a buttpack but I’m not sure what I have to look for
I've got my waist pack on the pistol belt of my LBV-88...Buttpack sits right on top of it no problem