Here are the timestamps. Please check out our sponsors to support this podcast. 0:00 - Introduction & sponsor mentions: - InsideTracker: insidetracker.com/lex and use code Lex25 to get 25% off - Ten Thousand: www.tenthousand.cc/ and use code LEX to get 15% off - Four Sigmatic: foursigmatic.com/lex and use code LexPod to get up to 60% off - ExpressVPN: expressvpn.com/lexpod and use code LexPod to get 3 months free 1:53 - The experience of drugs 12:57 - Drug use for grownups 18:40 - Studies on drugs 19:50 - Negative effects of drugs 25:18 - Should all drugs be legalized 30:47 - War on drugs: positive or negative 36:39 - Proper, positive, and misuse of drugs 40:59 - Recovery 47:53 - Drug depiction in movies 51:24 - How the study of drugs changed Carl 53:48 - Formative memories 58:16 - Greatest hip hop artist of all time 1:01:38 - What mind altering drugs teach us 1:05:45 - Advice for young people 1:07:51 - The meaning of life
Cocaine addiction actually destroyed my life years ago as a teenage. I suffered severe depression and mental disorder, got diagnosed with OCD. Not until my mom recommended me to psilocybin mushrooms treatment. Psilocybin treatment saved my life honestly. 6 years totally clean. Much respect to mother nature the great magic shrooms.
I love hearing great life changing stories like this. I want to become a mycologist because honestly mushrooms are the best form of medicine (most especially the psychedelic ones) There are so many people today used magic mushrooms to ween off of SSRI medication- its amazing! Years back i wrote an entire essay about psychedelics. they saved you from death buddy, lets be honest here.
Can you help me with the reliable source 🙏. I'm 56 and have suffered for years with addiction, anxiety and severe ptsd, I got my panic attacks under control myself years ago and they have come back with a vengeance, I'm constantly trying to take full breaths but can't get the full satisfying breath out, it's absolutely crippling me, i live in Germany. I don't know much about these mushrooms. Really need a reliable source!! Can't wait to get them
Thanks for sharing your story. That's rough I sympathize. Save your health save your mind. Life is better without heroin, cocaine, alcohol and cigarettes. And you have more money in your pocket. God bless everyone who has rejected the devils intentions to be addicted to alcohol and cigarettes etc which can cause so much damage to health. I will pray for you all.
As an adult user of drugs, this man is on point all the way. If you have your life in order, the danger of most drugs isn't very high - as long as you are careful. Alcohol is probably the most damaging drug we have access to. We need more conversations like this. I'm speaking from a postion of someone who has access to food, who doesn't worry about bills, who has a good job, who is in a healthy committed relationship, who has a family, who pays bills, who has a home I feel safe and comfortable in, who has stability, no psychological disorders or mental health issues, and who has other physical, social, and artistic outlets...so drug use isn't a problem. Not everyone who uses is in that boat, and addiction and the danger of drugs comes mostly from these areas lacking security. Making drugs illegal has done so much harm and cost so much needless death. Regulate purity. Regulate strength. Standardize dose. Make addiction services readily available. Our thinking is so backwards when it comes to drugs. The only time I've had bad experiences with drugs, and it's mostly alcohol, is when my life is in disarray or when the drugs were impure.
I absolutely loved the intro, "you are a free thinking being, the main character if you will, the hero in a story that's being written by you. So at the end of the day, you are responsible for the choices you make. So choose wisely"
Loved it too. However two obvious questions that haunt me: 1. Who is the character lex is referring too? Is the character itself not a concept? 2. Any thought arrives automatically without any choice. Any choice again is a though which arrives. So where is the choice? Conclusion: there is no agency, no person and thereby the idea of free will is laughable. The end.
It’s not society pay for too why they takes anyway because intertwinement or you have too much money or the person nothing to make their life happy anyway that momentary
About 90% of all motorcycle accidents occur within the first year of obtaining a license, at intersections, under poor traction conditions. Stunned when I learned that avoiding riding after 6 PM within the first year of obtaining my license, being extremely cautious at intersections and just avoiding riding all together under poor road conditions essentially shrank the likelihood of killing myself by upwards of 80%. Education has ALWAYS been the answer.
@@alexs6250 Data is the future my friend, well data and machine learning, actually data, machine learning and neural networks, also Markov chains . . . ah forget it! lol!
@@robertloader9826 Definitely be very careful. I was driving for about 15 years without ever wrecking. But after getting my first motorcycle I put it down 3 times in 2 months. Once was from someone putting oil on a dirt road and it ran down into a puddle on the corner I was taking a little fast.
I remember when I first heard that all drugs should be legalised and regulated and I dismissed it as ridiculous. After going down the rabbit hole I soon realised it is the best option for society and individuals
thats the problem with me an addict speaking about this which ive spent 13 years thinking, actively researching or using trying to speak with a normal person who has only seen clips of the worst of the worst examples which theyll never understand. glad you actually took the time to look into it because people are dieing at a rate never seen before because the drugs are illegal
My 1st year in college I naively picked the war on drugs for a research project. It kind of ruined my academic interests. After looking at its history and current state I can't see the limit of absolute horror for the entire world. The feeling of being cut off from 40 years of extreme doses of morphine just to treat pain cuz a grenade blew a guys legs off in Vietnam is terrifying. His physicians would lose their licenses because obviously he's addicted, that's bad, so chop. Take some Lyrica and after you scream for hours you can get a Vicodin to quiet down and the DEA won't arrest any staff.
If course it is. Clean drugs and also less use. I’m from Germany weed is illegal there and the police can stop you at anytime for no reason they have road side controls where they put every car out it might search you or have you do a drug test. So what happens is like a friend of mine he can basically never do anything or go anywhere because he smoked some weed the day before and now he’s afraid he’s getting stoped and loses his license so what is he doing he’s smoking the next day again because he can’t really go somewhere. If it was legal it might would just be a once a week thing
@@martin8829 the fact weed is illegal but alcohol is legal is absolutely the stupidest thing in the world. One kills millions and is legal and the other has killed Zero.
I have listened multiple times to his argument. Yet there are many flaws, he is ALWAYS sober when making his point. I really need to observe him high to get a real observation.
Joe Rogan has interviewed him and that was one of my favorite episodes of his podcast. I’ve read Carl Hart’s book and he presents strong arguments that support legalization and regulation, things that I (as a libertarian) have always agreed with.
I saw him being interviewed on networks and they focused on slapstick questions around heroin and didnt want to discuss the studies. This is probably why academics do not have conversations in public. Thanks for sharing.
Also people making digs at him saying "the drugs are clearly taking its toll" on his appearance, getting angry over this stuff; not imagining its facing years of resistance would cause you to age, look bad some days, and have had enough with hearing the same tired myths spoken as authoritative fact. Even though you're a leading scientist sitting across from them, talking to plebs on this subject, telling them they're wrong and they still go "Idk im not sold but its interesting"
Academics have conversations in public all the time, but non-academics (and a lot of fellow academics) never read them. They wait to hear the soundbites in snipped podcasts.
@23:57 probably my favorite moment all-time from this pod. The humility to instantly let go of convictions that Lex puts on display is super admirable.
Lex was correct and dr hart was wrong like always and this is coming from a former opiod addict. He constantly downplays the effects of hard drugs and its disgusting frankly. This man is an addict in denial and anyone who cant see it is blind.
Carl is a sweet heart. I spoke to him & Matt Johnson last year(2021) at the New York Academy of Medicine Library and I’m glad I took the opportunity to meet & speak with him.
how can you compare alcohol with drugs where the visual difference between 0.1g and 0.5g can be ignored and that can be fatal. and the changes in your brain's chemistry just from minimal usage can be detrimental to your performance at the least. mdma gets your serotonin receptors to downregulate and when you're off it you will feel depressed. cocaine releases maximum amounts of dopamine, unlike no possible pursuit, and after that you will have a hard time motivating yourself to do things.
100% agree. The government has no business getting involved in how people relate to their consciousness. In the words of Terence McKenna, the government should stand down on this issue.
He's basically just advocating harm reduction and responsible drug use through education and proper regulatory procedures. Which is the most reasonable start to addressing a complex societal dilemma we all face.
This guy is a fool. Sure alcohol is an accepted drug that has plenty of health issues and low/medium dose mushrooms can have benefits etc. But he throws in Heroin and Cocaine like its something we should be able to buy with candy. He's a joke.
@@Jay-xr3sb What do you think would happen if medical-grade cocaine and heroin would be sold in pharmacies over-the-counter to adults? Would it be worse than around 1900, when it was? Would it make it easier or harder for people who currently buy it on the street to stay/get back on their feet?
@@Jay-xr3sb his argument was that heroine and cocaine ARE available like candy to those that can afford it, and it’s being cut with dangerous fillers that are the cause for “the majority of overdoses”. If it were regulated in dosage and purity it would be less dangerous then it already IS.
@@jsmrt6875 but the point is, in the process of eliminating impure drugs to reduce overdoses, he wants to legalise hard drugs to any 'adult'. He cites his age and ability to function in society with these drugs so ignores the overwhelming number of lives these drugs destroy...even if its not via an overdose. The focus should be on prevention, education and clean meds to help taper off, he wants to go the other way. So much flawed logic in his arguments while simply stating the stats don't back the negative effects (without backing up his own claims) Lex didn't challenge anything, he gave a platform for attention and some will be led into a world of pain and regret. To compare a medicinal, calibrated dose of adhd meds for certain brains to function properly (to maintain a life and career) and to compare that to a meth addict that live to find the next high (losing job, family and home in the process) is a joke. Just saying meth is the same as adderall and ignoring the rest is a shocking level of nativity, perhaps he is just trying to sell his book. If you regulated hard drugs and to low clean doses then it will only be the start of an addiction as they chase higher highs. Then you're in the same place. Adha meds, prescription painkillers etc serve a purpose and can be abused. What purpose would a dose of regulated heroin serve?
@@nibblrrr7124 it would introduce a huge part of the population to hard drugs that would otherwise not have taken them. They would then become addicted both physically and mentally. You would have a mass of the population that will want to do nothing but stay high all day. And he wants to focus on the few that could be high functioning that would not have a cleaner reliable source. I'm all for medical clean drugs that could taper an addict off, not offer it out like candy. This Dr can't see past his own world, full of fallacies.
I used drugs, i use drugs, it saved my life and it made my life and the life of the people around me better. It ain't called consciousness expanding for nothing you know. Awareness is at the basis of everything. Ignorance isn't bliss, it only creates chaos and suffering. Thanks guys for the great conversation.
Ignorance is bliss that is a fact. Chaos and suffering is a fact of life. Chaos breeds higher order breeds higher chaos and on and on. I sometime pray I was more ignorant than I am, the ignorant people get to fuck, have fun, be reckless, and they turn out fine. While the more intelligent people generally suffer more although it is usually self inflicted suffering from the mind, anxiety depression etc. ignorance is bliss, and it is a saying for a reason.
So glad we end with thanks for spending your valuable time rather than "wasting" valuable time. I know it's minor but it's such a nicer way to wrap things up! Always love the podcast
I thought Carl's initial discussion with Rogan most recently was by far the most elegant description of dumb, easily manipulated people. Rogies brought it up as a mistake but it should be studied as a diamond among millions of nasty turds that are people hurled at us.
He ain't fibbing. I was strung out on heroin for 7 years. I would go 2 - 3 weeks at a time without pooping. It was horrible. Miserable. At some point it has to come out, and it was very, VERY painful and bloody. I'd intentionally go into withdrawal just so it could come out. But it still hurt. Proud to say I am almost 5 years clean now.
Go you for staying clean! And thanks for sharing your, uh, gastrointestinal experiences. 😅 If I may ask: Did you still eat a normal amount during those 2-3 weeks? In my head, the stereotypical drug abuser barely eats & you can count their ribs, but that might just be b/c I'm thinking of stimulants suppressing appetite, and I have neither experience nor hard data on that...
It depends on the user. I've seen many fat opiate addicts but generally you are right. I only ate less because of the constipation. The fear of it. You become too afraid to eat due too cramps. A few times I got cramps so bad I threw up and passed out in pain. It's like having rocks in your intestines.
Same here, after getting clean for years I went to kratom which acts similarly but is legal affordable and manageable but cause withdraws and the constipation. Man, i remember on H going a month or more
Positive drug story: “Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the Weather.” - Bill Hicks
Have you ever been a regular user of hard drugs though? If he had it his way, you could buy heroin with your coffee, perhaps one day you would after many days of not. Then what?
@@Jay-xr3sb Then my friend wouldn’t have died from getting drugs that were tainted with Fentanyl. Almost all ODs are accidental, not intentional suicide attempts. The accidents occur when you have unregulated supplies with adulterated substances and varying potencies.
@@GriffinBrynjo I don't question that. So addicts that what to taper should be allowed access to clean meds to start the process. The guy is advocating that everyone joins in the addiction, which will destroy more lives even if it reduces the rate of OD due to impure hard drugs. He is full of flawed logic
I had the pleasure of taking a drugs and behavior class and the professor loved Hart’s work and had us read one of his textbooks. Suffice to say, it was incredibly eye opening!
It's difficult to escape that mindset when we live in a society that appears to do everything imaginable to keep us all addicted to fear, stuff, and whatever else the powers that be offer up to us.
Yeah, thats just the AA nonsense. I mean theirs no reason to believe it honestly. Some random guy just came up with that idea just like anyone else,and it does give a negative feeling to the person if they believe that. AA and NA arent very successful as it is, and im not trying to take away from anyone who has gotten sober using it. Anything that has gotten people clean and improved lives im all for, but their are tons of different ways people get clean. Its a personal journey for that specific person.
@@renaissancestatesman NASA is a gov agency. They've solved so much shit. Same applies to lots of shit like electricity generation & distribution, water treatment & sanitation, mega infrastructure programs like the highways, children health & education, funding in science & tech, mega natural disaster management etc. The gov really works well for lots of shit.
@@samsam18200 The military & policy are also frat orders with intreanched interests. They are not a force for good by definition. They also attract some of the worst among us to their ranks.
For me he was THE Best guest so far. Mainly because all he is doing is being honest, looking at facts and ignoring fiction, using common sense and mainly.. He is more qualified than most people to talk about "drugs" BECAUSE HE ACTUALLY HAS EXPERIENCED TAKING THEM. I refuse to listen to people about substance use who have no ACTUAL experience of the subject. Same as I refuse to listen to people who drink alcohol, caffeine and pharmacy drugs but refuse to call them drugs and lable me because I smoke weed, take mdma and physcodelics.
This is one of the most needed conversation to be had today! Thank you Mr. Fridman for all of your work and all the mind blowing quests you have and for the perfect questions you asked! Pure awesomeness man! Love you so much!
@@mikewhite5039 i was referring to the content of the dialogue, I’m in an applied counselling program specializing in addictions and a lot of the material being taught isn’t in step with Dr. Hart’s research.
Love Dr. Hart. I have been saying these things my whole life Albeit not nearly as eloquently. People have always treated me like I'm crazy. I know exactly how he feels and where he is coming from.
“…society’s going to crumble.” Dr. Carl Hart. and yesterday I heard Lex’s interview with Dr. Noam Chomsky saying there is no hope for civilization. I’m on day 120 of “One Year No Beer” and thinking about this makes me want to go buy a six-pack. Good thing it’s 2 in the morning.
@@tmjmccormack The dude occupies one of the most prestigious positions in the scientific community. Born in a crack ghetto and broke away from the orthodox (all of his peers, government, society). Not trying to troll but brooooo.....
My Doctor used to have me on therapeutic doses of either Morphine, or Duragesic Fentanyl for pain ( doctor died), I was high functioning during this period.Since doctors death I now lye in bed, suffering,im no longer a part of society,i suffer, i panic, my life has been reduced to absolute NOTHING! This Doctor is so POINT ON!!
As a long time imbiber of various substances I have a ton of experience with the negative side of societal prejudices that are so indoctrinated that its almost impossible to move past for many even well educated people. I was kicked out of my rehab program at Kaiser for using marijuana without the possibility of readmission and repetitively told that I was just an addict in denial when I refused to buy into their once an addict always an addict narrative. I was ridiculed and dismissed and my medication for opioid abstinence was taken away despite me voluntarily entering the program and paying more than $700. a month for my medical insurance. Unfortunately I chose to leave my AA support group for many of the same reasons like anything less that 100% abstinence from all substances except caffeine and nicotine is considered abuse and you are clearly in denial for thinking anything else. Not the support I'm looking for and I feel we have a long way to go before society becomes willing to consider that maybe legalizing these drugs would be a better approach than the way we deal with them currently.
Been 10 years sober off of alcohol, and having dealt with all of the "organizations" you've named above including NA, I've made my 10 years from day one as MY DECISION and being more successful in keeping from drinking than any group had to offer, kaiser's heavy handed approach to both treatment and taking their tools to build a better life, is not only a recipe for failure, but I believe opens the door for more pain to occupy your time than being a functional substance user, everyone, inpatient treatment is not the move, AA/NA is so outdated in what it offers a generation that has so many people afflicted with social anxiety, that today you more often than not have to shoulder this recovery on your own time and dime. Good luck to all of you.
I had the same experience with Solano County, CA Kaisers... same stupid closed-system non-thinking attitude in the face of empirical evidence to the contrary.
I have been a opiate addict for years. I strongly disagree with this guy. Hard drugs will absolutely ruin your life and is dangerous. He’s claiming if it’s prescribed by a doctor somewhere around the world then must prove his theory lol Heroin and opiates for instance will cause physical dependence and you will need it just like you need water to survive. You will do anything to get money to afford the expensive habit Anything whether it’s stealing or even prostitution. Ofc you’ll have it under control for a little while and do it only on weekends but it doesn’t take long to be physically addicted. But then you’ll be a functional addict but itnwill control you and you are working to just support you’re habit and not be sick. Eventually it will have a hold on you and it will rule your life and you cannot function or hold a job. He’s stating constipation is the worst side effect from heroin!?!! Also people don’t OD most of the time bc mixing downers. He’s ridiculous!! People are ODing left and right bc of fentanyl. You can be a habitual user of pain pills like oxys and have a huge tolerance but then snort a tiny bump of Fentanyl and OD. Also, a lot of people are normal people without trauma who wasn’t addicted to any other drugs prior have become addicted to opiates. Most were prescribed Oxys liberally from their doctor and the components in it caused them physically and mentally addicted. Eventually they cannot get script and the oxys on street are too expensive so they then get heroin and then fentanyl. He’s so full of shit! I am coming from experience and observance from other addicts. I never heard of a casual heroin user. This guy is a dangerous. I didn’t buy into the media or film or television to come to the conclusion that hard drugs (not inc weed) are bad like he claims but I came to that conclusion from REAL LIFE experience. It ruins absolutely everything about you . Financially, emotionally, physically, and the relationships around you. Again he is dangerous. I would NeVER promote recreational use of oxys or any other hard drugs bc it has ruined so many lives.
I really think Lex should interview Mark Laita of Soft White Underbelly. With Lex’s desire to explore and understand the human condition and Mark’s interaction with that, I can’t imagine that interaction being anything less than impactful and intense.
Yeah I would love to see that, Mark has a real understanding of the problem of drugs and homelessness that is rooted in his experience with hundreds of people and their real life environmental stressors. Even if he seems out of place, he's really out there in the street. To me it's a much more real world practical view of the problem instead of essentially saying "it's OK if you legalize and snort it, based on my single personal experience and my book I'm selling"
I havent checked recently but Mark's interwieving techniques put me in pain in the past. However, the pictures, and the fact that he is putting himself out there, and actually does the videos with these people is extremely valuable. Lex and him would be interesting
carl's body language seemed to express discomfort to me, and at times he seemed to me oddly pained speaking. i don't seem to have grasped the situation of the conversation fully, but i appreciate it having taken place. it's obvious carl is speaking with his whole and open heart. i have been listening to these podcasts for weeks now, absorbing loads of inspiration along the way, and also being reminded of my own character in observing my attraction to certain topics and individuals and lack of interest in others. i am deeply grateful for all this nutritious mental food. thank you lex, keep on keepin on my brat.
@Drown the Socialists honestly alcohols one of the most dangerous substances in the world if were being honest so if your charges come from being drunk hopefully itll make you second guess using alcohol in a wreckless manner which i know is hard to navigate because it essentially makes you not care.
Amazing and brave! I never understood the scientists who call themselves experts on addiction, yet have no experience with these substances or addiction. It is through scientists like this that progress in the realm of addiction is possible.
What kind of take is that? You don't have to have used to be a credible expert on addiction. That's like saying an oncologist can't be a real expert on cancer if they haven't been diagnosed with cancer themselves.
@@Artemis.94 it is when unlike an oncologist most addiction pains,withdrawals,etc...are unable to be measured by any means. You're gonna take the word of a crackhead looking for his next fix on how he feels seriously? Horrible analogy
@@Artemis.94 My guess is you have no experience with addiction and as the other person said, your analogy is poor. In addition, I would add a cancer doctor would most likely be more effective if they had cancer themselves. They would know what the experience is like. You cannot choose to get cancer, not would you want to, but no reason you cannot try the drugs you are claiming to be an expert on.
100 years from now i feel like this man will be considered a lone pioneer and voice in a socially tumultuous time on this topic, that will be smoothed out over the decades as society reconcile's our relationship and use of drugs within the framework of society
Until the day I hear, ONE PERSON say, I hated my life until I shot up heroin, Dr. Hart will never be someone I look to for life advice or how to turn my issues around.
Despite ten years of expensive therapy I hated myself and my life until I started taking MDMA with a group of friends in my late 20s the ability it gave me to really connect quite literally saved my life. As a person of now 43, having done shift work in the emergency services for more than 20 years I had forgotten what it was like to be truly well slept and rested until I tried cannabis. I haven't taken heroin but I feel like the story you're seeking is out there.
I was a heroin addict and I would say that it can be pretty dangerous. I would say this guy might be making a mistake on this subject. He is right about almost all drugs, you can use them recreationally, but maybe not that one- stay away from it.
@@bigoshify I was very stubborn and would go to rehab and get out and just do it again. I eventually had to end a lot of relationships with 'bad influences' and that combined with suboxone was what helped me to quit. I know a lot of people who would use subutex or methadon but those things never stop people from using. The suboxone has a blocker in it so you can't feel the opiod effects while using it. Then after enough time went by I started to remember how to be sober again.
I mostly agree with many things Hart says. However, there's no getting around it - he absolutely is downplaying the potential devastating effects of hard drug use. The most dangerous thing about heroin is not constipation (though that and other homeostatic/circadian effects absolutely should be talked about more regarding all substances), nor insomnia the big worry of cocaine. And even the psychedelic casualties, while exaggerated, are obviously not nonexistent. There are frankly, numerous Syd Barret/Brian Wilson cases in the world. Or even tragedies like what happened with Nick Cave's son. And this is coming with someone who is an unabashed proponent of psychedelics, and at least decriminalization of most substances. He's right though about how fucked modernity views drugs/users. Users of any kind are one of the most maligned demographics. And most misunderstood. And he's certainly right about how rather amoral societal institutions profit and thrive due to the war on drugs. Regardless of all of that, it is a blatant overreach and contradiction of (at least in the US) self-evident rights and pursuits of happiness, laid on in the DOI. We have but one life that we know of to live. It's unreasonable for a government entity to not ask but legally control, a conscious individuals bodily choice. Which of course includes the ubiquitous caveat of - as long as you don't harm or impede others. Lastly, I have to say it's unfair to charge The Wire as denigrating drug users, or even holding it under the same scope of exploitation as The Sopranos or the Godfather. The Wire was an almost anthropological mosaic, and personally I thought they made the war on drugs look way worse than the drugs themselves.
longterm opiate use brings on lower testosterone, constipation, and making it harder to pee. even if you abuse this substance with no preexisting conditions it is one of the most forgiving substances in terms of longterm side affects.
Agreed I was cringing in how much he was downplaying these things. As if cocaine isn’t one of the most cardio toxic drugs on the planet even when used responsibly. I honestly was shocked how little he went into the positives of them even, it seemed very surface level and a lot of “look at the data”. So much of his responses felt empty.
@@alexanderiono6931 I agree that he could have gone more into detail on the data - after all, he co-authored dozens of papers on cocaine alone. Genuine question: How do you evaluate whether something is "one of the most cardiotoxic drugs on the planet"? Also, what would be a "responsible" dose and frequency, and how does it compare to other common cardiovascular risk factors? I wouldn't doubt that there are many cases of heart attacks involving recreational cocaine use, both acute and chronic, but I haven't seen the data on cardiovascular symptoms or death in the wild.
@@alexanderiono6931 I found him to be defensive at worst and vague at best. At times I sensed the interviewer was afraid to proceed with questioning. It seemed as though the guest was looking at this as more of an interrogation and less of an intellectual discourse. He showed a lot of disdain for questions he didn't like. His failure to give specific examples when required is a hindrance to learning.
I quit opioids and ecstasy, currently on Suboxone bc I get cold sweats and withdrawals and it’s the only thing keeping me sane. But it has helped with getting a job, my personal relationships with family and overall just really helped me
You do know that if you want to you can not have cold sweats and withdrawals right? You just gotta stop using opiates all together and once you get through the withdrawals (2 weeks) you will be fine. It seems as though you are using the excuse of being scared of being "dope sick" as a reason to continue to use. So many opiate addicts use this excuse "I don't wanna get sick"....you won't die you will be fine just grow a pair and do it. And yes I have done it myself. Take an honest look in the mirror.
I have a question. Why are people so 100% polarised in their ideology? This man has many great points, but calling people idiots that don't agree with him and being so hardline positive about drug use seems very one sided. Critical thinking includes taking a position that doesn't take either side, but considers the holistic reality that always sits somewhere around the middle of a polarising argument. Flag waving 'I have all the answers' is interesting to watch, but requires serious cherry picking to be realistic, as all ideologies do. I enjoyed the interview.
Worst interview yet. Lex even covered for him, like when he asked about heroin. Lex said: “Well I guess you could say the same thing about alcohol.” Whole thing was absurd
@@es4628 hey man. Dude had alot say not everything had to be taken to heart . No need to be offended by others opinions. It's just two people talking . Showing your dissatisfaction for lex or distaste for the guest isn't productive its just unpleasant communication.
This podcast literally REDUCED some intimidating cravings for alcohol I've been having. It made me understand the power relationship, and how much I am just letting the societal definitions of these substances dictate my experience. So much bullshit cleared up/clearing up. 🙏
@@jakeem07 You mean you'll realize how much you liked doing something you like. Addiction requires you to consider the thing you're doing 'detrimental to your life, mood and happiness' it sounds like if you are doing something daily for 15 years you don't think you are addicted by the medical diagnosis for this stuff. You must have distress about your substance use and it causes you to be poor socially and other things to be classed as addicted
But allowing citizens to regulate their own welfare and happiness would give them too much control! The government won’t stand for that so they rationalize defunct laws and policies and more over the amplification of the negative effects rather than focusing on the positives. We live in quite and interesting world :)
He nailed it right on the head when he said “You got many people who are in positions of power faking the funk who are not truly masters of their craft therefore they are truly a disservice to our society which ultimately causes it to crumble” Also the drug thing just like so many other things is just simply business as usual at the expense of someone’s freedom and rights for the purpose of another’s personal gain in power and wealth. Business as usual it’s about power that’s the human game
a person that is 100% healthy emotionally, spiritually and physically is 100% immune from drug addiction no matter the drug. they could do them all at will with no issues whatsoever. the paradox is that person would never use drugs cause he would simply have no need to.
EXACTLY! so when people say you need to be in a good state of mind to have good experiences with drugs.....most people who are in a situation where they are offered drugs or decide to do drugs, it's because they are in a not so good place in their life.
Dr. Hart deserve a much deeper listen than he is normally given. It is great that Dr. Fridman / Lex dedicated time to engage Carl in this discussion. Certainly we can agree that drugs and alcohol serve as multipliers for problems certain individuals encounter. However enforcement of current law is equally problematic. Drug use (accompanied by a level of abuse) will never go away. The question is how society chooses to respond. I have not consumed black market drugs since the 1980s. Driven by my decision to not support clorganizations behind modern drug trade. With that said, I consider most restricted drugs to have lower likelihood of abuse/negative consequences than alcohol.
I got no problem with legalizing all drugs, it's probably the best decision. But the consequences of fentanyl, heroine, and meth I have seen first hand and they are just as destructive and horrible as alcohol, so if/when they are legalized I wouldn't go preaching their use, same as I wouldn't preach drinking alcohol to be beneficial, the probability of people getting benefits that outweigh the negative and long term harm those drugs cause them is statistically very low.
I feel you . Every person I’ve ever talked to about Dr Heart who has dealt with serious addiction in their lives seems to say what you say. No disrespect but I think you’re overlooking something. If all the things Hart wants come to fruition then there wouldn’t be fentanyl in the other drugs. The likely hood of being able to get help as an “addict” when drugs are legal would be completely different. Maybe what you and your loved ones experienced wouldn’t be as negative when the drugs are good and you could get help if you needed it without being shunned
Most of the harm is due to the fact that the drugs are illegal. And ppl get addicted and have to pay for the drugs anyway possible. Legalize all drugs. Let's all get addicted to our drug of choice and finally we can all be happy.
look at how switzerland did it, had a massive heroin problem, legalized and gave free safe clean heroin and a place to use it with associated councilling and help looking for work and housing etc. and now they have no problem! the drugs arent the problem they are usually a symptom, ie. the rat park experiments
@@Breadlywins No disrespect but I think you're overlooking the fact that Carl himself is denying reality. In the first minutes of this talk he himself talks about how drugs can be a problem if you are mentally or physically unbalanced, have unsolved issues, possibly dont have people around you could trust, have trauma. So in other words, about every fucking person on this planet, according to him (!) is at danger of falling into a terrible drug addiction because every fucking body has times in their lives where they are vulnerable and turning to proven psychologically and or physically addictive substances will lure them in for short term release for long term fucking your life up. His whole rat model, not sure if you heard about it, is flawed for many reasons, one being that the context we live in today's society is exactly the context that made some of the rats prone to being heavily addicted to drugs. Carl and everyone who is falling for his self marketing bullshit is denying reality. The reality that people have trauma, that people have problems paying bills, that people have to work jobs they hate to make ends meet, the reality that everyone will have situations where he is not in control and if you start a habit then, it can royally fuck your life forever. If you think you have problems while sober, get shitfaced to a decade and see how your problems turn out a decade later.
As someone with very intimate knowledge and understanding of specifically opiate addiction, I can understand his point of view, but ultimately disagree with his general opinion. I agree that in a near-perfect situation these drugs can be ingested absolutely harmlessly -- and even potentially beneficially -- but the reality is that the vast majority of people don't live in this fantasy ideal world in which he is obviously living. The reality is these drugs absolutely decimate countless lives annually. I've seen it, and as I said I have very personal and intimate experience of it. If we were to be specifically only talking about psilocybin, weed, etc., my opinion would be very different. But the fact that he's lumping in virtually *all* drugs -- heroin, other opiates, and cocaine included -- with those other relatively harmless substances is pretty wild to me. Even as someone who is *incredibly* , incredibly science minded, I really don't care what his "data" is telling him. I've seen the negatives of these hard drugs all too intimately to feel comfortable agreeing with the vast majority of the rhetoric he's spewing. His entire viewpoint seems to hinge on the fact that people in general live in some ideal fantasy world in which they're healthy and responsible enough to partake in these activities, but the reality is that is nowhere close to the world we live in.
Powerful and I'll definitely need to get around to reading his first book. Society and humans have committed many atrocities and it's all kicked under the rug as a horrific accident. The truth is scary and many of us don't want to hear or acknowledge it. Thank you Lex and Dr Carl Hart for advocating for those voices with less merit in society.
If you take cocaine it will slowly destroy you from inside, there is no nice path with some hard drugs like coke. These things will give you something for the moment and take it 10 times back with a bloody credit.
I have listened to this guy a bunch and am always overwhelmed by how much he over simplifies the problem. I hate to say it but he sounds like a drug user who is really smart and thus comes up with a really smart way to justify his drug use
No joke! He's an anomaly for an academic at the literal peak of his discipline. His chair is the most prestigious spot that exists. Comparable roles exist but ranking them would be for Faucci. The fierce judgmental competitiveness with research scientists is disgusting too. Not acting superior to society or politicking to review boards....I don't get it
It is incredibly dangerous and baffling. To claim that the worst part of cocaine is it’s ability to cause sleep issues, while it has been studied many times over for its issues with being severely cardiotoxic is insanely reckless to preach. He seems like he has a half grasp on the whole topic despite being touted as an expert. Really changed my whole opinion on who o thought this guy was.
For sure. If he was preaching that adults should be able to do what they want I'd be somewhat on board. He kind of failsafe to this argument when pressed. But that's not his actual argument. His actual argument sounds alot like when less intelligent drug users say things like "the heroine helps my eyesight'
@@alexanderiono6931 I've been lucky enough to try pharmaceutical MDMA and street stuff. The pure stuff was incredible and I liked the street stuff too. There was no crash, just in and out of that space for 2-3 days. I can imagine something similar with coke, who knows what the hell is in it.
For a scientist Dr. Hart gave a lot of vague answers. In a perfect world all drugs would be legal and everyone would use responsibly to their benefit, but we all know that wouldn’t happen. Legalizing all drugs would almost certainly do more harm than good. It doesn’t matter if doses were capped in units sold in stores, people would still abuse them. He also didn’t mention anything about tolerance which is what usually causes a person’s relationship with a drug to go south. Sure a “free country” sounds good but i wouldnt want to live in chaos. We have enough trouble with alcohol alone.
On Sopranos and tv shows: there is a scene in Breaking Bad when Jessie and his girlfriend doing heroin (I think) and Walter comes in, sees gf choking and doesn't help. It was amazing to me how many people I know who have seen this show haven't noticed that Walter played key role in her death. That it wasn't just that he didn't save her, but she told Jessie that you can't be on your back because of choking risk and they were sleeping in spooning fashion. Then Walter started shaking Jessie to wake him up and that's when girlfriend detached from Jessie and unfurled on her back. To most people this was just the scene of "overdose". To me also - I have noticed this detail only on second watch.
That episode started with Walt putting his newborn to bed, on her side with a rolled up blanket behind her back and saying it’s so she won’t roll on her back and choke on her vomit. Good foreshadowing.
From what i have seen only recently, Lex is what this world desperately needs. With Joe Rogan being so popular it's both refreshing and uplifting to know that there is another layer that has been shed in an effort to derive something truly meaningful.
Lex... Your podcasts are downright amazing. And this guest in particular was a homerun! To get to listen to actual experts on all sorts of topics is nothing short of miraculous. Thank you thank you thank you!! Keep it going!!
Thank god! We need more people like Dr. Hart to come out of the closest about their drug use. I just finished reading his book "Drug use for Grown-ups". I highly recommend it. We also need doctors to believe they're patients and to not refuse to prescribe medications like opiates and benzos. Everyone has their drug of choice and every responsible adult should have the freedom to choose how and when they alter their consciousness.
The sincere problem in approaching clinical trials of psychedelics is that the ingrained fear of them messes with the "environment" parameter of the experience.
That's true. People need to be educated and be able to have a honest conversation with a doctor. I think most people will realize their fear is unfounded if they can talk to a medical professional
Maybe if you're in a clinical setting you will have less fear. People will think "this is medicine, it's safe here there are doctors here to respond to any emergency."
I love the immediate clarification by Dr. Hart that the individual is so commonly overlooked and (somewhat) regardless of enviroment the output vector relative to the (given) drug is entirely dependent as a child class upon the parent that determines and defines the confined space within which the drug is effective. You can be lethargic and sleepy on adderall or modafinil, you can trip badly on substances that typically imply a positive stretch of time (cocaine, mdma, etc.), even alcohol at the wrong time or tenure can spell encouragement or disaster. Set and setting is everything 🙌
my experiences so far have taught me to always stay calm no matter how crazy the situation gets and always choose Love over Evil. One Mind, One Body, One Spirit, One Heart, One Love.
Same here. Problem is it is very difficult for responsible experienced users to speak outloud about it and very easy for the minority of irresponsible ones to tell their story and get sympathy.
This is a very important subject to have conversation about. I'm glad you did this interview with somebody who is experienced compassionate and has the knowledge to help this debated subject.
I’m pro drug but saying that the biggest concern for heroin is constipation and for cocaine is a bad night sleep is just ridiculous, good on you for pushing back on this point Lex, he totally dodged you on the reply. Both These molecules can present great dangers for the user and society, all the more reason to legalize, but let’s not pretend these molecules are not dangerous,highly addictive and quite toxic. I feel like Lex asked really good questions but Carl’s answers were always disappointing. Not sure he’s a good spokesman for the movement to legalize drugs/cognitive liberty/harm reduction.
I actually agree with you, I think he avoids some of the more notorious dangers- cocaine is horrific for your cardiovascular system in high doses. This is a much bigger problem than sleep or eating on coke. Heroin I would say constipation *might* still be the biggest bc with legalization, ODs would happen way less. Heroin isnt actually toxic in the normal sense- no more toxic than morphine.
I disagree. Clean morphine, which is found in nature by the way, actually has no negative effects on the body. If you use needles if course that has it's own issues. But constipation is very real. And they are addictive, though it's is being debated how much is that is the drug and how much is the person. But like he says, where is the evidence? And I am coming from a place of experience. I have damaged my body using heroin. It was impurities in the heroin that did it. If it were legal, that damage wouldn't need an issue for me.
Yes I disagree with you guys as well. After being an addict for years. My main problem with most of these drugs is the persecution from others. The only exception is meth, I found that hard to control. So let's start with the non addictive drugs. Then try low doses of morphine or opium and cocaine. I say this before we go down the path of ultra pura substances and all this synthetic substance
As someone who has struggled with drug abuse disorder, this man has it figured out. AA is great. But it’s s kool-aide drinking contest. Being the star student only does so much…. We’re not all so different. Some of us use to feel less alone. Some of use to feel more alone. I don’t wanna keep overthinking life anymore. I just want to be happy. I want to feel things that aren’t the standard feeling that sobriety brings. Do the drugs don’t let the drugs do you.
In summary, you can use or abuse ANYTHING. If you're in a good space, the substance will enhance yourself. And if not, it will not, or temporarily help.
Intake at a detox facility the demand right now is huge. People begging for help. I see repeat clients and can't deny the deterioration of mental and physical health due to drug use. Suicidal ideation. Hallucinations. Takes a while for the brain to heal from chronic drug use. Some of the information in the podcast is dangerous. Just one use of hard drugs charges the dopamine barometer. All for personal choice. I had to go down the rabbit hole to learn the hard way. It made me stronger because I have been able to recover. It has not been easy. I wouldn't take a redo, but I will be honest. Hard Drug use is a very dark path the take.
It's at high demand because Dr's stopped prescribing to chronic pain patients, deaths are at all time highs. Prohibition doesn't worn time to legalize drugs and save lives that way
What if you caged a diabetic and forced them to not use insulin anymore and than blamed the insulin for being the reason they suddenly start having health problems and mental distress instead of your tyrannical actions ....
The opening monologue by lex made the hairs on the back of back of my neck stand up. Outstanding , thought provoking and hit a personal nerve with me in a positive way.
This argument that drugs should be legalized might be the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. You have no idea how much drug addicts want more drugs. Having cocaine shops would break so many recovering addicts. This guy Carl hart does heroin, cocaine, and mdma. Like y’all don’t think that’s going to influence his opinion. If you don’t then you don’t know what addiction feels like
Bro, drugs (mainly opioids and synthetic opioids) kills 50ish thousand people a year in the US; and that number is double scary considering most people don't use opioids regularly. That is over twice the amount of murders per year in the US, over 3 times the number of gun homicides per year, 17 times the amount of people killed in 9/11. If it was ranked on the list of causes of deaths in the US, it would be around 8ish (but it is lumped into accidental deaths, which is 3rd). And again, most people don't even use opioids regularly. To suggest that the little coverage opioid deaths get in the media is fear mongering, or blown out of proportion is asinine. PS: I'm generally for legalization of drugs; people should be free to do what they want with their bodies as long as they aren't hurting someone else. But I'm in no way blind to the fact that the opioid problem in the US is a big freakin problem.
He never says it’s not a problem, just that the problem isn’t really the drug itself, but all of the factors going into each persons consumption on the drugs, including possible contamination and factors contributing to addiction that lead to so many deaths
@@lukem21 he never said addiction isnt a problem. He literally spends most of his time helping addicts. But blaming that on a certain drug is silly. Like a million people kill themselves every year, you cant blame that on the rope or the gun.
what your not understanding about those deaths is 70% are fentanyl related and a majority of prescription opiods are people actively killing themselves. so essentially we have a accidental overdose problem and a suicide problem. with that being said millions of lives would be saved and it would drastically change the outcomes of peoples lives for the better if these substances were regulated.
Here are the timestamps. Please check out our sponsors to support this podcast.
0:00 - Introduction & sponsor mentions:
- InsideTracker: insidetracker.com/lex and use code Lex25 to get 25% off
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1:53 - The experience of drugs
12:57 - Drug use for grownups
18:40 - Studies on drugs
19:50 - Negative effects of drugs
25:18 - Should all drugs be legalized
30:47 - War on drugs: positive or negative
36:39 - Proper, positive, and misuse of drugs
40:59 - Recovery
47:53 - Drug depiction in movies
51:24 - How the study of drugs changed Carl
53:48 - Formative memories
58:16 - Greatest hip hop artist of all time
1:01:38 - What mind altering drugs teach us
1:05:45 - Advice for young people
1:07:51 - The meaning of life
Hamilton Morris at some point??
If your ever in Chicago holler at me, we can taste test all the drugs lol
All jokes aside this is a wonderfully refreshing interview Lex, thank you very much Good Sir.
Thanks for this upload. You do a great job asking questions that we all want to ask to interesting guests.
😎 Really appreciated listening to Dr. Hart! Thank you for having him on!
Cocaine addiction actually destroyed my life years ago as a teenage. I suffered severe depression and mental disorder, got diagnosed with OCD. Not until my mom recommended me to psilocybin mushrooms treatment. Psilocybin treatment saved my life honestly. 6 years totally clean. Much respect to mother nature the great magic shrooms.
I love hearing great life changing stories like this. I want to become a mycologist because honestly mushrooms are the best form of medicine (most especially the psychedelic ones) There are so many people today used magic mushrooms to ween off of SSRI medication- its amazing! Years back i wrote an entire essay about psychedelics. they saved you from death buddy, lets be honest here.
Can you help me with the reliable source 🙏. I'm 56 and have suffered for years with addiction, anxiety and severe ptsd, I got my panic attacks under control myself years ago and they have come back with a vengeance, I'm constantly trying to take full breaths but can't get the full satisfying breath out, it's absolutely crippling me, i live in Germany. I don't know much about these mushrooms. Really need a reliable source!! Can't wait to get them
YES very sure of mycologist Pedroshrooms. This treatment worked for me. Helped me got rid of my life long depression and BPD.
Thanks for sharing your story. That's rough I sympathize. Save your health save your mind. Life is better without heroin, cocaine, alcohol and cigarettes. And you have more money in your pocket. God bless everyone who has rejected the devils intentions to be addicted to alcohol and cigarettes etc which can cause so much damage to health. I will pray for you all.
Where do I reach this dude? If possible can I find him on Google
As an adult user of drugs, this man is on point all the way. If you have your life in order, the danger of most drugs isn't very high - as long as you are careful. Alcohol is probably the most damaging drug we have access to. We need more conversations like this. I'm speaking from a postion of someone who has access to food, who doesn't worry about bills, who has a good job, who is in a healthy committed relationship, who has a family, who pays bills, who has a home I feel safe and comfortable in, who has stability, no psychological disorders or mental health issues, and who has other physical, social, and artistic outlets...so drug use isn't a problem. Not everyone who uses is in that boat, and addiction and the danger of drugs comes mostly from these areas lacking security. Making drugs illegal has done so much harm and cost so much needless death. Regulate purity. Regulate strength. Standardize dose. Make addiction services readily available. Our thinking is so backwards when it comes to drugs. The only time I've had bad experiences with drugs, and it's mostly alcohol, is when my life is in disarray or when the drugs were impure.
I absolutely loved the intro, "you are a free thinking being, the main character if you will, the hero in a story that's being written by you. So at the end of the day, you are responsible for the choices you make. So choose wisely"
Loved it too.
However two obvious questions that haunt me:
1. Who is the character lex is referring too? Is the character itself not a concept?
2. Any thought arrives automatically without any choice. Any choice again is a though which arrives. So where is the choice?
Conclusion: there is no agency, no person and thereby the idea of free will is laughable.
The end.
It’s not society pay for too why they takes anyway because intertwinement or you have too much money or the person nothing to make their life happy anyway that momentary
@@deedhesi8014 0 hoes
@@kawataufik5098
Everything is momentary
About 90% of all motorcycle accidents occur within the first year of obtaining a license, at intersections, under poor traction conditions. Stunned when I learned that avoiding riding after 6 PM within the first year of obtaining my license, being extremely cautious at intersections and just avoiding riding all together under poor road conditions essentially shrank the likelihood of killing myself by upwards of 80%. Education has ALWAYS been the answer.
That’s a powerful application of data!
@@alexs6250 Data is the future my friend, well data and machine learning, actually data, machine learning and neural networks, also Markov chains . . . ah forget it! lol!
As a newly qualified motorcyclist, I owe you one!!
@@robertloader9826 Definitely be very careful. I was driving for about 15 years without ever wrecking. But after getting my first motorcycle I put it down 3 times in 2 months. Once was from someone putting oil on a dirt road and it ran down into a puddle on the corner I was taking a little fast.
Right!??
I remember when I first heard that all drugs should be legalised and regulated and I dismissed it as ridiculous. After going down the rabbit hole I soon realised it is the best option for society and individuals
thats the problem with me an addict speaking about this which ive spent 13 years thinking, actively researching or using trying to speak with a normal person who has only seen clips of the worst of the worst examples which theyll never understand. glad you actually took the time to look into it because people are dieing at a rate never seen before because the drugs are illegal
My 1st year in college I naively picked the war on drugs for a research project. It kind of ruined my academic interests. After looking at its history and current state I can't see the limit of absolute horror for the entire world. The feeling of being cut off from 40 years of extreme doses of morphine just to treat pain cuz a grenade blew a guys legs off in Vietnam is terrifying. His physicians would lose their licenses because obviously he's addicted, that's bad, so chop. Take some Lyrica and after you scream for hours you can get a Vicodin to quiet down and the DEA won't arrest any staff.
If course it is. Clean drugs and also less use. I’m from Germany weed is illegal there and the police can stop you at anytime for no reason they have road side controls where they put every car out it might search you or have you do a drug test. So what happens is like a friend of mine he can basically never do anything or go anywhere because he smoked some weed the day before and now he’s afraid he’s getting stoped and loses his license so what is he doing he’s smoking the next day again because he can’t really go somewhere. If it was legal it might would just be a once a week thing
Unfortunately a large part of our society isn’t very bright and refuses to look at the other side like you did.
@@martin8829 the fact weed is illegal but alcohol is legal is absolutely the stupidest thing in the world. One kills millions and is legal and the other has killed Zero.
Someone finally giving Carl the interview he deserves. Thank you.
John Stossel did an excellent interview with Dr. Hart years ago.
Joe Rogan did a good interview with him.
@@vickielawson3114 True!
I have listened multiple times to his argument. Yet there are many flaws, he is ALWAYS sober when making his point. I really need to observe him high to get a real observation.
Joe Rogan has interviewed him and that was one of my favorite episodes of his podcast. I’ve read Carl Hart’s book and he presents strong arguments that support legalization and regulation, things that I (as a libertarian) have always agreed with.
I saw him being interviewed on networks and they focused on slapstick questions around heroin and didnt want to discuss the studies. This is probably why academics do not have conversations in public. Thanks for sharing.
Also people making digs at him saying "the drugs are clearly taking its toll" on his appearance, getting angry over this stuff; not imagining its facing years of resistance would cause you to age, look bad some days, and have had enough with hearing the same tired myths spoken as authoritative fact. Even though you're a leading scientist sitting across from them, talking to plebs on this subject, telling them they're wrong and they still go "Idk im not sold but its interesting"
Most people are stupid.
Academics have conversations in public all the time, but non-academics (and a lot of fellow academics) never read them. They wait to hear the soundbites in snipped podcasts.
In some places Academia is pretty much mostly trash and a waste of time.
@Jsin969 whatever school you went to definitely didnt help your spelling
@23:57 probably my favorite moment all-time from this pod. The humility to instantly let go of convictions that Lex puts on display is super admirable.
Lex was correct and dr hart was wrong like always and this is coming from a former opiod addict. He constantly downplays the effects of hard drugs and its disgusting frankly. This man is an addict in denial and anyone who cant see it is blind.
Yeah. I didn't even see that. But when I looked back it moved me deeply. Thanks
One of the best guests you have ever had. He see the “drug issue” with clarity. Buying his book.
Me too. Thanks for your comment; I remember him on Joe rogans show. I was too young to buy his book back then.
Carl is a sweet heart. I spoke to him & Matt Johnson last year(2021) at the New York Academy of Medicine Library and I’m glad I took the opportunity to meet & speak with him.
how can you compare alcohol with drugs where the visual difference between 0.1g and 0.5g can be ignored and that can be fatal.
and the changes in your brain's chemistry just from minimal usage can be detrimental to your performance at the least. mdma gets your serotonin receptors to downregulate and when you're off it you will feel depressed. cocaine releases maximum amounts of dopamine, unlike no possible pursuit, and after that you will have a hard time motivating yourself to do things.
As someone who works in a homeless shelter with individuals in pain, this interview is a breath of fresh air.
People like you should really have your opinion heard in matters like this, people who actually have interactions with struggling people.
@@FvkcTH-camCensorship Yes!
Love this one: "If you want a problem not to be solved... just give it to the military or the cops".
100% agree. The government has no business getting involved in how people relate to their consciousness. In the words of Terence McKenna, the government should stand down on this issue.
Yeah, but do you ever feel weird knowing that the government made some of the drugs you "enlighten" your consciousness with?
@@puddinpop1835 Nah, they should come along for the ride.
He's basically just advocating harm reduction and responsible drug use through education and proper regulatory procedures.
Which is the most reasonable start to addressing a complex societal dilemma we all face.
This guy is a fool. Sure alcohol is an accepted drug that has plenty of health issues and low/medium dose mushrooms can have benefits etc.
But he throws in Heroin and Cocaine like its something we should be able to buy with candy. He's a joke.
@@Jay-xr3sb What do you think would happen if medical-grade cocaine and heroin would be sold in pharmacies over-the-counter to adults?
Would it be worse than around 1900, when it was? Would it make it easier or harder for people who currently buy it on the street to stay/get back on their feet?
@@Jay-xr3sb his argument was that heroine and cocaine ARE available like candy to those that can afford it, and it’s being cut with dangerous fillers that are the cause for “the majority of overdoses”. If it were regulated in dosage and purity it would be less dangerous then it already IS.
@@jsmrt6875 but the point is, in the process of eliminating impure drugs to reduce overdoses, he wants to legalise hard drugs to any 'adult'.
He cites his age and ability to function in society with these drugs so ignores the overwhelming number of lives these drugs destroy...even if its not via an overdose.
The focus should be on prevention, education and clean meds to help taper off, he wants to go the other way.
So much flawed logic in his arguments while simply stating the stats don't back the negative effects (without backing up his own claims)
Lex didn't challenge anything, he gave a platform for attention and some will be led into a world of pain and regret.
To compare a medicinal, calibrated dose of adhd meds for certain brains to function properly (to maintain a life and career) and to compare that to a meth addict that live to find the next high (losing job, family and home in the process) is a joke.
Just saying meth is the same as adderall and ignoring the rest is a shocking level of nativity, perhaps he is just trying to sell his book.
If you regulated hard drugs and to low clean doses then it will only be the start of an addiction as they chase higher highs. Then you're in the same place.
Adha meds, prescription painkillers etc serve a purpose and can be abused. What purpose would a dose of regulated heroin serve?
@@nibblrrr7124 it would introduce a huge part of the population to hard drugs that would otherwise not have taken them. They would then become addicted both physically and mentally.
You would have a mass of the population that will want to do nothing but stay high all day.
And he wants to focus on the few that could be high functioning that would not have a cleaner reliable source.
I'm all for medical clean drugs that could taper an addict off, not offer it out like candy.
This Dr can't see past his own world, full of fallacies.
I used drugs, i use drugs, it saved my life and it made my life and the life of the people around me better. It ain't called consciousness expanding for nothing you know. Awareness is at the basis of everything. Ignorance isn't bliss, it only creates chaos and suffering.
Thanks guys for the great conversation.
There a big difference between pot and mushrooms vs meth and heroin
@@JakeWitmer but there is. Low dose lsd/mushrooms will follow pot.
But meth, crack and heroin is something else.
@@Jay-xr3sb lol . ITS not like drug is Bad if its really addictive .
Ignorance is bliss that is a fact. Chaos and suffering is a fact of life. Chaos breeds higher order breeds higher chaos and on and on.
I sometime pray I was more ignorant than I am, the ignorant people get to fuck, have fun, be reckless, and they turn out fine. While the more intelligent people generally suffer more although it is usually self inflicted suffering from the mind, anxiety depression etc. ignorance is bliss, and it is a saying for a reason.
@@perseenreika3126 Nothing about what they correctly stated implied that at all.
I'd like to add another Zappa quote .. “A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open.”
But if it's too open you don't get anywhere - Random stranger
Plus it actually works just fine open or not 😉
Zappa didn't do drugs interestingly enough...
@@dashcamcalifornia5003 Zappa did a lot of coffe and tobacco
Brilliant!
So glad we end with thanks for spending your valuable time rather than "wasting" valuable time. I know it's minor but it's such a nicer way to wrap things up! Always love the podcast
@@dekroplay5373 It's a way of expressing humility
Who is ending their podcasts like that? They should definitely stop lol
@@Skip2MeLou1 It comes across as insecurity. Glad that Lex stopped saying that.
Indeed
I thought Carl's initial discussion with Rogan most recently was by far the most elegant description of dumb, easily manipulated people. Rogies brought it up as a mistake but it should be studied as a diamond among millions of nasty turds that are people hurled at us.
He ain't fibbing. I was strung out on heroin for 7 years. I would go 2 - 3 weeks at a time without pooping. It was horrible. Miserable. At some point it has to come out, and it was very, VERY painful and bloody. I'd intentionally go into withdrawal just so it could come out. But it still hurt. Proud to say I am almost 5 years clean now.
Go you for staying clean! And thanks for sharing your, uh, gastrointestinal experiences. 😅
If I may ask: Did you still eat a normal amount during those 2-3 weeks?
In my head, the stereotypical drug abuser barely eats & you can count their ribs, but that might just be b/c I'm thinking of stimulants suppressing appetite, and I have neither experience nor hard data on that...
It depends on the user. I've seen many fat opiate addicts but generally you are right. I only ate less because of the constipation. The fear of it. You become too afraid to eat due too cramps. A few times I got cramps so bad I threw up and passed out in pain. It's like having rocks in your intestines.
respect from a lifelong opiate addict!
Same here, after getting clean for years I went to kratom which acts similarly but is legal affordable and manageable but cause withdraws and the constipation. Man, i remember on H going a month or more
@@DYLWhk careful with tramadol that thing is no joke
Edit for incorrect spelling
Positive drug story:
“Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the Weather.”
- Bill Hicks
reeeeeeeeeeaaaly fuckn high on drugs...
Perfect!
BRAVO!
Wow
Read Carl's book the week it came out. Eye opening.
THIS MATTERS
Thnx i didnt know he had a book!
I’m currently reading it now, it reads like a movie. Really recommend it 👌🏾
third eye opening
What's so eye-opening about it? The notion that you can consume drugs responsibly as an adult? Is that a somewhat revolutionary idea? 😄
I watched this whole vid without feeling like I need to get high.
Me too!
Have you ever been a regular user of hard drugs though?
If he had it his way, you could buy heroin with your coffee, perhaps one day you would after many days of not.
Then what?
I watched the whole video absolutely stoked on the idea that I might be able to buy some cocaine from a store. Or heroin.
@@Jay-xr3sb Then my friend wouldn’t have died from getting drugs that were tainted with Fentanyl. Almost all ODs are accidental, not intentional suicide attempts. The accidents occur when you have unregulated supplies with adulterated substances and varying potencies.
@@GriffinBrynjo I don't question that. So addicts that what to taper should be allowed access to clean meds to start the process.
The guy is advocating that everyone joins in the addiction, which will destroy more lives even if it reduces the rate of OD due to impure hard drugs.
He is full of flawed logic
I had the pleasure of taking a drugs and behavior class and the professor loved Hart’s work and had us read one of his textbooks. Suffice to say, it was incredibly eye opening!
Once an addict always an addict. They told me that alot, I get the point - always be weary - but it sounds so damn hopeless and it's just not true
It's difficult to escape that mindset when we live in a society that appears to do everything imaginable to keep us all addicted to fear, stuff, and whatever else the powers that be offer up to us.
Yeah, thats just the AA nonsense. I mean theirs no reason to believe it honestly. Some random guy just came up with that idea just like anyone else,and it does give a negative feeling to the person if they believe that. AA and NA arent very successful as it is, and im not trying to take away from anyone who has gotten sober using it. Anything that has gotten people clean and improved lives im all for, but their are tons of different ways people get clean. Its a personal journey for that specific person.
"If you want a problem not to be solved, just give it to the military or the cops" is very relevant right now.
give it to politicians is more accurate. military and police are just pawns to the political elite.
*Let's go, Brandon!*
Essentially give it to government.
@@renaissancestatesman
NASA is a gov agency. They've solved so much shit.
Same applies to lots of shit like electricity generation & distribution, water treatment & sanitation, mega infrastructure programs like the highways, children health & education, funding in science & tech, mega natural disaster management etc.
The gov really works well for lots of shit.
@@samsam18200
The military & policy are also frat orders with intreanched interests.
They are not a force for good by definition.
They also attract some of the worst among us to their ranks.
For me he was THE Best guest so far.
Mainly because all he is doing is being honest, looking at facts and ignoring fiction, using common sense and mainly.. He is more qualified than most people to talk about "drugs" BECAUSE HE ACTUALLY HAS EXPERIENCED TAKING THEM.
I refuse to listen to people about substance use who have no ACTUAL experience of the subject.
Same as I refuse to listen to people who drink alcohol, caffeine and pharmacy drugs but refuse to call them drugs and lable me because I smoke weed, take mdma and physcodelics.
This is one of the most needed conversation to be had today! Thank you Mr. Fridman for all of your work and all the mind blowing quests you have and for the perfect questions you asked! Pure awesomeness man! Love you so much!
My first thoughts listening to Dr. Hart were, “HUH??!” But at around 20 mins and on everything became very clear. Fantastic work. 💛💛💛
It's the dreads. Definitely not, you know, the color green, not the best fashion choice. He's a f*ckin Saint
@@mikewhite5039 i was referring to the content of the dialogue, I’m in an applied counselling program specializing in addictions and a lot of the material being taught isn’t in step with Dr. Hart’s research.
Love your podcasts bro. Lex appreciate your work... Knowledge is power and you deliver a ton of it with your guests.
Love Dr. Hart. I have been saying these things my whole life Albeit not nearly as eloquently. People have always treated me like I'm crazy. I know exactly how he feels and where he is coming from.
Yeah. Same here. The drug war is a shit show.
Are you a medical doctor as well?
I like when lex isn't exactly the subject matter expert, he accepts criticism and learns so quickly
Beautiful work with Dr. Carl on this Lex, simply splendid interview. Let's keep the conversation goin!
“…society’s going to crumble.” Dr. Carl Hart. and yesterday I heard Lex’s interview with Dr. Noam Chomsky saying there is no hope for civilization. I’m on day 120 of “One Year No Beer” and thinking about this makes me want to go buy a six-pack. Good thing it’s 2 in the morning.
Love it couldn't have picked a better person to interview
The podcast I’ve been waiting for
Same, knew this episode was imminent. Very pleased
What’s the biggest negative effect of Heroin? “Constipation.” Whatever. Give me a break. Hollow interview.
@@tmjmccormack The dude occupies one of the most prestigious positions in the scientific community. Born in a crack ghetto and broke away from the orthodox (all of his peers, government, society). Not trying to troll but brooooo.....
@@mikewhite5039 exactly
I wish there were more places I felt safe discussing my drug use. We need to start a movement! The war on drugs must end!
My Doctor used to have me on therapeutic doses of either Morphine, or Duragesic Fentanyl for pain ( doctor died), I was high functioning during this period.Since doctors death I now lye in bed, suffering,im no longer a part of society,i suffer, i panic, my life has been reduced to absolute NOTHING! This Doctor is so POINT ON!!
Seems like you’re addicted to opioids
Still one of my favorite episodes. Knowledge is power! Thank you for you Lex.
As a long time imbiber of various substances I have a ton of experience with the negative side of societal prejudices that are so indoctrinated that its almost impossible to move past for many even well educated people. I was kicked out of my rehab program at Kaiser for using marijuana without the possibility of readmission and repetitively told that I was just an addict in denial when I refused to buy into their once an addict always an addict narrative. I was ridiculed and dismissed and my medication for opioid abstinence was taken away despite me voluntarily entering the program and paying more than $700. a month for my medical insurance. Unfortunately I chose to leave my AA support group for many of the same reasons like anything less that 100% abstinence from all substances except caffeine and nicotine is considered abuse and you are clearly in denial for thinking anything else. Not the support I'm looking for and I feel we have a long way to go before society becomes willing to consider that maybe legalizing these drugs would be a better approach than the way we deal with them currently.
At least we have the internet bro.
Been 10 years sober off of alcohol, and having dealt with all of the "organizations" you've named above including NA, I've made my 10 years from day one as MY DECISION and being more successful in keeping from drinking than any group had to offer, kaiser's heavy handed approach to both treatment and taking their tools to build a better life, is not only a recipe for failure, but I believe opens the door for more pain to occupy your time than being a functional substance user, everyone, inpatient treatment is not the move, AA/NA is so outdated in what it offers a generation that has so many people afflicted with social anxiety, that today you more often than not have to shoulder this recovery on your own time and dime. Good luck to all of you.
Being hated and demonized doesn't seem to be helpful when someone is trying to deal with a problem.
I had the same experience with Solano County, CA Kaisers... same stupid closed-system non-thinking attitude in the face of empirical evidence to the contrary.
@@freebased1780 I did it on my own. Kaiser hurt me worse than the booze.
Drugs are not addicting by nature. Relief from pain is what's addictive
Love Carl Hart’s research, thanks for having him on.
Did he find out they they don’t lace alcohol with fentanyl or this is still mystery for him 😅
I have been a opiate addict for years. I strongly disagree with this guy. Hard drugs will absolutely ruin your life and is dangerous. He’s claiming if it’s prescribed by a doctor somewhere around the world then must prove his theory lol Heroin and opiates for instance will cause physical dependence and you will need it just like you need water to survive. You will do anything to get money to afford the expensive habit Anything whether it’s stealing or even prostitution. Ofc you’ll have it under control for a little while and do it only on weekends but it doesn’t take long to be physically addicted. But then you’ll be a functional addict but itnwill control you and you are working to just support you’re habit and not be sick. Eventually it will have a hold on you and it will rule your life and you cannot function or hold a job. He’s stating constipation is the worst side effect from heroin!?!! Also people don’t OD most of the time bc mixing downers. He’s ridiculous!! People are ODing left and right bc of fentanyl. You can be a habitual user of pain pills like oxys and have a huge tolerance but then snort a tiny bump of Fentanyl and OD. Also, a lot of people are normal people without trauma who wasn’t addicted to any other drugs prior have become addicted to opiates. Most were prescribed Oxys liberally from their doctor and the components in it caused them physically and mentally addicted. Eventually they cannot get script and the oxys on street are too expensive so they then get heroin and then fentanyl. He’s so full of shit! I am coming from experience and observance from other addicts. I never heard of a casual heroin user. This guy is a dangerous. I didn’t buy into the media or film or television to come to the conclusion that hard drugs (not inc weed) are bad like he claims but I came to that conclusion from REAL LIFE experience. It ruins absolutely everything about you . Financially, emotionally, physically, and the relationships around you. Again he is dangerous. I would NeVER promote recreational use of oxys or any other hard drugs bc it has ruined so many lives.
l am a 51 year old massive hard and soft narcotic user...of 40years experience. I have found it tremendously rewarding.
Glad to hear drugs have improved your life. We need to hear more stories like yours. Please find a way to share it!!!
I really think Lex should interview Mark Laita of Soft White Underbelly. With Lex’s desire to explore and understand the human condition and Mark’s interaction with that, I can’t imagine that interaction being anything less than impactful and intense.
Omg that would be brilliant
Yeah I would love to see that, Mark has a real understanding of the problem of drugs and homelessness that is rooted in his experience with hundreds of people and their real life environmental stressors. Even if he seems out of place, he's really out there in the street. To me it's a much more real world practical view of the problem instead of essentially saying "it's OK if you legalize and snort it, based on my single personal experience and my book I'm selling"
I havent checked recently but Mark's interwieving techniques put me in pain in the past. However, the pictures, and the fact that he is putting himself out there, and actually does the videos with these people is extremely valuable. Lex and him would be interesting
He gave a great lecture at the Psychedelic Science Summit in Austin back in 2019.. Definitely excited to hear this interview.
"What evidence do you have on that bullshit, yeah , because it's none" Loved it at 24:01
Lex. Thank you for this. Bringing Dr Hart on means the world to me. Your interactions with him were fascinating.
Me listening to Carl Hart speak is like a choir boy listening to the Preacher. I couldn't agree more, on all points. Well done Carl
Ok, now go do heroin
carl's body language seemed to express discomfort to me, and at times he seemed to me oddly pained speaking. i don't seem to have grasped the situation of the conversation fully, but i appreciate it having taken place. it's obvious carl is speaking with his whole and open heart.
i have been listening to these podcasts for weeks now, absorbing loads of inspiration along the way, and also being reminded of my own character in observing my attraction to certain topics and individuals and lack of interest in others.
i am deeply grateful for all this nutritious mental food. thank you lex, keep on keepin on my brat.
He's probably suffering withdrawal
@@shoutatthesky 🤡
@@WestCoastCultured Lighten up bro! I'm just being a silly goose! :)
@@shoutatthesky so what? I've had tobacco withdrawal and nobody gives a shit.
I wish it was longer, there's so much more to ask. Good one!
@Drown the Socialists honestly alcohols one of the most dangerous substances in the world if were being honest so if your charges come from being drunk hopefully itll make you second guess using alcohol in a wreckless manner which i know is hard to navigate because it essentially makes you not care.
@Drown the Socialists good for you fam
He was on Rogan a while back.
Amazing and brave! I never understood the scientists who call themselves experts on addiction, yet have no experience with these substances or addiction. It is through scientists like this that progress in the realm of addiction is possible.
What kind of take is that? You don't have to have used to be a credible expert on addiction. That's like saying an oncologist can't be a real expert on cancer if they haven't been diagnosed with cancer themselves.
@@Artemis.94 it is when unlike an oncologist most addiction pains,withdrawals,etc...are unable to be measured by any means. You're gonna take the word of a crackhead looking for his next fix on how he feels seriously? Horrible analogy
@@Artemis.94 My guess is you have no experience with addiction and as the other person said, your analogy is poor. In addition, I would add a cancer doctor would most likely be more effective if they had cancer themselves. They would know what the experience is like. You cannot choose to get cancer, not would you want to, but no reason you cannot try the drugs you are claiming to be an expert on.
@@Artemis.94 it seems to be fairly true for drugs, though. doctors often don't know jack shit about drugs, legal or illegal. it's pathetic.
@@lisao6928 as someone who's used a lot of substances, you are 100% correct. I basically always know more than the doctor I'm dealing with. ALWAYS.
This is a very important discussion. Please have him on again for a longer conversation.
100 years from now i feel like this man will be considered a lone pioneer and voice in a socially tumultuous time on this topic, that will be smoothed out over the decades as society reconcile's our relationship and use of drugs within the framework of society
Until the day I hear, ONE PERSON say, I hated my life until I shot up heroin, Dr. Hart will never be someone I look to for life advice or how to turn my issues around.
Despite ten years of expensive therapy I hated myself and my life until I started taking MDMA with a group of friends in my late 20s the ability it gave me to really connect quite literally saved my life.
As a person of now 43, having done shift work in the emergency services for more than 20 years I had forgotten what it was like to be truly well slept and rested until I tried cannabis.
I haven't taken heroin but I feel like the story you're seeking is out there.
@@Alice_Walker shift work. I hate it as well. If you were not forced to work an unnatural schedule, would your experience be different?
I was a heroin addict and I would say that it can be pretty dangerous. I would say this guy might be making a mistake on this subject. He is right about almost all drugs, you can use them recreationally, but maybe not that one- stay away from it.
How'd you get off it?
@@bigoshify I was very stubborn and would go to rehab and get out and just do it again. I eventually had to end a lot of relationships with 'bad influences' and that combined with suboxone was what helped me to quit. I know a lot of people who would use subutex or methadon but those things never stop people from using. The suboxone has a blocker in it so you can't feel the opiod effects while using it. Then after enough time went by I started to remember how to be sober again.
@@kevinburch4932 I know how it is. I took my 2nd sublocade shot today..
@@bigoshify that's great. I heard good things about those. Any bad reactions?
@@kevinburch4932 Nope. So far so good!
I mostly agree with many things Hart says. However, there's no getting around it - he absolutely is downplaying the potential devastating effects of hard drug use. The most dangerous thing about heroin is not constipation (though that and other homeostatic/circadian effects absolutely should be talked about more regarding all substances), nor insomnia the big worry of cocaine. And even the psychedelic casualties, while exaggerated, are obviously not nonexistent. There are frankly, numerous Syd Barret/Brian Wilson cases in the world. Or even tragedies like what happened with Nick Cave's son. And this is coming with someone who is an unabashed proponent of psychedelics, and at least decriminalization of most substances.
He's right though about how fucked modernity views drugs/users. Users of any kind are one of the most maligned demographics. And most misunderstood. And he's certainly right about how rather amoral societal institutions profit and thrive due to the war on drugs. Regardless of all of that, it is a blatant overreach and contradiction of (at least in the US) self-evident rights and pursuits of happiness, laid on in the DOI. We have but one life that we know of to live. It's unreasonable for a government entity to not ask but legally control, a conscious individuals bodily choice. Which of course includes the ubiquitous caveat of - as long as you don't harm or impede others.
Lastly, I have to say it's unfair to charge The Wire as denigrating drug users, or even holding it under the same scope of exploitation as The Sopranos or the Godfather. The Wire was an almost anthropological mosaic, and personally I thought they made the war on drugs look way worse than the drugs themselves.
longterm opiate use brings on lower testosterone, constipation, and making it harder to pee. even if you abuse this substance with no preexisting conditions it is one of the most forgiving substances in terms of longterm side affects.
Agreed I was cringing in how much he was downplaying these things. As if cocaine isn’t one of the most cardio toxic drugs on the planet even when used responsibly. I honestly was shocked how little he went into the positives of them even, it seemed very surface level and a lot of “look at the data”. So much of his responses felt empty.
@@alexanderiono6931 I agree that he could have gone more into detail on the data - after all, he co-authored dozens of papers on cocaine alone. Genuine question: How do you evaluate whether something is "one of the most cardiotoxic drugs on the planet"?
Also, what would be a "responsible" dose and frequency, and how does it compare to other common cardiovascular risk factors?
I wouldn't doubt that there are many cases of heart attacks involving recreational cocaine use, both acute and chronic, but I haven't seen the data on cardiovascular symptoms or death in the wild.
@@alexanderiono6931 May I ask how many years of research you have undergone to be qualified to say that he is downplaying the negative effects?
@@alexanderiono6931 I found him to be defensive at worst and vague at best. At times I sensed the interviewer was afraid to proceed with questioning. It seemed as though the guest was looking at this as more of an interrogation and less of an intellectual discourse. He showed a lot of disdain for questions he didn't like. His failure to give specific examples when required is a hindrance to learning.
I quit opioids and ecstasy, currently on Suboxone bc I get cold sweats and withdrawals and it’s the only thing keeping me sane. But it has helped with getting a job, my personal relationships with family and overall just really helped me
You do know that if you want to you can not have cold sweats and withdrawals right? You just gotta stop using opiates all together and once you get through the withdrawals (2 weeks) you will be fine. It seems as though you are using the excuse of being scared of being "dope sick" as a reason to continue to use. So many opiate addicts use this excuse "I don't wanna get sick"....you won't die you will be fine just grow a pair and do it. And yes I have done it myself. Take an honest look in the mirror.
How did u find a clinic
@@screwju-icethey need to make that easier. Fuck the methadone clinic cartel!!!
I have a question. Why are people so 100% polarised in their ideology? This man has many great points, but calling people idiots that don't agree with him and being so hardline positive about drug use seems very one sided. Critical thinking includes taking a position that doesn't take either side, but considers the holistic reality that always sits somewhere around the middle of a polarising argument. Flag waving 'I have all the answers' is interesting to watch, but requires serious cherry picking to be realistic, as all ideologies do. I enjoyed the interview.
one of the realest niggas to appear on this show, telling it like it is...
Every hard question asked by Lex was unanswered by this man. Lex, I've never heard you cave to someone before like you did here. :(
Worst interview yet. Lex even covered for him, like when he asked about heroin. Lex said: “Well I guess you could say the same thing about alcohol.” Whole thing was absurd
@@es4628 hey man. Dude had alot say not everything had to be taken to heart . No need to be offended by others opinions. It's just two people talking . Showing your dissatisfaction for lex or distaste for the guest isn't productive its just unpleasant communication.
@@ThePiedcool Cool story. The guy is promoting drugs. Very dumb to promote him, and suppress others. You are a fool Henson. A fool.
The reality of addiction doesnt seem to be part of this convo.
Nobody cares about your dea nonsense anymore.
This podcast literally REDUCED some intimidating cravings for alcohol I've been having.
It made me understand the power relationship, and how much I am just letting the societal definitions of these substances dictate my experience.
So much bullshit cleared up/clearing up.
🙏
That's great, thanks for sharing.
“Fuck your feelings what does the data say!”
“I feel the data”
24:33
wanna feel my data?
Totally agree with this guy, I’ve been doing cocaine daily for over 15 years and never gotten addicted.
@@jakeem07 You mean you'll realize how much you liked doing something you like. Addiction requires you to consider the thing you're doing 'detrimental to your life, mood and happiness' it sounds like if you are doing something daily for 15 years you don't think you are addicted by the medical diagnosis for this stuff. You must have distress about your substance use and it causes you to be poor socially and other things to be classed as addicted
lol
Lololol
Bruh what lol
Who gives a fuck about addiction. I'm addicted to tobacco and nobody cares. Except me. I care about my health. As it should be.
But allowing citizens to regulate their own welfare and happiness would give them too much control! The government won’t stand for that so they rationalize defunct laws and policies and more over the amplification of the negative effects rather than focusing on the positives. We live in quite and interesting world :)
He nailed it right on the head when he said “You got many people who are in positions of power faking the funk who are not truly masters of their craft therefore they are truly a disservice to our society which ultimately causes it to crumble” Also the drug thing just like so many other things is just simply business as usual at the expense of someone’s freedom and rights for the purpose of another’s personal gain in power and wealth. Business as usual it’s about power that’s the human game
Fund a small war ? War on drugs !
a person that is 100% healthy emotionally, spiritually and physically is 100% immune from drug addiction no matter the drug. they could do them all at will with no issues whatsoever. the paradox is that person would never use drugs cause he would simply have no need to.
EXACTLY! so when people say you need to be in a good state of mind to have good experiences with drugs.....most people who are in a situation where they are offered drugs or decide to do drugs, it's because they are in a not so good place in their life.
That's bogus! Drugs improve life. Just like sex. May not need it but it makes life better.
Dr. Hart deserve a much deeper listen than he is normally given.
It is great that Dr. Fridman / Lex dedicated time to engage Carl in this discussion.
Certainly we can agree that drugs and alcohol serve as multipliers for problems certain individuals encounter. However enforcement of current law is equally problematic.
Drug use (accompanied by a level of abuse) will never go away. The question is how society chooses to respond.
I have not consumed black market drugs since the 1980s. Driven by my decision to not support clorganizations behind modern drug trade.
With that said, I consider most restricted drugs to have lower likelihood of abuse/negative consequences than alcohol.
Lex is among the top 5 interviewers in the world and his podcasts have a completely unique feel to them. It's so good.
I got no problem with legalizing all drugs, it's probably the best decision. But the consequences of fentanyl, heroine, and meth I have seen first hand and they are just as destructive and horrible as alcohol, so if/when they are legalized I wouldn't go preaching their use, same as I wouldn't preach drinking alcohol to be beneficial, the probability of people getting benefits that outweigh the negative and long term harm those drugs cause them is statistically very low.
I feel you . Every person I’ve ever talked to about Dr Heart who has dealt with serious addiction in their lives seems to say what you say. No disrespect but I think you’re overlooking something. If all the things Hart wants come to fruition then there wouldn’t be fentanyl in the other drugs. The likely hood of being able to get help as an “addict” when drugs are legal would be completely different. Maybe what you and your loved ones experienced wouldn’t be as negative when the drugs are good and you could get help if you needed it without being shunned
kids must be protected, many lack parental guidance and jump blindly to drugs, adults can of course decide for themselves but not kids
Most of the harm is due to the fact that the drugs are illegal. And ppl get addicted and have to pay for the drugs anyway possible. Legalize all drugs. Let's all get addicted to our drug of choice and finally we can all be happy.
look at how switzerland did it, had a massive heroin problem, legalized and gave free safe clean heroin and a place to use it with associated councilling and help looking for work and housing etc. and now they have no problem! the drugs arent the problem they are usually a symptom, ie. the rat park experiments
@@Breadlywins No disrespect but I think you're overlooking the fact that Carl himself is denying reality. In the first minutes of this talk he himself talks about how drugs can be a problem if you are mentally or physically unbalanced, have unsolved issues, possibly dont have people around you could trust, have trauma. So in other words, about every fucking person on this planet, according to him (!) is at danger of falling into a terrible drug addiction because every fucking body has times in their lives where they are vulnerable and turning to proven psychologically and or physically addictive substances will lure them in for short term release for long term fucking your life up. His whole rat model, not sure if you heard about it, is flawed for many reasons, one being that the context we live in today's society is exactly the context that made some of the rats prone to being heavily addicted to drugs. Carl and everyone who is falling for his self marketing bullshit is denying reality. The reality that people have trauma, that people have problems paying bills, that people have to work jobs they hate to make ends meet, the reality that everyone will have situations where he is not in control and if you start a habit then, it can royally fuck your life forever. If you think you have problems while sober, get shitfaced to a decade and see how your problems turn out a decade later.
End the war on drugs!
As someone with very intimate knowledge and understanding of specifically opiate addiction, I can understand his point of view, but ultimately disagree with his general opinion.
I agree that in a near-perfect situation these drugs can be ingested absolutely harmlessly -- and even potentially beneficially -- but the reality is that the vast majority of people don't live in this fantasy ideal world in which he is obviously living. The reality is these drugs absolutely decimate countless lives annually. I've seen it, and as I said I have very personal and intimate experience of it.
If we were to be specifically only talking about psilocybin, weed, etc., my opinion would be very different. But the fact that he's lumping in virtually *all* drugs -- heroin, other opiates, and cocaine included -- with those other relatively harmless substances is pretty wild to me. Even as someone who is *incredibly* , incredibly science minded, I really don't care what his "data" is telling him. I've seen the negatives of these hard drugs all too intimately to feel comfortable agreeing with the vast majority of the rhetoric he's spewing.
His entire viewpoint seems to hinge on the fact that people in general live in some ideal fantasy world in which they're healthy and responsible enough to partake in these activities, but the reality is that is nowhere close to the world we live in.
Powerful and I'll definitely need to get around to reading his first book. Society and humans have committed many atrocities and it's all kicked under the rug as a horrific accident. The truth is scary and many of us don't want to hear or acknowledge it. Thank you Lex and Dr Carl Hart for advocating for those voices with less merit in society.
If you take cocaine it will slowly destroy you from inside, there is no nice path with some hard drugs like coke. These things will give you something for the moment and take it 10 times back with a bloody credit.
Thank you for your anecdote.
I have listened to this guy a bunch and am always overwhelmed by how much he over simplifies the problem. I hate to say it but he sounds like a drug user who is really smart and thus comes up with a really smart way to justify his drug use
No joke! He's an anomaly for an academic at the literal peak of his discipline. His chair is the most prestigious spot that exists. Comparable roles exist but ranking them would be for Faucci. The fierce judgmental competitiveness with research scientists is disgusting too. Not acting superior to society or politicking to review boards....I don't get it
It is incredibly dangerous and baffling. To claim that the worst part of cocaine is it’s ability to cause sleep issues, while it has been studied many times over for its issues with being severely cardiotoxic is insanely reckless to preach. He seems like he has a half grasp on the whole topic despite being touted as an expert. Really changed my whole opinion on who o thought this guy was.
For sure. If he was preaching that adults should be able to do what they want I'd be somewhat on board. He kind of failsafe to this argument when pressed. But that's not his actual argument. His actual argument sounds alot like when less intelligent drug users say things like "the heroine helps my eyesight'
@@alexanderiono6931 I've been lucky enough to try pharmaceutical MDMA and street stuff. The pure stuff was incredible and I liked the street stuff too. There was no crash, just in and out of that space for 2-3 days. I can imagine something similar with coke, who knows what the hell is in it.
For a scientist Dr. Hart gave a lot of vague answers. In a perfect world all drugs would be legal and everyone would use responsibly to their benefit, but we all know that wouldn’t happen. Legalizing all drugs would almost certainly do more harm than good. It doesn’t matter if doses were capped in units sold in stores, people would still abuse them. He also didn’t mention anything about tolerance which is what usually causes a person’s relationship with a drug to go south. Sure a “free country” sounds good but i wouldnt want to live in chaos. We have enough trouble with alcohol alone.
On Sopranos and tv shows: there is a scene in Breaking Bad when Jessie and his girlfriend doing heroin (I think) and Walter comes in, sees gf choking and doesn't help. It was amazing to me how many people I know who have seen this show haven't noticed that Walter played key role in her death. That it wasn't just that he didn't save her, but she told Jessie that you can't be on your back because of choking risk and they were sleeping in spooning fashion. Then Walter started shaking Jessie to wake him up and that's when girlfriend detached from Jessie and unfurled on her back. To most people this was just the scene of "overdose". To me also - I have noticed this detail only on second watch.
That episode started with Walt putting his newborn to bed, on her side with a rolled up blanket behind her back and saying it’s so she won’t roll on her back and choke on her vomit. Good foreshadowing.
Going to sleep and having a chance to not wake up because of drugs is noones fault but your own
From what i have seen only recently, Lex is what this world desperately needs. With Joe Rogan being so popular it's both refreshing and uplifting to know that there is another layer that has been shed in an effort to derive something truly meaningful.
Carl is a good guy and his ideas will save lots of lives.
Lex... Your podcasts are downright amazing. And this guest in particular was a homerun! To get to listen to actual experts on all sorts of topics is nothing short of miraculous. Thank you thank you thank you!! Keep it going!!
Thank god! We need more people like Dr. Hart to come out of the closest about their drug use. I just finished reading his book "Drug use for Grown-ups". I highly recommend it. We also need doctors to believe they're patients and to not refuse to prescribe medications like opiates and benzos. Everyone has their drug of choice and every responsible adult should have the freedom to choose how and when they alter their consciousness.
The sincere problem in approaching clinical trials of psychedelics is that the ingrained fear of them messes with the "environment" parameter of the experience.
That's true. People need to be educated and be able to have a honest conversation with a doctor. I think most people will realize their fear is unfounded if they can talk to a medical professional
Maybe if you're in a clinical setting you will have less fear. People will think "this is medicine, it's safe here there are doctors here to respond to any emergency."
I love the immediate clarification by Dr. Hart that the individual is so commonly overlooked and (somewhat) regardless of enviroment the output vector relative to the (given) drug is entirely dependent as a child class upon the parent that determines and defines the confined space within which the drug is effective. You can be lethargic and sleepy on adderall or modafinil, you can trip badly on substances that typically imply a positive stretch of time (cocaine, mdma, etc.), even alcohol at the wrong time or tenure can spell encouragement or disaster. Set and setting is everything 🙌
I already commented on this but I'm so happy & appreciative that you had Dr. Hart on💓🙏 Thank you.
We need Naval Ravikant on the podcast. Loads of topics for you two to discuss.
The CEO of AngelList?
@@jamescodiroli722 yes
I believe everything this man is saying, from experience.
my experiences so far have taught me to always stay calm no matter how crazy the situation gets and always choose Love over Evil. One Mind, One Body, One Spirit, One Heart, One Love.
Same here. Problem is it is very difficult for responsible experienced users to speak outloud about it and very easy for the minority of irresponsible ones to tell their story and get sympathy.
It truly is a horrible feeling when you try to talk to someone and no one is there to listen or even try to understand what it is that your going thru
I agree with the use of drugs legally. I love what Canada is trying to do to help their heavy drug users.
This is a very important subject to have conversation about. I'm glad you did this interview with somebody who is experienced compassionate and has the knowledge to help this debated subject.
This man, Carl Hart is a brave, honest and deeply, widely smart human!
I’m totally for drug decriminalization. Doctors are not supposed to be sales reps for pharmaceutical companies. They are supposed to be doctors.
Legalization. If I want to go buy a bottle 126 pills of Hydrocodone at the pharmacy I should be able to.
@@Dom213 Dod you actually watch the video?
Have you read ‘Chasing the Scream’ by Sevan Bomar?
@@Dom213 totally agree 👍 👌
When it comes to drugs we need less moralizing and more strategizing.
I’m pro drug but saying that the biggest concern for heroin is constipation and for cocaine is a bad night sleep is just ridiculous, good on you for pushing back on this point Lex, he totally dodged you on the reply. Both These molecules can present great dangers for the user and society, all the more reason to legalize, but let’s not pretend these molecules are not dangerous,highly addictive and quite toxic. I feel like Lex asked really good questions but Carl’s answers were always disappointing. Not sure he’s a good spokesman for the movement to legalize drugs/cognitive liberty/harm reduction.
Yes. Even legal meds are much more dangerous than they are said to be.
I actually agree with you, I think he avoids some of the more notorious dangers- cocaine is horrific for your cardiovascular system in high doses. This is a much bigger problem than sleep or eating on coke. Heroin I would say constipation *might* still be the biggest bc with legalization, ODs would happen way less. Heroin isnt actually toxic in the normal sense- no more toxic than morphine.
I agree 100 percent
I disagree. Clean morphine, which is found in nature by the way, actually has no negative effects on the body. If you use needles if course that has it's own issues. But constipation is very real. And they are addictive, though it's is being debated how much is that is the drug and how much is the person. But like he says, where is the evidence? And I am coming from a place of experience. I have damaged my body using heroin. It was impurities in the heroin that did it. If it were legal, that damage wouldn't need an issue for me.
Yes I disagree with you guys as well. After being an addict for years. My main problem with most of these drugs is the persecution from others.
The only exception is meth, I found that hard to control.
So let's start with the non addictive drugs. Then try low doses of morphine or opium and cocaine.
I say this before we go down the path of ultra pura substances and all this synthetic substance
great talk. we rarely talk about drugs like this. confusion and problems come from lack of information and perspective. highly valuable
As someone who has struggled with drug abuse disorder, this man has it figured out. AA is great. But it’s s kool-aide drinking contest. Being the star student only does so much…. We’re not all so different. Some of us use to feel less alone. Some of use to feel more alone. I don’t wanna keep overthinking life anymore. I just want to be happy. I want to feel things that aren’t the standard feeling that sobriety brings. Do the drugs don’t let the drugs do you.
In summary, you can use or abuse ANYTHING.
If you're in a good space, the substance will enhance yourself. And if not, it will not, or temporarily help.
exactly this!
Intake at a detox facility the demand right now is huge. People begging for help. I see repeat clients and can't deny the deterioration of mental and physical health due to drug use. Suicidal ideation. Hallucinations. Takes a while for the brain to heal from chronic drug use. Some of the information in the podcast is dangerous. Just one use of hard drugs charges the dopamine barometer. All for personal choice. I had to go down the rabbit hole to learn the hard way. It made me stronger because I have been able to recover. It has not been easy. I wouldn't take a redo, but I will be honest. Hard Drug use is a very dark path the take.
It's at high demand because Dr's stopped prescribing to chronic pain patients, deaths are at all time highs. Prohibition doesn't worn time to legalize drugs and save lives that way
What if you caged a diabetic and forced them to not use insulin anymore and than blamed the insulin for being the reason they suddenly start having health problems and mental distress instead of your tyrannical actions ....
Anyway to get Graham Hancock on here? That would be an incredible conversation.
Yesssss
The opening monologue by lex made the hairs on the back of back of my neck stand up. Outstanding , thought provoking and hit a personal nerve with me in a positive way.
This guy is my savior
This argument that drugs should be legalized might be the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. You have no idea how much drug addicts want more drugs. Having cocaine shops would break so many recovering addicts. This guy Carl hart does heroin, cocaine, and mdma. Like y’all don’t think that’s going to influence his opinion. If you don’t then you don’t know what addiction feels like
Bro, drugs (mainly opioids and synthetic opioids) kills 50ish thousand people a year in the US; and that number is double scary considering most people don't use opioids regularly. That is over twice the amount of murders per year in the US, over 3 times the number of gun homicides per year, 17 times the amount of people killed in 9/11. If it was ranked on the list of causes of deaths in the US, it would be around 8ish (but it is lumped into accidental deaths, which is 3rd). And again, most people don't even use opioids regularly. To suggest that the little coverage opioid deaths get in the media is fear mongering, or blown out of proportion is asinine.
PS: I'm generally for legalization of drugs; people should be free to do what they want with their bodies as long as they aren't hurting someone else. But I'm in no way blind to the fact that the opioid problem in the US is a big freakin problem.
He never says it’s not a problem, just that the problem isn’t really the drug itself, but all of the factors going into each persons consumption on the drugs, including possible contamination and factors contributing to addiction that lead to so many deaths
@@lukem21 he never said addiction isnt a problem. He literally spends most of his time helping addicts. But blaming that on a certain drug is silly. Like a million people kill themselves every year, you cant blame that on the rope or the gun.
@@SEAL7471 yes
@@lukem21 sorry meant to tag the other guy
what your not understanding about those deaths is 70% are fentanyl related and a majority of prescription opiods are people actively killing themselves. so essentially we have a accidental overdose problem and a suicide problem. with that being said millions of lives would be saved and it would drastically change the outcomes of peoples lives for the better if these substances were regulated.
Great job, Lex and Carl. Keep it going. Spread the news ✌️🙏🤙
This is the best single word answer I have found, so far, to what is the meaning of life:
GROWTH
I’d love to hear a podcast with Dr. Carl Hart and Dr. Anna Lembke