Funny thing about this match, it happened by accident. I hosted this game and was going to ask starflash to play next week but somehow plague guessed the password and that's how the game started. I picked this map because i thought grit was gonna be weak and would be playable on T1 (T2 tbh). All those roads and the 1 base side having a tough time connecting with the 2 base side would weaken grit. My goal in this game was to go all in on the bottom side, 3 base 1 airport push towards the 2 base side. I didn't believe any push on the top would work because fighter takes to long to fight a defensive stealth. Sadly it did not work. 30:55 Definitely a mistake, that was a wasted grit COP. I think at the time i was thinking i would just let him get SCOP so the fighter/neo would get hit. Overall I think the biggest misplay was that I overbuilt vehicles on my 1 base side. I can defend the bottom side with my 2 base units by shooting over the mountains, but my 1 base side cannot do the same. I should have made more vehicles and a missile on the 2 base side. I just need enough units to make sure my airport wasn't block and just send infantry across the mountain from the 1 base side.
I have absolutely no idea why I was recommended this video which reminds me of sharing a gameboy advanced on the playground many years ago but... I'm here for it.
It really seems like the stealth is the core thing that allows VB to take on Grit. The poor fighter matchup to counter, it being a unit that isn't countered by the AA, not being targetable by arty...it really shifts the entire playing field. This was such an impressive play by Plague!
I Don't think Grit's gonna be allowed in standard play because a good player like Plague had to struggle that much an average player Won't survive that much.
Well, you have to keep in mind izanagi is one of the few high level players that likes playing Grit (and thus, is probably much, much better than average). The better reason is that you either have maps where Grit sucks and dies, or Grit is good and you get oppressive Grit mirrors which are one of the worst match ups in the game (and only gets worse the higher skill level the mirror is). He just does not add that much to the competitive scene at best, and makes it actively worse most of the time. This is at a time when the player base loves to hate on "wall states" too which a Grit pick forces a lot of the time -Kantbei
34:15 No, that Super was definitely a mistake. As long as the Super is ready, Grit has to do this awkward spacing that undermines any aggression he might want to do. And with the tally at 28k to 19k, Grit needs some aggression. If he sits around, more stealth will be built, putting Grit in a worse and worse position.
Grit requires a different approach to play and play against. My brother used to always slow march me with arty walls as kids. Also, comm towers didn't exist in AW2 days. Now Grit's reduced attack can be balanced out SOMEWHAT.
Grit can often struggle, ironically, against the defensive COs. Sturm has too much movement, and the units are hard to actually kill even with buffed up artillery. VB has the deathball counter SCOP. Javier just says no to everything Grit does. As for the other T1s, Hawke can shrug off the damage and burn Grit for not finishing off units, and weakens the frontlines so it's easier to wallbreak, and Grit would absolutely smash Sasha. The problem with all of these matchups is that Grit can often set up around defensive or blocking terrain and make it too costly to push into him, and the Grit mirror is atrociously slow. Worse than Sturm mirror IMO. I still think he might be too powerful to allow in T1. We saw how effective his counterattacks are this match. The stealths, inability to join the 1 base army, and the wide openness and high density of roads and shoals allowed VB to retake control of the game. Well played by both players.
I know Grit wants to built that critical mass of artilleries asap, but I wonder if it is actually a good idea to start by building only artilleries when the opponent is clearly spamming recons. Grit tanks will still destroy recons in two turns and take no damage back. And sure it is VB vs Grit, but if when VB builds his first tank, Grit has already 3 on the field, it looks like a nice position for Grit to start spamming artilleries then. In short, wouldn't it be better to answer recons with tanks, to force the enemy to built tanks that you then answer with artilleries? But anyway, I think this match shows very well that VB would not stand a chance in this match up if it weren't for the stealths, and how poorly designed this unit is. Them not being targetable by anti-airs is just silly. But the fact that they are somewhat not so bad at attacking fighters, the only unit that can target them, is just ridiculous. The fighter vs stealth matchup should be extremely unfavorable for stealths. It should be like anti-air vs copter or even worse than that, because copter can be chipped by all direct land units, and crucially, by infantries.
Regardless of the results, I still think Grit is definitely on the stronger side of the matchup. The ceiling for Grit's power usage is so much higher than anything else in Tier 1.
I am not advance war player, but i like watching the content.(They kinda like a chess maybe that's why i love them). I really hope you can explain what co power at the start of video like mangs. Sometimes i just don't watch advance war content for a long time and forget about their power( esp the new Co) ( Because i periodically delete my watch history and yt stop recommending them to me) I am kinda familiar with CO from advance war 2,but not the new one.
I mean all the t1's have a solid chance against grit other than Sasha. Hawke and VB can force the issue with stealths and Javier 1ct just has an instant 30% defense against indirects and that jumps to 70% with a power (unless im wrong about his indirect defense jumping up when he uses his powers), but Sasha only gets the extra 100 funds per city which i guess can help her build more tech ups like stealths or neos for breaking Grits defenses but her powers are borderline useless against Grit, or just mediocre in the best of circumstances.
Funny thing about this match, it happened by accident. I hosted this game and was going to ask starflash to play next week but somehow plague guessed the password and that's how the game started.
I picked this map because i thought grit was gonna be weak and would be playable on T1 (T2 tbh). All those roads and the 1 base side having a tough time connecting with the 2 base side would weaken grit.
My goal in this game was to go all in on the bottom side, 3 base 1 airport push towards the 2 base side. I didn't believe any push on the top would work because fighter takes to long to fight a defensive stealth. Sadly it did not work.
30:55 Definitely a mistake, that was a wasted grit COP. I think at the time i was thinking i would just let him get SCOP so the fighter/neo would get hit.
Overall I think the biggest misplay was that I overbuilt vehicles on my 1 base side. I can defend the bottom side with my 2 base units by shooting over the mountains, but my 1 base side cannot do the same. I should have made more vehicles and a missile on the 2 base side. I just need enough units to make sure my airport wasn't block and just send infantry across the mountain from the 1 base side.
No APC too you heretic!
I have absolutely no idea why I was recommended this video which reminds me of sharing a gameboy advanced on the playground many years ago but... I'm here for it.
It really seems like the stealth is the core thing that allows VB to take on Grit. The poor fighter matchup to counter, it being a unit that isn't countered by the AA, not being targetable by arty...it really shifts the entire playing field. This was such an impressive play by Plague!
Grit vs Colin, now Grit vs VB?
Grit's my favorite CO. I feel so spoiled!
Strange Md tank at 41:24, but classy. :)
Really glad we're getting Tier 0 COs out of the retirement home to play in Standard. Please get a Sensei vs. Hachi and a Sasha vs. Colin matches!
I Don't think Grit's gonna be allowed in standard play because a good player like Plague had to struggle that much an average player Won't survive that much.
Well, you have to keep in mind izanagi is one of the few high level players that likes playing Grit (and thus, is probably much, much better than average). The better reason is that you either have maps where Grit sucks and dies, or Grit is good and you get oppressive Grit mirrors which are one of the worst match ups in the game (and only gets worse the higher skill level the mirror is). He just does not add that much to the competitive scene at best, and makes it actively worse most of the time. This is at a time when the player base loves to hate on "wall states" too which a Grit pick forces a lot of the time -Kantbei
I can think of a certain Green Earth CO who would love to see Grit in T1…
You seemed to not notice, but Izanagi delayed capturing his neutral base so he could buy Artillery + Infantry the next turn.
34:15 No, that Super was definitely a mistake. As long as the Super is ready, Grit has to do this awkward spacing that undermines any aggression he might want to do.
And with the tally at 28k to 19k, Grit needs some aggression. If he sits around, more stealth will be built, putting Grit in a worse and worse position.
Grit requires a different approach to play and play against. My brother used to always slow march me with arty walls as kids.
Also, comm towers didn't exist in AW2 days. Now Grit's reduced attack can be balanced out SOMEWHAT.
Grit can often struggle, ironically, against the defensive COs. Sturm has too much movement, and the units are hard to actually kill even with buffed up artillery. VB has the deathball counter SCOP. Javier just says no to everything Grit does.
As for the other T1s, Hawke can shrug off the damage and burn Grit for not finishing off units, and weakens the frontlines so it's easier to wallbreak, and Grit would absolutely smash Sasha. The problem with all of these matchups is that Grit can often set up around defensive or blocking terrain and make it too costly to push into him, and the Grit mirror is atrociously slow. Worse than Sturm mirror IMO. I still think he might be too powerful to allow in T1. We saw how effective his counterattacks are this match.
The stealths, inability to join the 1 base army, and the wide openness and high density of roads and shoals allowed VB to retake control of the game. Well played by both players.
I know Grit wants to built that critical mass of artilleries asap, but I wonder if it is actually a good idea to start by building only artilleries when the opponent is clearly spamming recons. Grit tanks will still destroy recons in two turns and take no damage back. And sure it is VB vs Grit, but if when VB builds his first tank, Grit has already 3 on the field, it looks like a nice position for Grit to start spamming artilleries then. In short, wouldn't it be better to answer recons with tanks, to force the enemy to built tanks that you then answer with artilleries?
But anyway, I think this match shows very well that VB would not stand a chance in this match up if it weren't for the stealths, and how poorly designed this unit is. Them not being targetable by anti-airs is just silly. But the fact that they are somewhat not so bad at attacking fighters, the only unit that can target them, is just ridiculous. The fighter vs stealth matchup should be extremely unfavorable for stealths. It should be like anti-air vs copter or even worse than that, because copter can be chipped by all direct land units, and crucially, by infantries.
agree about stealths. tbh I don't think they should be allowed on most standard maps
Stealths chain lol
Regardless of the results, I still think Grit is definitely on the stronger side of the matchup. The ceiling for Grit's power usage is so much higher than anything else in Tier 1.
great match! would love to see Grit in global league std eventually, at least in some maps where he's not OP.
I have no idea what to say about this match. I don't think think I have ever seen a stealth chain used effectively
I am not advance war player, but i like watching the content.(They kinda like a chess maybe that's why i love them).
I really hope you can explain what co power at the start of video like mangs.
Sometimes i just don't watch advance war content for a long time and forget about their power( esp the new Co)
( Because i periodically delete my watch history and yt stop recommending them to me)
I am kinda familiar with CO from advance war 2,but not the new one.
Neat.
I don't know what's more ridiculous, the stealth fighters or Grit's artillery range.
I mean all the t1's have a solid chance against grit other than Sasha. Hawke and VB can force the issue with stealths and Javier 1ct just has an instant 30% defense against indirects and that jumps to 70% with a power (unless im wrong about his indirect defense jumping up when he uses his powers), but Sasha only gets the extra 100 funds per city which i guess can help her build more tech ups like stealths or neos for breaking Grits defenses but her powers are borderline useless against Grit, or just mediocre in the best of circumstances.
53:39 With the state of the game here, I'd really want Black Bombs to be legal!
Is balancing grit as easy as removing his day to day? What tier does he end up in if his only range extension is from power?
I think if you remove his natural +range on indirects he loses all of his personality think that Jake already has that.
quick intro LUL
😅
Boo, no APC start on this map from Vonbolt. Apc is already great here and I think it would be even better vs grit.
why not just spam stealths
I think Grit is banned standard because of the fun aspect more than the power. Grit is poor game play honestly.