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That Cheap Foul Weather Sailing Gear Might Cost Your Life!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ส.ค. 2024
- With a myriad of choices on the market today it can be hard to pick the right sailing foul weather gear.
Many manufacturers focus on waterproofness, breathability, and visibility, but the cheaper manufacturers don't tend to optimize their designs for draining water from the liner and pockets.
In this video we demonstrate how much water a cheap PVC foul weather suit can retain versus a more expensive Gore-Tex jacket designed specifically to shed water from the liner and pockets.
That may not seem like a big deal, but it could literally mean the difference between life and death if you fall in the water.
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#sailing #foul #weather #gear #sailingtips
I learned that my cheap PVC set was horrible for water retention at an ISAF Safety at Sea course where we did life raft drills in the pool - I felt like a water balloon climbing out of the pool! I got the expensive set shortly afterward. If you’re concerned about your set just test it! Ideally by swimming in a pool with it, and then climbing out of the deep end on a ladder, which simulates what you would experience climbing back aboard a boat. You can also test it in the bathtub, or at the dock like I did, but be sure to squeeze all the air bubbles out, otherwise you’ll get a false result, assuming of course the air bubbles will escape while you’re swimming in a person overboard situation.
I would have never known this. Great I formation and potentially life saving. Thank you.
Glad it’s helpful! If you’re in doubt about your current gear just test it!
Never thought of this, and thank you for all the awesome tips! Keep them coming!
Thanks - glad you find them useful!
Sailing 40 years and never considered this aspect of choosing foul weather gear... old dogs can learn new tricks.
Cool! The cheap jacket I tested has drains in the liner in the main body, so it looks like it might be okay, but there are no drains in the arms or legs, nor the pockets, so it can be deceiving!
I use an unlined fisherman’s jacket, $99. And it is yellow…as it should be.
Take that cheap one, five minutes with a sharp knife, and you have shoved the problem?
But good point, definitely worth doing a water test. Mind, what you wear underneath could be as much a problem.
In heavy weather, use a dry suit?
Yes you could very well solve the problem with a sharp knife and cutting slits in the liner and pocket bottoms in the appropriate locations. What you wear underneath could also play a role, but it's unlikely to retain quite as much water as the liner and pockets of a PVC jacket. My current go-to gear for really nasty weather is a Mustang EP 6.5 dry suit, which has a sailing hood and neck tube. A friend has a Kokatat which is also great, a bit more general purpose for other activities as well
I agree totally with spending the money on safety gear, I recently replaced my Gill OS2 with a H/H Aegir Race as the Gill was much like that cheap jacket lined. good for super cold weather but how often are you really in that kind of weather. I also have a Musto BR2 for those less nasty days lol. Preparedness is key when sailing, having the right gear is half of the equation. There is a reason why the Ocean Race folks all wear shell type gear, layered, for a reason.
Yes having good gear can be a game changer in terms of comfort too! I also use a general purpose Arc’teryx jacket for lighter days when I don’t need full foulies.
@@SailingTipsCa you are on the money there my friend. The BR2 has replaced my Alpha SV as my light shell and I have to say its much better at doing that job then the Arc'teryx. Its just constructed differently I suppose
@@fk8marko774 Yeah the Arc’teryx certainly isn’t optimal but lots of people already have jackets like that for other outdoor activities so I think it’s a reasonably “safe” alternative to actual sailing gear in a pinch.
@@SailingTipsCa firm believer in use what you have lol
I have a aegir race jacket as well
The expensive jacket is a shell or the outer layer of a three layer system and will not keep you warm, depending on what the wearer wears under this jacket will impact on the gross weight (person plus wet clothing) that is being retrieved from the water, therefor it is just as important to wear clothing that does not retain water under the jacket.
Yes you’re absolutely right! Neither jacket actually has any insulating layers but the cheap jacket also contains a built in drogue!
Excellent video.
Glad you liked it!
Excellent tip
Glad it was helpful!
« There is no such thing as bad weather, there is only bad equipment ! » Thanks for your vidéo.
You’re absolutely right! Glad you liked the video!
This is super educational
Glad you liked it!
Great vid! That explains, why my gear needed 3 days to dry after we got in a heavy rain (we could only see for like 20m, everything els was rain - bruh Norway). My gear was even in hot/dry boat conditions, thanks to a Diesel heater on board. And my gear indeed has those inlets!
Tho i like my gear, have it for 10years and got it from Lidl, but this is a big flaw. When i get money (or maybe as a gift from my parents?) im gonna buy a new set! Thanks :)
Good breathable (e.g. Gore Tex) gear is also more comfortable!
I didnt know this, thanks!!
Glad you found it helpful!
Nicely done, im sailing my whole life and I actualy never wanted to spend so much money on this. But i must admit that this video is quite convincing to pay for the higher end (even if it looks very light-which is good in the end). Only thing the sound is very hollow; maybe use a better microphone or put a headset on. Cheers.
Thanks! I once wore the cheap PVC suit to an ISAF Safety at Sea course where we had to do swimming and life raft exercises in the pool - I felt like a giant water balloon trying to climb out of the water! I then got the Henri Lloyd and it was much better, although I didn't realize how much until I did this test. I also wear a general purpose Arc'teryx Gore Tex jacket on lighter days, which also sheds water nicely because it doesn't have a liner, and lots of people already have jackets like that.
Also totally agree with you about the sound - I'm looking for a nice Bluetooth-enabled lapel mic if you or anybody else has any recommendations!
What a great video
Glad you liked it!
Thank you so much for this video and noting the Safety at Sea course. New sailor here and I'm accumulating information/knowledge.
Also, the life jacket will be worn above the jacket. Wich raises the questions: how effective is the life jacket when it has to float the extra weight? Also, if need to jettison the jacket while in the water, the life jacket has to come off. Increased danger.
Glad you found the video helpful! A water-trapping jacket doesn’t increase the buoyancy load on the life jacket for as long as you’re in the water, because the other water around the jacket is supporting it. It’s only when you try to climb out and it’s no longer being supported by the surrounding water that it becomes a huge problem! I also wouldn’t jettison a jacket in the water unless it was somehow causing be to be trapped (i.e. caught on something) because the water inside the jacket will warm slightly relative to the surrounding water from your body heat, which keep you warmer for a bit longer.
As a windsurfer and sailor who rides/sails until water changes to ice a Kokatat or similar Gore-Tex dry suit is the way to go. With A light fleece under layer you are warm and dry and it isn’t bulky or restrictive of movement out or in water. $1200 for the best. Is your life worth $1200?
I totally agree! My current go-to foul weather gear for multihull sailing is a Mustang EP 6.5 dry suit, which has a sailing hood and neck tube. A friend has a Kokatat which is also great, a bit more general purpose for other activities as well.
I will be careful when I go sailing & someone offers me their "spare" weather proof jacket. If it's the cheap one, I'll wonder what I didn't to tick them off! 😉 (This is from you saying that, " no one you love or car about will be wearing that jacket," after your testing.)
Thanks for the informative video. Always good to learn why good gear is important!
Some cheap gear might be okay, but you really need to look closely. My cheap gear has drains in the liner in the main body so at first glance it looks okay, but there are in the liner for the arms or legs, or the pockets, so that's where it retains the water. The whole thing really needs to drain!
@@SailingTipsCa So, maybe a DIY upgrade would be adding grommets through the liner inside the legs and arms and of course pocket bottoms.
@@kurtism9040 That would definitely help!!!
As a sailor i think this demo was a bit dramatic. You have a life vest on when sailing. At least you should. I’d rather skimp on the jacket but never on a quality life jacket. But yes to your point, never a good thing to add weight when submersed.
It’s not a problem in the water because the water outside is supporting the water inside - it’s when you try to climb out, or somebody tries to pull you out that it’s a problem!
Wow, this is enlightening.
Me too! I was surprised when I tried to climb out of the pool in a Safety at Sea course with the cheap suit, but even more surprised to actually weigh it!!!
I love my Henri Lloyd set. Highest visibility neon yellow.
Nice! Mine has lasted a good long time and hopefully yours does too!
This is dedfinetly a usefull video! Thank you so much!
Glad it was helpful!
Yes, when its about your safety and health don't go cheap. Musto has great discounts every year on sailing gear, and other stores might as well..
At least when spending money on good safe follies you generally get comfort too!!!
Got lucky on that one, my father worked for Groupama in their record days and as managed to keep a few full set and he also managed to get some of sodebo's so we've got some very high quality jacket and pants for nothing...
Wow that's super cool!!!
@@SailingTipsCa yea, I also have a 2 meter tall portion of Groupama 3 mast as well as some section of her floater when she capsize near new Zealand...
Well if you fall overboard in a situation were you need your foul wather gear and its not just a heavy rain without any wind - you are dead anyway. Atleast the cheap one is ending your missery faster.
Yes falling overboard in rough seas is very dangerous and your chances of survival are slim!
Honestly, gimme a break. I have done several offshore passages including three Bermuda Races with just cheap yellow fisherman-type foulies. Works fine. There's no way it would retain any more or less water than a first-class Gore-Tex set. I'll readily grant you that a Gore-Tex outfit is much more comfortable in certain conditions, but no way is it gonna save your life.
Also, you say that you wouldn't want 40# of extra weight if they had to haul you back into the boat. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but: if you don't tether yourself in and you fall out offshore while any kind of sea state is running, there's just about no way they're pulling you back onboard. All but impossible. This is exactly what happened in the 2022 BR fatality.
This advice is based on experience retrieving four real-life MOBs in emergency situations including one who was unconscious, plus numerous drills. The problem isn’t Gore Tex versus cheap PVC, but that the cheap PVC typically has liners and pockets that don’t drain. You can easily solve that but cutting your own drains, or getting single-membrane PVC. You’re also right that it’s virtually impossible to recover MOBs in a sea state, but most people fall overboard closer to shore in more benign conditions when they aren’t being as careful.
I have a question regarding mould on my Henri Lloyd jacket. I forgot to hang it out a few weeks ago, and when I went to use it yesterday it has mould growing on the cuffs. How do I stop it from continuing to grow please?
I find mould tends to grow more readily in areas like cuffs because the oils from your skin provide a source of nourishment. So I would try to clean the cuffs with some detergent that’s compatible with your jacket (check the label), maybe with a gentle scrub from a brush, and that should help. Mould also hates the sun so I’d leave it in the sun to dry if possible. Hope this helps!
If you think safety is expensive, try an accident! …. Nice eye opener video.
Absolutely! And it may be that not all cheap jackets have the water retention issue, so good to test your gear!
What do arctic fishermen wear?
My completely un-scientific assessment from watching "The Deadliest Catch" causes me to suspect that many just wear cheap single-membrane PVC over insulating layers. I had one of these cheap yellow jackets once and the fact that it wasn't lined would help it drain much more like the expensive single-membrane sailing jacket, with the notable difference being that the sailing jacket is breathable.. Given that, the lined PVC jacket is really the worst of all worlds - not breathable AND retains water!!!
@@SailingTipsCa I think you’re right. Fishermen don’t want to spend all their earnings on expensive clothing. PVC oilskins are waterproof and woollen clothing keeps you warm. Sail an old gaffer and you’ll look the part
@@wibblywobbly1234 The other difference is that Fisherman often bring their own clothing whereby the higher end sailing teams provide matching gear for the crew.
that's quite the eye opener. Do you think the cheaper stuff is ok for rain gear at least?
Sure it keeps the rain off, just need to weigh against the likelihood of falling in the water!
@@SailingTipsCa I was looking at some type of storm gear that can use in case of a natural disaster like flooding which tends to happen quite a bit here so I was weighing my options out there. Pun intended. Any other brands you'd recommend?
@@Glad_I_Could_Help You can use cheap PVC gear safely in deep water as long as it doesn’t have nylon liners to make the gear more comfortable but also retain water. What you want is anything that’s a single membrane, regardless of what it’s made of, whether rubber, PVC backed nylon, or GoreTex. The liner is the problem!
@@SailingTipsCa Thank you so much for the tips! be safe brother!