I've always found something entrancing about Indonesian music. It makes us aware music has many dimensions of harmony outside of the 12-tone temperament that has taken the world, it can achieve a different dimension of expression because it harmonises in a way western temperament does not. So in a way, as 12-tone becomes more dominant, we are actually constricting our musical imagination if we do not preserve these unique harmonies of other cultures
00:22 Gamelan tuning: Slendro & Pelog 00:44 Gamelan Tuning Systems - Slendro & Pelog 01:08 Gamelan tuning systems are evenly spaced within an octave. 01:31 Slendro scale used in Central Java for shadow puppetry and ancient ensembles 01:48 Gamelan tuning involves distinct sets of instruments for Slendro and Pelog scales 02:06 Gamelan tuning systems have two scales - Slendro & Pelog 02:30 Gamelan tuning systems use only five tones out of seven in each meter 02:48 Bali uses pitch numbers instead of solfege names for tuning systems Crafted by Merlin AI.
When I found Gamelan I never found it to sound out of tune. I have experience with microtonal music and I love jazz, so I'm used to outside the box stuff, but even then, there's plenty of microtonal or dissonant stuff that feels jarring. Gamelan always felt perfect to me. It doesn't sound dissonant, or more specially "out of tune" it sounds very colorful.
Untuk sederhananya bagi para pemula: Pelog terdiri dari nada: Do, mi, fa, sol, si. Selendro terdiri dari nada: Do, re, mi, sol, la. Silahkan mainkan piano, biola, atau gitar anda dan cukup fokus dengan tersebut.... Salam dari Indonesia.
when you illustrate the the key of C do you mean that the F sharp or the A sharp is not quit a sharp but a quarter tone rather than a half tone similar to the middle eastern quarter tone ?
number 1 is Gender from Middle Java (Jawa Barat) and Jogjakarta, number 2 is Saron from Bali and Sasak (Lombok), that's Instrument is clearly different, Gender is more mallow than Saron Bali
it's quite funny, i thought so at start but then it started to sound like a major with no 2 nor 6, starting at the third, (its weird it feels so precisely that) it's only me?
The Slendro scale sounded to me like a dorian mode of sorts; because it has the Root, Minor 3rd, Perfect 4th, Perfect fifth, A major 6th, and the octave And the Pelog is quite literally the Locrian mode. Root, minor second, minor third, perfect fourth, tritone (flattened five), minor 6, minor 7th and the octave. Of course its not the exact western tuning but you got to keep in mind that the only reason we have 12 keys is because we detuned each single semitone in order to be able to fit all different keys into one instrument (as opposed to having an instrument with 7 notes only restricted to one key).
Really? You'd have to "round" the pitches to the western system. That scale at 2:13 has some notes that are not remotely relatable to any western mode.
@@victotronics I mean, it's not the exact tuning of course. That scale was the one that sounds like the locrian mode to me, judging by ear and interval recognition. I don't believe that people perceive music or tones based on the mathematic equation of frequencies. I do believe that there is a physiological reason for why it so happens that most scales in this planet consist of 5-7 notes, rather than entirely cultural. Perception of pitch itself is entirely a construct of the brain, after all.
@@joninarebekka2966 Several issues. "juding by ear": that should be: "judging by western-trained ear". It took me a long time to hear the "quarter tones" in Arabic music as notes by themselves, and not abberations from western notes. "5-7 notes": that's an interesting question. Maybe it's a matter of how much the brain can handle? "construct of the brain, after all." Saying "after all" doesn't make it more true, which it is not. It's a combination of physics and phsiology. There is another video on Pelog/Slendro scales which argues that those scales come from the "inharmonic" overtones of the metallophones. So it's a combination of 1. physics generating overtones 2. our ears producing beats if you try to combine notes that give beats (3. our brains don't liking that) and therefore: music developing scales that go with the instruments. As long as you stick to strings and air columns you get western scales, but if you base your music on metallophones you get pelog/slendro.
@@victotronics I had missed this comment, sorry I did a research paper on this and looked at a lot of data surrounding this topic. Of course not saying that just because studies have been made, doesn't make them necessarily unbiased, but I had a lot of interest on data based on our musical perception in the brain and whether musical perception is inherent rather than just cultural. Sound in itself is a product of waves moving through the air, our ears pick up on these waves and translate them into sound. There is a popular question saying "If a tree falls in the forest, and no one can hear it fall, did it make a sound?" Of course it's a question up for debate, but as far as we know, sound itself may not exist in nature. It is a translation of waves moving through the air. Our mind constructs a vast of majority of what we perceive in order to make sense of it - a sort of predictive programming. Another source also said that pitch is entirely made up in our brains. Most scales throughout the entire world do consist of 5-7 notes as well, making it a universal phenomenon. The pentatonic scale, for example, can be found in basically all cultures - which doesn't come as a surprise since it is probably the most "consonant" scale, or consists of notes that can be found very quickly by overtones. This also suggests that we, as humans, have a natural preference to a certain structure of scales - and perception. One of my music tutors, a man who has specialised in Hindustani music, also mentioned this - of how most scales are constructed, and during the Hindustani course I had with him, he taught us Indian scales which may have different names than western scales and modes, but are essentially the same scale and mode, just with a different name. He made a case about this myth as well that Hindustani is so microtonal, it's basically just a different tuning system but still uses 5-7 note scales mostly. About your point with a western taught ear, I mean it's interesting if you have taught yourself arabic intervals with microtones and I believe that's something that could be practiced.. But I also think that if it was only true that I can perceive these intervals out of my western ear training - I don't really see why I would perceive these intervals at all as the ones I do, actually, but an interesting point. Anyway, this is a very interesting topic and conversation! Thank you for engaging and I'd love to hear more about your arabic quarter tone training as well.
They don't have "western counterparts". Most music you'd be familiar with divides the octave into 12, but these divide it into 5 and 7 respectively, so there are notes here that have no equivalent in 12-EDO (and vice versa).
Many languages have local dialects, and many languages don't have official (or universal) transliterations to English. Pelog is more common in English, Peloq may be a less common dialect, but in language, it's often the case where you have "more common" and "less common", not "right" and "wrong". Remember Libya's leader Khaddafi and how the running gag was that there were two dozen ways to spell his name? Khaddafi, Qadafi, Gaddafi? They were all correct because there's no official transliteration between Arabic and English. The Indian cities of Bombay and Calcutta became Mumbai and Kolkata when we started using more modern transliterations closer to the local languages. Same with Peking/Beijing when the official tranlsiteration for Chinese to English shifted from one tranlsiteration to another. Keep in mind "q" and "g" are related sounds. If someone said "guestion mark" in conversation, it would sound very nearly like "question mark", because that's how the morphology of "q" works in English.
As Javanese/Indonesian, Pelog is correct spelling and correct pronounciation more like Pelok, its rare to find Q in Indonesian words, G is common but if position at words in tails, sometimes its pronounciate more like K than G
You can't play both on the same instrument. Re-tuning blocks of wood and metal involves re-weighting them and is not a trivial process like tightening a drum head or shortening or lengthening a wind path in a wind instrument, or adjusting the tension like on a guitar or violin. The degree one could re-weight them without drastically altering their sound or making them unplayable is limited. Like any instrument, the degree to which you can tune it is limited - you can alter a guitar string a few notes, but try tightening an octave and you're going to break a string. With a gamelan, or a xylophone, your tuning is very limited, and is not something you take on on a whim - you'd not be altering a note, you'd just be making it sound like "clunk clunk clunk". For context, one of the tools you use to tune a wooden xylophone bar is a sander. I'll let you use your imagination as to why you don't want to re-tune a gamelan for recreational purposes.
A full Javanese gamelan has instruments in both tunings, whereas Balinese gamelan are generally in one tuning (pelog being more common today). I have to assume that the reason he switched gamelan was because the Javanese set is NOT full and only includes slendro instruments.
Yeah... 13457 is very strange to European-tradition musicians, putting 3 and 4 together at the same time is generally forbidden except as a passage note (because of the dissonant interval)... So they generally alternate between chords with the 3 like 135, 613, 357, and chords with the 4 like 461, 5724, 246, 724...
They're not "out of tune", they are perfectly in tune. They use a tuning that is not 12 tone equal temperament (12 tet), which is actually an approximation of just intonation, and is what most Western music is in today. And guess what, 12 tet would have been considered "out of tune" a couple hundred years ago by people who used just intonation and other temperaments.
![Balinese Gamelan: An Introduction [with Dr. Elizabeth Clendinning]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/GsPdTNGnr44/mqdefault.jpg)
I've always found something entrancing about Indonesian music. It makes us aware music has many dimensions of harmony outside of the 12-tone temperament that has taken the world, it can achieve a different dimension of expression because it harmonises in a way western temperament does not.
So in a way, as 12-tone becomes more dominant, we are actually constricting our musical imagination if we do not preserve these unique harmonies of other cultures
00:22 Gamelan tuning: Slendro & Pelog
00:44 Gamelan Tuning Systems - Slendro & Pelog
01:08 Gamelan tuning systems are evenly spaced within an octave.
01:31 Slendro scale used in Central Java for shadow puppetry and ancient ensembles
01:48 Gamelan tuning involves distinct sets of instruments for Slendro and Pelog scales
02:06 Gamelan tuning systems have two scales - Slendro & Pelog
02:30 Gamelan tuning systems use only five tones out of seven in each meter
02:48 Bali uses pitch numbers instead of solfege names for tuning systems
Crafted by Merlin AI.
When I found Gamelan I never found it to sound out of tune. I have experience with microtonal music and I love jazz, so I'm used to outside the box stuff, but even then, there's plenty of microtonal or dissonant stuff that feels jarring.
Gamelan always felt perfect to me. It doesn't sound dissonant, or more specially "out of tune" it sounds very colorful.
Gamelan Tuning has Slendo scale & Pelog scale:
1 (ji /do) - (slendro)
2 (ro /re) - (slendro)
3 (lu /mi) - (slendro)
4 (pat /fa) - (pelog)
5 (ma /to) - (slendro)
6 (nem /la) - (slendro)
7 (pi, tu /ti) - (pelog)
Thank you for this video! It is difficult to find information concerning Gamelan tuning with regards to western!
Untuk sederhananya bagi para pemula:
Pelog terdiri dari nada: Do, mi, fa, sol, si.
Selendro terdiri dari nada: Do, re, mi, sol, la.
Silahkan mainkan piano, biola, atau gitar anda dan cukup fokus dengan tersebut.... Salam dari Indonesia.
Maybe I'm just getting used to xenharmonic music, but neither one sounded "out of tune" to me in any negative way, they sounded quite consonant.
yes, and it gives a different kind of feel (vibes)
Who is here because of music class
Asta is cool Yo me lol
Me
ooh ~ me too
Eeyyy!!!!im here🤦♀️🤦♀️🤣🤣🤣
Me
when you illustrate the the key of C do you mean that the F sharp or the A sharp is not quit a sharp but a quarter tone rather than a half tone similar to the middle eastern quarter tone ?
number 1 is Gender from Middle Java (Jawa Barat) and Jogjakarta, number 2 is Saron from Bali and Sasak (Lombok), that's Instrument is clearly different, Gender is more mallow than Saron Bali
Pelog sounds remarkably like a Phrygian mode scale.
In D...
Do-Ra-Me-Sol-Le-Do :)
Tom Goldie
Just as the Slendro sounds much like a Western Pentatonic
Sounds in between Phrygian and Locrian because of the ambiguous 5th degree, though it does sound more phyrgian
it's quite funny, i thought so at start but then it started to sound like a major with no 2 nor 6, starting at the third, (its weird it feels so precisely that) it's only me?
This cleared a lot up for me. Thank you!
Short clear and interesting. Thank you !
Hello. You came to The Leigh Technology Academy today :)
The Slendro scale sounded to me like a dorian mode of sorts; because it has the Root, Minor 3rd, Perfect 4th, Perfect fifth, A major 6th, and the octave
And the Pelog is quite literally the Locrian mode. Root, minor second, minor third, perfect fourth, tritone (flattened five), minor 6, minor 7th and the octave.
Of course its not the exact western tuning but you got to keep in mind that the only reason we have 12 keys is because we detuned each single semitone in order to be able to fit all different keys into one instrument (as opposed to having an instrument with 7 notes only restricted to one key).
Really? You'd have to "round" the pitches to the western system. That scale at 2:13 has some notes that are not remotely relatable to any western mode.
@@victotronics I mean, it's not the exact tuning of course. That scale was the one that sounds like the locrian mode to me, judging by ear and interval recognition.
I don't believe that people perceive music or tones based on the mathematic equation of frequencies. I do believe that there is a physiological reason for why it so happens that most scales in this planet consist of 5-7 notes, rather than entirely cultural. Perception of pitch itself is entirely a construct of the brain, after all.
@@joninarebekka2966 Several issues. "juding by ear": that should be: "judging by western-trained ear". It took me a long time to hear the "quarter tones" in Arabic music as notes by themselves, and not abberations from western notes. "5-7 notes": that's an interesting question. Maybe it's a matter of how much the brain can handle? "construct of the brain, after all." Saying "after all" doesn't make it more true, which it is not. It's a combination of physics and phsiology. There is another video on Pelog/Slendro scales which argues that those scales come from the "inharmonic" overtones of the metallophones. So it's a combination of 1. physics generating overtones 2. our ears producing beats if you try to combine notes that give beats (3. our brains don't liking that) and therefore: music developing scales that go with the instruments. As long as you stick to strings and air columns you get western scales, but if you base your music on metallophones you get pelog/slendro.
@@victotronics I had missed this comment, sorry
I did a research paper on this and looked at a lot of data surrounding this topic. Of course not saying that just because studies have been made, doesn't make them necessarily unbiased, but I had a lot of interest on data based on our musical perception in the brain and whether musical perception is inherent rather than just cultural.
Sound in itself is a product of waves moving through the air, our ears pick up on these waves and translate them into sound. There is a popular question saying "If a tree falls in the forest, and no one can hear it fall, did it make a sound?" Of course it's a question up for debate, but as far as we know, sound itself may not exist in nature. It is a translation of waves moving through the air. Our mind constructs a vast of majority of what we perceive in order to make sense of it - a sort of predictive programming. Another source also said that pitch is entirely made up in our brains.
Most scales throughout the entire world do consist of 5-7 notes as well, making it a universal phenomenon. The pentatonic scale, for example, can be found in basically all cultures - which doesn't come as a surprise since it is probably the most "consonant" scale, or consists of notes that can be found very quickly by overtones. This also suggests that we, as humans, have a natural preference to a certain structure of scales - and perception. One of my music tutors, a man who has specialised in Hindustani music, also mentioned this - of how most scales are constructed, and during the Hindustani course I had with him, he taught us Indian scales which may have different names than western scales and modes, but are essentially the same scale and mode, just with a different name. He made a case about this myth as well that Hindustani is so microtonal, it's basically just a different tuning system but still uses 5-7 note scales mostly.
About your point with a western taught ear, I mean it's interesting if you have taught yourself arabic intervals with microtones and I believe that's something that could be practiced.. But I also think that if it was only true that I can perceive these intervals out of my western ear training - I don't really see why I would perceive these intervals at all as the ones I do, actually, but an interesting point.
Anyway, this is a very interesting topic and conversation! Thank you for engaging and I'd love to hear more about your arabic quarter tone training as well.
Gamelan sounds so good
awesome. thanks for sharing your knowledge with the world
so pelog scale in western tuning is Db-D-D#-G#-A-G#-D#-D-Db? it sounds somewhat micro tonal
0:51 = slendro
2:13 = pelog
nice video, Thanks/Terima kasih,
the pelong reminds me to the phrygian scala, or indian raag bhairawi. D Eb F G A Bb C d
Actually I theorize it comes from that indian raag, but don’t quote me on that
@@Ivaniael Interesting
What is the closest approximation on the western scale?
That's awesome, thanks for that!
Hey! Whats the song in the intro of this vid?
Two MAIN tuning systems, meaning there are more less important systems?
Thank you for posting!
Thank you! Very well explained :)
Great video, thank you!
what are the frequencies of each note??
Like ug kaila.mo nako hehe
Nice info bro
would you please give us the western counterparts of the notes of the scales?
They don't have "western counterparts". Most music you'd be familiar with divides the octave into 12, but these divide it into 5 and 7 respectively, so there are notes here that have no equivalent in 12-EDO (and vice versa).
Are the seven tones evenly spaced?
+Ester Samuels No they're not!
no. they're not even standarized. so one set from one gamelan tuner can sounds differently from another tuner
@@sastradana9222 is that purposeful or accidental
Thanks !
like it!!
Как научиться играть ритм на барабане Гамелан?
great video!!!!!!
hi fellow classmates
Interesting! Thanks a lot!
Who is here because of Anthony Storr’s book Music and the Mind?
Can someone tell me if it is *peloq* or *pelog* because my teacher says it's peloq😑
Many languages have local dialects, and many languages don't have official (or universal) transliterations to English. Pelog is more common in English, Peloq may be a less common dialect, but in language, it's often the case where you have "more common" and "less common", not "right" and "wrong". Remember Libya's leader Khaddafi and how the running gag was that there were two dozen ways to spell his name? Khaddafi, Qadafi, Gaddafi? They were all correct because there's no official transliteration between Arabic and English. The Indian cities of Bombay and Calcutta became Mumbai and Kolkata when we started using more modern transliterations closer to the local languages. Same with Peking/Beijing when the official tranlsiteration for Chinese to English shifted from one tranlsiteration to another.
Keep in mind "q" and "g" are related sounds. If someone said "guestion mark" in conversation, it would sound very nearly like "question mark", because that's how the morphology of "q" works in English.
Pelog is the accepted spelling among Javanese musicians. However, the 'g' is not pronounced like in English but is more of a glottal stop.
As Javanese/Indonesian, Pelog is correct spelling and correct pronounciation more like Pelok, its rare to find Q in Indonesian words, G is common but if position at words in tails, sometimes its pronounciate more like K than G
NG. gotta show pelog on the same Javanese gamelan, not switch to a completely different gamelan, and Balinese to boot.
You can't play both on the same instrument. Re-tuning blocks of wood and metal involves re-weighting them and is not a trivial process like tightening a drum head or shortening or lengthening a wind path in a wind instrument, or adjusting the tension like on a guitar or violin. The degree one could re-weight them without drastically altering their sound or making them unplayable is limited. Like any instrument, the degree to which you can tune it is limited - you can alter a guitar string a few notes, but try tightening an octave and you're going to break a string. With a gamelan, or a xylophone, your tuning is very limited, and is not something you take on on a whim - you'd not be altering a note, you'd just be making it sound like "clunk clunk clunk".
For context, one of the tools you use to tune a wooden xylophone bar is a sander. I'll let you use your imagination as to why you don't want to re-tune a gamelan for recreational purposes.
A full Javanese gamelan has instruments in both tunings, whereas Balinese gamelan are generally in one tuning (pelog being more common today). I have to assume that the reason he switched gamelan was because the Javanese set is NOT full and only includes slendro instruments.
Javanese gamelan is Ji ro lu Pat mo tu ji
I.m 11years old but I Cann played all intrument gamelan....
the traditional music from java indonesia..,,, I am from indonesia and i can play it..,, :D
Who is here because of a music class me ! God I'm on call rn
javanesse gamelan scale do mi fa sol si do (13457) not do re mi fa sol la si do (1234567)
Yeah... 13457 is very strange to European-tradition musicians, putting 3 and 4 together at the same time is generally forbidden except as a passage note (because of the dissonant interval)... So they generally alternate between chords with the 3 like 135, 613, 357, and chords with the 4 like 461, 5724, 246, 724...
boptillyouflop that right, where you come brader?
Mga filipino come out
:)
T😎P
Hello batch 25
hello
awts gege
hi classm8 hehe
whats up clc 25 HAHAHA
Wats up 8-4 hehehe
Me
no
lol
They do sound really out-of-tune...
They're not "out of tune", they are perfectly in tune. They use a tuning that is not 12 tone equal temperament (12 tet), which is actually an approximation of just intonation, and is what most Western music is in today. And guess what, 12 tet would have been considered "out of tune" a couple hundred years ago by people who used just intonation and other temperaments.